NBA Top 5 All-Time... (1 Viewer)

[fantasycurse42]

In the mood to debate hoops today... Top 5 best ever, who you got? If it doesn't start with Darko Milicic, I'm not interested.

1. MJ

2. Russell

3. Bird

4. Magic

5. Shaq

I think Duncan is starting to sniff this list and I can see arguments putting him around 5, but I still like Shaq as he was absolutely dominant and unstoppable in his prime.

 

[Todem]

Hard to argue that list.

 

[B Maverick]

Shaq's size made him dominant. Duncan is a better player. Would take Duncan over Shaq.

I am ok with your top 4 but you would have to consider Wilt, Kareen, Duncan, West, Robertson and a few other older guys at 5 before Shaq IMO.

 

[Popinski]

It's ridiculous to not have KAJ in the top 5. He is my #2, and is not that far behind Jordan.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Shaq's size made him dominant. Duncan is a better player. Would take Duncan over Shaq.

I am ok with your top 4 but you would have to consider Wilt, Kareen, Duncan, West, Robertson and a few other older guys at 5 before Shaq IMO.

The size is a trait that can't be taught... He was born with that gift and used at exactly as he should. He couldn't be stopped in the paint. A lot of people (obviously TD included) have more skills, but Shaq was pure dominance. I'm sure others would put Shaq further down, but for me he is an all-time great.

 

[joffer]

MJ

Lebron

Magic

Bird

Can't decide

 

[Chemical X]

sorry, but wilt chamberlain, regardless of championships, is top 3 on any list.

 

[B Maverick]

Shaq's size made him dominant. Duncan is a better player. Would take Duncan over Shaq.

I am ok with your top 4 but you would have to consider Wilt, Kareen, Duncan, West, Robertson and a few other older guys at 5 before Shaq IMO.

The size is a trait that can't be taught... He was born with that gift and used at exactly as he should. He couldn't be stopped in the paint. A lot of people (obviously TD included) have more skills, but Shaq was pure dominance. I'm sure others would put Shaq further down, but for me he is an all-time great.

True, it cant be taught. But he was allowed to use it in ways others werent. He could run over people that smaller players had to go around. That and his abysmal FTs is what made hack a shaq a way of life for opponents. To me he isnt even a top 5 center all time.

 

[Abraham]

We've done many of these but I'm changing my view on #5.

magic

Michael

Bird

Russell

Kareem

The difference between Kareem and the #50 scorer is greater than the difference between #50 and a person who has never played in the NBA. That is nuts.

 

[Gr00vus]

sorry, but wilt chamberlain, regardless of championships, is top 3 on any list.

I can't understand how someone could rank Russell ahead of Chamberlain.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Shaq's size made him dominant. Duncan is a better player. Would take Duncan over Shaq.

I am ok with your top 4 but you would have to consider Wilt, Kareen, Duncan, West, Robertson and a few other older guys at 5 before Shaq IMO.

The size is a trait that can't be taught... He was born with that gift and used at exactly as he should. He couldn't be stopped in the paint. A lot of people (obviously TD included) have more skills, but Shaq was pure dominance. I'm sure others would put Shaq further down, but for me he is an all-time great.

True, it cant be taught. But he was allowed to use it in ways others werent. He could run over people that smaller players had to go around. That and his abysmal FTs is what made hack a shaq a way of life for opponents. To me he isnt even a top 5 center all time.

Oh come on!

 

[Gr00vus]

It's ridiculous to not have KAJ in the top 5. He is my #2, and is not that far behind Jordan.

I'd have him at 3rd, behind Wilt and Jordan.

 

[JMon348]

Not in order

Tier 1:

Bill Russell

Kareem Abdul Jabbar

Magic Johnson

Michael Jordan

Kobe Bryant

Tim Duncan

Tier 2:

Wilt Chamberlain

Larry Bird

Hakeem Olajuwon

Shaquille O'Neal

Lebron James

Tier 3:

Oscar Robertson

Jerry West

 

[Gawain]

8ebok24, on 16 Jun 2014 - 2:15 PM, said:Not in order

Tier 1:

Bill Russell

Kareem Abdul Jabbar

Magic Johnson

Michael Jordan

Kobe Bryant

Tim Duncan

Troll post is trolly

 

[Popinski]

Shaq's size made him dominant. Duncan is a better player. Would take Duncan over Shaq.

I am ok with your top 4 but you would have to consider Wilt, Kareen, Duncan, West, Robertson and a few other older guys at 5 before Shaq IMO.

The size is a trait that can't be taught... He was born with that gift and used at exactly as he should. He couldn't be stopped in the paint. A lot of people (obviously TD included) have more skills, but Shaq was pure dominance. I'm sure others would put Shaq further down, but for me he is an all-time great.

Shaq at his peak was as good as any player in NBA history. The problem is, his peak (when he was motivated, in top physical shape, and playing excellent defense) didn't last very long, and that rightfully causes him to fall in such lists. He's obviously top 10, but just looking at his contemporaries, I can't put him ahead of Duncan.

 

[Todem]

My top 5 would be

Jordan

Magic

Lebron

Duncan

Kareem

Nasty nasty lineup right there.

Shaq

Wilt

Russell

Kobe

Bird

Would round out my top ten.

 

[B Maverick]

sorry, but wilt chamberlain, regardless of championships, is top 3 on any list.

I can't understand how someone could rank Russell ahead of Chamberlain.

Didnt Russell dominate Wilt every time they met?

 

[Don Quixote]

sorry, but wilt chamberlain, regardless of championships, is top 3 on any list.

I can't understand how someone could rank Russell ahead of Chamberlain.

Didnt Russell dominate Wilt every time they met?

The Celtics dominated Wilt's teams, but I don't think Russell dominated Wilt.

 

[B Maverick]

Shaq's size made him dominant. Duncan is a better player. Would take Duncan over Shaq.

I am ok with your top 4 but you would have to consider Wilt, Kareen, Duncan, West, Robertson and a few other older guys at 5 before Shaq IMO.

The size is a trait that can't be taught... He was born with that gift and used at exactly as he should. He couldn't be stopped in the paint. A lot of people (obviously TD included) have more skills, but Shaq was pure dominance. I'm sure others would put Shaq further down, but for me he is an all-time great.

True, it cant be taught. But he was allowed to use it in ways others werent. He could run over people that smaller players had to go around. That and his abysmal FTs is what made hack a shaq a way of life for opponents. To me he isnt even a top 5 center all time.

Oh come on!

I am probably down on Shaq more then others. I wouldnt argue others having him in their top 5 centers. And I would be open to arguments for him at #5 in the center rankings. But at least I would take these 4 first.

Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem. Then we could debate Shaq, Moses Malone, etc...

 

[BroadwayG]

Bob Lanier

 

[Mene]

Shaq's size made him dominant. Duncan is a better player. Would take Duncan over Shaq.

I am ok with your top 4 but you would have to consider Wilt, Kareen, Duncan, West, Robertson and a few other older guys at 5 before Shaq IMO.

The size is a trait that can't be taught... He was born with that gift and used at exactly as he should. He couldn't be stopped in the paint. A lot of people (obviously TD included) have more skills, but Shaq was pure dominance. I'm sure others would put Shaq further down, but for me he is an all-time great.

True, it cant be taught. But he was allowed to use it in ways others werent. He could run over people that smaller players had to go around. That and his abysmal FTs is what made hack a shaq a way of life for opponents. To me he isnt even a top 5 center all time.

Oh come on!

Honestly, you could argue that Kareem, Wilt, Russell, and Hakeem were all better than Shaq. My opinion of course. Hakeem was unreal, and his numbers are superior to Shaq in everything but ppg.

Edit to add my top 5

MJ

Magic

Kareem

Bird

I hate it, but Lebron is going to be here, if not already.

Of course, I didn't watch BBall prior to the 80's, so I can't speak to the guys prior other than what I've read.

 

[SFBayDuck]

sorry, but wilt chamberlain, regardless of championships, is top 3 on any list.

I can't understand how someone could rank Russell ahead of Chamberlain.

Didnt Russell dominate Wilt every time they met?

This is such a misconception, based on the fact that Russell's Celtics obviously won just about every championship during Wilt's career - because they had a better, deeper team. The best player doesn't always win the series (despite what Bill Simmons always says). Just ask LeBron.

They played against each other 142 times (that is amazing in and of itself). In games against each other:

Wilt: 28.7 ppg / 28.7 rpg

Russell: 14.5 ppg / 23.7 rpg

 

[fantasycurse42]

Shaq's size made him dominant. Duncan is a better player. Would take Duncan over Shaq.

I am ok with your top 4 but you would have to consider Wilt, Kareen, Duncan, West, Robertson and a few other older guys at 5 before Shaq IMO.

The size is a trait that can't be taught... He was born with that gift and used at exactly as he should. He couldn't be stopped in the paint. A lot of people (obviously TD included) have more skills, but Shaq was pure dominance. I'm sure others would put Shaq further down, but for me he is an all-time great.

True, it cant be taught. But he was allowed to use it in ways others werent. He could run over people that smaller players had to go around. That and his abysmal FTs is what made hack a shaq a way of life for opponents. To me he isnt even a top 5 center all time.

Oh come on!

I am probably down on Shaq more then others. I wouldnt argue others having him in their top 5 centers. And I would be open to arguments for him at #5 in the center rankings. But at least I would take these 4 first.

Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem. Then we could debate Shaq, Moses Malone, etc...

Moses Malone and Shaq are not to be debated in the same conversation.

 

[sn0mm1s]

1) Jordan

The rest:

Magic, Bird, Duncan, Kareem

Shaq's size made him dominant. Duncan is a better player. Would take Duncan over Shaq.

I am ok with your top 4 but you would have to consider Wilt, Kareen, Duncan, West, Robertson and a few other older guys at 5 before Shaq IMO.

The size is a trait that can't be taught... He was born with that gift and used at exactly as he should. He couldn't be stopped in the paint. A lot of people (obviously TD included) have more skills, but Shaq was pure dominance. I'm sure others would put Shaq further down, but for me he is an all-time great.

True, it cant be taught. But he was allowed to use it in ways others werent. He could run over people that smaller players had to go around. That and his abysmal FTs is what made hack a shaq a way of life for opponents. To me he isnt even a top 5 center all time.

Wilt was worse at FTs than Shaq.

 

[Gr00vus]

sorry, but wilt chamberlain, regardless of championships, is top 3 on any list.

I can't understand how someone could rank Russell ahead of Chamberlain.

Didnt Russell dominate Wilt every time they met?

If we're talking player to player, you've got it backwards:

According to this guy:

Wilt vs. Bill Russell:

They played 142 games against each other.

Wilt: 28.7 ppg / 28.7 rpg

Russell: 14.5 ppg / 23.7 rpg

For his career Wilt averaged 30.1 ppg / 22.9 rpg

 

[B Maverick]

Fair enough, didnt realize Wilt played that well vs Russell.

still would take both over Shaq....

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

1. Michael Jordan

2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

3. Wilt Chamberlain

4. Bill Russell

5. Tim Duncan

Yeah, I said it. Duncan's career is greater than Magic's or Bird's. Sustained greatness over a longer period of time in a more difficult era to stay near the top.

 

[Sweet J]

Fair enough, didnt realize Wilt played that well vs Russell.

Those stats were from all of their matchups.

Did Wilt play that well against Russell in the NBA Finals meetings that they had?

 

[fantasycurse42]

1. Michael Jordan

2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

3. Wilt Chamberlain

4. Bill Russell

5. Tim Duncan

Yeah, I said it. Duncan's career is greater than Magic's or Bird's. Sustained greatness over a longer period of time in a more difficult era to stay near the top.

I can't take a top 5 list that doesn't have at least one of the two (Bird or Magic) seriously. It feels like being contrarian for the purpose of being contrarian.

 

[LarryAllen'sJockstrap]

sorry, but wilt chamberlain, regardless of championships, is top 3 on any list.

I can't understand how someone could rank Russell ahead of Chamberlain.

Didnt Russell dominate Wilt every time they met?

If we're talking player to player, you've got it backwards:

According to this guy:

Wilt vs. Bill Russell:

They played 142 games against each other.

Wilt: 28.7 ppg / 28.7 rpg

Russell: 14.5 ppg / 23.7 rpg

For his career Wilt averaged 30.1 ppg / 22.9 rpg

I think that Russell and Wilt are most likely both top-5 all time players, but Wilt should be #1 on any list. For his career, 30 PPG, 23RPG and 4.4 APG.

Guys like Shaq, Malone, Duncan & Hakeem were all greats, but none of them dreamed of sniffing 30/20 in a season, let alone for a full career. Russell was a 15 PPG, 20+ RPG guy, but that's half the scoring Wilt put up on an average night.

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

1. Michael Jordan

2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

3. Wilt Chamberlain

4. Bill Russell

5. Tim Duncan

Yeah, I said it. Duncan's career is greater than Magic's or Bird's. Sustained greatness over a longer period of time in a more difficult era to stay near the top.

I can't take a top 5 list that doesn't have at least one of the two (Bird or Magic) seriously. It feels like being contrarian for the purpose of being contrarian.

I can't take a top 5 list that has Russell but doesn't have Kareem or Wilt seriously. It shows a huge knowledge gap in the history of the game. If you want to leave the three big pioneers off because you didn't see them play and/or don't think much of the era they played in, fine. But one without the other two is ridiculous.

Duncan is still an elite player in his late 30s, is probably the best defensive player of the last 30 years, and was also a top scorer in his prime. He was an integral player of title teams 15 years apart. Both Bird and Magic were out of the league is their early 30s, were limited on defense, and played in an era where continuity was a lot easier to achieve.

Magic never won a title without Kareem.

Bird never won a title without McHale and Parish.

Duncan endured two roster transformations, a changeover in team playing style, and major rule changes while still winning titles.

 

[Raider Nation]

I think FC works for ESPN.

Vanilla or Chocolate soft-serve.... whatcha got?

 

[fantasycurse42]

1. Michael Jordan

2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

3. Wilt Chamberlain

4. Bill Russell

5. Tim Duncan

Yeah, I said it. Duncan's career is greater than Magic's or Bird's. Sustained greatness over a longer period of time in a more difficult era to stay near the top.

I can't take a top 5 list that doesn't have at least one of the two (Bird or Magic) seriously. It feels like being contrarian for the purpose of being contrarian.

Magic never won a title without Kareem.Bird never won a title without McHale and Parish.

Duncan endured two roster transformations, a changeover in team playing style, and major rule changes while still winning titles.

Jordan never won a title without Pippen, doesn't change the fact that he is the GOAT.

 

[Raider Nation]

1. Michael Jordan

2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

3. Wilt Chamberlain

4. Bill Russell

5. Tim Duncan

Yeah, I said it. Duncan's career is greater than Magic's or Bird's. Sustained greatness over a longer period of time in a more difficult era to stay near the top.

I can't take a top 5 list that doesn't have at least one of the two (Bird or Magic) seriously. It feels like being contrarian for the purpose of being contrarian.

Why not? Neither of them are Top-5 players.

I'd take Ferris's list and remove Duncan and put in Oscar and take my chances.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Jordan

Bird

Kareem

Magic

Wilt

Russell and Duncan just missed out. LeBron can still get there, but needs a few more years.

 

[Popinski]

1. Jordan

2. Abdul-Jabbar

3. Chamberlain

4. Russell

5. Duncan

6. Magic

7. Shaq

8. LeBron

9. Bird

10. Olajuwon

As much as I loved watching Bird play, it's hard to argue that LeBron hasn't surpassed him, even if he were to retire today.

 

[Raider Nation]

It's like averaging a triple-double for an entire season is no big deal.

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

1. Michael Jordan

2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

3. Wilt Chamberlain

4. Bill Russell

5. Tim Duncan

Yeah, I said it. Duncan's career is greater than Magic's or Bird's. Sustained greatness over a longer period of time in a more difficult era to stay near the top.

I can't take a top 5 list that doesn't have at least one of the two (Bird or Magic) seriously. It feels like being contrarian for the purpose of being contrarian.

Magic never won a title without Kareem.Bird never won a title without McHale and Parish.

Duncan endured two roster transformations, a changeover in team playing style, and major rule changes while still winning titles.

Jordan never won a title without Pippen, doesn't change the fact that he is the GOAT.

One criterium out of many, Level 1. One criterium of many.Would you consider Magic and Bird to be Jordan's equals as defensive players? Superior? How about Duncan versus Magic or Bird on the defensive end?

 

[Koya]

Top four are not for debate in my mind:

MJ

Russell

Wilt

Kareem

Then one of:

Magic (would get my nod right now)

Bird

Big O

Lebron

These guys could arguably be in with the above:

Duncan

West

Hakeem

Shaq

To round out my top 15:

Kobe

Cousy

Baylor

May have missed someone along the way.

 

[Timmay]

No consideration for Robert Horry?

 

[fantasycurse42]

I think FC works for ESPN.

Vanilla or Chocolate soft-serve.... whatcha got?

Too much free time at work

BTW chocolate and it isn't even close.

1. Michael Jordan

2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

3. Wilt Chamberlain

4. Bill Russell

5. Tim Duncan

Yeah, I said it. Duncan's career is greater than Magic's or Bird's. Sustained greatness over a longer period of time in a more difficult era to stay near the top.

I can't take a top 5 list that doesn't have at least one of the two (Bird or Magic) seriously. It feels like being contrarian for the purpose of being contrarian.

Why not? Neither of them are Top-5 players.

I'd take Ferris's list and remove Duncan and put in Oscar and take my chances.

My feelings are that Magic was the most complete offensive player to ever step foot on the floor...

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

No consideration for Robert Horry?

Sam Jones has a ring for every finger on both hands. Surprised no one has brought him up yet, either.

 

[Tau837]

Tier 1: Jordan

Tier 2: Kareem, Wilt, Russell

Tier 3: Duncan, Robertson, Lebron, Magic, Bird

Tier 4: Hakeem, West, Shaq

That's the top 12, with each tier in the order in which I rank the players.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Russell

Sam Jones

Tom Heinson

KC Jones

Tom Sanders

John Havlicek

Gotta win championships to be the best.

 

[B Maverick]

I am curious about your age groups relative to your rankings. What era did you grow up in and does that influence your rankings?

Are those ranking MJ so high old enough to watch Wilt vs Russell or even Bird v Magic?

Do you rank Lebron so high because he is the NBA you know?

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

It's like averaging a triple-double for an entire season is no big deal.

Strangely, it wasn't that big a deal when it happened. Detailed box scores were a couple decades away from hitting daily newspapers. So Wilt averaging 50 (50!) points per game was a bigger deal the same season Oscar averaged a triple-double. And the league MVP that year wasn't Oscar or Wilt; it was Russell for being the best player on the team with the best regular-season record.

BTW, Oscar's career stats after his first five seasons are triple/double averages. That blows my mind even more than the triple-double season.

 

[Koya]

I am curious about your age groups relative to your rankings. What era did you grow up in and does that influence your rankings?

Are those ranking MJ so high old enough to watch Wilt vs Russell or even Bird v Magic?

Do you rank Lebron so high because he is the NBA you know?

Started watching in the early 80's, became a pretty big hoops fan mid to late 80s... So I was the Jordan generation although I saw what happened in the few years prior.

The only guys that, IMO are in the running for greatest ever other than MJ are the all time great big men, the big three at least. And if I were starting a team today, I'd probably go with any of them over MJ.

 

[Gawain]

I don't think Kobe makes a top-5 Lakers list.

 

[Chaka]

No consideration for Robert Horry?

Russell is the original Robert Horry.

 

[Chaka]

Kidding aside Horry should be strongly considered for the top 5 list of players you want taking a game winning shot.