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New coaches off to a terrible start (1 Viewer)

K

kncks12

Footballguy
I thought Kiffen was decent in his debut and is getting more out of RAiders than Shell ever did. However, Cameron, Whisenhunt, and Turner all did not turn in good performances. Yes, Turner won, but the offense took a step back, the same as every team taht Turner has ever taken over. The guy is supposed to be an offensive genious, but how the heck do offenses become worse when he leads the team. I don't get it.

Cam Cameron is the worst coach ever. He is Steve Mooch. The guy had no rhythm to his play calling, and actually was out thinking himself on occasions. I mean he scored on the fourth and goal, but the offensive set was stupid. He is lucky that Trent Green improvised and got the score, but I can't believe that he would even call that play let alone go for it. He got lucky there. The way he handles his backs is terrible! Chatman was awful, Brown showed spurts but never got into rhythm because the offensive coordinator did not let him. It is CLEAR that Brown is much better than Chatman, so get him in the game. Brown showed soft hands, as did Chatman, but Chatman goes down with first contact. Brown showed fire and often go frustrated, Cam needs to realize that and be creative or this team is in trouble. I thought Trent threw the ball real well and held the team together. Chambers looked fast and good. Trent missed him one time where Chambers could have scored from about 50 out and really padded the stats. Cam Cameron is clearly holding this team back. Let loose Cam.

Whisenhunt really was a dud in his debut. He has the BEST wide receiver tandom in the league and he does not use them. I mean the play calling from Grimm was AWFUL. Edge looked good, but that does not mean you should just keep it close. He never went for the kill. When they went up 10-7 they had the chance to open it up, but no, just run...run...run. If that is the team you want, then trade Boldin and Fitz and bring in role player wide outs because Arizona is just wasting money. That game was sooooooo boring, and it was because Arizona was trying to be something they weren't. They were trying to be the Chicago Bears without the Chicago Bears D. If they play an offense that scores, they aren't going to be prepared to beat a team like that. Pathetic coaching

 
People always tend to underestimate the effect on a team of transition into a new system or to a new coaching staff.

The only new guy whose "unit" (i.e. offense or defense) looked good was Tomlin, but that had more to do with his opponent (the Browns) than anything he did. As for the rest:

Turner: Chargers offense stifled by the Bears defense;

Phillips: Cowboys defense lit up by Eli;

Whisenhunt: Cards offense struggled all night long against a lackluster 49'ers defense;

Petrino: Falcons offense was a no-show against Minny;

Cameron: Dolphins offense stifled by Redskins defense.

There's simply too much for a new coach to shake out in terms of personnel and schemes for it all to be clicking come week 1, and that's assuming that he's got enough talent to make it work his first year to begin with which often is not the case.

 
kncks12 said:
I thought Kiffen was decent in his debut and is getting more out of RAiders than Shell ever did. However, Cameron, Whisenhunt, and Turner all did not turn in good performances. Yes, Turner won, but the offense took a step back, the same as every team taht Turner has ever taken over. The guy is supposed to be an offensive genious, but how the heck do offenses become worse when he leads the team. I don't get it. Cam Cameron is the worst coach ever. He is Steve Mooch. The guy had no rhythm to his play calling, and actually was out thinking himself on occasions. I mean he scored on the fourth and goal, but the offensive set was stupid. He is lucky that Trent Green improvised and got the score, but I can't believe that he would even call that play let alone go for it. He got lucky there. The way he handles his backs is terrible! Chatman was awful, Brown showed spurts but never got into rhythm because the offensive coordinator did not let him. It is CLEAR that Brown is much better than Chatman, so get him in the game. Brown showed soft hands, as did Chatman, but Chatman goes down with first contact. Brown showed fire and often go frustrated, Cam needs to realize that and be creative or this team is in trouble. I thought Trent threw the ball real well and held the team together. Chambers looked fast and good. Trent missed him one time where Chambers could have scored from about 50 out and really padded the stats. Cam Cameron is clearly holding this team back. Let loose Cam.Whisenhunt really was a dud in his debut. He has the BEST wide receiver tandom in the league and he does not use them. I mean the play calling from Grimm was AWFUL. Edge looked good, but that does not mean you should just keep it close. He never went for the kill. When they went up 10-7 they had the chance to open it up, but no, just run...run...run. If that is the team you want, then trade Boldin and Fitz and bring in role player wide outs because Arizona is just wasting money. That game was sooooooo boring, and it was because Arizona was trying to be something they weren't. They were trying to be the Chicago Bears without the Chicago Bears D. If they play an offense that scores, they aren't going to be prepared to beat a team like that. Pathetic coaching
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I am betting at least 15 of the teams Chicago plays have their offense take 'a step back' the week they face the Bears.
 
Whisenhunt has to use his strengths, typical new coach trying to do it his way instead of using the talent available.

Fitz, Boldin and Bryant..they seemed very predictable last night try to run every first down.

 
Anthony Borbely said:
The new coaches who took over good teams looked good, and the ones who took over bad teams looked bad.
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:thumbup: That's what it boils down to. I know it's fashionable to kill Turner but I don't know what he did wrong. He was in a defensive battle with the best defense in the league and they kept patiently grinding it them until they finally broke through. It was a good playcall on LT's pass to use the Bears aggressiveness against them.The defense stiffled Benson/Grossman all day and came up with some big turnovers. The ref's missed an obvious offsides at the 1 yard line the Chargers which cost them 7 points, they got a 30 yard field goal that was blocked to cost them 3 pts and they still won by 11. Were people seriously thinking the Chargers were going to win the game by 20+?
 
Da Guru said:
Whisenhunt has to use his strengths, typical new coach trying to do it his way instead of using the talent available.

Fitz, Boldin and Bryant..they seemed very predictable last night try to run every first down.
Click to expand...
Or maybe they were trying to make it a point to establish this team as a good running team, which IMHO they did. They're not a championship team this year, so I think they're taking a far-sighted approach and building this team for next year and beyond.
 
I'm no Norv Turner apologist, but I think he and his new staff looked really good against the Bears. That Bears defense is stellar, and they overcommitted to keeping LT in check. Turner and Shelmon stayed committed, and used the overpursuit of Tomlinson to perfect advantage on that LT to Gates TD pass. Plus, Turner may be an offensive guy, but the Chargers defensive staff was gutted and yet his new lieutenants had that defense looking phenomenal.

I'm loathe to judge any of these guys, good or bad, on one week, but I can't see that Turner could've done much more.

 
Shooter McGavin said:
Turner's team won 14-3 against one of last year's Super Bowl teams. I think that's the only thing that matters to him.
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Would've been 21-3 if not for a case of HUBS (Head Up Butt Syndrome) from the refs at the goalline. Getting stuffed offensively against a dominant defensive team that gameplanned to take your All-God player out of the game isn't too terrible and they made the adjustments at halftime to use that against the Bears. I thought it was a good debut, if a little slow in figuring out how to best get yardage on the Bears. He, unlike some of the other new coaches, gave the ball to his best player to win the game and in a tough matchup pulled out a nice win.
 
Jason Wood said:
I'm no Norv Turner apologist, but I think he and his new staff looked really good against the Bears. That Bears defense is stellar, and they overcommitted to keeping LT in check. Turner and Shelmon stayed committed, and used the overpursuit of Tomlinson to perfect advantage on that LT to Gates TD pass. Plus, Turner may be an offensive guy, but the Chargers defensive staff was gutted and yet his new lieutenants had that defense looking phenomenal.I'm loathe to judge any of these guys, good or bad, on one week, but I can't see that Turner could've done much more.
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:goodposting: I was at the game and the Chargers were trying everything they could to gain yards on the Bears. Nothing was working and credit for that goes to the Bears. Also, I didn't see Turner drop one pass on Sunday. I DID see a number of Charger receivers drop passes and Rivers miss a few guys pretty baddly.
 
I could be a Cameron apologist and I didn't see the game, but the guy you said was out-thinking himself and had no rhythm to his play calling is the same guy that was the OC for a team that went 14-2 last year. It wasn't Marty that was calling plays for the Bolts last year, it was Cam. The talent level on that team obviously had something to do with their record, but you don't go 14-2 with the only two (three) losses by 3 points by out-thinking yourself and having no rhythm.

It's a new system on a piecemeal team. And they lost on a coin toss to a team with a HOF coach, a gazillion dollars in free agents thrown at it with an offensive system that's been on place for a year. There are a couple of candidates I can think of for the 'worst coach ever' title, but it's a little soon to bestow that honor on Cameron.

 
Jason Wood said:
I'm no Norv Turner apologist, but I think he and his new staff looked really good against the Bears. That Bears defense is stellar, and they overcommitted to keeping LT in check. Turner and Shelmon stayed committed, and used the overpursuit of Tomlinson to perfect advantage on that LT to Gates TD pass. Plus, Turner may be an offensive guy, but the Chargers defensive staff was gutted and yet his new lieutenants had that defense looking phenomenal.I'm loathe to judge any of these guys, good or bad, on one week, but I can't see that Turner could've done much more.
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:popcorn: I was really worried about the Chargers D. Wade Philips is a great coach and losing him was going to hurt. Granted, it was the Bears O, but I liked what I saw. The offense will be better with Turner. He is much more adaptable than Cameron and obviously Marty. He mixed LT in the passing game, exploited the Gates mismatch, and took advatantage of the Bears' aggressiveness late in the game. The weaknesses were still the defensive backfield and the WRs, but that's always been the case. It's only one game, but he stood up pretty well.
 
kncks12 said:
I thought Kiffen was decent in his debut and is getting more out of RAiders than Shell ever did. However, Cameron, Whisenhunt, and Turner all did not turn in good performances. Yes, Turner won, but the offense took a step back, the same as every team taht Turner has ever taken over. The guy is supposed to be an offensive genious, but how the heck do offenses become worse when he leads the team. I don't get it.

Cam Cameron is the worst coach ever. He is Steve Mooch. The guy had no rhythm to his play calling, and actually was out thinking himself on occasions. I mean he scored on the fourth and goal, but the offensive set was stupid. He is lucky that Trent Green improvised and got the score, but I can't believe that he would even call that play let alone go for it. He got lucky there. The way he handles his backs is terrible! Chatman was awful, Brown showed spurts but never got into rhythm because the offensive coordinator did not let him. It is CLEAR that Brown is much better than Chatman, so get him in the game. Brown showed soft hands, as did Chatman, but Chatman goes down with first contact. Brown showed fire and often go frustrated, Cam needs to realize that and be creative or this team is in trouble. I thought Trent threw the ball real well and held the team together. Chambers looked fast and good. Trent missed him one time where Chambers could have scored from about 50 out and really padded the stats. Cam Cameron is clearly holding this team back. Let loose Cam.

Whisenhunt really was a dud in his debut. He has the BEST wide receiver tandom in the league and he does not use them. I mean the play calling from Grimm was AWFUL. Edge looked good, but that does not mean you should just keep it close. He never went for the kill. When they went up 10-7 they had the chance to open it up, but no, just run...run...run. If that is the team you want, then trade Boldin and Fitz and bring in role player wide outs because Arizona is just wasting money. That game was sooooooo boring, and it was because Arizona was trying to be something they weren't. They were trying to be the Chicago Bears without the Chicago Bears D. If they play an offense that scores, they aren't going to be prepared to beat a team like that. Pathetic coaching
Click to expand...
Harrison and Wayne might disagree there. Whisenhunt also doesn't have the best (or a great) quarterback and has an established running back. He's on the road and has a lead unitl the last seconds of the game-- and loses partially because the defender doesn't slide to pick up the fumble in the end zone (tough play, so I'm not blaming the defense, but that would have ended the game).I'm not saying he looked great, but it's the Cardinals and he had them in the lead at the end of a division road game. I'd call the game boring, but I wouldn't call him a dud. Yet.

 
Shooter McGavin said:
Turner's team won 14-3 against one of last year's Super Bowl teams. I think that's the only thing that matters to him.
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:confused: Bears have a great D and a shaky O. If you want to win, you hope to muster just enough on offense and capitalize on their offensive miscues. Sounds like that's what happened. Nothing to be ashamed of in that win. The LT/Bears commercial situation probably got them riled up, too. Chicago is good, after all.Edited to add: I meant good on defense.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Neil Beaufort Zod said:
kncks12 said:
I thought Kiffen was decent in his debut and is getting more out of RAiders than Shell ever did. However, Cameron, Whisenhunt, and Turner all did not turn in good performances. Yes, Turner won, but the offense took a step back, the same as every team taht Turner has ever taken over. The guy is supposed to be an offensive genious, but how the heck do offenses become worse when he leads the team. I don't get it.

Cam Cameron is the worst coach ever. He is Steve Mooch. The guy had no rhythm to his play calling, and actually was out thinking himself on occasions. I mean he scored on the fourth and goal, but the offensive set was stupid. He is lucky that Trent Green improvised and got the score, but I can't believe that he would even call that play let alone go for it. He got lucky there. The way he handles his backs is terrible! Chatman was awful, Brown showed spurts but never got into rhythm because the offensive coordinator did not let him. It is CLEAR that Brown is much better than Chatman, so get him in the game. Brown showed soft hands, as did Chatman, but Chatman goes down with first contact. Brown showed fire and often go frustrated, Cam needs to realize that and be creative or this team is in trouble. I thought Trent threw the ball real well and held the team together. Chambers looked fast and good. Trent missed him one time where Chambers could have scored from about 50 out and really padded the stats. Cam Cameron is clearly holding this team back. Let loose Cam.

Whisenhunt really was a dud in his debut. He has the BEST wide receiver tandom in the league and he does not use them. I mean the play calling from Grimm was AWFUL. Edge looked good, but that does not mean you should just keep it close. He never went for the kill. When they went up 10-7 they had the chance to open it up, but no, just run...run...run. If that is the team you want, then trade Boldin and Fitz and bring in role player wide outs because Arizona is just wasting money. That game was sooooooo boring, and it was because Arizona was trying to be something they weren't. They were trying to be the Chicago Bears without the Chicago Bears D. If they play an offense that scores, they aren't going to be prepared to beat a team like that. Pathetic coaching
Click to expand...
Harrison and Wayne might disagree there. Whisenhunt also doesn't have the best (or a great) quarterback and has an established running back. He's on the road and has a lead unitl the last seconds of the game-- and loses partially because the defender doesn't slide to pick up the fumble in the end zone (tough play, so I'm not blaming the defense, but that would have ended the game).I'm not saying he looked great, but it's the Cardinals and he had them in the lead at the end of a division road game. I'd call the game boring, but I wouldn't call him a dud. Yet.
Click to expand...
I don't know if sliding would have helped him cover it. It was hard to tell if he had space between him and the ball to get down at full speed. That being said, all he had to do was kick it out of the endzone.
 
redman said:
Da Guru said:
Whisenhunt has to use his strengths, typical new coach trying to do it his way instead of using the talent available.

Fitz, Boldin and Bryant..they seemed very predictable last night try to run every first down.
Click to expand...
Or maybe they were trying to make it a point to establish this team as a good running team, which IMHO they did. They're not a championship team this year, so I think they're taking a far-sighted approach and building this team for next year and beyond.
Click to expand...
Not to mention protecting his young QB, who looked awful. The Cardinals are still a pathetic organization, but Whisenhunt can't change that himself. I've been impressed by what I've seen and heard from him since he took over, and there are a lot of positive signs from last night's game. He inherited an OL that was terrible, a defense that lacked playmakers, and a secondary that consisted of Adrian Wilson and a whole lot of nothing. Without making many major moves in the off-season, all the anticipated weaknesses on this team looked more like strengths last night. That didn't happen by accident. If the only thing the Cardinals have to worry about the rest of the season is getting Leinart and the WRs on the same page (It's not), it's going to be a better year than even people in the organization are anticipating.

 
kncks12 said:
Whisenhunt really was a dud in his debut. He has the BEST wide receiver tandom in the league and he does not use them. I mean the play calling from Grimm was AWFUL. Edge looked good, but that does not mean you should just keep it close. He never went for the kill. When they went up 10-7 they had the chance to open it up, but no, just run...run...run. If that is the team you want, then trade Boldin and Fitz and bring in role player wide outs because Arizona is just wasting money. That game was sooooooo boring, and it was because Arizona was trying to be something they weren't. They were trying to be the Chicago Bears without the Chicago Bears D. If they play an offense that scores, they aren't going to be prepared to beat a team like that. Pathetic coaching
Click to expand...
Sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture. You cannot place each game in a vacuum. Wisenhunt is trying to change 15-20 years of bad history and create an identity in Arizona. He knows you win by controlling the ball and playing good defense (unless you are blessed with Peyton Manning). I like what he is doing. If Leinart makes a couple throws last night, Arizona wins that game. They almost won a divisional game on the road. To say Wisenhunt was a dud on opening night is short sided. The Arizona players looked like they wanted to play for him and they had new pep in their step on defense.
 
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