New England offense (1 Viewer)

[Road Warriors]

Ok, Brady.I've seen posts about Welker, Tate, Hernandez, BJGE, Woodhead.... but what about Brady.he has put up very low numbers three weeks in a row.He still has an awesome Week 16 matchup vs Buffalo.... but there could be weather issues (it's in BUF), that's no lock.What are people doing, just riding Brady until he improves? Yes, the schedule has been rough, yes there has been adjustment without Moss, but how long does this last and does it end at all?

In the league that I have him im starting him every week, unless you have peyton manning also you start no one over brady.

That may be overstating it a bit... I'm starting 5 or 6 guys over Brady right now ( Rodgers, Rivers, Brees, Manning -- ok, maybe 4 ) I think Brady will be good down the stretch. They've faced the #8 and #1 pass D the past 2 weeks after losing the best deep threat receiver on the team. I think the Moss-less Patriots offense is a work in progress, but Brady has shown the ability to hit the open man, and they have enough options that can get open to move the ball through the air.

Why start Rivers, Brees, Rodgers or Manning over Brady atm? Well no argument needed for Manning but honestly, why start River, Brees or Rodgers over Brady?Rivers - Hes making due with Sproles, Gates and Davis, im a huge fan of rivers and the chargers but they are in danger this year.Brees - Elite QB in a terrible team, without Bush they are crippled, without P. Thomas they are dead, falcons win NFC south this year.Rodgers - Injuries EVERYWHERE, never been clutch, accuracy is off and on, hes a great QB too early to tell if hes elite or not.Ill try, Manning - Given the teams injuries they will be successful, impossible to tell how much so though. Manning is obviously the best QB but will he do better than Brady this year? Statistically? Probably. Record? Most definitely not.

From a Fantasy perspective only... All the above are putting up much better fantasy numbers than Brady. That was the context of my posting. Rivers has thrown for almost double the yardage and a handful more TDs. Rivers - 2300/13Rodgers - 1800/12Brees - 2000/14P. Manning 1900 /13E. Manning 1800/14Brady 1300/11Granted, some of these guys have an extra game, but all 5 as 500 yards and 1-3 TD more than Brady at this point. If I'm a fantasy owner, I'd start these guys ahead of Brady. If this is the NFL, I'm starting Brady. I like my chances with him running the show. Numbers don't always tell the whole story on the field.

 

[shortbow]

Ok, Brady.I've seen posts about Welker, Tate, Hernandez, BJGE, Woodhead.... but what about Brady.he has put up very low numbers three weeks in a row.He still has an awesome Week 16 matchup vs Buffalo.... but there could be weather issues (it's in BUF), that's no lock.What are people doing, just riding Brady until he improves? Yes, the schedule has been rough, yes there has been adjustment without Moss, but how long does this last and does it end at all?

In the league that I have him im starting him every week, unless you have peyton manning also you start no one over brady.

That may be overstating it a bit... I'm starting 5 or 6 guys over Brady right now ( Rodgers, Rivers, Brees, Manning -- ok, maybe 4 ) I think Brady will be good down the stretch. They've faced the #8 and #1 pass D the past 2 weeks after losing the best deep threat receiver on the team. I think the Moss-less Patriots offense is a work in progress, but Brady has shown the ability to hit the open man, and they have enough options that can get open to move the ball through the air.

Why start Rivers, Brees, Rodgers or Manning over Brady atm? Well no argument needed for Manning but honestly, why start River, Brees or Rodgers over Brady?Rivers - Hes making due with Sproles, Gates and Davis, im a huge fan of rivers and the chargers but they are in danger this year.Brees - Elite QB in a terrible team, without Bush they are crippled, without P. Thomas they are dead, falcons win NFC south this year.Rodgers - Injuries EVERYWHERE, never been clutch, accuracy is off and on, hes a great QB too early to tell if hes elite or not.Ill try, Manning - Given the teams injuries they will be successful, impossible to tell how much so though. Manning is obviously the best QB but will he do better than Brady this year? Statistically? Probably. Record? Most definitely not.

From a Fantasy perspective only... All the above are putting up much better fantasy numbers than Brady. That was the context of my posting. Rivers has thrown for almost double the yardage and a handful more TDs. Rivers - 2300/13Rodgers - 1800/12Brees - 2000/14P. Manning 1900 /13E. Manning 1800/14Brady 1300/11Granted, some of these guys have an extra game, but all 5 as 500 yards and 1-3 TD more than Brady at this point. If I'm a fantasy owner, I'd start these guys ahead of Brady. If this is the NFL, I'm starting Brady. I like my chances with him running the show. Numbers don't always tell the whole story on the field.

All of those except Manning have 1 more game, theres no question Rivers is having a huge year but he put all those numbers up with a healthy gates, nanee and floyd.Surely strength of schedule is a measure of difficulty?Team 1: BengalsJetsBillsDolphinsRavensChargersTeam 2:ChiefsJaguarsSeahawksCardinalsRaidersRamsPatriotsSpoiler Alert, they played each other in week 7.Of all those teams except for maybe the Giants, the Pats have the most complete team, we may see another Pats Giants bowl.Off to work, plz continue the discussion I will be back later to flex my patriots boner.

 

[steelwind]

I have no doubt the NE offense will get better and better this year. They will eventually open the playbook and take shots downfield at Brandon Tate and Hernandez. I believe the last two weeks without Moss then acquiring Branch has been an adjustment period. However you want to dissect this. NE is still a pass first team. And their best weapon is Tom Brady. Make no mistake that they will take it to the air more than run.

The SD game week 7 was fool's gold. Due to SD's turnovers and bad coaching the NE offense was up early so they didn't have to throw. SD is also the #1 pass defense in the league.

I expect the entire NE offense to put up stats this Sunday vs Minn. I think Coach BB will want to show the league that his offense will be fine without Randy Moss. I also think Tom Brady will want to show Randy Moss that his hair and the NE offense will be fine without him.

 

[switz]

In the league that I have him im starting him every week, unless you have peyton manning also you start no one over brady.

I don't understand this. Outside of '07, hasn't he finished as a top-5 FF QB only once?

Are you arguing that fantasy wise hes not a top 5 QB, or that given everything (getting to 3 superbowls) hes not a top 5 QB in the NFL.

Re-read what I wrote....Take a deep breath, count to 10 backwards.

Repeat this process three times.

I think you might find your answer then.

 

[switz]

Take into consideration he is in the toughest division in football, the Colts use to also be in the AFC east, for Bradys first two years in the league, until they decided the division was ridiculously over the top.

BTW, this has to be the most ridiculous post in the history of the Shark Pool, or at least close to it.

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

New England doesn't have the deep threat, that's what they are lacking. They've always kind of had a bunch of different RB's, flavor of the week guys but the big difference is they don't have the deep threat.

When you had Moss/Welker and the rookie TE's things were fine, you take that huge piece out of the puzzle then yeah, things are going to be the same.

To be honest, I know you're concerned but they're still winning games. They'd be in most people's top 5 at this point so while you're concerned about the Patriots, other teams are concerned about the Patriots.

 

[shortbow]

New England doesn't have the deep threat, that's what they are lacking. They've always kind of had a bunch of different RB's, flavor of the week guys but the big difference is they don't have the deep threat.

When you had Moss/Welker and the rookie TE's things were fine, you take that huge piece out of the puzzle then yeah, things are going to be the same.

To be honest, I know you're concerned but they're still winning games. They'd be in most people's top 5 at this point so while you're concerned about the Patriots, other teams are concerned about the Patriots.

New England does have deep threats, they just dont have Moss, theres a difference for sure, but neglecting Tate or Hernandez is just as bad as neglecting Moss.When Faulk was healthy he was a big part of NE offense and I think Woodhead will fill that rule hopefully as well and potentially better. BGE has performed better than anyone thought he would and hes something new for the pats, I was never a big fan of Maroney.

In the league that I have him im starting him every week, unless you have peyton manning also you start no one over brady.

I don't understand this. Outside of '07, hasn't he finished as a top-5 FF QB only once?

Are you arguing that fantasy wise hes not a top 5 QB, or that given everything (getting to 3 superbowls) hes not a top 5 QB in the NFL.

Re-read what I wrote....Take a deep breath, count to 10 backwards.

Repeat this process three times.

I think you might find your answer then.

Your right was completely me lol, I read the everything but the FF thats why I asked, I also thought I answered it in regards to FF or NFL, turns out I did not.I cant give the actual FF stats but I know that he has never been a slouch but he wasnt the 2 year stud that Brees was and will never be again.

I know he always threw for 3-5k and his rating was never below the mid 80s ever for the year which I would imagine would put him in the Very consistent top 5, top 10 probably if we count his year out.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Ok, Brady.I've seen posts about Welker, Tate, Hernandez, BJGE, Woodhead.... but what about Brady.he has put up very low numbers three weeks in a row.He still has an awesome Week 16 matchup vs Buffalo.... but there could be weather issues (it's in BUF), that's no lock.What are people doing, just riding Brady until he improves? Yes, the schedule has been rough, yes there has been adjustment without Moss, but how long does this last and does it end at all?

In the league that I have him im starting him every week, unless you have peyton manning also you start no one over brady.

That may be overstating it a bit... I'm starting 5 or 6 guys over Brady right now ( Rodgers, Rivers, Brees, Manning -- ok, maybe 4 ) I think Brady will be good down the stretch. They've faced the #8 and #1 pass D the past 2 weeks after losing the best deep threat receiver on the team. I think the Moss-less Patriots offense is a work in progress, but Brady has shown the ability to hit the open man, and they have enough options that can get open to move the ball through the air.

Why start Rivers, Brees, Rodgers or Manning over Brady atm? Well no argument needed for Manning but honestly, why start River, Brees or Rodgers over Brady?Rivers - Hes making due with Sproles, Gates and Davis, im a huge fan of rivers and the chargers but they are in danger this year.Brees - Elite QB in a terrible team, without Bush they are crippled, without P. Thomas they are dead, falcons win NFC south this year.Rodgers - Injuries EVERYWHERE, never been clutch, accuracy is off and on, hes a great QB too early to tell if hes elite or not.Ill try, Manning - Given the teams injuries they will be successful, impossible to tell how much so though. Manning is obviously the best QB but will he do better than Brady this year? Statistically? Probably. Record? Most definitely not.

From a Fantasy perspective only... All the above are putting up much better fantasy numbers than Brady. That was the context of my posting. Rivers has thrown for almost double the yardage and a handful more TDs. Rivers - 2300/13Rodgers - 1800/12Brees - 2000/14P. Manning 1900 /13E. Manning 1800/14Brady 1300/11Granted, some of these guys have an extra game, but all 5 as 500 yards and 1-3 TD more than Brady at this point. If I'm a fantasy owner, I'd start these guys ahead of Brady. If this is the NFL, I'm starting Brady. I like my chances with him running the show. Numbers don't always tell the whole story on the field.

Starting from Week 4 (the game the Pats turned off Moss before trading him) through Week 7 in 3 games Brady has about 34 FF points in standard scoring. 65/100, 83 rating, 2 Picks, 3 TD's, 10*** (TEN) sacks.This is not good from a FF perspective.Even with the bye that puts him in the 20-25 FF QB range post-Moss as an actual, factual, point scoring matter. Maybe that changes vs MIN? When does that change?

 

[switz]

I don't understand this. Outside of '07, hasn't he finished as a top-5 FF QB only once?

Are you arguing that fantasy wise hes not a top 5 QB, or that given everything (getting to 3 superbowls) hes not a top 5 QB in the NFL.

Re-read what I wrote....Take a deep breath, count to 10 backwards.

Repeat this process three times.

I think you might find your answer then.

Your right was completely me lol, I read the everything but the FF thats why I asked, I also thought I answered it in regards to FF or NFL, turns out I did not.I cant give the actual FF stats but I know that he has never been a slouch but he wasnt the 2 year stud that Brees was and will never be again.

I know he always threw for 3-5k and his rating was never below the mid 80s ever for the year which I would imagine would put him in the Very consistent top 5, top 10 probably if we count his year out.

It's all good.On average though, he's not often been a top-5 FF QB. From footballguys.com:

Brady's average over his last five years, not including 2007 is equal to approximately 300 fantasy points. On average each of those seasons saw about seven other QBs with more fantasy points than Brady's average of 300.

 

[captain_amazing]

So what are we thinking now? They lost yesterday more because of their failures on offense and special teams then on defense. Hillis would not have reached 100 yds if the Patriots offense got going in the 1st qtr (although, the D looked quite pathetic knowing the Browns would be running, and still couldn't stop him).

Brady, who I think has done very well with rookie TE's and the WR's all year, was off all game. I think his accuracy has plummeted since week 7 @ the Chargers; balls being thrown at WR's feet, behind them, over them (anywhere but between the #'s). And when he has thrown the ball well, his WR's seem to be dropping the ball in key situations.

The OL played well, IMO, and gave Brady plenty of time to get the ball off. But it seemed either he could not make a decision, no WR's could get open, he missed the WR, or they dropped the ball.

Chalk me in the "Worried about the Pats offense" column.

Love to hear Yudkin's thoughts....

 

[Saint]

Have to ask NE Homers... What happened witH Edelman? He looked good in preseason but has been non-existant all regular season. Is it because his style is very Welker-like and he's not on the field? I figured he would be more involved with Welker moving to flanker opposite Tate and Edelman playing slot. Not sure what's going on, but I would love some insight.

 

[AngryPatriot]

Besides having foolishly switched him out for Benson at the last minute, there has to be some concerns about Tate. After a good week he was non existent, even in a game where they had to play catchup. The Browns did not fear the running game at all. Brady was inaccurate, seemed to really lack confidence in his wr's. Gronk made some HUGE mistakes, leading to 2 turnovers and points, momentum shifts. Welker, Edelman, Tate???

The defense was bad... they just layed an egg all around. Credit to the Browns who have an underrated team and looked the hungrier of the 2. They kicked the Pats butt. Concerned.

 

[switz]

I think his accuracy has plummeted since week 7

Waiting to see people jump all over you for saying this. When I posted that Brady's accuracy was down, especially on long and outside passes, people jumped all over me.

 

[sm8680]

Patriot concerns

1. Defense is not what it use to be.

2. WR's: Welker is in a major funk(I just cut him last week and it was painful for me). D. Branch is garbage. Tate should be given more opportunities.

3. Brady is not what he use to be. I'm a Brady owner & wish I wasn't.

4. RBs aren't as strong as they have been in the past.

5. The best coaches from the glory years are in KC. Really did Eric really win this past weekend. I lost my survivor poll because of this.

6. They can no longer steal the other teams signals like before.

7. Dink and Dunk is major whack unless you have the other teams signals.

8. I'm impartial to the O line.

 

[captain_amazing]

I think his accuracy has plummeted since week 7

Waiting to see people jump all over you for saying this. When I posted that Brady's accuracy was down, especially on long and outside passes, people jumped all over me.

It is hard to argue, without even looking at the stats and just watching those three games, that his accuracy hasn't gone down.With that being said, you can't always tell if he is assuming his WR's or TE's are going to be in a certain spot based on the opposing D's coverage and that the WR's are making the wrong reads and adjustments. But, even some of his throws for easy dump-off's and check-downs have been off.I think it is a funk he will get out of, IMO, but I am wondering when

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

I think his accuracy has plummeted since week 7

Waiting to see people jump all over you for saying this. When I posted that Brady's accuracy was down, especially on long and outside passes, people jumped all over me.

Probably because you did it when Brady was the #2 ranked qb in the NFL, had 9 tds vs 2 Ints and the highest scoring offense in the NFL. In other words, you didn't have any real basis for saying it, other than your seemingly never ending quest to tear down Brady (and pump Manning). Maybe you were referring to another thread or post (sure u will correct me if I am wrong). The following was a follow up thread, but I believe the time frame is right. http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...howtopic=561963

 

[Jambi]

I think his accuracy has plummeted since week 7

Waiting to see people jump all over you for saying this. When I posted that Brady's accuracy was down, especially on long and outside passes, people jumped all over me.

Hmmmm....I wonder why people jump all over you but not him. Maybe you should be asking yourself that question.

 

[switz]

I think his accuracy has plummeted since week 7

Waiting to see people jump all over you for saying this. When I posted that Brady's accuracy was down, especially on long and outside passes, people jumped all over me.

Probably because you did it when Brady was the #2 ranked qb in the NFL, had 9 tds vs 2 Ints and the highest scoring offense in the NFL. In other words, you didn't have any real basis for saying it, other than your seemingly never ending quest to tear down Brady (and pump Manning).

An unobjective observer could see it then, the stats just didn't bear it out yet.I don't tear Brady down to pump up Manning. I dont need to do that. I've posted time and again I think both are great QBs.

 

[Godsbrother]

If Belichik is the genius everyone thinks he is then look for a major improvement this week for Brady and Patriot receivers and RBs. The Steelers defense is almost impossible to run against yet every team tries it for at least 2-3 quarters then they start throwing in the 4th and light it up.

I expect Belichik to recognize this and come out throwing right from the start. The Steelers can generate a pass rush but the key is to get rid of the ball quick which is something Brady excels in. What makes it even easier for the Pats is the Steelers DBs normally give 7-10 yard cushions which should be easy pickings for Brady.

I really expect a high scoring game on Sunday night.

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

I think his accuracy has plummeted since week 7

Waiting to see people jump all over you for saying this. When I posted that Brady's accuracy was down, especially on long and outside passes, people jumped all over me.

Probably because you did it when Brady was the #2 ranked qb in the NFL, had 9 tds vs 2 Ints and the highest scoring offense in the NFL. In other words, you didn't have any real basis for saying it, other than your seemingly never ending quest to tear down Brady (and pump Manning).

An unobjective observer could see it then, the stats just didn't bear it out yet.I don't tear Brady down to pump up Manning. I dont need to do that. I've posted time and again I think both are great QBs.

We kind of keep going around and around on this and I guess it is all in good fun, but clearly you are not an objective observer, an objective observer wouldn't claim Brady was in decline coming off his 2nd best statistical year and owning the above mentioned stats at the time. An objective observer wouldn't make claims like Reche Caldwell was as good as Reggie Wayne. A broken clock is right twice a day and eventually Bradys skills will decline, but at the time you made your decline comments they pretty obviously represented nothing more than wishful thinking on your part. Granted Brady hasn't played as well in the last few games, but that doesn't have anything to do with the virtually unsupportable (IMHO) comments you made a month ago.

Ron Jaworski could be considered an objective observer and right around the time you made your comments Jaworski commented that it looked like some of Mannings play had begun to decline; I don't remember him making any comments with regard to Brady.

I am definitely not saying that I agree with him, but another objective observer (Peter King) has had Brady listed as his MVP (fell to #2 this week) in the last couple of weeks. However 4 weeks ago you claim to have seen an obvious decline in his play.

In just the last couple of weeks you have made post after post in Brady/NE threads (FWIW, I have not) and many of those posts are in the tear down Brady and pump Manning category.

IMO, there are real concerns with NEs offense, but Brady's alleged declining skills would be much further down the my list than the much more obvious (IE real) concerns such as: inconsistent OL play, Welkers Knee, change in Offensive philosophy, inexperienced and or rookie receivers, inordinate # of dropped balls, injuries at rb etc, etc.

I think you are a pretty astute and credible poster with a lot of good things to say, just not when it comes to Brady/NE. It's all good, you are entitled to your opinion and I mine.

Pitt will be a real good test for this offense and I would be lying if I said I wasn't concerned with how the offense has played recently. However, I expect Brady and the NE receivers to play a lot better (obviously they will have to) than they did in Cle.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I am trying to trade Brady right now.

The Buffalo game in Week 16 is his last remaining value as far as I can tell and even that might be in lousey end-of-year-Buffalo-weather.

 

[Neofight]

What's all this nonsense about "unobjective" somethingsomething?

 

[footballnerd]

ummm....

Objective: expressing or dealing with facts or conditions as perceived without distortion by personal feelings, prejudices, or interpretations

Unobjective would be the opposite of this.....and in that case just use the word biased

 

[Neofight]

ummm....Objective: expressing or dealing with facts or conditions as perceived without distortion by personal feelings, prejudices, or interpretationsUnobjective would be the opposite of this.....and in that case just use the word biased

A bit reminiscent of Yogi Berra: "Switzisms"