New Orleans, Green Bay In Bush Derby Now (1 Viewer)

[Bloom]

So San Fran's win over St. Louis basically eliminated them from contention for Bush...Houston still gets Bush if they lose as the only 2-14 team. However, if Houston wins, the winner of the Bush Derby will be a 3-13 team. Who has the lead among current 3-12 teams for worst strength of schedule?GB .505 (assuming they lose to Chicago, this number will go up a few ticks)NO .509 NYJ .534 (A Loss to NE would bump this up)HOU .554SF .571SF needs NO to come through and upset the Bucs, they need the Jets to beat buffalo, and GB to beat Seattle (who will be resting starters) to have a chance to get that #1 unless strength of schedule changes drastically based on week 17 results.So, would NO take Bush, trade down to #2 to take Leinart? None of the above?I have to think GB would take Bush, but there's already murmurs that he doesn't want to go there...The plot thickens.

 

[mario8723]

So San Fran's win over St. Louis basically eliminated them from contention for Bush...

Houston still gets Bush if they lose as the only 2-14 team. However, if Houston wins, the winner of the Bush Derby will be a 3-13 team. Who has the lead among current 3-12 teams for worst strength of schedule?

GB .505 (assuming they lose to Chicago, this number will go up a few ticks)

NO .509 (A Chicago win today would also bump them up a bit, but less than GB)

NYJ .534 (A Loss to NE would bump this up)

HOU .554

SF .571

SF needs NO to come through and upset the Bucs, they need the Jets to beat buffalo, and GB to beat Seattle (who will be resting starters) to have a chance to get that #1 unless strength of schedule changes drastically based on week 17 results.

So, would NO take Bush, trade down to #2 to take Leinart? None of the above?

I have to think GB would take Bush, but there's already murmurs that he doesn't want to go there...

The plot thickens.

I'm not sure if this is accurate. I just read somewhere lelse this week that NYJ had the tiebreaker over NO and GB. As far as I know the Jets are the #3 pick prior to the kickoff of this week's games. I will try to get you a link to substantiate this...

 

[mario8723]

Here is the link to the article I was referring to. According to Newsday, the Jets and Saints are in a tie for #3...

Link

 

[Bloom]

Here is the link to the article I was referring to. According to Newsday, the Jets and Saints are in a tie for #3...

Link

That was going into this weekend. the coin flip only happens if the strength of schedule is equal. according to this.... link

the jets have a .534 SOS and the saints a .509 SOS.

as far as i know that is the only tiebreaker in draft position for teams with the same record before they resort to the coin flip. of course, there are still 19 games left to change that SOS, as of this moment, the saints would have the edge on the jets.

here's the update from the terrific great blue north draft report

With week to play #1 pick still in play… Who ultimately ends up with the first overall pick at the 2006 draft, in fact, will go down to the final week of the schedule. The possibility that the #1 pick would be decided in a head-to-head game between Houston and San Francisco, though, was removed when the 49ers stunned the Rams in St. Louis to raise their record to 3-12. That left the Texans as the only remaining team with just two wins. As such, Houston would get the #1 pick this coming April, and the chance to select star Southern California junior RB Reggie Bush, if the Texans lose in San Francisco on New Year’s Day. A win by the Texans, though, would really muddle the race. The 49ers, for example, may have played themselves out of any chance at the #1 pick. While there are still three other teams with three wins – New Orleans, at 3-12, as well as Green Bay and the Jets, both of whom have to play later tonight and Monday respectively – the 49ers have played a somewhat stronger schedule than the Saints, Jets and Texans. Even if the 49ers lose to Houston, they likely will finish the year with a better combined opponents’ W-L record than the Texans. In fact, a win by Houston next Sunday and New Orleans could sneak into the #1 pick. The Saints have played the weakest schedule of any of the 2-3 win teams and have a tough one to finish up with a road date in Tampa Bay next Sunday. And that could be interesting because the Saints may be one team that will actually be more interested in Southern Cal QB Matt Leinart as opposed to his backfield mate Bush. As usual, we’ll have the full, updated “if the draft were held today selection order for the 2006 draft’ after Monday night’s game so stay tuned!

 

[wannabee]

Nice post Bloom. I have to think that neither Leinhart nor Bush want to go to NO. The situation of losing, hurricane, nomadic home field, poor coaching, poor management, and poor support from fans (jerseys, sellouts, undying devotion, etc). The questions would be: Does Haslett get fired? Where will Brooks play in 2006? How is Deuce progressing in his rehab? Both players would like going to the Jets. They have a devoted fan base, and support the players. Sometimes the limelight is too hot. But, both would appreciate (and handle) the attention better since being big parts of the last two USC teams challenging for the national title. Big questions: What to do with Penny? What to do with Martin, Houston, and Blaylock? Are these two positions solidified enough to allow the Jets to draft other positions of need? I realize most see QB and RB as positions of need. But the defense, OLine, and WR could also be upgraded.Now, to the front-runner. Houston is a big city. In fact, the 4th largest in US. NFL football is not huge in Houston. College football is huge (TAM & Horns). Houston has said it will exercise the Carr option. Many guesstimate that this would preclude them from taking Leinhart. But, a case could be made that Carr stays around to tutor Leinhart for a year, even though he would be expensive. A similar question would be what to do with the recently re-signed Dom Davis. Would they trade Davis? Would they try to utilize both player's abilities (especially with Davis' injury history)? Big questions left: Who will be the Texans coach in 2006? Are other pressing needs (OLine, Defense, and WR) too much that the Texans cannot afford the luxury of taking either Leinhart or Bush?Now to the red-hot Niners. They drafted a QB last year (Smith) and cannot afford the price tag of two top pick QBs in two years. The Niners could use the playmaking ability of Bush. The big questions for the Niners in terms of Bush: What do they do with Barlow? Have they seen enough of Gore and Hicks to make a determination to address the need?I know more questions will be answere over the next week. It will be interesting to see how it shakes out.

 

[Rovers]

.505 is too low for GB based on everything I've seen.... I don't think that's right. NO has a clear lead from the stuff I've seen, and GB and the Jets are neck and neck. NO's opponents have 124 wins, while the Jets and GB will be at 128 each if Baltimore wins.

 

[Winston Smith]

Nice post Bloom. I have to think that neither Leinhart nor Bush want to go to NO. The situation of losing, hurricane, nomadic home field, poor coaching, poor management, and poor support from fans (jerseys, sellouts, undying devotion, etc). The questions would be: Does Haslett get fired? Where will Brooks play in 2006? How is Deuce progressing in his rehab?

I agree with everything you said up until the part about the fans. NO fans have been ridiculously loyal to this franchise. That said, I think both Bush and Leinart could pull the Eli if faced with going to NO. The Saints need to play this well and make someone pay BIG TIME to get Bush.

 

[JAA]

Nice post Bloom.  I have to think that neither Leinhart nor Bush want to go to NO.  The situation of losing, hurricane, nomadic home field, poor coaching, poor management, and poor support from fans (jerseys, sellouts, undying devotion, etc).   The questions would be: Does Haslett get fired?  Where will Brooks play in 2006?  How is Deuce progressing in his rehab?

I agree with everything you said up until the part about the fans. NO fans have been ridiculously loyal to this franchise. That said, I think both Bush and Leinart could pull the Eli if faced with going to NO. The Saints need to play this well and make someone pay BIG TIME to get Bush.

I think it would take Hasslet getting fired and a new coach who seems impressive

 

[wannabee]

Nice post Bloom.  I have to think that neither Leinhart nor Bush want to go to NO.  The situation of losing, hurricane, nomadic home field, poor coaching, poor management, and poor support from fans (jerseys, sellouts, undying devotion, etc).   The questions would be: Does Haslett get fired?  Where will Brooks play in 2006?  How is Deuce progressing in his rehab?

I agree with everything you said up until the part about the fans. NO fans have been ridiculously loyal to this franchise. That said, I think both Bush and Leinart could pull the Eli if faced with going to NO. The Saints need to play this well and make someone pay BIG TIME to get Bush.

Up until this year, what was the attendance average? When I say loyal, I mean top one-third of the league loyal. The "loyal" Saints you refer to, are they the minority die-hard fans? The Saints fans on this board are very ardent, granted. But you cannot, in any way, compare the quantity and loyalty of Saints fans to Jets fans. I will try to find the attendance and merchandise sales figures.

 

[FUBAR]

Very interesting. It almost seems like Houston will land Bush no matter what they do next week.

I think both Bush and Leinart could pull the Eli if faced with going to NO. The Saints need to play this well and make someone pay BIG TIME to get Bush.

Maybe, but either would look worse to fans than Eli did if they pulled this. I can't see anyone supporting a player that says he won't play for New Orleans right now.

Many guesstimate that this would preclude them from taking Leinhart. But, a case could be made that Carr stays around to tutor Leinhart for a year, even though he would be expensive.

What is Carr going to teach a QB? How to lay on his back?

 

[Zigg]

Lineart or Bush refusing to go to NO would be a crushing PR move for either. I doubt they would demand a trade.

 

[wannabee]

Very interesting. It almost seems like Houston will land Bush no matter what they do next week.

I think both Bush and Leinart could pull the Eli if faced with going to NO. The Saints need to play this well and make someone pay BIG TIME to get Bush.

Maybe, but either would look worse to fans than Eli did if they pulled this. I can't see anyone supporting a player that says he won't play for New Orleans right now.

Many guesstimate that this would preclude them from taking Leinhart.  But, a case could be made that Carr stays around to tutor Leinhart for a year, even though he would be expensive. 

What is Carr going to teach a QB? How to lay on his back?

I agree. But, at the same time, wouldn't that be reason enough to go OLine in first round - after trading down?

 

[FUBAR]

Very interesting. It almost seems like Houston will land Bush no matter what they do next week.

I think both Bush and Leinart could pull the Eli if faced with going to NO. The Saints need to play this well and make someone pay BIG TIME to get Bush.

Maybe, but either would look worse to fans than Eli did if they pulled this. I can't see anyone supporting a player that says he won't play for New Orleans right now.

Many guesstimate that this would preclude them from taking Leinhart.  But, a case could be made that Carr stays around to tutor Leinhart for a year, even though he would be expensive. 

What is Carr going to teach a QB? How to lay on his back?

I agree. But, at the same time, wouldn't that be reason enough to go OLine in first round - after trading down?

 

[SuperJohn96]

Whoever gets the #1 pick should trade him away and fill a whole bunch of holes quickly and less costly and would be on track to win much faster then adding just one player.

 

[Jiggyonthehut]

Nice post Bloom. I have to think that neither Leinhart nor Bush want to go to NO. The situation of losing, hurricane, nomadic home field, poor coaching, poor management, and poor support from fans (jerseys, sellouts, undying devotion, etc). The questions would be: Does Haslett get fired? Where will Brooks play in 2006? How is Deuce progressing in his rehab?

I agree with everything you said up until the part about the fans. NO fans have been ridiculously loyal to this franchise. That said, I think both Bush and Leinart could pull the Eli if faced with going to NO. The Saints need to play this well and make someone pay BIG TIME to get Bush.

Up until this year, what was the attendance average? When I say loyal, I mean top one-third of the league loyal. The "loyal" Saints you refer to, are they the minority die-hard fans? The Saints fans on this board are very ardent, granted. But you cannot, in any way, compare the quantity and loyalty of Saints fans to Jets fans. I will try to find the attendance and merchandise sales figures.

I'd balk at the statement that New orleans fans are more loyal than Jets' fans- that simply is not true and I have the numbers to back that up. However, to say that New Orleans' fan support is poor also is a distortion of facts. From '01 to '05 the Jets averaged 77,500+ every year, pegging them at anywhere from the #2 to the #4 in attendance every year. The New Orleans Saints have taken a dip in the past few years but just in '01 they were #9 in home ticket sales with a hair over 70,000, then #15 the next two with 67 and 68 grand respectively. '04 was a down year for sure as attendance slipped 4000 to 64,000 and good for #23 and of course, the anomaly year of 05 with the hurricane situation- although they were not last. Arizona was the only team worse.

I do believe a high impact player can thrive in the Big Easy- we're just a few years away from Deuce and Horn BOTH being in the top 15

 

[wannabee]

Nice post Bloom.  I have to think that neither Leinhart nor Bush want to go to NO.  The situation of losing, hurricane, nomadic home field, poor coaching, poor management, and poor support from fans (jerseys, sellouts, undying devotion, etc).   The questions would be: Does Haslett get fired?  Where will Brooks play in 2006?  How is Deuce progressing in his rehab?

I agree with everything you said up until the part about the fans. NO fans have been ridiculously loyal to this franchise. That said, I think both Bush and Leinart could pull the Eli if faced with going to NO. The Saints need to play this well and make someone pay BIG TIME to get Bush.

Up until this year, what was the attendance average? When I say loyal, I mean top one-third of the league loyal. The "loyal" Saints you refer to, are they the minority die-hard fans? The Saints fans on this board are very ardent, granted. But you cannot, in any way, compare the quantity and loyalty of Saints fans to Jets fans. I will try to find the attendance and merchandise sales figures.

I'd balk at the statement that New orleans fans are more loyal than Jets' fans- that simply is not true and I have the numbers to back that up. However, to say that New Orleans' fan support is poor also is a distortion of facts. From '01 to '05 the Jets averaged 77,500+ every year, pegging them at anywhere from the #2 to the #4 in attendance every year. The New Orleans Saints have taken a dip in the past few years but just in '01 they were #9 in home ticket sales with a hair over 70,000, then #15 the next two with 67 and 68 grand respectively. '04 was a down year for sure as attendance slipped 4000 to 64,000 and good for #23 and of course, the anomaly year of 05 with the hurricane situation- although they were not last. Arizona was the only team worse.

I do believe a high impact player can thrive in the Big Easy- we're just a few years away from Deuce and Horn BOTH being in the top 15

Thanks for the numbers. I do know that the ardent Saints fans are very dedicated and loyal. But, the quantity is what I was referring to. Also, how long will it be until NOLA can effectively field a team? I ask this because most people forget that teams need sponsors, ticket sales, and high end advertisers. How long until these people come back? Isn't the number of NOLA residents at 25-30% returned?

Also, what would a change in city (permanent) do to marketability?

 

[FUBAR]

Whoever gets the #1 pick should trade him away and fill a whole bunch of holes quickly and less costly and would be on track to win much faster then adding just one player.

Ok, but to who?The key question also is for what?

Need a top 5? From your statement, no team in the top 5 should take a deal like that.

Top 10 + a 2nd? Probably not enough and no team from 6-10 should give that for a RB - not their main need.

It looks like the best possible trade that might make sense for both is the #1 to Denver for #20 and #30. But, the best you could get here mirrors the 2001 class - if Bush is the next LT, do you give him for Archuleta (20th) and Reggie Wayne (30th)?

 

[Lord of the Rings]

Whoever gets the #1 pick should trade him away and fill a whole bunch of holes quickly and less costly and would be on track to win much faster then adding just one player.

Ok, but to who?The key question also is for what?

Need a top 5? From your statement, no team in the top 5 should take a deal like that.

Top 10 + a 2nd? Probably not enough and no team from 6-10 should give that for a RB - not their main need.

It looks like the best possible trade that might make sense for both is the #1 to Denver for #20 and #30. But, the best you could get here mirrors the 2001 class - if Bush is the next LT, do you give him for Archuleta (20th) and Reggie Wayne (30th)?

Probably been drinking too much South Florida eggnog, but I wouldn't mind seeing the Dolphins pony up Ricky and their 1st (15th???) and move up to get Leinhart plus some additional picks to use on some OLinemen. Looks like Saban is enjoying his RBBC, so this probably wouldn't happen anyway, but tis the season to dream.

 

[BoltBacker]

I wouldn't mind seeing the Dolphins pony up Ricky and their 1st (15th???) and move up to get Leinhart plus some additional picks to use on some OLinemen.

Keep drinking.

 

[Double_J]

Nice post Bloom.  I have to think that neither Leinhart nor Bush want to go to NO.  The situation of losing, hurricane, nomadic home field, poor coaching, poor management, and poor support from fans (jerseys, sellouts, undying devotion, etc).   The questions would be: Does Haslett get fired?  Where will Brooks play in 2006?  How is Deuce progressing in his rehab?

I agree with everything you said up until the part about the fans. NO fans have been ridiculously loyal to this franchise. That said, I think both Bush and Leinart could pull the Eli if faced with going to NO. The Saints need to play this well and make someone pay BIG TIME to get Bush.

Up until this year, what was the attendance average? When I say loyal, I mean top one-third of the league loyal. The "loyal" Saints you refer to, are they the minority die-hard fans? The Saints fans on this board are very ardent, granted. But you cannot, in any way, compare the quantity and loyalty of Saints fans to Jets fans. I will try to find the attendance and merchandise sales figures.

You really want to compare fan bases with New York's MILLIONS OF PEOPLE to the 4 Million in Louisiana as a whole? Saints fans have put up with Benson's horrible moves time and time again and remained loyal. Only after he tried to move the Saints to San Antonio after the worst natural disaster in the history of th US did Saints fans tell him to #### off and stopped going to the games. Now, as far as what New Orleans should do it's obvious to me. Trade down to as low as possible and still be able to get Hawk from OSU. They need major help on the defensive side of the ball. They will more than likely though take Leinart because he will be a huge bust in the NFL and the Saints never do the right thing on draft day. He doesn't have a huge arm. He's just been surrounded with amazing talent (Bush, White, Williams, etc.) at USC. Not to mention his knee problems behind a suspect line in N.O. would just be a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[FUBAR]

I wouldn't mind seeing the Dolphins pony up Ricky and their 1st (15th???) and move up to get Leinhart plus some additional picks to use on some OLinemen.

Keep drinking.

Cutler, Young or Jacobs may work just fine here too.

 

[Bayou Buffalos]

Nice post Bloom.  I have to think that neither Leinhart nor Bush want to go to NO.  The situation of losing, hurricane, nomadic home field, poor coaching, poor management, and poor support from fans (jerseys, sellouts, undying devotion, etc).   The questions would be: Does Haslett get fired?  Where will Brooks play in 2006?  How is Deuce progressing in his rehab?

I agree with everything you said up until the part about the fans. NO fans have been ridiculously loyal to this franchise. That said, I think both Bush and Leinart could pull the Eli if faced with going to NO. The Saints need to play this well and make someone pay BIG TIME to get Bush.

Up until this year, what was the attendance average? When I say loyal, I mean top one-third of the league loyal. The "loyal" Saints you refer to, are they the minority die-hard fans? The Saints fans on this board are very ardent, granted. But you cannot, in any way, compare the quantity and loyalty of Saints fans to Jets fans. I will try to find the attendance and merchandise sales figures.

I'd balk at the statement that New orleans fans are more loyal than Jets' fans- that simply is not true and I have the numbers to back that up. However, to say that New Orleans' fan support is poor also is a distortion of facts. From '01 to '05 the Jets averaged 77,500+ every year, pegging them at anywhere from the #2 to the #4 in attendance every year. The New Orleans Saints have taken a dip in the past few years but just in '01 they were #9 in home ticket sales with a hair over 70,000, then #15 the next two with 67 and 68 grand respectively. '04 was a down year for sure as attendance slipped 4000 to 64,000 and good for #23 and of course, the anomaly year of 05 with the hurricane situation- although they were not last. Arizona was the only team worse.

I do believe a high impact player can thrive in the Big Easy- we're just a few years away from Deuce and Horn BOTH being in the top 15

Of course, the straight numbers aren't a completely accurate measure, given that the Superdome only has a capacity of 72,000. More to the point is the fact that, prior to last year, the Saints had a string of 36 consecutive home sellouts, despite the crap that Benson has put on the field. How would anyone consider that poor support? http://www.i-sportsbook.com/football/saint...vp_fielkow.html

 

[Kiddnets]

Its a matter of NY market is the best in the world. Almost any player would prefer to be in the NY market - it adds millions of dollars.

 

[el centro]

Where will Brooks play in 2006?

Oakland.

 

[Statorama]

Is there any scenario where the Saints get the #1 overall?If the Saints end up in the top 3, they can't lose. If they're #1 overall, they'll either trade Bush for a ton or let him be the student of Deuce M. for a season before taking over. You let Bush know that he's going to split time with Deuce before becoming the #1 guy in 2007...paying him a kings ransom in "be cool" money. Before I get for suggesting he split time with McCallister, this type of thing is done with QB's all the time...who can forget Carson Palmer sitting for every snap of the Jon Kitna starting era? You show other teams that Deuce is sound, and trade him off the following year.If the Saints end up with #2 or #3, they end up with Leinart or D'Brickshaw. Can't lose with either one of those choices. I actually hope that they end up with D'Brick, who looks like one of those "I'm going to start for someone for the next 10 years" types. Leinart's no slouch either, and would be a starter on that team from day one.I hate to think of this weeks game as a "must lose", but there's a SERIOUS dropoff in talent from pick #3 to pick #4. Bush, Leinart, and D'Brick are franchise type players that New Orleans desperately needs.

 

[Statorama]

Where will Brooks play in 2006? 

Oakland.

Could see him suiting up with Baltimore too, but Boller's come on as of late. I also see Detroit getting in the mix, as they always seem to make bad football decisions.Oakland is the perfect fit for him though.

If he could get assurance that he'd start, he'd be a fool to not sign with Arizona. Lots of talent on that side of the ball.

 

[Raptors]

With so many factors affecting SOS each week, it's nearly impossible to determine who will have the #1 pick at this time.SF's SOS will drop by .013 just by losing to HOU neat week. That doesn't include the other changes as a result of the rest of their 2005 opponents' outcomes next week.Assuming 5 teams end up tied at 3-13, this is what I caclulate for SOS for each team (keep in mind this does not include their 2005 opponents' outcomes due to the complexity required in calculating that).1. NO .5182. HOU .5333. NYJ .535 (based on a week 17 NE win)4. GB .542 5. SF .549 Remember, these numbers will change based on how each teams' 2005 opponents fare in week 17.

 

[Pnishthm]

Is there any scenario where the Saints get the #1 overall?

If the Saints end up in the top 3, they can't lose. If they're #1 overall, they'll either trade Bush for a ton or let him be the student of Deuce M. for a season before taking over. You let Bush know that he's going to split time with Deuce before becoming the #1 guy in 2007...paying him a kings ransom in "be cool" money. Before I get for suggesting he split time with McCallister, this type of thing is done with QB's all the time...who can forget Carson Palmer sitting for every snap of the Jon Kitna starting era? You show other teams that Deuce is sound, and trade him off the following year.

If the Saints end up with #2 or #3, they end up with Leinart or D'Brickshaw. Can't lose with either one of those choices. I actually hope that they end up with D'Brick, who looks like one of those "I'm going to start for someone for the next 10 years" types. Leinart's no slouch either, and would be a starter on that team from day one.

I hate to think of this weeks game as a "must lose", but there's a SERIOUS dropoff in talent from pick #3 to pick #4. Bush, Leinart, and D'Brick are franchise type players that New Orleans desperately needs.

Saints do not really have a need for another O lineman. Their best bet looks to be Leinart and if they don't want to go in that direction, trade down and take Hawk. They have several holes to fill, but QB and LB are the two most glaring needs. If they were to get the overall #1 I can certainly seeing them trade down. How far they would be willing to trade down would depend on on who they wanted to take.

 

[noneother]

so... does detroit have ANY interest or possibility of getting Leinart??gotta think a QB, and a Offensive Guard and Tackle (NOT 2006 Draft) and this team has an acutal shot... in my opinion...my wet dream... Tuna retires, signs a 5 year deal with the LIONS in february 07...

 

[Tiger Fan]

Nice post Bloom.  I have to think that neither Leinhart nor Bush want to go to NO.  The situation of losing, hurricane, nomadic home field, poor coaching, poor management, and poor support from fans (jerseys, sellouts, undying devotion, etc).   The questions would be: Does Haslett get fired?  Where will Brooks play in 2006?  How is Deuce progressing in his rehab?

I agree with everything you said up until the part about the fans. NO fans have been ridiculously loyal to this franchise. That said, I think both Bush and Leinart could pull the Eli if faced with going to NO. The Saints need to play this well and make someone pay BIG TIME to get Bush.

Up until this year, what was the attendance average? When I say loyal, I mean top one-third of the league loyal. The "loyal" Saints you refer to, are they the minority die-hard fans? The Saints fans on this board are very ardent, granted. But you cannot, in any way, compare the quantity and loyalty of Saints fans to Jets fans. I will try to find the attendance and merchandise sales figures.

Actually, there was a study done and the Saints fans were found to be the most loyal fans in the NFL when you took the actual success of the team into account. I believe the formula used was something to the effect of:# of Fans/Wins

 

[wannabee]

Nice post Bloom.  I have to think that neither Leinhart nor Bush want to go to NO.  The situation of losing, hurricane, nomadic home field, poor coaching, poor management, and poor support from fans (jerseys, sellouts, undying devotion, etc).   The questions would be: Does Haslett get fired?  Where will Brooks play in 2006?  How is Deuce progressing in his rehab?

I agree with everything you said up until the part about the fans. NO fans have been ridiculously loyal to this franchise.

That said, I think both Bush and Leinart could pull the Eli if faced with going to NO. The Saints need to play this well and make someone pay BIG TIME to get Bush.

Up until this year, what was the attendance average? When I say loyal, I mean top one-third of the league loyal. The "loyal" Saints you refer to, are they the minority die-hard fans? The Saints fans on this board are very ardent, granted. But you cannot, in any way, compare the quantity and loyalty of Saints fans to Jets fans. I will try to find the attendance and merchandise sales figures.

You really want to compare fan bases with New York's MILLIONS OF PEOPLE to the 4 Million in Louisiana as a whole? Saints fans have put up with Benson's horrible moves time and time again and remained loyal. Only after he tried to move the Saints to San Antonio after the worst natural disaster in the history of th US did Saints fans tell him to #### off and stopped going to the games.

I did not compare just the two cities, Winston is the one who made this a NO thing. IMHO, Houston's fans follow support the Texans less than the Saints.

Of course, the straight numbers aren't a completely accurate measure, given that the Superdome only has a capacity of 72,000. More to the point is the fact that, prior to last year, the Saints had a string of 36 consecutive home sellouts, despite the crap that Benson has put on the field. How would anyone consider that poor support?

http://www.i-sportsbook.com/football/saint...vp_fielkow.html

Winston above made this about NO. I was just comparing the four cities. I agree and addressed above the poor management. I could not get the link to open. I am sorry, but I do not think that stars coming out see the Saint fan base as strong. It is most likely the management, cheapness of Bneson, poor drafting, etc which adds to the problem. But, where are the Saints in jersey sales, national commercials, etc? I do know one stat: the NO Hornets (ran by another poor, too cheap owner) were last, or close to last in attendance last year. Now, they move to a city that is not a pro sports city and the attendance is almost double. In fact, most "pro" cities have more population that the entire state of Oklahoma.

I think Benson sees this and is wanting to move. I, in no way, blame what has happened in the last few months on the fans of NOLA. It was a horrible diaster.

Actually, there was a study done and the Saints fans were found to be the most loyal fans in the NFL when you took the actual success of the team into account. I believe the formula used was something to the effect of:

# of Fans/Wins

I do not see how a Reggie Bush/Leinhart sees this as a good thing. I could see Leinhart telling bush after draft, "hey, the Saints fans support us even though we are terrible. Look, they are OK with Brooks laughing on the sideline while getting creamed. But, I do not like this. I want to win. I want an organization that wants to win and will do any thing to make it happen. I want the fans to pressure the management to make this happen, not support the losing." I do not mean this as a slap on the fans, just Benson and management.

 

[Winston Smith]

Nice post Bloom. I have to think that neither Leinhart nor Bush want to go to NO. The situation of losing, hurricane, nomadic home field, poor coaching, poor management, and poor support from fans (jerseys, sellouts, undying devotion, etc). The questions would be: Does Haslett get fired? Where will Brooks play in 2006? How is Deuce progressing in his rehab?

I agree with everything you said up until the part about the fans. NO fans have been ridiculously loyal to this franchise.

That said, I think both Bush and Leinart could pull the Eli if faced with going to NO. The Saints need to play this well and make someone pay BIG TIME to get Bush.

Up until this year, what was the attendance average? When I say loyal, I mean top one-third of the league loyal. The "loyal" Saints you refer to, are they the minority die-hard fans? The Saints fans on this board are very ardent, granted. But you cannot, in any way, compare the quantity and loyalty of Saints fans to Jets fans. I will try to find the attendance and merchandise sales figures.

You really want to compare fan bases with New York's MILLIONS OF PEOPLE to the 4 Million in Louisiana as a whole? Saints fans have put up with Benson's horrible moves time and time again and remained loyal. Only after he tried to move the Saints to San Antonio after the worst natural disaster in the history of th US did Saints fans tell him to #### off and stopped going to the games.

I did not compare just the two cities, Winston is the one who made this a NO thing. IMHO, Houston's fans follow support the Texans less than the Saints.

Of course, the straight numbers aren't a completely accurate measure, given that the Superdome only has a capacity of 72,000. More to the point is the fact that, prior to last year, the Saints had a string of 36 consecutive home sellouts, despite the crap that Benson has put on the field. How would anyone consider that poor support?

http://www.i-sportsbook.com/football/saint...vp_fielkow.html

Winston above made this about NO. I was just comparing the four cities. I agree and addressed above the poor management. I could not get the link to open. I am sorry, but I do not think that stars coming out see the Saint fan base as strong. It is most likely the management, cheapness of Bneson, poor drafting, etc which adds to the problem. But, where are the Saints in jersey sales, national commercials, etc? I do know one stat: the NO Hornets (ran by another poor, too cheap owner) were last, or close to last in attendance last year. Now, they move to a city that is not a pro sports city and the attendance is almost double. In fact, most "pro" cities have more population that the entire state of Oklahoma.

I think Benson sees this and is wanting to move. I, in no way, blame what has happened in the last few months on the fans of NOLA. It was a horrible diaster.

Actually, there was a study done and the Saints fans were found to be the most loyal fans in the NFL when you took the actual success of the team into account. I believe the formula used was something to the effect of:

# of Fans/Wins

I do not see how a Reggie Bush/Leinhart sees this as a good thing. I could see Leinhart telling bush after draft, "hey, the Saints fans support us even though we are terrible. Look, they are OK with Brooks laughing on the sideline while getting creamed. But, I do not like this. I want to win. I want an organization that wants to win and will do any thing to make it happen. I want the fans to pressure the management to make this happen, not support the losing." I do not mean this as a slap on the fans, just Benson and management.

I didn't make this a "NO" thing. I largely agreed with what you said, but took issue with the "poor support from fans" comment. It isn't true, outside of this year.

 

[crazyhorse]

However it works out, I doubt the Saints would take Bush. They just signed McAllster to a BIG longterm contract and would likely take Leinhart if they have the chance.

 

[wannabee]

You turned a long post with many points to a thread about NO with the "I stopped reading ...". Yes, I stand by that point. Since you brought us here, please explain how they are in the top half. Think about it from a college star standpoint. And the wins/fans argument sounds good to make everyone feel better, just not to a Bush/Leinhart type of player.

 

[Winston Smith]

You turned a long post with many points to a thread about NO with the "I stopped reading ...". Yes, I stand by that point. Since you brought us here, please explain how they are in the top half. Think about it from a college star standpoint. And the wins/fans argument sounds good to make everyone feel better, just not to a Bush/Leinhart type of player.

I did not say "I stopped reading.." I said that I agreed with everything you said except for the loyalty part. Also, loyalty is not the same thing as attractiveness to a college player in the 2006 draft. I agreed with your point when I said that Bush or Leinart may pull an Eli if drafted by the Saints.

 

[tombonneau]

If NO ends up with #1, they would be foolish not to take Leinhart. He is a polished prospect coming out of a pro style offense who will have above-average talent at the skill positions in NO.But NO can't go wrong with Bush or Leinhart, as both will grease the wheels for Benson moving the team to LA.Though if NO does get #1, my guess is that they trade away to the highest bidder among SF & NYJ, both of whom would likely do an Eli Manning-type deal to move up a few spots.

 

[GregR_2]

Is there any scenario where the Saints get the #1 overall?

Yes. Actually the Saints have the best chance of getting it after the Texans. For full details, see the pinned thread.