Jets knew when the drafted Brick he was not a mauler. He was a finese LT. If they wanted a mauler they shouldve traded down and went after Mangold and Marcus McNiel. But anyway, Brick and Mangold still have time to improve, the jets need to draft McFadden, and the rest of the draft be offensive and defensive lineman. Clemems will be ok after getting some protection and another year in the system. He is far ahead of any rookie QB they would bring in, and Brian Brohm is not going to come in and do anything for atleast 3 years, you wanna wait that long? Why would you when next year will be Clemens 3rd year. Clemens with a backfield of McFadden and Washington, along with some O-line improvments could easily be a 3500 yd, 18 TD 10 INT guy next year, not bad for a 25 year old.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
New York Jets Future (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter lookatthepatterns
- Start date
cstu
Footballguy
Don't expect any rookie - top 5 or not - to come in and play better. I'm not sold on Clemens either but all the QB's in this draft are a gamble and that's a lot of money to pay a QB.If you don't like Long, then take McFadden if he's there and spend the rest of the draft on interior lineman. I don't like it since I think TJ is passable with a better OL. No reason to take a WR - they'd be better off getting a FA to go with Cotchery and there are too many other needs.
nittanylion
Footballguy
Bump...what say ye, Jets fans? Plenty of recent goings-on to discuss, thought digging up the 'semi-official' Team thread would get legion discussions consolidated in one place, and give Chase Stuart and friends a place to hang out...
...lots of discussion going on regarding Thomas Jones/Leon Washington vs McFadden...it's my opinion that TJ/LW are a perfectly fine complementary tandem, and if the Jets focus on OL and defense, they'll get more than enough production out of the RB position, certainly enough to take the pressure off a developing Kellen Clem...
...now, hypothetically, let's say that's the route the Jets go - and from the early goings on in Free Agency, they seem to be trying...
...well then, here's something from out in left field, as an offshoot from that discussion...I'm always on the lookout for fellas with sleeper potential, those who can be had on the cheap, and provide production that far outweighs their demand. We discuss plenty of popular 'name players' on these boards. I like discussions about starters who see a majority of offensive snaps, but are kind of invisible, who might benefit from an organization taking a new and different approach...
As I begin my offseason Teams Analysis, I'm wondering if Jets Nation sees anything worth discussing regarding the merits of...
...TE Chris Baker? Just a placeholder, or someone with enough skills of his own to provide KC with a dependable dump off option who can do something with the ball after the catch if given space to work in, and thrive within a balanced offensive scheme?
Thanks!
...lots of discussion going on regarding Thomas Jones/Leon Washington vs McFadden...it's my opinion that TJ/LW are a perfectly fine complementary tandem, and if the Jets focus on OL and defense, they'll get more than enough production out of the RB position, certainly enough to take the pressure off a developing Kellen Clem...
...now, hypothetically, let's say that's the route the Jets go - and from the early goings on in Free Agency, they seem to be trying...
...well then, here's something from out in left field, as an offshoot from that discussion...I'm always on the lookout for fellas with sleeper potential, those who can be had on the cheap, and provide production that far outweighs their demand. We discuss plenty of popular 'name players' on these boards. I like discussions about starters who see a majority of offensive snaps, but are kind of invisible, who might benefit from an organization taking a new and different approach...
As I begin my offseason Teams Analysis, I'm wondering if Jets Nation sees anything worth discussing regarding the merits of...
...TE Chris Baker? Just a placeholder, or someone with enough skills of his own to provide KC with a dependable dump off option who can do something with the ball after the catch if given space to work in, and thrive within a balanced offensive scheme?
Thanks!
LBH
Footballguy
I really dont want the jets to draft mcfadden and would much rather them sign Gholston or trade out of the pick and address CB,WR,OL with the extra picks. As far as Baker...I think hes a little underated. Hes not a game breaker at the position, but he has soft hands and runs pretty good routes. If they continue to lack depth at WR, he should see a bump in targets this year
Sammy B
Footballguy
Agreed. His numbers do not reflect his talent. It just seems that he does not get the ball on a consistent basis. Baker has had some pretty good games WHEN he's involved in the game plan.
brednbuddah
Footballguy
couldn't agree more. The Jets don't need DMac. I would much rather see them use #6 overall on D.
I like Baker when Clemens is in there. I don't know the numbers, but Baker is a consistent red zone target for Clemens. I believe 3 of Clemens' 5 TDs went to Baker and wasn't the one that wasn't ruled a TD on the last play against Cleveland, Clemens to Baker (redzone)?
TLEF316
Footballguy
1) Faneca signing- i would have rather had jacob Bell in the long term, but faneca will do more to help ferguson. Right now, thats the most important
2) vilma trade- would have rather had more, but i'll deal with it.
3) jenkins trade- love it. I think he'll do wonders
4) pace signing- don't like it. Too much $$ for 1 year of production. likely takes us out of the market for gholston
5) woody- cant remember watching him play. but he's gotta be better than clement.
The future-------
Looks like Robertson will be cut. His cap number is huge and we have no leverage with jenkins on board and extended. Its a shame. Robertson isnt a bad player, he's just in the wrong system.....
Gotta get Rhodes extended. I love the guy. He's a stud. Give him sanders money if you have to. I think he's that important.
1) clemens- obviously we havent learned anything since the end of the year. The o-line additions should be great. Losing coles could hurt if these contract rumblings continue.
2) Leon- Get him involved. He's got westbrook type skills. He may never be that good, but he's similar enough that his possible contribution really needs to be looked at before we commit to another young back.
The Draft.......
round 1. At this point, its looking like Mcfadden. I'm not happy about it. If dallas calls for a trade, I'll take it. normally, such a move would require the 2 first rounders plus another pick. At this point, i would take the 2 firsts by themselves if it means we're filling two holes instead of taking Mcfadden.
if we have to stay at 6, i want gholston. 2nd choice is a corner.
round 2- i'd take a heavy look at a WR if one slides. I like Hardy from IU. we need a deep threat to stretch the field.
2) vilma trade- would have rather had more, but i'll deal with it.
3) jenkins trade- love it. I think he'll do wonders
4) pace signing- don't like it. Too much $$ for 1 year of production. likely takes us out of the market for gholston
5) woody- cant remember watching him play. but he's gotta be better than clement.
The future-------
Looks like Robertson will be cut. His cap number is huge and we have no leverage with jenkins on board and extended. Its a shame. Robertson isnt a bad player, he's just in the wrong system.....
Gotta get Rhodes extended. I love the guy. He's a stud. Give him sanders money if you have to. I think he's that important.
1) clemens- obviously we havent learned anything since the end of the year. The o-line additions should be great. Losing coles could hurt if these contract rumblings continue.
2) Leon- Get him involved. He's got westbrook type skills. He may never be that good, but he's similar enough that his possible contribution really needs to be looked at before we commit to another young back.
The Draft.......
round 1. At this point, its looking like Mcfadden. I'm not happy about it. If dallas calls for a trade, I'll take it. normally, such a move would require the 2 first rounders plus another pick. At this point, i would take the 2 firsts by themselves if it means we're filling two holes instead of taking Mcfadden.
if we have to stay at 6, i want gholston. 2nd choice is a corner.
round 2- i'd take a heavy look at a WR if one slides. I like Hardy from IU. we need a deep threat to stretch the field.
NYCGangGreen
Footballguy
In agreeance with the trade out of #6 to get more. McFadden is a talent that could be a great pick, but I'm not so sure we couldn't do just as well with the depth of RB in this years draft.As for WR in round 2, I would love to trade into the late 2nd or early 3rd and take Doucet if he is still available. I think if he is paired with Cotchery, the threat for YAC are insane and could be a pretty nice 2some out there. Stuckey or Smith in the slot would work nicely, and Baker has been prgressing quite well.This all depends on how Coles will handle the contract dilemna.Also Rhodes needs to be resigned pronto! I'd hate to see him go the way of Gibril Wilson and leave after coming on so strong the past few years. For a young kid he brings good leadership to he secondary unit, and has proven to be a force.
brednbuddah
Footballguy
dude, if he's there at #6, trust me, they'll find a way.
uh... robertson is a Bengal now.yes. washington is the real deal. they need to MAKE him part of the offense.
I thought that trade got turned down or reversed
NYCGangGreen
Footballguy
Kiddnets
Footballguy
As a Jet fan who complained that Woody was cheap I am happy with the offseason even though they overpaid
Fanacea - will do wonders for the OL - love the signing
Jenkins - Another guy I loved - finally have some beef on that DL - great addition
Pace - everyone compares him to Bryan Thomas but this guy got much better as the year went on - read his split stats and he really came on at the end of the year. Could be a great 3-4 LB - we overpaid but hey thats FA!
Woody - I like it - put him at RT this year but his versatility is the key - they can draft a young RT and develop with Woody sliding over to G is Morre continues his lousy play.
QB - with these signngs i fear they may be handing the keys to Chad - I think thats a mistake. I would deal Chad and roll with the kid - if they are not sold on KC then grab Ryan if he grades out as a franchise QB - but turn the page on chad once and for all!
WR - Major problem - if Coles doesn't take the fair deal offered its time to deal him as well IMO - I would like to see them grab a tall WR with some speed in the 2nd rd.
Draft - I am hoping for a DMac/Gholston choice - I can live with both but hopefully the Cowboys get crazy and make an offer Tangini can't refuse!
Fanacea - will do wonders for the OL - love the signing
Jenkins - Another guy I loved - finally have some beef on that DL - great addition
Pace - everyone compares him to Bryan Thomas but this guy got much better as the year went on - read his split stats and he really came on at the end of the year. Could be a great 3-4 LB - we overpaid but hey thats FA!
Woody - I like it - put him at RT this year but his versatility is the key - they can draft a young RT and develop with Woody sliding over to G is Morre continues his lousy play.
QB - with these signngs i fear they may be handing the keys to Chad - I think thats a mistake. I would deal Chad and roll with the kid - if they are not sold on KC then grab Ryan if he grades out as a franchise QB - but turn the page on chad once and for all!
WR - Major problem - if Coles doesn't take the fair deal offered its time to deal him as well IMO - I would like to see them grab a tall WR with some speed in the 2nd rd.
Draft - I am hoping for a DMac/Gholston choice - I can live with both but hopefully the Cowboys get crazy and make an offer Tangini can't refuse!
Reaper
Footballguy
Didn't Dallas lock up Barber??? I was all over that trade months ago but, I can't see it happening now... I'm almost hoping Ryan or one of the DT's will bring some trade value maybe from Cincy???As for Mcfadden... We haven't had a play maker like that in forever. If he's here with TJ and Leon maybe he could be used a lot lined up as a WR... Anything to get the ball in his hands in space!!!It would be real interesting to see how they rework the offense with him involved...BUT.... Talent and weight proportions aside - I'm not sure if this is the kind of character the Jets want to use a top pick on???? 4 Children aside, When I listen to him in interviews I just don't get that "Football Player" feeling from him and more of a me me me, stats feeling and not too brite... That's my impression - We've seen him on the field but I'd like to hear more about him as a person and his attitude toward the game - For the Jets I think this will be EXTREMELY important and will be the thing that could sway this pick...Gholston on the other hand talks like a football player in the interviews I've seen - Though he did say he would prefer Lining up as a DE, more likely in a 4-3....
Reaper
Footballguy
Speculation that his knee condition is even worse...I've said that for a long while now - When this guy's time is up for a new contract, how can you shell out top DT like money for a guy with Balky knees.... You'd have to ask Terry "Freaking" Bradway why you would use 2 1st round picks and draft him inthe 1st place.
And I Hisssss at all those Jets fans and football fans who claimed all along that the Jets should throw out their defensive playbook and play a 4-3 because of this guy - For starters you would STILL need a Jenkins like player next to him in a 4-3 and knowing you can't lock him up long term with his condition, it would be insane to drastically change your philosophy for 1 or 2 guys.... And Vilma IMO was over rated and had 1 good year
Gone and Gone.
Koya
Footballguy
Why would you want to roll with the kid? You now have a team that has overpaid on a number of positions, to win now. Did you really seen anything that would tell you that the kid can be a winning QB? What we DO know is that with the right pieces around him, Chad is a leader, and a winner. He doesnt have an arm - but with all that overspending, neither do the Jets have a great receiver.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
We've seen the best from Chad and its not enough to get deep in the playoffs - at one time it was but he has lost some much zip on his throws that he is a liability. He can't throw deep. He can't throw an out pattern. And he made a ton of mistakes last year that a "smart" QB should not make. KC showed glimpses last year - he made some plays but could not look consistant because he WRs had the drops, he had zero running game and he was on his back or a defender in his face after 1 second thanks to Clarke and Clement. Give the kid a playmaker at RB like DMC and a nice tall WR to throw to and watch him go with the new OL. I'll take the upside over a guy who just can' do it anymore. I know there are fans that feel otherwise - but that is my take.
TLEF316
Footballguy
It used to be that chad just had a bad arm. It sucked, but it was alright, because we had some decent WRs, a HOf RB and a veteran O-line. Now, chad has that same noodle arm......but is making AWFUL decisions. Watch the game against the giants. It's all you'll need to see. Jets are winning the game. They have all the momentum. They get a first down inside the 20 yard line. First down....Chad throws a fade route, off his back foot.....into a double team. It goes back for 6 and the game is basically over after that.Bottom line. Chad's decision making skills have gone in the crapper. yeah, some of it had to do with a lack of protection, but honestly, most of it didn't. Chad is at the point where he has all day, stares down his WR's and throws game killing picks. I think he can still be serviceable, but i don't want him leading my team anymore.
LBH
Footballguy
I thought he looked pretty good against the Steelers and Ravens. Its way too early to write off Clemens. Lets give him a full year as starter with some help around him. The last time I saw Pennington with the starting job, I dont remember him looking any better. Clemens had to deal with a terrible OL, and injured wrs while he was starting. Also I think that while the Jets might not have a great wr, they do have a couple of very good ones
brednbuddah
Footballguy
oof! I stand corrected.Cinci backed out of the trade. D-Rob the slob is still on the Jets
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Code:
Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk%Chad 179 260 68.8 1765 10 3.8 9 3.5 57 6.8 5.6 9.9 196.1 86.1 26 178 5.5 4.5 9.1Kellen 130 250 52.0 1529 5 2.0 10 4.0 56 6.1 4.5 11.8 152.9 60.9 27 138 5.0 3.6 9.7
Last edited by a moderator:
NYCGangGreen
Footballguy
Chase, seeing as youre a numbers guy. Do you have info on the draft pick we are acquiring from the Redskins from the Kendall trade. It was to be if he played less then 80% of the snaps last season we would receive their 5th round pick for this years draft. And if he played 80% or more, we would actually get their 4th Rd. pick next year. IIIRC he played in all 16 games, and with the injuries they had to their line, I would guess that he made the condition for the 4th next year. But I am pretty bad at looking up snap %'s and such, so I was curious if you had any info for it? TIA
cstu
Footballguy
Over the past 3 seasons, Pennington has a combined 29 TD/28 INT. He turns 32 and they need to find his long-term replacement, whether it's Clemens or someone else.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
He's the same age as Peyton Manning. 32 isn't old.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
I have no idea, unfortunately. I don't even know when such information is announced.
NYCGangGreen
Footballguy
I guess it's the old wait and see approach then. Thanks anyways...I'm searching everywhere for snap counts/percentages...but well, I'll just say unsuccessful so far.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
It is when you have a weak arm with 2 major shoulder surgeries on it - along with declining decision making capabilities. The numbers as you have here is Chad's best case IMO - I think KC has a much better chance of improving then Chad. He just looked done last year.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
So you think Chad's best case scenario are last year's numbers despite the Jets making significant improvements on the OL?
TLEF316
Footballguy
chad's struggles last year weren't due to protection issues. Don't get me wrong....the line was awful. But chad stared down receivers and threw balls he had no business throwing. Picture Favre 3 years ago without the arm strength.
TLEF316
Footballguy
i can not believe all the talk coming out of jets camp today...... "Disgruntled veterans are upset about the money being spent on free Agents"...... YOU WENT 4-12 LAST YEAR!!!!! So basically, they went 2-12 against actual NFL teams. Kerry Rhodes needs to get his extension. Anyone else (Coles and Baker in particular) can either shut their mouths or go play some place else.
Instead of using the money to improve the team, they'd prefer to get raises (in Coles' case, like 16 months after he signed his contract) I don't think I've ever heard anything so selfish.
Instead of using the money to improve the team, they'd prefer to get raises (in Coles' case, like 16 months after he signed his contract) I don't think I've ever heard anything so selfish.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Favre in 2005 had a 70.9 QB Rating, and averaged 4.6 adjusted yards per pass. Pennington had an 86.1 QBR and averaged 5.6 AY/A. Chad's struggles last year were absolutely due to the decline of the offensive line. A bad pass protecting unit drastically reduces what you can do on offense, it limits the playbook, and it prevents the team from using four and five receiver sets or sending backs and tight ends out to catch passes. Chad threw some bad passes last year, no doubt about that. He happened to throw some particularly memorable bad passes. Overall, though, he was better than Clemens by a mile, and had pretty similar averages to Eli Manning last year, who managed to win a Super Bowl.You might not like Chad, might think Chad's ceiling is lower than Clemens, or might just think Pennington's holding the team back. That's fine. But I think you're being intellectually dishonest if you claim that the improved offensive line isn't likely to help Pennington a good bit this year, if he plays.
TLEF316
Footballguy
i don't dislike Chad. I didn't really think the struggles of the team were his fault. Maybe it is the fact that his INT's were so damn memorable. It seemed like every one of them was a complete game killer. They were all out routes that his noodle arm had no business throwing. They got picked off and taken back for TD's like they were thrown by a HS QB.
I know you're a big numbers guy chase. I'm not going to even attempt to "beat" you in any type of statistical argument. But are you gonna tell me you think Chad has any shot of taking this team to a super bowl? Forget QB rating. We all know that its not even close to a perfect statistic. Based on what you see on the field, and the way teams are able to play defense when chad is out there, do you think they can win at this point?
Not saying Clemens is or isn't a super bowl QB. There is no way of knowing that right now. I just want to see him get a chance. Chad has had his chance, in his prime, to play with an elite running game and a solid offensive line. Clemens has not. Hell, Mccariens alone blew two games for clemens last year. I want to see what this kid can do with what looks like a nicely upgraded offense.
I know you're a big numbers guy chase. I'm not going to even attempt to "beat" you in any type of statistical argument. But are you gonna tell me you think Chad has any shot of taking this team to a super bowl? Forget QB rating. We all know that its not even close to a perfect statistic. Based on what you see on the field, and the way teams are able to play defense when chad is out there, do you think they can win at this point?
Not saying Clemens is or isn't a super bowl QB. There is no way of knowing that right now. I just want to see him get a chance. Chad has had his chance, in his prime, to play with an elite running game and a solid offensive line. Clemens has not. Hell, Mccariens alone blew two games for clemens last year. I want to see what this kid can do with what looks like a nicely upgraded offense.
Last edited by a moderator:
Reaper
Footballguy
I was just reading through one of the Pennington debates from last year Chad
I wonder if this year plays out the same way With Chad winning the job but, on a leash... I would say short but, by the time Kellen played last year I believe there were very few supporters left... I know some Die Hard Chad supporters who at this point feel it's best to move on.. I kinda think the Jets fans that still support Chad are down to very small percentage - I guess the fan reactions also showed this last year.
The big wild card is the money owed to Chad.
I can see it going down like this: Mini camps open - Kellen is given every opportunity and is evaluated up and down. If he looks like he's made a major leap, then they can make a better educated decision on Chad.. I think the hope is Kellen is ready to go.
I'm not sure of the cap ramifications though and I believe that plays a huge role in the decision..
Personally, I don't know what the hell they should do - I know they should analyze every QB in this draft and in FA as if they are a team with NO QB's and need one now... If they think Ryan is a franchise QB, I say take him.. then in later rounds that goes for Flacco, Henne or anyone else..
Same for FA they need to compare whoever is out there to Chad with $$$$ in mind.
I can also see this season as another "rebuilding" step, a lot of things fall into place and still No QB where they wind up spending and rolling with a top FA next year just like they got cornered into doing with the Guard spot this year..... Though I have to say, of you're going to get forced into spending some big Bucks on a player, there's lot worse you can do than a leader and player like Faneca!!!!!
I wonder if this year plays out the same way With Chad winning the job but, on a leash... I would say short but, by the time Kellen played last year I believe there were very few supporters left... I know some Die Hard Chad supporters who at this point feel it's best to move on.. I kinda think the Jets fans that still support Chad are down to very small percentage - I guess the fan reactions also showed this last year.
The big wild card is the money owed to Chad.
I can see it going down like this: Mini camps open - Kellen is given every opportunity and is evaluated up and down. If he looks like he's made a major leap, then they can make a better educated decision on Chad.. I think the hope is Kellen is ready to go.
I'm not sure of the cap ramifications though and I believe that plays a huge role in the decision..
Personally, I don't know what the hell they should do - I know they should analyze every QB in this draft and in FA as if they are a team with NO QB's and need one now... If they think Ryan is a franchise QB, I say take him.. then in later rounds that goes for Flacco, Henne or anyone else..
Same for FA they need to compare whoever is out there to Chad with $$$$ in mind.
I can also see this season as another "rebuilding" step, a lot of things fall into place and still No QB where they wind up spending and rolling with a top FA next year just like they got cornered into doing with the Guard spot this year..... Though I have to say, of you're going to get forced into spending some big Bucks on a player, there's lot worse you can do than a leader and player like Faneca!!!!!
ninerfanatic492000
Footballguy
Does the Richardson signing signify this? Arkansas didn't use a fullback, or did they?
