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NFL Draft Signals Giant-Patriots (1 Viewer)

Clifton

Footballguy
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NFL Draft Signals Giants-Patriots Super Rematch: Kevin Hassett

Commentary by Kevin Hassett

April 28 (Bloomberg) -- Three years ago in this space, I began tracking the performance of an economic model of the National Football League draft that was developed by Richard Thaler of the University of Chicago and Cade Massey of Yale University. When I did so, it seemed unlikely that the model would be successful in determining the winners and losers of something as dicey as the annual draft.

The model’s performance, though, has been striking.

Its rankings of each draft provide a statistically significant predictor of wins the following season, and some of the predictions have been startling. For example, of the eight clear draft winners in 2007 and 2008, four were in the playoffs this past season, including three rather unlikely candidates -- the Miami Dolphins, the Baltimore Ravens and the Carolina Panthers. Since losing teams tend to start the draft with the most ammo, such a hit rate is impressive.

The model also identified nine big losers in the 2007 and 2008 drafts, including such big-time favorites as the Dallas Cowboys and the New England Patriots. Only one of the nine, the Minnesota Vikings, made the playoffs last season. The Vikings lost in the first round.

So while the television screens were buzzing with expert analysis of the draft this weekend, I dutifully entered numbers in my computer.

The headline is that this year, two of the biggest winners are already powerhouse teams. It looks like there is a strong chance there will be another Super Bowl between the Patriots and the New York Giants, who faced off in February 2008, with the Giants prevailing.

Cap Is Key

Before jumping all the way to the Super Bowl, let’s review how the system works.

Since NFL teams operate under a salary cap, success requires that a team find players who perform better than their salaries would suggest.

If there were no cap, you could just pay $10 million to every player on your roster and produce a winner. Call this the New York Yankees Strategy.

With the cap, if you spend that much on one player, you have less money to spend at the other spots. You need to get superstar performance at low, low prices.

The draft allows you to do that. Players chosen in the first round get stratospheric salaries. This year’s top pick, Matthew Stafford, has already signed with the Detroit Lions for an astonishing $78 million maximum over six years. But players chosen later on get much lower salaries.

Thaler and Massey examined the history of drafting and found that teams that choose at the top do not necessarily get their money’s worth, while teams picking in the later rounds, especially the second, tend to get real bargains.

Historic Value

To put their system into practice, I used their results to calculate the historic value associated with each spot in the draft -- 10th, 55th, 97th, etc. -- and then added up the values for each team’s choices in the first four rounds.

The system is player-blind. That is, it doesn’t care who the fourth pick in the second round is; it simply gives a team credit for selecting a typically successful player in that slot.

Looking at this year’s scores, the four big winners were, in order, the Patriots, the Denver Broncos, the Lions and the Giants.

New England’s coach, Bill Belichick, who majored in economics in college, has clearly been reading the literature. He ditched his first-round pick altogether and loaded up on four second-rounders. In addition, he traded some of his later picks for other teams’ second-round picks next year.

The Patriots’ haul was the second-highest-scoring draft since 2003, when my calculations begin. The only team that did better was the 2004 Cincinnati Bengals, a team that, if you are keeping score, went on to win its division in 2005.

Belichick Disciple

Belichick disciple Josh McDaniels, now coaching the Broncos, clearly has taken a page from the master. His team, and the Lions, are probably rebuilding next year, and they are off to a great start.

The big news is that the Giants maneuvered to get two second-round and two third-round picks, elevating their final scores. Expect them to once again be the class of the National Football Conference.

It didn’t take a computer to spot the big loser in this year’s draft, the Washington Redskins. The Redskins once again revealed their extreme economic ignorance, trading away their second-round and fourth-round picks. U.S. bailout money is the only thing that can save the Redskins now. (How convenient: Their plea for help would be a local call.)

The other big losers were the San Francisco 49ers and New York’s other team, the Jets.

Still the Jets

The Jets made a classic error, falling in love with University of Southern California quarterback Mark Sanchez and virtually guaranteeing they will have a large number of undrafted scrubs on their roster. Given the high salaries at the top of the draft, Sanchez will probably not generate much value above that demanded by his salary, even if he becomes a superstar.

Why has the Thaler-Massey system worked so well? The best explanation is that football is a violent sport. Having a star might not guarantee success, since the star might get injured. Having two solid second-round talents at a position might well be a better call, since the backup plan is in place if the starter gets injured. And that backup plan is cost-effective, since second-round salaries are relatively low.

So next year, if New England loses its starting safety to injury, its first pick in the second round, Patrick Chung, can step right in and perform adequately. The Giants will be just as prepared. When injuries strike the Redskins, the replacements will come from the street. Which is why Patriots and Giants fans should be feeling pretty good right now, and Redskins and Jets fans should prepare for yet another disappointing season.

(Kevin Hassett, director of economic-policy studies at the American Enterprise Institute, is a Bloomberg News columnist. He was an adviser to Republican Senator John McCain of Arizona in the 2008 presidential election. The opinions expressed are his own.)
Can't say that I disagree. Maybe Chase could weigh-in.
 
Link

NFL Draft Signals Giants-Patriots Super Rematch: Kevin Hassett

Commentary by Kevin Hassett

April 28 (Bloomberg) -- Three years ago in this space, I began tracking the performance of an economic model of the National Football League draft that was developed by Richard Thaler of the University of Chicago and Cade Massey of Yale University. When I did so, it seemed unlikely that the model would be successful in determining the winners and losers of something as dicey as the annual draft.

The model's performance, though, has been striking.

Its rankings of each draft provide a statistically significant predictor of wins the following season, and some of the predictions have been startling. For example, of the eight clear draft winners in 2007 and 2008, four were in the playoffs this past season, including three rather unlikely candidates -- the Miami Dolphins, the Baltimore Ravens and the Carolina Panthers. Since losing teams tend to start the draft with the most ammo, such a hit rate is impressive.

The model also identified nine big losers in the 2007 and 2008 drafts, including such big-time favorites as the Dallas Cowboys and the New England Patriots. Only one of the nine, the Minnesota Vikings, made the playoffs last season. The Vikings lost in the first round.

So while the television screens were buzzing with expert analysis of the draft this weekend, I dutifully entered numbers in my computer.

The headline is that this year, two of the biggest winners are already powerhouse teams. It looks like there is a strong chance there will be another Super Bowl between the Patriots and the New York Giants, who faced off in February 2008, with the Giants prevailing.

Cap Is Key

Before jumping all the way to the Super Bowl, let's review how the system works.

Since NFL teams operate under a salary cap, success requires that a team find players who perform better than their salaries would suggest.

If there were no cap, you could just pay $10 million to every player on your roster and produce a winner. Call this the New York Yankees Strategy.

With the cap, if you spend that much on one player, you have less money to spend at the other spots. You need to get superstar performance at low, low prices.

The draft allows you to do that. Players chosen in the first round get stratospheric salaries. This year's top pick, Matthew Stafford, has already signed with the Detroit Lions for an astonishing $78 million maximum over six years. But players chosen later on get much lower salaries.

Thaler and Massey examined the history of drafting and found that teams that choose at the top do not necessarily get their money's worth, while teams picking in the later rounds, especially the second, tend to get real bargains.

Historic Value

To put their system into practice, I used their results to calculate the historic value associated with each spot in the draft -- 10th, 55th, 97th, etc. -- and then added up the values for each team's choices in the first four rounds.

The system is player-blind. That is, it doesn't care who the fourth pick in the second round is; it simply gives a team credit for selecting a typically successful player in that slot.

Looking at this year's scores, the four big winners were, in order, the Patriots, the Denver Broncos, the Lions and the Giants.

New England's coach, Bill Belichick, who majored in economics in college, has clearly been reading the literature. He ditched his first-round pick altogether and loaded up on four second-rounders. In addition, he traded some of his later picks for other teams' second-round picks next year.

The Patriots' haul was the second-highest-scoring draft since 2003, when my calculations begin. The only team that did better was the 2004 Cincinnati Bengals, a team that, if you are keeping score, went on to win its division in 2005.

Belichick Disciple

Belichick disciple Josh McDaniels, now coaching the Broncos, clearly has taken a page from the master. His team, and the Lions, are probably rebuilding next year, and they are off to a great start.

The big news is that the Giants maneuvered to get two second-round and two third-round picks, elevating their final scores. Expect them to once again be the class of the National Football Conference.

It didn't take a computer to spot the big loser in this year's draft, the Washington Redskins. The Redskins once again revealed their extreme economic ignorance, trading away their second-round and fourth-round picks. U.S. bailout money is the only thing that can save the Redskins now. (How convenient: Their plea for help would be a local call.)

The other big losers were the San Francisco 49ers and New York's other team, the Jets.

Still the Jets

The Jets made a classic error, falling in love with University of Southern California quarterback Mark Sanchez and virtually guaranteeing they will have a large number of undrafted scrubs on their roster. Given the high salaries at the top of the draft, Sanchez will probably not generate much value above that demanded by his salary, even if he becomes a superstar.

Why has the Thaler-Massey system worked so well? The best explanation is that football is a violent sport. Having a star might not guarantee success, since the star might get injured. Having two solid second-round talents at a position might well be a better call, since the backup plan is in place if the starter gets injured. And that backup plan is cost-effective, since second-round salaries are relatively low.

So next year, if New England loses its starting safety to injury, its first pick in the second round, Patrick Chung, can step right in and perform adequately. The Giants will be just as prepared. When injuries strike the Redskins, the replacements will come from the street. Which is why Patriots and Giants fans should be feeling pretty good right now, and Redskins and Jets fans should prepare for yet another disappointing season.

(Kevin Hassett, director of economic-policy studies at the American Enterprise Institute, is a Bloomberg News columnist. He was an adviser to Republican Senator John McCain of Arizona in the 2008 presidential election. The opinions expressed are his own.)
Can't say that I disagree. Maybe Chase could weigh-in.
I love it. New England wanted Harvin and only moved down after Minnesota took him. New England makes that pick and no doubt the media would praise Belichick as a genius. Minnesota makes the same pick and they lost in the first round. You can't tell me that New England wouldn't take a player with character concern like Harvin since they took a Tate who also failed a drug test at combine.I don’t doubt that New England got good players on the cheap but at the same time maybe they failed to get a real difference maker. Moving down to get Chad Jackson looked like a wise move a couple years ago. It doesn't look so great now. Handing out draft grade on day one is interesting exercise but means little. IMO, New England was a super bowl contender long before even this draft took place.

 
I love it. New England wanted Harvin and only moved down after Minnesota took him. New England makes that pick and no doubt the media would praise Belichick as a genius. Minnesota makes the same pick and they lost in the first round. You can't tell me that New England wouldn't take a player with character concern like Harvin since they took a Tate who also failed a drug test at combine.

I don’t doubt that New England got good players on the cheap but at the same time maybe they failed to get a real difference maker. Moving down to get Chad Jackson looked like a wise move a couple years ago. It doesn't look so great now. Handing out draft grade on day one is interesting exercise but means little. IMO, New England was a super bowl contender long before even this draft took place.
Has there been any admission by BB that Harvin was targetted? He was popular choice among some fans, but I haven't seen anything from the front office on that(?).Agree that draft grades on day 1 are meaningless and that draft quality may be an effect rather than causal.

The article is interesting because it labels the Broncos and Lions as "winners" in this years draft, which is not a popular position...

 
I made it to this line before the author lost all credibility...

Belichick disciple Josh McDaniels, now coaching the Broncos, clearly has taken a page from the master. His team, and the Lions, are probably rebuilding next year, and they are off to a great start.

 
I made it to this line before the author lost all credibility...Belichick disciple Josh McDaniels, now coaching the Broncos, clearly has taken a page from the master. His team, and the Lions, are probably rebuilding next year, and they are off to a great start.
:tumbleweed: Its puzzling when some people don't see an obvious Parcells type housecleaning happening. It just happened in Miami last year, but Parcells is more skilled with dealing with the media than young McDaniels....
 
Interesting that the 2007 and 2008 losers of the draft went 18-1 in 2007 and were the favorites to win the 2008-2009 Super Bowl until a season ending injury to their all-world quarterback. You can't look at the draft in a vacuum. This system also does not factor in draft picks traded for players before the draft.

 
I love it. New England wanted Harvin and only moved down after Minnesota took him. New England makes that pick and no doubt the media would praise Belichick as a genius. Minnesota makes the same pick and they lost in the first round. You can't tell me that New England wouldn't take a player with character concern like Harvin since they took a Tate who also failed a drug test at combine.

I don’t doubt that New England got good players on the cheap but at the same time maybe they failed to get a real difference maker. Moving down to get Chad Jackson looked like a wise move a couple years ago. It doesn't look so great now. Handing out draft grade on day one is interesting exercise but means little. IMO, New England was a super bowl contender long before even this draft took place.
Has there been any admission by BB that Harvin was targetted? He was popular choice among some fans, but I haven't seen anything from the front office on that(?).Agree that draft grades on day 1 are meaningless and that draft quality may be an effect rather than causal.

The article is interesting because it labels the Broncos and Lions as "winners" in this years draft, which is not a popular position...
Harvin to New England ?What hat did you pull this out of ?

:goodposting:

 
I love it. New England wanted Harvin and only moved down after Minnesota took him. New England makes that pick and no doubt the media would praise Belichick as a genius. Minnesota makes the same pick and they lost in the first round. You can't tell me that New England wouldn't take a player with character concern like Harvin since they took a Tate who also failed a drug test at combine.

I don’t doubt that New England got good players on the cheap but at the same time maybe they failed to get a real difference maker. Moving down to get Chad Jackson looked like a wise move a couple years ago. It doesn't look so great now. Handing out draft grade on day one is interesting exercise but means little. IMO, New England was a super bowl contender long before even this draft took place.
Has there been any admission by BB that Harvin was targetted? He was popular choice among some fans, but I haven't seen anything from the front office on that(?).Agree that draft grades on day 1 are meaningless and that draft quality may be an effect rather than causal.

The article is interesting because it labels the Broncos and Lions as "winners" in this years draft, which is not a popular position...
Harvin to New England ?What hat did you pull this out of ?

:lmao:
 
They argue that having stars are bad because you have to pay them. That doesn't make any sense. The ultimate team, according to Massey and Thaler, would go 9-7 and spend half the salary cap. That team would produce the most wins per $$ spent.

But in the NFL, the different between winning and losing is really small, *AND* the difference (in result) between winning and losing is enormous. That is, losing by 1 point in the playoffs is really bad. NFL teams aren't awarded fractions of wins and fractions of Super Bowls. It's a winner take all environment. So getting the most efficient players isn't necessarily the best thing. Getting the best players in the best thing. Adrian Peterson may not be twice as talented as Willie Parker, but he's worth a lot more than twice the money.

There are a finite number of roster spots in the NFL -- you can't get two players that are half as good for 1/4 of the price and think you're making out. NFL players aren't bricklayers.

Anyway, as far as this actual writeup, it's bad. It claims that the actual players selected at each spot are irrelevant. Just having a bunch of second round picks, regardless of who you take, determines who the good teams are.

 
I love it. New England wanted Harvin and only moved down after Minnesota took him.
who's your source on that --- childress?? :confused: :lmao:for those others asking about this, there was a little article in some minny paper quoting childress bragging about how he outfoxed belichick.let me ask you a simple question, donny --- maybe you've got the answer to that one, too:since it was widely known weeks before the draft that childress wanted harvin, and belichick wanted harvin, and belichick picks AFTER childress, AND belichick is loaded w/picks......do you see where that's going?anyway, I found the article a little confusing as the guy seems to imply that you just get raw points per pick, and he doesn't seem to cook it down into any kind of index, which would naturally lead to a team w/4 seconds and 4 thirds 'winning' the draft.also, since most of these guys have minimal impact their first years, I think it's a crock.
 
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I love it. New England wanted Harvin and only moved down after Minnesota took him. New England makes that pick and no doubt the media would praise Belichick as a genius. Minnesota makes the same pick and they lost in the first round. You can't tell me that New England wouldn't take a player with character concern like Harvin since they took a Tate who also failed a drug test at combine.

I don't doubt that New England got good players on the cheap but at the same time maybe they failed to get a real difference maker. Moving down to get Chad Jackson looked like a wise move a couple years ago. It doesn't look so great now. Handing out draft grade on day one is interesting exercise but means little. IMO, New England was a super bowl contender long before even this draft took place.
Has there been any admission by BB that Harvin was targetted? He was popular choice among some fans, but I haven't seen anything from the front office on that(?).Agree that draft grades on day 1 are meaningless and that draft quality may be an effect rather than causal.

The article is interesting because it labels the Broncos and Lions as "winners" in this years draft, which is not a popular position...
Harvin to New England ?What hat did you pull this out of ?

:mellow:
http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/...KUnciaec8O7EyUr
 
I love it. New England wanted Harvin and only moved down after Minnesota took him.
who's your source on that --- childress?? :popcorn: :unsure:
:censored: Depends on who you believe. I trust Childress a little more than little Bill. Can you trust anyting little Bill says after Spygate?
yes.and you still haven't answered my question.what I trust more than either one of them is common sense.how tall is bb, anyway?
 
-baller said:
Donnybrook said:
I love it. New England wanted Harvin and only moved down after Minnesota took him.
who's your source on that --- childress?? :lmao: :lmao:
:hophead: Depends on who you believe. I trust Childress a little more than little Bill. Can you trust anyting little Bill says after Spygate?
yes.and you still haven't answered my question.

what I trust more than either one of them is common sense.

how tall is bb, anyway?
Hey guys, come on now...this wasn't the first time Childress has beaten Billy. We got Garrett Mills! Childress always gets his man.
 
haha....at least some of you guys have a sense of humor.

check this comment from the linked story:

I mean, what's up with the constant competition vs. bill belicheat, who say what you will about him, WINS. Why is chilly always crowing about how he pulled off some mastermind kungfu action to thwart the patriots, who barely realize we exist?

 
haha....at least some of you guys have a sense of humor.

check this comment from the linked story:

I mean, what's up with the constant competition vs. bill belicheat, who say what you will about him, WINS. Why is chilly always crowing about how he pulled off some mastermind kungfu action to thwart the patriots, who barely realize we exist?
"mastermind kungfu action" :coffee:

 

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