NFL says "I'm Sorry" (1 Viewer)

[GoRaiders]

So can we now say that this guy GoRaiders and the premise for his entire thread is

Jeez what a putz

One good thing to come out of this farce of a thread was Stinkin Ref. I liked how he weighed in on how officials will sometimes use discretion / latitude when enforcing the rules. I, for one, appreciated his input.

Good job Stinkin Ref

Biggie Putz,Here is your link proving the premise for this thread is valid.

http://www.insidebayarea.com/raiders/ci_3045435

As mentioned in the article the letter from the NFL is confidential, so keep trying to google it, but you won't find it. As my original post mentioned, I heard this on local radio. You can choose not to believe I actually heard this on the radio, or you can choose not to believe Lee Hamiltion, the guy on the radio (just like you chose not to believe stinkin ref).

On holding at the point of attack issue you really need to let go of the NFL digest of rules. What stinkin ref stated is correct and is in the NFL official rulebook. Still don't believe it? Well spend the $10 buy the book yourself and prove it otherwise.

 

[Big Score]

Raider fans are either:

1. Thugs

2. Crybabies (as evidenced by this thread)

3. White trash

4. All of the above.

 

[Big Score]

Biggie Putz,

Here is your link proving the premise for this thread is valid.

http://www.insidebayarea.com/raiders/ci_3045435

As mentioned in the article the letter from the NFL is confidential, so keep trying to google it, but you won't find it. As my original post mentioned, I heard this on local radio. You can choose not to believe I actually heard this on the radio, or you can choose not to believe Lee Hamiltion, the guy on the radio (just like you chose not to believe stinkin ref).

On holding at the point of attack issue you really need to let go of the NFL digest of rules. What stinkin ref stated is correct and is in the NFL official rulebook. Still don't believe it? Well spend the $10 buy the book yourself and prove it otherwise.

No offense GoRaiders, but the premise of your thread was that the NFL had issued a formal apology to the Raiders. Nowhere in the link you've provided, do I see a formal official apology from the NFL. I do see reference to a confidential document, but that's it. It does tell us that the NFL responded to the Raiders, but we don't know the response was.

I'll betcha this Lee Hamilton guy got wind of the Raiders lodging a formal complaint with the NFL and might've exercised a little creative homer journalism. If in fact the confidential letter was indeed a formal apology from the NFL that he had somehow gotten his hands on, it'd be all over the major sports networks by now.

BTW, Stinkin Ref never stated that there is a rule that overrules the holding rules. Jules is the one who said that.

And it seems like he might have gotten his wires crossed, since it's word for word, section for section, from the NAFL rule book.

 

[Noahs Troopers]

So GoRaiders, do you admit this is fabricated? Not saying you fabricated it, but Lee "Hacksaw" Hamilton has zero credibility in case you hadn't heard.

 

[HULLOBUDMAN]

Biggie Putz,

Here is your link proving the premise for this thread is valid.

http://www.insidebayarea.com/raiders/ci_3045435

As mentioned in the article the letter from the NFL is confidential, so keep trying to google it, but you won't find it.  As my original post mentioned, I heard this on local radio.  You can choose not to believe I actually heard this on the radio, or you can choose not to believe Lee Hamiltion, the guy on the radio (just like you chose not to believe stinkin ref).

On holding at the point of attack issue you really need to let go of the NFL digest of rules.  What stinkin ref stated is correct and is in the NFL official rulebook.  Still don't believe it?  Well spend the $10 buy the book yourself and prove it otherwise.

No offense GoRaiders, but the premise of your thread was that the NFL had issued a formal apology to the Raiders. Nowhere in the link you've provided, do I see a formal official apology from the NFL. I do see reference to a confidential document, but that's it. It does tell us that the NFL responded to the Raiders, but we don't know the response was.

I'll betcha this Lee Hamilton guy got wind of the Raiders lodging a formal complaint with the NFL and might've exercised a little creative homer journalism. If in fact the confidential letter was indeed a formal apology from the NFL that he had somehow gotten his hands on, it'd be all over the major sports networks by now.

BTW, Stinkin Ref never stated that there is a rule that overrules the holding rules. Jules is the one who said that.

And it seems like he might have gotten his wires crossed, since it's word for word, section for section, from the NAFL rule book.

As Big Score said here there is no mention that there was a formal apology issued. I believe you heard some jack meat on the radio speculate there was an apolgy made but there still is no evidence.

 

[Al Davis]

This thread reveals the source of my ulcers.

 

[Big Score]

This thread reveals the source of my ulcers.

 

[PosterNutBag]

This thread reveals the source of my ulcers.

I 2nd that. I have both Collins and Jordan on my team. I lost last week by 2 pts. I am 0-2 after 2 weeks despite being the #2 scoring team in week 1 and week 2 in a 12 team league. That's right. I played the highest scoring team in each week. If I played every team, every week, I would be a combined 20-2 after two weeks, but instead I am 0-2.So if you think you have ulcers, imagine my heart attack after watching the final nail in my coffin (the Jordan run get called back) after almost getting over the Moss TD getting called back.

No reason to panic, though. My team is very solid and I will make the playoffs. I have never seen bad luck like this before and it is happening to me. Hopefully I am getting it out of my system early.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

Perhaps what I'm looking at is incomplete?

I would think that the "NFL fans Digest of Rules" is not as complete as the NFL rule book...

Probably so....yet it does list exceptions.Right now all we have to go is that, from the Official Site of the NFL, or Jules word.

Not specifically calling Jules out, but I know which source I currently put more stock in. How about you?

Actually it does sound like a call out.Right here in front of me is the 2005 Official Playing Rules of the National Football League from Paul Tagliabue, Commisioner.

It is edited by Larry Upson who is director of Officiating Operations.

I also have in front of me the 2005 Football Rules Test

Section 1: Field

Section 2: Ball

Section 3: Definitions

Section 4: Game Timing

Section 5: Players, Substitutions, Equipment

Etc...

I don't know what more to say guys. This was given to me by an NFL Official who I have know for many years.

 

[Good Posting!]

This thread reveals the source of my ulcers.

 

[Gamblor]

Perhaps what I'm looking at is incomplete?

I would think that the "NFL fans Digest of Rules" is not as complete as the NFL rule book...

Probably so....yet it does list exceptions.Right now all we have to go is that, from the Official Site of the NFL, or Jules word.

Not specifically calling Jules out, but I know which source I currently put more stock in. How about you?

Actually it does sound like a call out.Right here in front of me is the 2005 Official Playing Rules of the National Football League from Paul Tagliabue, Commisioner.

It is edited by Larry Upson who is director of Officiating Operations.

I also have in front of me the 2005 Football Rules Test

Section 1: Field

Section 2: Ball

Section 3: Definitions

Section 4: Game Timing

Section 5: Players, Substitutions, Equipment

Etc...

I don't know what more to say guys. This was given to me by an NFL Official who I have know for many years.

Im on your side Jules... I obviously dont know you, but at the same time I dont have any idea why you might be inclined to make it up. Especially since I found the same rules for the NAFA - I have to think that they copied their rules from the NFL...

 

[Jules Winnfield]

One of the questions on the test:QBA1 hands off to back A2 at the A32. A2 runs to the A39 where he fumbles the ball. B1 recovers the ball at A41 and runs to the A4 where he fumbles the ball out of bounds at the A3. During A2's fumble A7 clipped B7 at the 40.What is the call?

 

[ELI2TYREE]

Not that I dont trust the NFL site, but that I dont believe that because something is not mentioned - that it doesn't exist. (at least in the context of this issue)

What has me doubting this rule that overrules rules, is the following three things;#1) I've seen holding called away from the play, or "point of attack", in just about every game that I've watched, over the past 20+ years. Why aren't the the Refs aware of this rule that overrules rules?

#2) With all the cutbacks that we see RB's do in every game, unless the Refs are getting the play radioed into them by the offensive play caller, how do they realllly know, what the "point of attack" is? The answer is....they can't know!

#3) Even though the link to the rules in this thread is a dumbed down and abbreviated version, exceptions are listed. However the rule that overrules the rule, is not mentioned.

I second this posting. No offense, but Nothing here in this thread is proof otherwise to what Big Score and I have said. The fact remains that holding is continually called away from the play in every game in the NFL, so no amount of saying I have the rule here in my hand will ever convince me, unless you can provide a link or verifiable source that is foolproof. The fact that NAFA rules were cited to the letter as actual NFL rules makes me even more skeptical of this so called "rule" that overules the holding rule. Sorry...

 

[ELI2TYREE]

Okay - I've done some Google searches for "Holding away from point of attack" and various other terms, and I've come to the conclusion that we're both right. Its NOT a rule, or an Exception to a Rule that you will find stated in the rulebook. it is, I believe, an interpretive discussion for Refs as to how to apply the holding rule as the action of the play unfolds. This I understand, as my Dad is a basketball ref, and he often has to make rule interpretations/subjective decisions on the fly (like on charges, etc). What they are saying is that holding could be called on every play, but that it should not ALWAYS be called, but only be called under a certain set of circumstances - of which there are very many. Such as: Is it away from the action, is the defnsive player put at a disadvantage, or is he prone to injury by the infraction, etc...etc... a multitude of things that must go through the mind of the ref all in a matter of seconds...

Here's a link that discussed the application of the rules (not NFL per se, but it gives an idea of what they probably teach and direct the NFl refs as well):

http://www.nflhs.com/TipsDrills/Officiatin...07282000_db.asp

Also here's an article that cites how NFL 'gets it right" on holding:

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2003/08/29...9_035_55_26.txt

There is probably more out there, but at least now I can understand how the refs calls seem so haphazard now... there seems to be a whole legion of checklist that go off in their brains as they watch a holding infraction and determine whehter to call it or not... though this does NOT overrule that holding rule in any way - it is simply a mean of interpretation.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

Its NOT a rule, or an Exception to a Rule that you will find stated in the rulebook. it is,

Actually it is found in the Official NFL Rulebook 2005.I will scan the page and put it on here so we can all settle this matter once and for all. I just need a day away from work when I can do this.

 

[GoRaiders]

Its NOT a rule, or an Exception to a Rule that you will find stated in the rulebook. it is,

Actually it is found in the Official NFL Rulebook 2005.I will scan the page and put it on here so we can all settle this matter once and for all. I just need a day away from work when I can do this.

Jules, please and thank you on the scan.

 

[ELI2TYREE]

Its NOT a rule, or an Exception to a Rule that you will find stated in the rulebook. it is,

Actually it is found in the Official NFL Rulebook 2005.I will scan the page and put it on here so we can all settle this matter once and for all. I just need a day away from work when I can do this.

That would be cool! I stated it that way, because as of yet, for me, there is no "proof" from the rulebook itself. I await the scan.Good stuff.