NFL steered Vick to Eagles? (1 Viewer)

[renesauz]

Possible conversation:

COM: So Mike, teams are talking to you abot deals, right?

MV: Yeah, nothing's done yet, but we're talking.

COM: Any idea where you wanna go?

MV: WEll, I wanna play. Cincy and Bffalo make the most sense.

COM: Everyone wants to play, but I don't know that stepping right into a starting job under that kind of pressure is gonna be good for either you or the league. We're gonna take a huge PR hit simply letting you back into the league. You're going to be over-analyzed and criticized at every turn. Might be better for all of us if you took a lower profile job for a year or two with a stronger team. Anyone else talking to you?

MV: Philly called.

COM: Good, at least hear them out. Now, about next week's press conferance......

This is exactly the kind of conversation the commish SHOULD have been having with Michaal Vick.

 

[GroveDiesel]

I think the NFL did the right thing. He needed to take a step back and play for a good coach as opposed to just jumping right into a more unstable organization where he would immediately be the starter. It also helped create one hell of a QB which I'm fairly certain wouldn't have happened elsewhere.

wat? "Stable" and "unstable" are all opinions. The NFL shoudlnt' be steering players to any particular franchises. If the commissioner is telling or even suggesting to players where they should go, it is a conflict of interest and totally corrupts the integrity of the league. Goodell should step down if this is true.

Technically, I guess, it is an opinion, but is there a person on the face of the earth that holds the opinion that Buffalo or Cincy is a more stable franchise than Philly?

Philly? You mean the organization with the head coach whose two sons are both drug addicts/dealers? Where the fans can turn on you in a second and destroy any player? Where the current starting QB that was similar to Vick had a terrible relationship with his coach and fans? There are plenty of reasons why Philly wasn't "stable."

:unhinged:

You tell me what part of that is wrong.

 

[Insein]

I think the NFL did the right thing. He needed to take a step back and play for a good coach as opposed to just jumping right into a more unstable organization where he would immediately be the starter. It also helped create one hell of a QB which I'm fairly certain wouldn't have happened elsewhere.

wat? "Stable" and "unstable" are all opinions. The NFL shoudlnt' be steering players to any particular franchises. If the commissioner is telling or even suggesting to players where they should go, it is a conflict of interest and totally corrupts the integrity of the league. Goodell should step down if this is true.

Technically, I guess, it is an opinion, but is there a person on the face of the earth that holds the opinion that Buffalo or Cincy is a more stable franchise than Philly?

Philly? You mean the organization with the head coach whose two sons are both drug addicts/dealers? Where the fans can turn on you in a second and destroy any player? Where the current starting QB that was similar to Vick had a terrible relationship with his coach and fans? There are plenty of reasons why Philly wasn't "stable."

:unhinged:

You tell me what part of that is wrong.

Those parts. Plus the first while true has nothing to do with football. So irrellevant to stability.

 

[by_the_sea_wannabe]

I think the NFL did the right thing. He needed to take a step back and play for a good coach as opposed to just jumping right into a more unstable organization where he would immediately be the starter. It also helped create one hell of a QB which I'm fairly certain wouldn't have happened elsewhere.

wat? "Stable" and "unstable" are all opinions. The NFL shoudlnt' be steering players to any particular franchises. If the commissioner is telling or even suggesting to players where they should go, it is a conflict of interest and totally corrupts the integrity of the league. Goodell should step down if this is true.

Technically, I guess, it is an opinion, but is there a person on the face of the earth that holds the opinion that Buffalo or Cincy is a more stable franchise than Philly?

Philly? You mean the organization with the head coach whose two sons are both drug addicts/dealers? Where the fans can turn on you in a second and destroy any player? Where the current starting QB that was similar to Vick had a terrible relationship with his coach and fans? There are plenty of reasons why Philly wasn't "stable."

:unhinged:

You tell me what part of that is wrong.

the part where you try to argue Buffalo is a more stable franchise than the Eagles.11 Wade Phillips 1998–2000 48 29 19 0 .604 2 0 2 [20]

12 Gregg Williams 2001–2003 48 17 31 0 .354 – – – [21]

13 Mike Mularkey 2004–2005 32 14 18 0 .438 – – – [22]

14 **** Jauron 2006–2009 57 24 33 0 .421 – – – [23]

15 Perry Fewell 2009 7 3 4 0 .429 – – – [24]

16 Chan Gailey 2010-Present 16 4 12 0 .250 – – – [25

Season(s) Quarterback(s)

2010 Ryan Fitzpatrick (13) / Trent Edwards (2) / Brian Brohm (1)

2009 Ryan Fitzpatrick (8) / Trent Edwards (7) / Brian Brohm (1)

2008 Trent Edwards (14) / J.P. Losman (2)

2007 Trent Edwards (9) / J.P. Losman (7)

2006 J.P. Losman (16)

2005 J.P. Losman (8) / Kelly Holcomb (8)

2004 Drew Bledsoe (16)

2003 Drew Bledsoe (16)

2002 Drew Bledsoe (16)

2001 Alex Van Pelt (8) / Rob Johnson (8)

2000 Rob Johnson (11) / Doug Flutie (5)

1999 Doug Flutie (15) / Rob Johnson (1)

1998 Doug Flutie (10) / Rob Johnson (6)

1997 Todd Collins (13) / Alex Van Pelt (3)

Season(s) Quarterback(s)

2010 Michael Vick (11) / Kevin Kolb (5)

2009 Donovan McNabb (14) / Kevin Kolb (2) / Michael Vick (1)[a]

2008 Donovan McNabb (16)

2007 Donovan McNabb (14) / A. J. Feeley (2)

2006 Donovan McNabb (10) / Jeff Garcia (6)

2005 Donovan McNabb (9) / Mike McMahon (7)

2004 Donovan McNabb (15) / Koy Detmer (1)

2003 Donovan McNabb (16)

2002 Donovan McNabb (10) / A. J. Feeley (5) / Koy Detmer (1)

2001 Donovan McNabb (16)

2000 Donovan McNabb (16)

20 Andy Reid 1999–present 192 118 73 1 .618 19 10 9 AP Coach of the Year (2002)

Pro Football Weekly Coach of the Year (2002)

Sporting News Coach of the Year (2000, 2002)[9] [32

Then there is the records of both teams in the past dozen years. Simply put - the bills since the super bowls are a joke. The Eagles are competitive year in and year out. Not even in the same class. The Bills are in the same class the Bengals. Sorry guy. Your franchise has become a joke.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Cinci and Buffalo have no one to blame but themselves. Actually...I understand why Bills fans might be upset but since their SB run in he early 90s that team has sunk further and further. Their owner is known as a tightwad at this point and I don't think there is a team in the NFL that would hire their present GM. Don't downplay the role Tony Dungy might have had as well. He was mentoring Vick, which so far seems to have taken well. I'm sure Dungy told him it would be ideal f he eased himself back into the league slowly. Michael Vick is a great story of realization of his mistakes, and then making better decisions moving forward. He paid his debt, he humbled himself by getting water for McNabb over a season, backing up Kolb initially and then finally seizing the job and showing us things we have never seen before.

Does Dungy work for the NFL front office? If not, what you've said here is completely irrelevant. This is what the article says:1. Vick wanted to go to Cincy or Buffalo.2. He met with Goodell and other league officials.3. After that meeting he decided to go to Philadelphia.4. Vick credits Goodell and other league officials with his change of heart.If you don't see the problem with that, I don't know what to tell you, other than to guess that you're probably an Eagles fan.

TF, I was stating that Dungy was mentoring Vick along with a lot of input from Goodell. That's pretty factual, don't need to read what is or isn't in that article. I don't even understand the question of Does Dungy...he represents the NFL and is a very charismatic man off the field. Do you believe everything verbatim that you read? If you can't think for yourself some of the time, I don't know what to tell you either.

 

[GroveDiesel]

I think the NFL did the right thing. He needed to take a step back and play for a good coach as opposed to just jumping right into a more unstable organization where he would immediately be the starter. It also helped create one hell of a QB which I'm fairly certain wouldn't have happened elsewhere.

wat? "Stable" and "unstable" are all opinions. The NFL shoudlnt' be steering players to any particular franchises. If the commissioner is telling or even suggesting to players where they should go, it is a conflict of interest and totally corrupts the integrity of the league. Goodell should step down if this is true.

Technically, I guess, it is an opinion, but is there a person on the face of the earth that holds the opinion that Buffalo or Cincy is a more stable franchise than Philly?

Philly? You mean the organization with the head coach whose two sons are both drug addicts/dealers? Where the fans can turn on you in a second and destroy any player? Where the current starting QB that was similar to Vick had a terrible relationship with his coach and fans? There are plenty of reasons why Philly wasn't "stable."

:unhinged:

You tell me what part of that is wrong.

the part where you try to argue Buffalo is a more stable franchise than the Eagles.11 Wade Phillips 1998–2000 48 29 19 0 .604 2 0 2 [20]

12 Gregg Williams 2001–2003 48 17 31 0 .354 – – – [21]

13 Mike Mularkey 2004–2005 32 14 18 0 .438 – – – [22]

14 **** Jauron 2006–2009 57 24 33 0 .421 – – – [23]

15 Perry Fewell 2009 7 3 4 0 .429 – – – [24]

16 Chan Gailey 2010-Present 16 4 12 0 .250 – – – [25

Season(s) Quarterback(s)

2010 Ryan Fitzpatrick (13) / Trent Edwards (2) / Brian Brohm (1)

2009 Ryan Fitzpatrick (8) / Trent Edwards (7) / Brian Brohm (1)

2008 Trent Edwards (14) / J.P. Losman (2)

2007 Trent Edwards (9) / J.P. Losman (7)

2006 J.P. Losman (16)

2005 J.P. Losman (8) / Kelly Holcomb (8)

2004 Drew Bledsoe (16)

2003 Drew Bledsoe (16)

2002 Drew Bledsoe (16)

2001 Alex Van Pelt (8) / Rob Johnson (8)

2000 Rob Johnson (11) / Doug Flutie (5)

1999 Doug Flutie (15) / Rob Johnson (1)

1998 Doug Flutie (10) / Rob Johnson (6)

1997 Todd Collins (13) / Alex Van Pelt (3)

Season(s) Quarterback(s)

2010 Michael Vick (11) / Kevin Kolb (5)

2009 Donovan McNabb (14) / Kevin Kolb (2) / Michael Vick (1)[a]

2008 Donovan McNabb (16)

2007 Donovan McNabb (14) / A. J. Feeley (2)

2006 Donovan McNabb (10) / Jeff Garcia (6)

2005 Donovan McNabb (9) / Mike McMahon (7)

2004 Donovan McNabb (15) / Koy Detmer (1)

2003 Donovan McNabb (16)

2002 Donovan McNabb (10) / A. J. Feeley (5) / Koy Detmer (1)

2001 Donovan McNabb (16)

2000 Donovan McNabb (16)

20 Andy Reid 1999–present 192 118 73 1 .618 19 10 9 AP Coach of the Year (2002)

Pro Football Weekly Coach of the Year (2002)

Sporting News Coach of the Year (2000, 2002)[9] [32

Then there is the records of both teams in the past dozen years. Simply put - the bills since the super bowls are a joke. The Eagles are competitive year in and year out. Not even in the same class. The Bills are in the same class the Bengals. Sorry guy. Your franchise has become a joke.

Yet, you conveniently ignore all of my arguments that demonstrate that there are legitimate reasons for saying that there are stability issues in Philly. Everything I listed was a completely legitimate reason for arguing that Philly has issues too. Sure, there are plenty of reasons to argue that Philly is the more stable franchise, and they probably are. If I had to make a call on it, I'd say that they're more stable right now too. Mostly because Buffalo's market just can't support a team all that well anymore and there is a decent chance that the team could be moved to another market. But there ARE arguments to the contrary and the Commissioner of the NFL is wrong to get involved in that conversation. He stepped over the line by recommending one team over another. The Commish simply CAN NOT play favorites in any way. Anyone that thinks otherwise should be kicked out of any fantasy league that they're in. Funny that so many Eagles fans are bragging about the stability of their franchise and how great they are in this thread. Wonder how many of you nod your head everytime you listen to the local sports radio when they rip Andy Reid and Jeffrey Laurie as soon as the team chokes in the playoffs each year. Wonder how many have nodded their head when callers scream for the ousting of Andy Reid? Wonder how many ripped McNabb continually for being a choker and throwing all those worm burners?

Sure, I'd rather the Bills have the winning percentage of the Eagles over the last decade, but guess what? They both have won the same exact number of Super Bowls.

 

[cheese]

Possible conversation:COM: So Mike, teams are talking to you abot deals, right?MV: Yeah, nothing's done yet, but we're talking.COM: Any idea where you wanna go?MV: WEll, I wanna play. Cincy and Bffalo make the most sense.COM: Everyone wants to play, but I don't know that stepping right into a starting job under that kind of pressure is gonna be good for either you or the league. We're gonna take a huge PR hit simply letting you back into the league. You're going to be over-analyzed and criticized at every turn. Might be better for all of us if you took a lower profile job for a year or two with a stronger team. Anyone else talking to you?MV: Philly called.COM: Good, at least hear them out. Now, about next week's press conferance......This is exactly the kind of conversation the commish SHOULD have been having with Michaal Vick.

And why do you think he listened to Goddell in his situation at the time?

 

[GroveDiesel]

Cinci and Buffalo have no one to blame but themselves. Actually...I understand why Bills fans might be upset but since their SB run in he early 90s that team has sunk further and further. Their owner is known as a tightwad at this point and I don't think there is a team in the NFL that would hire their present GM.

The Miami Dolphins have exactly 1 more playoff win than the Bills since 2000. Congrats to that outstanding organization for showing the league just how to do things right. They showed that they really knew what they were doing when they paid Bill Parcells to come collect a paycheck for a few years before laughing all the way to retirement with his guaranteed paycheck. Well run ship there. But hey, the Bills have had a rough decade. Let's just write them off and contract them. Screw those fans.

 

[CentralPA]

I think the NFL did the right thing. He needed to take a step back and play for a good coach as opposed to just jumping right into a more unstable organization where he would immediately be the starter. It also helped create one hell of a QB which I'm fairly certain wouldn't have happened elsewhere.

wat? "Stable" and "unstable" are all opinions. The NFL shoudlnt' be steering players to any particular franchises. If the commissioner is telling or even suggesting to players where they should go, it is a conflict of interest and totally corrupts the integrity of the league. Goodell should step down if this is true.

Technically, I guess, it is an opinion, but is there a person on the face of the earth that holds the opinion that Buffalo or Cincy is a more stable franchise than Philly?

Philly? You mean the organization with the head coach whose two sons are both drug addicts/dealers? Where the fans can turn on you in a second and destroy any player? Where the current starting QB that was similar to Vick had a terrible relationship with his coach and fans? There are plenty of reasons why Philly wasn't "stable."

:unhinged:

You tell me what part of that is wrong.

the part where you try to argue Buffalo is a more stable franchise than the Eagles.11 Wade Phillips 19982000 48 29 19 0 .604 2 0 2 [20]

12 Gregg Williams 20012003 48 17 31 0 .354 [21]

13 Mike Mularkey 20042005 32 14 18 0 .438 [22]

14 **** Jauron 20062009 57 24 33 0 .421 [23]

15 Perry Fewell 2009 7 3 4 0 .429 [24]

16 Chan Gailey 2010-Present 16 4 12 0 .250 [25

Season(s) Quarterback(s)

2010 Ryan Fitzpatrick (13) / Trent Edwards (2) / Brian Brohm (1)

2009 Ryan Fitzpatrick (8) / Trent Edwards (7) / Brian Brohm (1)

2008 Trent Edwards (14) / J.P. Losman (2)

2007 Trent Edwards (9) / J.P. Losman (7)

2006 J.P. Losman (16)

2005 J.P. Losman (8) / Kelly Holcomb (8)

2004 Drew Bledsoe (16)

2003 Drew Bledsoe (16)

2002 Drew Bledsoe (16)

2001 Alex Van Pelt (8) / Rob Johnson (8)

2000 Rob Johnson (11) / Doug Flutie (5)

1999 Doug Flutie (15) / Rob Johnson (1)

1998 Doug Flutie (10) / Rob Johnson (6)

1997 Todd Collins (13) / Alex Van Pelt (3)

Season(s) Quarterback(s)

2010 Michael Vick (11) / Kevin Kolb (5)

2009 Donovan McNabb (14) / Kevin Kolb (2) / Michael Vick (1)[a]

2008 Donovan McNabb (16)

2007 Donovan McNabb (14) / A. J. Feeley (2)

2006 Donovan McNabb (10) / Jeff Garcia (6)

2005 Donovan McNabb (9) / Mike McMahon (7)

2004 Donovan McNabb (15) / Koy Detmer (1)

2003 Donovan McNabb (16)

2002 Donovan McNabb (10) / A. J. Feeley (5) / Koy Detmer (1)

2001 Donovan McNabb (16)

2000 Donovan McNabb (16)

20 Andy Reid 1999present 192 118 73 1 .618 19 10 9 AP Coach of the Year (2002)

Pro Football Weekly Coach of the Year (2002)

Sporting News Coach of the Year (2000, 2002)[9] [32

Then there is the records of both teams in the past dozen years. Simply put - the bills since the super bowls are a joke. The Eagles are competitive year in and year out. Not even in the same class. The Bills are in the same class the Bengals. Sorry guy. Your franchise has become a joke.

Yet, you conveniently ignore all of my arguments that demonstrate that there are legitimate reasons for saying that there are stability issues in Philly. Everything I listed was a completely legitimate reason for arguing that Philly has issues too. Sure, there are plenty of reasons to argue that Philly is the more stable franchise, and they probably are. If I had to make a call on it, I'd say that they're more stable right now too. Mostly because Buffalo's market just can't support a team all that well anymore and there is a decent chance that the team could be moved to another market. But there ARE arguments to the contrary and the Commissioner of the NFL is wrong to get involved in that conversation. He stepped over the line by recommending one team over another. The Commish simply CAN NOT play favorites in any way. Anyone that thinks otherwise should be kicked out of any fantasy league that they're in. Funny that so many Eagles fans are bragging about the stability of their franchise and how great they are in this thread. Wonder how many of you nod your head everytime you listen to the local sports radio when they rip Andy Reid and Jeffrey Laurie as soon as the team chokes in the playoffs each year. Wonder how many have nodded their head when callers scream for the ousting of Andy Reid? Wonder how many ripped McNabb continually for being a choker and throwing all those worm burners?

Sure, I'd rather the Bills have the winning percentage of the Eagles over the last decade, but guess what? They both have won the same exact number of Super Bowls.

I'd reeally like to see where all this bragging is about that you are talking about. I'm not going to say that you are dead wrong about Eagles fans. I listen to WIP (Philly sports radio) and hear idiot Eagles fans complain about the dumbest things yet they have no idea how good they have it. Most intelligent Philly fans realize Andy Reid is a very very good coach that has had some mis-fortune. He's also made some mistakes (i.e. on the field decisions, clock management) but for the most part Eagles fans don't want to get rid of him. McNabb was one of the best if not the best franchise QBs but unfortunately they couldn't win the big one. You want to sit there and tell me no Buffalo fans wanted to hang Marv Levy and Jim Kelly for lose 4 straight Super Bowls? Every franchise in this league has idiot fans including yours.

 

[Touchdown Syndrome]

Cinci and Buffalo have no one to blame but themselves. Actually...I understand why Bills fans might be upset but since their SB run in he early 90s that team has sunk further and further. Their owner is known as a tightwad at this point and I don't think there is a team in the NFL that would hire their present GM.

The Miami Dolphins have exactly 1 more playoff win than the Bills since 2000. Congrats to that outstanding organization for showing the league just how to do things right. They showed that they really knew what they were doing when they paid Bill Parcells to come collect a paycheck for a few years before laughing all the way to retirement with his guaranteed paycheck. Well run ship there. But hey, the Bills have had a rough decade. Let's just write them off and contract them. Screw those fans.

Wow.We get it...you're a cranky Bills fan. Hopefully your team does better in the upcoming years. Literally every team in the NFL has questions with their "stability", by your personal Bills-blinded definition of the word.The Eagles have been one of the most stable teams in the league by all normal, football-related terms. Using Reid's kids as evidence of the "instability" of the Eagles team is pretty low and petty, imo.As far as the football field, the area where the Bills have been a laughingstock in recent years, there is no comparison between the 2 franchises.That's just reality.

 

[GroveDiesel]

It's not his decision on that type of stuff as to what's "best" for the league.

that is exactly what the commish's job is. They change rules every year, give the worst teams the best draft spots and debate franchise numbers and locations all in the interests of what is best for the league.

Yeah, or Vick could have gone to Buffalo, blown up in Chan Gailey's offense, turned around a struggling storied franchise, and saved football in one of the league's smallest markets.

Or, the year before Gailey became HC, he could have been shoved into the starting QB situation and utterly imploding while turning off some of the few fans they have left. I live right by Philly (not an Eagles fan) and they took a crap load of heat from their fans for signing Vick. Had he been forced to start and sucked it would have been much worse- and there was a good chance he would have sucked that first year back.

Few fans they have left? The Bills routinely have one of the highest attendance figures in the NFL. Bills fans were recently ranked the 4th on a list of die hard sports fans across all US teams. This ain't Philly we're talking about where the fans are fickle and just downright mean-spirited. And the contention of some that the Commish's job is to do what's best for the league just don't get it. Maybe what was best for the league was giving one of their smallest markets a chance to compete?

2010 attendance rankings (per ESPN):1)dallas

.

.

12) philly

.

.

.

.

22) Buffalo

I can only find full league figures back to 2006, but according to my calculations, the Eagles had an average of 68,965 fans at each home game. The Bills had an average of 68,721. So congratulations, a team that has a winning percentage significantly higher than the Bills averages about 240 more fans per game in a market that is 4.5 times the size of Buffalo's. How very impressive.

 

[Joe Summer]

I would like to say I was shocked after reading this, but I'm not the least bit surprised. Goodell already has a long track record of interfering with individual team's personnel decisions. This just further cements Goodell as being the worst commish of my lifetime.

Bengals and Bills fans have every right to be infuriated with their owners.

Fixed.If the Bengals and Bills were run by professionals, Goodell wouldn't have hesitated to endorse them.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

I would like to say I was shocked after reading this, but I'm not the least bit surprised. Goodell already has a long track record of interfering with individual team's personnel decisions. This just further cements Goodell as being the worst commish of my lifetime.

Bengals and Bills fans have every right to be infuriated with their owners.

Fixed.If the Bengals and Bills were run by professionals, Goodell wouldn't have hesitated to endorse them.

That has nothing to do with anything. It's not Goodell's job to determine who the best owners are and steer players towards them.

 

[Demian]

It's not his decision on that type of stuff as to what's "best" for the league.

that is exactly what the commish's job is. They change rules every year, give the worst teams the best draft spots and debate franchise numbers and locations all in the interests of what is best for the league.

Yeah, or Vick could have gone to Buffalo, blown up in Chan Gailey's offense, turned around a struggling storied franchise, and saved football in one of the league's smallest markets.

Or, the year before Gailey became HC, he could have been shoved into the starting QB situation and utterly imploding while turning off some of the few fans they have left. I live right by Philly (not an Eagles fan) and they took a crap load of heat from their fans for signing Vick. Had he been forced to start and sucked it would have been much worse- and there was a good chance he would have sucked that first year back.

Few fans they have left? The Bills routinely have one of the highest attendance figures in the NFL. Bills fans were recently ranked the 4th on a list of die hard sports fans across all US teams. This ain't Philly we're talking about where the fans are fickle and just downright mean-spirited. And the contention of some that the Commish's job is to do what's best for the league just don't get it. Maybe what was best for the league was giving one of their smallest markets a chance to compete?

2010 attendance rankings (per ESPN):1)dallas

.

.

12) philly

.

.

.

.

22) Buffalo

I can only find full league figures back to 2006, but according to my calculations, the Eagles had an average of 68,965 fans at each home game. The Bills had an average of 68,721. So congratulations, a team that has a winning percentage significantly higher than the Bills averages about 240 more fans per game in a market that is 4.5 times the size of Buffalo's. How very impressive.

Buffalo Bill stadium capacity: 73,079Philadelphia Eagles stadium capacities:

Linc: 69,144

Vet: 62,000

 

[Godsbrother]

Nothing that Goodell does surprises me anymore. The owners don't seem to have a problem with him so you better get used to it.

 

[Insein]

I can only find full league figures back to 2006, but according to my calculations, the Eagles had an average of 68,965 fans at each home game. The Bills had an average of 68,721. So congratulations, a team that has a winning percentage significantly higher than the Bills averages about 240 more fans per game in a market that is 4.5 times the size of Buffalo's. How very impressive.

Buffalo Bill stadium capacity: 73,079Philadelphia Eagles stadium capacities:

Linc: 69,144

Vet: 62,000

Exactly. If the Eagles had a 100,000 seat stadium, there would still be people on the waiting list for season tickets. Season Ticket Waiting List

Team | Year waiting list was started | Approx. number of names on waiting list | Approx. wait time | Personal Seat License

Philadelphia Eagles | ?? | 71,000 | 15 years | Yes

Buffalo Bills | NA | No waiting list | None | No

 

[dgreen]

I assume this isn't news to Cincy and Buffalo. If either team had entered into serious talks with Vick at the time, I'm guessing they both know (or had a really good idea) that he was advised in some manner to go to Philly.

 

[Jeremy]

Cinci and Buffalo have no one to blame but themselves. Actually...I understand why Bills fans might be upset but since their SB run in he early 90s that team has sunk further and further. Their owner is known as a tightwad at this point and I don't think there is a team in the NFL that would hire their present GM. Don't downplay the role Tony Dungy might have had as well. He was mentoring Vick, which so far seems to have taken well. I'm sure Dungy told him it would be ideal f he eased himself back into the league slowly. Michael Vick is a great story of realization of his mistakes, and then making better decisions moving forward. He paid his debt, he humbled himself by getting water for McNabb over a season, backing up Kolb initially and then finally seizing the job and showing us things we have never seen before.

Does Dungy work for the NFL front office? If not, what you've said here is completely irrelevant. This is what the article says:1. Vick wanted to go to Cincy or Buffalo.2. He met with Goodell and other league officials.3. After that meeting he decided to go to Philadelphia.4. Vick credits Goodell and other league officials with his change of heart.If you don't see the problem with that, I don't know what to tell you, other than to guess that you're probably an Eagles fan.

Unless there was some sort of misunderstanding, this is exactly what the article is saying, and that's extremely concerning. The NFL gave a competitive advantage to one team at the expense of 2 others. Whether he meant to do that or not doesn't really matter. That's what happened. It brings into question his integrity. If he's willing to manipulate this situation "for the good of the Shield" what else might he be willing to manipulate? Gee, it sure would be good for the NFL's ratings if the Cowboys could be successful again? I wonder what we could do to help them?

 

[Abrantes]

As for the author, he was certainly trying to rouse some ire from the fans of Cincy and Buffalo. Its a GQ article so it wasn't his primary reason but the lines about fans should be outraged seem to be a bit too much of his opinion thrown into the interview.

The line about Cincy or Buffalo fans being outraged isn't from the actual GQ article, just a blog weighing in on it. The author gives no reason to believe he's purposefully trying to rile up fans.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Possible conversation:COM: So Mike, teams are talking to you abot deals, right?MV: Yeah, nothing's done yet, but we're talking.COM: Any idea where you wanna go?MV: WEll, I wanna play. Cincy and Bffalo make the most sense.COM: Everyone wants to play, but I don't know that stepping right into a starting job under that kind of pressure is gonna be good for either you or the league. We're gonna take a huge PR hit simply letting you back into the league. You're going to be over-analyzed and criticized at every turn. Might be better for all of us if you took a lower profile job for a year or two with a stronger team. Anyone else talking to you?MV: Philly called.COM: Good, at least hear them out. Now, about next week's press conferance......This is exactly the kind of conversation the commish SHOULD have been having with Michaal Vick.

I could not possibly disagree more. If that's the conversation the Commissioner had he should be fired immediately. Part of his job IMO is to maintain a level playing field as best he can among the 32 teams. And that conversation does the exact opposite.

 

[Dexter Manley]

I would like to say I was shocked after reading this, but I'm not the least bit surprised. Goodell already has a long track record of interfering with individual team's personnel decisions. This just further cements Goodell as being the worst commish of my lifetime.

Bengals and Bills fans have every right to be infuriated with their owners.

Fixed.If the Bengals and Bills were run by professionals, Goodell wouldn't have hesitated to endorse them.

That's not Goodell's job. His job is to run the league, not influence personnel decisions for individual teams. This is one consequence of the abomination that is the peronal conduct policy that I had never thought of before.Using your logic, if the nfl instituted a draft lottery system starting next year, it would be ok for Goodell to rig the lottery so a team he preferred got the overall #1 pick and Andrew Luck.

 

[Joe Summer]

I would like to say I was shocked after reading this, but I'm not the least bit surprised. Goodell already has a long track record of interfering with individual team's personnel decisions. This just further cements Goodell as being the worst commish of my lifetime.

Bengals and Bills fans have every right to be infuriated with their owners.

Fixed.If the Bengals and Bills were run by professionals, Goodell wouldn't have hesitated to endorse them.

That has nothing to do with anything. It's not Goodell's job to determine who the best owners are and steer players towards them.

Yes it is. Goodell has to consider the best interests of the entire NFL. And when it comes to certain sensitive situations -- Michael Vick, PacMan Jones, etc. -- he has every right (and every obligation) to offer his opinion.Now, if Goodell had BLOCKED Vick from signing with Buffalo or Cincinnati, then you'd have a right to complain. But if all he's doing is offering his opinion of what's best for the NFL, then the fans in Buffalo and Cincinnati should be applauding it, not whining about it.

 

[JamesTheScot]

We can't be too hasty here. The article in the OP seems to be purposely inflammatory.

Leitch then points out that Vick met with Roger Goodell and the NFL and was steered towards Philly -- "I commend and thank them, because they put me in the right situation" -- which could seriously fire up those two fanbases, given that having Michael Vick on their respective rosters would certainly change things.

The author is wanting that to happen but the only direct quote given is "they put me in the right situation." Who is they? Is it the league and goodell or is it Tony dungy and his PR entourage? Need to have this clarified before the outrage.

Really? I was under the impression that when something is in quotes and then is followed by the words "Vick tells me," that's a direct quote from Vick. From the article:

"I think I can say this now, because it's not going to hurt anybody's feelings, and it's the truth," Vick tells me a few weeks after the commencement ceremony. "I didn't want to come to Philadelphia. Being the third-team quarterback is nothing to smile about. Cincinnati and Buffalo were better options." Those two teams wanted him and would've allowed him to start, but after meeting with commissioner Roger Goodell and other reps from the NFL, Vick was convinced—and granted league approval—to sign with Philly. "And I commend and thank them, because they put me in the right situation."

I'm just saying. I could be wrong but I'm waiting for the whole interview.

You're just saying what?

The whole article is available. What exactly are you waiting for?

Seems to me that it's pretty clear that: Vick would be in Buffalo or Cincinnati today were it not for the intervention of the Commissioner's office. That's flat out wrong. I don't see the other side of the argument. Every argument made here defending the action is based on the premise that Buffalo and Cincinnati are less desirable destinations. Even if that's true, it's not for the Commissioner to evaluate and act upon. Treating the entire league evenhandedly is pretty much the most important duty he has.

ETA: Also, the author seems to be doing exactly the opposite of what you say. If anything he makes less of a deal of this than he should, concluding that the Commissioner and other NFL reps did in fact put him in the right situation.

All people are saying is that the manner in which Goodell or the league's front office steered Vick to the Eagles hasn't been made clear. Which means that there may be more to the story. The devil is in the details with this sort of thing.Did Goodell look Vick in the eye and say "You need to sign with the Eagles"?

Or did he give Vick a run down about how he wasn't sure about letting Vick back into the league and that Vick had better fly straight on his one and only second chance...which then caused Vick to re-evaluated his wish list and decide on Philly?

In both of those scenarios, Vick might conclude that he had been "steered" towards Philly. But in only one did Goodell actually express a preference for where Vick should sign.

That's why I'm not jumping all over this just yet. I want to hear more about how it actually went down.

But if Goodell blatantly and explicitly conditioned Vick's reinstatement upon signing with Philly to the exclusion of Cincy or Buffalo, then I would see that as dirty pool.

 

[Joe Summer]

I would like to say I was shocked after reading this, but I'm not the least bit surprised. Goodell already has a long track record of interfering with individual team's personnel decisions. This just further cements Goodell as being the worst commish of my lifetime.

Bengals and Bills fans have every right to be infuriated with their owners.

Fixed.If the Bengals and Bills were run by professionals, Goodell wouldn't have hesitated to endorse them.

That's not Goodell's job. His job is to run the league, not influence personnel decisions for individual teams. This is one consequence of the abomination that is the peronal conduct policy that I had never thought of before.Using your logic, if the nfl instituted a draft lottery system starting next year, it would be ok for Goodell to rig the lottery so a team he preferred got the overall #1 pick and Andrew Luck.

That's not my logic at all. That's more like a 12-year-old's interpretation of my logic.My logic is this: Goodell has an obligation to offer his opinion of what's best for the NFL. How you got "rigging the lottery" from that is anyone's guess.

 

[Insein]

As for the author, he was certainly trying to rouse some ire from the fans of Cincy and Buffalo. Its a GQ article so it wasn't his primary reason but the lines about fans should be outraged seem to be a bit too much of his opinion thrown into the interview.

The line about Cincy or Buffalo fans being outraged isn't from the actual GQ article, just a blog weighing in on it. The author gives no reason to believe he's purposefully trying to rile up fans.

Sorry thats what I was refering back to. The OP with the blog post. Got the 2 mixed up.

 

[TobiasFunke]

All people are saying is that the manner in which Goodell or the league's front office steered Vick to the Eagles hasn't been made clear. Which means that there may be more to the story. The devil is in the details with this sort of thing.Did Goodell look Vick in the eye and say "You need to sign with the Eagles"?Or did he give Vick a run down about how he wasn't sure about letting Vick back into the league and that Vick had better fly straight on his one and only second chance...which then caused Vick to re-evaluated his wish list and decide on Philly?In both of those scenarios, Vick might conclude that he had been "steered" towards Philly. But in only one did Goodell actually express a preference for where Vick should sign.That's why I'm not jumping all over this just yet. I want to hear more about how it actually went down.But if Goodell blatantly and explicitly conditioned Vick's reinstatement upon signing with Philly to the exclusion of Cincy or Buffalo, then I would see that as dirty pool.

I'll repost word for word what I said before.

This is what the article says:1. Vick wanted to go to Cincy or Buffalo.2. He met with Goodell and other league officials.3. After that meeting he decided to go to Philadelphia.4. Vick credits Goodell and other league officials with his change of heart.

Nobody disputes any of those things, right?With that in mind, I don't care what happened in #2, which seems to be the "details" you're concerned with. I don't care if Goodell said "go to Philly or you're out of the league" or if he just said "I'm not a fan of hot wings or chili over spaghetti" while discussing lunch options. In either case he is affecting a free agent's decisionmaking process, and therefore he is skewing the playing field, which is IMO the cardinal sin for a league commissioner.I have no problem with a third party consulting with Vick on his decision and helping steer him to what's best for him, even someone recommended to him by the league's front office. But that person should not be a representative of the front office. The fact that Goodell discussed possible destinations with Vick at all doesn't pass the smell test with me personally. But when you add to that the fact that Vick clearly changed his mind as a result of those conversations, I don't even see how there's another side to this.

 

[Dexter Manley]

I would like to say I was shocked after reading this, but I'm not the least bit surprised. Goodell already has a long track record of interfering with individual team's personnel decisions. This just further cements Goodell as being the worst commish of my lifetime.

Bengals and Bills fans have every right to be infuriated with their owners.

Fixed.If the Bengals and Bills were run by professionals, Goodell wouldn't have hesitated to endorse them.

That has nothing to do with anything. It's not Goodell's job to determine who the best owners are and steer players towards them.

Yes it is. Goodell has to consider the best interests of the entire NFL. And when it comes to certain sensitive situations -- Michael Vick, PacMan Jones, etc. -- he has every right (and every obligation) to offer his opinion.Now, if Goodell had BLOCKED Vick from signing with Buffalo or Cincinnati, then you'd have a right to complain. But if all he's doing is offering his opinion of what's best for the NFL, then the fans in Buffalo and Cincinnati should be applauding it, not whining about it.

From Vick's own mouth, that's basically what Goodell did. Think about it. Imagine if you just got out of a 2-3 year stint in prison and are facing a couple years of parole. You know you have to get a job in order to meet the terms of your parole, so you search for and interview for a few jobs. In your job search you find 2 companies, Company A and Company B, that you really want to work for and have job offers from each one. You also have a job offer from Company C, but that job really doesn't appeal to you.

Then you go meet with your parole officer (which would be Goodell in this analogy). You tell him I have job offers, and you've settled on working for either Company A or Company B . He then tells you that you should REALLY consider Company C. That's the company he thinks would be the best one for you to work for, not the others. He STRONGLY suggests you go work for Company C.

Remember this parole officer has complete power over you (like Goodell does over Vick). He can make your life a living hell if he wishes. He can take away your freedom (or in Vick's case his livelihood). Essentially in this analogy, you have the illusion of having a choice, but the reality is that you have to do what your parole officer "suggests" (take Company C's job offer), or you are recklessly putting your future at risk (just like Vick would be if he spurned Goodell's "suggestion to go to Philly.")

 

[CentralPA]

It's not his decision on that type of stuff as to what's "best" for the league.

that is exactly what the commish's job is. They change rules every year, give the worst teams the best draft spots and debate franchise numbers and locations all in the interests of what is best for the league.

Yeah, or Vick could have gone to Buffalo, blown up in Chan Gailey's offense, turned around a struggling storied franchise, and saved football in one of the league's smallest markets.

Or, the year before Gailey became HC, he could have been shoved into the starting QB situation and utterly imploding while turning off some of the few fans they have left. I live right by Philly (not an Eagles fan) and they took a crap load of heat from their fans for signing Vick. Had he been forced to start and sucked it would have been much worse- and there was a good chance he would have sucked that first year back.

Wow, congrats, you are a genius. The Eagles have a season ticket waiting list about 10 miles long. They've sold out close to if not every Eagles home game since the stadium built. This is based off capacity of each stadium which I am sure Ralph Wilson stadium and Lincoln Financial Field are pretty close. If you want to get into a fan pissing match I'd almost bet Buffalo could not say the same about there season ticket waiting list. But whatever, you sound like a jealous and incredibly petty Bills fan to say the least.

Few fans they have left? The Bills routinely have one of the highest attendance figures in the NFL. Bills fans were recently ranked the 4th on a list of die hard sports fans across all US teams. This ain't Philly we're talking about where the fans are fickle and just downright mean-spirited.

And the contention of some that the Commish's job is to do what's best for the league just don't get it. Maybe what was best for the league was giving one of their smallest markets a chance to compete?

2010 attendance rankings (per ESPN):1)dallas

.

.

12) philly

.

.

.

.

22) Buffalo

I can only find full league figures back to 2006, but according to my calculations, the Eagles had an average of 68,965 fans at each home game. The Bills had an average of 68,721. So congratulations, a team that has a winning percentage significantly higher than the Bills averages about 240 more fans per game in a market that is 4.5 times the size of Buffalo's. How very impressive.

Wow, congrats, you win genius. Lincoln Fiancial field and Ralph Wilson stadium are pretty close to capacity size, heck Ralph Wilson might even be bigger. The Eagles season ticket waiting list is probably about 10 miles long. Since you want to get into a fan pissing match I am willing to bet the same could not be said about Buffalo. You are a very jealous and petty Buffalo Bills fan. But whatever, i'm done with this argument.

 

[Joe Summer]

I would like to say I was shocked after reading this, but I'm not the least bit surprised. Goodell already has a long track record of interfering with individual team's personnel decisions. This just further cements Goodell as being the worst commish of my lifetime.

Bengals and Bills fans have every right to be infuriated with their owners.

Fixed.If the Bengals and Bills were run by professionals, Goodell wouldn't have hesitated to endorse them.

That has nothing to do with anything. It's not Goodell's job to determine who the best owners are and steer players towards them.

Yes it is. Goodell has to consider the best interests of the entire NFL. And when it comes to certain sensitive situations -- Michael Vick, PacMan Jones, etc. -- he has every right (and every obligation) to offer his opinion.Now, if Goodell had BLOCKED Vick from signing with Buffalo or Cincinnati, then you'd have a right to complain. But if all he's doing is offering his opinion of what's best for the NFL, then the fans in Buffalo and Cincinnati should be applauding it, not whining about it.

From Vick's own mouth, that's basically what Goodell did.

No it isn't. Here is the interview. Care to show me exactly where Vick stated, with his "own mouth", that Goodell blocked Vick from signing with Buffalo or Cincinnati?

 

[CentralPA]

It's not his decision on that type of stuff as to what's "best" for the league.

that is exactly what the commish's job is. They change rules every year, give the worst teams the best draft spots and debate franchise numbers and locations all in the interests of what is best for the league.

Yeah, or Vick could have gone to Buffalo, blown up in Chan Gailey's offense, turned around a struggling storied franchise, and saved football in one of the league's smallest markets.

Or, the year before Gailey became HC, he could have been shoved into the starting QB situation and utterly imploding while turning off some of the few fans they have left. I live right by Philly (not an Eagles fan) and they took a crap load of heat from their fans for signing Vick. Had he been forced to start and sucked it would have been much worse- and there was a good chance he would have sucked that first year back.

Few fans they have left? The Bills routinely have one of the highest attendance figures in the NFL. Bills fans were recently ranked the 4th on a list of die hard sports fans across all US teams. This ain't Philly we're talking about where the fans are fickle and just downright mean-spirited. And the contention of some that the Commish's job is to do what's best for the league just don't get it. Maybe what was best for the league was giving one of their smallest markets a chance to compete?

2010 attendance rankings (per ESPN):1)dallas

.

.

12) philly

.

.

.

.

22) Buffalo

I can only find full league figures back to 2006, but according to my calculations, the Eagles had an average of 68,965 fans at each home game. The Bills had an average of 68,721. So congratulations, a team that has a winning percentage significantly higher than the Bills averages about 240 more fans per game in a market that is 4.5 times the size of Buffalo's. How very impressive.

Buffalo Bill stadium capacity: 73,079Philadelphia Eagles stadium capacities:

Linc: 69,144

Vet: 62,000

Thank you!

 

[RUSF18]

All people are saying is that the manner in which Goodell or the league's front office steered Vick to the Eagles hasn't been made clear. Which means that there may be more to the story. The devil is in the details with this sort of thing.Did Goodell look Vick in the eye and say "You need to sign with the Eagles"?Or did he give Vick a run down about how he wasn't sure about letting Vick back into the league and that Vick had better fly straight on his one and only second chance...which then caused Vick to re-evaluated his wish list and decide on Philly?In both of those scenarios, Vick might conclude that he had been "steered" towards Philly. But in only one did Goodell actually express a preference for where Vick should sign.That's why I'm not jumping all over this just yet. I want to hear more about how it actually went down.But if Goodell blatantly and explicitly conditioned Vick's reinstatement upon signing with Philly to the exclusion of Cincy or Buffalo, then I would see that as dirty pool.

I'll repost word for word what I said before.

This is what the article says:1. Vick wanted to go to Cincy or Buffalo.2. He met with Goodell and other league officials.3. After that meeting he decided to go to Philadelphia.4. Vick credits Goodell and other league officials with his change of heart.

Nobody disputes any of those things, right?With that in mind, I don't care what happened in #2, which seems to be the "details" you're concerned with. I don't care if Goodell said "go to Philly or you're out of the league" or if he just said "I'm not a fan of hot wings or chili over spaghetti" while discussing lunch options. In either case he is affecting a free agent's decisionmaking process, and therefore he is skewing the playing field, which is IMO the cardinal sin for a league commissioner.I have no problem with a third party consulting with Vick on his decision and helping steer him to what's best for him, even someone recommended to him by the league's front office. But that person should not be a representative of the front office. The fact that Goodell discussed possible destinations with Vick at all doesn't pass the smell test with me personally. But when you add to that the fact that Vick clearly changed his mind as a result of those conversations, I don't even see how there's another side to this.

I dispute your #4. He credits "them" ("they" is used in the quote). We don't know who those people are. It could be Goodell, it could be other NFL execs, it could be his agent, an advisor, or any combination. The author/interviewer is the one providing the background behind it. Hell, the "they" could have been the Eagles organization for providing the situation that allowed him to thrive. If Vick said anything that explicitly linked Goodell, etc to that decision, it would be in quotes. You don't know what question the interviewer asked or how it was phrased that got him to provide that quote. As far as we know RIGHT NOW*, #4 isn't a fact. * - Obvious disclaimer for more information.

 

[by_the_sea_wannabe]

I think the NFL did the right thing. He needed to take a step back and play for a good coach as opposed to just jumping right into a more unstable organization where he would immediately be the starter. It also helped create one hell of a QB which I'm fairly certain wouldn't have happened elsewhere.

wat? "Stable" and "unstable" are all opinions. The NFL shoudlnt' be steering players to any particular franchises. If the commissioner is telling or even suggesting to players where they should go, it is a conflict of interest and totally corrupts the integrity of the league. Goodell should step down if this is true.

Technically, I guess, it is an opinion, but is there a person on the face of the earth that holds the opinion that Buffalo or Cincy is a more stable franchise than Philly?

Philly? You mean the organization with the head coach whose two sons are both drug addicts/dealers? Where the fans can turn on you in a second and destroy any player? Where the current starting QB that was similar to Vick had a terrible relationship with his coach and fans? There are plenty of reasons why Philly wasn't "stable."

:unhinged:

You tell me what part of that is wrong.

the part where you try to argue Buffalo is a more stable franchise than the Eagles.11 Wade Phillips 1998–2000 48 29 19 0 .604 2 0 2 [20]

12 Gregg Williams 2001–2003 48 17 31 0 .354 – – – [21]

13 Mike Mularkey 2004–2005 32 14 18 0 .438 – – – [22]

14 **** Jauron 2006–2009 57 24 33 0 .421 – – – [23]

15 Perry Fewell 2009 7 3 4 0 .429 – – – [24]

16 Chan Gailey 2010-Present 16 4 12 0 .250 – – – [25

Season(s) Quarterback(s)

2010 Ryan Fitzpatrick (13) / Trent Edwards (2) / Brian Brohm (1)

2009 Ryan Fitzpatrick (8) / Trent Edwards (7) / Brian Brohm (1)

2008 Trent Edwards (14) / J.P. Losman (2)

2007 Trent Edwards (9) / J.P. Losman (7)

2006 J.P. Losman (16)

2005 J.P. Losman (8) / Kelly Holcomb (8)

2004 Drew Bledsoe (16)

2003 Drew Bledsoe (16)

2002 Drew Bledsoe (16)

2001 Alex Van Pelt (8) / Rob Johnson (8)

2000 Rob Johnson (11) / Doug Flutie (5)

1999 Doug Flutie (15) / Rob Johnson (1)

1998 Doug Flutie (10) / Rob Johnson (6)

1997 Todd Collins (13) / Alex Van Pelt (3)

Season(s) Quarterback(s)

2010 Michael Vick (11) / Kevin Kolb (5)

2009 Donovan McNabb (14) / Kevin Kolb (2) / Michael Vick (1)[a]

2008 Donovan McNabb (16)

2007 Donovan McNabb (14) / A. J. Feeley (2)

2006 Donovan McNabb (10) / Jeff Garcia (6)

2005 Donovan McNabb (9) / Mike McMahon (7)

2004 Donovan McNabb (15) / Koy Detmer (1)

2003 Donovan McNabb (16)

2002 Donovan McNabb (10) / A. J. Feeley (5) / Koy Detmer (1)

2001 Donovan McNabb (16)

2000 Donovan McNabb (16)

20 Andy Reid 1999–present 192 118 73 1 .618 19 10 9 AP Coach of the Year (2002)

Pro Football Weekly Coach of the Year (2002)

Sporting News Coach of the Year (2000, 2002)[9] [32

Then there is the records of both teams in the past dozen years. Simply put - the bills since the super bowls are a joke. The Eagles are competitive year in and year out. Not even in the same class. The Bills are in the same class the Bengals. Sorry guy. Your franchise has become a joke.

Yet, you conveniently ignore all of my arguments that demonstrate that there are legitimate reasons for saying that there are stability issues in Philly. Everything I listed was a completely legitimate reason for arguing that Philly has issues too. Sure, there are plenty of reasons to argue that Philly is the more stable franchise, and they probably are. If I had to make a call on it, I'd say that they're more stable right now too. Mostly because Buffalo's market just can't support a team all that well anymore and there is a decent chance that the team could be moved to another market. But there ARE arguments to the contrary and the Commissioner of the NFL is wrong to get involved in that conversation. He stepped over the line by recommending one team over another. The Commish simply CAN NOT play favorites in any way. Anyone that thinks otherwise should be kicked out of any fantasy league that they're in. Funny that so many Eagles fans are bragging about the stability of their franchise and how great they are in this thread. Wonder how many of you nod your head everytime you listen to the local sports radio when they rip Andy Reid and Jeffrey Laurie as soon as the team chokes in the playoffs each year. Wonder how many have nodded their head when callers scream for the ousting of Andy Reid? Wonder how many ripped McNabb continually for being a choker and throwing all those worm burners?

Sure, I'd rather the Bills have the winning percentage of the Eagles over the last decade, but guess what? They both have won the same exact number of Super Bowls.

sorry but idiot fans have nothing to do with the stability of a franchise, unless the management team allows them to. the kids of the head coach again have nothing to do with the stability of the franchise.

 

[TobiasFunke]

I dispute your #4. He credits "them" ("they" is used in the quote). We don't know who those people are. It could be Goodell, it could be other NFL execs, it could be his agent, an advisor, or any combination. The author/interviewer is the one providing the background behind it. Hell, the "they" could have been the Eagles organization for providing the situation that allowed him to thrive. If Vick said anything that explicitly linked Goodell, etc to that decision, it would be in quotes. You don't know what question the interviewer asked or how it was phrased that got him to provide that quote. As far as we know RIGHT NOW*, #4 isn't a fact. * - Obvious disclaimer for more information.

WHAT?Here's what it says:

"I think I can say this now, because it's not going to hurt anybody's feelings, and it's the truth," Vick tells me a few weeks after the commencement ceremony. "I didn't want to come to Philadelphia. Being the third-team quarterback is nothing to smile about. Cincinnati and Buffalo were better options." Those two teams wanted him and would've allowed him to start, but after meeting with commissioner Roger Goodell and other reps from the NFL, Vick was convinced—and granted league approval—to sign with Philly. "And I commend and thank them, because they put me in the right situation."

There is only one set of people that could possibly be the "them" referred to the last quote from Vick: "Roger Goodell and other reps from the NFL." That's what it says. It couldn't be more clear. It's ridiculous to read it any other way.

 

[Joe Summer]

I dispute your #4. He credits "them" ("they" is used in the quote). We don't know who those people are. It could be Goodell, it could be other NFL execs, it could be his agent, an advisor, or any combination. The author/interviewer is the one providing the background behind it. Hell, the "they" could have been the Eagles organization for providing the situation that allowed him to thrive. If Vick said anything that explicitly linked Goodell, etc to that decision, it would be in quotes. You don't know what question the interviewer asked or how it was phrased that got him to provide that quote. As far as we know RIGHT NOW*, #4 isn't a fact.

And even if "they" DOES refer to Goodell, I don't think that "they put me in the right situation" is the same thing as "Goodell put me in Philadelphia". He could be saying "they [Goodell] put me in a frame of mind where I was able to make an informed decision".Vick is being vague with his statements and allowing readers to draw their own conclusions.

 

[RUSF18]

I dispute your #4. He credits "them" ("they" is used in the quote). We don't know who those people are. It could be Goodell, it could be other NFL execs, it could be his agent, an advisor, or any combination. The author/interviewer is the one providing the background behind it. Hell, the "they" could have been the Eagles organization for providing the situation that allowed him to thrive. If Vick said anything that explicitly linked Goodell, etc to that decision, it would be in quotes. You don't know what question the interviewer asked or how it was phrased that got him to provide that quote. As far as we know RIGHT NOW*, #4 isn't a fact.

* - Obvious disclaimer for more information.

WHAT?

Here's what it says:

"I think I can say this now, because it's not going to hurt anybody's feelings, and it's the truth," Vick tells me a few weeks after the commencement ceremony. "I didn't want to come to Philadelphia. Being the third-team quarterback is nothing to smile about. Cincinnati and Buffalo were better options." Those two teams wanted him and would've allowed him to start, but after meeting with commissioner Roger Goodell and other reps from the NFL, Vick was convinced—and granted league approval—to sign with Philly. "And I commend and thank them, because they put me in the right situation."

There is only one set of people that could possibly be the "them" referred to the last quote from Vick: "Roger Goodell and other reps from the NFL." That's what it says. It couldn't be more clear. It's ridiculous to read it any other way.

Of course it can be more clear. The bold part could be a quote from Vick, instead of the author putting his own exposition in between two quotes. Again, there is no way, based on what is written, that you can FACTUALLY with 100% certainty state what you said in #4.edit: Before, I was about 95% sure that Goodell et al had some kind of influence in Vick's decision, whether or not you want to call it "steering". Thinking about it some more, I'd drop that down to about 5%. Why? Because a journalist will always use an actual quote from their subject if it's available. It's cleaner, it's much more effective, and most of all, it's attributable. I don't think in an entire conversation, Vick avoided saying something like "Goodell made me realize Philadelphia was the best fit for me" if that was truly the case.

I'll point to shoddy journalism.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

I dispute your #4. He credits "them" ("they" is used in the quote). We don't know who those people are. It could be Goodell, it could be other NFL execs, it could be his agent, an advisor, or any combination. The author/interviewer is the one providing the background behind it. Hell, the "they" could have been the Eagles organization for providing the situation that allowed him to thrive. If Vick said anything that explicitly linked Goodell, etc to that decision, it would be in quotes. You don't know what question the interviewer asked or how it was phrased that got him to provide that quote. As far as we know RIGHT NOW*, #4 isn't a fact.

* - Obvious disclaimer for more information.

WHAT?

Here's what it says:

"I think I can say this now, because it's not going to hurt anybody's feelings, and it's the truth," Vick tells me a few weeks after the commencement ceremony. "I didn't want to come to Philadelphia. Being the third-team quarterback is nothing to smile about. Cincinnati and Buffalo were better options." Those two teams wanted him and would've allowed him to start, but after meeting with commissioner Roger Goodell and other reps from the NFL, Vick was convinced—and granted league approval—to sign with Philly. "And I commend and thank them, because they put me in the right situation."

There is only one set of people that could possibly be the "them" referred to the last quote from Vick: "Roger Goodell and other reps from the NFL." That's what it says. It couldn't be more clear. It's ridiculous to read it any other way.

That is what it says....now who said that? Vick? Go read it again and see if it's not so ridiculous when you apply quotes correctly...

 

[Joe Summer]

WHAT?

Here's what it says:

"I think I can say this now, because it's not going to hurt anybody's feelings, and it's the truth," Vick tells me a few weeks after the commencement ceremony. "I didn't want to come to Philadelphia. Being the third-team quarterback is nothing to smile about. Cincinnati and Buffalo were better options." Those two teams wanted him and would've allowed him to start, but after meeting with commissioner Roger Goodell and other reps from the NFL, Vick was convinced—and granted league approval—to sign with Philly. "And I commend and thank them, because they put me in the right situation."

There is only one set of people that could possibly be the "them" referred to the last quote from Vick: "Roger Goodell and other reps from the NFL." That's what it says. It couldn't be more clear. It's ridiculous to read it any other way.

Um, that last quote wasn't from Vick. It was from the author of the story.

 

[TobiasFunke]

WHAT?

Here's what it says:

"I think I can say this now, because it's not going to hurt anybody's feelings, and it's the truth," Vick tells me a few weeks after the commencement ceremony. "I didn't want to come to Philadelphia. Being the third-team quarterback is nothing to smile about. Cincinnati and Buffalo were better options." Those two teams wanted him and would've allowed him to start, but after meeting with commissioner Roger Goodell and other reps from the NFL, Vick was convinced—and granted league approval—to sign with Philly. "And I commend and thank them, because they put me in the right situation."

There is only one set of people that could possibly be the "them" referred to the last quote from Vick: "Roger Goodell and other reps from the NFL." That's what it says. It couldn't be more clear. It's ridiculous to read it any other way.

Um, that last quote wasn't from Vick. It was from the author of the story.

Um, no. It's from Vick. That's what these marks mean: ".If you're still not clear, here's some additional reading for you.

 

[TobiasFunke]

I dispute your #4. He credits "them" ("they" is used in the quote). We don't know who those people are. It could be Goodell, it could be other NFL execs, it could be his agent, an advisor, or any combination. The author/interviewer is the one providing the background behind it. Hell, the "they" could have been the Eagles organization for providing the situation that allowed him to thrive. If Vick said anything that explicitly linked Goodell, etc to that decision, it would be in quotes. You don't know what question the interviewer asked or how it was phrased that got him to provide that quote. As far as we know RIGHT NOW*, #4 isn't a fact.

* - Obvious disclaimer for more information.

WHAT?

Here's what it says:

"I think I can say this now, because it's not going to hurt anybody's feelings, and it's the truth," Vick tells me a few weeks after the commencement ceremony. "I didn't want to come to Philadelphia. Being the third-team quarterback is nothing to smile about. Cincinnati and Buffalo were better options." Those two teams wanted him and would've allowed him to start, but after meeting with commissioner Roger Goodell and other reps from the NFL, Vick was convinced—and granted league approval—to sign with Philly. "And I commend and thank them, because they put me in the right situation."

There is only one set of people that could possibly be the "them" referred to the last quote from Vick: "Roger Goodell and other reps from the NFL." That's what it says. It couldn't be more clear. It's ridiculous to read it any other way.

That is what it says....now who said that? Vick? Go read it again and see if it's not so ridiculous when you apply quotes correctly...

Jesus H. Christ. You have to be kidding me.Vick said that he commends and thanks Roger Goodell and other reps from the NFL for a meeting, the product of which was that he changed his mind. There is no other way to interpret that.

If you think the direct quote from Vick meant "them" to be anyone other than "Roger Goodell and other reps from the NFL," what you are saying is that the author of the article wrote it in such a way as to intentionally mislead the reader. That simply doesn't happen very often. Especially with this writer, who I'm familiar with and who does excellent work.

 

[RUSF18]

WHAT?

Here's what it says:

"I think I can say this now, because it's not going to hurt anybody's feelings, and it's the truth," Vick tells me a few weeks after the commencement ceremony. "I didn't want to come to Philadelphia. Being the third-team quarterback is nothing to smile about. Cincinnati and Buffalo were better options." Those two teams wanted him and would've allowed him to start, but after meeting with commissioner Roger Goodell and other reps from the NFL, Vick was convinced—and granted league approval—to sign with Philly. "And I commend and thank them, because they put me in the right situation."

There is only one set of people that could possibly be the "them" referred to the last quote from Vick: "Roger Goodell and other reps from the NFL." That's what it says. It couldn't be more clear. It's ridiculous to read it any other way.

Um, that last quote wasn't from Vick. It was from the author of the story.

Um, no. It's from Vick. That's what these marks mean: ".If you're still not clear, here's some additional reading for you.

Therein lies the problem. You didn't read my earlier post:

We can't be too hasty here. The article in the OP seems to be purposely inflammatory.

Leitch then points out that Vick met with Roger Goodell and the NFL and was steered towards Philly -- "I commend and thank them, because they put me in the right situation" -- which could seriously fire up those two fanbases, given that having Michael Vick on their respective rosters would certainly change things.

The author is wanting that to happen but the only direct quote given is "they put me in the right situation." Who is they? Is it the league and goodell or is it Tony dungy and his PR entourage? Need to have this clarified before the outrage.

Really? I was under the impression that when something is in quotes and then is followed by the words "Vick tells me," that's a direct quote from Vick.

From the article:

"I think I can say this now, because it's not going to hurt anybody's feelings, and it's the truth," Vick tells me a few weeks after the commencement ceremony. "I didn't want to come to Philadelphia. Being the third-team quarterback is nothing to smile about. Cincinnati and Buffalo were better options." Those two teams wanted him and would've allowed him to start, but after meeting with commissioner Roger Goodell and other reps from the NFL, Vick was convinced—and granted league approval—to sign with Philly. "And I commend and thank them, because they put me in the right situation."

Did you see where the quotation marks stop and start again?

Let's go through it again:

(start)"I think I can say this now, because it's not going to hurt anybody's feelings, and it's the truth," (stop)Vick tells me a few weeks after the commencement ceremony. (start)"I didn't want to come to Philadelphia. Being the third-team quarterback is nothing to smile about. Cincinnati and Buffalo were better options." (stop)Those two teams wanted him and would've allowed him to start, but after meeting with commissioner Roger Goodell and other reps from the NFL, Vick was convinced—and granted league approval—to sign with Philly. (start)"And I commend and thank them, because they put me in the right situation."(stop)

 

[Bigboy10182000]

WHAT?

Here's what it says:

"I think I can say this now, because it's not going to hurt anybody's feelings, and it's the truth," Vick tells me a few weeks after the commencement ceremony. "I didn't want to come to Philadelphia. Being the third-team quarterback is nothing to smile about. Cincinnati and Buffalo were better options." Those two teams wanted him and would've allowed him to start, but after meeting with commissioner Roger Goodell and other reps from the NFL, Vick was convinced—and granted league approval—to sign with Philly. "And I commend and thank them, because they put me in the right situation."

There is only one set of people that could possibly be the "them" referred to the last quote from Vick: "Roger Goodell and other reps from the NFL." That's what it says. It couldn't be more clear. It's ridiculous to read it any other way.

Um, that last quote wasn't from Vick. It was from the author of the story.

Um, no. It's from Vick. That's what these marks mean: ".If you're still not clear, here's some additional reading for you.

"I think I can say this now, because it's not going to hurt anybody's feelings, and it's the truth," Vick tells me a few weeks after the commencement ceremony. [OPEN QUOTE] "I didn't want to come to Philadelphia. Being the third-team quarterback is nothing to smile about. Cincinnati and Buffalo were better options."[CLOSE QUOTE] Those two teams wanted him and would've allowed him to start, but after meeting with commissioner Roger Goodell and other reps from the NFL, Vick was convinced—and granted league approval—to sign with Philly.[NO QUOTE] "And I commend and thank them, because they put me in the right situation."

If this isn't enough then you're doomed..The BOLD is from the writer.

 

[Joe Summer]

WHAT?

Here's what it says:

"I think I can say this now, because it's not going to hurt anybody's feelings, and it's the truth," Vick tells me a few weeks after the commencement ceremony. "I didn't want to come to Philadelphia. Being the third-team quarterback is nothing to smile about. Cincinnati and Buffalo were better options." Those two teams wanted him and would've allowed him to start, but after meeting with commissioner Roger Goodell and other reps from the NFL, Vick was convinced—and granted league approval—to sign with Philly. "And I commend and thank them, because they put me in the right situation."

There is only one set of people that could possibly be the "them" referred to the last quote from Vick: "Roger Goodell and other reps from the NFL." That's what it says. It couldn't be more clear. It's ridiculous to read it any other way.

Um, that last quote wasn't from Vick. It was from the author of the story.

Um, no. It's from Vick. That's what these marks mean: ".If you're still not clear, here's some additional reading for you.

THOSE QUOTATION MARKS AREN'T IN THE ARTICLE!!! I haven't seen someone this proud about being wrong since the season finale of Jersey Shore.

Here is the actual article. For your benefit, I will reproduce the relevant quote for you, including the exact punctuation. To assist you, I've marked Vick's actual words (you know, the parts INSIDE the quotation marks) in red:

"I think I can say this now, because it's not going to hurt anybody's feelings, and it's the truth," Vick tells me a few weeks after the commencement ceremony. "I didn't want to come to Philadelphia. Being the third-team quarterback is nothing to smile about. Cincinnati and Buffalo were better options." Those two teams wanted him and would've allowed him to start, but after meeting with commissioner Roger Goodell and other reps from the NFL, Vick was convinced—and granted league approval—to sign with Philly. "And I commend and thank them, because they put me in the right situation."

Once again: notice that there aren't any quotation marks where you think they are??

 

[The Dynasty]

It's not his decision on that type of stuff as to what's "best" for the league.

that is exactly what the commish's job is. They change rules every year, give the worst teams the best draft spots and debate franchise numbers and locations all in the interests of what is best for the league.

Yeah, or Vick could have gone to Buffalo, blown up in Chan Gailey's offense, turned around a struggling storied franchise, and saved football in one of the league's smallest markets.

Or, the year before Gailey became HC, he could have been shoved into the starting QB situation and utterly imploding while turning off some of the few fans they have left. I live right by Philly (not an Eagles fan) and they took a crap load of heat from their fans for signing Vick. Had he been forced to start and sucked it would have been much worse- and there was a good chance he would have sucked that first year back.

Few fans they have left? The Bills routinely have one of the highest attendance figures in the NFL. Bills fans were recently ranked the 4th on a list of die hard sports fans across all US teams. This ain't Philly we're talking about where the fans are fickle and just downright mean-spirited. And the contention of some that the Commish's job is to do what's best for the league just don't get it. Maybe what was best for the league was giving one of their smallest markets a chance to compete?

2010 attendance rankings (per ESPN):1)dallas

.

.

12) philly

.

.

.

.

22) Buffalo

I can only find full league figures back to 2006, but according to my calculations, the Eagles had an average of 68,965 fans at each home game. The Bills had an average of 68,721. So congratulations, a team that has a winning percentage significantly higher than the Bills averages about 240 more fans per game in a market that is 4.5 times the size of Buffalo's. How very impressive.

I'm not sure where you got those figures, but this took me all of 5 seconds to find with Google and seems to be the stats CentralPA is quoting. And if you sort by percentage then Buffalo is in the bottom four in the league.

 

[TobiasFunke]

WHAT?

Here's what it says:

"I think I can say this now, because it's not going to hurt anybody's feelings, and it's the truth," Vick tells me a few weeks after the commencement ceremony. "I didn't want to come to Philadelphia. Being the third-team quarterback is nothing to smile about. Cincinnati and Buffalo were better options." Those two teams wanted him and would've allowed him to start, but after meeting with commissioner Roger Goodell and other reps from the NFL, Vick was convinced—and granted league approval—to sign with Philly. "And I commend and thank them, because they put me in the right situation."

There is only one set of people that could possibly be the "them" referred to the last quote from Vick: "Roger Goodell and other reps from the NFL." That's what it says. It couldn't be more clear. It's ridiculous to read it any other way.

Um, that last quote wasn't from Vick. It was from the author of the story.

Um, no. It's from Vick. That's what these marks mean: ".If you're still not clear, here's some additional reading for you.

"I think I can say this now, because it's not going to hurt anybody's feelings, and it's the truth," Vick tells me a few weeks after the commencement ceremony. [OPEN QUOTE] "I didn't want to come to Philadelphia. Being the third-team quarterback is nothing to smile about. Cincinnati and Buffalo were better options."[CLOSE QUOTE] Those two teams wanted him and would've allowed him to start, but after meeting with commissioner Roger Goodell and other reps from the NFL, Vick was convinced—and granted league approval—to sign with Philly.[NO QUOTE] "And I commend and thank them, because they put me in the right situation."

If this isn't enough then you're doomed..The BOLD is from the writer.

I understand that. What you are saying, then, is that it's possible that the writer took the Vick quote out of context and used it to deliberately misquote Vick and mislead the reader, using "them" to mean "Roger Goodell and other reps from the NFL" when Vick actually meant someone else. If that actually happened, then yes, it's possible that "them" refers to someone other than "Roger Goodell and other reps from the NFL." Sure, technically I suppose that's not completely impossible.

But I would find that very hard to believe. The writer had to know that the article would receive widespread attention and that that paragraph might come under scrutiny. To intentionally misquote a prominent interview subject and mislead the reader in a piece like this would be career suicide. There is absolutely no reason for him to do so, especially since the article is plenty interesting without that bit.

 

[Dexter Manley]

I would like to say I was shocked after reading this, but I'm not the least bit surprised. Goodell already has a long track record of interfering with individual team's personnel decisions. This just further cements Goodell as being the worst commish of my lifetime.

Bengals and Bills fans have every right to be infuriated with their owners.

Fixed.If the Bengals and Bills were run by professionals, Goodell wouldn't have hesitated to endorse them.

That has nothing to do with anything. It's not Goodell's job to determine who the best owners are and steer players towards them.

Yes it is. Goodell has to consider the best interests of the entire NFL. And when it comes to certain sensitive situations -- Michael Vick, PacMan Jones, etc. -- he has every right (and every obligation) to offer his opinion.Now, if Goodell had BLOCKED Vick from signing with Buffalo or Cincinnati, then you'd have a right to complain. But if all he's doing is offering his opinion of what's best for the NFL, then the fans in Buffalo and Cincinnati should be applauding it, not whining about it.

From Vick's own mouth, that's basically what Goodell did.

No it isn't. Here is the interview. Care to show me exactly where Vick stated, with his "own mouth", that Goodell blocked Vick from signing with Buffalo or Cincinnati?

You need to work on your cut and paste skills and include my whole post. Goodell has power over Vick wrt the NFL like a parole officer would have power over you if you just got out of prison. From what I've read, Vick went to the Eagles even though he didn't want to. It's pretty obvious Goodell forced Vick's hand here.

 

[QuizGuy66]

So the commish can tamper and screw my Bengals out of a player but they can't force to get a real owner, GM, training facility or scouting department. That's just great.

-QG

 

[TobiasFunke]

]

THOSE QUOTATION MARKS AREN'T IN THE ARTICLE!!!

I haven't seen someone this proud about being wrong since the season finale of Jersey Shore.

Here is the actual article. For your benefit, I will reproduce the relevant quote for you, including the exact punctuation. To assist you, I've marked Vick's actual words (you know, the parts INSIDE the quotation marks) in red:

"I think I can say this now, because it's not going to hurt anybody's feelings, and it's the truth," Vick tells me a few weeks after the commencement ceremony. "I didn't want to come to Philadelphia. Being the third-team quarterback is nothing to smile about. Cincinnati and Buffalo were better options." Those two teams wanted him and would've allowed him to start, but after meeting with commissioner Roger Goodell and other reps from the NFL, Vick was convinced—and granted league approval—to sign with Philly. "And I commend and thank them, because they put me in the right situation."

Once again: notice that there aren't any quotation marks where you think they are??

Wow. Settle down there, champ.You said:

Um, that last quote wasn't from Vick. It was from the author of the story.

The last sentence of the quoted text is "And I commend and thank them, because they put me in the right situation." That is, very clearly, the last quote by any meaning of those two words.

If you want to crack stale Jersey Shore jokes and brag about "owning" someone on the internet like a prepubescent child, I guess you can. I don't see where that gets you, but it's a free country and a free message board. But you were wrong, the last quote was directly from Vick. Some people have raised a question as to who "them" is. I think that's silly, but at least it makes logical sense. Can't say the same about denying that the last sentence of the lifted text is directly out of Vick's mouth, though.

 

[Vicktimized]

I would like to say I was shocked after reading this, but I'm not the least bit surprised. Goodell already has a long track record of interfering with individual team's personnel decisions. This just further cements Goodell as being the worst commish of my lifetime.

Bengals and Bills fans have every right to be infuriated with their owners.

Fixed.If the Bengals and Bills were run by professionals, Goodell wouldn't have hesitated to endorse them.

That has nothing to do with anything. It's not Goodell's job to determine who the best owners are and steer players towards them.

Buffalo and Cincinnati, for all their bad management, saw upside with Vick -- at one time thought to be a franchise quarterback -- and it could have been a game-changer for either franchise given what we're seeing now. I'm a Saints fan, and my favorite team isn't so far off from being one of the Buffalos or Cincinnatis. I realize it's two different situations, but I'd be for good reason if the shoe was on this foot and in 2006 I learned that Goodell "guided" Drew Brees to Miami for any assortment of reasons.

I'd like to believe had Brees' situation been different, had he been in Vick's shoes, that a downtrodden franchise would be allowed to take a shot on a guy's upside to turn around their fortunes if management saw it worth pursuing.

But hey, Philly can get to yet another NFC CG or Super Bowl while Buffalo continues to languish. That's fair.

 

[Insein]

The point is that the author did the implying that Goodell steered Vick to Philly. There's no evidence that says its true. Only conjecture. So ultimately, its a moot point. Nothing will come of this except for fans in cincy and buffalo as well as Goodell haters to get all riled up for nothing.

 

[TobiasFunke]

The point is that the author did the implying that Goodell steered Vick to Philly. There's no evidence that says its true. Only conjecture. So ultimately, its a moot point. Nothing will come of this except for fans in cincy and buffalo as well as Goodell haters to get all riled up for nothing.

No. There is no conjecture here.The author quotes Vick as saying "And I commend and thank them, because they put me in the right situation."The way the piece is written, it is 100% certain that the author meant to convey that the "them" to whom Vick was referring is "Roger Goodell and other reps from the NFL." That is what it means when you describe someone in one sentence and then use "they" or "them" in the next sentence. "They" and "them" are shorthand tools to refer back to the party mentioned previously.With that in mind, there are two and only two possible conclusions:1. Vick meant to commend and thank Roger Goodell and other reps from the NFL for steering him away from Buffalo and Cincinnati and towards Philadelphia; or2. The author lifted a quote from Vick and used it improperly to imply something that Vick did not actually imply in their conversation.I have a really hard time believing #2, for the reasons I've previously mentioned. That leaves me with 1. If you've got an argument as to why #2 might be the case, I'm all ears. But when I read a piece by a professional writer in a national publication that has presumably been subjected to editing, I usually assume that what the writer is saying is 100% true. If it's not, shame, lawsuits and ends of careers are often the result.