NL MVP : Ryan Howard (1 Viewer)

[RnR]

Good for Howard........In spite of what people think...baseball is not solely about numbers. It's about having "it". Rotonerds, fantasy geeks, Cardinals fans and stat-o-philes will cry, clamor and complain that Howards VORP wasn't as high, his SNAFU wasn't as low and his SNUH wasn't as good as Pujols'. Maybe the myth is more than the reality (such as Howard being the young kid with Pujols being the veteran, or the Cardinals having such a great all around team which would diminish Pujol's value) ........ but in the end Howard had "it".

:hilariouslybadposting:

 

[Darth Cheney]

Good for Howard........In spite of what people think...baseball is not solely about numbers. It's about having "it". Rotonerds, fantasy geeks, Cardinals fans and stat-o-philes will cry, clamor and complain that Howards VORP wasn't as high, his SNAFU wasn't as low and his SNUH wasn't as good as Pujols'. Maybe the myth is more than the reality (such as Howard being the young kid with Pujols being the veteran, or the Cardinals having such a great all around team which would diminish Pujol's value) ........ but in the end Howard had "it".

:hilariouslybadposting:

I don't think you understand baseball.......

 

[dawgtrails]

An MVP who struck out 181 times? Please....good call sportswriters...

Would you have preferred if he grounded out to second 181 times instead?

Would he have advanced the runners doing so?

It would most likely be offset by him grounding into more double plays.

Strikeouts rarely hurt a team. The "productive" out is mostly a myth.

I strongly disaree.

Putting the ball in play>striking out

You saw it in the WS. Put some wood on the ball and anything can happen. A dribbler to a Detroit pitcher and you never know what's going to happen.

Yep, agree 100%.

Well, you are wrong. I will dig up the link to the study, but overall, a strikeout is no worse than a groundout.

Pointing to one specific play does not make for a strong argument my friend.

LOL, you're the one pointing to one specific play (i.e. the groundout vs. the strikeout).

I'm saying that putting the ball in play trumps a K, every day of the week.

This is little league knowledge.

Put the ball in play.

Yes, it is little league. Thankfully there are major league discussions going on about what stats mean what in the real world.

Read up a little bit, then we can have an adult conversation on the subject. Unless you think you learned all you need to know about baseball during your little league years.

It's called common knowledge.

Striking out = an out

Productive out = advanding a runner a base

Productive out is not a myth. It's a baseball stragety used by MLB teams that do not have a power hitter batting 1 thru 9 in the lineup.

You seem to have a narrow view on the subject, so I tried to post it as simply as I could, so you'd be able to understand it.

So, did you read the study or not?

I will, if you provide a link or PM. I always love a good BB read.

post #42

enjoy, its a good read

 

[pigskin pimp]

Good for Howard........In spite of what people think...baseball is not solely about numbers. It's about having "it". Rotonerds, fantasy geeks, Cardinals fans and stat-o-philes will cry, clamor and complain that Howards VORP wasn't as high, his SNAFU wasn't as low and his SNUH wasn't as good as Pujols'. Maybe the myth is more than the reality (such as Howard being the young kid with Pujols being the veteran, or the Cardinals having such a great all around team which would diminish Pujol's value) ........ but in the end Howard had "it".

It makes for great conversation because both players are well deserving of the award.What makes it even more interesting is that while the AL was regarded as the strong league, the NL won the WS and the top two players in the NL MVP vote would trample the AL players if the award was a MLB MVP instead a winner for each league.

 

[RnR]

Good for Howard........In spite of what people think...baseball is not solely about numbers. It's about having "it". Rotonerds, fantasy geeks, Cardinals fans and stat-o-philes will cry, clamor and complain that Howards VORP wasn't as high, his SNAFU wasn't as low and his SNUH wasn't as good as Pujols'. Maybe the myth is more than the reality (such as Howard being the young kid with Pujols being the veteran, or the Cardinals having such a great all around team which would diminish Pujol's value) ........ but in the end Howard had "it".

:hilariouslybadposting:

I don't think you understand baseball.......

That's probably what it is...

 

[pigskin pimp]

Ok, dawgtrails, I had a chance to read your article that swayed your thought process.

It seems that they skewered the numbers to reach their conclusion. They did not process in errors, only to swim by that subject. Also not factored in included were SFs, hit and runs, advanced runners on fly balls or ground balls.

They only debated the SO vs. the DP.

If that was their debate, they should have provided and compared numbers.

I.E. Tejada only SO 89x last year, but lead the league in GIDP. Hence, his "putting the ball" theory is backed up.

But to have a reasonable debate, you also have to show the other side of the equation.

Show the percentage of SO to GIDP of eah player to garner how much each individual helped or hurt his team. Then, to be more precise, find out the # of opportunites that player had with runners on the basepaths.

If I had more time, I'd do this, but the wife just came home.

In conclusion, if you are talking about using only GIDPs as the agrument, yes, you are right. But in baseball, every ball that is put into play is not a GIDP. That is only one aspect of the game.

 

[bryhamm]

BTW, one of the voters actually put Pujols down for 3rd place and put Beltran down for 2nd place.

Who's forming the lynching line?

 

[dawgtrails]

Ok, dawgtrails, I had a chance to read your article that swayed your thought process.It seems that they skewered the numbers to reach their conclusion. They did not process in errors, only to swim by that subject. Also not factored in included were SFs, hit and runs, advanced runners on fly balls or ground balls.They only debated the SO vs. the DP. If that was their debate, they should have provided and compared numbers.I.E. Tejada only SO 89x last year, but lead the league in GIDP. Hence, his "putting the ball" theory is backed up.But to have a reasonable debate, you also have to show the other side of the equation.Show the percentage of SO to GIDP of eah player to garner how much each individual helped or hurt his team. Then, to be more precise, find out the # of opportunites that player had with runners on the basepaths.If I had more time, I'd do this, but the wife just came home.In conclusion, if you are talking about using only GIDPs as the agrument, yes, you are right. But in baseball, every ball that is put into play is not a GIDP. That is only one aspect of the game.

There is a more in depth study that does take more into account.I have family here, so I will bring this back up when I get some time.But, they dont include sacrifices, because that is not the exact argument. The argument is that if you replace every strikeout, with a groundball/flyball out. Nothing much would differ.Cheers

 

[ThisGuy]

Good for Howard........In spite of what people think...baseball is not solely about numbers. It's about having "it". Rotonerds, fantasy geeks, Cardinals fans and stat-o-philes will cry, clamor and complain that Howards VORP wasn't as high, his SNAFU wasn't as low and his SNUH wasn't as good as Pujols'. Maybe the myth is more than the reality (such as Howard being the young kid with Pujols being the veteran, or the Cardinals having such a great all around team which would diminish Pujol's value) ........ but in the end Howard had "it".

It makes for great conversation because both players are well deserving of the award.What makes it even more interesting is that while the AL was regarded as the strong league, the NL won the WS and the top two players in the NL MVP vote would trample the AL players if the award was a MLB MVP instead a winner for each league.

Really??? Even though their team records were so much worse than the Yankees or Twins?!? I thought the MVP was based on the regular season.

 

[pigskin pimp]

Good for Howard........In spite of what people think...baseball is not solely about numbers. It's about having "it". Rotonerds, fantasy geeks, Cardinals fans and stat-o-philes will cry, clamor and complain that Howards VORP wasn't as high, his SNAFU wasn't as low and his SNUH wasn't as good as Pujols'. Maybe the myth is more than the reality (such as Howard being the young kid with Pujols being the veteran, or the Cardinals having such a great all around team which would diminish Pujol's value) ........ but in the end Howard had "it".

It makes for great conversation because both players are well deserving of the award.What makes it even more interesting is that while the AL was regarded as the strong league, the NL won the WS and the top two players in the NL MVP vote would trample the AL players if the award was a MLB MVP instead a winner for each league.

Really??? Even though their team records were so much worse than the Yankees or Twins?!? I thought the MVP was based on the regular season.

The MVP is an individual award that factors in how the individual mattered to their respective team as one basis. The team award is the WS trophy.

 

[oso diablo]

Putting the ball in play>striking out

You saw it in the WS. Put some wood on the ball and anything can happen. A dribbler to a Detroit pitcher and you never know what's going to happen.

:pierzynski: