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'NO WAY My Team does That!' Mock Draft (1 Viewer)

massraider

Footballguy
Doing a mock draft before free agency is an exercise in futility. Then again, doing a mock draft the night before the draft is also an exercise in futility, so why not in February, when draft boards aren't even set yet?

The annoying thing about mock drafts, is that draftniks are victims of group think. One guy put Tunsil at #1 two months ago, and everyone follows suit, and no one questions it. Josh Norris recently did a mock draft with no QBs in the top 15, and good for him. Is he correct? Nah, but hell, at least he was original.

The story of this draft is the 3 QBs, and the massive talent level of the defensive tackle class. Defensive tackle is so deep, we will see 3rd rounders that people are going to be happy with. Good luck figuring out what order they will actually go in, but my rule of thumb is that the 2-gap DTs will slide, and the penetrators will rise.

1. Titans-Joey Bosa--Mike Mularkey retained as head coach, dropping the interim label. Can you feel the excitement? :mellow: Titans have a new GM, Jon Robinson, who spent two seasons in Tampa, after twelve in New England. In New England, he learned that big defenders are better than small, and in Tampa he learned you can burn money in free agency if you aren't careful. Bosa is nice in any scheme, and the Titans hope he can be their JJ Watt. He's a DE that also happens to be white, so you know, pretty much the same guy. The Titans go and get another tackle in free agency, and build rtheir D around Bosa's all around game and hustle. He is already their best front 7 player.

2. Browns-Jared Goff--I know, a chalk pick. But I'm not going to be contrarian for the hell of it. I do believe that everyone is right, a QB is the pick. Hue knows he can throw McCown to the wolves for half a year or so, and he's not keeping his job if he doesn't get a QB. Cleveland has hired a super-computer as the new GM, and after entering in some data (beep beep boop), the Browns realize that Goff has the best numbers when under pressure. Good numbers when things are going bad? Welcome to Cleveland, son!! As a failsafe, HAL the GM hires 10 actors to pose as homeless men outside of Haslam's house, all of whom whisper 'Goff' over and over as they rub feces on their bodies.

3. Chargers-Myles Jack--Tunsil the obvious pick here, right? Well, the Chargers spent 8 mill to bring in Russell Okung at LT. Okung has trouble staying healthy, so he fits in great with the Chargers O-line. Jack is special. There wasn't a Myles Jack in the last draft, or the one before that. He's a special, special player. He also might be the best RB on the Chargers as well, which is a nice bonus. The Chargers run a 3-4, and have Perryman and Te'o, so how does Jack fit? He fits. Every team needs a Myles Jack. You don't pass on Jack because you have Manti Te'o, for pete's sake.

4. Cowboys-Jalen Ramsey--Quarterback? When will people learn? Jones loves Romo, and believes this is a playoff team with his QB healthy, especially in that sorry division. Looks like Byron Jones is playing safety, so the need for a CB is still there. Ramsey is a potential All-Pro at corner or safety, and is as safe as it gets. This pick is real interesting if Jack and Ramsey are both there.

5. Jaguars-DeForest Buckner--Man, their defense was bad last year. How do you hide your awful back 7? By improving the front 4. Dante Fowler returns, to hopefully provide some edge rush, and while everyone assumes Buckner goes to a 3-4, he's a fit in any scheme. He's better than Armstead was last year, and can play base end opposite Fowler, and help shore up the rush defense. Jacksonville has quietly drafted as well as anyone the last three years, and I look forward to seeing how they go this year.

6. Ravens-Laremy Tunsil--In classic Newsome fashion, he sits tight, and lets the draft come to him. The special defenders are gone, the Ravens offense needs some help, and WRs and D-linemen will be there later. OT isn't nearly that deep this year, so value matches need matches positional value. Newsome really wants a pass rusher, but the offensive coaches show him a film of Joe Flacco running a 40 yard dash, and Ozzie comes to his sense.

7. 49ers-Paxton Lynch--I think QB is a mortal lock here. Kaepernick is gone. He really, really hates the front office, and they don't really like him too much either. Ugly divorce on the way. Chip really likes the way Paxton Lynch moves, but really doesn't like his downfield accuracy. Wentz is the darling right now, because Lynch played bad against Auburn, and Wentz was nice at the Senior Bowl. But just because Mayock is lisp-ing sweet nothings in Wentz's ear doesn't mean that Chip is swayed. Chip gets his big mobile QB a year later. Blaine Gabbert is not the reason you pass on a QB. In fact, he's the reason you take one. Treadwell here? 'No Way That Happens!!!!'

8. Dolphins-Vernon Hargraves III--Dolphins are a fun team to think about, as they can go in a lot of different ways, sort of like a Tannehill deep ball (haw haw haw). They can really go in a lot of different ways, and I am gutlessly going with BPA. Do they need a corner? Everyone needs a corner. There's a little paralysis by analysis with Hargraves. He's been kickin butt in the SEC since he was a freshman, and born and raised in Florida.

9. Buccaneers-Shaq Lawson--Noah Spence tore things up at the Senior Bowl, in one on ones, when edge rushers should tear things up. But he's not a DE, he's a 3-4 OLB. No one claims to love Lawson, a lot of people think he's overrated. Well, so are all defensive ends. True 4-3 DEs that can play strong side and get after the passer are rare, and they don't make it to free agency. Gerald McCoy needs some help.

10. Giants-Mackensie Alexander--Jerry Reece needs to have a good draft. Giants need a lot of players. I am sure the 'For Sale' sign is hanging outside this pick, and if anyone is shopping for Wentz, this might be the spot. Rodgers-Cromarie is old, Amukamara is a free agent, and Lawson gets snaked right in front of them. Alexander has no stats, because no one tested him. He's a yapper, loves to challenge WRs, and will start from Day 1.

11. Bears-Carson Wentz--Oh yeah, that just happened. Cutler had a nice bounce back year, but let's all be real here, he's still Jay Cutler. The fans don't trust him, his teammates don't love him, the media hates, him, and I bet his wife is cheating on him. The Bears can get out of his contract next year, Wentz can sit for a half season or so, and the Bears can start to rebuild around him. I love this pick for Chicago, as the cold weather team gets their Roethlisberger, minus the sexual assaults.

12. Saints-Noah Spence--Faced with the worst cap situation in the league, the Saints needs will likely remain unchanged at the draft. Spence is a speedball pass rusher, and should look great on artificial turf. And man, could the Saints use him. Junior Galette's contract still hangs over the Saints like the grim reaper, they aren't replacing him with a free agent. Spence had trouble with drugs in college, but booze is the drug of choice in Nawlins, so what could go wrong?

13. Eagles-Taylor Decker--I expect Decker to rise this spring, as people get more info from NFL teams on Ronnie Stanley. Decker can play either OT spot, and has a Philly mentality. Jason Peters is entering the home stretch, and the Eagles secure their bookend OTs for 10 years (w/Lane Johnson). They could use Treadwell as well, but they have spent a lot in draft capital in WR the last couple years, they need the young bucks to step up.

14 Raiders-Jaylon Smith--Jaylon was nice enough to blow out his knee this winter, allowing his draft stock to fall enough for Oakland to take him. If Gurley can come back after a few games, and run over people, the Raiders can wait two months for Jaylon to fly around the field. Am I homer, allowing Smith to fall to Oakland? Yes, yes I am.

15. Rams-Laquon Treadwell--Whoever plays QB is going to need some targets, and tiny Tavon ain't enough. It's also conceivable that they trade up for a QB, or go after Marvin Jones in free agency, and take Eli Apple here. The lack of offensive skill players taking pressure off Gurley is embarrassing. Britt is a free agent, and the rest of their WRs would be OK if Tom Brady was here. He's not, so the Rams take the best WR in the class.

16. Lions-Sheldon Rankins--The DT gold rush starts here. Through piss-poor cap management, the Lions let Suh and Fairly go, so they start over with Rankins, a monster 3-tech, and will take pressure off Ansah. You could argue for about 3 other DTs here, and I won't argue. But Rankins has more pass rush than Robinson, less warts than Nkemdiche, and is a fast riser.

17. Falcons-A'Shawn Robinson--The Falcons have a defensive-minded head coach, with no defense. But there's some bodies along that line that are interesting, the cupboard isn't bare. Quin wants disruptor's up the middle, and Robinson is a man, man.

18. Colts-Ronnie Stanley--Irsay wants Zeke Elliott. Wants him bad. The coach tells him he can get Henry in the 2nd round. Irsay doesn't care. The coaches sigh, and tell him, fine, you win. As Irsay grabs his iPhone to Tweet the news, the coaches run an end around, draft their athletic LT to protect Luck, and Irsay tries to delete the Tweet. Too late, it's been re-Tweeted 8,000 times already. Hilarity ensues.

19. Bills-Kevin Dodd--Mario Williams and Kyle Williams are probably gone, and Rex wants D-linemen to make his defense go. Dodd is a LE, and slots in nicely next across from Hughes. He is bigger than Ogbah, and has a motor that revs faster. Rex is thinking about DT, but likes his chances of getting a 2-gapper later in the draft. Ragland makes too much sense here to actually happen.

20. Jets-Eli Apple--Apple is going to rise, as he has the best physical tools this side of Jalen Ramsey. The Jets aren't in love with Jack Conklin, and will roll with Brick for another year. They can use an edge guy as well, but Bowles trusts his scheme to create pressure, and it's easier to find a 3-4 OLB than a potential stud corner. If Stanley falls here, this would be interesting.

21. Redskins--Reggie Ragland--McCloughan has stabilized the Skins, and he gets his David Harris in the middle of the line. He has no ILB he likes, and he gets a big ILB that knows the 3-4. Ragland ain't covering Ertz 30 yards down the field, but he can fight off guards and centers, and offers a surprising amount of pass rush. Nice solid pick for the Skins.

22. Texans-Ezekial Elliott--The Texans can make this pick in .02 seconds, but they get to watch themselves on ESPN for 10 minutes, so why not milk it? Any offensive position here works, feel free to fill in your favorite player from that side of the ball.

23. Vikings-Corey Coleman--Whoa now. Matt Khalil has sucked out loud, and Conklin and Spriggs are sitting there, but their upside is workman-like starters. If Coleman was 6'3'', he'd be a top 10 pick. He's a little bulldog, can fly, but does much work close to the LOS, where Teddy is most comfortable.

24. Bengals-Robert Nkemdiche--Maaan, you think this team cares about his character concerns? Hell to the Naw. They'll hook him up with Pac-Man's clean piss guy, make sure he gets a hotel room on the 1st floor, and turn him loose on quarterbacks.

25. Steelers-Darian Thompson--Thompson is big time. He's a ball hawk, a team leader, and while he's no Polamalu, he offers range none of their current free safeties have.

26. Seahawks-Darron Lee--NFC West opponents better hope this doesn't happen. Lee is a slightly undersized WLB, and he'll get on the field for three plays right away. They have other needs more pressing now, but the Seahawks take BPA, and Lee is that guy.

27. Packers-Leonard Floyd--You can make an argument for a lot of guys here, and I'm not sure I love the pick, but when in doubt, go with a pass rusher. I could see a DT here as well, as the Raji marriage finally comes to a quiet end.

28. Chiefs-Jack Conklin--Conklin makes sense here, and the Chiefs have a need at both spots. Eric Fisher has not worked out, Conklin is a tough scrapper and will start right away somewhere.

29. Cardinals-Jarran Reed--Immovable. The linebackers are gone, so the Cards will try and keep Buchanon clean, by putting the Alabama strongman in front of him. Reed won't get a ton of sacks, but that's not his job here. Tie up blockers, Jarran, just clog the middle. Lok out for Joshua Perry here.

30. Panthers-Jason Spriggs--This may seem like a reach, but I am betting by draft day, it won't. There's a major drop off at OT after Spriggs, and the Panthers could upgrade two spots this offseason, conceivably

31. Broncos-Emmanuel Ogbah--Sick defense, with a lot of free agents. Does he fit the 3-4 exactly? Nah, probably not, but this happens every year. They'll make it work. Malik and Ware won't be there much longer, and Ogbah can work inside of Ray and Von, and create much havoc.

Just missed: Andrew Billings, William Jackson III, Vernon Butler, Hunter Henry, Josh Doctson, Michael Thomas, Johnathan Bullard, Joshua Perry.

Please comment, and I will explain why you're wrong, and I am totally correct. :whistle:

 

Bracie Smathers

Footballguy
14 Raiders-Jaylon Smith--Jaylon was nice enough to blow out his knee this winter, allowing his draft stock to fall enough for Oakland to take him. If Gurley can come back after a few games, and run over people, the Raiders can wait two months for Jaylon to fly around the field. Am I homer, allowing Smith to fall to Oakland? Yes, yes I am.
Not right, not wrong, TBD IMHO.

Go to the fourth post down on this thread to see the photos of the injury as it happened.

I think where he goes in completely dependant on what the meds say.

---------------------------------

http://www.scout.com/nfl/browns/forums/1767-draft-brew/14430642-jaylon-smith-knee-question

Jaylon Smith knee question

 

tangfoot

Living Slackmaster
I the Ravens get Tunsil to drop to them, the entire organization will be sprinting to the podium to turn in that pick.

 

Yenrub

Footballguy
No way the Giants take Mackensie Alexander at 10!!

I couldn't resist

I think they are going to resign Prince or at least they are going to try to

 

spider321

Footballguy
Please include the positions these guys play beside their names.

I'm a pretty casual college football viewer(obviously) and I haven't started slotting my dynasty rookie picks yet.

TIA.

 

Yenrub

Footballguy
No way the Giants take Mackensie Alexander at 10!!

I couldn't resist

I think they are going to resign Prince or at least they are going to try to
What about Ayers and JPP? Whats the word? They have the money.
One of the beat writers thinks the Giants are going to after Vernon (MIA) and resign Ayers

Another beat writer thinks the Giants will offer JPP a one year prove it deal and draft a DE at 10

So basically no one knows anything yet

 

BassNBrew

IBL Representative
No way my team does that!!!

Just saying that because we draft at 30 and the odd of you being right diminish with each pick.

 

massraider

Footballguy
No way the Giants take Mackensie Alexander at 10!!

I couldn't resist

I think they are going to resign Prince or at least they are going to try to
What about Ayers and JPP? Whats the word? They have the money.
One of the beat writers thinks the Giants are going to after Vernon (MIA) and resign Ayers

Another beat writer thinks the Giants will offer JPP a one year prove it deal and draft a DE at 10

So basically no one knows anything yet
I have to say, if I imagine teams that would go after Vernon, the Giants would be at the bottom of that list (among teams that can afford him).

Giants D-line all look the same to me, long and impressive. Vernon is very good, but he's short, by their standards.

 

FUBAR

Footballguy
1. Titans-Joey Bosa--Mike Mularkey retained as head coach, dropping the interim label. Can you feel the excitement? :mellow: Titans have a new GM, Jon Robinson, who spent two seasons in Tampa, after twelve in New England. In New England, he learned that big defenders are better than small, and in Tampa he learned you can burn money in free agency if you aren't careful. Bosa is nice in any scheme, and the Titans hope he can be their JJ Watt. He's a DE that also happens to be white, so you know, pretty much the same guy. The Titans go and get another tackle in free agency, and build rtheir D around Bosa's all around game and hustle. He is already their best front 7 player
Casey would disagree.

I won't say "no way" - If the Titans want a safe pick at the top, okay.

Maybe it's just that I dislike Ohio State but I don't think Bosa will become a top player in the NFL. Good player sure, maybe an occasional pro-bowler, but not a truly elite game changer which makes him not worthy of the top pick. Ideally, they trade down into 3-8 and add more picks, either this year or next. But if we don't want to project trades, Tunsil seems the more logical pick.


 

massraider

Footballguy
1. Titans-Joey Bosa--Mike Mularkey retained as head coach, dropping the interim label. Can you feel the excitement? :mellow: Titans have a new GM, Jon Robinson, who spent two seasons in Tampa, after twelve in New England. In New England, he learned that big defenders are better than small, and in Tampa he learned you can burn money in free agency if you aren't careful. Bosa is nice in any scheme, and the Titans hope he can be their JJ Watt. He's a DE that also happens to be white, so you know, pretty much the same guy. The Titans go and get another tackle in free agency, and build rtheir D around Bosa's all around game and hustle. He is already their best front 7 player
Casey would disagree.

I won't say "no way" - If the Titans want a safe pick at the top, okay.

Maybe it's just that I dislike Ohio State but I don't think Bosa will become a top player in the NFL. Good player sure, maybe an occasional pro-bowler, but not a truly elite game changer which makes him not worthy of the top pick. Ideally, they trade down into 3-8 and add more picks, either this year or next. But if we don't want to project trades, Tunsil seems the more logical pick.
Well, with Tunsil you guaranteed to not get a game changer.

I should also have said in the Titans writeup, I think the left tackle position is losing value. Forever, it was left tackle was the best O-linemen out there, and the RT was an earth mover, because he was more of a run blocker, and had help from the TE.

This was based on the QB dropping 5 and 7 steps, from under center, and dominant right ends facing off against the LT one on one.

Now, it's quick passes from the shotgun. Watt and Mack line up at left end more often than not. The lines are blurred. Inside pass rush is more important than outside. Manning and Brady step up in front of edge rushers all day long, but both get brutalized by inside pressure.

I think RT is just as important as LT nowadays, and probably has been for a while. The two teams in the Super Bowl had Michael Oher and Ryan Harris playing LT, is a LT really worth the #1 overall pick? If Taylor Decker or Jason Spriggs turn into B+ left tackles, was taking at OT #1 worth it?

Just my own personal philosophy on OTs.

 

Sabertooth

Footballguy
Packers badly need a pass rusher so they can keep Matthews inside, where he is tougher to gameplan away from. Or they need and inside backer who can allow Matthews to move back outside. Would love another defense pick.

 

FUBAR

Footballguy
1. Titans-Joey Bosa--Mike Mularkey retained as head coach, dropping the interim label. Can you feel the excitement? :mellow: Titans have a new GM, Jon Robinson, who spent two seasons in Tampa, after twelve in New England. In New England, he learned that big defenders are better than small, and in Tampa he learned you can burn money in free agency if you aren't careful. Bosa is nice in any scheme, and the Titans hope he can be their JJ Watt. He's a DE that also happens to be white, so you know, pretty much the same guy. The Titans go and get another tackle in free agency, and build rtheir D around Bosa's all around game and hustle. He is already their best front 7 player
Casey would disagree.

I won't say "no way" - If the Titans want a safe pick at the top, okay.

Maybe it's just that I dislike Ohio State but I don't think Bosa will become a top player in the NFL. Good player sure, maybe an occasional pro-bowler, but not a truly elite game changer which makes him not worthy of the top pick. Ideally, they trade down into 3-8 and add more picks, either this year or next. But if we don't want to project trades, Tunsil seems the more logical pick.
Well, with Tunsil you guaranteed to not get a game changer.

I should also have said in the Titans writeup, I think the left tackle position is losing value. Forever, it was left tackle was the best O-linemen out there, and the RT was an earth mover, because he was more of a run blocker, and had help from the TE.

This was based on the QB dropping 5 and 7 steps, from under center, and dominant right ends facing off against the LT one on one.

Now, it's quick passes from the shotgun. Watt and Mack line up at left end more often than not. The lines are blurred. Inside pass rush is more important than outside. Manning and Brady step up in front of edge rushers all day long, but both get brutalized by inside pressure.

I think RT is just as important as LT nowadays, and probably has been for a while. The two teams in the Super Bowl had Michael Oher and Ryan Harris playing LT, is a LT really worth the #1 overall pick? If Taylor Decker or Jason Spriggs turn into B+ left tackles, was taking at OT #1 worth it?

Just my own personal philosophy on OTs.
Fair comments and analysis for sure. I wish I liked bosa more than I do. But there are 5 players the Titans could/should draft, not including the QBs who could also go top 7. Any of the 5 would be alright with me, I just prefer the Titans to work on their offense right now.

 

Bracie Smathers

Footballguy
1. Titans-Joey Bosa--Mike Mularkey retained as head coach, dropping the interim label. Can you feel the excitement? :mellow: Titans have a new GM, Jon Robinson, who spent two seasons in Tampa, after twelve in New England. In New England, he learned that big defenders are better than small, and in Tampa he learned you can burn money in free agency if you aren't careful. Bosa is nice in any scheme, and the Titans hope he can be their JJ Watt. He's a DE that also happens to be white, so you know, pretty much the same guy. The Titans go and get another tackle in free agency, and build rtheir D around Bosa's all around game and hustle. He is already their best front 7 player
Casey would disagree.

I won't say "no way" - If the Titans want a safe pick at the top, okay.

Maybe it's just that I dislike Ohio State but I don't think Bosa will become a top player in the NFL. Good player sure, maybe an occasional pro-bowler, but not a truly elite game changer which makes him not worthy of the top pick. Ideally, they trade down into 3-8 and add more picks, either this year or next. But if we don't want to project trades, Tunsil seems the more logical pick.
Well, with Tunsil you guaranteed to not get a game changer.

I should also have said in the Titans writeup, I think the left tackle position is losing value. Forever, it was left tackle was the best O-linemen out there, and the RT was an earth mover, because he was more of a run blocker, and had help from the TE.

This was based on the QB dropping 5 and 7 steps, from under center, and dominant right ends facing off against the LT one on one.

Now, it's quick passes from the shotgun. Watt and Mack line up at left end more often than not. The lines are blurred. Inside pass rush is more important than outside. Manning and Brady step up in front of edge rushers all day long, but both get brutalized by inside pressure.

I think RT is just as important as LT nowadays, and probably has been for a while. The two teams in the Super Bowl had Michael Oher and Ryan Harris playing LT, is a LT really worth the #1 overall pick? If Taylor Decker or Jason Spriggs turn into B+ left tackles, was taking at OT #1 worth it?

Just my own personal philosophy on OTs.
Fair comments and analysis for sure. I wish I liked bosa more than I do. But there are 5 players the Titans could/should draft, not including the QBs who could also go top 7. Any of the 5 would be alright with me, I just prefer the Titans to work on their offense right now.
I am not sold on the QBs. I wish I was but I think that they all could fall farther than we expect. Goff doesn't seem nearly as good as Mariota who was the 2nd QB taken last year and last year's draft didn't have some of the blue-chip players at the top that this class does.

If Goff, Bosa, Tunsil, and Ramsey (who I believe is the best player in this draft) were in last year's draft then I am not entirely sure Goff would have gone high in the first round and I am sure he would never have been projected as a top-two pick.

The other two guys considered 1st round QBs in this class... shakes head. It is possible they get taken in the first round and that they even go early in the first round but seriously. Are people sold on them?

This QB class is dicey IMHO. I 'like' Goff the best of this class but I am concerned about some things. I started out liking Paxton Lynch but have backed away. I 'like' some things about Wentz but not enough to think he's worthy of being the first QB taken but that doesn't mean I'm in love with Goff.

Just not sure the other two QBs are valued as high in NFL circles.

 

massraider

Footballguy
There were a load of questions last year about both QBs.

This time last year, few thought Mariota was going to Tennessee.

Teams cannot wait around for bulletproof prospects. If you don't have a QB, you're going to get fired. Plain and simple.

Also, people start picking apart the QBs.

Very, very few people liked Carr. Teddy got picked apart. Just the way things are

 

Bracie Smathers

Footballguy
There were a load of questions last year about both QBs.

This time last year, few thought Mariota was going to Tennessee.

Teams cannot wait around for bulletproof prospects. If you don't have a QB, you're going to get fired. Plain and simple.

Also, people start picking apart the QBs.

Very, very few people liked Carr. Teddy got picked apart. Just the way things are
Winston had, still has, and will always have, that 'alleged' rape hanging over his head. (See Peyton Manning thread.)

If he had no character concerns there wouldn't have been any discussion.

Mariota was/is the poster boy of perfect character. The only negative on him was the system he came from and whether or not it would transfer.

This draft class all have the 'system' issue but there are 'other' things about each of them that I'm not going to break down.

And by bringing up Teddy and Carr, you hammer home my point. Those guys fell in the 2014 draft and I think they should have fallen because their were concerns about both of them. And don't forget Johnny Manziel also fell in that draft class, as he should have.

Like I said, I think this draft class is dicey.

 

efactor

Footballguy
I hope there is "no way" SF takes a QB other than Goff at 7. Not high on any of the others and they can't afford to miss on this pick. I know I'm in the minority but I saw enough in Gabbert this year to want to give him a full season under a competent offensive coach with a decent O-line before I spend a top pick on a QB. They have a ton of cap space to improve the line in FA so along with Staley, Tiller, Kilgore, and the possible return of Davis, the line could be dramatically improved over the sieve they were last year. Plus, if Trenton Brown continues to improve, RT could be a strength. Plus, they are going to suck again next year, so they will probably be drafting in the top ten again, and can address the QB position if Gabbert is a fail.

I would love Jack to fall to 7, which is a possibility. If not, I hope they trade down a few spots to get Spence. They need an edge rusher to pair with Lynch. Treadwell would be fun but I really want them to work on the defense first.

 

massraider

Footballguy
There were a load of questions last year about both QBs.

This time last year, few thought Mariota was going to Tennessee.

Teams cannot wait around for bulletproof prospects. If you don't have a QB, you're going to get fired. Plain and simple.

Also, people start picking apart the QBs.

Very, very few people liked Carr. Teddy got picked apart. Just the way things are
Winston had, still has, and will always have, that 'alleged' rape hanging over his head. (See Peyton Manning thread.)If he had no character concerns there wouldn't have been any discussion.

Mariota was/is the poster boy of perfect character. The only negative on him was the system he came from and whether or not it would transfer.

This draft class all have the 'system' issue but there are 'other' things about each of them that I'm not going to break down.

And by bringing up Teddy and Carr, you hammer home my point. Those guys fell in the 2014 draft and I think they should have fallen because their were concerns about both of them. And don't forget Johnny Manziel also fell in that draft class, as he should have.

Like I said, I think this draft class is dicey.
This is selective memory.

You were betting last year on this board that Mariota was falling in the draft.

People were tearing apart Winston's decision-making and Mariota's lack of film making NFL throws.

I have no doubt you can find flaws in their game. You can do that with every QB.

Nature of the NFL is that they get overdrafted.

 

Bracie Smathers

Footballguy
There were a load of questions last year about both QBs.

This time last year, few thought Mariota was going to Tennessee.

Teams cannot wait around for bulletproof prospects. If you don't have a QB, you're going to get fired. Plain and simple.

Also, people start picking apart the QBs.

Very, very few people liked Carr. Teddy got picked apart. Just the way things are
Winston had, still has, and will always have, that 'alleged' rape hanging over his head. (See Peyton Manning thread.)If he had no character concerns there wouldn't have been any discussion.

Mariota was/is the poster boy of perfect character. The only negative on him was the system he came from and whether or not it would transfer.

This draft class all have the 'system' issue but there are 'other' things about each of them that I'm not going to break down.

And by bringing up Teddy and Carr, you hammer home my point. Those guys fell in the 2014 draft and I think they should have fallen because their were concerns about both of them. And don't forget Johnny Manziel also fell in that draft class, as he should have.

Like I said, I think this draft class is dicey.
This is selective memory.

You were betting last year on this board that Mariota was falling in the draft.

People were tearing apart Winston's decision-making and Mariota's lack of film making NFL throws.

I have no doubt you can find flaws in their game. You can do that with every QB.

Nature of the NFL is that they get overdrafted.
I was a huge Mariota fan dating back to 2013 when rumors were that he would come out early. I wanted him but felt the Manziel backlash elevated his squeaky clean character especially when he came out in a draft with Winston.

You were the one questioning Mariota's ability with intermediate and long passes.

Don't misinterpret my take last year.

I was concerned with talk about the Browns blowing two first-round draft picks in order to move up for Marcus, just so they could move on from the mistake of Manziel.

I don't fear anyone moving up to take Goff because I think it is too risky of a move. I know the Browns will probably take a QB and it will probably be Goff but I have concerns about him.

Also, if he were in last year's draft. Would you have him ranked higher than Winston and Mariota or would you rank him as the third QB?

 

Yenrub

Footballguy
No way the Giants take Mackensie Alexander at 10!!

I couldn't resist

I think they are going to resign Prince or at least they are going to try to
What about Ayers and JPP? Whats the word? They have the money.
One of the beat writers thinks the Giants are going to after Vernon (MIA) and resign Ayers

Another beat writer thinks the Giants will offer JPP a one year prove it deal and draft a DE at 10

So basically no one knows anything yet
I have to say, if I imagine teams that would go after Vernon, the Giants would be at the bottom of that list (among teams that can afford him).

Giants D-line all look the same to me, long and impressive. Vernon is very good, but he's short, by their standards.
You are right. The Giants are typically a size speed type team.

I didn't realize that Vernon was only 6'2.

Pro football focus has Vernon ranked #2 on their edge defender free agent top 10. JPP and Ayers are #3 and #4. Seems like the Giants would be better off signing their own guys if they can and pick up a DE in the draft some place

 

massraider

Footballguy
There were a load of questions last year about both QBs.

This time last year, few thought Mariota was going to Tennessee.

Teams cannot wait around for bulletproof prospects. If you don't have a QB, you're going to get fired. Plain and simple.

Also, people start picking apart the QBs.

Very, very few people liked Carr. Teddy got picked apart. Just the way things are
Winston had, still has, and will always have, that 'alleged' rape hanging over his head. (See Peyton Manning thread.)If he had no character concerns there wouldn't have been any discussion.

Mariota was/is the poster boy of perfect character. The only negative on him was the system he came from and whether or not it would transfer.

This draft class all have the 'system' issue but there are 'other' things about each of them that I'm not going to break down.

And by bringing up Teddy and Carr, you hammer home my point. Those guys fell in the 2014 draft and I think they should have fallen because their were concerns about both of them. And don't forget Johnny Manziel also fell in that draft class, as he should have.

Like I said, I think this draft class is dicey.
This is selective memory.You were betting last year on this board that Mariota was falling in the draft.

People were tearing apart Winston's decision-making and Mariota's lack of film making NFL throws.

I have no doubt you can find flaws in their game. You can do that with every QB.

Nature of the NFL is that they get overdrafted.
I was a huge Mariota fan dating back to 2013 when rumors were that he would come out early. I wanted him but felt the Manziel backlash elevated his squeaky clean character especially when he came out in a draft with Winston. You were the one questioning Mariota's ability with intermediate and long passes.

Don't misinterpret my take last year.

I was concerned with talk about the Browns blowing two first-round draft picks in order to move up for Marcus, just so they could move on from the mistake of Manziel.

I don't fear anyone moving up to take Goff because I think it is too risky of a move. I know the Browns will probably take a QB and it will probably be Goff but I have concerns about him.

Also, if he were in last year's draft. Would you have him ranked higher than Winston and Mariota or would you rank him as the third QB?
To be honest, my rankings aren't worth diddly. And I don't have rankings, anyway.

I'm a fan of the process, and a big follower of the draft for 25 years. I am very interested in the business of draft projections, rankings, and a bemused observer of the 'common knowledge' that everyone has at ALL points of the pre-draft process.

My main point is that it's much more likely that a QB rises in the pre-draft process, than the other way around.

You tell me you don't like the QBs? Sounds good to me.

The NFL doesn't need to agree they are all franchise QBs. Just one desperate GM with no QB.

 

Bracie Smathers

Footballguy
The latest 'On the Couch' podcast, talking draft with Josh Norris and Sigmond Bloom.  

Norris doesn't think any of the quarterbacks are worth being drafted in the first round.

------

Feb 15 20162016 Volume#15a - On The Couch 02.15.2016 (#2622)In This Episode: Sigmund Bloom and Josh Norris (Rotoworld) talk NFL Draft. Topics Include: Members of the top tier of 2016 Draft talent, Is Ezekiel Elliott on the Gurley/Peterson level as a prospect, Are any QBs worth a first-round pick, plus more!

 

Insein

Footballguy
They shouldn't be maybe based on other players being better rated but he's fooling himself if he thinks that's even possible. Too many teams need a QB to wait till round 2. 

 

DocHolliday

Footballguy
They shouldn't be maybe based on other players being better rated but he's fooling himself if he thinks that's even possible. Too many teams need a QB to wait till round 2.
QBs will be drafted too early.  Sometimes it works out.  Sometimes it does not.  You have to take chances when you do not have a QB and there are a few desperate teams again this season.

 

Hawkeye21

Footballguy
I'm not saying No Way the Bears pick a QB but I think it would be dumb.  Far too many other positions on the team that need help.  Culter is good enough and they have him under contract for a couple years yet.

 

massraider

Footballguy
That's really my only point in relation to the QBs.

They rarely drop in the draft.  Same with corners, tackles, and pass rushers (at any position).

There may not even be a consensus top QB, meaning that some teams will have different QBs at the top of the draft.  If the Eagles rank Paxon Lynch as their top-rated QB, who's to say he doesn't go #13?  Frankly, if he had been at the Senior Bowl, he might be the one soaking up all the buzz Wentz has now. 

If Lynch and Wentz out-perform Goff at the combine, and everyone says they have better arms, the groupthink could change dramatically.  Lynch's stock took a beating because of the Auburn game, NFL teams might actually look at more than one game, and I could easily see him going top 10.  

 

Bracie Smathers

Footballguy
That's really my only point in relation to the QBs.

They rarely drop in the draft.  Same with corners, tackles, and pass rushers (at any position).

There may not even be a consensus top QB, meaning that some teams will have different QBs at the top of the draft.  If the Eagles rank Paxon Lynch as their top-rated QB, who's to say he doesn't go #13?  Frankly, if he had been at the Senior Bowl, he might be the one soaking up all the buzz Wentz has now. 

If Lynch and Wentz out-perform Goff at the combine, and everyone says they have better arms, the groupthink could change dramatically.  Lynch's stock took a beating because of the Auburn game, NFL teams might actually look at more than one game, and I could easily see him going top 10.  
MR, you claim to have followed the draft for a quarter century.  If you have, then you know that there isn't a consensus top QB in this draft.  You also know that there isn't an RG III or even a Winston or Mariota.  

People are basing their over evaluating of the QBs based off of need rather than talent and have nothing other than repetition of need over talent to justify high rankings.  Look no further than two drafts ago when early projections made the exact same excuse.  Do you recall the early projections of Ryan Nassib going in the 1st round to the Giants?  Or Matt Barkley as a top-ten pick?  

The top QB of that draft was E.J. Manuel who wasn't selected until the 16th pick.  No other QB was taken until Geno Smith in the 2nd round.  Barkley went in the 4th and Nassib went in the 5th.  

Need doesn't always drive over evaluating the QB position to the point that it forces a team to take the next Christian Ponder or Blaine Gabbert in the first round.   

Like I said, I concede the Browns will probably take a QB and it will probably be Goff but he's not nearly as good as Mariota or RG III, the last two QBs taken with the 2nd picks in the draft.  

 

JaxBill

Footballguy
Bosa, Myles Jack, and Jalen Ramsey all off the board before #5 is about the worst-case scenario for the Jaguars.

 

massraider

Footballguy
Bracie Smathers said:
MR, you claim to have followed the draft for a quarter century.  If you have, then you know that there isn't a consensus top QB in this draft.  You also know that there isn't an RG III or even a Winston or Mariota.  

People are basing their over evaluating of the QBs based off of need rather than talent and have nothing other than repetition of need over talent to justify high rankings.  Look no further than two drafts ago when early projections made the exact same excuse.  Do you recall the early projections of Ryan Nassib going in the 1st round to the Giants?  Or Matt Barkley as a top-ten pick?  


I remember Barkley being ranked even higher than that, going into his last year.  Tragically, he had to go out and play that season, and his draft stock was no where near 1st round status by April.  Mayock had him ranked 43rd.

I remember Nassib being mocked to the Bills, because his college coach was there.  He was ranked 50th by Mayock.  Nassib was never thought of as a franchise QB, people picked up on the connection, and the Bills took another QB, Manuel.  Your example of a QB falling in Nassib really doesn't fly, because he was only being mocked to that one team, and for a reason that apparently didn't matter, as the Bills went a different direction, but STILL overdrafted a QB.  Not for nothing, your example helps my point.  

People are doing the same with Hackenburg, but in the 2nd round this year, to BIll O'Brien and the Texans.  Chances are, they are wrong about that as well. 

Drafting a QB gives your team the best chance to improve, and any GM and coach that doesn't have a QB, they are going to be absolutely sure they aren't passing on a franchise starter before they look elsewhere.  These guys are human, and they want to keep their jobs.  Would Ray Farmer and Pettine still have jobs if Carr or Teddy were on the Browns?  

 

Bracie Smathers

Footballguy
I remember Barkley being ranked even higher than that, going into his last year.  Tragically, he had to go out and play that season, and his draft stock was no where near 1st round status by April.  Mayock had him ranked 43rd.

I remember Nassib being mocked to the Bills, because his college coach was there.  He was ranked 50th by Mayock.  Nassib was never thought of as a franchise QB, people picked up on the connection, and the Bills took another QB, Manuel.  Your example of a QB falling in Nassib really doesn't fly, because he was only being mocked to that one team, and for a reason that apparently didn't matter, as the Bills went a different direction, but STILL overdrafted a QB.  Not for nothing, your example helps my point.  

People are doing the same with Hackenburg, but in the 2nd round this year, to BIll O'Brien and the Texans.  Chances are, they are wrong about that as well. 

Drafting a QB gives your team the best chance to improve, and any GM and coach that doesn't have a QB, they are going to be absolutely sure they aren't passing on a franchise starter before they look elsewhere.  These guys are human, and they want to keep their jobs.  Would Ray Farmer and Pettine still have jobs if Carr or Teddy were on the Browns?  





4
Teams know draft history and how to analyze better than anyone here.

E.J. Manuel has not worked out.  Gabbert and Ponder didn't work out and plenty of guys who have been ranked high, fell in the draft.  

In this draft, Christian Heckenbegh and Connor Cook have already dropped from first round status.  Barkley was still flirting to get drafted in the first round at this point in the 2013 draft.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000164796/article/matt-barkley-ill-remember-nfl-draft-for-a-long-time

..."I'm going to remember this weekend for a long time and so are the teams that didn't draft me,"Barkley told Scott Wolf of the Los Angeles Daily News on Saturday, after being selected in the fourth round (at No. 98).

Barkley sunk like a stone through the first three rounds of the 2013 NFL Draft.


It is very early in the process, heck we haven't even had the Combine yet.  Teams realize that the QB is the prize and that GMs who reach to find a QB fail more often than succeed.  Failing to find a QB is bad enough but that mistake is multiplied if they bypass a blue chip prospect.  

I'm just not sold on Wentz or Lynch going as high as others but concede Goff probably goes top-two.

 

FUBAR

Footballguy
I am not sold on the QBs. I wish I was but I think that they all could fall farther than we expect. Goff doesn't seem nearly as good as Mariota who was the 2nd QB taken last year and last year's draft didn't have some of the blue-chip players at the top that this class does.

If Goff, Bosa, Tunsil, and Ramsey (who I believe is the best player in this draft) were in last year's draft then I am not entirely sure Goff would have gone high in the first round and I am sure he would never have been projected as a top-two pick.

The other two guys considered 1st round QBs in this class... shakes head. It is possible they get taken in the first round and that they even go early in the first round but seriously. Are people sold on them?

This QB class is dicey IMHO. I 'like' Goff the best of this class but I am concerned about some things. I started out liking Paxton Lynch but have backed away. I 'like' some things about Wentz but not enough to think he's worthy of being the first QB taken but that doesn't mean I'm in love with Goff.

Just not sure the other two QBs are valued as high in NFL circles.
or maybe not.

 

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