Carter_Can_Fly
Footballguy
Does the league MVP now lean towards Urlacher as he again shows why he is the best defensive player in the league?
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Now who is leading the MVP race and why? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Carter_Can_Fly
- Start date
Jagerbomber
Footballguy
Carter_Can_Fly
Footballguy
GoodI will also add P. Manning.So we have:Urlacher, Smith, Manninganymore?
BoulderBob
Footballguy
Urlacher, McNabb, Smith, Manning, the usual suspects...one of the 4 will win the thing...
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Steve Smith or McNabb are the MVP right now. No one else should even be in the running.
Carter_Can_Fly
Footballguy
I think if Westbrook could stay healthy for the rest of the season and Philly does well he will enter the MVP talk because he is equally important as McNabb.
Carter_Can_Fly
Footballguy
teams that are 5-0 and 6-0 deserve a player that is playing best for their team to at least be in the running; enter Manning and Urlacher.
BigTex
Don't mess with Texas
Since Steve Smith has been back how many have they lost?
broncofan13000
Footballguy
I was just coming in this thread to post the same thing.Champ for DPOY.
Carter_Can_Fly
Footballguy
Bailey at this point should be in the running for defensive player of the year but tough to say he is the MVP only because of his position and the ceiling it has in reference to other positions.
Kilgore Trout
Footballguy
Its going to be a three horse race for DPOY. Peppers is having a hell of a season. MVP is up in the air at this poing, but Urlacher is in the running (with Manning, McNabb and Smith).
Steve Dallas
Footballguy
Torry Holt?
valhallan
Footballguy
Fixed for posterity.
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BoulderBob
Footballguy
Urlacher??He isn't even the best LB on his team! No sacks, INTs, or FFs before this game and the tackles have been below average
Urlacher is a freak, you have no idea what your writing about...
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el-gato-grande
Footballguy
Corrected for accuracy.
Compromise?
Carter_Can_Fly
Footballguy
This is a great addition. I will try to add some teirs.Teir 11)Smith2) McNabb3) Manning4) Urlacher5) HoltTeir 26) Brees7) Bulger8) HasselbackTeir 39) Tomlinson10) Westbrook11)Brady12) LeftwichTeir 413) Palmer14) Pennington15) Coles16) Mcnair
valhallan
Footballguy
The only guy mentioned in this thread that has turned an entire franchise around.3-13.5-1.Think about it.PennStater77
Footballguy
Everyone is saying Steve Smith, but what has he done? I know he opens up the passing game for Delhomme, but he needs to have a few better games...
To me right now:
Torrie Holt
Drew Brees
Those two guys are on 5-1 and 4-2 teams and if they aren't, those teams are nowhere.
To me right now:
Torrie Holt
Drew Brees
Those two guys are on 5-1 and 4-2 teams and if they aren't, those teams are nowhere.
Carter_Can_Fly
Footballguy
I love D. Brees but I don't think NO's was a 3-13 team last season. That record was not any indication of what type of team and organization they had been prior to Katrina and the Mcallister injury.8-8 in 20048-8 in 20039-7 in 20027-9 in 2001This team and organization over the last 4 years has been middle of the pack. D. Brees deserves much of the credit for what this team is doing but last year was not any indication of NO's being a bad franchise and or team.
The Gator
Footballguy
This is the correct answer.
SproutDaddy
Footballguy
valhallan
Footballguy
As a diehard Saints fan, I wholeheartedly agree that they have had plenty of talent for the last few years and '05 was an aberration.But, you could never convince me that they would be 5-1 this year without Drew Brees. Nearly every game has been a nail-biter and he's marched them to victory every time he's had a chance.The difference between Brooks and Brees is night and day. Seems pretty valuable to me.I love D. Brees but I don't think NO's was a 3-13 team last season. That record was not any indication of what type of team and organization they had been prior to Katrina and the Mcallister injury.8-8 in 20048-8 in 20039-7 in 20027-9 in 2001This team and organization over the last 4 years has been middle of the pack. D. Brees deserves much of the credit for what this team is doing but last year was not any indication of NO's being a bad franchise and or team.
Pygmy Marmoset
Footballguy
Brees passer rating fourth quarter only through 6 games: 127.7. Nuff said.As a diehard Saints fan, I wholeheartedly agree that they have had plenty of talent for the last few years and '05 was an aberration.But, you could never convince me that they would be 5-1 this year without Drew Brees. Nearly every game has been a nail-biter and he's marched them to victory every time he's had a chance.I love D. Brees but I don't think NO's was a 3-13 team last season. That record was not any indication of what type of team and organization they had been prior to Katrina and the Mcallister injury.8-8 in 2004
3-13.
5-1.
Think about it.
8-8 in 2003
9-7 in 2002
7-9 in 2001
This team and organization over the last 4 years has been middle of the pack. D. Brees deserves much of the credit for what this team is doing but last year was not any indication of NO's being a bad franchise and or team.
The difference between Brooks and Brees is night and day. Seems pretty valuable to me.
He's 5th in the league in yards despite missing two games and playing two games at less than 100%. If you get a chance to see the highlites of his receptions this week it's worth the time to view. They ran a variation of the hitch where Smith fakes the hitch getting the CB to bite and then blows past him to make a grab downfield. I'm not sure how defenses are going to handle him with Carter in the fold and Keyshawn catching everything in sight. Sunday Carter toasted Rolle. Carter looked like he was at full speed about 20 yards down field and kicked it into fifth gear. The separation he got in the 10 yards was amazing. That will prove to be huge for Smith.
Champ Bailey down?Here's the big thing- you can't just judge players on what they directly do for the team... you have to judge them on what they INDIRECTLY do for the team. I mean, imagine that there's this mythical RB who can only be stopped by stacking 11 in the box. Let's say his team plays, and the other team stacks 11 in the box all day long, so this RB only gets 50 yards while his QB gets 500 yards passing. That RB is still the MVP of the team, because without him, teams don't alter their gameplan to put 11 in the box, and without that, the QB doesn't throw for 500. That's how WRs and CBs help teams out- they don't touch the ball (or ballcarrier) nearly as much as LBs or RBs, but they have a DRAMATIC impact on how the other team plays the game.With that said, let's look at Carolina.TannerBoyle said:
Weeks 1-2: 9.5 points per game, 243 yards per game
Weeks 3-6: 22.5 points per game, 344 yards per game
Seems like Steve Smith is making a pretty strong case to me.
Cornerback is the most important position in the entire NFL. That's not really debatable- GMs spend more money on elite CBs than any other position, including QB. Since GMs are, in general, very smart people (and since, furthermore, the NFL tends to be a pretty efficient market), we can conclude that the relative value of an elite CB compared to an average CB is much greater than the relative value of an elite QB compared to an average QB.So if CBs are the most important position, and Champ Bailey is pretty much without question the best CB in the entire NFL, why can't he be in the running for MVP?
When Champ Bailey is on the field, opposing QBs will not test him. The fact that they won't test him allows Denver to bring a safety down rather than providing help coverage on that side of the field. Bringing the safety down provides an 8th defender in the box, which in turn helps shut down the running game. Furthermore, Denver runs a hybrid Tampa 2 defense, and in the Tampa 2, solid tackling by the corners is absolutely vital, since they get left out on an island on the sides of the field a lot of the time, and if an RB beats the LBs to the corner and gets by the CB, he's going to get a huge gain. Champ Bailey is probably the best tackling CB in the NFL- so as you can see, Champ Bailey's mere presence on the field probably does as much to help Denver's RUN DEFENSE as Brian Urlacher's does. And this isn't even analyzing his impact on the passing game (his ability to take away half of the field, as well as those two huge INTs in the red zone the last two weeks).
If you took two essentially league-average defenses, with league-average players at every position, and added Champ Bailey to one and Brian Urlacher to another, with both playing exactly the way they're playing now, I would argue that the defense with Champ Bailey would perform better on the field than the one with Brian Urlacher. In fact, I'm not even convinced that Urlacher is the best LB in the league so far this season- I haven't seen much of that Tatupu kid this year, but what I *HAVE* seen has been incredible. Did you know that his INT against St. Louis came when he was covering Torry Holt? How many teams would trust their LB to cover Torry Holt? And how many of those LBs would actually be able to do it?!
Not to beat a dead horse here, but you're saying that Bailey and Peppers aren't even among the top 16 players for MVP consideration? You'd pick a QB with a 64.1 passer rating (McNair- his passer rating is right between Frye, Vick, Harrington, and Plummer) over Peppers and Bailey? You'd pick the QB of a 3-3 team over those guys? Or a QB averaging 6.4 yards per attempt?Seriously, defense is HALF of football, so let's see some defensive players on these lists! Tommy Harris, Champ Bailey, Julius Peppers, Lofa Tatupu, Shawn Merriman, and Chris McAllister are all having phenominal seasons so far, from what I've seen of them. Let's send a little bit of love their way.
He's averaging 112.5 yards per game. That's best in the league, more than 15 yards per game ahead of the #2 WR, and he hasn't even been 100% healthy yet. What more do you want from the guy? Does he need to average 150 yards per game before he gets some love?Here's how I'd stack them:
Tier 1-
Bailey
McNabb
Steve Smith
Tier 2-
Manning
Peppers
Tommie Harris
Shawn Merriman
Tier 3-
Brees
Holt
Tier 4 and below doesn't really matter.
meanjoegreen
Footballguy
Defense wise, I would put Julius Peppers before Urlacher. Peppers has 8 sacks so far this season, and is playing like a complete beast.
Did you not see that game last night? He pretty much took it over. That my friend is a bad, bad man.Urlacher??
faulkfan
Footballguy
Using this rational, Ben Gordon should have been the NBA MVP two years ago when he lead the league in fourth quarter scoring.I like Brees alot, but here are some reasons I think he won't win the MVP unless NO goes nearly perfect the rest of the way and he plays flawlessly.Brees passer rating fourth quarter only through 6 games: 127.7. Nuff said.As a diehard Saints fan, I wholeheartedly agree that they have had plenty of talent for the last few years and '05 was an aberration.But, you could never convince me that they would be 5-1 this year without Drew Brees. Nearly every game has been a nail-biter and he's marched them to victory every time he's had a chance.I love D. Brees but I don't think NO's was a 3-13 team last season. That record was not any indication of what type of team and organization they had been prior to Katrina and the Mcallister injury.8-8 in 2004
3-13.
5-1.
Think about it.
8-8 in 2003
9-7 in 2002
7-9 in 2001
This team and organization over the last 4 years has been middle of the pack. D. Brees deserves much of the credit for what this team is doing but last year was not any indication of NO's being a bad franchise and or team.
The difference between Brooks and Brees is night and day. Seems pretty valuable to me.
1) Haslett is gone so the coaching change has to get some of the credit for the turnaround.
2) McAllister is playing like his old self after being injured last year.
3) Having a consistent #2 WR beside Horn who plays every play rather than nurses hamstring injuries 85% of the time has made a difference.
4) Horn was hurt parts of last year so having him back can only help.
5) The whole Katrina tragedy has to be accounted for in last years record. No matter how you slice it I can only assume it was extremely upsetting to have to uproot your family and franchise and play 16 road games. Take that away and you just don't know how good NO was last year.
6) Reggie Bush. I don't think he has been all that everyone expected, but he does draw attention from opposing defenses and has to be factored into the defensive gameplan, which leaves room for Brees to work.
7) This is most important of all...the media doesn't follow Brees like they do Manning and McNabb. Manning is a media darling and as long as he doesn't completely implode he will be in the running if Indy does fairly well. McNabb has the media attention for mostly sidestepping the TO issue and playng pretty well with what was considered a forgettable cast of WRs. The media will pick the MVP and thses two are favorites of theirs.
As I said, I like Brees, but I don't think that the turnaround in NO is all his to take credit for. Lets be honest here...it doesn't take much of a QB to be an upgrade over Brooks, but I don't want people thinking I'm slamming Brees, I just can't see the media giving him the MVP in this case.
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fsufan
Footballguy
that is an old Primetime saying. We FSU fans where saying that when he was at FSU
Defensive MVP = Julius Peppers - he has taken over multiple games this year.
Mudcrab
Footballguy
You make some valid points, but on this particular one, I think the media will love to pick up and run with Brees. It would/will be such a feel good story they won't be able to resist it.
Wheelhouse
Footballguy
I agree that Peppers is ahead of Urlacher. There's also a Defensive Player of the Year award to shoot for for those guys. The MVP in my mind is Steve Smith right now, followed by McNabb and then Manning. Rex Luthor just lost a ton of credibility last night.quite honestly, the only post in this entire thread that makes any sense. McNabb is so far ahead of anyone else, it's barely a discussion. his numbers, his leadership, his (lack of) talent around him, and his team's overall improvement seal the deal.holt and smith are in the conversation, but only for the sake of argument.
Yup.McNabb's numbers are nearly on a record pace. The Eagles were picked to finish last in their division by most.That can't be said for the Bears or Panthers.As for Brees, he's playing great, but they didn't have McAllister, Colston, or Bush last year, either.
Where was he the first 5 games and the first half? Urlacher struggles to fight off blocks. I didn't say anything about this game but he did have one great half. One great half doesn't get you a MVP. I said Urlacher didn't have any sacks, INTs, or FFs before this game and his tackles were below average. Don't let the facts get in the way of your argumentDid you not see that game last night? He pretty much took it over. That my friend is a bad, bad man.Urlacher??
