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Obama is not serious about immigration reform (1 Viewer)

timschochet

Footballguy
This morning President Obama was at the border talking about immigration reform. This means of course a "path to citizenship" for illegal immigrants. Most people who have read my views on this subject know that I am in favor of this. Most Americans, both Republican and Democrat, are not.

But Obama is a fraud on this issue. He could have pushed for this when he had a majority in control of House and Senate. In fact, he promised Latino groups he would do so in his 2008 campaign. Instead, under the Obama administration, more illegals have been deported than at any time in history- according to the Los Angeles Times, 19% more than during the Bush years.

The only reason Obama is even bringing this up is to solidify his support among Hispanics for the upcoming election. He wants the Republicans to make nasty comments that some will perceive as racist (no doubt some of them will.) But when push comes to shove the Democrats have no interest in alienating their union supporters, who largely agree with conservatives on this particular issue. (A growing number of blacks, according to polls, are also either ambivalent or outright anti-illegal.)

The Democrats are treating the Latinos exactly the way they treated the blacks prior to 1964: we're really not interested in helping your cause, but hey, where are you gonna turn?

 
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This is from an article by Ruben Navarette, who is outspoken about this issue:

For Barack Obama, that subject is immigration. He's terrible at it. He doesn't seem to understand it. And he doesn't appear to care about it. So he settles for using it as a political tool.

There is a sizable community of immigrants -- legal and illegal -- in Illinois. Yet, during his stint in the state Senate, Obama demonstrated little interest in the issue and proposed no bills specifically aimed at immigrants.

When Obama ascended to the U.S. Senate, he voted for a so-called "poison pill" amendment to a comprehensive immigration reform bill that would "sunset" a proposed guest worker program after five years. All of this was to please organized labor, but it doomed the compromise.

After becoming president, Obama broke his promise to Latino voters to make immigration reform a top priority and address it early in his administration. Then he added injury to insult by racking up a record number of deportations -- nearly 800,000 in his first two years in office. The Department of Homeland Security deports about 1,000 people a day.

We know this because, in a futile attempt to convince Obama's critics that he's tough on border security, DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano brags about those figures in speeches and before Congress like a proud fisherman posing for a photo while holding the catch of the day.

And how do you get to the point where you're deporting more illegal immigrants than any U.S. president since Dwight D. Eisenhower launched "Operation *******" in 1954? You use local police as a force multiplier, letting municipalities enforce immigration law and deliver to you the apprehended immigrants -- while you're suing the state of Arizona for doing the same thing.

The facts listed above really can't be disputed. Obama appears to care very little about this issue, except in terms of political gain for himself and his party. Latinos are being exploited.

 
It is a very good thing that he has deported more illegals than any admin in 50 years. Any serious attempt at reforming our immigration standards has to be combined with enforcement of the laws against illegals. I don't see the outrage here.

 
The Democrats are treating the Latinos exactly the way they treated the blacks prior to 1964: we're really not interested in helping your cause, but hey, where are you gonna turn?
Shhh... it's working with gays, too. Don't ruin it for everyone.
 
It is a very good thing that he has deported more illegals than any admin in 50 years. Any serious attempt at reforming our immigration standards has to be combined with enforcement of the laws against illegals. I don't see the outrage here.
So you haven't met Tim before?
 
It is a very good thing that he has deported more illegals than any admin in 50 years. Any serious attempt at reforming our immigration standards has to be combined with enforcement of the laws against illegals. I don't see the outrage here.
I'm not outraged by this. It's what the majority wants. I only note that this plus Obama's lack of push for immigration reform makes him out to be a fraud on this issue.
 
But Obama is a fraud on this issue. He could have pushed for this when he had a majority in control of House and Senate.
I'm not necessarily saying that Obama isn't a fraud on this, but he was busy with HCR when the Democrats controlled both chambers of congress. It took every single dime of political capital he had at his disposal to get that through. There is absolutely no way, none at all, that he could have also gotten a wildly-unpopular immigration reform package through Congress as well, even if he genuinely wanted to.
 
But Obama is a fraud on this issue. He could have pushed for this when he had a majority in control of House and Senate.
I'm not necessarily saying that Obama isn't a fraud on this, but he was busy with HCR when the Democrats controlled both chambers of congress. It took every single dime of political capital he had at his disposal to get that through. There is absolutely no way, none at all, that he could have also gotten a wildly-unpopular immigration reform package through Congress as well, even if he genuinely wanted to.
Particularly during a recession.
 
This morning President Obama was at the border talking about immigration reform. This means of course a "path to citizenship" for illegal immigrants. Most people who have read my views on this subject know that I am in favor of this. Most Americans, both Republican and Democrat, are not. But Obama is a fraud on this issue. He could have pushed for this when he had a majority in control of House and Senate. In fact, he promised Latino groups he would do so in his 2008 campaign. Instead, under the Obama administration, more illegals have been deported than at any time in history- according to the Los Angeles Times, 19% more than during the Bush years. The only reason Obama is even bringing this up is to solidify his support among Hispanics for the upcoming election. He wants the Republicans to make nasty comments that some will perceive as racist (no doubt some of them will.) But when push comes to shove the Democrats have no interest in alienating their union supporters, who largely agree with conservatives on this particular issue. (A growing number of blacks, according to polls, are also either ambivalent or outright anti-illegal.) The Democrats are treating the Latinos exactly the way they treated the blacks prior to 1964: we're really not interested in helping your cause, but hey, where are you gonna turn?
Agree with your post. Glad we we are in the Obama "post-racial" period.
 
It is a very good thing that he has deported more illegals than any admin in 50 years. Any serious attempt at reforming our immigration standards has to be combined with enforcement of the laws against illegals. I don't see the outrage here.
I'm not outraged by this. It's what the majority wants. I only note that this plus Obama's lack of push for immigration reform makes him out to be a fraud on this issue.
I think your definition of fraud is quite a bit too broad if all it takes is enforcing the law and not passing a bill through a contentious Congress.
 
First of all, Obama has NOT deported more illegals than any other president. On the contrary, he's basically stopped the process for pending cases unless the illegal has been convicted of a crime. What he has done is game the numbers to make it APPEAR that he's deporting more. Secondly, Ruben Navarette is probably the only person in this country more pro illegal than Timmy. I suspect Timmy has a huge poster of him hanging above his bed and yells out the name "Ruben" when making love to his wife.

 
First of all, Obama has NOT deported more illegals than any other president. On the contrary, he's basically stopped the process for pending cases unless the illegal has been convicted of a crime. What he has done is game the numbers to make it APPEAR that he's deporting more. Secondly, Ruben Navarette is probably the only person in this country more pro illegal than Timmy. I suspect Timmy has a huge poster of him hanging above his bed and yells out the name "Ruben" when making love to his wife.
How?

 
The Democrats are treating the Latinos exactly the way they treated the blacks prior to 1964: we're really not interested in helping your cause, but hey, where are you gonna turn?
Shhh... it's working with gays, too. Don't ruin it for everyone.
Gay people got an end to DADT.
Yeah, and people accused Obama of being a fraud on that issue until he finally got it done after two full years.
 
First of all, Obama has NOT deported more illegals than any other president. On the contrary, he's basically stopped the process for pending cases unless the illegal has been convicted of a crime. What he has done is game the numbers to make it APPEAR that he's deporting more. Secondly, Ruben Navarette is probably the only person in this country more pro illegal than Timmy. I suspect Timmy has a huge poster of him hanging above his bed and yells out the name "Ruben" when making love to his wife.
How?
Wait. I want Timmy to tell me I'm wrong about that so I can show him how misinformed he is, yet again......
 
First of all, Obama has NOT deported more illegals than any other president. On the contrary, he's basically stopped the process for pending cases unless the illegal has been convicted of a crime. What he has done is game the numbers to make it APPEAR that he's deporting more. Secondly, Ruben Navarette is probably the only person in this country more pro illegal than Timmy. I suspect Timmy has a huge poster of him hanging above his bed and yells out the name "Ruben" when making love to his wife.
My secret's out!
 
First of all, Obama has NOT deported more illegals than any other president. On the contrary, he's basically stopped the process for pending cases unless the illegal has been convicted of a crime. What he has done is game the numbers to make it APPEAR that he's deporting more. Secondly, Ruben Navarette is probably the only person in this country more pro illegal than Timmy. I suspect Timmy has a huge poster of him hanging above his bed and yells out the name "Ruben" when making love to his wife.
How?
Wait. I want Timmy to tell me I'm wrong about that so I can show him how misinformed he is, yet again......
Personally, I'd be quite happy if what you were saying is correct. I'm reading the opposite. I have no idea what you mean by "gaming the system", so I too, would like to be informed how this is done.
 
First of all, Obama has NOT deported more illegals than any other president. On the contrary, he's basically stopped the process for pending cases unless the illegal has been convicted of a crime. What he has done is game the numbers to make it APPEAR that he's deporting more. Secondly, Ruben Navarette is probably the only person in this country more pro illegal than Timmy. I suspect Timmy has a huge poster of him hanging above his bed and yells out the name "Ruben" when making love to his wife.
How?
Wait. I want Timmy to tell me I'm wrong about that so I can show him how misinformed he is, yet again......
Personally, I'd be quite happy if what you were saying is correct. I'm reading the opposite. I have no idea what you mean by "gaming the system", so I too, would like to be informed how this is done.
I thought you weren't going to engage in discussions with me anymore? If I prove to you that Obama is gaming the system will you promise to NEVER start another illegal immigration thread? I won't care if you respond to one but you shouldn't start threads about things you're clearly totally clueless about.
 
First of all, Obama has NOT deported more illegals than any other president. On the contrary, he's basically stopped the process for pending cases unless the illegal has been convicted of a crime. What he has done is game the numbers to make it APPEAR that he's deporting more. Secondly, Ruben Navarette is probably the only person in this country more pro illegal than Timmy. I suspect Timmy has a huge poster of him hanging above his bed and yells out the name "Ruben" when making love to his wife.
How?
Wait. I want Timmy to tell me I'm wrong about that so I can show him how misinformed he is, yet again......
Personally, I'd be quite happy if what you were saying is correct. I'm reading the opposite. I have no idea what you mean by "gaming the system", so I too, would like to be informed how this is done.
I thought you weren't going to engage in discussions with me anymore? If I prove to you that Obama is gaming the system will you promise to NEVER start another illegal immigration thread? I won't care if you respond to one but you shouldn't start threads about things you're clearly totally clueless about.
No thanks. Appreciate the offer though.
 
I don't know why everyone always complains about how many threads timmy starts. What the hell else would we do around here?

I say - start more Tim! Start them all!

 
Unusual methods helped ICE break deportation record, e-mails and interviews show By Andrew BeckerCenter for Investigative ReportingMonday, December 6, 2010; 12:08 AMFor much of this year, the Obama administration touted its tougher-than-ever approach to immigration enforcement, culminating in a record number of deportations.But in reaching 392,862 deportations, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement included more than 19,000 immigrants who had exited the previous fiscal year, according to agency statistics. ICE also ran a Mexican repatriation program five weeks longer than ever before, allowing the agency to count at least 6,500 exits that, without the program, would normally have been tallied by the U.S. Border Patrol.When ICE officials realized in the final weeks of the fiscal year, which ended Sept. 30, that the agency still was in jeopardy of falling short of last year's mark, it scrambled to reach the goal. Officials quietly directed immigration officers to bypass backlogged immigration courts and time-consuming deportation hearings whenever possible, internal e-mails and interviews show.Instead, officials told immigration officers to encourage eligible foreign nationals to accept a quick pass to their countries without a negative mark on their immigration record, ICE employees said.The option, known as voluntary return, may have allowed hundreds of immigrants - who typically would have gone before an immigration judge to contest deportation for offenses such as drunken driving, domestic violence and misdemeanor assault - to leave the country. A voluntary return doesn't bar a foreigner from applying for legal residence or traveling to the United States in the future.Once the agency closed the books for fiscal 2010 and the record was broken, agents say they were told to stop widely offering the voluntary return option and revert to business as usual.Without these efforts and the more than 25,000 deportations that came with them, the agency would not have topped last year's record level of 389,834, current and former ICE employees and officials said.The Obama administration was intent on doing so even as it came under attack by some Republicans for not being tough enough on immigration enforcement and by some Democrats for failing to deliver on promises of comprehensive immigration reform."It's not unusual for any administration to get the numbers they need by reaching into their bag of tricks to boost figures," said Neil Clark, who retired as the Seattle field office director in late June, adding that in the 12 years he spent in management he saw the Bush and Clinton administrations do similar things.But at a news conference Oct. 6, ICE Director John T. Morton said that no unusual practices were used to break the previous year's mark."When the secretary tells you that the numbers are at an all-time high, that's straight, on the merits, no cooking of the books," Morton said, referring to his boss, Department of Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano. "It's what happened."ICE declined to make any officials available for interviews. In selected responses to e-mailed questions, spokesman Brian P. Hale wrote that the agency did nothing different from previous years but did not deny that ICE had focused on voluntary returns when it faced a shortfall weeks before the fiscal year ended. Rather, field offices were reminded of the voluntary return option, he said."ICE offered eligible aliens . . . the opportunity to accept voluntary return," Hale said. "The decision to accept VR [voluntary return] was the aliens'."Those efforts did not appear to result in a spike in voluntary returns. Statistics provided by ICE show that voluntary returns peaked at 8,960 in June, before dipping and then leveling off in the last two months of the fiscal year. A total of 64,876 immigrants were voluntarily returned to their home countries in 2010.Chris Crane, president of the American Federation of Government Employees National Council 118, the union that represents ICE immigration agents and officers, said offering voluntary return was not common practice for the agency. The union has been at odds with Morton over what it calls lax enforcement and gave him a no-confidence vote in June."It's breaking the rules to break the record," Crane said. "You don't change the way you do business to meet some quota. Morton said we don't do quotas. But that's what this is."New accountingOn Oct. 1 - the start of fiscal 2011 - Robin F. Baker, an acting ICE assistant director, cheered field directors on to the finish line in an e-mail obtained by the Center for Investigative Reporting."We are just 1061 shy of 390,000. However, we still get to count closed cases through Monday, October 4th so . . . keep having your folks concentrate on closing those cases," Baker wrote.Starting in 2009, ICE began to shut its books for the fiscal year ending Sept. 30 in the first few days of October. Any deportations that take place in one fiscal year but are confirmed after Oct. 5 are added to the next fiscal year's statistics.Based on the new accounting approach, the agency counted 19,422 removals from 2009 in the 2010 statistics. In 2010 itself, 373,440 other people were deported.Current and former ICE employees also point to an expanded U.S.-Mexico partnership as another way the agency increased overall deportation numbers.Known as the Mexican Interior Repatriation Program, the bilateral effort between the U.S. and Mexican governments focuses on reducing the deaths of migrants attempting to cross the border during the scorching Arizona summer. Mexicans caught by Border Patrol agents in the Sonoran Desert region and southern Arizona are turned over to ICE agents, who carry out the removals to Mexico.In a February memo, James M. Chaparro, ICE's head of enforcement and removal operations, called on field directors to "maximize" participation in the program, which he outlined as one of the ways to increase removals and "move us into position to meet or exceed the fiscal year goals."Since its launch in 2004, the program had never started earlier than July 7. This year, the first flight full of Mexicans departed June 1. By starting in June, ICE tallied 6,527 returns that in the past would have been handled - and counted - by the U.S. Border Patrol. Overall, a record 23,384 Mexicans between June and September accepted flights back to Mexico City, and then a bus ticket to their home town, at a cost of almost $15 million.ICE spokesman Hale said the agency started the program early because of available funds and a timely agreement between the United States and Mexico. He acknowledged that some of the immigrants removed through the program were caught or detained hundreds of miles from Arizona.This Story "Select individuals from west Texas were offered an opportunity to volunteer for safe return to their place of origin in the interior of Mexico," Hale said.He also confirmed that Mexican nationals detained near Seattle - possibly as many as 500 immigrants, according to one local officer - were also included on the flights.A year-end scrambleThe surge to break the deportation record in the final weeks of the fiscal year consumed the agency, said a high-ranking immigration official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the person wasn't authorized to discuss the matter publicly."They had everyone burning the candle at both ends to reach 390,000," the official said. "They were basically saying anything you can do to increase the overall removal number, that's what you should do - over everything else."In the Seattle area, immigration officers were instructed to give the voluntary return option to immigrants who did not face mandatory detention and didn't have attorneys.In the Atlanta area, ICE officers were told to persuade immigrants who had already asked to see an immigration judge to instead voluntarily leave the country.In Chicago, officers were told to stop releasing eligible immigrants and monitoring them with electronic ankle bracelets, which might spur more to accept voluntary removals, according to a Sept. 22 e-mail."Due to our increase in funding for detention for the remainder of the fiscal year, do not release anyone on an order of recognizance at this time," James McPeek, an assistant field office director in Chicago, wrote in the e-mail to employees. "Another option is to offer a VR [voluntary return] and keep in custody - this will increase our removal numbers for the fiscal year."An ICE employee in Louisiana, who spoke on the condition of anonymity for fear of reprisal, estimated that over a two-week period at least 100 to 150 Mexican nationals, some of whom had multiple drunken driving convictions, had their court cases reassigned as voluntary return, which was not common practice. ICE agents elsewhere reported similar numbers.Several ICE employees said, however, that once the fiscal year ended, their offices reverted to infrequently offering the return option. In the Pacific Northwest, some employees received an e-mail stating just that."Effective immediately: do not offer V/Rs [voluntary returns] to aliens who have been convicted of or are pending DUI," ICE supervisor Elizabeth Godfrey wrote Oct. 4.ICE's goal for 2011 is to remove 404,000 immigrants.Andrew Becker is a reporter for the Center for Investigative Reporting. He can be reached at abecker@cironline.org. CIR is a nonprofit news organization based in Berkeley, Calif., dedicated to producing investigative journalism. Its stories have appeared frequently in The Washington Post and other newspapers.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/05/AR2010120503230_3.html?hpid=topnews&sid=ST2010120503239
 
Name a president that was "really" serious about Immigration reform. This is not a new problem that has just developed under President Obama.

Until we start to go after the business that are hiring the illegal immigrants, nothing is going to prevent it from happening.

 
Name a president that was "really" serious about Immigration reform. This is not a new problem that has just developed under President Obama.

Until we start to go after the business that are hiring the illegal immigrants, nothing is going to prevent it from happening.
Reagan

 
Thanks for the info, Strike! I'm very glad that's the case. It would be a terrible thing for us to deport any illegal who was not convicted of a violent crime.

 
Hey Tim, do you read Mickey Kaus? The following is his post at The Daily Caller yesterday:

Obama on the border of … : Obvious points about Obama’s immigration speech in El Paso today–

1) Does he really think he’s going to sell us the same old amnesty/enforcement sandwich by saying it will “make America more competitive in the global economy” (or ”for America’s 21st century economy,” as his more boilerplate-prone press office tends to put it)? That’s hard to believe.

2) The alternative, CW explanation for his odd talk-to-the-echo-chamber push is politics: he’s trying to energize the “crucial” Hispanic vote two years before the election. But at what point does talking obsessively (big speech, constant White House meetings, etc.) about an issue that has been defeated politically, is going nowhere, and is tangential to the main crises of the day begin to lose Obama the far more numerous votes of independents, non-Hispanic Dems and Hispanics who care about something other than amnesty? Like a man declaiming at nobody on the streetcorner, he looks a bit disoriented.

3) Swaddling the issue in “21st century economy” talk could be a savvy acknowledgment of this political peril–designed not to sell the issue to the majority but to at least detoxify it for the majority (while Obama rouses the minority). But that may be overthinking things. Maybe the White House is just plodding ahead dumbly. “It does beg the question: ‘Where are we going with this?’” says Angela Kelly of the Center for American Progress in USA Today. When Obama loses CAP …

4) “The fence is now basicaly complete.” Huh? Or was there an implicit “as far as I’m concerned” tacked onto the end of this sentence?

5) Obama: ”We have gone above and beyond what was requested by the very Republicans who said they supported broader reform as long as we got serious about enforcement. All the stuff they asked for, we’ve done.” Hmm. When did they make E-verify mandatory for all employers? I must have missed that. (If you favor “enforcement first,” of course, you’d in any case want to wait for a robust economy, which predictably pulls in illegal immigrants looking for jobs, to see if any enforcement measures hold. But to do that Obama would have to produce a robust economy.)

6) The audience responses to Obama’s speech, recorded in the WSJ account, are both more interesting and honest than the speech itself. For example:

Then they wanted a fence. Well, the fence is –

AUDIENCE: Booo!

THE PRESIDENT: The fence is now basically complete.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: Tear it down!

That was soon followed by this exchange:

All the stuff they asked for, we’ve done. But even though we’ve answered these concerns, I’ve got to say I suspect there are still going to be some who are trying to move the goal posts on us one more time.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: They’re racist!

That is, of course, how opposition to amnesty is actually, routinely characterized on the ground here in the Southwest. A real “constructive and civil debate on these issues” would confront that widespread belief.

I don’t think Obama’s under any obligation to contradict or correct his audience. But it would have been easy to do. And if Obama really wanted to win Republican votes and pass his bill, he would have done it, no?

 
Let's look at the political calculations for Obama:

1. Conservatives who are very concerned about this issue (represented by Strike here among others) are not likely to vote for Obama anyhow, and no matter how "tough" he appears to be on immigration, they're not going to buy into it.

2. Blue collar Democrats who are also concerned about this issue are going to join conservatives with regard to polling, but they are unlikely, IMO, to change their vote over this issue. The recent assault on union rights by Republicans in Wisconsin, Ohio, and elsewhere have solidified these people's vote- they're going to vote for Obama in 2012.

3. Independents are generally ambivalent about this issue in terms of the rhetoric, but they oppose amnesty or anything like it. Because Democrats are fearful of these types, I doubt there will be any "path to citizenship" in the near future.

4. Hispanics are very eager for immigration reform, and are getting frustrated with the Democrats. But then, the Democrats provide their only hope. So they'll continue to support Dems. And if the GOP continues to make harsh arguments which this group perceives as racist against them, they will forget the Democrats' inaction and become even more energized.

5. Big business will never allow businesses to be penalized for hiring illegals. So this will never happen. Big business is generally for some sort of amnesty, but does not wish to disclose this for fear of a populist backlash.

With these factors in mind Obama's best political play is to do exactly what he's doing: blame the Republicans, rather than the Dems, for inaction on this issue, and then goad the Republicans into responding with over the top statements that border on racism. It's a fine ploy and it will probably work. In the end, nothing will be done about immigration reform. But there will be a larger number of Hispanics voting Democrat, and that's all he cares about.

 
Name a president that was "really" serious about Immigration reform. This is not a new problem that has just developed under President Obama. Until we start to go after the business that are hiring the illegal immigrants, nothing is going to prevent it from happening.
Eisenhower?
 
Name a president that was "really" serious about Immigration reform. This is not a new problem that has just developed under President Obama.

Until we start to go after the business that are hiring the illegal immigrants, nothing is going to prevent it from happening.
Reagan
Fair enough.. although it did not work and some thing it has hurt the US even more And Reagans idea was to grant amnesty to illegal immigrants who entered the United States before January 1, 1982 and had resided there continuously. Which there would be no way this would get through today.

 
Name a president that was "really" serious about Immigration reform. This is not a new problem that has just developed under President Obama. Until we start to go after the business that are hiring the illegal immigrants, nothing is going to prevent it from happening.
Eisenhower?
1954.. I think you just proved my point.
Yes, it's been a long time although Reagan did have good intentions. And the country is far worse off as a result of the inaction.
 
Name a president that was "really" serious about Immigration reform. This is not a new problem that has just developed under President Obama.

Until we start to go after the business that are hiring the illegal immigrants, nothing is going to prevent it from happening.
Reagan
Fair enough.. although it did not work and some thing it has hurt the US even more And Reagans idea was to grant amnesty to illegal immigrants who entered the United States before January 1, 1982 and had resided there continuously. Which there would be no way this would get through today.
It didn't work because they only did half of what was promised. They gave amnesty but didn't up enforcement as was promised. That is why no one with half a brain will go along with giving amnesty again until the border is secure.
 
Name a president that was "really" serious about Immigration reform. This is not a new problem that has just developed under President Obama.

Until we start to go after the business that are hiring the illegal immigrants, nothing is going to prevent it from happening.
Reagan
Fair enough.. although it did not work and some thing it has hurt the US even more And Reagans idea was to grant amnesty to illegal immigrants who entered the United States before January 1, 1982 and had resided there continuously. Which there would be no way this would get through today.
It didn't work because they only did half of what was promised. They gave amnesty but didn't up enforcement as was promised. That is why no one with half a brain will go along with giving amnesty again until the border is secure.
Unless, of course, you want open borders.

Are you saying tim doesn't have half a brain?

 
Name a president that was "really" serious about Immigration reform. This is not a new problem that has just developed under President Obama.

Until we start to go after the business that are hiring the illegal immigrants, nothing is going to prevent it from happening.
Reagan
Fair enough.. although it did not work and some thing it has hurt the US even more And Reagans idea was to grant amnesty to illegal immigrants who entered the United States before January 1, 1982 and had resided there continuously. Which there would be no way this would get through today.
It didn't work because they only did half of what was promised. They gave amnesty but didn't up enforcement as was promised. That is why no one with half a brain will go along with giving amnesty again until the border is secure.
Unless, of course, you want open borders.

Are you saying tim doesn't have half a brain?
I'm gonna withhold my opinion of Tim. I think it's pretty evident from my posts.
 
I have to wonder if the motivation behind the OP post was racial....

 
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But Obama is a fraud on this issue. He could have pushed for this when he had a majority in control of House and Senate.
I'm not necessarily saying that Obama isn't a fraud on this, but he was busy with HCR when the Democrats controlled both chambers of congress. It took every single dime of political capital he had at his disposal to get that through. There is absolutely no way, none at all, that he could have also gotten a wildly-unpopular immigration reform package through Congress as well, even if he genuinely wanted to.
Exactly. I think Obama is in favor of immigration reform, but it was not his top priority.
 
Until we start to go after the business that are hiring the illegal immigrants, nothing is going to prevent it from happening.
Illegals get a job so they can afford to stay here. If they can afford to stay here through other means then simply going after employers will not solve the problem.
70% of Texas' Illegal Immigrant Families Receive Welfare

Thirteen years after Congress overhauled the American welfare system, 57 percent of immigrants with children — those in the country legally or not — use at least one government, welfare program according to a report released Tuesday by the Center for Immigration Studies.

In comparison, 39 percent of native-born Americans with children are signed up for welfare, the report found.

In Texas, 54 percent of legal immigrants and 70 percent of illegal immigrants receive welfare assistance, with illegal immigrants generally receiving benefits on behalf of their US-born children, according to the study, written by a think tank that favors reducing immigration into the US.

Overall, Texas tied with California and New York for the second highest immigrant welfare rates behind Arizona.

We should note that the study takes an expansive view of what constitutes a government welfare program, so programs such as reduced-price school lunches for low-income students are classified as welfare, according to CIS' methodology.

Texas showed 61 percent of households headed by an immigrant utilizing at least one program compared to the 42 percent of Texas natives on welfare.

http://newmediajournal.us/indx.php/item/1217
While it's true an employer of illegals receives the greatest benefit through a less expensive workforce, that benefit may in turn be passed on to the American consumer through a reduced price in it's product or service. I'm not sure what the benefit is to the average American because of the above.
 
4. Hispanics are very eager for immigration reform, and are getting frustrated with the Democrats. But then, the Democrats provide their only hope. So they'll continue to support Dems. And if the GOP continues to make harsh arguments which this group perceives as racist against them, they will forget the Democrats' inaction and become even more energized.
Democrats have certainly won the PR war on this.Rubio has a chance to change all of this in a big way. Hopefully he's ready for the VP nod that is his for the asking.
 
'timschochet said:
4. Hispanics are very eager for immigration reform, and are getting frustrated with the Democrats. But then, the Democrats provide their only hope. So they'll continue to support Dems. And if the GOP continues to make harsh arguments which this group perceives as racist against them, they will forget the Democrats' inaction and become even more energized.
Do you mean racist like assuming that America's second largest racial group all thinks alike? Jon_mx gets bludgeoned over not carefully differentiating between the large and diverse Muslim group, but we should just accept that our large and diverse Hispanic brothers and sisters think alike? I regularly hear Hispanics and read Hispanics who are opposed to illegal immigration and the Democrats' positions on immigration reform. Here's one...Al Cardenas was appointed to the Executive Committee of the Republican Party, the highest policy-making board at the Republican National Committee. He was the first Hispanic to lead a major state party. Cardenas is currently the chairman of the American Conservative Union.

And any politician that panders specifically to one racial group based on the interests of what's best for his party rather than what's best for all Americans is not worthy of the office he holds.

 
'timschochet said:
4. Hispanics are very eager for immigration reform, and are getting frustrated with the Democrats. But then, the Democrats provide their only hope. So they'll continue to support Dems. And if the GOP continues to make harsh arguments which this group perceives as racist against them, they will forget the Democrats' inaction and become even more energized.
Do you mean racist like assuming that America's second largest racial group all thinks alike? Jon_mx gets bludgeoned over not carefully differentiating between the large and diverse Muslim group, but we should just accept that our large and diverse Hispanic brothers and sisters think alike? I regularly hear Hispanics and read Hispanics who are opposed to illegal immigration and the Democrats' positions on immigration reform. Here's one...Al Cardenas was appointed to the Executive Committee of the Republican Party, the highest policy-making board at the Republican National Committee. He was the first Hispanic to lead a major state party. Cardenas is currently the chairman of the American Conservative Union.

And any politician that panders specifically to one racial group based on the interests of what's best for his party rather than what's best for all Americans is not worthy of the office he holds.
I certainly don't assume all Hispanics think alike, but I think that it is safe to assume, based on polling, that the vast majority view attacks on illegal immigration as attacks against them. That's a reality, whether you or I like it or not. I also believe that the various examples of certain Hispanics reaching high public office within the Republican party, such as Cardenas or Rubio, is going to have exactly the same impact as African Americans reaching high public office within the Republican party- little or none. I don't think these groups really give a damn about representation any more. For the majority of Hispanics, you need to resolve immigration.

 

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