Of the players that have been on the recent Pats teams (1 Viewer)

[Coeur de Lion]

...I'm not so sure about Seymour; I would say that if Seymour gets inducted, we could be looking at a situation much like the 70s Steelers; whereby a lot of guys that would've otherwise been borderline get the nod because of their place on a dynastic team.

The only HOF players from the 70's Steelers that were borderline IMO are Stallworth and especially Swann. There is no way at all that Joe Green, Bradshaw, Blount, Harris, Ham , Lambert, and Webster were 'borderline'.

It is pretty hard to argue that Noll and both Rooneys aren't worthy, also.

 

[Chase Stuart]

DEs aren't judged by Super Bowls or team success. Howie Long, Bruce Smith, Lee Roy Selmon, Jack Youngblood didn't win Super Bowls, and those are the most recent DEs to make the HOF outside of White. Team success only matters for QBs, and maybe a little for RBs or OL; not defensive players.

Howie Long won a super bowl

Good catch, thanks.

 

[Tau837]

Just Win Baby has an awesome comparison of the safety logjam that I'm going to blatantly rip off, now. This was posted during the summer, so this season's results aren't included... but if anything, this season HURTS Harrison's chances thanks to the mediocre play and the steroids rap.

thanks for reposting that. I think Harrison is clearly more deserving than all of those guys that aren't in yet. Atwater, Butler, Dawkins, and Lynch are all borderline candidates. Harrison is a no-brainer for me.

Remember, that post is a bit old. So the stats of the active players are not up to date. I suspect Dawkins will be a strong candidate before all is said and done. I think it is interesting that you would say Butler is a borderline candidate but Harrison is a no-brainer. I think Butler is at least as deserving as Harrison, if not more so.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Just Win Baby has an awesome comparison of the safety logjam that I'm going to blatantly rip off, now. This was posted during the summer, so this season's results aren't included... but if anything, this season HURTS Harrison's chances thanks to the mediocre play and the steroids rap.

thanks for reposting that. I think Harrison is clearly more deserving than all of those guys that aren't in yet. Atwater, Butler, Dawkins, and Lynch are all borderline candidates. Harrison is a no-brainer for me.

Remember, that post is a bit old. So the stats of the active players are not up to date. I suspect Dawkins will be a strong candidate before all is said and done. I think it is interesting that you would say Butler is a borderline candidate but Harrison is a no-brainer. I think Butler is at least as deserving as Harrison, if not more so.

I'm having trouble finding any IDP postseason stats for these guys, but here is a per game comparison of their career regular season production.Butler: 181 games played, 3.7 solos, 1.2 assists, .11 sacks, .21 INTs, 1 TD, .7 PD, .07 FF, .06 FRHarrison: 180 games played, 4.9 solos, 1.5 assists, .17 sacks, .18 INTs, 2 TDs, .6 PD, .08 FF, .05 FRHarrison makes A LOT more tackles than Butler did, so I'd give him a big edge in run support.Harrison was considerably more effective blitzing the QB (which was one of Butler's strengths).Butler was better in pass coverage, but only has a slight edge in INTs + PDs.Butler was a great player who offenses had to scheme around and certainly deserves strong consideration. But, to me, Harrison was the premiere SS in football over nearly an entire decade (1996 to 2004).I think his play in the 2003 and 2004 postseasons also helped put him over the top in this comparison (quote below taken from wikipedia).

2003On January 10, 2004 in the divisional playoff game against the Tennessee Titans, he intercepted Steve McNair, which set up Antowain Smith's touchdown as New England would hold on for a 17-14 win. In the AFC Championship game the next week against the Indianapolis Colts, Harrison intercepted Peyton Manning in the end zone and forced a Marvin Harrison fumble that teammate Tyrone Poole recovered.2004In the Patriots' divisional playoff game against the Indianapolis Colts, Harrison intercepted Peyton Manning late in the game to remove the last chance Indianapolis had of scoring a touchdown. The next week in the AFC Championship, Harrison jumped a Ben Roethlisberger pass and took it 87 yards for a touchdown, helping the Patriots defeat the Pittsburgh Steelers, 41-27. Harrison made a statement in Super Bowl XXXIX, as he would record seven tackles, a sack, and two interceptions of quarterback Donovan McNabb, despite missing almost an entire quarter due to an injury sustained during the game. The second interception with ten seconds remaining in the game preserved a 24-21 Patriot win, ensuring a third championship in four years.

I count 6 interceptions being mentioned over 6 playoff games, most of which were very close. He had a HUGE impact on the Patriots dynasty.

 

[Pai Mei]

IMO for a team that has multiple titles you would think there would be some more top tier candidates.Which of these players (or others that are not listed) will get a look as a potential HOF candidate?

Football is a coaches game, not a player's game. That's why I say if I was starting a league to compete with the NFL (USFL, XFL, or something else), I'd raid all the NFL's coaches and pair them with second-tier players. The best coaches will elevate the talent level. I would destroy the NFL in the process.

 

[Tau837]

Just Win Baby has an awesome comparison of the safety logjam that I'm going to blatantly rip off, now. This was posted during the summer, so this season's results aren't included... but if anything, this season HURTS Harrison's chances thanks to the mediocre play and the steroids rap.

thanks for reposting that. I think Harrison is clearly more deserving than all of those guys that aren't in yet. Atwater, Butler, Dawkins, and Lynch are all borderline candidates. Harrison is a no-brainer for me.

Remember, that post is a bit old. So the stats of the active players are not up to date. I suspect Dawkins will be a strong candidate before all is said and done. I think it is interesting that you would say Butler is a borderline candidate but Harrison is a no-brainer. I think Butler is at least as deserving as Harrison, if not more so.

I'm having trouble finding any IDP postseason stats for these guys, but here is a per game comparison of their career regular season production.Butler: 181 games played, 3.7 solos, 1.2 assists, .11 sacks, .21 INTs, 1 TD, .7 PD, .07 FF, .06 FRHarrison: 180 games played, 4.9 solos, 1.5 assists, .17 sacks, .18 INTs, 2 TDs, .6 PD, .08 FF, .05 FRHarrison makes A LOT more tackles than Butler did, so I'd give him a big edge in run support.Harrison was considerably more effective blitzing the QB (which was one of Butler's strengths).Butler was better in pass coverage, but only has a slight edge in INTs + PDs.Butler was a great player who offenses had to scheme around and certainly deserves strong consideration. But, to me, Harrison was the premiere SS in football over nearly an entire decade (1996 to 2004).I think his play in the 2003 and 2004 postseasons also helped put him over the top in this comparison (quote below taken from wikipedia).

2003On January 10, 2004 in the divisional playoff game against the Tennessee Titans, he intercepted Steve McNair, which set up Antowain Smith's touchdown as New England would hold on for a 17-14 win. In the AFC Championship game the next week against the Indianapolis Colts, Harrison intercepted Peyton Manning in the end zone and forced a Marvin Harrison fumble that teammate Tyrone Poole recovered.2004In the Patriots' divisional playoff game against the Indianapolis Colts, Harrison intercepted Peyton Manning late in the game to remove the last chance Indianapolis had of scoring a touchdown. The next week in the AFC Championship, Harrison jumped a Ben Roethlisberger pass and took it 87 yards for a touchdown, helping the Patriots defeat the Pittsburgh Steelers, 41-27. Harrison made a statement in Super Bowl XXXIX, as he would record seven tackles, a sack, and two interceptions of quarterback Donovan McNabb, despite missing almost an entire quarter due to an injury sustained during the game. The second interception with ten seconds remaining in the game preserved a 24-21 Patriot win, ensuring a third championship in four years.

I count 6 interceptions being mentioned over 6 playoff games, most of which were very close. He had a HUGE impact on the Patriots dynasty.

On the subject of finding these stats, I remember when I did this I visited 3 or 4 sources and found that the data varied widely from source to source. It was hard to tell which source to trust.One thing you didn't mention that carries a lot of weight to me: 4 All Pro selections for Butler in 12 seasons vs. 2 All Pro selections for Harrison in 14 years and counting.

 

[hitmenssharpshooters]

If Ty Law doesn't get in, the voters have completely lost their minds.Law, Harrison and Seau are locks.

Seau is a sell out.."retiring" and than signing with the Pats...please.

Seau was traded by SD to the Dolphins, then cut by the Dolphins, and signed a one-day contract with SD so he could retire a Charger. He was a 37 year old linebacker coming off two major injuries in two years. I don't think a lot of other teams were beating a path to his door.

Yeah..that retirement really lasted long Sell Out

 

[SSOG]

Just Win Baby has an awesome comparison of the safety logjam that I'm going to blatantly rip off, now. This was posted during the summer, so this season's results aren't included... but if anything, this season HURTS Harrison's chances thanks to the mediocre play and the steroids rap.

thanks for reposting that. I think Harrison is clearly more deserving than all of those guys that aren't in yet. Atwater, Butler, Dawkins, and Lynch are all borderline candidates. Harrison is a no-brainer for me.

The fact that he only has 2 pro bowls and 2 all pros in 14 years doesn't bother you in the slightest?

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Just Win Baby has an awesome comparison of the safety logjam that I'm going to blatantly rip off, now. This was posted during the summer, so this season's results aren't included... but if anything, this season HURTS Harrison's chances thanks to the mediocre play and the steroids rap.

thanks for reposting that. I think Harrison is clearly more deserving than all of those guys that aren't in yet. Atwater, Butler, Dawkins, and Lynch are all borderline candidates. Harrison is a no-brainer for me.

The fact that he only has 2 pro bowls and 2 all pros in 14 years doesn't bother you in the slightest?

I suppose that could be one of the knocks on his candidacy, along with the suspensions, but I think his performances in the postseason make up for a lack of Pro Bowl invites.it's also pretty ridiculous that he didn't make the Pro Bowl (1998 and 2001) during his All Pro years (2003 and 2004). how did that happen?

 

[Ketamine Dreams]

Rodney Harrison- Noway He Doesn't get in. He's a lock.

Definitely a lock for the Thug Hall of Fame.

 

[SSOG]

Just Win Baby has an awesome comparison of the safety logjam that I'm going to blatantly rip off, now. This was posted during the summer, so this season's results aren't included... but if anything, this season HURTS Harrison's chances thanks to the mediocre play and the steroids rap.

thanks for reposting that. I think Harrison is clearly more deserving than all of those guys that aren't in yet. Atwater, Butler, Dawkins, and Lynch are all borderline candidates. Harrison is a no-brainer for me.

The fact that he only has 2 pro bowls and 2 all pros in 14 years doesn't bother you in the slightest?

I suppose that could be one of the knocks on his candidacy, along with the suspensions, but I think his performances in the postseason make up for a lack of Pro Bowl invites.it's also pretty ridiculous that he didn't make the Pro Bowl (1998 and 2001) during his All Pro years (2003 and 2004). how did that happen?

It happens pretty frequently, actually.The postseason argument is nice and all, but I wonder how much weight it really carries. Obviously he's a radically different candidate, but Terrell Davis is pretty unequivocally the greatest postseason rusher of all time, but that doesn't seem to be doing him all that much good. And he plays a position that the selection committee LIKES to elect. If you have warts on your regular season resume (be it an injury-shortened career or only 2 pro bowl/all pro appearances), then postseason success won't do as much good as one would think. Unless you're Lynn Swan or John Riggins, that is.

 

[Pat Patriot]

Just Win Baby has an awesome comparison of the safety logjam that I'm going to blatantly rip off, now. This was posted during the summer, so this season's results aren't included... but if anything, this season HURTS Harrison's chances thanks to the mediocre play and the steroids rap.

thanks for reposting that. I think Harrison is clearly more deserving than all of those guys that aren't in yet. Atwater, Butler, Dawkins, and Lynch are all borderline candidates. Harrison is a no-brainer for me.

The fact that he only has 2 pro bowls and 2 all pros in 14 years doesn't bother you in the slightest?

I suppose that could be one of the knocks on his candidacy, along with the suspensions, but I think his performances in the postseason make up for a lack of Pro Bowl invites.it's also pretty ridiculous that he didn't make the Pro Bowl (1998 and 2001) during his All Pro years (2003 and 2004). how did that happen?

Obviously Harrison is not well liked by fans or his fellow players. That in itself will keep you out of the Pro Bowl. Do the writers who vote on All Pro teams feel the same? Could be. Not saying for sure but he certainly is an unpopular player.As Rudnicki had said, Harrison has had a HUGE impact on the Patriots dynasty. Every postseason that NE has won a SB, Harrison is the one making the big plays on defense. Just watching the SB videos, he is always in the middle of the action. He is setting records for consecutive playoff games with a pick as he came up with another game ending interception last week.I think the HGH taints him but someone earlier said that Harrison had a mediocre year. I dont think that is true. Since week 7 or so, Harrison has been a HUGE factor in the Patriots D.

 

[Tanner9919]

With the Patriots potentially on the verge of their 4th title in 7 season, which players in their reign are worthy of the HOF? (My opion included):Bill Belichick (IN)Tom Brady (IN)Drew Bledsoe (While I don't think so, I think he will get some consideration based on his ranking (for now) in the Top 5-Top 15 in many passing categories)Vinny Testaverde (Another guy with good career totals but I can't see him getting any real consideration)Corey Dillon (Will get some consideration but probably not get serious consideration. His chances are hurt by all those years as a Bengal)Randy Moss (IN)Troy Brown (Not a chance, but people have debated me based on his team first philosophy and playing all facets of the game)Adam Vinatieri (If they start adding placekickers, Vinatieri will be high on the list)Matt Light (Way too soon to consider him)Tedy Bruschi (A great story but I'm not sure he's a HOFer)Lawyer Milloy (Multiple Pro Bowls but no)Ty Law (Maybe)Richard Seymour (Probably the best chance of any of their defensive players that have been there the entire time)Willie McGinest (No)Michael Vrabel (Nice career . . but the HOF?)Rodney Harrison (His reputation won't help him, but I think he'll get some serious consideration)Junior Seau (IN)Asante Samuel (Way too soon to consider him)

Dillon - NOTy Law - YESBledsoe - NO Friggin' way he gets in..Vinny T??? Seymour? has to stay healthy and play for many more years to have a shot..Rodney Harrison - maybe, but the roids/hgh suspension, might hurt his chances , what with the stories from MLB fresh on everyone's mind.Seau - yes.Samuel? he's just a good corner, not a great one. He's not the next Deion Sanders..Vrabel ?! no way.if you put Bledsoe in the HOF, then you MUST put Phil Simms in there, too..Bledsoe was a stat compiler turned happy-feet int machine...Simms had the highest rating of any QB ever in a SB..he's won 2 of them, the second after leading his team to a 10-0 record in the 1990 season ( 10-2 by the time he was hurt in week 14 that year) Otherwise, he would likely have played in two SB's as a starting QB and would have won both..