****Offical 2009 World Series Thread**** (1 Viewer)

[Michael Brown]

Listen Mike. I like you. I really do. But you're really struggling with this whole concept. I originally mentioned Swisher as a mercenary. As soon as it was pointed out that he was traded for, I dropped him from the conversation. Mercenaries are guys that go play for the highest bidder and dont have large porn collections. Period.

You can't honestly believe that the Yankee trade for Swisher was in any way similar to the Philly trade for Lee. Lee was in heavy demand by several teams, and was the big-ticket deadline deal player that was moved along with Holliday. Swisher was a guy many thought of as a former roider who had lost his big swing and was a bum. There were even some people suggesting it was good for the White Sox to get Betemit! Swish was traded because the Sox seemed to think he was done. Lee was traded because he was going to become very expensive. Big difference.It's why I'm not bringing up guys like Victorino, Werth, Lidge...these aren't guys who held out for the highest bidder. They're guys who the Phils acquired shrewedly. But don't think for a minute that when their times come, they won't hold out for the highest bidder too. And Lee, who could still be an Indian, has already started the process of doing the same simply by not offering a cheap extension to the Tribe in order to remain there. And I don't fault him, or any player, for it.And if the Mariners offer Hideki $20 million for two years and a minority ownership in Vivid videos, he's as good as gone.

 

[Lehigh98]

Can we just stop the whole "mercenary" thing?... its ridiculous, TIA.

 

[Liquid Tension]

I don't think Pedro will get shelled. He'll put up his usual 6 or 7 innings, 3 or 4 runs. There's an outside chance that he pitches a gem as well. But if anything, Pedro has been consistent this year and always gives this team a chance to win.I don't know about Pettitte though. I wonder how he will pitch on short rest. He didn't look sharp game 3.

I have a feeling that Pettite and Pedro will end up being irrelevant and that the bullpens will decide this.

I would agree. But, I think people overlook the hitting aspect of the game. People will say, so and so just didn't have it, sometimes they are right, but when the Yankees were grooving pitches to Utley, he had to crush them. Switch to some of the grooved pitches that Texiera, Cano and even ARod had and the Yankees offense did not get the job done like Utley has. Jeter had a 2-0 count in the 9th Monday night; he took a hittable pitch for a strike and then with the count in his favor had a bad swing on a very hittable pitch. Is that good pitching or bad hitting? People incorrectly say they pitched well without knocking the offense and vice versa. These are excellent offensive teams and they need to take advantage of the hittable pitches and lay off the bad ones. In general, the Phillies I believe have done a little better job than the Yankees in swinging at good pitches and laying off the bad ones. What that also means is that I believe the Yankees have pitched a little better in the 5 games so far. This could be expected when the Yanks have thrown nothing but their 3 best and Philly had Blanton go. The question is whether the 3 days rest impacts Andy or not or even CC going twice on 3 days rest. I don't think Andy matches up well against this team anyway and I don't think the 3 days rest matters too much as he didn't have much velocity or command on full rest last game.If it goes 7 though CC may have a little loss in velocity, especially as the game goes on. if you remember while Milwaukee abused him last year, it did eventually show up. As a Yankee fan I hope he has one bullet in his gun. the key indicator for him is usually his control of the change up on any count on the outside corner to righties. If he is throwing 94 with that change up he can get through the game

 

[Michael Brown]

Can we just stop the whole "mercenary" thing?... its ridiculous, TIA.

Actually it was pretty much dead and buried when you brought it back up again in Post 855 a couple pages back.

 

[whoknew]

So if the Phils win tonight, would they start Lee in game 7? Tell him, "We need 3-4 innings out of you and someone else will take it from there."

 

[Bogart]

My total chaos prediction for the rest of the series: Pettitte blows up early tonight, forcing Girardi to go to the bullpen early and often. There are 87 trips to the mound for the first 7 innings. With Philly up by one run in the 8th, Girardi brings in Rivera to try and keep it close, which he does, but throws a ton of pitches in the process. The Yankees can't tie it up and Philly forces a game 7.Game 7 is a hard fought, all hands on deck, street fight. Every pitcher in the building throws, every hitter makes it into the lineup. The game find the Yankees up by 1 in the bottom of the 9th (on a Cano 3-run jack), and Girardi has no choice but to bring in a tired Rivera to bring the 27th championship to NY. Rivera, pitching only on guts. gets the first 2 outs, but then gives up back-to-back HRs to Matt Stairs and Eric Bruntlett to end the game. Rivera collapses on the mound in exhaustion. Jeter and A-Rod attack Teixeria with fists of fury, and sniper rifles in Big George's suite take full aim at Girardi....

You had me until the Bruntlett part.

Ahhh, the seldom seen road team walk-off...

I completely forgot the bottom of the inning. Jeter and A-Rod, their hands bloody stubs can't get a ball out of the infield, leaving it up to a broken Teixeria to save the day. His eyes swollen shut, ribs broken, hits a towering fly ball that is shot down by a sniper, trying to hit Girardi again. The ball falls gently into the glove of mercenary (insert Phills OF of your choice here).

 

[Michael Brown]

I don't think Pedro will get shelled. He'll put up his usual 6 or 7 innings, 3 or 4 runs. There's an outside chance that he pitches a gem as well. But if anything, Pedro has been consistent this year and always gives this team a chance to win.I don't know about Pettitte though. I wonder how he will pitch on short rest. He didn't look sharp game 3.

I have a feeling that Pettite and Pedro will end up being irrelevant and that the bullpens will decide this.

I would agree. But, I think people overlook the hitting aspect of the game. People will say, so and so just didn't have it, sometimes they are right, but when the Yankees were grooving pitches to Utley, he had to crush them. Switch to some of the grooved pitches that Texiera, Cano and even ARod had and the Yankees offense did not get the job done like Utley has. Jeter had a 2-0 count in the 9th Monday night; he took a hittable pitch for a strike and then with the count in his favor had a bad swing on a very hittable pitch. Is that good pitching or bad hitting? People incorrectly say they pitched well without knocking the offense and vice versa. These are excellent offensive teams and they need to take advantage of the hittable pitches and lay off the bad ones. In general, the Phillies I believe have done a little better job than the Yankees in swinging at good pitches and laying off the bad ones. What that also means is that I believe the Yankees have pitched a little better in the 5 games so far. This could be expected when the Yanks have thrown nothing but their 3 best and Philly had Blanton go. The question is whether the 3 days rest impacts Andy or not or even CC going twice on 3 days rest. I don't think Andy matches up well against this team anyway and I don't think the 3 days rest matters too much as he didn't have much velocity or command on full rest last game.If it goes 7 though CC may have a little loss in velocity, especially as the game goes on. if you remember while Milwaukee abused him last year, it did eventually show up. As a Yankee fan I hope he has one bullet in his gun. the key indicator for him is usually his control of the change up on any count on the outside corner to righties. If he is throwing 94 with that change up he can get through the game

Pedro was excellent this year, but he also hasn't had to face the same team twice in a short span all season yet. I can easily see the Yankees getting to him early tonight. Regardless of how they've done to this point, Tex and Cano are NOT bad hitters.Pettitte may not be quite the same guy on three days rest, so while I expect him to pitch well (6.2 IP, 2-3 ER) I also wouldn't be shocked to see a 5.1 IP, 4-5 ER type of performance.I think the Yankees being at home and having a well-rested Mariano, are in a much better position to close this thing out tonight than tomorrow. Let's just hope they take advantage.

 

[JaxBill]

My total chaos prediction for the rest of the series: Pettitte blows up early tonight, forcing Girardi to go to the bullpen early and often. There are 87 trips to the mound for the first 7 innings. With Philly up by one run in the 8th, Girardi brings in Rivera to try and keep it close, which he does, but throws a ton of pitches in the process. The Yankees can't tie it up and Philly forces a game 7.Game 7 is a hard fought, all hands on deck, street fight. Every pitcher in the building throws, every hitter makes it into the lineup. The game find the Yankees up by 1 in the bottom of the 9th (on a Cano 3-run jack), and Girardi has no choice but to bring in a tired Rivera to bring the 27th championship to NY. Rivera, pitching only on guts. gets the first 2 outs, but then gives up back-to-back HRs to Matt Stairs and Eric Bruntlett to end the game. Rivera collapses on the mound in exhaustion. Jeter and A-Rod attack Teixeria with fists of fury, and sniper rifles in Big George's suite take full aim at Girardi....

You had me until the Bruntlett part.

Ahhh, the seldom seen road team walk-off...

Plus it involved Bruntlett doing anything remotely worthwhile.

 

[Michael Brown]

My total chaos prediction for the rest of the series: Pettitte blows up early tonight, forcing Girardi to go to the bullpen early and often. There are 87 trips to the mound for the first 7 innings. With Philly up by one run in the 8th, Girardi brings in Rivera to try and keep it close, which he does, but throws a ton of pitches in the process. The Yankees can't tie it up and Philly forces a game 7.Game 7 is a hard fought, all hands on deck, street fight. Every pitcher in the building throws, every hitter makes it into the lineup. The game find the Yankees up by 1 in the bottom of the 9th (on a Cano 3-run jack), and Girardi has no choice but to bring in a tired Rivera to bring the 27th championship to NY. Rivera, pitching only on guts. gets the first 2 outs, but then gives up back-to-back HRs to Matt Stairs and Eric Bruntlett to end the game. Rivera collapses on the mound in exhaustion. Jeter and A-Rod attack Teixeria with fists of fury, and sniper rifles in Big George's suite take full aim at Girardi....

You had me until the Bruntlett part.

Ahhh, the seldom seen road team walk-off...

I completely forgot the bottom of the inning. Jeter and A-Rod, their hands bloody stubs can't get a ball out of the infield, leaving it up to a broken Teixeria to save the day. His eyes swollen shut, ribs broken, hits a towering fly ball that is shot down by a sniper, trying to hit Girardi again. The ball falls gently into the glove of mercenary (insert Phills OF of your choice here).

Good stuff Bogie.

 

[Darth Cheney]

I don't think Pedro will get shelled. He'll put up his usual 6 or 7 innings, 3 or 4 runs. There's an outside chance that he pitches a gem as well. But if anything, Pedro has been consistent this year and always gives this team a chance to win.I don't know about Pettitte though. I wonder how he will pitch on short rest. He didn't look sharp game 3.

I have a feeling that Pettite and Pedro will end up being irrelevant and that the bullpens will decide this.

I would agree. But, I think people overlook the hitting aspect of the game. People will say, so and so just didn't have it, sometimes they are right, but when the Yankees were grooving pitches to Utley, he had to crush them. Switch to some of the grooved pitches that Texiera, Cano and even ARod had and the Yankees offense did not get the job done like Utley has. Jeter had a 2-0 count in the 9th Monday night; he took a hittable pitch for a strike and then with the count in his favor had a bad swing on a very hittable pitch. Is that good pitching or bad hitting? People incorrectly say they pitched well without knocking the offense and vice versa. These are excellent offensive teams and they need to take advantage of the hittable pitches and lay off the bad ones. In general, the Phillies I believe have done a little better job than the Yankees in swinging at good pitches and laying off the bad ones. What that also means is that I believe the Yankees have pitched a little better in the 5 games so far. This could be expected when the Yanks have thrown nothing but their 3 best and Philly had Blanton go. The question is whether the 3 days rest impacts Andy or not or even CC going twice on 3 days rest. I don't think Andy matches up well against this team anyway and I don't think the 3 days rest matters too much as he didn't have much velocity or command on full rest last game.If it goes 7 though CC may have a little loss in velocity, especially as the game goes on. if you remember while Milwaukee abused him last year, it did eventually show up. As a Yankee fan I hope he has one bullet in his gun. the key indicator for him is usually his control of the change up on any count on the outside corner to righties. If he is throwing 94 with that change up he can get through the game

Pedro was excellent this year, but he also hasn't had to face the same team twice in a short span all season yet. I can easily see the Yankees getting to him early tonight. Regardless of how they've done to this point, Tex and Cano are NOT bad hitters.Pettitte may not be quite the same guy on three days rest, so while I expect him to pitch well (6.2 IP, 2-3 ER) I also wouldn't be shocked to see a 5.1 IP, 4-5 ER type of performance.I think the Yankees being at home and having a well-rested Mariano, are in a much better position to close this thing out tonight than tomorrow. Let's just hope they take advantage.

they were talking about it on 660 yesterday. Do you go with Mo in a 9 out save situation?

 

[Liquid Tension]

Will be interesting to see how the Victorino injury plays out. Worst case scenario is Francisco in CF, Raul DH'ing, and Buntlett :X in LF. It will be a real shame if an injury to a star effects the outcome of the series.

I know. Yanks really miss Melky

LOL, I also know that ARod is really sore from being hit 3 times and Texiera "said" getting hit has thrown him off his game.

 

[Michael Brown]

I don't think Pedro will get shelled. He'll put up his usual 6 or 7 innings, 3 or 4 runs. There's an outside chance that he pitches a gem as well. But if anything, Pedro has been consistent this year and always gives this team a chance to win.I don't know about Pettitte though. I wonder how he will pitch on short rest. He didn't look sharp game 3.

I have a feeling that Pettite and Pedro will end up being irrelevant and that the bullpens will decide this.

I would agree. But, I think people overlook the hitting aspect of the game. People will say, so and so just didn't have it, sometimes they are right, but when the Yankees were grooving pitches to Utley, he had to crush them. Switch to some of the grooved pitches that Texiera, Cano and even ARod had and the Yankees offense did not get the job done like Utley has. Jeter had a 2-0 count in the 9th Monday night; he took a hittable pitch for a strike and then with the count in his favor had a bad swing on a very hittable pitch. Is that good pitching or bad hitting? People incorrectly say they pitched well without knocking the offense and vice versa. These are excellent offensive teams and they need to take advantage of the hittable pitches and lay off the bad ones. In general, the Phillies I believe have done a little better job than the Yankees in swinging at good pitches and laying off the bad ones. What that also means is that I believe the Yankees have pitched a little better in the 5 games so far. This could be expected when the Yanks have thrown nothing but their 3 best and Philly had Blanton go. The question is whether the 3 days rest impacts Andy or not or even CC going twice on 3 days rest. I don't think Andy matches up well against this team anyway and I don't think the 3 days rest matters too much as he didn't have much velocity or command on full rest last game.If it goes 7 though CC may have a little loss in velocity, especially as the game goes on. if you remember while Milwaukee abused him last year, it did eventually show up. As a Yankee fan I hope he has one bullet in his gun. the key indicator for him is usually his control of the change up on any count on the outside corner to righties. If he is throwing 94 with that change up he can get through the game

Pedro was excellent this year, but he also hasn't had to face the same team twice in a short span all season yet. I can easily see the Yankees getting to him early tonight. Regardless of how they've done to this point, Tex and Cano are NOT bad hitters.Pettitte may not be quite the same guy on three days rest, so while I expect him to pitch well (6.2 IP, 2-3 ER) I also wouldn't be shocked to see a 5.1 IP, 4-5 ER type of performance.I think the Yankees being at home and having a well-rested Mariano, are in a much better position to close this thing out tonight than tomorrow. Let's just hope they take advantage.

they were talking about it on 660 yesterday. Do you go with Mo in a 9 out save situation?

If it's bases loaded nobody out and the Yanks up 3-1 in the top of the 7th, you know I'd be wishing Girardi would go against conventional wisdom and bring him in. Let him pitch the 7th and 8th, and if he stays out of trouble in the 9th, go for it. If he's showing signs of being visibly tired in the 9th (walking guys, cutter is flat), I'll be the guy vomiting in Section 420A.

 

[Liquid Tension]

Will be interesting to see how the Victorino injury plays out. Worst case scenario is Francisco in CF, Raul DH'ing, and Buntlett in LF. It will be a real shame if an injury to a star effects the outcome of the series.

I know. Yanks really miss Melky

Losing Melky would be like us losing Brunt, since that's what he would be on this squad, a 5th OF. Losing Vic is more like you guys losing Jeter since they're pretty similar offensive players and both play a demanding defensive position.

 

[Lehigh98]

Can we just stop the whole "mercenary" thing?... its ridiculous, TIA.

Actually it was pretty much dead and buried when you brought it back up again in Post 855 a couple pages back.

This?...

Not sure what sides you're talking about. I posted this as an example of the Yanks buying whoever they want. I had forgotten it extends past standard MLB FA's and into any foreign players entering the country like Matsui and Contreras which gives the Yanks another pool of talent to buy from.

What does that have to do with the whole silly idea of someone being a "mercenary"?Players want to get paid, the Yankees pay more than anyone else, hence the Yankees get who they want.

 

[jobarules]

So if the Phils win tonight, would they start Lee in game 7? Tell him, "We need 3-4 innings out of you and someone else will take it from there."

Why does everyone keep asking this? You do realize he gave up 5 runs in his last game?

 

[Whole Camels]

So if the Phils win tonight, would they start Lee in game 7? Tell him, "We need 3-4 innings out of you and someone else will take it from there."

There's absolutely no way anyone but Hamels starts game 7. Everyone reading way too much into those out of context quotes. Starting anyone else would be a total slap in the face to a guy that has a long future ahead of him in Philly. Charlie wouldnt do that.Im assuming that everyone but Hamels and Lee are available for tonight. They'll let Pedro go as long as he can tonight and then start filling in. Happ/Blanton for long relief. Chopper/Durbin/Eyre for situational matchups. Myers/Madson/Lidge for closers. Antonio Bastardo to pitch to Damon, I guess? (the only guy with any notable splits). Lee will replace whoever goes in the "long relief" role tonight and be the first out of the pen (in the event of) game 7.

 

[Michael Brown]

Can we just stop the whole "mercenary" thing?... its ridiculous, TIA.

Actually it was pretty much dead and buried when you brought it back up again in Post 855 a couple pages back.

This?...

Not sure what sides you're talking about. I posted this as an example of the Yanks buying whoever they want. I had forgotten it extends past standard MLB FA's and into any foreign players entering the country like Matsui and Contreras which gives the Yanks another pool of talent to buy from.

What does that have to do with the whole silly idea of someone being a "mercenary"?Players want to get paid, the Yankees pay more than anyone else, hence the Yankees get who they want.

You're killin me, Smalls. Do you want the topic to go away or not?

 

[Darth Cheney]

So if the Phils win tonight, would they start Lee in game 7? Tell him, "We need 3-4 innings out of you and someone else will take it from there."

There's absolutely no way anyone but Hamels starts game 7. Everyone reading way too much into those out of context quotes. Starting anyone else would be a total slap in the face to a guy that has a long future ahead of him in Philly. Charlie wouldnt do that.Im assuming that everyone but Hamels and Lee are available for tonight. They'll let Pedro go as long as he can tonight and then start filling in. Happ/Blanton for long relief. Chopper/Durbin/Eyre for situational matchups. Myers/Madson/Lidge for closers. Antonio Bastardo to pitch to Damon, I guess? (the only guy with any notable splits). Lee will replace whoever goes in the "long relief" role tonight and be the first out of the pen (in the event of) game 7.

I thought they left Bastardo off for Meyers?

 

[whoknew]

So if the Phils win tonight, would they start Lee in game 7? Tell him, "We need 3-4 innings out of you and someone else will take it from there."

There's absolutely no way anyone but Hamels starts game 7. Everyone reading way too much into those out of context quotes. Starting anyone else would be a total slap in the face to a guy that has a long future ahead of him in Philly. Charlie wouldnt do that.

My question has nothing to do with those comments and everything to do with the fact that Lee is better than Hamels. And if Hamels can't handle the fact that PHI wants to start its best pitcher in game 7 of the World Series, then I reckon he's too fragile to have long term success in MLB.

Im assuming that everyone but Hamels and Lee are available for tonight. They'll let Pedro go as long as he can tonight and then start filling in. Happ/Blanton for long relief. Chopper/Durbin/Eyre for situational matchups. Myers/Madson/Lidge for closers. Antonio Bastardo to pitch to Damon, I guess? (the only guy with any notable splits). Lee will replace whoever goes in the "long relief" role tonight and be the first out of the pen (in the event of) game 7.

The problem with bringing Lee out of the pen in game 7 is you could already have lost the game without using your best pitcher.

 

[Whole Camels]

So if the Phils win tonight, would they start Lee in game 7? Tell him, "We need 3-4 innings out of you and someone else will take it from there."

There's absolutely no way anyone but Hamels starts game 7. Everyone reading way too much into those out of context quotes. Starting anyone else would be a total slap in the face to a guy that has a long future ahead of him in Philly. Charlie wouldnt do that.Im assuming that everyone but Hamels and Lee are available for tonight. They'll let Pedro go as long as he can tonight and then start filling in. Happ/Blanton for long relief. Chopper/Durbin/Eyre for situational matchups. Myers/Madson/Lidge for closers. Antonio Bastardo to pitch to Damon, I guess? (the only guy with any notable splits). Lee will replace whoever goes in the "long relief" role tonight and be the first out of the pen (in the event of) game 7.

I thought they left Bastardo off for Meyers?

Cairo. Speaking of which, if Vic really couldnt go tonight, this move could come back to haunt Cholly. Especially since he hasnt even used Bastardo once and Damon is killing us. Ida probably rather seen Mayberry than Cairo in this situation anyway.

 

[whoknew]

So if the Phils win tonight, would they start Lee in game 7? Tell him, "We need 3-4 innings out of you and someone else will take it from there."

Why does everyone keep asking this? You do realize he gave up 5 runs in his last game?

So? Is that one sample representative of who Lee is? Do you not think that Lee is better than Hamels?

 

[Whole Camels]

So if the Phils win tonight, would they start Lee in game 7? Tell him, "We need 3-4 innings out of you and someone else will take it from there."

There's absolutely no way anyone but Hamels starts game 7. Everyone reading way too much into those out of context quotes. Starting anyone else would be a total slap in the face to a guy that has a long future ahead of him in Philly. Charlie wouldnt do that.

My question has nothing to do with those comments and everything to do with the fact that Lee is better than Hamels. And if Hamels can't handle the fact that PHI wants to start its best pitcher in game 7 of the World Series, then I reckon he's too fragile to have long term success in MLB.

Im assuming that everyone but Hamels and Lee are available for tonight. They'll let Pedro go as long as he can tonight and then start filling in. Happ/Blanton for long relief. Chopper/Durbin/Eyre for situational matchups. Myers/Madson/Lidge for closers. Antonio Bastardo to pitch to Damon, I guess? (the only guy with any notable splits). Lee will replace whoever goes in the "long relief" role tonight and be the first out of the pen (in the event of) game 7.

The problem with bringing Lee out of the pen in game 7 is you could already have lost the game without using your best pitcher.

Girardi is getting killed by everyone in media for being in a situation where he has to start guys on 3-days rest and you want Cholly to start a guy on 2? Over last year's WFC MVP? One of the best pitchers in the NL? On regular rest? Everyone will be available (in the event of) game 7 other than Pedro. The term short leash would be an understatement.

 

[Liquid Tension]

And if you really wanna see some crazy talk, read the post above mine where Whole Camels compares Shane Victorino to Derek Jeter.

Jeter has more history, but they seem pretty similar to me?

This explains all your bad posts. About 85 points of OPS is pretty similar? For perspective that is about the difference between Werth and Ruiz; so yes if they are similar, then you are right... ETA: the OPS is about 70 points, but you could add about 15 points to Jeter for his SB's compared to Victorino's. Victorino is +9 and Jeter was +20 (you subtract 2 for every CS)

 

[jobarules]

So if the Phils win tonight, would they start Lee in game 7? Tell him, "We need 3-4 innings out of you and someone else will take it from there."

Why does everyone keep asking this? You do realize he gave up 5 runs in his last game?

So? Is that one sample representative of who Lee is? Do you not think that Lee is better than Hamels?

Im just saying why on earth would the Phillies start Lee on two days rest when he gave up 5 runs the last game? He has had one dominant start and one below average start so Im not sure why the question is even being asked. Should the Yanks start Burnett in game 7? As a Yankee fan Id much rather face Lee on 2 days rest in game 7 then a fully rested Hamels.BTW prediction- Philly will use Lee to close out game 7 (hopefully it doesnt get to that).

 

[Leroy Hoard]

The cat's already out of the bag as far as the 3 or 4 days rest thing, one of these managers is going to have questions to answer after the series.

 

[Whole Camels]

And if you really wanna see some crazy talk, read the post above mine where Whole Camels compares Shane Victorino to Derek Jeter.

Jeter has more history, but they seem pretty similar to me?

This explains all your bad posts.

Why you gotta get all personal?

 

[Whole Camels]

ESPN poll on who wins - like 46% say yanks end it tonight - 44% say Phils in 7 - only 10% say yanks in 7.

Interesting

 

[Chunky Soup]

So if the Phils win tonight, would they start Lee in game 7? Tell him, "We need 3-4 innings out of you and someone else will take it from there."

Why does everyone keep asking this? You do realize he gave up 5 runs in his last game?

Because he's the best pitcher in the 2009 world series?

 

[Lehigh98]

ESPN poll on who wins - like 46% say yanks end it tonight - 44% say Phils in 7 - only 10% say yanks in 7. Interesting

The split isn't really, why would someone that likes the Yanks pick the 7 over 6 option?I do find it interesting that its only 56% total for the Yanks to win, should be higher than that.Maybe alot of Phils fans out on the innerwebs today.

 

[Whole Camels]

ESPN poll on who wins - like 46% say yanks end it tonight - 44% say Phils in 7 - only 10% say yanks in 7. Interesting

Maybe alot of Phils fans out on the innerwebs today.

everyone hoping to hear some good news on Vic.

 

[jobarules]

ESPN poll on who wins - like 46% say yanks end it tonight - 44% say Phils in 7 - only 10% say yanks in 7. Interesting

The split isn't really, why would someone that likes the Yanks pick the 7 over 6 option?I do find it interesting that its only 56% total for the Yanks to win, should be higher than that.Maybe alot of Phils fans out on the innerwebs today.

I thought the Phillies have been getting disrespected all series?

 

[Lehigh98]

ESPN poll on who wins - like 46% say yanks end it tonight - 44% say Phils in 7 - only 10% say yanks in 7. Interesting

The split isn't really, why would someone that likes the Yanks pick the 7 over 6 option?I do find it interesting that its only 56% total for the Yanks to win, should be higher than that.Maybe alot of Phils fans out on the innerwebs today.

I thought the Phillies have been getting disrespected all series?

Ok... even so, what does that have to do with anything?

 

[Michael Brown]

ESPN poll on who wins - like 46% say yanks end it tonight - 44% say Phils in 7 - only 10% say yanks in 7. Interesting

The split isn't really, why would someone that likes the Yanks pick the 7 over 6 option?I do find it interesting that its only 56% total for the Yanks to win, should be higher than that.Maybe alot of Phils fans out on the innerwebs today.

I thought the Phillies have been getting disrespected all series?

Ok... even so, what does that have to do with anything?

I think he's saying that the fact it's only 56-44 in favor of the Yanks despite being up 3-2 in the series means that the Phils are getting a lot of respect. I also would've expected that a team with 100+ regular season wins and a great home record that come home up 3-2 with the all-time postseason leader in wins and a Cy Young candidate pitching the two games would be given more than a 56% share of the vote.Not saying I think the Yanks have it in the bag by any means, just that I would've thought the general public would've been higher on the Yanks than they are.

 

[jobarules]

ESPN poll on who wins - like 46% say yanks end it tonight - 44% say Phils in 7 - only 10% say yanks in 7. Interesting

The split isn't really, why would someone that likes the Yanks pick the 7 over 6 option?I do find it interesting that its only 56% total for the Yanks to win, should be higher than that.Maybe alot of Phils fans out on the innerwebs today.

I thought the Phillies have been getting disrespected all series?

Ok... even so, what does that have to do with anything?

Im just tired of hearing the disrespect angle/whining when its clearly not true.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

I think a lot of the "respect" angle has more to do with the media and less to do with the fans, who tend to want the underdog to win.

 

[Lehigh98]

ESPN poll on who wins - like 46% say yanks end it tonight - 44% say Phils in 7 - only 10% say yanks in 7. Interesting

The split isn't really, why would someone that likes the Yanks pick the 7 over 6 option?I do find it interesting that its only 56% total for the Yanks to win, should be higher than that.Maybe alot of Phils fans out on the innerwebs today.

I thought the Phillies have been getting disrespected all series?

Ok... even so, what does that have to do with anything?

I think he's saying that the fact it's only 56-44 in favor of the Yanks despite being up 3-2 in the series means that the Phils are getting a lot of respect. I also would've expected that a team with 100+ regular season wins and a great home record that come home up 3-2 with the all-time postseason leader in wins and a Cy Young candidate pitching the two games would be given more than a 56% share of the vote.Not saying I think the Yanks have it in the bag by any means, just that I would've thought the general public would've been higher on the Yanks than they are.

I think Yankee hate has as big or bigger effect on that than respect for the Phils.

 

[Lehigh98]

ESPN poll on who wins - like 46% say yanks end it tonight - 44% say Phils in 7 - only 10% say yanks in 7. Interesting

The split isn't really, why would someone that likes the Yanks pick the 7 over 6 option?I do find it interesting that its only 56% total for the Yanks to win, should be higher than that.Maybe alot of Phils fans out on the innerwebs today.

I thought the Phillies have been getting disrespected all series?

Ok... even so, what does that have to do with anything?

Im just tired of hearing the disrespect angle/whining when its clearly not true.

Depends, what do you define as disrespect?Being 2:1 dogs and having generally 95% of baseball talking heads picking against you?Is that disrespect of the Phillies or rather a whole lot of respect for the Yankees?I don't think Phils fans liked being almost universally picked to lose, call it what you will.

 

[Snotbubbles]

So if the Phils win tonight, would they start Lee in game 7? Tell him, "We need 3-4 innings out of you and someone else will take it from there."

Why does everyone keep asking this? You do realize he gave up 5 runs in his last game?

So? Is that one sample representative of who Lee is? Do you not think that Lee is better than Hamels?

Im just saying why on earth would the Phillies start Lee on two days rest when he gave up 5 runs the last game? He has had one dominant start and one below average start so Im not sure why the question is even being asked. Should the Yanks start Burnett in game 7? As a Yankee fan Id much rather face Lee on 2 days rest in game 7 then a fully rested Hamels.BTW prediction- Philly will use Lee to close out game 7 (hopefully it doesnt get to that).

Hamels will start game 7, no doubt about it. Cliff Lee will be available out of the bullpen for probably around 50 pitches. This whole situation however is putting the cart in front of the horse. There is still a game to be played before we get to that.I like the Phils chances if it does go 7 though.

 

[Chunky Soup]

ESPN poll on who wins - like 46% say yanks end it tonight - 44% say Phils in 7 - only 10% say yanks in 7. Interesting

The split isn't really, why would someone that likes the Yanks pick the 7 over 6 option?I do find it interesting that its only 56% total for the Yanks to win, should be higher than that.Maybe alot of Phils fans out on the innerwebs today.

I thought the Phillies have been getting disrespected all series?

Ok... even so, what does that have to do with anything?

Im just tired of hearing the disrespect angle/whining when its clearly not true.

Yet you're bringing it up out of nowhere.

 

[Darth Cheney]

Depends, what do you define as disrespect?Being 2:1 dogs and having generally 95% of baseball talking heads picking against you?Is that disrespect of the Phillies or rather a whole lot of respect for the Yankees?I don't think Phils fans liked being almost universally picked to lose, call it what you will.

Maybe a lot of it is relative to who you've seen more? If you were to give me the name of one Philadelphia sports person who didn't pick the Phillies to win..... that'd be the first one I've heard of. Are all those regional analysists disrepecting the Yankees?

 

[Liquid Tension]

I don't think Pedro will get shelled. He'll put up his usual 6 or 7 innings, 3 or 4 runs. There's an outside chance that he pitches a gem as well. But if anything, Pedro has been consistent this year and always gives this team a chance to win.I don't know about Pettitte though. I wonder how he will pitch on short rest. He didn't look sharp game 3.

I have a feeling that Pettite and Pedro will end up being irrelevant and that the bullpens will decide this.

I would agree. But, I think people overlook the hitting aspect of the game. People will say, so and so just didn't have it, sometimes they are right, but when the Yankees were grooving pitches to Utley, he had to crush them. Switch to some of the grooved pitches that Texiera, Cano and even ARod had and the Yankees offense did not get the job done like Utley has. Jeter had a 2-0 count in the 9th Monday night; he took a hittable pitch for a strike and then with the count in his favor had a bad swing on a very hittable pitch. Is that good pitching or bad hitting? People incorrectly say they pitched well without knocking the offense and vice versa. These are excellent offensive teams and they need to take advantage of the hittable pitches and lay off the bad ones. In general, the Phillies I believe have done a little better job than the Yankees in swinging at good pitches and laying off the bad ones. What that also means is that I believe the Yankees have pitched a little better in the 5 games so far. This could be expected when the Yanks have thrown nothing but their 3 best and Philly had Blanton go. The question is whether the 3 days rest impacts Andy or not or even CC going twice on 3 days rest. I don't think Andy matches up well against this team anyway and I don't think the 3 days rest matters too much as he didn't have much velocity or command on full rest last game.If it goes 7 though CC may have a little loss in velocity, especially as the game goes on. if you remember while Milwaukee abused him last year, it did eventually show up. As a Yankee fan I hope he has one bullet in his gun. the key indicator for him is usually his control of the change up on any count on the outside corner to righties. If he is throwing 94 with that change up he can get through the game

Pedro was excellent this year, but he also hasn't had to face the same team twice in a short span all season yet. I can easily see the Yankees getting to him early tonight. Regardless of how they've done to this point, Tex and Cano are NOT bad hitters.Pettitte may not be quite the same guy on three days rest, so while I expect him to pitch well (6.2 IP, 2-3 ER) I also wouldn't be shocked to see a 5.1 IP, 4-5 ER type of performance.I think the Yankees being at home and having a well-rested Mariano, are in a much better position to close this thing out tonight than tomorrow. Let's just hope they take advantage.

they were talking about it on 660 yesterday. Do you go with Mo in a 9 out save situation?

No

 

[Tremendous Upside]

9 outs?

No ####### way

Especially not in a game 6 with a Game 7 at home

 

[Whole Camels]

Funny reading the first few pages where everyone is giving a slight edge to Utley over Cano. These two guys could not be further apart right now.That is why they play the games.

Utley's been the best player for either team. When he gets locked in like this he's scary.

Give me Utley as the WS MVP, regardless of which team wins at this point.

That would be an interview for the ages. Rosenthal would get nothing but the ice-cold Utley death stare.

 

[Liquid Tension]

So if the Phils win tonight, would they start Lee in game 7? Tell him, "We need 3-4 innings out of you and someone else will take it from there."

There's absolutely no way anyone but Hamels starts game 7. Everyone reading way too much into those out of context quotes. Starting anyone else would be a total slap in the face to a guy that has a long future ahead of him in Philly. Charlie wouldnt do that.

My question has nothing to do with those comments and everything to do with the fact that Lee is better than Hamels. And if Hamels can't handle the fact that PHI wants to start its best pitcher in game 7 of the World Series, then I reckon he's too fragile to have long term success in MLB.

Im assuming that everyone but Hamels and Lee are available for tonight. They'll let Pedro go as long as he can tonight and then start filling in. Happ/Blanton for long relief. Chopper/Durbin/Eyre for situational matchups. Myers/Madson/Lidge for closers. Antonio Bastardo to pitch to Damon, I guess? (the only guy with any notable splits). Lee will replace whoever goes in the "long relief" role tonight and be the first out of the pen (in the event of) game 7.

The problem with bringing Lee out of the pen in game 7 is you could already have lost the game without using your best pitcher.

If you were going to do that you should have pitched him in game 4. That being said, i agree with you about Hamel's, I could care less about his ego at this point, you make the moves that help you win PERIOD.

 

[Whole Camels]

si.com

"I would think what we want to do is drive up his pitch count, make him work," said Yankees outfielder Eric Hinske, which is exactly the battle plan the Yankees deployed against Pedro in his prime. Joe West is the home plate umpire tonight, so a small strike zone with these two teams hitting will mean tougher duty for the pitchers. (Strikeout, walk and slugging rates with West behind the plate all favor the hitter, compared to average rates.)

Huh, I always thought of West as a big zone guy. Probably only when Mariano pitches.

 

[Liquid Tension]

So if the Phils win tonight, would they start Lee in game 7? Tell him, "We need 3-4 innings out of you and someone else will take it from there."

There's absolutely no way anyone but Hamels starts game 7. Everyone reading way too much into those out of context quotes. Starting anyone else would be a total slap in the face to a guy that has a long future ahead of him in Philly. Charlie wouldnt do that.

My question has nothing to do with those comments and everything to do with the fact that Lee is better than Hamels. And if Hamels can't handle the fact that PHI wants to start its best pitcher in game 7 of the World Series, then I reckon he's too fragile to have long term success in MLB.

Im assuming that everyone but Hamels and Lee are available for tonight. They'll let Pedro go as long as he can tonight and then start filling in. Happ/Blanton for long relief. Chopper/Durbin/Eyre for situational matchups. Myers/Madson/Lidge for closers. Antonio Bastardo to pitch to Damon, I guess? (the only guy with any notable splits). Lee will replace whoever goes in the "long relief" role tonight and be the first out of the pen (in the event of) game 7.

The problem with bringing Lee out of the pen in game 7 is you could already have lost the game without using your best pitcher.

Girardi is getting killed by everyone in media for being in a situation where he has to start guys on 3-days rest and you want Cholly to start a guy on 2? Over last year's WFC MVP? One of the best pitchers in the NL? On regular rest? Everyone will be available (in the event of) game 7 other than Pedro. The term short leash would be an understatement.

I wouldn't use the media as an example to prove your point as they don't know anything. I mean when Philly won the opener it was how great they were and they are the Champs and this is why and the Yankees are in deep trouble. Then the Yanks win 3 in a row and the Phillies are on life support and they just can't keep up with the Yankees better bullpen and 2nd and 3rd starters...then the Phillies win and now all the pressure is on the Yankees and Girardi has painted himself in a corner...blah, blah, blah....everythhing is over exaggerated to the point of absurdity. I would have Lee ready to pitch, but I would not start him and if that is in Charlie's mind then he screwed up game 4.

 

[Lehigh98]

Depends, what do you define as disrespect?

Being 2:1 dogs and having generally 95% of baseball talking heads picking against you?

Is that disrespect of the Phillies or rather a whole lot of respect for the Yankees?

I don't think Phils fans liked being almost universally picked to lose, call it what you will.

Maybe a lot of it is relative to who you've seen more? If you were to give me the name of one Philadelphia sports person who didn't pick the Phillies to win..... that'd be the first one I've heard of. Are all those regional analysists disrepecting the Yankees?

Without checking the rest, Jason Stark immediately comes to mind.ETA: Link (And I was wrong, it was only 91% here.)

 

[Redwes25]

Can we just stop the whole "mercenary" thing?... its ridiculous, TIA.

Exactly, these guys are employees and just like anyone else in this thread they go work for the person who pays them the most. I am jumping from my job as soon as I can find someone who will pay me more and the rest of you would to.

 

[Giantseasonticketholder]

THIS AIN'T GOIN TO GAME 7!!!

I'm pulling out the Messier here. Lock it up!

 

[Whole Camels]

Can we just stop the whole "mercenary" thing?... its ridiculous, TIA.

Exactly, these guys are employees and just like anyone else in this thread they go work for the person who pays them the most. I am jumping from my job as soon as I can find someone who will pay me more and the rest of you would to.

Congratulations. This comment now holds the distinction of having the least to do with the original discussion of any posted in the entire thread (and that says A LOT). PS - I love the way everyone keeps trying to stop the conversation by digging it back up!