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Offical Korean War Thread (2 Viewers)

Ursa M said:
cstu said:
After the surrender of Japan in August 1945, the 38th parallel was established as the boundary by Dean Rusk and Charles Bonesteel of the U.S. State Department - War - Navy Coordinating Committee in Washington, D.C. during the night of the 10th of August 1945, four days before the liberation of Korea.
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Nice job, guys.
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What were they supposed to do, thumb their noses at Stalin?
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From reading about how it happened it seemed like the U.S. were gutless, believing that Stalin would reject any line north of the 38th and they wouldn't be able to hold any positions in Korea if he refused. However, no attempt was even made to negotiate for the 39th parallel and Stalin instantly accepted the offer of the 38th. Huge mistake.

The Soviets, absent a stern American warning not to enter Korea, and in a superior military position, were generally deemed capable of occupying the entire peninsula before any American troops could get there. Only Stalin’s willingness, it is generally thought, to accept the surrender arrangement made possible the American occupation of southern Korea. However, according to historian Michael Sandusky, U.S. military planners thought the Soviets were capable of much more than was the case. He argues that the on-the-ground situation on August 15, 1945 in Korea and Manchuria was vastly different from what Washington perceived. He says:

In Korea, the meager Soviet forces were brought to a standstill in Chongjin [about 45 miles south of the Soviet border with Korea]. Few Soviet troops were in Korea and the ones that were there were pinned down by resolute Japanese troops.…[T]he Soviets were in no position to expand their presence in Korea.…In Korea, Soviet forces were still well above the forty-first parallel [above Kimchaek on the eastern coast].

Sandusky argues that given the naval and air transport capabilities the U.S. had at its disposal, key areas of Korea as far north as Hamhung (near the 40th parallel) could have been secured by U.S. forces had these areas been accorded the proper priority. At that point, the U.S. had an ability to move troops superior to the Soviets; in order to reach Pyongyang on August 24, the Russians even had to airlift troops. He implies that so much American attention was riveted on obtaining Japan’s surrender that military resources that could have been directed toward Korea were not.
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If we try to shoot down a NK missile and miss, it is going to weaken our stature with the Chinese/Russians; if we shoot it down, we verify what capabilities we have and start those countries off on trying to circumvent those capabilities. The only way we shoot down a missile is if it is threatening Japan (or somewhere else) and most likely we feel that it is an act of war. I for one do not believe that NK does anything without China's approval. If the NK shoots a missile it is because China wants to see what our technology/strategy is in reaction to it.

 
Looks like the Axis of Evil is playing the US like a fiddle.

As soon as the US turns its attention to Korea, Iran ramps up its own nuclear production.

Seems the US was a bit naive in thinking they could keep either country from developing nuclear weapons.

 
Sinn Fein said:
Looks like the Axis of Evil is playing the US like a fiddle.

As soon as the US turns its attention to Korea, Iran ramps up its own nuclear production.

Seems the US was a bit naive in thinking they could keep either country from developing nuclear weapons.
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We can if we want to. :shrug:

 
Flying Spaghetti Monster said:
Not really sure what we can do with the situation deteriorating with NK, but if I was Japan i would be really worried.
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we can start by not provoking them with war games and such.
The White House, the Pentagon and the State Department are looking very carefully at American words and pending actions to make sure that they cant be misread, or that the likelihood of them being misread is low as well as to not give the North Koreans fodder for escalation, excuses to take action, according to an administration official familiar with the U.S. strategy.

Theres not a formal review going on, and we are not going to withhold or postpone any step that we consider necessary for the safety of the American people, the official, who requested anonymity, told Yahoo News.

But those things that could be not necessary? Were giving those a closer look, the official said. That means assessing our ship deployments, missile tests to make sure they dont unnecessarily raise the temperature in the already heated standoff.
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http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/u-working-escalate-north-korean-standoff-094001335--politics.html
 
Novice2 said:
Flying Spaghetti Monster said:
Not really sure what we can do with the situation deteriorating with NK, but if I was Japan i would be really worried.
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we can start by not provoking them with war games and such.
>The White House, the Pentagon and the State Department are looking very carefully at American words and pending actions to make sure that they cant be misread, or that the likelihood of them being misread is low as well as to not give the North Koreans fodder for escalation, excuses to take action, according to an administration official familiar with the U.S. strategy.

Theres not a formal review going on, and we are not going to withhold or postpone any step that we consider necessary for the safety of the American people, the official, who requested anonymity, told Yahoo News.

But those things that could be not necessary? Were giving those a closer look, the official said. That means assessing our ship deployments, missile tests to make sure they dont unnecessarily raise the temperature in the already heated standoff.
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http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/u-working-escalate-north-korean-standoff-094001335--politics.html
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I don't consider it provocation to have exercises with allies staring at 700k enemy forces just over the border. I consider that mass of NK soldiers a constant provocation.

 
NK is now advising foreigners to leave SK. Wonder if that includes U.S. Troops.

In related news, NK is having internal discussions regarding advising foreigners to leave: Japan, U.S., Taiwan, India, ......

 
Sinn Fein said:
The statement from the U.K. Foreign Office said its embassy in Pyongyang “received a communication from the North Korean government this morning saying that the North Korean government would be unable to guarantee the safety of embassies and international organizations in the country in the event of conflict from April 10th.”
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Its now 7:45 in the morning of the 10th in Korea

:popcorn:

 
Sinn Fein said:
Sinn Fein said:
The statement from the U.K. Foreign Office said its embassy in Pyongyang “received a communication from the North Korean government this morning saying that the North Korean government would be unable to guarantee the safety of embassies and international organizations in the country in the event of conflict from April 10th.”
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Its now 7:45 in the morning of the 10th in Korea

:popcorn:
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It's now 8:29 am in Japan. Yetserday in mainland Japan (we are in Okinawa) missle interceptors were deployed around Tokyo.

 
Putting #northkorea in the twitter search engine is a sad commentary on the average intelligence of young people.

 
What are the chances Kim Jong Un concedes power, the country is united peacefully, and people from North Korea finally get a good meal.

 
I'm going to go ahead and call NK's bluff. They're posturing to try and get things that they want, but they're definitely not making any friends in the region. if they test a rocket, I say we intercept it immediately, and see what they're going to do.

 
Kal El said:
I'm going to go ahead and call NK's bluff. They're posturing to try and get things that they want, but they're definitely not making any friends in the region. if they test a rocket, I say we intercept it immediately, and see what they're going to do.
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I'm a definitely "no" on the missile intercept, absent the missile being aimed at something rather than just launched into the ocean. I'd rather track the missile and learn more about their missile technology (there are some missiles they haven't even test launched before).

What would intercepting a missile prove? Everyone knows we have the technology to do that, probably the best in the world, so why demonstrate its precise capabilities, while also enduring the risk of embarrassing risk of failure if we miss (hitting what amounts to a bullet with another bullet remains far from a guaranteed proposition, even in controlled test settings).

If NK launches a test missile, it's one more aggressive act they'll have made that is meaningless insofar as the immediate situation on the ground is concerned but that will give rise to even more condemnation by the UN, China and Russia (and everyone else). If we try to shoot it down we are watering down that effect.

 
North Korea has positioned two mobile missile launchers on the country's east coast, senior Pentagon officials tell Fox News -- movement that comes as Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel warned Wednesday that North Korea is "skating very close to a dangerous line."

The senior Pentagon officials told Fox News that a test of the Musudan missiles could occur "at any time." If the North Koreans proceed, it would be the first mobile test of this specific intermediate-range missile, which has a range of 2,500 miles.

The fact that this would be their first test is giving military leaders an added layer of uncertainty about the potential for an unintended mistake.

Separately, Hagel and Joint Chiefs Chairman Gen. Martin Dempsey addressed the North Korean crisis during a press briefing Wednesday afternoon. They said America and its allies want to ratchet down the tensions but Kim Jong Un's regime has made it difficult.

"North Korea has been, with its bellicose rhetoric, with its actions ... skating very close to a dangerous line. Their actions and their words have not helped defuse a combustible situation," Hagel said.

Reiterating statements made by America's top Pacific commander on Capitol Hill a day earlier, Hagel said the U.S. is "fully prepared to deal with any contingency, any action that North Korea may take."

"We have every capacity to... protect this country and our allies," Hagel said.

The comments come after South Korea's foreign minister told lawmakers in his country that the prospect of a North Korean missile launch is "considerably high."

 
I'm still having a hard time taking Chuck Hagel seriously. He looks like a guy they just dragged in off the street.

I hope he knows what he's doing.

 
jamny said:
I'm still having a hard time taking Chuck Hagel seriously. He looks like a guy they just dragged in off the street.

I hope he knows what he's doing.
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"North Korea has been, with its bellicose rhetoric, with its actions ... skating very close to a dangerous line. Their actions and their words have not helped defuse a combustible situation," Hagel said.

Not sure Hagel is aware that NK's goal is to have a combustible situation

 
Buddy Ball 2K3 said:
jamny said:
I'm still having a hard time taking Chuck Hagel seriously. He looks like a guy they just dragged in off the street.

I hope he knows what he's doing.
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"North Korea has been, with its bellicose rhetoric, with its actions ... skating very close to a dangerous line. Their actions and their words have not helped defuse a combustible situation," Hagel said.

Not sure Hagel is aware that NK's goal is to have a combustible situation
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Is it? Then why don't they just attack South Korea and get it over with? Why all of this dicking around?

 
timschochet said:
Buddy Ball 2K3 said:
jamny said:
I'm still having a hard time taking Chuck Hagel seriously. He looks like a guy they just dragged in off the street.

I hope he knows what he's doing.
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"North Korea has been, with its bellicose rhetoric, with its actions ... skating very close to a dangerous line. Their actions and their words have not helped defuse a combustible situation," Hagel said.

Not sure Hagel is aware that NK's goal is to have a combustible situation
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Is it? Then why don't they just attack South Korea and get it over with? Why all of this dicking around?
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They dont have to attack SK to make it a combustible situation.

 
Buddy Ball 2K3 said:
jamny said:
I'm still having a hard time taking Chuck Hagel seriously. He looks like a guy they just dragged in off the street.

I hope he knows what he's doing.
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"North Korea has been, with its bellicose rhetoric, with its actions ... skating very close to a dangerous line. Their actions and their words have not helped defuse a combustible situation," Hagel said.

Not sure Hagel is aware that NK's goal is to have a combustible situation
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You do realize that Hagel's soundbites are not necessarily intended to display all that he knows or thinks about the situation, right?

 
timschochet said:
Buddy Ball 2K3 said:
jamny said:
I'm still having a hard time taking Chuck Hagel seriously. He looks like a guy they just dragged in off the street.

I hope he knows what he's doing.
Click to expand...
"North Korea has been, with its bellicose rhetoric, with its actions ... skating very close to a dangerous line. Their actions and their words have not helped defuse a combustible situation," Hagel said.

Not sure Hagel is aware that NK's goal is to have a combustible situation
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Is it? Then why don't they just attack South Korea and get it over with? Why all of this dicking around?
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It's not the goal. The goals are; regime survival, national security, and economic strength, in that order.

There are several analysts, who understand the region, that has given options for how to proceed and reasons behind DPRK's actions. The main problem is that some players refuse to interpret actions from the opponents view, and stick to their own.

DPRK is not the only provoking party if you look at the situation without bias and from both mindsets. The ROK has done their share of provoking and while we may not agree that those actions are provocations, in the eyes of the DPRK they are.

ETA: Since this is the FFA, I guess I need to clarify that I am not excusing any DPRK behavior, I am just trying to understand the motivation, from their perspective, of their actions.

 
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Buddy Ball 2K3 said:
jamny said:
I'm still having a hard time taking Chuck Hagel seriously. He looks like a guy they just dragged in off the street.

I hope he knows what he's doing.
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"North Korea has been, with its bellicose rhetoric, with its actions ... skating very close to a dangerous line. Their actions and their words have not helped defuse a combustible situation," Hagel said.

Not sure Hagel is aware that NK's goal is to have a combustible situation
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Yeah, he probably has no idea. He's definitely not saying that to lay the groundwork for excusing US action against NK. Best bet is that he's playing Pokeman With Friends with Un and isn't even aware of current missile deployments.
 
Fennis said:
Salons write up of how we got here: http://www.salon.com/2013/04/05/north_korea_whats_really_happening/

They don't go back far enough IMO (only to Clinton), but its a good read.
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One incident from 2010 underscores how little Obama was interested in negotiations. That fall, a delegation of former high-ranking U.S. officials visited Pyongyang and met with senior officials in Kim Jong-il’s government. As I reported shortly after their return, the delegation was told “that Pyongyang is prepared to ship out all of its nuclear fuel rods, the key ingredient for producing weapons-grade plutonium, to a third country in exchange for a U.S. commitment to pledge that it has ‘no hostile intent” toward the DPRK.” Joel Wit, a former State Department official who was part of the delegation, recalled last week that the offer “would have been a first step toward permanently disabling the [Yongban] facility, making sure the reactor would never again be a threat.” The offer, he added, “was dutifully reported to the Obama administration in briefings for the White House, the State Department, the Department of Defense, and the intelligence community.” But the Obama White House “didn’t even listen,” Wit said.
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Well, there ya go.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Fennis said:
Salons write up of how we got here: http://www.salon.com/2013/04/05/north_korea_whats_really_happening/

They don't go back far enough IMO (only to Clinton), but its a good read.
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>One incident from 2010 underscores how little Obama was interested in negotiations. That fall, a delegation of former high-ranking U.S. officials visited Pyongyang and met with senior officials in Kim Jong-il’s government. As I reported shortly after their return, the delegation was told “that Pyongyang is prepared to ship out all of its nuclear fuel rods, the key ingredient for producing weapons-grade plutonium, to a third country in exchange for a U.S. commitment to pledge that it has ‘no hostile intent” toward the DPRK.” Joel Wit, a former State Department official who was part of the delegation, recalled last week that the offer “would have been a first step toward permanently disabling the [Yongban] facility, making sure the reactor would never again be a threat.” The offer, he added, “was dutifully reported to the Obama administration in briefings for the White House, the State Department, the Department of Defense, and the intelligence community.” But the Obama White House “didn’t even listen,” Wit said.
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Well, there ya go.
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They offered that because they no longer need it. They only used Yongban to make plutonium bombs. They have moved on to Uranium. So it wasn't much of an offer. That's why the Obama White House didn't even listen. Mr. Wit is supposed to be smarter than this.

 
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