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***Official 2009 Philadelphia Eagles Thread*** (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Deranged Hermit
- Start date
GoBirds
Footballguy
Maybe Reno Mahe gets it done!Can we also throw in Jeremy Bloom?
Mighty Mice
Footballguy
After seeing somebody trade for Greg Lewis, why not Justice?!?!?!?
massraider
Footballguy
Man, if they don't take a back at #21, and don't get Bolddin, this thread is going to be must-read stuff.
Game Time
Footballguy
man this anticipation is killing me.... I can't wait to see what unfolds... The great thing is... even if nothing occurs and they keep #21 and get Moreno or someone I'd still be happy... Added a great FB.. Improved the O-Line..... added S.Jones ... lots of things to be excited about....
Jason Wood
Zoo York
I'm really struggling to understand why everyone is fixated on Knowshon Moreno 
I'm kind of hoping we don't take him, too, just to see the inmates running around the asylum.
I'm kind of hoping we don't take him, too, just to see the inmates running around the asylum.
Zoomanji
Footballguy
I'm really struggling to understand why everyone is fixated on Knowshon MorenoI'm kind of hoping we don't take him, too, just to see the inmates running around the asylum.
Actually :greatpost:vinwinephans
Footballguy
I really think this is stemming from every talking head pimping this guy as the most complete NFL ready RB in draft that fits the Eagles scheme perfectly and he should be there at 21 and the birds have no other glaring weaknesses that warrant that #1 pick. People are buying into it.Add in that RB is the sexy pick ala the Ricky Williams hype of drafts past and you have a instant cocktail for the herd mentality.I have not read one article or heard one interview that has not spotlighted Moreno for that pick.I'm really struggling to understand why everyone is fixated on Knowshon MorenoI'm kind of hoping we don't take him, too, just to see the inmates running around the asylum.
JetMaxx
Footballguy
Perhaps because he's a high character, team leader type of player who has unique skills as a ball carrier, is an excellent blocker and fine receiver out of the backfield?I'm really struggling to understand why everyone is fixated on Knowshon Moreno
Perhaps because he has produced against top flight competition in the SEC(unlike Brown, Jennings) isn't slow and small(McCoy)? Perhaps because he is the IDEAL fit because of the fact that he's a remarkably talented, productive player at one of the biggest positions of need on the team?
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This trade will not happen. If anyone thinks the Eagles are paying Boldin the same as Fitz they are crazy. He just isn't worth as much as Fitz. The only way this happens is if the Eagles get Boldin off his asking price before the picks traded are due. I don't see the Eagles completing the trade until they have a deal agreed upon with boldin. Boldin deserves half what fitz gets paid.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Arizona is reportedly confirming that they have one offer on the table but that they don't view it as being anywhere near enough value and have no interest in the offer.
inzanitee
Footballguy
That's just crazy talk. Fitzy is better, but the gap is much closer than you think.
loose circuits
Footballguy
Perhaps because he's a high character, team leader type of player who has unique skills as a ball carrier, is an excellent blocker and fine receiver out of the backfield?I'm really struggling to understand why everyone is fixated on Knowshon Moreno
Perhaps because he is the IDEAL fit because of the fact that he's a remarkably talented, productive player at one of the biggest positions of need on the team?
I agree, especially the 3rd part. RB is by far our biggest need. With only Booker/Westy on the roster. There is short term and long term need there. Seems to me like it is a no brainer if he is there.
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Jason Wood
Zoo York
Sounds great, except that we pick at 1.21. This isn't a guy considered to be an elite, can't miss prospect. If he were, he wouldn't be projected to be available at 1.21 like his is in every mock. He's not even the consensus top RB in this draft, Beanie Wells is. I don't have a problem with Moreno, don't misconstrue. And sure, the fan in me would love to see us land RB firepower in the 1st round. BUT, I think fans are setting themselves up to a point where if we don't take Moreno they're going to cry foul when we could EASILY get significant RB help in the 2nd, 3rd or later rounds. Philly will take the best player available, and the odds of that being Moreno aren't that high given all the positions in the draft.Perhaps because he's a high character, team leader type of player who has unique skills as a ball carrier, is an excellent blocker and fine receiver out of the backfield?I'm really struggling to understand why everyone is fixated on Knowshon Moreno
Perhaps because he is the IDEAL fit because of the fact that he's a remarkably talented, productive player at one of the biggest positions of need on the team?
Jeff Pasquino
Footballguy
Wow, took a while to catch up on this thread - and I was only absent for about 2 days.....
Several things to comment on:
1. I'd love - LOVE - to get Boldin, even for a first. I don't buy into the reduced price rumors, as the Cards know what they have. The "ying" is that Philly is an NFC team, but the "yang" is that if Moreno is there at 21 and the Cards love him, this could be enough to trigger a deal.
2. Regarding draft values on the chart - throw it out. THROW. IT. OUT. The economics have changed EVERYTHING. The #1 pick will be the highest paid player at his position - without doing anything yet in the NFL. Goodell even said that the first 32 players will get $600M in contracts, $400M guaranteed. Perspective check - the salary cap is $127M this year - which means that the first round rookies will get more three teams' total salaries guaranteed, and nearly 5 teams' worth of money in deals. That's insane.
3. See #2 as to why the #5 pick could be on the table.
4. I like Moreno and I think the Eagles need a plug-in replacement for Westbrook. The Eagles are known for drafting for 1+ years in the future (remember drafting corners when they had two Pro Bowlers?) so taking "Westy 2.0" or the closest thing to it makes sense. Yes, Leonard Weaver can be Buckhalter, but he cannot be Westy if Westy goes down for an extended period of time.
5. Shame not to get in on the Gonzo deal, but a 2nd was a hefty price. Props to Atlanta for getting the player they wanted, who immediately says he'll play 3-4 years now. Nice. See what a good team and a change of scenery can do (wake up Peters)?
6. Cannot wait to see what comes down tomorrow. I have no idea what will happen, but can't wait to see it unfold.
7. DH is the man - one of the best sources I've ever seen. We're truly lucky to have him here.
Let's not screw that up.
8. I don't mind at all if they aren't in love with Moreno and think Brown or Jennings can be the #2 back. I will be upset if they get past the 3rd without a RB.
Several things to comment on:
1. I'd love - LOVE - to get Boldin, even for a first. I don't buy into the reduced price rumors, as the Cards know what they have. The "ying" is that Philly is an NFC team, but the "yang" is that if Moreno is there at 21 and the Cards love him, this could be enough to trigger a deal.
2. Regarding draft values on the chart - throw it out. THROW. IT. OUT. The economics have changed EVERYTHING. The #1 pick will be the highest paid player at his position - without doing anything yet in the NFL. Goodell even said that the first 32 players will get $600M in contracts, $400M guaranteed. Perspective check - the salary cap is $127M this year - which means that the first round rookies will get more three teams' total salaries guaranteed, and nearly 5 teams' worth of money in deals. That's insane.
3. See #2 as to why the #5 pick could be on the table.
4. I like Moreno and I think the Eagles need a plug-in replacement for Westbrook. The Eagles are known for drafting for 1+ years in the future (remember drafting corners when they had two Pro Bowlers?) so taking "Westy 2.0" or the closest thing to it makes sense. Yes, Leonard Weaver can be Buckhalter, but he cannot be Westy if Westy goes down for an extended period of time.
5. Shame not to get in on the Gonzo deal, but a 2nd was a hefty price. Props to Atlanta for getting the player they wanted, who immediately says he'll play 3-4 years now. Nice. See what a good team and a change of scenery can do (wake up Peters)?
6. Cannot wait to see what comes down tomorrow. I have no idea what will happen, but can't wait to see it unfold.
7. DH is the man - one of the best sources I've ever seen. We're truly lucky to have him here.
Let's not screw that up.
8. I don't mind at all if they aren't in love with Moreno and think Brown or Jennings can be the #2 back. I will be upset if they get past the 3rd without a RB.
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
What about Weaver? I think he can take over Bucks carries.Perhaps because he's a high character, team leader type of player who has unique skills as a ball carrier, is an excellent blocker and fine receiver out of the backfield?I'm really struggling to understand why everyone is fixated on Knowshon Moreno
Perhaps because he is the IDEAL fit because of the fact that he's a remarkably talented, productive player at one of the biggest positions of need on the team?
Jason Wood
Zoo York
We signed him to a 1-year minimal deal as a fullback. He's not the answer to a RB committee. He's never had more than 33 rushing attempts in a SEASON, he's not a guy that's going to give us 125-150 carries effectively.What about Weaver? I think he can take over Bucks carries.Perhaps because he's a high character, team leader type of player who has unique skills as a ball carrier, is an excellent blocker and fine receiver out of the backfield?I'm really struggling to understand why everyone is fixated on Knowshon Moreno
Perhaps because he is the IDEAL fit because of the fact that he's a remarkably talented, productive player at one of the biggest positions of need on the team?
massraider
Footballguy
I have no dog in this fight, but does it really matter if they overpay Boldin? With the cap money this team has, is that really an issue?
E-A-G-L-E-S
Footballguy
ThisPerhaps because he's a high character, team leader type of player who has unique skills as a ball carrier, is an excellent blocker and fine receiver out of the backfield?I'm really struggling to understand why everyone is fixated on Knowshon MorenoPerhaps because he has produced against top flight competition in the SEC(unlike Brown, Jennings) isn't slow and small(McCoy)?
Perhaps because he is the IDEAL fit because of the fact that he's a remarkably talented, productive player at one of the biggest positions of need on the team?
Booker showed he could not get on the field and was a waste , Westy while a tremendous player is often nicked up. Moreno could spell him and offer an interesting package with both in the game RB MUST be picked within the first 2 rds. if Moreno is not there I'd be ok with Brown or McCoy in the 2nd
Jason Wood
Zoo York
Just out of curiosity, why isn't anyone talking about Beanie Wells? In Sigmund, Cecil and Matt's mock on the Audible last night, Wells was the Eagles pick. Would that bother you and, if so, why?
Mighty Mice
Footballguy
Not one bit. I love how they have gotten younger at the tackle positions and added a FB to the offense. Overall, the offense looks great and should reap the benefits of these upgrades. But what happens if (when) Westbrook is dinged? Or tired? We gotten thinner at RB with the departure of Buckhalter. IMO, HB to keep Westbrook fresh and be a stop gap is the biggest need on the offensive side, followed by TE. Taking strong action to address the RB slot - Moreno, McCoy, Brown, Wells...whoever they like. But somebody, and not in the third. Get a top-rate talent if possible and bring him in the fold. They know better than I who fits their system and the likelihood of if that player will fall to the second or not. Wells would be welcome.
E-A-G-L-E-S
Footballguy
wouldn't bother me at all. Not sure fat andy would fully use his talents b/c he wants to pass 70% of the time and Wells didn have much work in the passing game at OSU They just need some talent at the RB position
Jeff Pasquino
Footballguy
I wouldn't be too much of a fan of this.Wells is the best RBBC option as a complimentary player to Westy.Moreno is the best option as a drop-in replacement for Westy.It's all a matter of how the team is planning not just for 2009 but also for the future. Having a drop-in for Westy (and by no means am I saying Moreno = Westy, that's way too strong - his skillset matches Westy's style) allows for them not to mess with how they run their offense. Wells would be the power back to compliment Westy, but ultimately he's not as much of a RB to lead the offense in a similar fashion down the line.
Jeff Pasquino
Footballguy
One more thing.... it isn't often that a team drafting in the bottom third of the draft can take the top RB in a draft class, regardless of how deep a class is perceived.
JetMaxx
Footballguy
As per DH earlier in this thread, Wells isn't a consideration. I watched his pro day highlights and to see him struggling to catch the ball told me right then that he was off the Eagles' radar. Sure enough DH confirmed it.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
All due respect to DH, I don't have any reason to believe Wells is off the board. He's not a character risk and is the consensus top RB prospect. But that wasn't the point of the query.As to Jeff's point, the fact every mock has us taking Moreno speaks to that point. This is an RB class lacking in an elite prospect. To my mind that's not the year the Eagles decide to spend a high pick on one. I would be just as happy with Donald Brown or McCoy in the 2nd if that's the direction we went, I just hope other Eagles fans are open minded about that possibility.
JetMaxx
Footballguy
I'm not saying that he is. But there's a reason why good RB's tend to slide in the draft. IMO it was a blessing in disguise when he ran a 4.6. Best thing that could have happened. He runs a 4.4 and he's gone top 10. I'm not saying he's in this class, but the very reason Emmitt Smith and Jerry Rice were picked in the late teens is because they timed poorly. With his skill set, he very well could be a special player despite the lackluster 40 time.Sounds great, except that we pick at 1.21. This isn't a guy considered to be an elite, can't miss prospect. If he were, he wouldn't be projected to be available at 1.21 like his is in every mock.Perhaps because he's a high character, team leader type of player who has unique skills as a ball carrier, is an excellent blocker and fine receiver out of the backfield?I'm really struggling to understand why everyone is fixated on Knowshon Moreno
Perhaps because he is the IDEAL fit because of the fact that he's a remarkably talented, productive player at one of the biggest positions of need on the team?
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Jason Wood
Zoo York
We don't disagree. I just cringe when I see a near universal accord about who our pick will/should be when we pick at 1.21. Basic statistical probability assures us that we have almost no chance of getting one particular guy with 20 unknown variables in front of us. Again, I'm FINE with Moreno is he's the pick. Heck, I'll even get one of my sons a Moreno jersey to replace the B-Dawk jersey. BUT, what I'm saying is I have faith in the Eagles scouting process and it wouldn't surprise me AT ALL to see them take another player even if Moreno is on the board. And that shouldn't upset fans.I'm not saying that he is. But there is reason why good RB's tend to slide in the draft. IMO it was a blessing in disguise when he ran a 4.6. Best thing that could have happened. He runs a 4.4 and he's gone top 10. I'm not saying he's in this class, but the very reason Emmitt Smith and Jerry Rice were picked in the late teens is because they timed poorly. With his skill set, he very well could be a special player despite the lackluster 40 time.Sounds great, except that we pick at 1.21. This isn't a guy considered to be an elite, can't miss prospect. If he were, he wouldn't be projected to be available at 1.21 like his is in every mock.Perhaps because he's a high character, team leader type of player who has unique skills as a ball carrier, is an excellent blocker and fine receiver out of the backfield?I'm really struggling to understand why everyone is fixated on Knowshon Moreno
Perhaps because he is the IDEAL fit because of the fact that he's a remarkably talented, productive player at one of the biggest positions of need on the team?
JetMaxx
Footballguy
I get what you are saying but I honestly don't have much faith in their ability to draft skill position players. Their track record in drafting RBs, WRs, and TEs is rather poor.BUT, what I'm saying is I have faith in the Eagles scouting process and it wouldn't surprise me AT ALL to see them take another player even if Moreno is on the board. And that shouldn't upset fans.I'm not saying that he is. But there is reason why good RB's tend to slide in the draft. IMO it was a blessing in disguise when he ran a 4.6. Best thing that could have happened. He runs a 4.4 and he's gone top 10. I'm not saying he's in this class, but the very reason Emmitt Smith and Jerry Rice were picked in the late teens is because they timed poorly. With his skill set, he very well could be a special player despite the lackluster 40 time.Sounds great, except that we pick at 1.21. This isn't a guy considered to be an elite, can't miss prospect. If he were, he wouldn't be projected to be available at 1.21 like his is in every mock.Perhaps because he's a high character, team leader type of player who has unique skills as a ball carrier, is an excellent blocker and fine receiver out of the backfield?I'm really struggling to understand why everyone is fixated on Knowshon Moreno
Perhaps because he is the IDEAL fit because of the fact that he's a remarkably talented, productive player at one of the biggest positions of need on the team?
Domination
Footballguy
I would like to throw this out there and see if maybe it sticks to the wall. Supposedly the Giants are looking to move up in the draft, in order to get DHB. Seeing as how I hate the chart, but have no other format to use, here it is.....
Eagles give pick 1.21 (800) & 5.21 (31.8) = 831.8
Giants give picks 1.29 (640) & 3.17 (185) = 825
Eagles turn around and send 1.29 & 3.21 to ARZ for Boldin. This would enable us to move up in the draft, while still getting the player that is wanted. If we could get Boldin for less than this, that would only be a plus. Also, could turn these picks around and ship them to Cleveland for BE.
Eagles give pick 1.21 (800) & 5.21 (31.8) = 831.8
Giants give picks 1.29 (640) & 3.17 (185) = 825
Eagles turn around and send 1.29 & 3.21 to ARZ for Boldin. This would enable us to move up in the draft, while still getting the player that is wanted. If we could get Boldin for less than this, that would only be a plus. Also, could turn these picks around and ship them to Cleveland for BE.
I'm very open to it. I'd still prefer Moreno in the first because I see him as a better fit with a bigger impact THIS YEAR, but I would not be upset at all if they waited until the second for another top prospect (Brown?) I don't want McCoy though.I WOULD be upset if I saw them not take a RB on day one, since it's the only significant need on the roster.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
Well see I hear that a lot and yet...they got the ultimate skill position pick, their franchise QB, right...and did that in a year when EVERYONE wanted them to take Ricky Williams. They also got DeSean Jackson right, and Westbrook right [in the 3rd round!]. But even if we accept your point at face value, to me that's the reason they wouldn't want to take an RB in the 1st. Better to whiff on a 2nd or 3rd round skill player then commit 1st round money to one.
Buddy Ball 2K3
Footballguy
Because the Eagles need a dynamic back. Wells can not go play in the slot or get the respect of the defense in the passing game. Once again... the Eagles offense (believe it or not) is run through their RB. Wells while a good runner is not the guy that can fill the "Westbrook" role. Now if the Eagles are taking the offense in a new direction, I would be happy to have a RB like Wells. But until we know that will happen I believe we need a back like McCoy or Moreno.
Deranged Hermit
Not cool & Pissed
To be clear, my source never said 'we're not even looking at Wells'. Never once. I just haven't mentioned him because, well, my buddy never did......
Buddy Ball 2K3
Footballguy
Glad to see you are up and ready for work.
One quick question that I think has been really over looked thus far. Has your friend told you anything about what their plans for McNabb?
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Deranged Hermit
Not cool & Pissed
Kolb stinking up the joint really threw a kink into their QB plans as far as I can tell. You really have no idea how close it was to McNabb never starting another game last year. Had the lost on Thanksgiving night, last year's season would have been MUCH different.Glad to see you are up and ready for work.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
I kind of figured DH, and didn't remember you saying that about Wells. Glad I wasn't mistaken.
And thank goodness Kolb did stink up the joint and didn't head fake us with a great one half of football that would have sent us deeply into rebuilding mode instead of positioning us for another few years of title contention.Kolb stinking up the joint really threw a kink into their QB plans as far as I can tell. You really have no idea how close it was to McNabb never starting another game last year. Had the lost on Thanksgiving night, last year's season would have been MUCH different.Glad to see you are up and ready for work.One quick question that I think has been really over looked thus far. Has your friend told you anything about what their plans for McNabb?
Buddy Ball 2K3
Footballguy
Then I would assume theres a chance they could draft a QB over the weekend?And thank goodness Kolb did stink up the joint and didn't head fake us with a great one half of football that would have sent us deeply into rebuilding mode instead of positioning us for another few years of title contention.Kolb stinking up the joint really threw a kink into their QB plans as far as I can tell. You really have no idea how close it was to McNabb never starting another game last year. Had the lost on Thanksgiving night, last year's season would have been MUCH different.Glad to see you are up and ready for work.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
I think the Eagles will always consider every position at a certain point, so it wouldn't shock me. We have so many 5th round picks, I could see them taking a developmental QB with one of them. Now if they used a 1st/2nd/3rd rounder on a QB?
We might have riots at Independence Hall.
JetMaxx
Footballguy
Did I draw the wrong conclusion?
Deranged Hermit
Not cool & Pissed
I honestly didn't even remember the conversation. We talk about a lot of players but, even after reading this, I still don't remember this one. Sucks getting old.JetMaxx said:Did I draw the wrong conclusion?
I'm okay with Moreno or Wells, but I would rather have Moreno as he seems to be a better fit for the Eagles system.To be fair, I'd like the world.......Boldin (or Edwards) and a top RB from this '09 class. Don't know if the Eagles can pull it off but I'd be drinking & dancing all night if they could. I'm already thinking the Eagles are a top contender for the NFC crown.....this draft and any moves they make today and tomorrow will determine if I think they can win the Super Bowl.Jason Wood said:
Ash
Footballguy
I'm not fixated on him as such, I don't watch any college football. I have no idea if he's better than Wells, McCoy or Brown. I just think the total lack of depth behind Westbrook and his failing durability (I believe the late season stretch where we ran him a lot broke him for the playoffs) means that they need to adress the RB position as the highest priority. I don't like drafting for need, but don't think we have much choice. This offense (and the personnel on it) needs a dual threat back to make it work. If McNabb has to drop back and throw to these WRs 50 times a game because Westbrook is injured and Booker gets 3 ypc it won't be pretty.Game Time said:
