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*** Official 2012-13 Hot Stove Thread (4 Viewers)

'Eephus said:
'MAC_32 said:
'scoobus said:
Can someone who knows about him talk about Gregorius a little bit. His minor league numbers certainly don't pop off the page, nor does his speed. He must project as a plus fielder at SS then?
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Yes, plus fielder, hope would be to make his bat passable in the bottom of the order.
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Seems like a decent enough bridge from Asdrubal/Aviles to Lindor/Wolters.This wasn't a good offense with Choo and Pronk. Reynolds and Stubbs don't help it much.
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No, it won't, but this team showed they can't get over the hump last year, needs to be shaken up. Reynolds is a huge upgrade over Pronk, games played and bats right handed. Obviously Stubbs is not relative to Choo. If Asdrubal goes to AZ for an arm I have to think Swisher is coming to Cleveland. Use $ saved from unloading Asdrubal and Choo, his contract will expire before Kipnis and whichever arm is brought over from AZ are due extensions.KipnisBrantleySwisherReynoldsSantanaStubbsChisenhallAvilesWILDCARDNot a bad lineup, use DH to give Santana a 'day off,' also Swish, Reynolds too (rotate Swish to 1B, scrub to RF).MastersonArizona armUbaldo - wildcardMcAllisterWho knowsPassable rotation if the AZ arms translates quickly, McAllister progresses, Masterson is somewhere between 2010 and 2011, and Ubaldo removes his head from his ###. Could also trade a bullpen piece or two.
 
'MAC_32 said:
'Eephus said:
'MAC_32 said:
'scoobus said:
Can someone who knows about him talk about Gregorius a little bit. His minor league numbers certainly don't pop off the page, nor does his speed. He must project as a plus fielder at SS then?
Click to expand...
Yes, plus fielder, hope would be to make his bat passable in the bottom of the order.
Click to expand...
Seems like a decent enough bridge from Asdrubal/Aviles to Lindor/Wolters.This wasn't a good offense with Choo and Pronk. Reynolds and Stubbs don't help it much.
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No, it won't, but this team showed they can't get over the hump last year, needs to be shaken up. Reynolds is a huge upgrade over Pronk, games played and bats right handed. Obviously Stubbs is not relative to Choo. If Asdrubal goes to AZ for an arm I have to think Swisher is coming to Cleveland. Use $ saved from unloading Asdrubal and Choo, his contract will expire before Kipnis and whichever arm is brought over from AZ are due extensions.Kipnis

Brantley

Swisher

Reynolds

Santana

Stubbs

Chisenhall

Aviles

WILDCARD

Not a bad lineup, use DH to give Santana a 'day off,' also Swish, Reynolds too (rotate Swish to 1B, scrub to RF).

Masterson

Arizona arm

Ubaldo - wildcard

McAllister

Who knows

Passable rotation if the AZ arms translates quickly, McAllister progresses, Masterson is somewhere between 2010 and 2011, and Ubaldo removes his head from his ###. Could also trade a bullpen piece or two.
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It's not a good lineup, and that's if they get Swisher.Apparently Choo isn't as highly regarded as I thought, I would've thought he would fetch way more than Drew freaking Stubbs (although I don't know the quality of pitcher from AZ yet).

 
I would assume it's one of their higher end young starters, probably gave them a list and said pick one.

And 'good' is relative, it's better than last year's - and I actually screwed up, Asdrubal would still be in that lineup so put him 2nd, slide Brantley down to 6th and the rest follow suit. This lineup isn't good this year unless Brantley, Santana, and Chis step up and bad Stubbs and Reynolds don't rear their ugly heads all season. It gives them a chance whereas if they stayed put they're wasting the season.

 
'MAC_32 said:
I would assume it's one of their higher end young starters, probably gave them a list and said pick one.And 'good' is relative, it's better than last year's - and I actually screwed up, Asdrubal would still be in that lineup so put him 2nd, slide Brantley down to 6th and the rest follow suit. This lineup isn't good this year unless Brantley, Santana, and Chis step up and bad Stubbs and Reynolds don't rear their ugly heads all season. It gives them a chance whereas if they stayed put they're wasting the season.
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With just Gregorius going to Arizona, my guess it would have to be Patrick Corbin. Bauer or Skaggs would require more in return.
 
Local media person - @LindseyBaseball

Nothing official from Indians yet. Reports on entire deal coming in slowly

Hearing Choo, Donald, Sipp, and Anderson traded in 3 team deal w AZ and CIN. CIN gets Choo. Tribe receives Stubbs and Bauer from AZ

 
@JeffPassan

Indians get: Bauer, Stubbs, Shaw, Albers. D-backs get: Gregorius, Sipp, Lars Anderson. Reds get: Choo, Donald. Whoa.

 
Please make this happen

Jayson Stark of ESPN.com reports that the Phillies are "kicking around" a potential trade for Cubs outfielder Alfonso Soriano but it's a "long shot" to happen.Stark says the Phillies were "initially uninterested" when the Cubs first approached them about Soriano, but they're at least now giving it some thought. CBS Sports' Jon Heyman says one scenario would involve Domonic Brown heading to the Cubs straight up for Soriano, which would be a pretty terrible deal for the Phillies even if Chicago picked up a big chunk of Soriano's remaining salary.
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Christmas comes early for us Reds fans!

While it's only for 1 year (so far), getting Choo for Stubbs & Gregorius is nothing short of a huge win for the Reds.

scoobus, Didi is as good as it gets in the field. If his bat materializes at all, that's a coup for you guys. Check out Redszone.com in the minor league forum for more info on him.

 
Dbacks just told the royals THAT'S HOW YOU TRADE A TOP PROSPECT FOR NOTHING!

honestly, I don't think Bauer will be anything good. Dude has less control than a teenaged boy at a strip club, his fastball was nothing special, and hes a bit of a loco.

 
'shadyridr said:
Did the dbacks prefer didi over asdrubal?
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Haven't read anything indicating that on the Cleveland end. Yet, anyway. Cleveland wants to move Asdrubal, but wants a good prospect with lots of years of control in return. Guessing they said give us Skaggs too and we'll add Asdrubal and AZ asked Cincy about Didi instead.
 
'shadyridr said:
Dbacks just told the royals THAT'S HOW YOU TRADE A TOP PROSPECT FOR NOTHING!honestly, I don't think Bauer will be anything good. Dude has less control than a teenaged boy at a strip club, his fastball was nothing special, and hes a bit of a loco.
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A bit? Dude may grow up with time but based off what he's shown thus far, he's a spoiled brat and one of the crazier players in baseball. I'd love to dump him were I a Diamondbacks fan. Just not sure if this is the best value for the kid.
 
'Dr. Awesome said:
'shadyridr said:
Dbacks just told the royals THAT'S HOW YOU TRADE A TOP PROSPECT FOR NOTHING!honestly, I don't think Bauer will be anything good. Dude has less control than a teenaged boy at a strip club, his fastball was nothing special, and hes a bit of a loco.
Click to expand...
A bit? Dude may grow up with time but based off what he's shown thus far, he's a spoiled brat and one of the crazier players in baseball. I'd love to dump him were I a Diamondbacks fan. Just not sure if this is the best value for the kid.
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Bauer is 21 and is averaging 11.5 SO/9 as a minor leaguer. He wouldn't be the first successful pitcher to be a head case. If you're the Indians, you have to make the deal. One year of Choo, a utilityman, a LOOGY and a AAAA bat is like trading four nickels for a $1 scratcher.
 
I'm with Eeph. Good deal for the Tribe. Great return on a guy who had one year left and is a mess in the field.

Arizona gave up way, way, way too early on Bauer. I'm not sure if this is worse than the Royals trade, but it's way up there.

Tribe = win

Reds = push-ish

Snakes = lose

 
Skip Schumaker to the Dodgers for a minor leaguer.

He's a useful player. Like the move but hate the Dodgers.

 
'scoobus said:
Can someone who knows about him talk about Gregorius a little bit. His minor league numbers certainly don't pop off the page, nor does his speed. He must project as a plus fielder at SS then?
Click to expand...
Freak athlete first and foremost, which many believe gives him some additional upside to improve in all areas. Also, when he's been up or even in ST it's clear his glove is already a plus fielder. He was roadblocked by Cozart though and the reds were running out of options to improve leadoff. For the Reds, I like it well enough. I think Ludwick will get plenty of days off on the road where Heisey can play center. At home when the big 3 are all playing, you're at least getting great RF defense to help out whichever of Bruce/Choo is in center. I might have preferred if the Reds had just traded Didi for Bauer themselves, but they weren't happy at leadoff and they're in obvious win-now mode. Hamilton replaces Choo in 14.
 
'Dr. Awesome said:
'shadyridr said:
Dbacks just told the royals THAT'S HOW YOU TRADE A TOP PROSPECT FOR NOTHING!honestly, I don't think Bauer will be anything good. Dude has less control than a teenaged boy at a strip club, his fastball was nothing special, and hes a bit of a loco.
Click to expand...
A bit? Dude may grow up with time but based off what he's shown thus far, he's a spoiled brat and one of the crazier players in baseball. I'd love to dump him were I a Diamondbacks fan. Just not sure if this is the best value for the kid.
Click to expand...
Bauer does seem high maintenance. Maybe there is a good reason why Arizona dealt him so "easily".
 
'MAC_32 said:
'shadyridr said:
Did the dbacks prefer didi over asdrubal?
Click to expand...
Haven't read anything indicating that on the Cleveland end. Yet, anyway. Cleveland wants to move Asdrubal, but wants a good prospect with lots of years of control in return. Guessing they said give us Skaggs too and we'll add Asdrubal and AZ asked Cincy about Didi instead.
Click to expand...
It's also possible the ball was in AZ's court and they chose this deal. I've heard the Indians would have moved Choo and Asdrubal for Bauer, Skaggs and Didi.Regardless, great trade for the Indians. There was ZERO chance Choo was returning in 2014. I have to believe there is no possible way they could have received more in return...and certainly not if they waited until the deadline. Even if Bauer ends up flaming out, you still have to say this was the right move. First offseason in a while where I think the Indians have made moves that make sense. Finally have brought in some right handed power in a park where you need it. Strikeouts are coming with it, but it's a needed change. They don't lose much otherwise IMO. Choo is certainly better than Stubbs, but I think we can only say that as a hitter. If they bring in Swisher, it will make this look even better. They shipped out Sipp, but brought in Shaw and Albers who should be fine bullpen arms. This signals the Tribe is not done yet, as we know they are itching to deal Perez and slide Pestano to closer. And then there is Asdrubal...the question seems to be...what really is his trade value?
 
I'll also say the Reds are a winner too. They get the best current player in the deal. Their hitting gets even better. Downside is Choo is probably a rental, but they will get draft pick compensation (I believe) and have what most think is his replacement already in house. Big win for Reds fans. :thumbup:

 
'oso diablo said:
scuttlebutt is that Bruce would move to CF, not Choo
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That would be news to me, but I would support that. Bruce is a great RF and I believe Choo is just a guy with a great arm. I think him in right makes more sense. Bruce could go from a plus RF to a negative CF, but that's a calculated decision to trade Stubbs' defense for a real leadoff hitter.We'll see though. Walt's quotes immediately after the deal seemed to indicate plan A was Choo in Center.
 
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'Brady Marino said:
'Eephus said:
Skip Schumaker to the Dodgers for a minor leaguer.He's a useful player. Like the move but hate the Dodgers.
Click to expand...
He got Kozma'd out of a job.
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I have no understanding of the Descalso lovefest going on within the organization. Skip was the best option at 2B by a pretty wide margin against RHP. Kozma could play there against LHP. Really, really dislike this deal and I don't even know who the Cards got in return.
 
We may be reaching the point where some enterprising contender with an OF vacancy can get Bourn for a short-term deal on the cheap. I fear that team may be the Phillies. Any other decent candidates left? Could even move him or their current CF to a corner spot to set up a tremendous OF defense.

 
'RnR said:
'Brady Marino said:
'Eephus said:
Skip Schumaker to the Dodgers for a minor leaguer.He's a useful player. Like the move but hate the Dodgers.
Click to expand...
He got Kozma'd out of a job.
Click to expand...
I have no understanding of the Descalso lovefest going on within the organization. Skip was the best option at 2B by a pretty wide margin against RHP. Kozma could play there against LHP. Really, really dislike this deal and I don't even know who the Cards got in return.
Click to expand...
Skip was pretty one-dimensional. Good average, but no power and meh plate discipline. Descalso is a better fielder, can play SS if absolutely necessary, and has less YOS than Skip. Sure, Skip can play all three OF positions somewhat competently, but again, no power. Plus, Descalso has shown flashes of being better than meh.That's my guess as to why the Cards prefer Descalso over Skip. :shrug:
 
'TobiasFunke said:
We may be reaching the point where some enterprising contender with an OF vacancy can get Bourn for a short-term deal on the cheap. I fear that team may be the Phillies. Any other decent candidates left? Could even move him or their current CF to a corner spot to set up a tremendous OF defense.
Click to expand...
Rangers?
 
'Brady Marino said:
'RnR said:
'Brady Marino said:
'Eephus said:
Skip Schumaker to the Dodgers for a minor leaguer.He's a useful player. Like the move but hate the Dodgers.
Click to expand...
He got Kozma'd out of a job.
Click to expand...
I have no understanding of the Descalso lovefest going on within the organization. Skip was the best option at 2B by a pretty wide margin against RHP. Kozma could play there against LHP. Really, really dislike this deal and I don't even know who the Cards got in return.
Click to expand...
Skip was pretty one-dimensional. Good average, but no power and meh plate discipline. Descalso is a better fielder, can play SS if absolutely necessary, and has less YOS than Skip. Sure, Skip can play all three OF positions somewhat competently, but again, no power. Plus, Descalso has shown flashes of being better than meh.That's my guess as to why the Cards prefer Descalso over Skip. :shrug:
Click to expand...
Descalso is developing into a plus player - I wasn't sold on him at first but he is becoming one of my favorite Cardinals.
 
'proninja said:
Wait, there are people who don't think this was awful for the Royals? Really?
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Yes I think it was AWFUL. Will Myers is a rare talent and Jake Odorizzi will be a quality 3-4 SP within two years with potential upside above that. Monty was below average and will likely become a situational lefty. Leonard is too ealry to tell. Myers is what makes this such a horrible deal. You get a very good 30 year pitcher in Shields that has thrown 600+ innings in the last three years (so I have fears he is a likely candidate for injury or significant regression) and Wade Davis is just another league average arm to go along with the remainder of the Royals staff. Myers is the key - dude can rake, he can fly, and has a cannon for an arm. He hit 37 bombs last year in high minors and has ridiculous bat speed that will translate well to the bigs given an opportunity. The Rays raped the Royals in this deal - and the Rays still have a solid starting staff minus Shields. I am convinced the Rays have made a deal with the devil.
 
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'oso diablo said:
'TobiasFunke said:
We may be reaching the point where some enterprising contender with an OF vacancy can get Bourn for a short-term deal on the cheap. I fear that team may be the Phillies. Any other decent candidates left? Could even move him or their current CF to a corner spot to set up a tremendous OF defense.
Click to expand...
Rangers?
Click to expand...
Yeah maybe. So strange that the market kind of collapsed around him and I guess Josh Hamilton. I assumed Bourn was a natural fit for the Phils until the Revere trade, still fearful that they'll sign Bourn or Hamilton to a corner OF spot.
 
'cheese said:
'oso diablo said:
scuttlebutt is that Bruce would move to CF, not Choo
Click to expand...
That would be news to me, but I would support that. Bruce is a great RF and I believe Choo is just a guy with a great arm. I think him in right makes more sense. Bruce could go from a plus RF to a negative CF, but that's a calculated decision to trade Stubbs' defense for a real leadoff hitter.We'll see though. Walt's quotes immediately after the deal seemed to indicate plan A was Choo in Center.
Click to expand...
should clarify that the Bruce-to-CF rumor comes from unnamed scouts, who postulated that the Reds would stick Choo back in RF once they saw him try CF
 
'oso diablo said:
'cheese said:
'oso diablo said:
scuttlebutt is that Bruce would move to CF, not Choo
Click to expand...
That would be news to me, but I would support that. Bruce is a great RF and I believe Choo is just a guy with a great arm. I think him in right makes more sense. Bruce could go from a plus RF to a negative CF, but that's a calculated decision to trade Stubbs' defense for a real leadoff hitter.We'll see though. Walt's quotes immediately after the deal seemed to indicate plan A was Choo in Center.
Click to expand...
should clarify that the Bruce-to-CF rumor comes from unnamed scouts, who postulated that the Reds would stick Choo back in RF once they saw him try CF
Click to expand...
Starting to think it will be a process to determine who fits better. Both get run at CF in spring training and if still undecided come beginning of the season start Bruce in CF in road games and Choo in home games. Try to figure it out asap, but if it takes until Memorial Day to sort it out so be it. Hopefully it doesn't cost them more than a game or two while they figure it out and the benefits derived from Choo at the top of the order more than cancel it out./
 
'oso diablo said:
'Eephus said:
'oso diablo said:
'RnR said:
Really, really dislike this deal and I don't even know who the Cards got in return.
Click to expand...
Jake Lemmerman - 5th rounder out of Duke, shortstop, played in AA last year at age 23, posting a 725 ops with no discernible plus skill (at least from the stat line).
Click to expand...
11.8 BB% is decent :shrug:
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that's true.i'm just not as enamored with BB rates when K rates are so high
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OK. How about his 2.5% HBP% is outstanding?
 
'Mr. Know-It-All said:
'Brady Marino said:
'RnR said:
'Brady Marino said:
'Eephus said:
Skip Schumaker to the Dodgers for a minor leaguer.He's a useful player. Like the move but hate the Dodgers.
Click to expand...
He got Kozma'd out of a job.
Click to expand...
I have no understanding of the Descalso lovefest going on within the organization. Skip was the best option at 2B by a pretty wide margin against RHP. Kozma could play there against LHP. Really, really dislike this deal and I don't even know who the Cards got in return.
Click to expand...
Skip was pretty one-dimensional. Good average, but no power and meh plate discipline. Descalso is a better fielder, can play SS if absolutely necessary, and has less YOS than Skip. Sure, Skip can play all three OF positions somewhat competently, but again, no power. Plus, Descalso has shown flashes of being better than meh.That's my guess as to why the Cards prefer Descalso over Skip. :shrug:
Click to expand...
Descalso is developing into a plus player - I wasn't sold on him at first but he is becoming one of my favorite Cardinals.
Click to expand...
You guys are drinking the kool-aid too. The man barely crossed the .600 threshold in OPS last season. He's not a plus player in any sense of the word. He's "gritty" and he plays any infield position adequately (not well), so Cards fans like him. I get it. He's not an everyday player though. Kolten Wong better get here fast.I'll take Skip. Sorry.
 
'MAC_32 said:
'oso diablo said:
'cheese said:
'oso diablo said:
scuttlebutt is that Bruce would move to CF, not Choo
Click to expand...
That would be news to me, but I would support that. Bruce is a great RF and I believe Choo is just a guy with a great arm. I think him in right makes more sense. Bruce could go from a plus RF to a negative CF, but that's a calculated decision to trade Stubbs' defense for a real leadoff hitter.We'll see though. Walt's quotes immediately after the deal seemed to indicate plan A was Choo in Center.
Click to expand...
should clarify that the Bruce-to-CF rumor comes from unnamed scouts, who postulated that the Reds would stick Choo back in RF once they saw him try CF
Click to expand...
Starting to think it will be a process to determine who fits better. Both get run at CF in spring training and if still undecided come beginning of the season start Bruce in CF in road games and Choo in home games. Try to figure it out asap, but if it takes until Memorial Day to sort it out so be it. Hopefully it doesn't cost them more than a game or two while they figure it out and the benefits derived from Choo at the top of the order more than cancel it out./
Click to expand...
I agree and on the bolded... I really don't think it matters. I hate to come across as arrogant about the season, but if a few regular season losses cost the Reds anything, something has gone horribly wrong. With the overall starting pitching and lineup they have, it would probably take Votto missing the season (knock on wood) or a complete implosion by Chapman for the playoffs to be in doubt. The only thing that really matters is figuring it all out to make it work by October so we don't crash in rd1 again.
 
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