Official 2013 Returnmen thread (4 Viewers)

[GregR]

This is a place for discussing everything about kick and punt returners.

Did you hear some breaking news or even just a tidbit in a local news segment that might not have been picked up nationally? Please post it, preferably with a link, or at least with what the source is.

Individual returners are now supported in Draft Dominator. Set your scoring on the same Setup screen as the other scoring parameters. If you don't see it there, make sure you have downloaded and installed the most current version.

Footballguys now has return yardage projections for individual players. Until they show up in the normal forecast section, they can be found up to date in this article: http://subscribers.footballguys.com/apps/article.php?article=returnerprojections

I believe the first place that preseason projections will be available is in the Draft GM mobile app. I'm trying to find out details on the timing of when they'll be rolled out to the other usual places, such as in the normal website projections pages. Will post as I know more.

Another spot with returner information are the text-based team page write-ups such as at http://subscribers.footballguys.com/2013/13teamreport-chi.php.

 

[koreansteve]

I'll start it off.

Pretty widely reported, but it looks like Randall Cobb's role in the GB offense will be expanded this year and it seems likely that he will be replaced as a returnman in 2013 (or at least have his role diminished). I believe McCarthy is leaving the decision about Cobb returning kicks/punts up to the other players, so I guess we'll see how that shakes out.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20130520/PKR01/305200441/Ross-Nixon-among-potential-options-replace-Cobb-return-game

Jeremy Ross and James Nixon are the front runners for the position. Rookie Johnathan Franklin has also entered the picture recently.

For those of us in return leagues, it certainly knocks Cobb down a bit in terms of ADP. Cobb had 1236 total return yds (punts and kickoffs) and 2 return TDs in 2011 and 1256 yds and 1 TD in 2012.

 

[KellysHeroes]

I believe I read that Harvin will be doing all the returns for Sea while also playing WR1.

As for Cobb taking a backseat, I don't think it'll be too smart to take him off completely. Giving him a reduced role would be better to keep him a little fresh

 

[koreansteve]

I believe I read that Harvin will be doing all the returns for Sea while also playing WR1.

As for Cobb taking a backseat, I don't think it'll be too smart to take him off completely. Giving him a reduced role would be better to keep him a little fresh

This article is from March, but perhaps sheds a bit of light on Carroll's thinking and Seattle's game plan...

http://www.seahawks.com/news/articles/article-1/Percy-Harvin-one-more-versatile-piece-to-the-Seahawks-puzzle/e1989808-a0ff-42ca-a197-906c6cdb4a1d

Pete Carroll Quote - “Percy played in the backfield in college. He played in the backfield for the Vikings. … That’s a tremendous spread of talent that he brings to our club. He will get the ball in his hands a number of ways and he’s going to return kicks for us, too.”

The Seahawks are so enamored with Harvin’s diverse skills that they released Leon Washington on Tuesday, even though he had led the conference in kickoff return average last season and was voted the kick returner on the NFC Pro Bowl squad.

Harvin was hoping he’d be able to continue returning kickoffs, but wasn’t sure that would be the case because of Washington’s presence and the lucrative contract he just signed with the Seahawks.

“I definitely was a little worried,” Harvin said. “But one of the questions coach Carroll asked was, ‘Do you mind doing kick return?’ I looked at him like, ‘Uh? You’ve got to be kidding me.’ ”

In fact, Harvin likes returning kickoffs so much that when asked which element of his game he would chose if given one last play, he opted for the return.

 

[Adam Harstad]

I'll start it off.

Pretty widely reported, but it looks like Randall Cobb's role in the GB offense will be expanded this year and it seems likely that he will be replaced as a returnman in 2013 (or at least have his role diminished). I believe McCarthy is leaving the decision about Cobb returning kicks/punts up to the other players, so I guess we'll see how that shakes out.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20130520/PKR01/305200441/Ross-Nixon-among-potential-options-replace-Cobb-return-game

Jeremy Ross and James Nixon are the front runners for the position. Rookie Johnathan Franklin has also entered the picture recently.

For those of us in return leagues, it certainly knocks Cobb down a bit in terms of ADP. Cobb had 1236 total return yds (punts and kickoffs) and 2 return TDs in 2011 and 1256 yds and 1 TD in 2012.

We'll definitely be watching Green Bay's return situation very closely this offseason, precisely because Cobb is one of the few players involved enough on offense for his returns to really move him up the rankings even in the stingiest of return leagues. I believe that when teams talk about reducing a player's return role, they've historically tended to remove kickoff duties before punt duties (witness Antonio Brown in Pittsburgh), so if I'm making wild and wholly unsubstantiated guesses, I'd guess that Cobb will handle punts for Green Bay and someone else will handle kickoffs. Until we get more specifics, though, we've currently got Cobb slated to handle about half of Green Bay's punts and kickoffs, with Ross and Franklin helping pick up the slack on the rest. Nixon'll definitely be a guy to keep an eye on, too, if he makes Green Bay's 53-man roster. We appreciate the updates from Green Bay homers, because like I said, this is one of the most important battles for return leaguers.

 

[Adam Harstad]

I believe I read that Harvin will be doing all the returns for Sea while also playing WR1.

As for Cobb taking a backseat, I don't think it'll be too smart to take him off completely. Giving him a reduced role would be better to keep him a little fresh

This article is from March, but perhaps sheds a bit of light on Carroll's thinking and Seattle's game plan...

http://www.seahawks.com/news/articles/article-1/Percy-Harvin-one-more-versatile-piece-to-the-Seahawks-puzzle/e1989808-a0ff-42ca-a197-906c6cdb4a1d

Pete Carroll Quote - “Percy played in the backfield in college. He played in the backfield for the Vikings. … That’s a tremendous spread of talent that he brings to our club. He will get the ball in his hands a number of ways and he’s going to return kicks for us, too.”

The Seahawks are so enamored with Harvin’s diverse skills that they released Leon Washington on Tuesday, even though he had led the conference in kickoff return average last season and was voted the kick returner on the NFC Pro Bowl squad.

Harvin was hoping he’d be able to continue returning kickoffs, but wasn’t sure that would be the case because of Washington’s presence and the lucrative contract he just signed with the Seahawks.

“I definitely was a little worried,” Harvin said. “But one of the questions coach Carroll asked was, ‘Do you mind doing kick return?’ I looked at him like, ‘Uh? You’ve got to be kidding me.’ ”

In fact, Harvin likes returning kickoffs so much that when asked which element of his game he would chose if given one last play, he opted for the return.

Great find on that article. We expect Harvin to have a big impact on kickoffs in Seattle, especially because there's really no one else on the entire roster with any serious kickoff return experience (Leon has certainly eaten up most of the opportunities over the last three years). He's slated for about 800 kick return yards in our latest projections, and there's potential for him to go up over 1,000 if the season approaches and the team continues to show little interest in bringing in anyone else to ease his load. Really, the biggest thing holding him back is that Seattle's defense is so good, they're not going to be giving up a lot of scores.

 

[KrazyKyle]

I think I remember reading somewhere that the AZ Cardinals were looking to use The Honey Badger and Javier Arenas in the return game. I wasn't sure if they meant strictly kick returns to replace The Hyphen. Or if they planned on still using P.peterson on punt returns. Hopefully they keep Patrick back for punts as we've seen, he's a game breaker! I suppose training camp will tell the story soon. Either way, the combo of these 3, mainly 2, could really produce a lot of yards.

 

[GregR]

I think I remember reading somewhere that the AZ Cardinals were looking to use The Honey Badger and Javier Arenas in the return game. I wasn't sure if they meant strictly kick returns to replace The Hyphen. Or if they planned on still using P.peterson on punt returns. Hopefully they keep Patrick back for punts as we've seen, he's a game breaker! I suppose training camp will tell the story soon. Either way, the combo of these 3, mainly 2, could really produce a lot of yards.

That's our take too. We currently have the three as an even split on punt returns based on all three being such quality options that they could end up a split or any of the three could emerge as the primary returner. As we see more closer to the season hopefully we can better predict whether it's going to be a committee or whether one or two of them will emerge as the primaries.

 

[Ruffrodys05]

This thread is awesome....I will be returning to it regularly. Let's hope the information keeps flowing.

I don't really play in any return leagues, but my own league rewards points for RB or WR fantasy starters who happen to return a kick for a TD. It absolutely has an effect on where these players are drafted. I take a specific players potential for a return TD or two into consideration when deciding between a few otherwise equally rated players. I can also absolutely count on my league mates thinking the same way, and that can play into my favor too.

 

[Adam Harstad]

This thread is awesome....I will be returning to it regularly. Let's hope the information keeps flowing.

I don't really play in any return leagues, but my own league rewards points for RB or WR fantasy starters who happen to return a kick for a TD. It absolutely has an effect on where these players are drafted. I take a specific players potential for a return TD or two into consideration when deciding between a few otherwise equally rated players. I can also absolutely count on my league mates thinking the same way, and that can play into my favor too.

Hey Rody, glad to have you. If you're specifically looking for players who could score TDs, here's my short list of the NFL's "elite returners": Patrick Peterson, Jacoby Jones, Leodis McKelvin, Brad Smith, Ted Ginn Jr., Devin Hester, Adam Jones, Trindon Holiday, Leon Washington, David Wilson, Josh Cribbs, Desean Jackson, and Percy Harvin. Those are the guys who I think are the most likely to take it to the house on any given play. Of course, some of those guys (Desean, Jones, maybe Wilson and Peterson) won't get as many opportunities as others (McKelvin, Cribbs, Washington, Holiday, maybe Harvin), and projected workload always plays a role... but if you want a list of the guys who are most likely to completely change the complexion of a game in a single play, that's my short list. A couple of other guys (Arenas, Cobb) aren't far behind, either.

In our most recent projections, Devin Hester, Jacoby Jones, Leon Washington, Trindon Holiday, Leodis McKelvin, and Josh Cribbs are the top targets in TD-only leagues.

 

[meyerj31]

This thread is awesome....I will be returning to it regularly. Let's hope the information keeps flowing.

I don't really play in any return leagues, but my own league rewards points for RB or WR fantasy starters who happen to return a kick for a TD. It absolutely has an effect on where these players are drafted. I take a specific players potential for a return TD or two into consideration when deciding between a few otherwise equally rated players. I can also absolutely count on my league mates thinking the same way, and that can play into my favor too.

Hey Rody, glad to have you. If you're specifically looking for players who could score TDs, here's my short list of the NFL's "elite returners": Patrick Peterson, Jacoby Jones, Leodis McKelvin, Brad Smith, Ted Ginn Jr., Devin Hester, Adam Jones, Trindon Holiday, Leon Washington, David Wilson, Josh Cribbs, Desean Jackson, and Percy Harvin. Those are the guys who I think are the most likely to take it to the house on any given play. Of course, some of those guys (Desean, Jones, maybe Wilson and Peterson) won't get as many opportunities as others (McKelvin, Cribbs, Washington, Holiday, maybe Harvin), and projected workload always plays a role... but if you want a list of the guys who are most likely to completely change the complexion of a game in a single play, that's my short list. A couple of other guys (Arenas, Cobb) aren't far behind, either.

In our most recent projections, Devin Hester, Jacoby Jones, Leon Washington, Trindon Holiday, Leodis McKelvin, and Josh Cribbs are the top targets in TD-only leagues.

Great thread.

Do we have any confirmation on whether Desean is going to be returning kicks and/or punts for the Eagles this year? And if so, how many yards would you project? Like many others I am mostly interested in any offensive fantasty-relevant players that will regularly returning kicks.

I would also comment that I don't think David Wilson handles any returns this year, unless in a critical situation where they need a big play (similar to how they used Harvin in Minn recently). That affects his value quite a bit in return leagues since he had 1500 return yards last year.

Thanks.

 

[Buffaloes]

 

[Adam Harstad]

This thread is awesome....I will be returning to it regularly. Let's hope the information keeps flowing.

I don't really play in any return leagues, but my own league rewards points for RB or WR fantasy starters who happen to return a kick for a TD. It absolutely has an effect on where these players are drafted. I take a specific players potential for a return TD or two into consideration when deciding between a few otherwise equally rated players. I can also absolutely count on my league mates thinking the same way, and that can play into my favor too.

Hey Rody, glad to have you. If you're specifically looking for players who could score TDs, here's my short list of the NFL's "elite returners": Patrick Peterson, Jacoby Jones, Leodis McKelvin, Brad Smith, Ted Ginn Jr., Devin Hester, Adam Jones, Trindon Holiday, Leon Washington, David Wilson, Josh Cribbs, Desean Jackson, and Percy Harvin. Those are the guys who I think are the most likely to take it to the house on any given play. Of course, some of those guys (Desean, Jones, maybe Wilson and Peterson) won't get as many opportunities as others (McKelvin, Cribbs, Washington, Holiday, maybe Harvin), and projected workload always plays a role... but if you want a list of the guys who are most likely to completely change the complexion of a game in a single play, that's my short list. A couple of other guys (Arenas, Cobb) aren't far behind, either.

In our most recent projections, Devin Hester, Jacoby Jones, Leon Washington, Trindon Holiday, Leodis McKelvin, and Josh Cribbs are the top targets in TD-only leagues.

Great thread.

Do we have any confirmation on whether Desean is going to be returning kicks and/or punts for the Eagles this year? And if so, how many yards would you project? Like many others I am mostly interested in any offensive fantasty-relevant players that will regularly returning kicks.

I would also comment that I don't think David Wilson handles any returns this year, unless in a critical situation where they need a big play (similar to how they used Harvin in Minn recently). That affects his value quite a bit in return leagues since he had 1500 return yards last year.

Thanks.

We've got Desean, Damaris, and Maclin as possible punt returners for Philly, with Maclin the leader in the clubhouse. With a new coach in town, and as electric as Desean has been (I'm sure everyone remembers his walk-off TD return against the Giants in 2010), you can never rule him out entirely.

There's been some talk about New York reducing Wilson's returns, but I doubt they eliminate them entirely. Special Teams coordinator Tom Quinn has said he could do both, and Wilson has said he'd like to do both.

Harvin handled almost all of Minnesota's kick returns last year prior to his injury. Asiata got two in week one, Marcus Sherels got one in week 2, and Harvin handled all 16 other returned kickoffs prior to his injury in week 9. I think, as good as Wilson is on kickoffs, the most likely scenario is that New York brings in someone else to platoon (sort of like McKelvin and Brad Smith in Buffalo) rather than replacing him entirely.

 

[GregR]

Something that bears watching for the Bengals punt return situation... Adam Jones might be charged for an incident at a night club when he slapped a woman after she threw a beer bottle that hit him in the head.

If he were charged, it could bring a suspension given his past. I'm not sure he'll end up charged though, so probably best to wait and see for now.

Edit to add: Saw the video at http://www.espn1530.com/pages/hawkandfish.html?article=11374334. The "slapped a woman after she threw a beer bottle that hit him in the head" was his agent's version of what happened via PFT. Not quite sure I'd use those words to describe what happened, though she did instigate contact.

 

[meyerj31]

Has there been any indication that Tavon Austin will be returning kicks this year? Given his obvious playmaking ability, comparisons to first-year Harvin (whom had 1200 return yards his rookie year), and that the WR position is generally one of the harder positions to learn (so maybe he'll see more utility on special teams)....?

Can return yardage leagues pencil him in for 1000 yards? He jumps from around WR45 to WR30 in PPR/return leagues with that extra yardage, so predicting whether or not he returns is necessary to draft him.

 

[Adam Harstad]

Has there been any indication that Tavon Austin will be returning kicks this year? Given his obvious playmaking ability, comparisons to first-year Harvin (whom had 1200 return yards his rookie year), and that the WR position is generally one of the harder positions to learn (so maybe he'll see more utility on special teams)....?

Can return yardage leagues pencil him in for 1000 yards? He jumps from around WR45 to WR30 in PPR/return leagues with that extra yardage, so predicting whether or not he returns is necessary to draft him.

I haven't personally come across any news items saying he'll return kicks (homers, any help?), but you have to believe the Rams will use him there in some regard. We've personally got him projected for about 2/3s of the punt returns and 1/3 of the kick returns subject to finding specific reports on how the Rams intend to use him- we feel like this gives a reasonable but still conservative starting point so owners in return leagues can start the valuation process. It works out to about 300 kick return yards and 230 punt return yards. I do think he's probably more likely to see work on punt returns than kickoff returns, which hurts him in leagues that reward all return yardage equally (an elite punt returner might get 400 yards, while an elite kickoff returner can easily top 1200), but helps him in leagues that place more of an emphasis on punt return yards.

The nice thing about returners is that the returns serve as a very nice hedge. If the player dramatically underperforms his return projections, 90% of the time the reason is because the player dramatically outperformed his projected offensive or defensive role, and the extra offensive production really goes a long way towards offsetting the lost returns (in the stingier leagues, the offensive production even dwarfs the lost value from returns). Scoring system varies so much from league to league, but I'd feel pretty comfortable valuing Tavon Austin around WR30 (or higher) in most leagues, because either he gets huge return value, or else he's a huge part of the offense, but one way or another he's going to be getting points.

 

[Khy]

Has there been any indication that Tavon Austin will be returning kicks this year? Given his obvious playmaking ability, comparisons to first-year Harvin (whom had 1200 return yards his rookie year), and that the WR position is generally one of the harder positions to learn (so maybe he'll see more utility on special teams)....?

Can return yardage leagues pencil him in for 1000 yards? He jumps from around WR45 to WR30 in PPR/return leagues with that extra yardage, so predicting whether or not he returns is necessary to draft him.

I haven't personally come across any news items saying he'll return kicks (homers, any help?), but you have to believe the Rams will use him there in some regard. We've personally got him projected for about 2/3s of the punt returns and 1/3 of the kick returns subject to finding specific reports on how the Rams intend to use him- we feel like this gives a reasonable but still conservative starting point so owners in return leagues can start the valuation process. It works out to about 300 kick return yards and 230 punt return yards. I do think he's probably more likely to see work on punt returns than kickoff returns, which hurts him in leagues that reward all return yardage equally (an elite punt returner might get 400 yards, while an elite kickoff returner can easily top 1200), but helps him in leagues that place more of an emphasis on punt return yards.

The nice thing about returners is that the returns serve as a very nice hedge. If the player dramatically underperforms his return projections, 90% of the time the reason is because the player dramatically outperformed his projected offensive or defensive role, and the extra offensive production really goes a long way towards offsetting the lost returns (in the stingier leagues, the offensive production even dwarfs the lost value from returns). Scoring system varies so much from league to league, but I'd feel pretty comfortable valuing Tavon Austin around WR30 (or higher) in most leagues, because either he gets huge return value, or else he's a huge part of the offense, but one way or another he's going to be getting points.

They're definitely practicing him at PR from what I can tell from this latest report:

Tavon Austin's open-field juke, other notes

By Mike Sando

EARTH CITY, Mo. -- Rookie receiver Tavon Austin returned a punt toward the right sideline Tuesday and broke into the clear, leaving punter Johnny Hekker as the last line of defense.

Austin, the St. Louis Rams' quick and elusive first-round draft choice, staggered Hekker with a series of moves that unfolded as quickly as the eye could track.

The sequence was comical, and Hekker, left leaning awkwardly toward the sideline as Austin raced past him to the inside, knew he was going to hear it from teammates. There wasn't much Hekker could do at this point, so he dropped to the ground and clutched his hamstring in a lighthearted attempt to invite some sympathy.

It was one of the more memorable moments as the Rams opened their final week of organized team activities before breaking until training camp.

"Come on, that is hilarious," cornerback Cortland Finnegan said later. "[Austin] is the real deal, man."

Hekker, by the way, was considered arguably the most athletic punter in college football while at Oregon State. Not that it was going to matter against the 5-foot-8, 174-pound Austin, a player the Rams expect to create mismatches from the slot and elsewhere.

-----------------

Also this from a few weeks ago:

Coach Jeff Fisher confirmed he envisions a big role for Tavon Austin right away.

Fisher wants Austin to be a weapon out of the slot, take some handoffs out of the backfield and be a factor in the return game. "We're going to try to get the ball to him as often as we can, however we do that," Fisher said. The Rams clearly envision Austin influencing games in the same vein as Randall Cobb and Percy Harvin. They're loading up his plate. May 14 - 9:09 AM

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So while there isn't any reports saying "He's the PR/KR and he's our guy" they are clearly going to use him and I'd assume a decent amount in the return game. He's easily their most talented return guy and could definitely give the recovering offense a reasonable edge all season.

 

[Adam Harstad]

Has there been any indication that Tavon Austin will be returning kicks this year? Given his obvious playmaking ability, comparisons to first-year Harvin (whom had 1200 return yards his rookie year), and that the WR position is generally one of the harder positions to learn (so maybe he'll see more utility on special teams)....?

Can return yardage leagues pencil him in for 1000 yards? He jumps from around WR45 to WR30 in PPR/return leagues with that extra yardage, so predicting whether or not he returns is necessary to draft him.

I haven't personally come across any news items saying he'll return kicks (homers, any help?), but you have to believe the Rams will use him there in some regard. We've personally got him projected for about 2/3s of the punt returns and 1/3 of the kick returns subject to finding specific reports on how the Rams intend to use him- we feel like this gives a reasonable but still conservative starting point so owners in return leagues can start the valuation process. It works out to about 300 kick return yards and 230 punt return yards. I do think he's probably more likely to see work on punt returns than kickoff returns, which hurts him in leagues that reward all return yardage equally (an elite punt returner might get 400 yards, while an elite kickoff returner can easily top 1200), but helps him in leagues that place more of an emphasis on punt return yards.

The nice thing about returners is that the returns serve as a very nice hedge. If the player dramatically underperforms his return projections, 90% of the time the reason is because the player dramatically outperformed his projected offensive or defensive role, and the extra offensive production really goes a long way towards offsetting the lost returns (in the stingier leagues, the offensive production even dwarfs the lost value from returns). Scoring system varies so much from league to league, but I'd feel pretty comfortable valuing Tavon Austin around WR30 (or higher) in most leagues, because either he gets huge return value, or else he's a huge part of the offense, but one way or another he's going to be getting points.

They're definitely practicing him at PR from what I can tell from this latest report:

Tavon Austin's open-field juke, other notes

By Mike Sando

EARTH CITY, Mo. -- Rookie receiver Tavon Austin returned a punt toward the right sideline Tuesday and broke into the clear, leaving punter Johnny Hekker as the last line of defense.

Austin, the St. Louis Rams' quick and elusive first-round draft choice, staggered Hekker with a series of moves that unfolded as quickly as the eye could track.

The sequence was comical, and Hekker, left leaning awkwardly toward the sideline as Austin raced past him to the inside, knew he was going to hear it from teammates. There wasn't much Hekker could do at this point, so he dropped to the ground and clutched his hamstring in a lighthearted attempt to invite some sympathy.

It was one of the more memorable moments as the Rams opened their final week of organized team activities before breaking until training camp.

"Come on, that is hilarious," cornerback Cortland Finnegan said later. "[Austin] is the real deal, man."

Hekker, by the way, was considered arguably the most athletic punter in college football while at Oregon State. Not that it was going to matter against the 5-foot-8, 174-pound Austin, a player the Rams expect to create mismatches from the slot and elsewhere.

-----------------

Also this from a few weeks ago:

Coach Jeff Fisher confirmed he envisions a big role for Tavon Austin right away.

Fisher wants Austin to be a weapon out of the slot, take some handoffs out of the backfield and be a factor in the return game. "We're going to try to get the ball to him as often as we can, however we do that," Fisher said. The Rams clearly envision Austin influencing games in the same vein as Randall Cobb and Percy Harvin. They're loading up his plate. May 14 - 9:09 AM

-----------------

So while there isn't any reports saying "He's the PR/KR and he's our guy" they are clearly going to use him and I'd assume a decent amount in the return game. He's easily their most talented return guy and could definitely give the recovering offense a reasonable edge all season.

Thanks a lot for the links. I completely agree with your take- you don't draft Tavon Austin in the top 10 and then not use him on returns. It'd be like drafting Michael Vick with the #1 overall pick and trying to turn him into a pocket passer. You can't let your players not do what you drafted them to do because you're worried they might get hurt while doing it.

 

[GregR]

Tyrann Mathieu was asked in tweet about returning punts and he said it was Peterson's job and he just hoped to get a few returns too. A Bruce Arians quote about Peterson being the guy back there whenever he can be is also being reported as part of the story about the tweet, though worth noting that the Arians quote is from February, long before the NFL draft. Still, I'd have to say I have at least a little more confidence Peterson will continue as the primary starter, even with the understanding Mathieu might have just been saying the right thing.

Also, Jeff Demps plans to play football this year, but when he reports to Tampa Bay will depend on whether he makes the US relay team. The Bucs just traded CB Eric Wright to the 49ers, which means Johnthan Banks is likely to move into a starting job on defense. Could potentially impact his use in the return game in some fashion (not wanting to expose him to injury, or just lessening number of chances if defense is winded so they send the backup out), but it's way too early to say. Bucs is still a situation that we'll have to watch work itself out.

 

[Return of the Sheep]

Lots of info should be around as training camps start. Here are a couple links i found to keep an eye on.

http://fantasyteamadvice.com/sneak-peek-2013-kick-return-punt-return-rankings-fantasy-football/

http://www.365fantasyfootball.com/2012/06/kickpunt-returner-rankings-2012.html

 

[gandalas]

For return leagues, Travis Benjamin for the Browns could be a sneaky pick for the first 4 weeks of the season. With Gordon out with the suspension, Benjamin moves into the starting lineup while remaining the main guy on punt returns.

 

[Biabreakable]

Great thread. I agree with Adams comment about the return yardage working as a hedge for the players production. For their careers and also on a weekly basis. You might get really good return yards to make up for less catches/rushing yards. This made Harvin a very consistent player.

We still need to see how things shake out in training camp but I think it is very likely Cordarrelle Patterson. Sherels may still make it as the punt returner. That is what remains to be seen I think. Pretty sure Patterson will be the main kick returner. Patterson will play the X and compete with Simpson for that role, but he will also be moved around and take the Z role at times when they want to get him the ball in space, as well as some constraint plays and perhaps some other runs as well.

During the Vikings' preparation for the NFL draft in April, special-teams coordinator Mike Priefer prompted coach Leslie Frazier and general manager Rick Spielman to take a good look at the two best kick returners in this year's class: West Virginia receiver Tavon Austin and Tennessee receiver Cordarrelle Patterson.

The Vikings figured Austin would be gone by the time they picked at No. 23 -- and he was, going to the Rams with the eighth pick -- but if they had an opportunity to get Patterson, Priefer thought they'd have something special.

When the Vikings traded back into the first round to make Patterson their third pick of the night, Priefer joked that he was so happy, "I pulled a hamstring running down the hallway."

Priefer added, "Great move by Rick and Leslie, and I'm fired up we did it."

If Priefer is excited by Patterson's potential, he also is relieved because he knows exactly whom the Vikings are trying to replace: Percy Harvin, who ran five kickoffs back for touchdowns in his four seasons with the team and averaged 34.2 yards per return in his final two.

The Vikings lost their top receiver when they traded Harvin to Seattle in March, then found Christian Ponder a new No. 1 target when they signed Greg Jennings four days later. But they hadn't added anyone who could come close to replicating what Harvin did as a kick returner.

Drafting Patterson, in theory, gave them that. And though Priefer said Wednesday he would put Marcus Sherels at punt returner if the Vikings had to open the season today, Patterson could soon inherit both roles.

"He's so talented. Just a great athlete," Priefer said. "I think he's done a nice job of working on some of the little things: keeping his elbows tighter, keeping his hands up, keeping his hands away from his body a little bit. I think he's more comfortable catching kickoffs right now than punts, like a lot of young guys, but we're making progress in both phases."

Joe Webb also has gotten work as a return man after switching from quarterback to receiver. Priefer tried Webb at punt returner during organized team activities, just to get him experience catching the ball as a return man, and Webb has seen time at kick returner.

"He sees things. He understands things," Priefer said of Webb. "He understands how to hit the seam. He's just a different runner than a lot of guys."

But if everything goes according to plan, the Vikings will employ Patterson as a receiver, kick returner and punt returner. He scored touchdowns in all three functions last fall at Tennessee.

"When I get the ball in my hands, I feel special with it," Patterson said. "(But) I'm not Percy. I'm Cordarrelle Patterson. I don't listen to nothing like that. I only need to be myself."

http://www.twincities.com/ci_23497085/vikings-cordarrelle-patterson-gives-team-another-dynamic-kick

 

[jwp]

Hopefully SydNap will be contributing to the thread. He is a true expert and I highly value his opinions.

 

[tombonneau]

Edelman will likely continue to return punts for the Pats with Leon only handling kicks. Even if Amendola is healthy, Edelman should see a lot of snaps on offense, and if DA gets hurt Edelman will play the slot. Certainly a handcuff if you draft DA and a decent end of the roster flier with serious potential if injuries strike.

 

[Return of the Sheep]

Have a question for Eagles insider Geoff Mosher? Submit it via Twitter (@GeoffMosherCSN) or e-mail (gmosher@comcastsportsnet.com).

Q. “Who do you think is likely to receive punts and kickoffs for special teams? Think Chip will put D-Jax back there in key situations?”

- Raymond Elliott

A. Chip Kelly has already discussed reprising DeSean Jackson as a punt-return weapon, though not at the expense of the Pro Bowl wideout’s health. Jackson had become a non-factor in the return game over the past two years and returned just one punt last season. That’s because Andy Reid believed that he had a championship-caliber team that could compensate weak special teams with an elite offense and defense. Reid greatly miscalculated his talent on both sides of the ball, which led to his downfall and firing. Kelly would like to make a nice splash in his first season, so I’d expect to see Jackson become an important part of the return game again. He probably won’t be the primary guy, but I’d be stunned if Jackson didn’t get double-digit chances and all opportunities in the fourth quarters of close games.

Damaris Johnson should be more comfortable in Year 2. He’s a natural returner and could contend to be the primary kick and punt returner. Brandon Boykin is also a natural kick returner who had trouble carrying over his prowess last year as a rookie but will get his shot at training camp.

Jeremy Maclin got reps at both the spring camps but I doubt he’s willing to be the main returner in a contract season. He also hasn’t looked comfortable there despite his track record of explosive returns in college. Some guys just don’t adapt that part of the game to the pros. Felix Jones was a dynamite returner for the Cowboys but hasn’t stayed healthy in his career and isn’t a lock to make the team.

The newcomers to watch are wide receiver Arrelious Benn and rookie free agent Russell Shepard. Benn, who came over in a trade with Tampa Bay, is big and physical. He averaged 23.5 yards on 13 returns last year but also has struggled to stay healthy. Shepard, a multidimensional threat from LSU, wasn’t a return specialist in college but has the speed and quickness that could translate to the pros.

 

[captbly]

This is a place for discussing everything about kick and punt returners.

Did you hear some breaking news or even just a tidbit in a local news segment that might not have been picked up nationally? Please post it, preferably with a link, or at least with what the source is.

Footballguys now has return yardage projections for individual players.

I believe the first place that preseason projections will be available is in the Draft GM mobile app. I'm trying to find out details on the timing of when they'll be rolled out to the other usual places, such as in the normal website projections pages. Will post as I know more.

Another spot with returner information are the text-based team page write-ups such as at http://subscribers.footballguys.com/2013/13teamreport-chi.php.

Is the Footballguys return yardage predictions posted anywhere yet? Maybe Im missing it, but I am not seeing it in the player projections pages. Things still on track for this to show up in Draft Dominator also?

 

[GregR]

This is a place for discussing everything about kick and punt returners.

Did you hear some breaking news or even just a tidbit in a local news segment that might not have been picked up nationally? Please post it, preferably with a link, or at least with what the source is.

Footballguys now has return yardage projections for individual players.

I believe the first place that preseason projections will be available is in the Draft GM mobile app. I'm trying to find out details on the timing of when they'll be rolled out to the other usual places, such as in the normal website projections pages. Will post as I know more.

Another spot with returner information are the text-based team page write-ups such as at http://subscribers.footballguys.com/2013/13teamreport-chi.php.

Is the Footballguys return yardage predictions posted anywhere yet? Maybe Im missing it, but I am not seeing it in the player projections pages. Things still on track for this to show up in Draft Dominator also?

I don't believe it is available on the website yet. It is in the mobile app stuff. I don't know that it will make it into Draft Dominator this season. I believe it's going to take more code changes to include it than is planned for this year though I'll check on it.

 

[captbly]

Thanks Greg. Dodd said it would b in DD this year, I hope that's still the case. I just installed the FBG mobile. I didn't see the return yardage under projections or player or team info. Where can I find it? At a min do you have some kind of spreadsheet or something that subscribers could download?

 

[Return of the Sheep]

I'd also be interested in seeing some projections on the sight as I have a draft this week.

Here is another list to check out...

http://www.4for4.com/fantasy-football/2013/preseason/2013-punt-kick-return-studs-depth-charts

 

[drawnline]

Just echoing the excitement of everyone here that return yards get covered by FBG this year. Is there any chance return yards can make it into Rate My Team evaluations this year?

 

[Lavachebeadsman]

I tried to invent a little stat to help with return yardage leagues and Leodis Mckelvin blew everyone out of the water really, really, really hard FWIW.

 

[GregR]

Sorry for the delay guys, I'm trying to get some definitive answers on timing.

In the meantime, I can confirm the projections are in the Draft GM 2013 app, and also in the Mag Draftkit '13, and if you set scoring for kick and punt returns, the player's fantasy points will be adjusted accordingly. But I can't yet point to a spot in there where you can see the projections for the player or for all players. I'm hoping to have a full update soon.

In the meantime, wanted to post about Percy Harvin's injury. Jene Bramel estimates a 60% chance of surgery, and it could be 9-10 weeks before he resumes activity afterwards. Plus potentially working him back in gradually afterwards.

Also, William Powell was cut by the Cardinals so the kick return job may be a competition now. Not a lot of info out there yet, but Arenas, Andre Ellington, and cornerback Bryan McCann should all get a shot at it. Tyrann Mathieu is also a possibility though he was more of a punt returner in college. (Edit to add Powell was picked up by the Eagles and then cut after failing his physical.)

Another edit to add that Darrell Revis was returning some punts, but I'd hold off on assuming he's going to see any, let alone a significant amount. He hasn't exactly been the picture of health, and I have a hard time believing the Bucs will put him out there much on punts.

 

[GregR]

Two hopefully good updates to share.

First... we went ahead and got the individual projections into an article for the subscriber section of the website and also for the iPad Magazine. It's done and going through editorial review so should be showing up soon. Until the projections are available in the other normal fashions, we'll edit the article so the projections in it stay current. Again, the projections are made use of in Draft GM and the Magazine DraftKit, but you can't view them easily there, so use the article to see the values in one place.

Also we put in a Major Updates section in the article where there is a description of major changes (this time around Percy Harvin and William Powell were the two big ones). You may notice some players showing up with 0 for everything. It means at some point in the past they had a projection but have since been dropped from it. Rather than have them just disappear from the spreadsheet, we left them there with 0's so you can see what changed more easily.

Second update, David Dodds agreed they need to get in Draft Dominator and is having Bruce take a look. I don't have any kind of date, can just say it's definitely being looked at.

 

[GregR]

I think the article is visible now at http://subscribers.footballguys.com/apps/article.php?article=returnerprojections.

 

[Return of the Sheep]

I think the article is visible now at http://subscribers.footballguys.com/apps/article.php?article=returnerprojections.

Thanks. Some good info here just in the nick of time!

 

[GregR]

DeSean Jackson says he's the top punt returner.

But also worth considering is the potential serious injury to Maclin. If he is hurt, will they risk DJax on punts?

 

[UKColt]

In terms of the Colts, Hilton will probably still work punt returns like he did last year. In terms of kick returners, my bet is on Kerwynn Williams, the RB we drafted in the 7th round this year to end up as the primary guy in the kick return game.

 

[captbly]

I think the article is visible now at http://subscribers.footballguys.com/apps/article.php?article=returnerprojections.

Thanks Greg! I dont have an iphone and Draft GM 2013 for android from what I understand wont work on the version I have. Im not a mobile guy anyway so glad to see this is on the website for us subscribers!!! I appreciate you get this up. Any word on Return stats being in DD like Dodd said would happen?

 

[GregR]

I think the article is visible now at http://subscribers.footballguys.com/apps/article.php?article=returnerprojections.

Thanks Greg! I dont have an iphone and Draft GM 2013 for android from what I understand wont work on the version I have. Im not a mobile guy anyway so glad to see this is on the website for us subscribers!!! I appreciate you get this up. Any word on Return stats being in DD like Dodd said would happen?

I mentioned farther above, David said this weekend he was talking to Bruce Henderson, the programmer for Draft Dominator about it. I don't have any idea on a time frame though.

 

[GregR]

Some more returner news we're currently working in for the next set of projections.

Maclin injury is a torn ACL.

We have a list of Redskins who returned kicks: Skye Dawson, Chip Reeves, Nick Williams, Richard Crawford, Chris Thompson, Aldrick Robinson and Niles Paul. My impressions form past camp sessions with the Texans is when they are doing other than 11 on 11 kickoff or punt drills, teams can rotate a lot of guys through just to get as many reps in as possible while a returner is returning back to the spot for his next turn. Hard to break down who is in the lead in such drills.

Mike McCarthy said he likes what he sees in Johnathan Franklin as a punt returner. Also some media in attendance said he looked very natural at it.

Giovani Bernard, Andrew Hawkins, and Adam Jones were catching punts for the Bengals.

Joe Adams got the first reps as the Panthers returner. Personally I don't think that means to put him ahead of Ted Ginn though.

WR Golden Tate, WR Bryan Walters, WR Justin Veltung, WR Arceto Clark, CB Will Blackmon and CB Jeremy Lane all received reps as kickoff returners with Percy Harvin out. The lack of Christine Michael is notable compared to pre-camp talk from the coaches.

Some articles about how Tavon Austin could be used as both the primary punt and kick returner. It's worth nothing that the actual coach comments spawning the articles are along the line of "I think that’s to be determined. We still have a ways to go before that, but that definitely is a factor". So in other words the coaches didn't really give new information that he will be used that way. They were asked if he might and said it's possible but they don't know yet.

Cordarrelle Patterson got primary kick returner work as expected.

 

[GregR]

Bucs WR Mike Williams being tried out for punt returner.

 

[GregR]

Percy Harving is having surgery on his hip. Probably out until the last quarter of the season then.

Tate is in the mix to replace him.

 

[GregR]

Mike McCarthy said if Week 1 were today, Cobb would be his returner. Wants someone to step up in preseason.

 

[GregR]

Giants released an unofficial depth chart to the media. David Wilson listed as No. 1 kick returner. Reuben Randle as No. 1 punt returner.

 

[Biabreakable]

Some articles about how Tavon Austin could be used as both the primary punt and kick returner. It's worth nothing that the actual coach comments spawning the articles are along the line of "I think that’s to be determined. We still have a ways to go before that, but that definitely is a factor". So in other words the coaches didn't really give new information that he will be used that way. They were asked if he might and said it's possible but they don't know yet.

- As for the returner job, that’s something that will sort itself out over the course of camp though it’d be folly to think Austin won’t be involved in some way. Austin worked as a returner during Sunday’s practice and that will continue. How much or the extent of his work there will depend on his workload on offense, according to Fassel.

“I think that’s to be determined,” Fassel said. “We’ve still got a ways to go before that but it definitely is a factor. What’s his load on offense? Is it too much to do both punts and kickoffs? The things with kickoffs nowadays is half the time they are touchbacks so the reps are less than they used to be as far as a returner. But I think it’s to be determined what’s his load on offense. He could be a punt and kick return guy or maybe just one or none based on length of the season based on how much work he’s getting.”

- Other alternatives in the return game also are getting opportunities and that includes the likes of Nick Johnson and Isaiah Pead. Johnson, in particular, has been getting plenty of opportunities.
http://blog.stlouisrams.com/?s=punt

The part I found interesting about this is that they are having Pead compete for the return jobs as well. Sounds like Johnson is ahead of him for that role however.

 

[captbly]

Doesn't look like there is much to see in Detroit. I'm still targeting Bush and maybe he will get some situational returns

http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2013/08/detroit_lions_micheal_spurlock.html

 

[GregR]

Some NFC updates. A lot of this is based off first release of depth charts, though it's worth noting sometimes it's a PR guy who fills them out and not a coach. Atlanta's conflict with what the ST coach just said is a good example.

Arizona: Arenas lead KR and backup PR.

Atlanta: Though Douglas listed as PR, ST coach says he probably won't be. So Franks and Alford likely. Quiz and Alford the KRs.

Carolina: Ginn the PR and KR. Adams and Edwards the backup PRs and Pilares and Barner the backup KRs.

Chicago: Hester, no surprise.

Detroit: Both PR and KR start out listed as Spurlock, Patrick Edwards, and Mike Thomas.

Green Bay: Ross ahead of Franklin for the backup PR and KR to Cobb. While McCarthy has said he wants someone else to step up so he doesn't have to use Cobb, it hasn't happened now. Franklin got praised early at PR and then had a fumble.

Minny: Coach confirms Sherrels is the PR until he's outplayed. Said he's catching it better than anyone he's been around, called him the front runner. All that sounds great, except they aren't sure he's going to make the roster as a DB. So they are going to be looking at other people. Jarius Wright is next on the depth chart, though they are debating trying Patterson as a punt returner in preseason.

New Orleans: Sproles listed ahead of Cadet at PR (expected) and KR (possible surprise). Cadet backup at both KR and PR. Worth mentioning Lance Moore is 3rd string PR and Pierre Thomas is 3rd string KR on chart since both are fantasy significant players.

NY Giants: Wilson still listed as KR which is great for his fantasy outlook. Reuben Randle the PR. Jerrel Jernigan backup to both. Interestingly, David Wilson also listed as 3rd string PR.

Philly: DeSean Jackson is listed as the PR, with Damaris Johnson as his backup and as the primary KR. I speculated early on that DJax might not be used at PR to lessen injury risk with Maclin out. However after hearing how much emphasis Chip Kelly is putting on special teams as a factor that can decide games, I'm finding DJax's use there more likely.

San Fran: LaMichael James listed as both the KR and PR. This is one of those depth charts where PR and KR look identical which makes it a little harder to put faith in. Though we did have James as the most likely guy, the backup situation may not be reflected well on the depth chart.

Seattle: Tate is listed as the PR and Will Blackmon as the KR.

St Louis: Tavon Austin isn't even listed on their depth chart as a returner. However, that doesn't mean he won't have returns during the season. For now have included him in the mix still, though cut back what we had him at. Austin Pettis is listed as the punt returner, and Chris Givens and Isaiah Pead as the kick returners.

Tampa: Eric Page is listed as the PR, he was a good college KR but Bucs are using him at PR. Michael Smith and Mike James are listed as the top two KRs.

Washington: Crawford at PR, Santana Moss his backup caught me by surprise. Niles Paul at KR, no surprise there, and Aldrick Robinson and Chris Thompson as the backups, though they also listed a lot of other guys as 4th string backups so still plenty of competition there

 

[GregR]

The returner article's projections have now been updated. They should appear in the next update of the mobile app later in the week.

 

[3optic]

Eep what does the McKelvin absence from the depth chart mean do you think? I understand he's with 1st team as CB..

 

[GregR]

Eep what does the McKelvin absence from the depth chart mean do you think? I understand he's with 1st team as CB..

My bad, I missed that in my edits. Just fixed it.

He's not listed at KR, but he is on top of the depth chart as a PR. However, there is speculation he may even lose some of that because of what you said, that he's a starting corner.