*** Official 2015 College Football Thread *** (1 Viewer)

[Ramblin Wreck]

NCAA gives Penn St some scholarships back for good behavior and says the bowl ban could be lifted next year. Meanwhile, don't lie about a BBQ (Bruce Pearl) and take money (USC-Reggie Bush) because there is no good behavior clause for those infractions.

Yes, because those are exactly the same. The point here is that George Mitchell has looked at the progresss PSU has made and recommended that mediation be enacted. Word is if there is continued progress, the bowl ban goes away.

I know they aren't the same. Lying about a BBQ is pretty minor. Covering up child rape to protect the football team is not that minor.

The point is the NCAA makes stuff up as it goes like NASCAR and the WWE. Although I don't see how breaking away from the NCAA will change anything unless it just becomes anything goes so there is nothing to punish.

Sure, but here is the tough part. How would you like them to go about it? It's unreasonable to think they're going to have a written guideline for how to handle every single occurrance at hundreds of schools. It isn't like they will have a written plan for how to handle when your defensive coordinator does what JS did. They pretty much have to operate on the fly and on a case by case basis. When you did that in a very public and passionate area like college football, every choice you make will be scrutinized.

If that's the case then there is no need for a good behavior clause today. The penalties were set so abide by them. The NCAA needs good publicity right now so let's do something "popular". The entire framework of that office is crazy stupid.

 

[General Malaise]

NCAA gives Penn St some scholarships back for good behavior and says the bowl ban could be lifted next year. Meanwhile, don't lie about a BBQ (Bruce Pearl) and take money (USC-Reggie Bush) because there is no good behavior clause for those infractions.

Hey, some kid that was a walk on with Georgia Tech is working in our warehouse. Pretty cool guy. Very tall. Played WR for them. I think his career stats were like 1 catch for 19 yards. Better than me!

So....you know...if you want me to tell him 'hi' or something from you, I will.

 

[The Commish]

NCAA gives Penn St some scholarships back for good behavior and says the bowl ban could be lifted next year. Meanwhile, don't lie about a BBQ (Bruce Pearl) and take money (USC-Reggie Bush) because there is no good behavior clause for those infractions.

Hey, some kid that was a walk on with Georgia Tech is working in our warehouse. Pretty cool guy. Very tall. Played WR for them. I think his career stats were like 1 catch for 19 yards. Better than me!

So....you know...if you want me to tell him 'hi' or something from you, I will.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

NCAA gives Penn St some scholarships back for good behavior and says the bowl ban could be lifted next year. Meanwhile, don't lie about a BBQ (Bruce Pearl) and take money (USC-Reggie Bush) because there is no good behavior clause for those infractions.

Hey, some kid that was a walk on with Georgia Tech is working in our warehouse. Pretty cool guy. Very tall. Played WR for them. I think his career stats were like 1 catch for 19 yards. Better than me!

So....you know...if you want me to tell him 'hi' or something from you, I will.

Slap him on the ### and tell him nice job for that one catch

 

[Slapdash]

Getting a catch in GT's offense is a pretty big accomplishment.

 

[prefontaine]

KRACH is a popular ratings system in college hockey, in which team rankings are on an odds scale, relatively to how many times a team would beat another team if they played enough times. (For example: A team with a 200 rating would be expected to win 2-of-3 meetings vs. a team with a 100 rating. Also, because it is an odds scale, the difference of 300 to 200 is not the same as 200 to 100.)

POS. TEAM W L KRACH77 Rice 1 2 147.7994 Texas 2 2 91.82Obviously data still will be a bit skewed until more games are played, but it's worth an early look.

 

[prefontaine]

It's simple enough to envision another governing body that is structured much differently and funded much differently being more successful at getting the correct information to levy the correct punishment. Granted, you and I could probably be more successful. Yahoo's already shown that they are more successful. Once you have the organization in place, then you work on the stupid rules. A little common sense goes a long way in that area.

The NCAA's primary problem is that the small schools and big schools have very different cares. There are rules written in that are passed because D3 schools want it but it's contrary to anything the big schools want. Some of the big nagging issues that have come up this year - like agents, autograph fees, player likeness, etc - those simply aren't a concern to schools outside the BCS.

No amount of rules are going to make those things go away. There is huge money at stake and players are going to find a way to get some. Small schools feel like eliminating or softening those rules would provide a competitive disadvantage to them (and they would) but results in a feckless NCAA because there is really no way to enforce them. Schools can't do it. The NCAA can't do it.

And while you can call them "stupid rules" (and they probably are), they were passed because every single NCAA member-institution gets the same vote. If one little school hears that another little school is providing milk and cookies to recruits and they (like many of their fellow schools) can't afford to compete, they propose a rule. A spinoff fixes a lot of these issues because the FBS schools don't really need a limit on such things and it costs them more money to comply and make sure no boosters hand out milk or cookies than it does just to buy the damn things.

A breakaway will probably streamline the rules to the point that things at least make sense for the money involved. It will also mean that money for the governing body won't be used investigating D3 issues. It won't be perfect still but it will be a helluva lot better.

 

[The Commish]

It's simple enough to envision another governing body that is structured much differently and funded much differently being more successful at getting the correct information to levy the correct punishment. Granted, you and I could probably be more successful. Yahoo's already shown that they are more successful. Once you have the organization in place, then you work on the stupid rules. A little common sense goes a long way in that area.

The NCAA's primary problem is that the small schools and big schools have very different cares. There are rules written in that are passed because D3 schools want it but it's contrary to anything the big schools want. Some of the big nagging issues that have come up this year - like agents, autograph fees, player likeness, etc - those simply aren't a concern to schools outside the BCS.

No amount of rules are going to make those things go away. There is huge money at stake and players are going to find a way to get some. Small schools feel like eliminating or softening those rules would provide a competitive disadvantage to them (and they would) but results in a feckless NCAA because there is really no way to enforce them. Schools can't do it. The NCAA can't do it.

And while you can call them "stupid rules" (and they probably are), they were passed because every single NCAA member-institution gets the same vote. If one little school hears that another little school is providing milk and cookies to recruits and they (like many of their fellow schools) can't afford to compete, they propose a rule. A spinoff fixes a lot of these issues because the FBS schools don't really need a limit on such things and it costs them more money to comply and make sure no boosters hand out milk or cookies than it does just to buy the damn things.

A breakaway will probably streamline the rules to the point that things at least make sense for the money involved. It will also mean that money for the governing body won't be used investigating D3 issues. It won't be perfect still but it will be a helluva lot better.

Tend to agree....I big key to restructuring would be putting similar schools together, because, as you say smaller schools have different priorities. I don't agree it's by their choice because I'm confident if they were bigger, they'd be along the thought lines as the bigger schools. So, what happens is the smaller schools muck up the process to spite the larger schools. That's a design flaw in the NCAA and needs to be fixed. The biggest thing that has to be done is dropping the notion it's about the "students" and be up front with what it is. If folks don't want to be part of it, they don't have to be. Allow the schools to align by their vision and goals. If your institution is about the student athlete you go to classification A, if it's about making money you go to classification B.

 

[Dickie Dunn]

KRACH is a popular ratings system in college hockey, in which team rankings are on an odds scale, relatively to how many times a team would beat another team if they played enough times. (For example: A team with a 200 rating would be expected to win 2-of-3 meetings vs. a team with a 100 rating. Also, because it is an odds scale, the difference of 300 to 200 is not the same as 200 to 100.)

POS. TEAM W L KRACH77 Rice 1 2 147.7994 Texas 2 2 91.82Obviously data still will be a bit skewed until more games are played, but it's worth an early look.

One of Texas' two wins is against the worst-ranked FBS team. and right now that counts for 25 percent of its opponents. So yeah, those are the flaws you get when you have so few games. Or Texas could have not gotten drubbed by BYU and Mississippi.

 

[The Commish]

Kinda surprised this NCAA thing is being covered as much as it is on the networks. Lots of folks up in arms over the NCAA getting involved again and reducing the "sanctions". What's odd to me is that those people up in arms now are the same ones up in arms over them not interjecting themselves before. Do they want the NCAA involved or not? Seems like they only want them involved if they are adding punishment, but somehow their involvement in reducing the punishment shouldn't be tolerated.

The NCAA is a joke all around folks. This revocation is just as stupid as them sticking their noses in to begin with.

 

[Premier]

Really I don't give two ####s about the ncaa. College football is ####ing awesome and #### everything else.

Isn't there a MAC game on we can discuss instead of this lame moral garbage?

 

[Uwe Blab]

Oh Virginia Tech...trying to claw ahead on the ridiculous helmet wars... http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/9716220/virginia-tech-wear-special-hokie-stone-helmets-georgia-tech

 

[culdeus]

Heading to Fayetville this weekend. Saw McCarron's mom at the TAMU/Bama game so I figure seeing coach's wife shouldn't be an issue this time around.

 

[The Commish]

Is Delany Wrong Here??

Generally, I don't care much for Delany but I think he has some valid points here

"Maybe in football and basketball, it would work better if more kids had a chance to go directly into the professional ranks," Delany said. "If they're not comfortable and want to monetize, let the minor leagues flourish. Train at IMG, get agents to invest in your body, get agents to invest in your likeness and establish it on your own. But don't come here and say, 'We want to be paid $25,000 or $50,000.' Go to the D-League and get it, go to the NBA and get it, go to the NFL and get it."

"I think we ought to work awful hard with the NFL and the NBA to create an opportunity for those folks. We have it in baseball, we have it in golf, works pretty good, we have it in golf, we have it in hockey. Why don't we have it in football, basketball? Why is it our job to be minor leagues for professional sports?"

 

[The Commish]

Holy Crap

 

[Christo]

Is Delany Wrong Here??

Generally, I don't care much for Delany but I think he has some valid points here

"Maybe in football and basketball, it would work better if more kids had a chance to go directly into the professional ranks," Delany said. "If they're not comfortable and want to monetize, let the minor leagues flourish. Train at IMG, get agents to invest in your body, get agents to invest in your likeness and establish it on your own. But don't come here and say, 'We want to be paid $25,000 or $50,000.' Go to the D-League and get it, go to the NBA and get it, go to the NFL and get it."

"I think we ought to work awful hard with the NFL and the NBA to create an opportunity for those folks. We have it in baseball, we have it in golf, works pretty good, we have it in golf, we have it in hockey. Why don't we have it in football, basketball? Why is it our job to be minor leagues for professional sports?"

 

[Christo]

Holy Crap

Too soon?

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Are there rules about time removed from high school to play in the CFL or Arena league? Theoretically, could a player that wants to be paid while he develops not join one of those leagues straight out of high school, make a modest salary for two years, and then enter the pros?

 

[The Commish]

Are there rules about time removed from high school to play in the CFL or Arena league? Theoretically, could a player that wants to be paid while he develops not join one of those leagues straight out of high school, make a modest salary for two years, and then enter the pros?

Good question....I'm not sure. Though if I'm being honest, I don't see how playing in the Arena League is going to help improve anything. That's just a trainwreck waiting to happen every play.

 

[prefontaine]

Anyone 18 or older can play Arena League

This is just a new talking point by Delaney. As pointed out, those guys can already do that by going out of country (hoops) or playing Arena league. That's his point and it's a point the NCAA will try to drive home to keep from having to share money with players. He doesn't actually want the NFL or NBA to try to compete. Long term it would be a disaster for the NCAA schools. This is entirely about O'Bannon.

But that's not to say it's not a good point. The exposure from playing in college is much greater than the Arena League. That's worth a lot long term and the basics behind the suit ignore that aspect. It needs to be considered. This is also the same consideration that most ignore when it comes to conference tv contracts. But that's another discussion entirely.

 

[The Commish]

Anyone 18 or older can play Arena League

This is just a new talking point by Delaney. As pointed out, those guys can already do that by going out of country (hoops) or playing Arena league. That's his point and it's a point the NCAA will try to drive home to keep from having to share money with players. He doesn't actually want the NFL or NBA to try to compete. Long term it would be a disaster for the NCAA schools. This is entirely about O'Bannon.

But that's not to say it's not a good point. The exposure from playing in college is much greater than the Arena League. That's worth a lot long term and the basics behind the suit ignore that aspect. It needs to be considered. This is also the same consideration that most ignore when it comes to conference tv contracts. But that's another discussion entirely.

It's that way now because that's where the talent is. I don't think the Arena League would be smart regardless, but if the players stopped and thought for a minute, it makes sense to go elsewhere like the CFL. Scouts WILL go where the talent is. Yes, it would destroy NCAA football, but who cares? College is suppose to be about the academics first right?

I flip on this issue constantly. Part of me says these guys are getting screwed but, the other part says they agree to be exploited by choosing the collegiate path. I often wonder if it would be smart (from a teaching perspective) to give these players the money in lieu of the scholarship, hold them to the same academic standards and make them pay for their education on their own. At the least it should change perspective on the value of the scholarship they are given. I feel like too often the value of the education is completely ignored. It's almost an afterthought at this point.

 

[prefontaine]

this is really more economics than you'd think. The exposure would change over time if the talent migrated somewhere else. But that would take a loooong time. The fan base isn't there in other leagues and until it is, the exposure will always be less.

Sure scouts go to where talent is, but talent is most easily recognized by playing against other talent. As an example, if Johnny Manziel were playing in the Arena League today, no one would know who he is. He probably wouldn't be drafted at all because he lacks ideal measurements for what the NFL is looking for. Warren Moon or Jeff Garcia bounced around the CFL for years. Kurt Warner played AFL. They ended up being pretty decent NFL players when given the chance. They didn't have the exposure that a Manziel has had in college (okay Moon may be an exception and there were other issues at work but the point remains).

Sure a guy can blow up the combine and climb up the charts, but a lack of film against other elite athletes will leave lingering doubts in scout's minds. For a kid today to choose the Arena League, he needs to be a Jadaveon Clowney type of freak athlete (freak athlete Eric Swann actually took this route btw). Otherwise he will never get the same respect as a comparable guy that goes to a major football factory and plays weekly on national tv against other draft prospects.

And finally, being a star in college can lead to wealth your whole life without ever making it in the NFL. Guys like Vince Young and Tim Tebow probably will never have to pay for a meal or drink in their home state the rest of their life because of what they did in college despite washing out in the NFL. Jason White can make a living off his name and selling autographs despite never even getting an NFL sniff. That's not to count the thousands of athletes every year that don't go pro but actually took advantage of the educational opportunity. The downside for those guys to go play Arena is that they have nothing to fall back on. There's just way too much risk for an individual today to spurn the NCAA machine.

So if you are a top high school athlete, you are better off playing in the NCAA for now. Given this, who chooses the alternative path? It may be good for players down the line but it likely hurts you here and now.

 

[Christo]

Anyone 18 or older can play Arena League

This is just a new talking point by Delaney. As pointed out, those guys can already do that by going out of country (hoops) or playing Arena league. That's his point and it's a point the NCAA will try to drive home to keep from having to share money with players. He doesn't actually want the NFL or NBA to try to compete. Long term it would be a disaster for the NCAA schools. This is entirely about O'Bannon.

But that's not to say it's not a good point. The exposure from playing in college is much greater than the Arena League. That's worth a lot long term and the basics behind the suit ignore that aspect. It needs to be considered. This is also the same consideration that most ignore when it comes to conference tv contracts. But that's another discussion entirely.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

this is really more economics than you'd think. The exposure would change over time if the talent migrated somewhere else. But that would take a loooong time. The fan base isn't there in other leagues and until it is, the exposure will always be less.

Sure scouts go to where talent is, but talent is most easily recognized by playing against other talent. As an example, if Johnny Manziel were playing in the Arena League today, no one would know who he is. He probably wouldn't be drafted at all because he lacks ideal measurements for what the NFL is looking for. Warren Moon or Jeff Garcia bounced around the CFL for years. Kurt Warner played AFL. They ended up being pretty decent NFL players when given the chance. They didn't have the exposure that a Manziel has had in college (okay Moon may be an exception and there were other issues at work but the point remains).

Sure a guy can blow up the combine and climb up the charts, but a lack of film against other elite athletes will leave lingering doubts in scout's minds. For a kid today to choose the Arena League, he needs to be a Jadaveon Clowney type of freak athlete (freak athlete Eric Swann actually took this route btw). Otherwise he will never get the same respect as a comparable guy that goes to a major football factory and plays weekly on national tv against other draft prospects.

And finally, being a star in college can lead to wealth your whole life without ever making it in the NFL. Guys like Vince Young and Tim Tebow probably will never have to pay for a meal or drink in their home state the rest of their life because of what they did in college despite washing out in the NFL. Jason White can make a living off his name and selling autographs despite never even getting an NFL sniff. That's not to count the thousands of athletes every year that don't go pro but actually took advantage of the educational opportunity. The downside for those guys to go play Arena is that they have nothing to fall back on. There's just way too much risk for an individual today to spurn the NCAA machine.

So if you are a top high school athlete, you are better off playing in the NCAA for now. Given this, who chooses the alternative path? It may be good for players down the line but it likely hurts you here and now.

Additionally, isn't this kind of similar to what many other professions go through? A finance major can go work at Burrito Brothers for two years and get paid but have it ignored when he goes to apply for his real job, or he can go take an unpaid internship at Capital One, miss out on the dough, but have something great on his resume when he finishes if he does well there.

 

[prefontaine]

Anyone 18 or older can play Arena League

This is just a new talking point by Delaney. As pointed out, those guys can already do that by going out of country (hoops) or playing Arena league. That's his point and it's a point the NCAA will try to drive home to keep from having to share money with players. He doesn't actually want the NFL or NBA to try to compete. Long term it would be a disaster for the NCAA schools. This is entirely about O'Bannon.

But that's not to say it's not a good point. The exposure from playing in college is much greater than the Arena League. That's worth a lot long term and the basics behind the suit ignore that aspect. It needs to be considered. This is also the same consideration that most ignore when it comes to conference tv contracts. But that's another discussion entirely.

College. Baseball.

 

[Christo]

Anyone 18 or older can play Arena League

This is just a new talking point by Delaney. As pointed out, those guys can already do that by going out of country (hoops) or playing Arena league. That's his point and it's a point the NCAA will try to drive home to keep from having to share money with players. He doesn't actually want the NFL or NBA to try to compete. Long term it would be a disaster for the NCAA schools. This is entirely about O'Bannon.

But that's not to say it's not a good point. The exposure from playing in college is much greater than the Arena League. That's worth a lot long term and the basics behind the suit ignore that aspect. It needs to be considered. This is also the same consideration that most ignore when it comes to conference tv contracts. But that's another discussion entirely.

College. Baseball.

College. Football. Existed before the NFL. More people watch it. More people attend. Ain't going nowhere.

 

[Slapdash]

Anyone 18 or older can play Arena League

This is just a new talking point by Delaney. As pointed out, those guys can already do that by going out of country (hoops) or playing Arena league. That's his point and it's a point the NCAA will try to drive home to keep from having to share money with players. He doesn't actually want the NFL or NBA to try to compete. Long term it would be a disaster for the NCAA schools. This is entirely about O'Bannon.

But that's not to say it's not a good point. The exposure from playing in college is much greater than the Arena League. That's worth a lot long term and the basics behind the suit ignore that aspect. It needs to be considered. This is also the same consideration that most ignore when it comes to conference tv contracts. But that's another discussion entirely.

College. Baseball.

College baseball is awesome. The end of the year tournament is very fun to watch.

 

[Christo]

Anyone 18 or older can play Arena League

This is just a new talking point by Delaney. As pointed out, those guys can already do that by going out of country (hoops) or playing Arena league. That's his point and it's a point the NCAA will try to drive home to keep from having to share money with players. He doesn't actually want the NFL or NBA to try to compete. Long term it would be a disaster for the NCAA schools. This is entirely about O'Bannon.

But that's not to say it's not a good point. The exposure from playing in college is much greater than the Arena League. That's worth a lot long term and the basics behind the suit ignore that aspect. It needs to be considered. This is also the same consideration that most ignore when it comes to conference tv contracts. But that's another discussion entirely.

College. Baseball.

College baseball is awesome. The end of the year tournament is very fun to watch.

Yes, it is. I understand the point he's trying to make; CBB isn't a popular spectator sport. But it's just not a good comparison. CBB was never a big spectator sport.* CFB would lose some of its stars. But it's not going to hurt the overall product. CFB is just too ingrained in our society.

I know guys with season tickets to OU football who've attended just about every home game since they went to school there. 99% of them couldn't name a player on the OU baseball team or tell you their record each season. They get excited if the team makes it to the CWS but that's about it.

 

[pollardsvision]

Anyone 18 or older can play Arena League

This is just a new talking point by Delaney. As pointed out, those guys can already do that by going out of country (hoops) or playing Arena league. That's his point and it's a point the NCAA will try to drive home to keep from having to share money with players. He doesn't actually want the NFL or NBA to try to compete. Long term it would be a disaster for the NCAA schools. This is entirely about O'Bannon.

But that's not to say it's not a good point. The exposure from playing in college is much greater than the Arena League. That's worth a lot long term and the basics behind the suit ignore that aspect. It needs to be considered. This is also the same consideration that most ignore when it comes to conference tv contracts. But that's another discussion entirely.

College. Baseball.

College baseball is awesome. The end of the year tournament is very fun to watch.

Yes, it is. I understand the point he's trying to make; CBB isn't a popular spectator sport. But it's just not a good comparison. CBB was never a big spectator sport.* CFB would lose some of its stars. But it's not going to hurt the overall product. CFB is just too ingrained in our society.

I know guys with season tickets to OU football who've attended just about every home game since they went to school there. 99% of them couldn't name a player on the OU baseball team or tell you their record each season. They get excited if the team makes it to the CWS but that's about it.

Yeah, I don't think it would hurt CFB much at all if players could go straight to the pros or if there was a viable minor league system for the NFL.

People love college football no matter the level of talent. Fans of the big programs will find just as much enjoyment as they do now as long as they continue getting the best players in the available pool compared to other colleges.

I'd bet the reason there's not already a viable minor league system for the NFL is that the loyalty to college football is so ingrained, that the loyalty and money wouldn't follow the talent over to a minor league system.

You could take all the top recruits going to Alabama and put them on a minor league team Tuscaloosa, do the same in Baton Rouge, and I bet very few of the people in either state would really care about the Tuscaloosa Hustlers-Baton Rouge Bandits game.

Basketball is the best example. The decade or so where a lot of players went from HS to the NBA didn't do anything to damage the popularity of the CBB. Heck, for a lot of CBB fans, 99% of their enjoyment comes from the time of year when really ####ty teams get a chance to pull an upset.

 

[prefontaine]

Anyone 18 or older can play Arena League

This is just a new talking point by Delaney. As pointed out, those guys can already do that by going out of country (hoops) or playing Arena league. That's his point and it's a point the NCAA will try to drive home to keep from having to share money with players. He doesn't actually want the NFL or NBA to try to compete. Long term it would be a disaster for the NCAA schools. This is entirely about O'Bannon.

But that's not to say it's not a good point. The exposure from playing in college is much greater than the Arena League. That's worth a lot long term and the basics behind the suit ignore that aspect. It needs to be considered. This is also the same consideration that most ignore when it comes to conference tv contracts. But that's another discussion entirely.

College. Baseball.

College baseball is awesome. The end of the year tournament is very fun to watch.

Yeah, college baseball is pretty much my favorite of all sports. But you guys totally missed my point (which maybe I should have made more clear but thought it was obvious). College baseball is not and has never been a revenue sport. Despite being the number 2 sport in this country even today (for most of the NCAA's existence, baseball was #1), it has never been a revenue sport. Ever. Why? Because there is a mature development league in place.

Hoops drafting high schoolers is not at all the same. Those guys are only the elite of the elite and go straight to the NBA. We're not talking about straight to the NFL or NBA here. A well financed and mature development league would crush the college sports. It wouldn't happen over night. The players would slowly migrate and the level of play would deteriorate. Fans would become disinterested.

Make a list of the top ten grossing professional sports in this country and then a list of which ones have either a development league in place (baseball, hockey) and those that you can go pro at an early age (tennis, golf). Now make a list of revenue sports in the NCAA. Cross-reference that list and tell me if you come to any conclusions.

 

[The Commish]

this is really more economics than you'd think. The exposure would change over time if the talent migrated somewhere else. But that would take a loooong time. The fan base isn't there in other leagues and until it is, the exposure will always be less.

Sure scouts go to where talent is, but talent is most easily recognized by playing against other talent. As an example, if Johnny Manziel were playing in the Arena League today, no one would know who he is. He probably wouldn't be drafted at all because he lacks ideal measurements for what the NFL is looking for. Warren Moon or Jeff Garcia bounced around the CFL for years. Kurt Warner played AFL. They ended up being pretty decent NFL players when given the chance. They didn't have the exposure that a Manziel has had in college (okay Moon may be an exception and there were other issues at work but the point remains).

Sure a guy can blow up the combine and climb up the charts, but a lack of film against other elite athletes will leave lingering doubts in scout's minds. For a kid today to choose the Arena League, he needs to be a Jadaveon Clowney type of freak athlete (freak athlete Eric Swann actually took this route btw). Otherwise he will never get the same respect as a comparable guy that goes to a major football factory and plays weekly on national tv against other draft prospects.

And finally, being a star in college can lead to wealth your whole life without ever making it in the NFL. Guys like Vince Young and Tim Tebow probably will never have to pay for a meal or drink in their home state the rest of their life because of what they did in college despite washing out in the NFL. Jason White can make a living off his name and selling autographs despite never even getting an NFL sniff. That's not to count the thousands of athletes every year that don't go pro but actually took advantage of the educational opportunity. The downside for those guys to go play Arena is that they have nothing to fall back on. There's just way too much risk for an individual today to spurn the NCAA machine.

So if you are a top high school athlete, you are better off playing in the NCAA for now. Given this, who chooses the alternative path? It may be good for players down the line but it likely hurts you here and now.

A few things here.

#1. I'm not sure it would be a long term disaster for the NCAA schools. What makes you say that? Yes, there are some schools who live off their athletic finances. For those schools it would be an issue, but that's on them isn't it? It's quite hypocritical for them say "hey, this is about the education first" out of one side of their mouth then whine out the other side of their mouth that their cash cow has been taken away. Those schools who were structured this way would obviously be impacted until they started supporting themselves via education and students.

#2. I can't really disagree with any of the rest of what you say. The exposure is unmatchable (for now) going to a D1 school. Athletes can much easier establish their "brand" on that stage than going a different path. However, everything that you listed as "pros" for going through the NCAA needs to be brought to the table as a "benefit" when weighing whether these guys are being compensated well enough for their work. I rarely, if ever, see that happen. They ignore everything not money in these discussions

 

[Slider6]

this is really more economics than you'd think. The exposure would change over time if the talent migrated somewhere else. But that would take a loooong time. The fan base isn't there in other leagues and until it is, the exposure will always be less.

Sure scouts go to where talent is, but talent is most easily recognized by playing against other talent. As an example, if Johnny Manziel were playing in the Arena League today, no one would know who he is. He probably wouldn't be drafted at all because he lacks ideal measurements for what the NFL is looking for. Warren Moon or Jeff Garcia bounced around the CFL for years. Kurt Warner played AFL. They ended up being pretty decent NFL players when given the chance. They didn't have the exposure that a Manziel has had in college (okay Moon may be an exception and there were other issues at work but the point remains).

Sure a guy can blow up the combine and climb up the charts, but a lack of film against other elite athletes will leave lingering doubts in scout's minds. For a kid today to choose the Arena League, he needs to be a Jadaveon Clowney type of freak athlete (freak athlete Eric Swann actually took this route btw). Otherwise he will never get the same respect as a comparable guy that goes to a major football factory and plays weekly on national tv against other draft prospects.

And finally, being a star in college can lead to wealth your whole life without ever making it in the NFL. Guys like Vince Young and Tim Tebow probably will never have to pay for a meal or drink in their home state the rest of their life because of what they did in college despite washing out in the NFL. Jason White can make a living off his name and selling autographs despite never even getting an NFL sniff. That's not to count the thousands of athletes every year that don't go pro but actually took advantage of the educational opportunity. The downside for those guys to go play Arena is that they have nothing to fall back on. There's just way too much risk for an individual today to spurn the NCAA machine.

So if you are a top high school athlete, you are better off playing in the NCAA for now. Given this, who chooses the alternative path? It may be good for players down the line but it likely hurts you here and now.

A few things here.

#1. I'm not sure it would be a long term disaster for the NCAA schools. What makes you say that? Yes, there are some schools who live off their athletic finances. For those schools it would be an issue, but that's on them isn't it? It's quite hypocritical for them say "hey, this is about the education first" out of one side of their mouth then whine out the other side of their mouth that their cash cow has been taken away. Those schools who were structured this way would obviously be impacted until they started supporting themselves via education and students.

#2. I can't really disagree with any of the rest of what you say. The exposure is unmatchable (for now) going to a D1 school. Athletes can much easier establish their "brand" on that stage than going a different path. However, everything that you listed as "pros" for going through the NCAA needs to be brought to the table as a "benefit" when weighing whether these guys are being compensated well enough for their work. I rarely, if ever, see that happen. They ignore everything not money in these discussions

I think you phrased #1 wrong. Schools don't live off of their athletic finances, but athletic departments live off their football finances. If this happened, and the football finances went down then the athletic department as a whole would suffer greatly.

 

[The Commish]

this is really more economics than you'd think. The exposure would change over time if the talent migrated somewhere else. But that would take a loooong time. The fan base isn't there in other leagues and until it is, the exposure will always be less.

Sure scouts go to where talent is, but talent is most easily recognized by playing against other talent. As an example, if Johnny Manziel were playing in the Arena League today, no one would know who he is. He probably wouldn't be drafted at all because he lacks ideal measurements for what the NFL is looking for. Warren Moon or Jeff Garcia bounced around the CFL for years. Kurt Warner played AFL. They ended up being pretty decent NFL players when given the chance. They didn't have the exposure that a Manziel has had in college (okay Moon may be an exception and there were other issues at work but the point remains).

Sure a guy can blow up the combine and climb up the charts, but a lack of film against other elite athletes will leave lingering doubts in scout's minds. For a kid today to choose the Arena League, he needs to be a Jadaveon Clowney type of freak athlete (freak athlete Eric Swann actually took this route btw). Otherwise he will never get the same respect as a comparable guy that goes to a major football factory and plays weekly on national tv against other draft prospects.

And finally, being a star in college can lead to wealth your whole life without ever making it in the NFL. Guys like Vince Young and Tim Tebow probably will never have to pay for a meal or drink in their home state the rest of their life because of what they did in college despite washing out in the NFL. Jason White can make a living off his name and selling autographs despite never even getting an NFL sniff. That's not to count the thousands of athletes every year that don't go pro but actually took advantage of the educational opportunity. The downside for those guys to go play Arena is that they have nothing to fall back on. There's just way too much risk for an individual today to spurn the NCAA machine.

So if you are a top high school athlete, you are better off playing in the NCAA for now. Given this, who chooses the alternative path? It may be good for players down the line but it likely hurts you here and now.

A few things here.

#1. I'm not sure it would be a long term disaster for the NCAA schools. What makes you say that? Yes, there are some schools who live off their athletic finances. For those schools it would be an issue, but that's on them isn't it? It's quite hypocritical for them say "hey, this is about the education first" out of one side of their mouth then whine out the other side of their mouth that their cash cow has been taken away. Those schools who were structured this way would obviously be impacted until they started supporting themselves via education and students.

#2. I can't really disagree with any of the rest of what you say. The exposure is unmatchable (for now) going to a D1 school. Athletes can much easier establish their "brand" on that stage than going a different path. However, everything that you listed as "pros" for going through the NCAA needs to be brought to the table as a "benefit" when weighing whether these guys are being compensated well enough for their work. I rarely, if ever, see that happen. They ignore everything not money in these discussions

I think you phrased #1 wrong. Schools don't live off of their athletic finances, but athletic departments live off their football finances. If this happened, and the football finances went down then the athletic department as a whole would suffer greatly.

There are a lot of schools that if their football program didn't exist, they wouldn't exist...at least in the capacity that they do today. School buildings are built because of boosters to the athletic programs. Departments are opened because of donations from their boosters. Athletic departments bring "competition" to the school in forms other than sports. Don't think for a second these kinds of donations would continue to pour in if competitive athletics didn't exist at these schools. I don't think for a second that Stephen Ross would have donated $200 million dollars to Michigan if there were no athletics. That's what I'm referring to in #1.

 

[Slapdash]

I think you phrased #1 wrong. Schools don't live off of their athletic finances, but athletic departments live off their football finances. If this happened, and the football finances went down then the athletic department as a whole would suffer greatly.

Disagree completely.

 

[prefontaine]

I had to re-read your posts about 5 times to get it Commish I'm slow sometimes

The thing is, in today's world, education is costing more and more. The state's are paying less. And the money donated to educational institutions is their lifeblood (as well as research). Losing that huge marketing arm that NCAA sports, particularly football, have grown into would be crushing. I don't know the politics of other states but higher education funding in Texas (trying to stay out of the political side) is feeling the pinch in a big way.

(warning: I the details a few weeks ago on but don't have it in front of me so this may be off some but is relatively accurate) The two flagship schools (UT and A&M) received about $800m in donations to academics in the past year, a large part driven by athletics as we all know. If that money goes away, they are going to have to significantly raise tuition or turn away students. Both of those outcomes would be devestating to the educational system in Texas (and probably this country). We would have fewer well educated citizens and they would be paying more, hitting the lower class the hardest.

I don't want to make out athletics as the be-all-end-all but the fact is that many universities are built this way. And a change imo would be siginficantly detrimental.

 

[TobiasFunke]

You guys realize that there are literally hundreds of colleges and universities that somehow not only survive but also participate in intercollegiate athletics without the support of big-time football, right? Are these institutions all some sort of miracle workers?

 

[Joe T]

There is a greater than 50% chance that Ole Miss beats Alabama this weekend.

 

[Dickie Dunn]

This has become kind of a cluster around my alma mater this afternoon.

http://t.co/zqjLWUndL0

Personally I think there is a certain faction of alums (including the Ravens' James Ihedigbo, for one) who believe that Molnar hasn't done a good job in outreach. Then there is the lack of results on the field (1-15, including 0-4 so far this year).

But IMHO, using the video (which is more than a year old and appears to have been leaked from inside the athletic department) as a protest tactic kind of hides whatever message they might have here. No one is sure whether they are calling for the staff's head, or what the end game is.

Just wanted to get some outside reaction and see if this is something that goes on elsewhere (I know the use of "combative" training has since been banned by the NCAA, so obviously it was more than one school doing it).

 

[The Commish]

I had to re-read your posts about 5 times to get it Commish I'm slow sometimes

The thing is, in today's world, education is costing more and more. The state's are paying less. And the money donated to educational institutions is their lifeblood (as well as research). Losing that huge marketing arm that NCAA sports, particularly football, have grown into would be crushing. I don't know the politics of other states but higher education funding in Texas (trying to stay out of the political side) is feeling the pinch in a big way.

(warning: I the details a few weeks ago on but don't have it in front of me so this may be off some but is relatively accurate) The two flagship schools (UT and A&M) received about $800m in donations to academics in the past year, a large part driven by athletics as we all know. If that money goes away, they are going to have to significantly raise tuition or turn away students. Both of those outcomes would be devestating to the educational system in Texas (and probably this country). We would have fewer well educated citizens and they would be paying more, hitting the lower class the hardest.

I don't want to make out athletics as the be-all-end-all but the fact is that many universities are built this way. And a change imo would be siginficantly detrimental.

I'm not saying a lot of schools would be hit pretty hard. I know they would, but that's the catch 22 they are in, right? They are claiming this is all about education. There are networks of schools (of which Texas is one) that while they'd be hit and have a temporary set back, would recover pretty quickly. For example, look at the schools in the CIC network....their academics are primarily funded by that research group they have set up. I'd imagine Texas, being a research beast could supplement their losses with research to. There are tons of schools out there that don't have major athletics and they're fine. Yes, a lot of the sports powers today would probably be shells of themselves, but others would be just fine.

ETA: I'll even go as far to say that the schools/presidents/ADs saying they should pay the students are the places that would be hit the hardest and it's clearly the way they are set up as an institution. They know if they lose their athletics, their academics take a severe hit.

 

[Raider Nation]

LOL @ VT's helmets. Every school tries to out-stupid the last one.

 

[Premier]

Are those postage stamps? Passports?

 

[pollardsvision]

Are those postage stamps? Passports?

Hokie Stone.

Don't know how it differs from other building stones, but pretty much every building on campus is made out of the stuff.

I hate to say, but I kinda like the helmets.

 

[Raider Nation]

Speaking of helmets, where is the GT?

 

[pollardsvision]

Speaking of helmets, where is the GT?

Screw that. I want to see some honeycomb helmets.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Speaking of helmets, where is the GT?

Throwback uniforms.

Better question, where is the GT football team?

 

[Raider Nation]

Speaking of helmets, where is the GT?

Throwback uniforms.

Better question, where is the GT football team?

Yeah, after watching a quarter and a half, it's hard to believe the Hokies are getting 7.5 points.

 

[scottybo]

There is a greater than 50% chance that Ole Miss beats Alabama this weekend.

50.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001?

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

You don't see many halves that bad from the GT offense.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

great decision PJ

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

great decision PJ

I don't mind him going for the fourth down. But four straight runs up the middle where VT has dominated all night is just stupid.