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*Official 2016 Philadelphia Eagles* - The year of Change (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Deamon
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babydemon90
Footballguy
I think Denver will go with Osweiler - he's been in the system, unless they don't like what they've seen from him. I think Cleveland will take the opportunity of being #2 overall to get the best QB available. SF is a possibility, but they are quite a few pieces away. Houston is as close to a QB away as I've seen - heck, if we don't want him, we can probably work out a tag and trade with them.
Insein
Footballguy
You'd have to have Sam and Houston onboard with that process because otherwise once he signs that tag contract, we owe him a lot of money and he's our guy if either of those two back out.
Mighty Mice
Footballguy
Me too. I expect that the team freed up some room off his $5M 2016 cap and it keeps a good locker room guy and team leader in the fold.
ETA 3 year, $13M. $6M guaranteed. Add on two more years. Still a productive player.
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Not sure how I feel about it. The deal seems reasonably appropriate, as Celek would be a TE1 on more than a few teams. If it feed up cap space, hafta see it as an overall positive.
Insein
Footballguy
Veteran leadership on offense. He's the only guy left that's won a playoff game for the Eagles (aside from Dorenbos). He was going to be a $5mil hit before. Have to figure that drops a bunch this year and pushes the damage out a couple of years.
MOBILE, AL -- The Eagles are going to be spending time with the player many feel is the best quarterback in the 2016 NFL Draft.
Speaking at a Senior Bowl event Tuesday night, North Dakota State quarterback Carson Wentz revealed that he had a meeting scheduled with the Eagles on Wednesday.
Might not mean much, but shows we may have some interest. As much as I've been on the "keep Bradford" side, if Wentz is there at 13 I'd be happy with him. However, still VERY unlikely he slips to us at 13 and I wouldn't want to trade up for him given our draft situation. Would be suicide going all in on this guy and not Franchising Sam in March only to end up not getting him and then being stuck with Sanchez/Daniels as our starter next year.
Speaking at a Senior Bowl event Tuesday night, North Dakota State quarterback Carson Wentz revealed that he had a meeting scheduled with the Eagles on Wednesday.
Might not mean much, but shows we may have some interest. As much as I've been on the "keep Bradford" side, if Wentz is there at 13 I'd be happy with him. However, still VERY unlikely he slips to us at 13 and I wouldn't want to trade up for him given our draft situation. Would be suicide going all in on this guy and not Franchising Sam in March only to end up not getting him and then being stuck with Sanchez/Daniels as our starter next year.
jon007
Footballguy
LOLOLOLOL thanks interwebs I don't know what I would do without you.
https://www.facebook.com/jason.chavez.12/videos/10100885401091287/
https://www.facebook.com/jason.chavez.12/videos/10100885401091287/
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
It's amazing to me how much slack Bradford continues to get. The guy has been in the league since 2010 and he's still a "possible franchise quarterback"? He's a league average to slightly above league average quarterback. He's never shown to be anything beyond that six seasons into his career. Yes, he's been injured - but lets face it as Herm Edwards says "The most important ability for a player is availability."
I guess if we go with a broad definition of "franchise quarterback" he qualifies and yes he's no worse than guys like Tannehill or Cutler so I agree that he's likely to get paid since he's at worst a competent quarterback with perhaps some upside and even that isn't easy to find.
Personally I guess I could see either side of the arguments as to what's the best course of action for the Eagles as far as Bradford is concerned - no one likes uncertainty and there's no "sure thing" QBs in this draft imo. However if I was a fan I'd probably prefer that the team didn't tie up big money on a career underachiever and would just draft a guy and bring in a stop gap guy like Chase Daniel, Brian Hoyer or Luke McCown. Honestly I'm not sure any of those guys would be that much less productive than Bradford. It's not exciting, but it's probably smart in the long run.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
If you feel he's the one you get him if you can and the price is somewhat reasonable--None of that BS that was offered last year for Marriota. What helps us a ton, IMO is that there's going to be 3 QB's and possible 4 going in the first round. Opinions are sure to vary widely on each one so there is a very good possibility IMO that one of the 3 fall to us...maybe even 2
Also, theyre probably going to meet with any and all QB's--We just have to
Im totally fine with tagging Sam and grabbing a QB early
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
When you watch Sam it looks like he can play....that's pretty much all I have.
Purely hypothetical....if he had the weapons that a team like Arizona has what do you think his #'s would look like? Personally Im thinking a top 10 QB. It's VERY hard to judge him due to the fact that he may have had the worst weapons, of any QB in the league, since 2010
massraider
Footballguy
Sweet Jesus. Well, that's all over my FacebookLOLOLOLOL thanks interwebs I don't know what I would do without you.
https://www.facebook.com/jason.chavez.12/videos/10100885401091287/
You only have to look at the second half of this season to realize that he's much better than average. His quarterback rating was right between Aaron Rodgers and Eli Manning. Even with his team leading the league in drops. I'd say they're above average quarterbacks in this league. With much better weapons.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
I don't think Bradford is a guy that you can ask to put a team on his back and win the Super Bowl. I don't think he's going to get players around him into the Pro Bowl. Bradford though is a guy who can be a good starting QB for a team that can win the Super Bowl. He can have Pro Bowl(FWIW) caliber years and win games singlehandedly for you.....he's just not Hall of Fame/Elite.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I think that's an excuse that everyone is willing to make for Bradford and good quarterbacks make their receivers look good. I also think he had decent weapons in St. Louis.
I don't think he's terrible and sure better weapons would help (look at Fitzpatrick this season as an example), but he is what he is at this point.
I have him on a dynasty roster so I'd love for him to be a top 10 QB in this league - but I don't see that happening.
dhockster
Footballguy
I'm not saying he is not getting his money. My point was I don't think Houston will sign him for the money he will require, because of his injury risk. After Going with Fitzpatrick and Hoyer as starting QB's the last two years, Bill O'Brien can't risk signing Bradford to big money and then have him miss significant time due to injury. I live in Houston, and Bradford just does not feel like a player that the Texans would go out and get.
massraider
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
QB rating is a tool, but doesn't tell the complete picture. Do you really think any team would choose Bradford over Rodgers (even during his worst season in the league) or Eli Manning?
He is the definition of "league average" - all you need to do is start ranking quarter backs in this league and it becomes quite clear:
This list isn't necessarily in order - but which of these quarterbacks would you take Bradford over:
Rodgers
Luck
Newton
Brady
Wilson
Brees
Big Ben
Eli Manning
Tony Romo
Blake Bortles
Phillip Rivers
Carson Palmer
All are clearly better. Guys that are, at worse, on the same tier as him:
Flacco
Smith
Fitzpatrick
Cousins
Peyton Manning (out of respect - at this point he's likely worse)
Tannehill
Then you have the young guys that look to have more upside:
Mariota
Winston
Carr
Listen, I surely understand why a fan would much rather keep him then roll the dice on finding a young quarterback that hits. I'm just not sure it's the best approach for a franchise to overspend on mediocrity - it's surely a fine line to walk admittedly.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Just because everyone makes that excuse doesnt make invalid. His group of weapons was posted in the Bradford thread and theyre some of the worst names I have ever seen. You are correct that good QB's make their weapons look better. In the second half of this season he was one of the higher rated QB's in the league while we lead the league in drops. I believe that counts for something.
I think that Fitzpatrick is what he is, Im not so sure about Sam who is probably 10 years younger and hasn't had the opportunity to play with anyone as good as even Decker let along a Brandon Marshall
There's seems to be a lot of opinion of Sam but no one meets in the middle for some reason. For the record, I don't think he is an elite QB but he has the potential to be a Carson Palmer'ish QB with a more talented supporting cast in Philly. Like I mentioned previously a lot of my opinion is just watching him play. He just looks the part and I'd love to see what he could do with a top 15 WR
You forgot Jay Cutler. Who I'd put in your Flacco tier. That puts Flacco, Alex Smith, and Tannehill in the equal to or worse than Bradford tier. All are getting paid 20 million per or more. You've proven my argument.
When you consider that Brady, Brees, Eli, and Rivers are all on the downside of their careers and likely out of the league in three years or so, that makes a young guy like Bradford even more valuable.
Insein
Footballguy
I just don't see a huge upside with Bradford. I think at best we can hope for a Cutler like performance. That got the Bears to the NFC Championship game one time with all the pieces alligned but ultimately Cutler was just not good enough to get it done. I think Cutler and Bradford are very similar talent wise. The Bears have been Crippled by Jays contract and have tried to get out from under it since they had him sign it. I don't want that for us.
I think the Eagles see it the same way.
I think the Eagles see it the same way.
Insein
Footballguy
You've also proven the point that average QBs are getting over paid. Bradford could be the next.
Yes, he absolutely could be the next one. Or, he may stay healthy and continue the improvement he made during this past season and become what Carson APalmer became (minus the huge playoff choke). I'd like to see him be franchised to see if that improvement continues. And to see if he can stay injury free. Without a major commitment. We haven't had a good quarterback since McNabb. And didn't have one since Randall before that. So getting lucky through the draft is not something I have much faith in. Especially at 13.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I've agreed with that "argument" right from the start:
My point is I'm not sure that overpaying for mediocrity is the best thing for a franchise in the long run. How has Chicago and Miami been doing lately?
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Kind of disagree. Cutler peaked a bit, came off as a head case and has been trending bad for a while now. Same in his final year in STL and his year here have been better.
Insein
Footballguy
True but we have had much luck signing one either. Vick had the most success as a QB who wasn't drafted. Former #1 pedigree off the scrap heap. Paid him. Was just a flash in the pan. The more I think of the franchise tag, the more I don't think the Eagles want to go there. With a long term contract, you can structure the cap in the first few years to be a nice number. With the tag, the cap hit is the full $20+mil. It also makes the player angry at the lack of a long term deal, the front office angry at the money spent and the fans angry because they don't have a QB ehos really committed.
On the plus side, if Bradford signs a big contract deal somewhere else, we could get a 2nd or 3rd rounder in 2017 as compensation. Not much but better than nothing.
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
What Palmer has became? You may want to revisit his career. He was a top NFL QB while with the Bengals right from the start of his career. After injuries and getting shipped to Oakland his career took a downturn, but now he's back to being elite again, something Bradford never has been in the first place.
Insein
Footballguy
Which is why I think Cutler is the better comparison. Great QB talent and pedigree. Didn't quite work at his original team and got traded. Played pretty good at times for his new team and got paid. Now is just a guy. I can see Bradford going down a similar path.
I wouldn't be dead set on letting Bradford go, but I better see a plan. If they trot out Mark Sanchez, I'm rooting for a different team. The Miami,Tampa and Detroit games showed that he doesn't belong in this league anymore.
Insein
Footballguy
With a $5mil cap hit, I don't think there's anyway Sanchez is back. Daniel just got done a 3yr $10mil deal with KC. I can see a 2 year deal in the $5-$6mil range for him to be the placeholder. Way cheaper cap number.
Not sure Philly fans have the patience to sit through a Chase Daniels season or two while the next Kafka sits and develops. Pederson would be fired after year two.
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This. Plus, the injury-prone label is over-relied on. It's a violent game and stuff happens somewhat randomly. Once he settled in, Bradford absolutely LOOKED like a top ten QB...in real NFL games that mattered. If FA vets were in the draft...he'd be the top QB selected. I'm not completely against the idea of drafting a QB and tagging Sam, but it's not exactly a gimme move. Bradford deserves a 18-21 mil/yr deal at this point, and
I think would be worth it.
You don't throw away "very good" in the hopes of getting the one elite QB that comes out every 4 or 5yrars. That's just stupid.
This is, IMO, the biggest thing in Sams favor. I'm astounded at how many folks DRAMATICALLY over-rate the odds of getting a QB better than NFL average in the draft. Worse...it usually takes 2-3 years to figure it out. Its not at all unusual for a franchise to be stuck for a decade or more before they get a guy who's merely average like the detractors here are labeling Bradford.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
No. But if the "Very Good" QB wants to be paid like an "Elite" QB.....you have to at least look at the dollars and cents. A Very Good QB on an Elite deal can really hamstring your cap.
Regarding the injury prone label I think it's a legit concern based on his history and his build. His listed weight sounds solid but he almost looks like a 70's era QB in his uniform from back when the players were not all bulked up. Trying to say he has a very thin lower build. I recall Brian Billick saying he looked like a K in his uniform, but I think most K's have stronger lower bodies than Bradford.
I also think the injuries matter to his play. He looks jittery to me, like a guy who is afraid of getting hurt.
Injuries aside I've never at any point last year or any time in his career looked at him and thought he looked like a top 10 QB.
And after saying all that I still think letting him walk in FA is absolutely not an option. I'd happily sign him to a Alex Smith type contract at around $18m per year, but $21 is getting a bit much. Due to his injury history, which again I think is a real concern, if he did not want to commit to a 4 year or shorter deal at those kind of numbers I'd just franchise him if not attractive trades presented themselves. But no way he walks for nothing.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
Isn't it a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy with bad teams though?......they don't have average/good/elite QBs because they continually get new head coaches who get rid of the previously drafted QBs and draft new ones.
If Aaron Rodgers was drafted by OAK....would he still be Aaron Rodgers?
But that's the new QB market. Very good is paid elite, and even the not so very good, and if Bradford hit the open market he'd have at least 2-3 teams trying to pay him elite money, at least I say.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
But are those the type of teams that have continued success....or are they ones constantly chasing the curve?
I think he looked jittery early on. Very nervous about his knees. That seemed to lesson as the season went on and I thought he looked comfortable in the pocket in the last 6 or so games. Even the hit that sprained his shoulder was the result of him hanging in there too long. That wasn't a blind side hit. It was right at his face.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
I think it's actually pretty simple on Bradford.....
Sign him if you think the team can contend within these next two seasons (that is....the D is going to get better/be a top level D unit, they'll fix the O-Line problems and Agholar and Matthews blossom into who you think they were when you drafted them). Obviously try to get him in as cheap as possible, but more importantly get him in on a contract that doesn't kill you cap wise three years from now if he's not who you think he is. While doing that....always be looking for your next QB thru the draft.
If you think the team is at least three years away.......then I think you let him walk.
Sign him if you think the team can contend within these next two seasons (that is....the D is going to get better/be a top level D unit, they'll fix the O-Line problems and Agholar and Matthews blossom into who you think they were when you drafted them). Obviously try to get him in as cheap as possible, but more importantly get him in on a contract that doesn't kill you cap wise three years from now if he's not who you think he is. While doing that....always be looking for your next QB thru the draft.
If you think the team is at least three years away.......then I think you let him walk.
Insein
Footballguy
Come on. Fans don't fire coaches. Owners do. Lurie fired Chip because he pissed him off behind the scenes. Do you see Pederson doing anything that would prevent Lurie for keeping him the full term? He'd have to be awful at which point he would deserve it. I don't see us being that bad with this defense.
The point of a new coach is that he wants to make the mark on the team with his guys. Drafting a young QB and grooming him has been the classic job security move for new coaches for years.
Yeah, ask the guys who drafted Winston and Mariota last year.
No, the fans don't fire coaches, but Lurie has an ear open to them. If every phone call on WIP is calling for Pederson's head and every three and out is accompanied by 60 thousand boos, he's going to get fired.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
How many games have you watched of his this season? I'll say early on he had a few of these moments and only a few. The last half of the season he didn't have a single one. He stands tall and steps right into the pressure to deliver the throw. I have seen that tons of times this season and more times than not they end up as damn good throws.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
IMHO even if you think you're 3 years away you have to do it. You're going to need someone to play the position while you're looking for your next franchise QB.
With the draft moved back so FA is basically done beforehand your hand is forced to keep him IMO. The ONLY other acceptable outcome would be to sign Cousins to a lesser deal than Sam gets. These guys are both still young and can lead a team with a decent supporting cast IMO.
