*** Official 2019 Chargers Thread **** (1 Viewer)

[Despyzer]

So with the news that the Chargers are "moving on" from Rivers. What would you like to see happen?

• Bring in a FA (Brady, Brees, Tannehill, Prescott, Winston, Bridgewater, Mariota)
  
• Trade for someone who might be available (Cam, Fitzpatrick)
  
• Trade up for Burrows or Tagliavia
  
• Draft Herbert or Love
  
• Trade down or draft late for Fromm, Eason, Hurts...
  
• Stand pat with Tyrod and Stick
  
• Some other alternative?
  

 

[Gr00vus]

I think it's rebuild time. See if one comes to you in the draft, I'm not a huge fan of trading up, I'd rather see a trade down and gamble on a player in the late 1st, or just stand pat and use a later draft pick. Use Tyrod as a placeholder for a while.

And fix the ####### interior lines!

 

[Gr00vus]

Assuming it's over for Rivers as a Charger, all time: Fouts or Rivers?

Fouts for me.

 

[Tau837]

So with the news that the Chargers are "moving on" from Rivers. What would you like to see happen?

• Bring in a FA (Brady, Brees, Tannehill, Prescott, Winston, Bridgewater, Mariota)
  
• Trade for someone who might be available (Cam, Fitzpatrick)
  
• Trade up for Burrows or Tagliavia
  
• Draft Herbert or Love
  
• Trade down or draft late for Fromm, Eason, Hurts...
  
• Stand pat with Tyrod and Stick
  
• Some other alternative?
  

I became a Chargers fan when Rivers was traded to the Chargers in 2004. Given:

• The team is moving on from him, and not via a graceful retirement
  
• I despise the Spanos family
  
• I think poorly of Telesco and Lynn
  

...I will be moving my fandom to another team. Perhaps Seattle, which has been my second favorite team due to Russell Wilson (same NC State connection as Rivers), and perhaps wherever Rivers lands. Probably both.

All that said, I haven't moved on yet. I can use process of elimination to whittle down the options:

1. IMO moving on from Rivers implies moving on to the team's QBOTF. That is not Brady or Brees. IMO it would be disrespectful to Rivers, one of the 2-3 best players in franchise history, to "move on" from him to sign Brady. I wouldn't put this past Spanos at all, but, fortunately, I expect Brady is too smart to do it. And Brees has clearly stated that he will return to NO or retire.
   
2. I don't think Tannehill or Prescott will make it to the open market, so I am ignoring them.
   
3. IMO Bridgewater is fool's good and will not provide good return on the contract he would require.
   
4. IMO Mariota is done as a starter in the NFL. Look at the contrast between him and Tannehill. He might not even be a quality backup.
   
5. Winston might be of some interest, given he is still young and has shown flashes. But the fact that Arians had him for a year and doesn't want him, which would be the case if he reaches the open market, would carry a lot of weight with me. He also carries a knucklehead factor that Telesco has tended to avoid. And, finally, he will probably be pretty expensive.
   
6. I could see Lynn foolishly wanting to trade for Newton. I certainly wouldn't. He is not a QBOTF, and Tyrod would probably provide similar performance at a much lower price and with less drama.
   
7. Fitzpatrick is not a QBOTF, so he is out.
   
8. It isn't Telesco's style to trade up to #1, given all that would require. So Burrow is out. Besides, CIN might not make that trade, anyway.
   
9. The only way standing pat with Tyrod and Stick makes sense is to tank for Trevor Lawrence in the 2021 draft, and build up other areas in 2020, most notably the OL. That might work if (a) Telesco and Lynn weren't both on the hot seat in 2020, and (b) the team wasn't moving into the new stadium with need to sell PSLs and tickets. Can't see this one as a viable option. 
   

That leaves drafting a QB, which is really the only reason it would have made sense to move on from Rivers. Everyone probably knows the odds associated with drafting QBs, but here is a partial refresher. Let me start by admitting that "successful" is a bit subjective here. That said, in the past 20 drafts:

1. There have been 21 QBs drafted in the 2nd round. The only ones who were/are successful so far: Brees, Garoppolo, and Carr (?).
   
2. There have been 26 QBs drafted in the 3rd round. The only ones who were/are successful so far: Wilson, Foles (?), and Brissett (?).
   
3. There have been 28 QBs drafted in the 4th round. The only ones who were/are successful so far: Cousins and Prescott.
   
4. There have been 34 QBs drafted in the 5th round. None were/are successful so far.
   
5. There have been 45 QBs drafted in the 6th round. The only ones who were/are successful so far: Brady, Bulger, and Tyrod (?). Jury is out on Minshew, though I am skeptical he can be a long term successful NFL starter.
   
6. There have been 28 QBs drafted in the 7th round. The only ones who were/are successful so far: Fitzpatrick and Cassell.
   

That is 13 successful QBs among 182 QBs drafted in the 2nd round or later. Where "successful" includes journeymen like Foles, Tyrod, and Fitzpatrick. The true success stories are Brady, Brees, Wilson, Cousins, and Prescott. Maybe Garoppolo. So 5-6 out of 182 QBs were long term above average or better NFL starters. The odds look a bit better if you consider just rounds 2-4, but still not good -- 4-5 out of 75 drafted QBs.

The success rate of 1st round QBs isn’t great… but it’s a lot better than the later rounds.

So my view is that the Chargers should draft Herbert or Tua, assuming one is available at #6 and further assuming the Chargers grade one or both of them as worthy of that pick. If neither is available (or grades out high enough), this situation looks much worse.

I guess they could draft Love, Fromm, or Hurts in the second, but those guys seem like they carry much longer odds to succeed. They would also just miss on the 5th year option available if they moved up to draft whichever guy at the end of the 1st, like BAL did with Jackson. Though the 5th year option is starting to seem less advantageous, with star players seemingly willing to hold out to avoid it.

If I had to guess what they will do, my guess is they draft Herbert or Tua at #6. And, as we sit here today prior to the combine and all of the examination of those two that will occur between now and the draft, I think that is what they should do. Then let Tyrod start most of the season and take the beating that comes with playing behind the Chargers OL, and hope to improve the OL for 2021.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Assuming it's over for Rivers as a Charger, all time: Fouts or Rivers?

Fouts for me.

fouts......but I think we really don't realize how special Phil was.....well except for jwb

 

[Tau837]

Assuming it's over for Rivers as a Charger, all time: Fouts or Rivers?

Fouts for me.

It isn't clear if you are asking who we prefer, or who should be viewed as the greater all-time Charger. It is obvious that Rivers is who I prefer, and I think he was greater than Fouts.

Fouts played for a better organization. The Spanos family bought the Chargers in 1984, when Fouts had just gotten through his prime. Rivers played his entire career to date under Spanos ownership.

Fouts played the majority of his career for Don Coryell, who not only was a HOF caliber coach but also created an innovative offense that gave Fouts a real advantage for a while over his peers. Rivers played the majority of his career for Norv, McCoy, and Lynn. Not comparable.

Both of them were the primary starter for the Chargers for 14 seasons. Fouts led the Chargers to the playoffs 4 times and the team was 3-4 in those postseasons. Rivers led the Chargers to the playoffs 6 times, and the team was 5-6 in those postseasons.

It's close, but give me Rivers.

 

[Gr00vus]

fouts......but I think we really don't realize how special Phil was.....well except for jwb

Rivers was really, really good. I struggle to go to great with him though. The differences in how the game was being played between Fouts's time and Rivers's is what puts Fouts ahead for me. Granted he had awesome support in both in terms of the skill level of his teammates and the inventiveness and willingness to take risks of his coaching staff, but Fouts was still the guy who made it all work. Rivers is one of several QBs of his era that put up similar numbers in what has become a pass crazy league.

 

[Despyzer]

Assuming it's over for Rivers as a Charger, all time: Fouts or Rivers?

Fouts for me.

Fouts for me also, but I think it's pretty close.

 

[Tau837]

Rivers is one of several QBs of his era that put up similar numbers in what has become a pass crazy league

Sure. But:

1. None of the others had to deal with Spanos, AJ, Telesco, Norv, McCoy, and Lynn.
   
2. Who are the several, Brady, Brees, Peyton, Rodgers, Roethlisberger, and Eli? It is no slight to Rivers that he played at the same time as 4 others (first 4 on my list here) who are in contention for top 5-10 QBs of all time. And he was clearly better than Eli.
   

 

[Gr00vus]

Sure. But:

1. None of the others had to deal with Spanos, AJ, Telesco, Norv, McCoy, and Lynn.
   
2. Who are the several, Brady, Brees, Peyton, Rodgers, Roethlisberger, and Eli? It is no slight to Rivers that he played at the same time as 4 others (first 4 on my list here) who are in contention for top 5-10 QBs of all time. And he was clearly better than Eli.
   

Early in his career - because of or in spite of management/coaching - Rivers had as much talent around him as you could reasonably ask for.  I can't give him a leg up on Fouts for having to suffer through a disparate lack of talent around him. As a whole, management coaching was worse, agreed.

 

[Despyzer]

Sure. But:

1. None of the others had to deal with Spanos, AJ, Telesco, Norv, McCoy, and Lynn.
   
2. Who are the several, Brady, Brees, Peyton, Rodgers, Roethlisberger, and Eli? It is no slight to Rivers that he played at the same time as 4 others (first 4 on my list here) who are in contention for top 5-10 QBs of all time. And he was clearly better than Eli.
   

I don't think there is much argument that putting up big passing numbers in today's game is much easier and much more common than it was in the 80's. Of the top ten in career passing yards, only three had careers that didn't intersect with Rivers'.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Sure. But:

1. None of the others had to deal with Spanos, AJ, Telesco, Norv, McCoy, and Lynn.
   
2. Who are the several, Brady, Brees, Peyton, Rodgers, Roethlisberger, and Eli? It is no slight to Rivers that he played at the same time as 4 others (first 4 on my list here) who are in contention for top 5-10 QBs of all time. And he was clearly better than Eli.
   

aj Smith hiring norv Turner was the move that paralyzed this team....the Marty thing was so weird....what if Marlon mcrae just takes a knee.....idiot

 

[Gr00vus]

@Just Win Baby - are you going to follow Rivers to his new team, or are you going to hang with the rest of us long suffering Charger sad sacks? Both?

 

[travdogg]

Assuming it's over for Rivers as a Charger, all time: Fouts or Rivers?

Fouts for me.

Fouts easily. He's a borderline top-10 QB of all-time for me. I like Rivers a lot, but he's not in that conversation. 

Still a joke to me that Fouts didn't win the 82 MVP. The league gave it to a kicker, not even a great kicker, just to spite the players for striking. In my mind, Fouts has an MVP award, and a 5,000 yard season. Only thing that stopped that from being true was crappy politics. 

 

[menobrown]

I thought AJ and Telesco were/are pretty good at their jobs and don't think talent level on the roster has been an issue. Spano's and the coaching hires are something else.

As for what Chargers do next year at QB I think they got to first decide, and maybe they have, are they making a longterm football decision or a short term business decision to be able to sale tickets and generate some local fan interest?

Until further notice I'm seriously downgrading all LAC players, Ekeler the least(assuming Gordon is gone), but all downgraded as I fear if they go with longterm football decision we are looking at Tyrod and a rookie QB. And if that rookie QB is Tua or Love I think we are looking at Tyrod for better part of the year.

I'm guessing when reports came out this weekend that they would look at putting transition tag on Hunter Henry it's because they leaked those reports because right now they are not that close to an agreement and if he ever hit's the open market he's gone.  All just a guess but Hunters value for 2020 is very precarious right now. Tyrod would be horrible.

 

[Gr00vus]

They were both really tough as well. I remember one game Fouts played where he got hit hard enough that his facemask somehow got driven into his nose bridge and he played the rest of the game with blood streaming down his face. Still might have to give the edge to Rivers there though. Playing in that AFC championship game against the Pats with a torn ACL and meniscus - can't give the guy enough credit for that.

 

[Despyzer]

Fouts easily. He's a borderline top-10 QB of all-time for me. I like Rivers a lot, but he's not in that conversation. 

Still a joke to me that Fouts didn't win the 82 MVP. The league gave it to a kicker, not even a great kicker, just to spite the players for striking. In my mind, Fouts has an MVP award, and a 5,000 yard season. Only thing that stopped that from being true was crappy politics. 

I love Fouts, but I wouldn't even give him the MVP trophy for the Chargers that year. Extrapolate Wes Chandler's season over 16 games and you get 118 catches for 2,062 yards and 18 TDs. Those would be stellar numbers today. In the early 80's, that was jawdropping.

 

[Tau837]

I thought AJ and Telesco were/are pretty good at their jobs and don't think talent level on the roster has been an issue

You thought this about Telesco based upon what, exactly? Telesco has been a disaster. See this post and this post, and don't forget that "talent level on the roster" includes OL and IDL.

 

[Tau837]

Early in his career - because of or in spite of management/coaching - Rivers had as much talent around him as you could reasonably ask for.  I can't give him a leg up on Fouts for having to suffer through a disparate lack of talent around him. As a whole, management coaching was worse, agreed.

You reference "lack of talent around him." Are you including OL?

 

[Tau837]

I don't think there is much argument that putting up big passing numbers in today's game is much easier and much more common than it was in the 80's. Of the top ten in career passing yards, only three had careers that didn't intersect with Rivers'.

I didn't cite passing numbers in my rationale for choosing Rivers over Fouts.  

 

[menobrown]

You thought this about Telesco based upon what, exactly? Telesco has been a disaster. See this post and this post, and don't forget that "talent level on the roster" includes OL and IDL.

Don't forget the talent on the roster includes the whole roster.

 

[Tau837]

Don't forget the talent on the roster includes the whole roster.

I haven't forgotten anything. You chose to respond to my post without responding to the question I asked. I covered why Telesco's performance as Chargers GM has been bad quite thoroughly in the first post I linked. If you disagree with any of that, feel free to elaborate.

 

[menobrown]

I haven't forgotten anything. You chose to respond to my post without responding to the question I asked. I covered why Telesco's performance as Chargers GM has been bad quite thoroughly in the first post I linked. If you disagree with any of that, feel free to elaborate.

Don't accuse me of forgetting something if you can't handle the same reply.

No thanks on delving into this wormhole.  For one I don't feel the need to get into long winded stat based discussions everytime someone does not agree with my post.

Secondly, and most importantly, I have zero idea how to convince you the roster is filled with talent and instead just under performed due to bad coaching/injuries.

Telesco, like any GM is not perfect. He has his misses and seems especially bad at identifying OL. But his hits have been tremendous, he recently had a 5 or 6 year streak of adding a pro bowl or All-Pro player via the draft.

So yes I disagree and have elaborated as much as I care to elaborate.

Editing this to add that literally about within minute of leaving this post above I heard a conversation on Sirius XM Blitz show which I got playing in background. The had Chris Myers on and were discussing the FA QB market and if a team out there could sign a QB in FA that had Peyton going to Denver impact.  First team they brought up was Chargers. Cited fact they often won in spite of Rivers. The Sirius guys said he felt they were a SB contender with the right QB, based on talent of the roster. Chris Myers responded he was not sure they were that close and then cited coaching as reason for his holdback but followed that up with saying they had the talent.

 

[Tau837]

Don't accuse me of forgetting something if you can't handle the same reply.

No thanks on delving into this wormhole.  For one I don't feel the need to get into long winded stat based discussions everytime someone does not agree with my post.

Secondly, and most importantly, I have zero idea how to convince you the roster is filled with talent and instead just under performed due to bad coaching/injuries.

Telesco, like any GM is not perfect. He has his misses and seems especially bad at identifying OL. But his hits have been tremendous, he recently had a 5 or 6 year streak of adding a pro bowl or All-Pro player via the draft.

So yes I disagree and have elaborated as much as I care to elaborate.

I handled your reply just fine. You seem to have been offended by my earlier post, but that wasn't my intent. Apologize for not wording my first response better.

I agree the roster contains a lot of talent. I disagree that equates to talent having not been an issue, since OL and IDL continue to lack talent, and those position groups are arguably more important than many others.

I mean, it's a bottom line business. The Chargers have a losing record since Telesco took over and have sunk to last in the division. That seems to dispute the notion that talent level on the roster has not been an issue.   

I'm happy to agree to disagree about Telesco's performance. I stand by my assessment of it.

 

[menobrown]

I handled your reply just fine. You seem to have been offended by my earlier post, but that wasn't my intent. Apologize for not wording my first response better.

I agree the roster contains a lot of talent. I disagree that equates to talent having not been an issue, since OL and IDL continue to lack talent, and those position groups are arguably more important than many others.

I mean, it's a bottom line business. The Chargers have a losing record since Telesco took over and have sunk to last in the division. That seems to dispute the notion that talent level on the roster has not been an issue.   

I'm happy to agree to disagree about Telesco's performance. I stand by my assessment of it.

Good reply.

I think the issues have mainly been coaching and injuries but would for sure say, and already did, Telesco might have blind spot for drafting OL or at least one's that can stay healthy.

It's ok to agree to disagree, which is were we end up.

 

[Tau837]

Editing this to add that literally about within minute of leaving this post above I heard a conversation on Sirius XM Blitz show which I got playing in background. The had Chris Myers on and were discussing the FA QB market and if a team out there could sign a QB in FA that had Peyton going to Denver impact.  First team they brought up was Chargers. Cited fact they often won in spite of Rivers. The Sirius guys said he felt they were a SB contender with the right QB, based on talent of the roster. Chris Myers responded he was not sure they were that close and then cited coaching as reason for his holdback but followed that up with saying they had the talent.

Yeah, I will just have to agree to disagree with them also. I think people often use talent to reference "skill positions" and ignore OL and IDL in their thinking and discussion of talent. It makes a lot of sense, since fantasy football is popular and does not directly value OL, plus ESPN highlights are typically made by skill players, not OL and IDL.

It is laughable to say the Chargers often won in spite of Rivers and they are a SB contender with a different QB (understanding that the current elite NFL QBs like Mahomes are not available). So laughable that IMO it pretty much invalidates their take on the Chargers.

That take just reinforces my view that Rivers is criminally underrated. SMH

 

[Despyzer]

I mean, it's a bottom line business. The Chargers have a losing record since Telesco took over and have sunk to last in the division. That seems to dispute the notion that talent level on the roster has not been an issue.   

I get what you're saying and don't completely disagree, but how do we rationalize the fact that last year they were tied for the best record in the conference?

 

[Tau837]

I get what you're saying and don't completely disagree, but how do we rationalize the fact that last year they were tied for the best record in the conference?

Under Telesco:

• 2013 - 9-7 (playoffs)
  
• 2014 - 9-7
  
• 2015 - 4-12
  
• 2016 - 5-11
  
• 2017 - 9-7
  
• 2018 - 12-4 (playoffs)
  
• 2019 - 5-11
  

Which one of these looks like a fluke? 2018, obviously. I will repeat what I posted earlier in the thread:

In the 7 seasons prior to Telesco's arrival:

• 70-42 regular season record
  
• 3-4 postseason record; made the playoffs 4 times
  
• 30-12 division record; 4 division titles
  
• Only losing season was the last one of that 7 year period - at 7-9 - which resulted in both the head coach and GM being fired
  

In the 7 seasons since Telesco arrived:

• 53-59 regular season record (35-45 in past 5 seasons)
  
• 2-2 postseason record; made the playoffs 2 times (1-1 with 1 playoff appearance in past 5 seasons)
  
• 14-28 division record; no division titles (8-22 in past 5 seasons)
  
• 3 losing seasons, which included a 4 win season, and 2 5 win seasons (all 3 losing seasons within past 5 seasons)
  

Let that sink in for a minute. Now realize these things:

• Telesco is responsible for this entire roster and coaching staff. Rivers and Ingram are the only two players who pre-dated Telesco, but he extended both of them. None of the coaches pre-dated Telesco.
  
• Telesco has had a HOF QB throughout his tenure, and has not been forced to significantly address the QB position yet, which should have provided him an advantage over many of his peers. Unfortunately, he seems to have squandered that advantage.
  

This is a results-oriented business. Those are bad results.

The first two seasons were more with AJ's roster than Telesco's own roster. It seems fairer to look at the past 5 seasons, which have been dismal.

Over the past 5 seasons, only 10 teams had fewer regular season wins than the Chargers:

• Chargers 35 wins
  
• CHI 34 wins
  
• DET 34 wins
  
• MIA 34 wins
  
• WAS 34 wins
  
• CIN 33 wins
  
• TAM 32 wins
  
• NYJ 31 wins
  
• JAX 29 wins
  
• NYG 29 wins
  
• CLE 17 wins
  

That is pretty poor company. And consider the QB situations for all of those teams... big edge to the Chargers there, which suggests that the rest of the roster and the coaching staff was bottom 3 caliber. Also notice that every team in the division had more wins.

As for 2018, the Chargers were 6-1 in one possession games. They had a great season, but exceeded what would normally be expected on that front. They were really more of a 9-10 win team that managed to win 2-3 extra close games. That's great and was really enjoyable, but it was obviously not sustainable -- they were 2-9 in one possession games in 2019.

 

[Despyzer]

What? No meltdown regarding the Anthony Lynn extension?

And only seven pages of comments for an entire season.

This fanbase seems to have lost its passion.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

What? No meltdown regarding the Anthony Lynn extension?

And only seven pages of comments for an entire season.

This fanbase seems to have lost its passion.

well move from SD and see what you get, they are going to play in a new stadium with it half full from other teams fans, going to be a joke. 

Im ok with Lynn, and we all know they are going to spend on Brady to try and fill the stadium up......sigh

 

[Tau837]

What? No meltdown regarding the Anthony Lynn extension?

Personally, I've been done with Lynn since how he handled Gordon's return this season.  

I have no idea why the Chargers felt compelled to extend him now, without waiting to see how he does in 2020, to see if 2018 or 2019 was the fluke. There was no compelling reason to do it. Other than... Chargers.

And only seven pages of comments for an entire season.

This fanbase seems to have lost its passion.

And this is my 98th comment in the thread... almost 30% of the comments in this thread... so it has often enough felt like I was talking to myself in here...

If Rivers is gone, I'll post a lot less frequently in the 2020 Chargers thread, which someone else will need to create.

 

[Gr00vus]

What? No meltdown regarding the Anthony Lynn extension?

And only seven pages of comments for an entire season.

This fanbase seems to have lost its passion.

Maybe he'll be good at rebuilding?

 

[BroncosFan07]

Do you predict that they resign Gordon?

 

[Despyzer]

Do you predict that they resign Gordon?

I think I'd be VERY surprised if they did that. I think the only way that happens if there is just no market for him, and the Chargers get him at a discounted rate.

 

[BoltNlava]

I think I'd be VERY surprised if they did that. I think the only way that happens if there is just no market for him, and the Chargers get him at a discounted rate.

If Gordon is willing I'd say yes. lol   After all of the hoopla died down he did bring something to the table and will not be that sought after as a FA. Lynn is after all a running back coach from what I understand so ...Yes. Weak market and a desperate Chargers team could equal a signing of Gordon. If he's willing. Let's hope he's not.

 

[B Maverick]

Assuming it's over for Rivers as a Charger, all time: Fouts or Rivers?

Fouts for me.

What no love for Stan "The Man" Humphries and their lone SB appearance?

 With Tyrod as a decent bridge guy and one that can also escape the rush when the line doesn't block, you have options.  If you think Herbert or Love is a franchise QB, take them.  If Tua falls to 6 take him.  If neither happen build your oline and talent and look for a qb later.  

 This team is close though.  They just need to learn to win the close games instead of finding a way to lose.  I have always been a fan of Rivers but he was part of that find a way to lose mentality they've had.  Get a qb who can move and your oline doesnt have to be perfect.  Rivers couldnt escape anything and it resulted in heaving the ball for the int, getting sacked, fumbles, etc. 

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

What no love for Stan "The Man" Humphries and their lone SB appearance?

 With Tyrod as a decent bridge guy and one that can also escape the rush when the line doesn't block, you have options.  If you think Herbert or Love is a franchise QB, take them.  If Tua falls to 6 take him.  If neither happen build your oline and talent and look for a qb later.  

 This team is close though.  They just need to learn to win the close games instead of finding a way to lose.  I have always been a fan of Rivers but he was part of that find a way to lose mentality they've had.  Get a qb who can move and your oline doesnt have to be perfect.  Rivers couldnt escape anything and it resulted in heaving the ball for the int, getting sacked, fumbles, etc. 

sad day actually, his decision making and skills declined, the league is changing, you need to be somewhat mobile now adays

At least with Phil the chargers had a punchers chance at the playoffs, I hope they don't head to a mike riley era of irrelevance....sigh....

Gonna be tough in the division with the Chiefs looking so damn good with Mahomes…….

Tyrod is awful, heck, Id play Stick and tank for trevor…….draft Isiah Simmons LB from Clemson....need a DT, and Oline….oh yeah same problem every year

 

[B Maverick]

sad day actually, his decision making and skills declined, the league is changing, you need to be somewhat mobile now adays

At least with Phil the chargers had a punchers chance at the playoffs, I hope they don't head to a mike riley era of irrelevance....sigh....

Gonna be tough in the division with the Chiefs looking so damn good with Mahomes…….

Tyrod is awful, heck, Id play Stick and tank for trevor…….draft Isiah Simmons LB from Clemson....need a DT, and Oline….oh yeah same problem every year

Not sure I agree Tyrod is awful but yes they do need a plan.  QB driven league so that is a priority.  And a mobile one will help with oline issues.  But both need attention.

And although the Dolphins may still end up with him, their "Tank for Tua" plan really didnt go well ending up with the 5th pick.  Never know who is going to pull a bengals or giants and be worse.

 

[Despyzer]

Not sure I agree Tyrod is awful

I don't think he's awful either. He actually has a better career winning percentage than Eli Manning. He doesn't throw INTs, but he does have a propensity for taking the sack. He's hardly Nathan Peterman.

 

[Tau837]

Not sure I agree Tyrod is awful

I don't think he's awful either. He actually has a better career winning percentage than Eli Manning. He doesn't throw INTs, but he does have a propensity for taking the sack. He's hardly Nathan Peterman.

Depends on how one defines awful. He is clearly a below average QB who IMO should not be an NFL starter. Consider:

• Career completion percentage is 61.6%
  
• Career YPA is 7.0
  
• Career passer rating is 89.8
  
• Never averaged more than 216.8 passing yards per game in a season, even in his 3+ seasons starting
  
• Never threw more than 20 TD passes and has career TD percentage of 4.0
  
• Career sack percentage is high at 9.4%
  

All of those stats are poor for this era. He has trouble throwing over the middle and is reluctant to do it. He is not good at throwing with anticipation and throwing his targets open. He plays careful and doesn't throw interceptions, which is a plus, but that also contributes to his high sack rate.

These are the reasons that:

1. He couldn't start for his first team
   
2. He was allowed to walk after starting 3 seasons in BUF, despite being only 28
   
3. He could only start 3 games in Cleveland
   
4. He had to sign a backup deal last offseason
   

 

[B Maverick]

Depends on how one defines awful. He is clearly a below average QB who IMO should not be. Consider:

• Career completion percentage is 61.6%
  
• Career YPA is 7.0
  
• Career passer rating is 89.8
  
• Never averaged more than 216.8 passing yards per game in a season, even in his 3+ seasons starting
  
• Never threw more than 20 TD passes and has career TD percentage of 4.0
  
• Career sack percentage is high at 9.4%
  

All of those stats are poor for this era. He has trouble throwing over the middle and is reluctant to do it. He is not good at throwing with anticipation and throwing his targets open. He plays careful and doesn't throw interceptions, which is a plus, but that also contributes to his high sack rate.

These are the reasons that:

1. He couldn't start for his first team
   
2. He was allowed to walk after starting 3 seasons in BUF, despite being only 28
   
3. He could only start 3 games in Cleveland
   
4. He had to sign a backup deal last offseason
   

1) Wasn't he behind SB winner Joe Flacco?  As bad as Flacco could be he was their guy.  A dev qb wasnt going to get a shot there.

2) His stats in Buff aren't awful.  62.6% comp %,  51/16 TD to Int.  2950 yards per year. As a bridge guy not a bad place to start while LAC rebuild's the line. Didn't they make the playoffs too?

3) Anything in Cle should be ignored due to HUE plus the fact his tenure there was going to be short with the #1 overall pick ready to start.  

4) Ok.

Didn't realize 60% was considered bad.  for last season 62.6 would be 21st, just behind Rodgers and Goff.  in 2017 he had a 61.3% comp % tied for 20 with Goff and Russel Wilson

 

[BoltNlava]

1) Wasn't he behind SB winner Joe Flacco?  As bad as Flacco could be he was their guy.  A dev qb wasnt going to get a shot there.

2) His stats in Buff aren't awful.  62.6% comp %,  51/16 TD to Int.  2950 yards per year. As a bridge guy not a bad place to start while LAC rebuild's the line. Didn't they make the playoffs too?

3) Anything in Cle should be ignored due to HUE plus the fact his tenure there was going to be short with the #1 overall pick ready to start.  

4) Ok.

Didn't realize 60% was considered bad.  for last season 62.6 would be 21st, just behind Rodgers and Goff.  in 2017 he had a 61.3% comp % tied for 20 with Goff and Russel Wilson

#2 - Rebuild the line? LoL...we'll see. O line and D line have been rebuilding for what seems like forever. You must realize that a lineman on offense is not a splash play. Right? Need to fill the EMPTY seats at the new digs. That is priority #1. Where is Brian Bosworth when you need him?  

 

[B Maverick]

#2 - Rebuild the line? LoL...we'll see. O line and D line have been rebuilding for what seems like forever. You must realize that a lineman on offense is not a splash play. Right? Need to fill the EMPTY seats at the new digs. That is priority #1. Where is Brian Bosworth when you need him?  

 Have they ever really addressed either line?

Yes a QB is needed. No, I'm not saying Tyrod is the answer.  And any qb who can actually move would help the line look better then with the statue of Rivers behind it. 

 

[BoltNlava]

 Have they ever really addressed either line?

Yes a QB is needed. No, I'm not saying Tyrod is the answer.  And any qb who can actually move would help the line look better then with the statue of Rivers behind it. 

So all the Tyrod isn't terrible stats- means you know he's not the answer? Didn't pick that up in your post. my mistake. 

 

[Tau837]

1) Wasn't he behind SB winner Joe Flacco?  As bad as Flacco could be he was their guy.  A dev qb wasnt going to get a shot there.

2) His stats in Buff aren't awful.  62.6% comp %,  51/16 TD to Int.  2950 yards per year. As a bridge guy not a bad place to start while LAC rebuild's the line. Didn't they make the playoffs too?

3) Anything in Cle should be ignored due to HUE plus the fact his tenure there was going to be short with the #1 overall pick ready to start.  

4) Ok.

Didn't realize 60% was considered bad.  for last season 62.6 would be 21st, just behind Rodgers and Goff.  in 2017 he had a 61.3% comp % tied for 20 with Goff and Russel Wilson

Understand the BAL/Flacco situation.

With regard to Buffalo, he started there for 3 years, and in his 3rd season there, they made the playoffs. And Buffalo was so impressed, they followed that season by trading him - their 28 year old QB who had started the previous 3 seasons - to Cleveland for a third round pick, and he was pretty shortly done as a NFL starting QB. He backed up Mayfield for all but 3 games in 2018 and Rivers for all of 2019.

That path tells you all you need to know about his current worth as a NFL starting QB. If he was a starting caliber guy, he would not have been a backup last season when he was an unrestricted free agent any team could have signed.

 

[B Maverick]

So all the Tyrod isn't terrible stats- means you know he's not the answer? Didn't pick that up in your post. my mistake. 

I guess I wasn't clear.  He's not the long term answer at QB.  And I referred to him as a bridge QB as they look to find their franchise qb either this year or next.  And his stats show he wouldn't be a bad option for a year or two while they work out the oline and get their guy.

 

[B Maverick]

Understand the BAL/Flacco situation.

With regard to Buffalo, he started there for 3 years, and in his 3rd season there, they made the playoffs. And Buffalo was so impressed, they followed that season by trading him - their 28 year old QB who had started the previous 3 seasons - to Cleveland for a third round pick, and he was pretty shortly done as a NFL starting QB. He backed up Mayfield for all but 3 games in 2018 and Rivers for all of 2019.

That path tells you all you need to know about his current worth as a NFL starting QB. If he was a starting caliber guy, he would not have been a backup last season when he was an unrestricted free agent any team could have signed.

And the Bills drafted Josh Allen, who they believed could be a franchise qb.

You seem to act like I said Tyrod could be the franchise guy and the future of their QB position.  All I said is he is not awful as a guy who can start while they find their Franchise QB (maybe thats this draft, maybe its next) and fix their offensive line issues.  You claimed he was awful.  His stats in Buffalo when he got a chance to start, don't agree.   

 

[BoltNlava]

I guess I wasn't clear.  He's not the long term answer at QB.  And I referred to him as a bridge QB as they look to find their franchise qb either this year or next.  And his stats show he wouldn't be a bad option for a year or two while they work out the oline and get their guy.

Don't you mean mobile QB? Look man, whatever. They are LA's problem now. 

 

[Tau837]

And the Bills drafted Josh Allen, who they believed could be a franchise qb.

You seem to act like I said Tyrod could be the franchise guy and the future of their QB position.  All I said is he is not awful as a guy who can start while they find their Franchise QB (maybe thats this draft, maybe its next) and fix their offensive line issues.  You claimed he was awful.  His stats in Buffalo when he got a chance to start, don't agree.   

Looking at the same stats as you, I disagree. Tyrod was good in 2015. That was 5 years ago and was his only season of being good. He was a bottom level NFL starter in 2016 and 2017, and then he wasn't a starter any more. And he shouldn't be.

Those 3 years he started in BUF, they were no higher than #28 in passing yards. Tyrod is a guy with limited passing ability for an NFL starting QB. There is really no disputing that.

If the Chargers use him as their bridge QB,  during the time he is serving in that role, the Chargers passing offense will be bottom of the NFL level. If you are okay with that, then I guess that explains why you think he is an okay bridge QB. I mean, apparently Lynn and Telesco think the same as you. And I think they are equally wrong, and will be proven wrong. It is wrong to settle for bottom of the NFL level passing game, but that is what they have done.

I'm fine agreeing to disagree about it.  

 

[Despyzer]

Hot new rumor is the Chargers will trade a first and some other high pick (1st to 3rd rounder likely) to the Lions for Stafford. Realizing that nearly everyone hates just about every option out there for the Chargers at QB, I'll be bold and ask what you guys think.