***Official - 2025 Major League Baseball Thread (12 Viewers)

[Don Quixote]

Devers saying that he’ll play wherever the Giants want him to play, and already working on practicing grounders at 1B. Red Sox really messed that one up.

Rafael Devers ready to 'play wherever they want me to play' with Giants after Red Sox positional drama

Devers will DH and play first base, Giants manager Bob Melvin said Tuesday

www.cbssports.com

Hard disagree. Whistling a tune doesn't mean you necessarily love it. He now knows that, in the words of David Ortiz paraphrased, he can be playing somewhere even more "freezing" and more remote if he don't fly right and that cold and remote place forks over the cash.

I did not really get Ortiz’s comments on that, as I was not sure how San Francisco is more freezing than Boston from a meteorological sense. But maybe it was a metaphor I was missing. I don’t think the Red Sox had any choice but to move him based on how the relationship had gone, but I’m also not sure how to read Devers agreeing to play first base 24 hours after the trade as anything other than an FU to Breslow/Henry for how Devers thought they handled things (rightly or wrongly).

 

[rockaction]

I’m also not sure how to read Devers agreeing to play first base 24 hours after the trade as anything other than an FU to Breslow/Henry for how Devers thought they handled things (rightly or wrongly).

Agree with you on both points (about the meteorology of the freezing and the flip off), but I'm not sure that is sufficient to conclude that the Red Sox messed anything up (even though they've publicly taken some blame for it). Sometimes people do things out of spite, or because they're happy to be in a new situation, or because they just learned because of the old situation, or for a myriad of reasons that might even be independent of the old situation.

I don't even think Occam's razor lets you conclude that the Sox "messed up." The motive and the previous situation can't really be divined from his current action.

Nothing major, but I don't see how that conclusion follows.

 

[Eephus]

Agree with you on both points (about the meteorology of the freezing and the flip off), but I'm not sure that is sufficient to conclude that the Red Sox messed anything up (even though they've publicly taken some blame for it). Sometimes people do things out of spite, or because they're happy to be in a new situation, or because they just learned because of the old situation, or for a myriad of reasons that might even be independent of the old situation.

I don't even think Occam's razor lets you conclude that the Sox "messed up." The motive and the previous situation can't really be divined from his current action.

Nothing major, but I don't see how that conclusion follows.

Chaim Bloom ran the Sox front office for four years. Breslow is now in year two. Time will tell if the Devers affair defines Breslow like Mookie did to Bloom.

No matter the ultimate outcome, the trade is the kind of aggressive move I love to see as a Giants fan. Buster Posey has a tremendous amount of capital with ownership and the fan base right now. He was always guaranteed a long honeymoon period. It's not really a Farhan kind of deal but I don't know ownership would have allowed Zaidi to take such a big swing. I did find it funny that Farhan's last #1 pick James Tibbs III was dealt away. Thanks Buster for sparing me the future Mr. Tibbs memes.

And as always it's not my money, not now or in the end years of Devers' contract.

 

[-fish-]

Kopech just fell off the mound with the bases loaded to balk in a run.

 

[rockaction]

Agree with you on both points (about the meteorology of the freezing and the flip off), but I'm not sure that is sufficient to conclude that the Red Sox messed anything up (even though they've publicly taken some blame for it). Sometimes people do things out of spite, or because they're happy to be in a new situation, or because they just learned because of the old situation, or for a myriad of reasons that might even be independent of the old situation.

I don't even think Occam's razor lets you conclude that the Sox "messed up." The motive and the previous situation can't really be divined from his current action.

Nothing major, but I don't see how that conclusion follows.

Chaim Bloom ran the Sox front office for four years. Breslow is now in year two. Time will tell if the Devers affair defines Breslow like Mookie did to Bloom.

No matter the ultimate outcome, the trade is the kind of aggressive move I love to see as a Giants fan. Buster Posey has a tremendous amount of capital with ownership and the fan base right now. He was always guaranteed a long honeymoon period. It's not really a Farhan kind of deal but I don't know ownership would have allowed Zaidi to take such a big swing. I did find it funny that Farhan's last #1 pick James Tibbs III was dealt away. Thanks Buster for sparing me the future Mr. Tibbs memes.

And as always it's not my money, not now or in the end years of Devers' contract.

I agree with both you and Don Quixote. I'm happy for the Giants fans on the board that they got a huge bat in their lineup, and I lament Devers' bat not being in the Sox' lineup.

My only contention was Don saying that the Sox messed up in how they handled Devers' situation because Devers has agreed to try at first and DH for the Giants. I'm not sure it would have gone smoothly for the Sox even if they'd told him in advance about Bregman and their desire to have him DH. I just don't know and I don't think we can know. We know they wished they handled that aspect differently, but privately asking him to move to first and his subsequent reaction is another matter, IMO.

I wasn't really talking about the trade to San Francisco. I was limiting it to that part. The Giants and their fans got a huge boon in acquiring Devers, and I think it's right to say it's not your money. That will only affect you in the upcoming years if the owners see it not work out and decide not to take on contracts like that again, but that's down the road and Raffy is right in his prime at 28 (provided he stays in shape).

eta* I think Don is a Nats fan, right? And a general font of baseball knowledge, too.

 

[Don Quixote]

Agree with you on both points (about the meteorology of the freezing and the flip off), but I'm not sure that is sufficient to conclude that the Red Sox messed anything up (even though they've publicly taken some blame for it). Sometimes people do things out of spite, or because they're happy to be in a new situation, or because they just learned because of the old situation, or for a myriad of reasons that might even be independent of the old situation.

I don't even think Occam's razor lets you conclude that the Sox "messed up." The motive and the previous situation can't really be divined from his current action.

Nothing major, but I don't see how that conclusion follows.

Chaim Bloom ran the Sox front office for four years. Breslow is now in year two. Time will tell if the Devers affair defines Breslow like Mookie did to Bloom.

No matter the ultimate outcome, the trade is the kind of aggressive move I love to see as a Giants fan. Buster Posey has a tremendous amount of capital with ownership and the fan base right now. He was always guaranteed a long honeymoon period. It's not really a Farhan kind of deal but I don't know ownership would have allowed Zaidi to take such a big swing. I did find it funny that Farhan's last #1 pick James Tibbs III was dealt away. Thanks Buster for sparing me the future Mr. Tibbs memes.

And as always it's not my money, not now or in the end years of Devers' contract.

I agree with both you and Don Quixote. I'm happy for the Giants fans on the board that they got a huge bat in their lineup, and I lament Devers' bat not being in the Sox' lineup.

My only contention was Don saying that the Sox messed up in how they handled Devers' situation because Devers has agreed to try at first and DH for the Giants. I'm not sure it would have gone smoothly for the Sox even if they'd told him in advance about Bregman and their desire to have him DH. I just don't know and I don't think we can know. We know they wished they handled that aspect differently, but privately asking him to move to first and his subsequent reaction is another matter, IMO.

I wasn't really talking about the trade to San Francisco. I was limiting it to that part. The Giants and their fans got a huge boon in acquiring Devers, and I think it's right to say it's not your money. That will only affect you in the upcoming years if the owners see it not work out and decide not to take on contracts like that again, but that's down the road and Raffy is right in his prime at 28 (provided he stays in shape).

eta* I think Don is a Nats fan, right? And a general font of baseball knowledge, too.

Yeah, I’m a Nats fan. Obviously, I wasn’t in the room where it happened, but it all started with the the Red Sox telling Devers this offseason that he was their third baseman, and then going out and signing Bregman without telling him, which led to to the loss of trust and communication breakdown with the front office. The fact that he is willing to do play 1B for SF now points to it being organizational specific. If there was not that breakdown in the relationship, he’d probably still be in Boston and be in the lineup at 1B.

Sure, Devers let his ego get in the way too, but, if I was a Red Sox fan, I’d be upset if they did do some sort of reassessment of what went wrong in the relationship such that it forced them into needing to trade one of the top 20 hitters in baseball for Kyle Harrison and change. Breslow seemed to even acknowledge the need to assess that in his press conference, by saying that he thinks about if he could have handled the situation better this offseason all the time.

 

[Gally]

I was not sure how San Francisco is more freezing than Boston from a meteorological sense.

In the summer (when baseball is played) I believe that SF is much colder than Boston. It gets bitter cold when the wind kicks up off the bay in SF. Granted in the winter there is no comparison but playing in SF at night can be miserable.

 

[thecatch]

Agree with you on both points (about the meteorology of the freezing and the flip off), but I'm not sure that is sufficient to conclude that the Red Sox messed anything up (even though they've publicly taken some blame for it). Sometimes people do things out of spite, or because they're happy to be in a new situation, or because they just learned because of the old situation, or for a myriad of reasons that might even be independent of the old situation.

I don't even think Occam's razor lets you conclude that the Sox "messed up." The motive and the previous situation can't really be divined from his current action.

Nothing major, but I don't see how that conclusion follows.

Chaim Bloom ran the Sox front office for four years. Breslow is now in year two. Time will tell if the Devers affair defines Breslow like Mookie did to Bloom.

No matter the ultimate outcome, the trade is the kind of aggressive move I love to see as a Giants fan. Buster Posey has a tremendous amount of capital with ownership and the fan base right now. He was always guaranteed a long honeymoon period. It's not really a Farhan kind of deal but I don't know ownership would have allowed Zaidi to take such a big swing. I did find it funny that Farhan's last #1 pick James Tibbs III was dealt away. Thanks Buster for sparing me the future Mr. Tibbs memes.

And as always it's not my money, not now or in the end years of Devers' contract.

I agree with both you and Don Quixote. I'm happy for the Giants fans on the board that they got a huge bat in their lineup, and I lament Devers' bat not being in the Sox' lineup.

My only contention was Don saying that the Sox messed up in how they handled Devers' situation because Devers has agreed to try at first and DH for the Giants. I'm not sure it would have gone smoothly for the Sox even if they'd told him in advance about Bregman and their desire to have him DH. I just don't know and I don't think we can know. We know they wished they handled that aspect differently, but privately asking him to move to first and his subsequent reaction is another matter, IMO.

I wasn't really talking about the trade to San Francisco. I was limiting it to that part. The Giants and their fans got a huge boon in acquiring Devers, and I think it's right to say it's not your money. That will only affect you in the upcoming years if the owners see it not work out and decide not to take on contracts like that again, but that's down the road and Raffy is right in his prime at 28 (provided he stays in shape).

eta* I think Don is a Nats fan, right? And a general font of baseball knowledge, too.

I think the Red Sox did a poor job communicating with the Devers about the Bregman situation. Devers's response was immature, and maybe he would have thrown a fit about it even if he was kept in the loop. But the Red Sox screwed up on the communications front (ironically, the Giants made the some mistake with franchise icon Brandon Crawford during the Correa attempted signing a couple years ago).

 

[Cowboysfan8]

Kopech just fell off the mound with the bases loaded to balk in a run.

I saw that this morning. That was…. Something

 

[thecatch]

Agree with you on both points (about the meteorology of the freezing and the flip off), but I'm not sure that is sufficient to conclude that the Red Sox messed anything up (even though they've publicly taken some blame for it). Sometimes people do things out of spite, or because they're happy to be in a new situation, or because they just learned because of the old situation, or for a myriad of reasons that might even be independent of the old situation.

I don't even think Occam's razor lets you conclude that the Sox "messed up." The motive and the previous situation can't really be divined from his current action.

Nothing major, but I don't see how that conclusion follows.

Chaim Bloom ran the Sox front office for four years. Breslow is now in year two. Time will tell if the Devers affair defines Breslow like Mookie did to Bloom.

No matter the ultimate outcome, the trade is the kind of aggressive move I love to see as a Giants fan. Buster Posey has a tremendous amount of capital with ownership and the fan base right now. He was always guaranteed a long honeymoon period. It's not really a Farhan kind of deal but I don't know ownership would have allowed Zaidi to take such a big swing. I did find it funny that Farhan's last #1 pick James Tibbs III was dealt away. Thanks Buster for sparing me the future Mr. Tibbs memes.

And as always it's not my money, not now or in the end years of Devers' contract.

Ownership gave Zaidi blank checks to get guys worse than Devers. Zaidi suffered from the same problem that afflicts a lot of other nerd GMs, they are petrified to make deals that aren’t either low stakes or one-sided clear wins.

 

[Dickies]

Kopech just fell off the mound with the bases loaded to balk in a run.

I saw that this morning. That was…. Something

Reminds me of my first game at Petco Park where the Padres walked off my Giants on a Santiago Casilla balk. Looked almost identical in form.

 

[Eephus]

Ownership gave Zaidi blank checks to get guys worse than Devers. Zaidi suffered from the same problem that afflicts a lot of other nerd GMs, they are petrified to make deals that aren’t either low stakes or one-sided clear wins.

The Farhan-era Giants mooted a lot of big free agent signings but never were able to land one. The biggest FA contract he handed out was for Jung Hoo Lee, which looks pretty good at the moment. Zaidi made a bunch of low stakes signings trying to eke a bit of value. There were definitely some failures (e.g. Haniger, Stripling, Tom Murphy) but almost all of them were for short contracts that never became a long-term burden on the team's books. Correa's failed physical turned out to be a blessing in disguise.

I don't disagree with your second statement; Zaidi probably wouldn't have traded for Devers because most analytical models consider it as an overpay.

 

[thecatch]

Ownership gave Zaidi blank checks to get guys worse than Devers. Zaidi suffered from the same problem that afflicts a lot of other nerd GMs, they are petrified to make deals that aren’t either low stakes or one-sided clear wins.

The Farhan-era Giants mooted a lot of big free agent signings but never were able to land one. The biggest FA contract he handed out was for Jung Hoo Lee, which looks pretty good at the moment. Zaidi made a bunch of low stakes signings trying to eke a bit of value. There were definitely some failures (e.g. Haniger, Stripling, Tom Murphy) but almost all of them were for short contracts that never became a long-term burden on the team's books. Correa's failed physical turned out to be a blessing in disguise.

Ownership gave Farhan the money to go out and pursue those guys, is my point.

 

[Dickies]

Ownership gave Zaidi blank checks to get guys worse than Devers. Zaidi suffered from the same problem that afflicts a lot of other nerd GMs, they are petrified to make deals that aren’t either low stakes or one-sided clear wins.

The Farhan-era Giants mooted a lot of big free agent signings but never were able to land one. The biggest FA contract he handed out was for Jung Hoo Lee, which looks pretty good at the moment. Zaidi made a bunch of low stakes signings trying to eke a bit of value. There were definitely some failures (e.g. Haniger, Stripling, Tom Murphy) but almost all of them were for short contracts that never became a long-term burden on the team's books. Correa's failed physical turned out to be a blessing in disguise.

I don't disagree with your second statement; Zaidi probably wouldn't have traded for Devers because most analytical models consider it as an overpay.

Getting rid of Hicks' contract automatically makes it a non-overpay in my mind.

 

[dkp993]

Xander Bogarts contract looking like one of the worst in baseball in the last decade (maybe more). That guy from Boston is LONG gone.

 

[Encyclopedia Brown]

Ownership gave Zaidi blank checks to get guys worse than Devers. Zaidi suffered from the same problem that afflicts a lot of other nerd GMs, they are petrified to make deals that aren’t either low stakes or one-sided clear wins.

On the ESPN Sunday night telecast, Jeff Passan made the observation that this deal came about so suddenly and resolutely because the two GM's are former players who understand clubhouse dynamics and players/front office dynamics in a way that the stat guys don't.

It was irreparable between Devers and the Boston front office, and they both knew it.

 

[General Malaise]

Xander Bogarts contract looking like one of the worst in baseball in the last decade (maybe more). That guy from Boston is LONG gone.

Worse than Josh Hamilton and Albert Pujols? The Angels made some insidious decisions with contracts - Xander is worse?

 

[General Malaise]

Patrick Corbin deal was awful. Chris Davis.

 

[Don Quixote]

Xander Bogarts contract looking like one of the worst in baseball in the last decade (maybe more). That guy from Boston is LONG gone.

Worse than Josh Hamilton and Albert Pujols? The Angels made some insidious decisions with contracts - Xander is worse?

Anthony Rendon’s with the Angels even worse than those.

 

[dkp993]

Xander Bogarts contract looking like one of the worst in baseball in the last decade (maybe more). That guy from Boston is LONG gone.

Worse than Josh Hamilton and Albert Pujols? The Angels made some insidious decisions with contracts - Xander is worse?

25 mil a year for a .230 ground out king with zero pop. Oh, and still have 8(9?) years left on the contract. Yeah I’d say worse then those.

 

[Eephus]

Xander Bogarts contract looking like one of the worst in baseball in the last decade (maybe more). That guy from Boston is LONG gone.

Worse than Josh Hamilton and Albert Pujols? The Angels made some insidious decisions with contracts - Xander is worse?

25 mil a year for a .230 ground out king with zero pop. Oh, and still have 8(9?) years left on the contract. Yeah I’d say worse then those.

Bogaerts still provides adequate defense at a key position so he'll bring something to the table that way for the next few years. The end of the contract will be brutal but $25M AAV is basically Willy Adames money.

 

[Dickies]

Xander Bogarts contract looking like one of the worst in baseball in the last decade (maybe more). That guy from Boston is LONG gone.

Worse than Josh Hamilton and Albert Pujols? The Angels made some insidious decisions with contracts - Xander is worse?

Anthony Rendon’s with the Angels even worse than those.

Gonna be hard to be worse than Rendon's contract

 

[dkp993]

Xander Bogarts contract looking like one of the worst in baseball in the last decade (maybe more). That guy from Boston is LONG gone.

Worse than Josh Hamilton and Albert Pujols? The Angels made some insidious decisions with contracts - Xander is worse?

Anthony Rendon’s with the Angels even worse than those.

Gonna be hard to be worse than Rendon's contract

Rendon at least has the injury excuse. X is in the lineup everyday grounding out to short with men on. Every time. Over and over and over again.

 

[Don Quixote]

Patrick Corbin deal was awful.

Corbin was good in 2019, and winning pitcher in game 7 of the World Series. Flags fly forever, at least. He was not good the rest of it, but he ate up some innings in some years where the Nats were not going anywhere anyway.

The one that probably killed the Nats more was Strasburg’s: 7 years, $245 million for a total of eight starts. But if they did not spend the money on him after the World Series year, they probably would have spent it on Rendon instead.

 

[Don Quixote]

Xander Bogarts contract looking like one of the worst in baseball in the last decade (maybe more). That guy from Boston is LONG gone.

Worse than Josh Hamilton and Albert Pujols? The Angels made some insidious decisions with contracts - Xander is worse?

Anthony Rendon’s with the Angels even worse than those.

Gonna be hard to be worse than Rendon's contract

Rendon at least has the injury excuse. X is in the lineup everyday grounding out to short with men on. Every time. Over and over and over again.

Rendon has not been good even when in the lineup. Slugging percentage of .267 last year. And Rendon is making $38 million per year; more than Bogaerts’ $25.

 

[rockaction]

If there was not that breakdown in the relationship, he’d probably still be in Boston and be in the lineup at 1B.

I think your points are fair (and true) and I would say I agree with this comment as your conclusion. I just wouldn't necessarily say that it's the Red Sox fault and they "messed up" with Devers, but that will be the debate for a long time and it's one of opinion, so it's no use beating to death from my end.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Patrick Corbin deal was awful. Chris Davis.

The Orioles will still be paying for that one when your grandkids are drawing Social Security.