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IvanKaramazov said:
adonis said:
IvanKaramazov said:
adonis said:
Obama vows crackdown on energy speculators

By JOHN DUNBAR – 1 hour ago

WASHINGTON (AP) — Sen. Barack Obama on Sunday said as president he would strengthen government oversight of energy traders he blames in large part for the skyrocketing price of oil.
Hopefully this is just election-year politics. I'm sure Obama's smarter than this. One positive thing that I can definitely see coming out of an Obama administration is a sensible energy policy. I hope he doesn't get hung up on crap like this.
You don't think there's any benefit to taking trading off futures markets? Cut down on much of the speculation?I'll admit that I don't know much about that aspect of it, but i've heard many people suggest that oil not be traded on the futures market anymore. Thoughts?
I am in no way an expert on crude oil markets. That said:1. Commodities markets generally work pretty well, including their respective futures markets. We know that the demand for oil is up significantly thanks to development in formerly third-world countries like China and India. Considering that the supply of oil is fairly inelastic in the short run and controlled by a cartel in the longer run, it's not surprising at all that oil prices have gone up. I know that some people who know more about this industry than I do think that speculation has played a role in driving up prices, but my sense is that those folks are the minority. There are good fundamental reasons for rising oil prices, and it would be a bad thing to tamper with markets if they're pricing this good efficiently (or close to it).
I'm not expert myself, but I can see that the way prices have gone lately, with little change in supply or demand, has been crazy and there are a lot of people making money off of rising costs. If there is market manipulation running up prices, these people are fleecing the american public for personal gain and I think it should be looked at, and if anything improper is going on, there should be steps taken to remedy the situation, whether that's just going after the people involved, or changing the way oil is traded, or something else, but something needs to be done to prevent greedy people from taking advantage of the american people.
2. Let's say for the sake of argument that high oil prices really are due mainly to speculators. So what? If you think that global warming is a big deal, or if you're an energy independence hawk, or whatever, you should be happy about high oil prices since they're now pushing people toward more efficient vehicles and spurring demands for the development of alternative energy. Obama can't say this because public sentiment, but I'm guessing he recognizes that high oil prices are a good thing given his concerns about the environment and alternative energy. His advisors almost certainly think that way.

It's not internally consistent to talk about how we need to ween ourselves off oil and then turn around in the next breath and complain about high oil and gasoline prices. We all understand why politicians are forced to do this sort of thing, but I would be willing to be that neither McCain nor Obama would really follow through on the populist "Let's get gas prices down" stuff that they're saying now. I think each is serious about the environmental part and unserious about the oil-is-too-expensive part.
It's not inconsistent to say that people should not be artificially inflating the price of oil, while at the same time say that we need to find alternatives to oil and cutback on our consumption. Higher oil prices certainly drive up public support for conservation, but I don't think it's accurate to say that those in favor of conservation should be in favor of any method that brings about a reduction in oil usage. Market manipulation should not be tolerated, regardless of the potentially beneficial shift in public sentiment that might motivate people to conserve more.

 
I'm not expert myself, but I can see that the way prices have gone lately, with little change in supply or demand, has been crazy and there are a lot of people making money off of rising costs. If there is market manipulation running up prices, these people are fleecing the american public for personal gain and I think it should be looked at, and if anything improper is going on, there should be steps taken to remedy the situation, whether that's just going after the people involved, or changing the way oil is traded, or something else, but something needs to be done to prevent greedy people from taking advantage of the american people.
You honestly think that there's a cabal of people who are rigging the crude oil market (aside from OPEC)? Okay.
It's not inconsistent to say that people should not be artificially inflating the price of oil, while at the same time say that we need to find alternatives to oil and cutback on our consumption. Higher oil prices certainly drive up public support for conservation, but I don't think it's accurate to say that those in favor of conservation should be in favor of any method that brings about a reduction in oil usage. Market manipulation should not be tolerated, regardless of the potentially beneficial shift in public sentiment that might motivate people to conserve more.
The whole point of carbon taxes or a cap and trade system is to manipulate energy markets and to raise the price of certain energy sources, such as oil. It's just that in that case it happens to be the government doing the manipulating as opposed to futures traders (who aren't really "manipulating" anything, but who are just trying to make money by betting that oil prices will rise in the future). The result is the same, and it's one that you should applaud.
 
I'm not expert myself, but I can see that the way prices have gone lately, with little change in supply or demand, has been crazy and there are a lot of people making money off of rising costs. If there is market manipulation running up prices, these people are fleecing the american public for personal gain and I think it should be looked at, and if anything improper is going on, there should be steps taken to remedy the situation, whether that's just going after the people involved, or changing the way oil is traded, or something else, but something needs to be done to prevent greedy people from taking advantage of the american people.
You honestly think that there's a cabal of people who are rigging the crude oil market (aside from OPEC)? Okay.
:thumbup: If Enron could do it with electricity...
 
adonis said:
IvanKaramazov said:
adonis said:
Obama vows crackdown on energy speculators

By JOHN DUNBAR – 1 hour ago

WASHINGTON (AP) — Sen. Barack Obama on Sunday said as president he would strengthen government oversight of energy traders he blames in large part for the skyrocketing price of oil.
Hopefully this is just election-year politics. I'm sure Obama's smarter than this. One positive thing that I can definitely see coming out of an Obama administration is a sensible energy policy. I hope he doesn't get hung up on crap like this.
You don't think there's any benefit to taking trading off futures markets? Cut down on much of the speculation?I'll admit that I don't know much about that aspect of it, but i've heard many people suggest that oil not be traded on the futures market anymore. Thoughts?
Oil should definitely be traded on the futures market. That's how we'll know how scarce it is.In a free market, there's no such thing as a 'shortage.' Quantity supplied equals quantity demanded due to the price mechanism. (I know oil isn't a free market. OPEC restricts output. But a futures market will alleviate the bad effects associated with that restriction.)

There was a magazine article on the oil shortage at some point that started out something like: "Imagine you're driving on your way to work and, at 8:45 on a Tuesday morning, that's when we run out of oil. Your car runs out of gas. There's none left at the station. Everyone else is in the same position."

An economist reading that article called it "naive price theory" (or "naive economics"). We're not going to suddenly run out without warning. The reason we won't is that pricing (absent price controls, etc.) will always signal scarcity and give us an accurate warning about how much we have left. If market participants -- people willing to put their money where their mouth is, which means they probably know what they're doing -- predict that we'll run out in X years (at the current rate of consumption), the futures market will work to reflect that knowledge in current prices. The futures market is what smooths out prices so that instead of having gas be $4/gallon today . . . and then all of a sudden infinitely expensive tomorrow (when there's none left), the price will be relatively smooth, moving up or down when new information becomes available, but always reflecting long-term availability and not just short-term supply.

And the really great thing about having the market signal scarcity through pricing is that it causes people to behave more efficiently in their daily lives.

As gas prices have increased, people have driven fewer miles, taken more public transportation, looked for housing nearer to their jobs (or vice versa), and have in other ways decreased their fuel consumption. Certain activists and politicians have been telling people to carpool or take the bus for years, or to buy smaller cars instead of hummers, but no activist or politician has ever been nearly as successful as effecting that kind of change as the market has recently been.

I think Obama understands this; if he doesn't, his advisers surely do. So I hope with Ivan that any talk that "energy traders" are part of the problem rather than a part -- a huge part -- of the solution is just election-year politics.

(BTW, energy traders cannot make money by causing prices to increase incorrectly. The way traders cause energy prices to increase is by buying future positions long -- not selling short. If oil isn't actually scarce, or about to become scarce, then prices won't increase in the long term and the traders who bought long will lose money rather than making money. The way to make money in any futures market is to make bets that signal accurate information rather than inaccurate information. Just like the stock market, or sports betting, or any other kind of market action.)

 
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I'm not expert myself, but I can see that the way prices have gone lately, with little change in supply or demand, has been crazy and there are a lot of people making money off of rising costs. If there is market manipulation running up prices, these people are fleecing the american public for personal gain and I think it should be looked at, and if anything improper is going on, there should be steps taken to remedy the situation, whether that's just going after the people involved, or changing the way oil is traded, or something else, but something needs to be done to prevent greedy people from taking advantage of the american people.
You honestly think that there's a cabal of people who are rigging the crude oil market (aside from OPEC)? Okay.
Well, I don't think its necessarily being rigged, but with the influx of capital into commodity funds, indexes, and ETFs, I don't think its far fetched to say the price is higher than it would be without speculators. Having said that, much like ANWR drilling or drilling on the continental shelf, I don't think such activity has a huge overall affect on price (since the futures market is a zero-sum market between buyers and sellers)...somewhere between 5-20% overall. Yeah, would it bring price down some, sure, but in the end it may not amount to much especially since demand destruction wouldn't be as large. Unlike the electricity market the oil market is worldwide and any country holding supply back now is only doing so because they believe oil is going higher.
 
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adonis said:
IvanKaramazov said:
adonis said:
Obama vows crackdown on energy speculators

By JOHN DUNBAR – 1 hour ago

WASHINGTON (AP) — Sen. Barack Obama on Sunday said as president he would strengthen government oversight of energy traders he blames in large part for the skyrocketing price of oil.
Hopefully this is just election-year politics. I'm sure Obama's smarter than this. One positive thing that I can definitely see coming out of an Obama administration is a sensible energy policy. I hope he doesn't get hung up on crap like this.
You don't think there's any benefit to taking trading off futures markets? Cut down on much of the speculation?I'll admit that I don't know much about that aspect of it, but i've heard many people suggest that oil not be traded on the futures market anymore. Thoughts?
Oil should definitely be traded on the futures market. That's how we'll know how scarce it is.In a free market, there's no such thing as a 'shortage.' Quantity supplied equals quantity demanded due to the price mechanism. (I know oil isn't a free market. OPEC restricts output. But a futures market will alleviate the bad effects associated with that restriction.)

There was an article on the oil shortage at some point that started out something like: "Imagine you're driving on your way to work and, at 8:45 on a Tuesday morning, that's when we run out of oil. Your car runs out of gas. There's none left at the station. Everyone else is in the same position."

An economist reading that article called it "naive price theory" (or "naive economics"). We're not going to suddenly run out without warning. The reason we won't is that pricing (absent price controls, etc.) will always signal scarcity and give us an accurate warning about how much we have left. If market participants -- people willing to put their money where their mouth is, which means they probably know what they're doing -- predict that we'll run out in X years (at the current rate of consumption), the futures market will work to reflect that knowledge in current prices. The futures market is what smooths out prices so that instead of having gas be $4/gallon today . . . and then all of a sudden infinitely expensive tomorrow (when there's none left), the price will be relatively smooth, moving up or down when new information becomes available, but always reflecting long-term availability and not just short-term supply.

And the really great thing about having the market signal scarcity through pricing is that it causes people to behave more efficiently in their daily lives.

As gas prices have increased, people have driven fewer miles, taken more public transportation, looked for housing nearer to their jobs (or vice versa), and have in other ways decreased their fuel consumption. Certain activists and politicians have been telling people to carpool or take the bus for years, or to buy smaller cars instead of hummers, but no activist or politician has ever been nearly as successful as effecting that kind of change as the market has recently been.

I think Obama understands this; if he doesn't, his advisers surely do. So I hope with Ivan that any talk that "energy traders" are part of the problem rather than a part -- a huge part -- of the solution is just election-year politics.

(BTW, energy cannot make money by causing prices to increase incorrectly. The way traders cause energy prices to increase is by buying future positions long -- not selling short. If oil isn't actually scarce, or about to become scarce, then prices won't increase in the long term and the traders who bought long will lose money rather than making money. The way to make money in any futures market is to make bets that signal accurate information rather than inaccurate information. Just like the stock market, or sports betting, or any other kind of market action.)
There's one problem...the energy markets are not regulated. The more I read about the Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000 ( see H.R. 5660, H.R.4577, S.3283 of the 106th Congress), the less I like it. It seems several versions of this bill never made it out of committee, but the final version that passed was added to an 11,000 page appropraitions bill on the last day of the second session of the 106th Congress (December 15, 2000.) There was no debate or discussion. Here's what wikipedia says (accuracy re: Phil Gramm/Enron is debatable, but briefly describes CFMA)
Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000

The Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000 or CFMA (Public Law 106–554, §1(a)(5) [H.R. 5660], December 21, 2000, 114 Stat. 2763, 2763A–365, 7 U.S.C. § 1), was passed by the United States Congress and signed by President Bill Clinton in December 2000 in large part to allow for the creation of U.S. exchanges for the listing of a new sort of derivative security, the single-stock future.

The "Enron Loophole"

Main article: Enron Loophole

The CFMA has received criticism for the so-called "Enron Loophole," 7 U.S.C. §2(h)(3) and (g), which exempts most over-the-counter energy trades and trading on electronic energy commodity markets. The "loophole" was drafted by Enron Lobbyists working with senator Phil Gramm [1] seeking a deregulated atmosphere for their new experiment, "Enron On-line"[citation needed].

The legislation was signed by President Bill Clinton in December 2000 to allow for the creation, for U.S. exchanges, of a new kind of derivative security, the single-stock future.

The prohibition on single-stock futures and narrow-based indices that had been in effect until the passage of this act was known as the Shad-Johnson Accord because it was first announced in 1982, as part of a jurisdictional pact between John S.R. Shad, then chairman of the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission and Phil Johnson, then chairman of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission.
 
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/20...obamas-the.html

Rove: Obama's the Guy at the Country Club Holding a Martini Making Snide Comments About Everyone Else

June 23, 2008 1:36 PM

ABC News' Christianne Klein reports that at a breakfast with Republican insiders at the Capitol Hill Club this morning, former White House senior aide Karl Rove referred to Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois, as "coolly arrogant."

"Even if you never met him, you know this guy," Rove said, per Christianne Klein. "He's the guy at the country club with the beautiful date, holding a martini and a cigarette that stands against the wall and makes snide comments about everyone who passes by."
:lmao: :shrug: :lmao:
 
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/20...obamas-the.html

Rove: Obama's the Guy at the Country Club Holding a Martini Making Snide Comments About Everyone Else

June 23, 2008 1:36 PM

ABC News' Christianne Klein reports that at a breakfast with Republican insiders at the Capitol Hill Club this morning, former White House senior aide Karl Rove referred to Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois, as "coolly arrogant."

"Even if you never met him, you know this guy," Rove said, per Christianne Klein. "He's the guy at the country club with the beautiful date, holding a martini and a cigarette that stands against the wall and makes snide comments about everyone who passes by."
:confused: :rolleyes: :excited:
That sounds like me. Must be why I like Obama.
 
Obama vows crackdown on energy speculators

By JOHN DUNBAR – 1 hour ago

WASHINGTON (AP) — Sen. Barack Obama on Sunday said as president he would strengthen government oversight of energy traders he blames in large part for the skyrocketing price of oil.
(I know it's the wrong thread, but) McCain is joining the insanity...:
This past Thursday, Mr. McCain came close to advocating a form of industrial policy, saying, "I'm very angry, frankly, at the oil companies not only because of the obscene profits they've made, but their failure to invest in alternate energy."

And Karl Rove, of all people, called him on it:
But oil and gas companies report that they have invested heavily in alternative energy. Out of the $46 billion spent researching alternative energy in North America from 2000 to 2005, $12 billion came from oil and gas companies, making the industry one of the nation's largest backers of wind and solar power, biofuels, lithium-ion batteries and fuel-cell technology.

Such investments, however, are not as important as money spent on technologies that help find and extract more oil. Because oil companies invested in innovation and technology, they are now tapping reserves that were formerly thought to be unrecoverable. Maybe we are all better off when oil companies invest in what they know, not what they don't.

And do we really want the government deciding how profits should be invested? If so, should Microsoft be forced to invest in Linux-based software or McDonald's in weight-loss research?

Mr. McCain's angry statement shows a lack of understanding of the insights of Joseph Schumpeter, the 20th century economist who explained that capitalism is inherently unstable because a "perennial gale of creative destruction" is brought on by entrepreneurs who create new goods, markets and processes. The entrepreneur is "the pivot on which everything turns," Schumpeter argued, and "proceeds by competitively destroying old businesses."

Most dramatic change comes from new businesses, not old ones. Buggy whip makers did not create the auto industry. Railroads didn't create the airplane. Even when established industries help create new ones, old-line firms are often not as nimble as new ones. IBM helped give rise to personal computers, but didn't see the importance of software and ceded that part of the business to young upstarts who founded Microsoft.

So why should Mr. McCain expect oil and gas companies to lead the way in developing alternative energy? As with past technological change, new enterprises will likely be the drivers of alternative energy innovation.

 
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I'm not very educated on the regulation of oil and energy markets. On the surface, I tend to agree with IK and MT in allowing the market to determine the value of oil. But I keep reading/hearing arguments about how $50-70 of the price of oil is a speculative bubble that is the result of the Enron loophole referenced above.

So would closing the loophole deflate the bubble? Or will the demand decrease that's beginning to show up as consumers change their spending habits correct the market itself?

 
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/20...obamas-the.html

Rove: Obama's the Guy at the Country Club Holding a Martini Making Snide Comments About Everyone Else

June 23, 2008 1:36 PM

ABC News' Christianne Klein reports that at a breakfast with Republican insiders at the Capitol Hill Club this morning, former White House senior aide Karl Rove referred to Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois, as "coolly arrogant."

"Even if you never met him, you know this guy," Rove said, per Christianne Klein. "He's the guy at the country club with the beautiful date, holding a martini and a cigarette that stands against the wall and makes snide comments about everyone who passes by."
:coffee: :drive: :goodposting:
That sounds like me. Must be why I like Obama.
No kidding. Rove just described 90% of FBGs, me included. No wonder Obama is so popular around here.
 
Obama Suggests That Female Clinton Supporters Will "Get Over It"

Obama Said Women Will Realize The Differences Between John McCain And Himself, Which "Would Help Them Get Over It." "Obama agreed that a lot of work needs to be done to heal the Democratic Party, and that he hoped the Clinton supporters in the room would help as much as possible. According to Rep. Yvette Clarke, D-N.Y., Obama then said, 'However, I need to make a decision in the next few months as to how I manage that since I'm running against John McCain, which takes a lot of time. If women take a moment to realize that on every issue important to women, John McCain is not in their corner, that would help them get over it.'" (Jake Tapper and Kate Snow, "Sparks Fly At Black Caucus Meeting," ABC News, www.abcnews.go.com, 6/20/08)

Rep. Diane Watson (D-CA) To Obama: "Don't Use That Terminology." "Rep. Diane Watson, D-Calif., a longtime Clinton supporter, did not like those last three words - 'Get over it.' She found them dismissive, off-putting. 'Don't use that terminology,' Watson told Obama." (Jake Tapper and Kate Snow, "Sparks Fly At Black Caucus Meeting," ABC News, www.abcnews.go.com, 6/20/08)

 
I'm not very educated on the regulation of oil and energy markets. On the surface, I tend to agree with IK and MT in allowing the market to determine the value of oil. But I keep reading/hearing arguments about how $50-70 of the price of oil is a speculative bubble that is the result of the Enron loophole referenced above.So would closing the loophole deflate the bubble? Or will the demand decrease that's beginning to show up as consumers change their spending habits correct the market itself?
If you think that oil prices are being driven mainly by market fundamentals, then there's very little the US government could possibly do to reduce oil prices through regulatory changes. I'm also skeptical that allowing for drilling either off-shore or in ANWR would matter much because that's a long way off and not big on global scale (this is a global market, remember). I've pretty much come around to the view that we need something besides oil. I think the next administration, whether it's McCain or Obama, will end up being the first seriously to pursue alternative energy sources.
 
Obama Suggests That Female Clinton Supporters Will "Get Over It"

Obama Said Women Will Realize The Differences Between John McCain And Himself, Which "Would Help Them Get Over It." "Obama agreed that a lot of work needs to be done to heal the Democratic Party, and that he hoped the Clinton supporters in the room would help as much as possible. According to Rep. Yvette Clarke, D-N.Y., Obama then said, 'However, I need to make a decision in the next few months as to how I manage that since I'm running against John McCain, which takes a lot of time. If women take a moment to realize that on every issue important to women, John McCain is not in their corner, that would help them get over it.'" (Jake Tapper and Kate Snow, "Sparks Fly At Black Caucus Meeting," ABC News, www.abcnews.go.com, 6/20/08)

Rep. Diane Watson (D-CA) To Obama: "Don't Use That Terminology." "Rep. Diane Watson, D-Calif., a longtime Clinton supporter, did not like those last three words - 'Get over it.' She found them dismissive, off-putting. 'Don't use that terminology,' Watson told Obama." (Jake Tapper and Kate Snow, "Sparks Fly At Black Caucus Meeting," ABC News, www.abcnews.go.com, 6/20/08)
Could you please come up with something that isn't straight from the GOP?They Said It!: Obama Suggests That Female Clinton Supporters Will "Get Over It"

A Product Of The RNC Research Department

 
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Obama Suggests That Female Clinton Supporters Will "Get Over It" Obama Said Women Will Realize The Differences Between John McCain And Himself, Which "Would Help Them Get Over It." "Obama agreed that a lot of work needs to be done to heal the Democratic Party, and that he hoped the Clinton supporters in the room would help as much as possible. According to Rep. Yvette Clarke, D-N.Y., Obama then said, 'However, I need to make a decision in the next few months as to how I manage that since I'm running against John McCain, which takes a lot of time. If women take a moment to realize that on every issue important to women, John McCain is not in their corner, that would help them get over it.'" (Jake Tapper and Kate Snow, "Sparks Fly At Black Caucus Meeting," ABC News, www.abcnews.go.com, 6/20/08) Rep. Diane Watson (D-CA) To Obama: "Don't Use That Terminology." "Rep. Diane Watson, D-Calif., a longtime Clinton supporter, did not like those last three words - 'Get over it.' She found them dismissive, off-putting. 'Don't use that terminology,' Watson told Obama." (Jake Tapper and Kate Snow, "Sparks Fly At Black Caucus Meeting," ABC News, www.abcnews.go.com, 6/20/08)
:popcorn:He's right. Female voters who lean Democratic will end up voting for Obama in the November. They will, in fact, get over it. I've never heard of Diane Watson before, but she doesn't sound like somebody who we should put a lot of stock in.
 
Obama Suggests That Female Clinton Supporters Will "Get Over It"

Obama Said Women Will Realize The Differences Between John McCain And Himself, Which "Would Help Them Get Over It." "Obama agreed that a lot of work needs to be done to heal the Democratic Party, and that he hoped the Clinton supporters in the room would help as much as possible. According to Rep. Yvette Clarke, D-N.Y., Obama then said, 'However, I need to make a decision in the next few months as to how I manage that since I'm running against John McCain, which takes a lot of time. If women take a moment to realize that on every issue important to women, John McCain is not in their corner, that would help them get over it.'" (Jake Tapper and Kate Snow, "Sparks Fly At Black Caucus Meeting," ABC News, www.abcnews.go.com, 6/20/08)

Rep. Diane Watson (D-CA) To Obama: "Don't Use That Terminology." "Rep. Diane Watson, D-Calif., a longtime Clinton supporter, did not like those last three words - 'Get over it.' She found them dismissive, off-putting. 'Don't use that terminology,' Watson told Obama." (Jake Tapper and Kate Snow, "Sparks Fly At Black Caucus Meeting," ABC News, www.abcnews.go.com, 6/20/08)
Here's the entire article, cited by the GOP:
Sparks Fly at Black Caucus Meeting

Just What Was Said Between the Presumptive Democratic Nominee and Clinton-Supporting Congresswoman?

A Thursday afternoon meeting between Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., and other members of the Congressional Black Caucus grew tense and emotional for a moment -- perhaps illustrating that weeks after Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., suspended her presidential campaign, some nerves remain frayed.

Most of the meeting was cordial, and after a presentation by Obama's pollster, many members of the CBC had nothing but pleasant exchanges with the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee.

But not everyone.

Sources at the meeting said that Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee, D-Texas, a Clinton supporter, expressed the desire that Obama and his campaign would reach out the millions of women still aggrieved about what happened in the campaign and still disappointed that Clinton lost.

Obama agreed that a lot of work needs to be done to heal the Democratic Party, and that he hoped the Clinton supporters in the room would help as much as possible.

According to Rep. Yvette Clarke, D-N.Y., Obama then said, "However, I need to make a decision in the next few months as to how I manage that since I'm running against John McCain, which takes a lot of time. If women take a moment to realize that on every issue important to women, John McCain is not in their corner, that would help them get over it."

Rep. Diane Watson, D-Calif., a longtime Clinton supporter, did not like those last three words -- "Get over it." She found them dismissive, off-putting.

"Don't use that terminology," Watson told Obama.

Clarke did not react the same way.

"I, personally, as a Hillary supporter, did not take that as something distasteful," Clarke said. "Nothing like that."

But, Clarke said, Watson "latched on to those three words."

In Clarke's view, Watson thought Obama had just told her to "get over it." She didn't appreciate that, and she told him so and emphasized that it was a heated campaign and lot of healing remains to be done.

"I agree," Obama said. "There's healing on both sides."

Obama then said two sources at the meeting said that he'd held his tongue many times during the campaign against Clinton in the interest of party unity and sensitivity. Clinton and her allies had suggested he was a Muslim, had said he wasn't qualified to be president.
Not quite the same story through GOP filters, is it?
 
Obama Suggests That Female Clinton Supporters Will "Get Over It"

Obama Said Women Will Realize The Differences Between John McCain And Himself, Which "Would Help Them Get Over It." "Obama agreed that a lot of work needs to be done to heal the Democratic Party, and that he hoped the Clinton supporters in the room would help as much as possible. According to Rep. Yvette Clarke, D-N.Y., Obama then said, 'However, I need to make a decision in the next few months as to how I manage that since I'm running against John McCain, which takes a lot of time. If women take a moment to realize that on every issue important to women, John McCain is not in their corner, that would help them get over it.'" (Jake Tapper and Kate Snow, "Sparks Fly At Black Caucus Meeting," ABC News, www.abcnews.go.com, 6/20/08)

Rep. Diane Watson (D-CA) To Obama: "Don't Use That Terminology." "Rep. Diane Watson, D-Calif., a longtime Clinton supporter, did not like those last three words - 'Get over it.' She found them dismissive, off-putting. 'Don't use that terminology,' Watson told Obama." (Jake Tapper and Kate Snow, "Sparks Fly At Black Caucus Meeting," ABC News, www.abcnews.go.com, 6/20/08)
Here's the entire article, cited by the GOP:
Sparks Fly at Black Caucus Meeting

Just What Was Said Between the Presumptive Democratic Nominee and Clinton-Supporting Congresswoman?

A Thursday afternoon meeting between Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., and other members of the Congressional Black Caucus grew tense and emotional for a moment -- perhaps illustrating that weeks after Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., suspended her presidential campaign, some nerves remain frayed.

Most of the meeting was cordial, and after a presentation by Obama's pollster, many members of the CBC had nothing but pleasant exchanges with the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee.

But not everyone.

Sources at the meeting said that Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee, D-Texas, a Clinton supporter, expressed the desire that Obama and his campaign would reach out the millions of women still aggrieved about what happened in the campaign and still disappointed that Clinton lost.

Obama agreed that a lot of work needs to be done to heal the Democratic Party, and that he hoped the Clinton supporters in the room would help as much as possible.

According to Rep. Yvette Clarke, D-N.Y., Obama then said, "However, I need to make a decision in the next few months as to how I manage that since I'm running against John McCain, which takes a lot of time. If women take a moment to realize that on every issue important to women, John McCain is not in their corner, that would help them get over it."

Rep. Diane Watson, D-Calif., a longtime Clinton supporter, did not like those last three words -- "Get over it." She found them dismissive, off-putting.

"Don't use that terminology," Watson told Obama.

Clarke did not react the same way.

"I, personally, as a Hillary supporter, did not take that as something distasteful," Clarke said. "Nothing like that."

But, Clarke said, Watson "latched on to those three words."

In Clarke's view, Watson thought Obama had just told her to "get over it." She didn't appreciate that, and she told him so and emphasized that it was a heated campaign and lot of healing remains to be done.

"I agree," Obama said. "There's healing on both sides."

Obama then said two sources at the meeting said that he'd held his tongue many times during the campaign against Clinton in the interest of party unity and sensitivity. Clinton and her allies had suggested he was a Muslim, had said he wasn't qualified to be president.
Not quite the same story through GOP filters, is it?

Pretty much just underlines what most of us have known for months. Gopher State is insanely worried about Obama becoming president.Or maybe Gopher State is just insane.

 
I'm not very educated on the regulation of oil and energy markets. On the surface, I tend to agree with IK and MT in allowing the market to determine the value of oil. But I keep reading/hearing arguments about how $50-70 of the price of oil is a speculative bubble that is the result of the Enron loophole referenced above.

So would closing the loophole deflate the bubble? Or will the demand decrease that's beginning to show up as consumers change their spending habits correct the market itself?
If you think that oil prices are being driven mainly by market fundamentals, then there's very little the US government could possibly do to reduce oil prices through regulatory changes. I'm also skeptical that allowing for drilling either off-shore or in ANWR would matter much because that's a long way off and not big on global scale (this is a global market, remember). I've pretty much come around to the view that we need something besides oil. I think the next administration, whether it's McCain or Obama, will end up being the first seriously to pursue alternative energy sources.
But that's the tough question, isn't it? How do we know if it's market fundamentals or wild speculation that is driving $140 oil? Will closing the loophole eliminate a substantial amount of speculative money bringing prices back in line with fundamentals?
 
I'm not very educated on the regulation of oil and energy markets. On the surface, I tend to agree with IK and MT in allowing the market to determine the value of oil. But I keep reading/hearing arguments about how $50-70 of the price of oil is a speculative bubble that is the result of the Enron loophole referenced above.

So would closing the loophole deflate the bubble? Or will the demand decrease that's beginning to show up as consumers change their spending habits correct the market itself?
If you think that oil prices are being driven mainly by market fundamentals, then there's very little the US government could possibly do to reduce oil prices through regulatory changes. I'm also skeptical that allowing for drilling either off-shore or in ANWR would matter much because that's a long way off and not big on global scale (this is a global market, remember). I've pretty much come around to the view that we need something besides oil. I think the next administration, whether it's McCain or Obama, will end up being the first seriously to pursue alternative energy sources.
there's also the issue that a lot of commodity trading is going abroad, so even if you close the loophole and/or kack up margin requirement in an attept to reign in speculators, it's iffy at best if it would have any long term effect. Short-term, sure it would, as these are huge markets so there would be some dislocation, but places like International Commodity Exchange, Dubai, London, and "lessor" lights like Iran are chomping at the bit to take up any trading (or speculation) slack. Much like the influence of the Fed waning fighting inflation in the new world of international capital movements, there's really not much anyone can do short-term and long term is going to have to be handled by increasing alternative supplies and decreasing demand. Thankfully, there are plenty of rich, intelligent people willing to throw huge amounts of money at the problem (guys like Branson, the Google guys, the Kleinwort, Perkins guys, etc.).Having said all that I think it's inevitable that these oil companies are going to see some windfall profit tax to pay for some Apollo program for energy (or some other program) since it makes so much sense politically.

 
Wed, June 25:

General Election: McCain vs Obama ------ LA Times/Bloomberg ---------Obama 49, McCain 37 -------Obama +12%

Where's old spidey gone off to? Haven't seem him posting polls in here lately...wonder why... :lol:

 
Last edited by a moderator:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/20...obamas-the.html

Rove: Obama's the Guy at the Country Club Holding a Martini Making Snide Comments About Everyone Else

June 23, 2008 1:36 PM

ABC News' Christianne Klein reports that at a breakfast with Republican insiders at the Capitol Hill Club this morning, former White House senior aide Karl Rove referred to Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois, as "coolly arrogant."

"Even if you never met him, you know this guy," Rove said, per Christianne Klein. "He's the guy at the country club with the beautiful date, holding a martini and a cigarette that stands against the wall and makes snide comments about everyone who passes by."
:lol: :lmao: :cry:
That sounds like me. Must be why I like Obama.
No kidding. Rove just described 90% of FBGs, me included. No wonder Obama is so popular around here.
If I went to a country club I would be that guy, except for the cigarette part, unless I had overdone it at an open bar.
 
A lot of Obama skeptics have been bashing him for voting in lockstep with the Dems, and for not reaching across the aisle even though he says he does.

Well,

that counters that notion ... from Republican Oregon Congressman Gordon Smith. When some down ticket Republicans are putting Rev. Wright in ads, attacking Obama, and then criticizing their opponent for supporting Obama, Smith is embracing Obama. He must think Obama's going to win his district by 20 points.

 
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/20...obamas-the.html

Rove: Obama's the Guy at the Country Club Holding a Martini Making Snide Comments About Everyone Else

June 23, 2008 1:36 PM

ABC News' Christianne Klein reports that at a breakfast with Republican insiders at the Capitol Hill Club this morning, former White House senior aide Karl Rove referred to Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois, as "coolly arrogant."

"Even if you never met him, you know this guy," Rove said, per Christianne Klein. "He's the guy at the country club with the beautiful date, holding a martini and a cigarette that stands against the wall and makes snide comments about everyone who passes by."
:coffee: :coffee: :lmao:
That sounds like me. Must be why I like Obama.
No kidding. Rove just described 90% of FBGs, me included. No wonder Obama is so popular around here.
If I went to a country club I would be that guy, except for the cigarette part, unless I had overdone it at an open bar.
I just love Rove's choice of metaphor.But anyway McCain's problem is that he isn't aware of his own limitations. You know the guy at the gay club who always wears super-small denim cutoff shorts to show off his package, but you know from dancing with him that he's totally not hung at all? That's John McCain.

 
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/20...obamas-the.html

Rove: Obama's the Guy at the Country Club Holding a Martini Making Snide Comments About Everyone Else

June 23, 2008 1:36 PM

ABC News' Christianne Klein reports that at a breakfast with Republican insiders at the Capitol Hill Club this morning, former White House senior aide Karl Rove referred to Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois, as "coolly arrogant."

"Even if you never met him, you know this guy," Rove said, per Christianne Klein. "He's the guy at the country club with the beautiful date, holding a martini and a cigarette that stands against the wall and makes snide comments about everyone who passes by."
:unsure: :hot: :lmao:
That sounds like me. Must be why I like Obama.
No kidding. Rove just described 90% of FBGs, me included. No wonder Obama is so popular around here.
If I went to a country club I would be that guy, except for the cigarette part, unless I had overdone it at an open bar.
I just love Rove's choice of metaphor.But anyway McCain's problem is that he isn't aware of his own limitations. You know the guy at the gay club who always wears super-small denim cutoff shorts to show off his package, but you know from dancing with him that he's totally not hung at all? That's John McCain.
I'm totally not that guy. Must be why I'm not a big McCain fan.....
 
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/20...obamas-the.html

Rove: Obama's the Guy at the Country Club Holding a Martini Making Snide Comments About Everyone Else

June 23, 2008 1:36 PM

ABC News' Christianne Klein reports that at a breakfast with Republican insiders at the Capitol Hill Club this morning, former White House senior aide Karl Rove referred to Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois, as "coolly arrogant."

"Even if you never met him, you know this guy," Rove said, per Christianne Klein. "He's the guy at the country club with the beautiful date, holding a martini and a cigarette that stands against the wall and makes snide comments about everyone who passes by."
:confused: :lmao: :lmao:
That sounds like me. Must be why I like Obama.
No kidding. Rove just described 90% of FBGs, me included. No wonder Obama is so popular around here.
If I went to a country club I would be that guy, except for the cigarette part, unless I had overdone it at an open bar.
I just love Rove's choice of metaphor.But anyway McCain's problem is that he isn't aware of his own limitations. You know the guy at the gay club who always wears super-small denim cutoff shorts to show off his package, but you know from dancing with him that he's totally not hung at all? That's John McCain.
:unsure:
 
The Obamacons Who Worry McCain

What is an "Obamacon?" The phrase surfaced in January to describe British conservatives entranced by Barack Obama. On March 13 the American Spectator broadened the term to cover all "conservative supporters" of the Democratic presidential candidate. Their ranks, though growing, feature few famous people. But looming on the horizon are two big potential Obamacons: Colin Powell and Chuck Hagel.

Neither Powell, first-term secretary of state for George W. Bush, nor Hagel, retiring after two terms as a U.S. senator from Nebraska, has endorsed Obama. Hagel probably never will. Powell probably will enter Obama's camp at a time of his own choosing. The best bet is that neither of the two, both of whom supported President Bush in 2000 and 2004, will back John McCain in 2008.

Powell, Hagel and lesser-known Obamacons harbor no animosity toward McCain. Nor do they show much affection for the rigidly liberal Obama. The Obamacon syndrome is based on hostility to Bush and his administration and on revulsion over today's Republican Party. The danger for McCain is that desire for a therapeutic electoral bloodbath could get out of control.

That danger was highlighted in a June New Republic article on "The rise of the Obamacons" by supply-side economist Bruce Bartlett, who was a middle-level official in the Reagan and George H.W. Bush administrations. He expressed "disgust with a Republican Party that still does not see how badly George W. Bush has misgoverned this country" -- echoing his scathing 2006 book, "Impostor: How George W. Bush Bankrupted America and Betrayed the Reagan Legacy." While Bartlett says "I'm not ready to join the other side," his anti-Bush furor characterizes the Obamacons.

The prototypal Obamacon may be Larry Hunter, recognized inside the Beltway as an ardent supply-sider. When it became known recently that Hunter supports Obama, fellow conservatives were stunned. Hunter was fired as U.S. Chamber of Commerce chief economist in 1993 when he would not swallow Clinton administration policy, and he later joined Jack Kemp at Empower America (ghostwriting Kemp's column). Explaining his support for the uncompromisingly liberal Obama, Hunter blogged on June 6: "The Republican Party is a dead rotting carcass with a few decrepit old leaders stumbling around like zombies in a horror version of 'Weekend With Bernie,' handcuffed to a corpse."

While he never would use such language, Colin Powell is said by friends to share Hunter's analysis of the GOP. His tenuous 13-year relationship with the Republican Party, following his retirement from the Army, has ended. The national security adviser for Ronald Reagan left the present administration bitter about being ushered out of the State Department a year earlier than he wanted. As an African American, friends say, Powell is sensitive to racial attacks on Obama and especially on Obama's wife, Michelle. While McCain strategists shrug off defections from Bruce Bartlett and Larry Hunter, they wince in anticipating headlines generated by Powell's expected endorsement of Obama.

While Powell may not be a legitimate Obamacon because he never was much of a conservative, that cannot be said for his close Senate friend Hagel. He has built a solidly conservative record as a senator, but mutual friends see no difference between him and the general on Iraq, **** Cheney, Don Rumsfeld, George W. Bush and the Republican Party. In a speech today at the Brookings Institution, Hagel is expected to urge Obama and McCain to reach out to each other. At the least, Hagel is not ready to strap on armor for his longtime political ally and office neighbor, John McCain.

Reports listing additional Obamacons do not add up to tides of conservative Republicans leaving their party. Former Federal Reserve chairman Paul Volcker is a Democrat who entered government in the Kennedy administration. Conservative commentator Armstrong Williams (an African American) leads me to believe that he has no intention of endorsing Obama. Conservative author Richard J. Whalen is for Obama because he sees a dead Republican Party, but he also was for John Kerry in 2004.

Nevertheless, Obamacons -- little and big -- are reason for concern by McCain. They also should cause soul-searching at the Bush White House about who made the Republican Party so difficult a place for Republicans to stay.
 
The Obamacons Who Worry McCain

What is an "Obamacon?" The phrase surfaced in January to describe British conservatives entranced by Barack Obama. On March 13 the American Spectator broadened the term to cover all "conservative supporters" of the Democratic presidential candidate. Their ranks, though growing, feature few famous people. But looming on the horizon are two big potential Obamacons: Colin Powell and Chuck Hagel.

Neither Powell, first-term secretary of state for George W. Bush, nor Hagel, retiring after two terms as a U.S. senator from Nebraska, has endorsed Obama. Hagel probably never will. Powell probably will enter Obama's camp at a time of his own choosing. The best bet is that neither of the two, both of whom supported President Bush in 2000 and 2004, will back John McCain in 2008.

Powell, Hagel and lesser-known Obamacons harbor no animosity toward McCain. Nor do they show much affection for the rigidly liberal Obama. The Obamacon syndrome is based on hostility to Bush and his administration and on revulsion over today's Republican Party. The danger for McCain is that desire for a therapeutic electoral bloodbath could get out of control.

That danger was highlighted in a June New Republic article on "The rise of the Obamacons" by supply-side economist Bruce Bartlett, who was a middle-level official in the Reagan and George H.W. Bush administrations. He expressed "disgust with a Republican Party that still does not see how badly George W. Bush has misgoverned this country" -- echoing his scathing 2006 book, "Impostor: How George W. Bush Bankrupted America and Betrayed the Reagan Legacy." While Bartlett says "I'm not ready to join the other side," his anti-Bush furor characterizes the Obamacons.

The prototypal Obamacon may be Larry Hunter, recognized inside the Beltway as an ardent supply-sider. When it became known recently that Hunter supports Obama, fellow conservatives were stunned. Hunter was fired as U.S. Chamber of Commerce chief economist in 1993 when he would not swallow Clinton administration policy, and he later joined Jack Kemp at Empower America (ghostwriting Kemp's column). Explaining his support for the uncompromisingly liberal Obama, Hunter blogged on June 6: "The Republican Party is a dead rotting carcass with a few decrepit old leaders stumbling around like zombies in a horror version of 'Weekend With Bernie,' handcuffed to a corpse."

While he never would use such language, Colin Powell is said by friends to share Hunter's analysis of the GOP. His tenuous 13-year relationship with the Republican Party, following his retirement from the Army, has ended. The national security adviser for Ronald Reagan left the present administration bitter about being ushered out of the State Department a year earlier than he wanted. As an African American, friends say, Powell is sensitive to racial attacks on Obama and especially on Obama's wife, Michelle. While McCain strategists shrug off defections from Bruce Bartlett and Larry Hunter, they wince in anticipating headlines generated by Powell's expected endorsement of Obama.

While Powell may not be a legitimate Obamacon because he never was much of a conservative, that cannot be said for his close Senate friend Hagel. He has built a solidly conservative record as a senator, but mutual friends see no difference between him and the general on Iraq, **** Cheney, Don Rumsfeld, George W. Bush and the Republican Party. In a speech today at the Brookings Institution, Hagel is expected to urge Obama and McCain to reach out to each other. At the least, Hagel is not ready to strap on armor for his longtime political ally and office neighbor, John McCain.

Reports listing additional Obamacons do not add up to tides of conservative Republicans leaving their party. Former Federal Reserve chairman Paul Volcker is a Democrat who entered government in the Kennedy administration. Conservative commentator Armstrong Williams (an African American) leads me to believe that he has no intention of endorsing Obama. Conservative author Richard J. Whalen is for Obama because he sees a dead Republican Party, but he also was for John Kerry in 2004.

Nevertheless, Obamacons -- little and big -- are reason for concern by McCain. They also should cause soul-searching at the Bush White House about who made the Republican Party so difficult a place for Republicans to stay.
Maybe if Obama threw a little payola to Armstrong he'd jump on board...(WIKIPEDIA)

Selling the Bush Administration's "No Child Left Behind" policy

In January 2005, USA Today reported that documents obtained under the Freedom of Information Act revealed that Williams had been paid $240,000 to promote the controversial No Child Left Behind Act. Williams was hired "to promote the law on his nationally syndicated television show and to urge other black journalists to do the same". [2]

As part of the agreement, Williams was required "to regularly comment on NCLB during the course of his broadcasts," and to interview Education Secretary Rod Paige for TV and radio spots that aired during the show in 2004".[3] The contract with Williams was part of a $1 million contract between the U.S. Department of Education and the public relations company, Ketchum Inc.

Melanie Sloan from Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington told USA Today that the contract may be illegal "because Congress has prohibited propaganda ... [A]nd it's propaganda". United States Representative George Miller (D-CA), a member of the House Education Committee, called the contract "a very questionable use of taxpayers' money" that is "probably illegal". [4] Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington was founded in 2001 by Melanie Sloan, a former aide to Representative John Conyers and Senator Charles Schumer.

After the USA Today revelations, Tribune Media Services terminated its syndication agreement with Williams. In a statement to Editor and Publisher (not available on its website), TMS stated: "[A]ccepting compensation in any form from an entity that serves as a subject of his weekly newspaper columns creates, at the very least, the appearance of a conflict of interest. Under these circumstances, readers may well ask themselves if the views expressed in his columns are his own, or whether they have been purchased by a third party".[5] Williams told Associated Press "even though I'm not a journalist — I'm a commentator — I feel I should be held to the media ethics standard. My judgment was not the best. I wouldn't do it again, and I learned from it." [2]

White House press secretary Scott McClellan said it was a matter for the Education Department. According to Associated Press the Department of Education stated that the deal was a "permissible use of taxpayer funds under legal government contracting procedures".[3] McClellan remained noncommittal on whether White House staff knew of the deal with Williams. "I'm not sure that senior staff was consulted before this decision was made. I haven't heard anything to that effect", he said. [6] Three days after the story broke, McClellan claimed he was unaware of the details of the contract and that specific questions should be directed to the Education Department. As to whether Williams should have disclosed the details of the contract in his columns and on-air appearances, McClellan would only concede that "those are all legitimate questions". Asked whether he would investigate whether other journalists were on the payroll of the administration, McClellan replied, "I'm not aware of any others that are under contract other than the one that's been reported on in the media."[citation needed]

Following the revelations of the Williams contract with Ketchum, the watchdog group Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington announced that it had filed Freedom of Information requests with 22 agencies requesting copies of all contracts with public relation firms. [7]

The USA Today revelations caused controversy within the PR industry as well. As soon as the story broke, Edelman Public Relations' CEO Richard Edelman posted a note on his personal blog criticizing Ketchum's deal with Williams. "This kind of pay for play public relations takes us back in time to the days of the press agent who would drop off the new record album and $10 to the deejay. It makes our industry's efforts to 'clean up' behavior in newly created PR markets such as China and Russia look decidedly ridiculous", he wrote.[8] The Public Relations Society of America (PRSA) issued a statement saying "the relationship should have been disclosed up front, no question".[9]

On January 26, 2005 a similar arrangement surfaced between Maggie Gallagher and the Department of Health and Human Services involving her paid support of the Bush administration's "healthy marriage" initiative, which she did not disclose. On January 28, 2005 it was revealed that Michael McManus, a syndicated columnist who writes Ethics & Religion, was paid up to $10,000 to support the administration's marriage initiative to divert funds from welfare to marital counselling, which he did not disclose.[10]

On September 30, 2005, the Government Accountability Office released a report concluding that the payments to Williams were illegal on the part of the Department of Education because the government's role in the public relations effort was not disclosed. [11]

 
CNN's Electoral Map - Two States Shift to Obama

(CNN) — Two more states have shifted to Barack Obama's column in the new CNN Electoral Map that charts the candidates’ strength leading up to the November election.

"Toss-up" states Minnesota and Wisconsin were re-designated to "Lean-Obama" Friday, giving the presumptive Democratic nominee another 20 electoral votes in CNN's current estimate. The Illinois senator now has 231 electoral votes — 39 shy of winning the nomination.

CNN made the change after new polling conducted by Quinnipiac University showed that Obama holds double-digit leads over presumptive Republican nominee John McCain in both states. CNN's analysis estimates McCain has 194 electoral votes.

This is only a CNN estimate and is likely to change many more times in the lead up to the election.

The Quinnipiac surveys, released Thursday, showed Obama with a 17-point lead in Minnesota, 54-37 percent, and a 13 point lead in Wisconsin, 52-39 percent.
 
CNN's Electoral Map - Two States Shift to Obama

(CNN) — Two more states have shifted to Barack Obama's column in the new CNN Electoral Map that charts the candidates’ strength leading up to the November election.

"Toss-up" states Minnesota and Wisconsin were re-designated to "Lean-Obama" Friday, giving the presumptive Democratic nominee another 20 electoral votes in CNN's current estimate. The Illinois senator now has 231 electoral votes — 39 shy of winning the nomination.
I think CNN needs to realize that the nomination process is over, and these polls are referring to the general election.
 
CNN's Electoral Map - Two States Shift to Obama

(CNN) — Two more states have shifted to Barack Obama's column in the new CNN Electoral Map that charts the candidates’ strength leading up to the November election.

"Toss-up" states Minnesota and Wisconsin were re-designated to "Lean-Obama" Friday, giving the presumptive Democratic nominee another 20 electoral votes in CNN's current estimate. The Illinois senator now has 231 electoral votes — 39 shy of winning the nomination.
I think CNN needs to realize that the nomination process is over, and these polls are referring to the general election.
Yeah, they already made the correction.
 
CNN's Electoral Map - Two States Shift to Obama

(CNN) — Two more states have shifted to Barack Obama's column in the new CNN Electoral Map that charts the candidates’ strength leading up to the November election.

"Toss-up" states Minnesota and Wisconsin were re-designated to "Lean-Obama" Friday, giving the presumptive Democratic nominee another 20 electoral votes in CNN's current estimate. The Illinois senator now has 231 electoral votes — 39 shy of winning the nomination.
I think CNN needs to realize that the nomination process is over, and these polls are referring to the general election.
Yeah, they already made the correction.
CNN> Hi
 
The Obamacons Who Worry McCain

looming on the horizon are two big potential Obamacons: Colin Powell and Chuck Hagel.

Powell probably will enter Obama's camp at a time of his own choosing.
Is the defection of black political support to the first black man to have a legitimate chance at the presidency truly a surprise to the McCain campaign?
 
The Obamacons Who Worry McCain

looming on the horizon are two big potential Obamacons: Colin Powell and Chuck Hagel.

Powell probably will enter Obama's camp at a time of his own choosing.
Is the defection of black political support to the first black man to have a legitimate chance at the presidency truly a surprise to the McCain campaign?
If Powell endorses Obama, you think it will be because of race?
 
And the article talks about MN and WI as being previous "toss up" states. There's no chance either of those would go to McCain. I think they are being hyper-conservative with their predictions.
This is shaping up to be a bloodbath.:overconfident:
I honestly have no idea how it will ultimately shake out, but I would bet my left nut on MN and WI going Obama. I'm also humored by Oregon, Washington, and New Jersey being in play. Less so by Pennsylvania, but McCain has effectively no shot there either.
 

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