*** Official Barack Obama FBG campaign headquarters *** (2 Viewers)

[urbanhack]

link

Clinton Plans to Target Obama's Pledged Delegates

Sen. Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign "intends to go after delegates whom Barack Obama has already won in the caucuses and primaries if she needs them to win the nomination," Roger Simon reports.

"This strategy was confirmed to me by a high-ranking Clinton official on Monday. And I am not talking about superdelegates, those 795 party big shots who are not pledged to anybody. I am talking about getting pledged delegates to switch sides."

The reason: "Pledged delegates are not really pledged at all, not even on the first ballot. This has been an open secret in the party for years, but it has never really mattered because there has almost always been a clear victor by the time the convention convened."

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

link

Clinton Plans to Target Obama's Pledged Delegates

Sen. Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign "intends to go after delegates whom Barack Obama has already won in the caucuses and primaries if she needs them to win the nomination," Roger Simon reports.

"This strategy was confirmed to me by a high-ranking Clinton official on Monday. And I am not talking about superdelegates, those 795 party big shots who are not pledged to anybody. I am talking about getting pledged delegates to switch sides."

The reason: "Pledged delegates are not really pledged at all, not even on the first ballot. This has been an open secret in the party for years, but it has never really mattered because there has almost always been a clear victor by the time the convention convened."

Of all the things I've hoped would backfire on her, this would be the sweetest. If a bunch of her pledged delegates come out for Barack I will have an Obasm.

 

[Sammy3469]

So in PA, Clinton failed to field a full delegate slate

Link

If every delegate matters, this is truly too f**** funny.

 

[bigbottom]

Anecdotes from Texas talk radio:

(topic was internment camps during WWII)

Caller: You know, if we ever decided to have Muslim-American camps, we'd have to send Barack Obama there.

Host 1: Yeah.

Caller: Barack says he's a Christian now, but if that's so, how come he hasn't gone back to his Christian name.

Host 1: That's a good point.

Caller: Barack has never answered that question. If he's no longer a muslim, how come he's kept his muslim name instead of going back to his Christian birth name?

Host 1: What is his Christian birth name?

Caller: No one knows, and you'll never get Obama to tell you.

Host 2: I guess his mom would have known, but she's dead.

Host 1: Yeah, she died of cancer when she was 53. Of course, Obama mentions this whenever he has an opportunity.

Host 2: Maybe it's his way of drumming up support for universal health care.

This is news to me. It's my understanding that he was born Barack Hussein Obama. Is that not the case?Another call, five minutes later:

Caller: Why aren't people talking about the fact that Obama was a practicing Muslim as a child?

Host 2: He was a Muslim for like five minutes.

Host 1: No once you're a muslim, you're always a muslim. Otherwise you get your head cut off.

Caller: When he was a kid growing up in Chicago, his friends called him Barry. But then he changed it to Barack because it sounded blacker and he could have more influence in the black community.

Two calls in the 10 minute span I was listening to this particular station. And this in Houston, the foruth largest city in the country with the largest black population in the state. I wonder what's happening on talk radio in rural Texas.

 

[Clayton Gray]

Two calls in the 10 minute span I was listening to this particular station. And this in Houston, the foruth largest city in the country with the largest black population in the state. I wonder what's happening on talk radio in rural Texas.

Hopefully, these people are too ignorant to figure out their polling place.

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

So in PA, Clinton failed to field a full delegate slate

Link

If every delegate matters, this is truly too f**** funny.

Especially for a campaign running on experience, and "ready day one"!

 

[tdoublebb]

People still buyin into this guy huh?

Yes, he uses "big" words ........

"Yes we can"

brilliant

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

Anecdotes from Texas talk radio:

(topic was internment camps during WWII)

Caller: You know, if we ever decided to have Muslim-American camps, we'd have to send Barack Obama there.

Host 1: Yeah.

Caller: Barack says he's a Christian now, but if that's so, how come he hasn't gone back to his Christian name.

Host 1: That's a good point.

Caller: Barack has never answered that question. If he's no longer a muslim, how come he's kept his muslim name instead of going back to his Christian birth name?

Host 1: What is his Christian birth name?

Caller: No one knows, and you'll never get Obama to tell you.

Host 2: I guess his mom would have known, but she's dead.

Host 1: Yeah, she died of cancer when she was 53. Of course, Obama mentions this whenever he has an opportunity.

Host 2: Maybe it's his way of drumming up support for universal health care.

This is news to me. It's my understanding that he was born Barack Hussein Obama. Is that not the case?Another call, five minutes later:

Caller: Why aren't people talking about the fact that Obama was a practicing Muslim as a child?

Host 2: He was a Muslim for like five minutes.

Host 1: No once you're a muslim, you're always a muslim. Otherwise you get your head cut off.

Caller: When he was a kid growing up in Chicago, his friends called him Barry. But then he changed it to Barack because it sounded blacker and he could have more influence in the black community.

Two calls in the 10 minute span I was listening to this particular station. And this in Houston, the foruth largest city in the country with the largest black population in the state. I wonder what's happening on talk radio in rural Texas.

I awlays thought when they said "Don't mess with Texas" they meant you'd get in a fight. Now I see that it's really more of a plea not to tease the easily confused and mentally fragile.Please people, don't mess with Texas.

 

[aardball44]

it's a very real possibility that even with superdelegates, neither candidate will reach the necessary number.

This is only possible if a third candidate gets some delegates. Edwards won 26 delegates, so I suppose if Obama/Clinton was almost exactly even, and the Edwards delegates still voted for Edwards, it could happen. In that case, there would be another round of voting.

This is also possible if the Michigan and Florida delegates aren't seated...isn't it?

 

[Jeremy]

I don't know why, but I have a real bad feeling about Wisconsin.

In 3 hours I'll be putting my vote down for Obama. At age 37, I still get a big kick out of voting. I think the Wisconsin results will tell us how much stock people are putting into the recent nonsense regarding plagarism, this thing with people fainting at conventions, his wife saying something foolish, and Clinton's accusations that he's all pretty speaches with no substance. Hillary is taking a bit of a risk by going negative. Tonight we'll see if it worked out for her. I have a feeling Obama is going to win by double digits, and I think it'll be the independants and Republicans who make up the difference. In Wisconsin, they give you a ballot. Republicans on one side, Democrats on the other. They tell you to pick one side or the other. (the vote won't count if you do both). You don't have to be a registered Dem or Rep. You can even register to vote at the voting site. There's always the possibility you could have Repulicans vote for Hillary to try to give McCain a better matchup in the general election, but I think the majority of Republicans are too patriotic to subvert the system like that. Plus most Republicans wouldn't want to risk the possibility of Hillary being president. So I'm fairly optomistic about Wisconsin, but I'll feel a lot better if 8pm (?) rolls around and they're projecting Obama based on exit polls.

 

[Statorama]

People still buyin into this guy huh?

Reminds me of the guy selling the monorail on the Simpsons, but substitute universal healthcare for monorail.

 

[Sammy3469]

it's a very real possibility that even with superdelegates, neither candidate will reach the necessary number.

This is only possible if a third candidate gets some delegates. Edwards won 26 delegates, so I suppose if Obama/Clinton was almost exactly even, and the Edwards delegates still voted for Edwards, it could happen. In that case, there would be another round of voting.

This is also possible if the Michigan and Florida delegates aren't seated...isn't it?

I don't think so. I believe its a pure majority of seated delegates (both pledged and super). With the way its going, Obama will control the seating committee (or whatever its called) and neither of those delegations will get seated. They could also decide to change the number of delegates from those two states which would again alter the total number of seated delegates. The number of supers can also change between now and the convention (for instance Hastert's old seat is up for election in MArch would could generate an extra super).

 

[culdeus]

Dallas Morning News endorsed Obama

and Huckababee

Then they devoted an entire column with 5 or 6 writers each taking shots at Obama. Nothing about the Republican candidates.

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

I don't know why, but I have a real bad feeling about Wisconsin.

In 3 hours I'll be putting my vote down for Obama. At age 37, I still get a big kick out of voting. I think the Wisconsin results will tell us how much stock people are putting into the recent nonsense regarding plagarism, this thing with people fainting at conventions, his wife saying something foolish, and Clinton's accusations that he's all pretty speaches with no substance. Hillary is taking a bit of a risk by going negative. Tonight we'll see if it worked out for her.

I have a feeling Obama is going to win by double digits, and I think it'll be the independants and Republicans who make up the difference. In Wisconsin, they give you a ballot. Republicans on one side, Democrats on the other. They tell you to pick one side or the other. (the vote won't count if you do both). You don't have to be a registered Dem or Rep. You can even register to vote at the voting sight.

There's always the possibility you could have Repulicans vote for Hillary to try to give McCain a better matchup in the general election, but I think the majority of Republicans are too patriotic to subvert the system like that. Plus most Republicans wouldn't want to risk the possibility of Hillary being president.

So I'm fairly optomistic about Wisconsin, but I'll feel a lot better if 8pm (?) rolls around and they're projecting Obama based on exit polls.

Republicans made up about 7% of the voters in the Virginia Democratic exit polls and Obama got 70% of those votes. I don't think he has anything to worry about there. I'm hoping for a double digit win, as it will put all of the non-sense talk of the last couple of days to rest and keep the momentum going into the big March contests. I'm cautiously optimistic.

Also, I have to admit I got to do a caucus for the first time the year at 37 and felt like a little kid on Christmas morning. I wish more people were excited about the political process.

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

People still buyin into this guy huh?

Reminds me of the guy selling the monorail on the Simpsons, but substitute universal healthcare for monorail.

And substitute Wisconsin for Springfield.And substitute real people for cartoons.John McCain reminds me of a peanut butter sandwich. If you substitute John McCain with a peanut butter sandwich.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

People still buyin into this guy huh?

As opposed to "buying into McCain"???Obama in a landslide... McCain is a massive political shill and flip flopper. I actually care for my country over my party. IMO a vast majority of republicans don't even like McCain.

 

[Statorama]

People still buyin into this guy huh?

Reminds me of the guy selling the monorail on the Simpsons, but substitute universal healthcare for monorail.

And substitute Wisconsin for Springfield.And substitute real people for cartoons.John McCain reminds me of a peanut butter sandwich. If you substitute John McCain with a peanut butter sandwich.

I didn't think that the comparison was all that complicated. I just think that all of you are being hoodwinked. You're being had. You're being took. You're being led astray, run amok. You're being bamboozled.

 

[adonis]

People still buyin into this guy huh?

Reminds me of the guy selling the monorail on the Simpsons, but substitute universal healthcare for monorail.

And substitute Wisconsin for Springfield.And substitute real people for cartoons.John McCain reminds me of a peanut butter sandwich. If you substitute John McCain with a peanut butter sandwich.

I didn't think that the comparison was all that complicated. I just think that all of you are being hoodwinked. You're being had. You're being took. You're being led astray, run amok. You're being bamboozled.

I agree, and soon they will wake up and wonder how they could ever have supported McCain.

 

[Clayton Gray]

People still buyin into this guy huh?

Reminds me of the guy selling the monorail on the Simpsons, but substitute universal healthcare for monorail.

And substitute Wisconsin for Springfield.And substitute real people for cartoons.John McCain reminds me of a peanut butter sandwich. If you substitute John McCain with a peanut butter sandwich.

I didn't think that the comparison was all that complicated. I just think that all of you are being hoodwinked. You're being had. You're being took. You're being led astray, run amok. You're being bamboozled.

etpeeve:We're being taken.:/petpeeve:

 

[Autumn Wind]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080219/ap_on_...consin_warnings

Gives a lot of reasons why Clinton could actually win WI.

 

[shining path]

People still buyin into this guy huh?

Reminds me of the guy selling the monorail on the Simpsons, but substitute universal healthcare for monorail.

And substitute Wisconsin for Springfield.And substitute real people for cartoons.John McCain reminds me of a peanut butter sandwich. If you substitute John McCain with a peanut butter sandwich.

RBM reminds me of styrofoam peanuts.

 

[Softballguy]

I don't know why, but I have a real bad feeling about Wisconsin.

There's always the possibility you could have Repulicans vote for Hillary to try to give McCain a better matchup in the general election, but I think the majority of Republicans are too patriotic to subvert the system like that. Plus most Republicans wouldn't want to risk the possibility of Hillary being president.

This line of thought has gotten a lot of play on the talk radio stations around here. Do the Republicans vote for Hillary and risk her actually becoming president (which seems to be unanimously thought of as the worst outcome), or do they go vote for McCain.I'm sure Clinton will get a decent amount of votes from people who think she's the worst candidate. That fact, along with all the morons who think Obama is some anti-American Muslim make me hate this process that we have.

 

[Voltaire]

People still buyin into this guy huh?

Reminds me of the guy selling the monorail on the Simpsons, but substitute universal healthcare for monorail.

And substitute Wisconsin for Springfield.And substitute real people for cartoons.John McCain reminds me of a peanut butter sandwich. If you substitute John McCain with a peanut butter sandwich.

I didn't think that the comparison was all that complicated. I just think that all of you are being hoodwinked. You're being had. You're being took. You're being led astray, run amok. You're being bamboozled.

Also, I'm an Obama supporter, but Hillary is right in that Barack's plan isn't universal.That's a good thing. His plan is legions better than her's or McCain's.

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

People still buyin into this guy huh?

Reminds me of the guy selling the monorail on the Simpsons, but substitute universal healthcare for monorail.

And substitute Wisconsin for Springfield.And substitute real people for cartoons.John McCain reminds me of a peanut butter sandwich. If you substitute John McCain with a peanut butter sandwich.

RBM reminds me of styrofoam peanuts.

Of course. But Strat and I were going for abstract, not literal.

 

[bigbottom]

Let's keep a running list of the recent Obama attacks. More are sure to come.

1) Barack Obama is a plagiarizer.

2) Barack Obama stages events at campaign rallies.

3) Barack Obama is a Muslim.

4) Barack Obama is all talk and no substance.

5) Barack Obama bribes superdelegates.

6) Barack Obama is breaking his word on public campaign financing.

7) Michelle Obama hasn't been proud of America before now.

 

[Marc Levin]

If a bunch of her pledged delegates come out for Barack I will have an Obasm.

:nttawwt:BTW, you should that one before Stephen Colbert steal it.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Let's keep a running list of the recent Obama attacks. More are sure to come.1) Barack Obama is a plagiarizer.2) Barack Obama stages events at campaign rallies.3) Barack Obama is a Muslim.4) Barack Obama is all talk and no substance.5) Barack Obama bribes superdelegates.6) Barack Obama is breaking his word on public campaign financing.7) Michelle Obama hasn't been proud of America before now.

In some places "he is black" is being used.

 

[Autumn Wind]

Let's keep a running list of the recent Obama attacks. More are sure to come.1) Barack Obama is a plagiarizer.2) Barack Obama stages events at campaign rallies.3) Barack Obama is a Muslim.4) Barack Obama is all talk and no substance.5) Barack Obama bribes superdelegates.6) Barack Obama is breaking his word on public campaign financing.7) Michelle Obama hasn't been proud of America before now.

I'm sure at some point they'll trot out that old pic of him not putting his hand on his heart during the national anthem.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Let's keep a running list of the recent Obama attacks. More are sure to come.1) Barack Obama is a plagiarizer.2) Barack Obama stages events at campaign rallies.3) Barack Obama is a Muslim.4) Barack Obama is all talk and no substance.5) Barack Obama bribes superdelegates.6) Barack Obama is breaking his word on public campaign financing.7) Michelle Obama hasn't been proud of America before now.

I'm sure at some point they'll trot out that old pic of him not putting his hand on his heart during the national anthem.

Excellent catch.

 

[bigbottom]

Updated list:

1) Barack Obama is a plagiarizer.

2) Barack Obama stages events at campaign rallies.

3) Barack Obama is a Muslim.

4) Barack Obama is all talk and no substance.

5) Barack Obama bribes superdelegates.

6) Barack Obama is breaking his word on public campaign financing.

7) Michelle Obama hasn't been proud of America before now.

8) Barack Obama is Black (and only cares about Black issues).

9) Barack Obama isn't Black enough.

10) Barack Obama won't say the Pledge of Allegiance or put his hand over his heart, and turns his back to the flag during the National Anthem.

 

[Autumn Wind]

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/obama.asp

 

[My Hope Street Alias]

Can any WI FBGs report what they saw today when voting? TIA

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

Updated list:1) Barack Obama is a plagiarizer.2) Barack Obama stages events at campaign rallies.3) Barack Obama is a Muslim.4) Barack Obama is all talk and no substance.5) Barack Obama bribes superdelegates.6) Barack Obama is breaking his word on public campaign financing.7) Michelle Obama hasn't been proud of America before now.8) Barack Obama is Black (and only cares about Black issues).9) Barack Obama isn't Black enough.10) Barack Obama won't say the Pledge of Allegiance or put his hand over his heart, and turns his back to the flag during the National Anthem.

Barack Obama won't shake hands with Hillary in the Capitol.Barack Obama refuses to debate Hillary.

 

[timschochet]

Let's keep a running list of the recent Obama attacks. More are sure to come.1) Barack Obama is a plagiarizer.2) Barack Obama stages events at campaign rallies.3) Barack Obama is a Muslim.4) Barack Obama is all talk and no substance.5) Barack Obama bribes superdelegates.6) Barack Obama is breaking his word on public campaign financing.7) Michelle Obama hasn't been proud of America before now.

I'm sure at some point they'll trot out that old pic of him not putting his hand on his heart during the national anthem.

Forget all of these foolish attacks. Here is what I would like to hear from Senator Obama:1. Does the new election in Pakistan convey legitimacy to that government? Should we continue to give it money and support, or hold up until all political prisoners are released? And should we push them to help us capture Bin laden, at the risk of weakening stability?2. What should we do about Vladimir Putin's threatening actions towards his neighbors, many of whom (under Bush) we have accepted into NATO. Should we tell Putin we will go to war to prevent Russian invasion of her neighbors, if need be? Should we increase or decrease trade and relations with Putin?3. How do we handle China and India's attempt to monopolize the world oil supply? If global warming is a serious issue that needs to be addressed, how can America do so unilaterally while these other nations ignore it? With China, how to handle our amount of debt which increases every year?4. Every President since Jimmy Carter has sought a Middle East peace by forcing Israel to give up land. Will Obama continue this practice, which has failed so far? Does he have any new ideas to offer?5. Is Obama willing to use force to prevent Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon? If so, what kind of force? If not, will he as President allow the Israelis to do it for him?6. Would Obama actually meet with Kim Jong Il of North Korea, going against the policy of several previous administrations? What purpose would he hope to serve?

 

[Marc Levin]

Good questions for both candidates right there, timschochet.

And there are no easy answers to any of them.

 

[Jeremy]

Can any WI FBGs report what they saw today when voting? TIA

I'll let you know in about an hour. I live in suburbs and I always vote over lunch. In the past, even during presidential elections, it's been very slow at that time, so it probably won't be a very good gauge.

 

[adonis]

Let's keep a running list of the recent Obama attacks. More are sure to come.1) Barack Obama is a plagiarizer.2) Barack Obama stages events at campaign rallies.3) Barack Obama is a Muslim.4) Barack Obama is all talk and no substance.5) Barack Obama bribes superdelegates.6) Barack Obama is breaking his word on public campaign financing.7) Michelle Obama hasn't been proud of America before now.

I'm sure at some point they'll trot out that old pic of him not putting his hand on his heart during the national anthem.

Forget all of these foolish attacks. Here is what I would like to hear from Senator Obama:1. Does the new election in Pakistan convey legitimacy to that government? Should we continue to give it money and support, or hold up until all political prisoners are released? And should we push them to help us capture Bin laden, at the risk of weakening stability?

Hopefully he'll comment on this soon. I'd be interested in hearing his take.

2. What should we do about Vladimir Putin's threatening actions towards his neighbors, many of whom (under Bush) we have accepted into NATO. Should we tell Putin we will go to war to prevent Russian invasion of her neighbors, if need be? Should we increase or decrease trade and relations with Putin?

The sad fact is that we're currently in no shape to go to war anywhere else other than Iraq. Until we get out of there, we're going to be unable to realistically confront problems that pose much more of a threat to the US and the world than Iraq did before we invaded.

3. How do we handle China and India's attempt to monopolize the world oil supply? If global warming is a serious issue that needs to be addressed, how can America do so unilaterally while these other nations ignore it? With China, how to handle our amount of debt which increases every year?

I think Obama would say that we need to heavily invest in coming up with alternative sources of fuel as until then, we're still reliant on other countries to supply things that are vital to us. America isn't confronting global warming unilaterally, in fact, I think we neglected to be a part of some world-wide coalition dealing with reducing pollution or other stuff. Regarding debt, Obama doesn't have the silly notion that we can continue to cut taxes, and increase spending to record levels. He's going to let the tax cuts expire for the rich, and impose a Pay as you go government, where everything has to be accounted for. Getting out of Iraq and reducing our costs there will go a long way towards making us more stable on the balance sheet. $10 billion a month hurts.

4. Every President since Jimmy Carter has sought a Middle East peace by forcing Israel to give up land. Will Obama continue this practice, which has failed so far? Does he have any new ideas to offer?

He has an israel policy that's linked on the first page if you wanted to read more about it.

5. Is Obama willing to use force to prevent Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon? If so, what kind of force? If not, will he as President allow the Israelis to do it for him?

You talk as if Israel needs our permission to act in its own interest. I'm pretty sure Obama wants to rely on the world community to prevent Iran from getting nukes.

6. Would Obama actually meet with Kim Jong Il of North Korea, going against the policy of several previous administrations? What purpose would he hope to serve?

Obama would meet with any other leader if it would be in the best interest of america as he sees it. If he thought it would lead to a better understanding, better relationship, better odds of closing a deal, I think he would, but I can't see him meeting just to meet.Those are my takes on the questions. How do you think McCain would reply to your own questions?

 

[timschochet]

Let's keep a running list of the recent Obama attacks. More are sure to come.1) Barack Obama is a plagiarizer.2) Barack Obama stages events at campaign rallies.3) Barack Obama is a Muslim.4) Barack Obama is all talk and no substance.5) Barack Obama bribes superdelegates.6) Barack Obama is breaking his word on public campaign financing.7) Michelle Obama hasn't been proud of America before now.

I'm sure at some point they'll trot out that old pic of him not putting his hand on his heart during the national anthem.

Forget all of these foolish attacks. Here is what I would like to hear from Senator Obama:1. Does the new election in Pakistan convey legitimacy to that government? Should we continue to give it money and support, or hold up until all political prisoners are released? And should we push them to help us capture Bin laden, at the risk of weakening stability?

Hopefully he'll comment on this soon. I'd be interested in hearing his take.

2. What should we do about Vladimir Putin's threatening actions towards his neighbors, many of whom (under Bush) we have accepted into NATO. Should we tell Putin we will go to war to prevent Russian invasion of her neighbors, if need be? Should we increase or decrease trade and relations with Putin?

The sad fact is that we're currently in no shape to go to war anywhere else other than Iraq. Until we get out of there, we're going to be unable to realistically confront problems that pose much more of a threat to the US and the world than Iraq did before we invaded.

3. How do we handle China and India's attempt to monopolize the world oil supply? If global warming is a serious issue that needs to be addressed, how can America do so unilaterally while these other nations ignore it? With China, how to handle our amount of debt which increases every year?

I think Obama would say that we need to heavily invest in coming up with alternative sources of fuel as until then, we're still reliant on other countries to supply things that are vital to us. America isn't confronting global warming unilaterally, in fact, I think we neglected to be a part of some world-wide coalition dealing with reducing pollution or other stuff. Regarding debt, Obama doesn't have the silly notion that we can continue to cut taxes, and increase spending to record levels. He's going to let the tax cuts expire for the rich, and impose a Pay as you go government, where everything has to be accounted for. Getting out of Iraq and reducing our costs there will go a long way towards making us more stable on the balance sheet. $10 billion a month hurts.

4. Every President since Jimmy Carter has sought a Middle East peace by forcing Israel to give up land. Will Obama continue this practice, which has failed so far? Does he have any new ideas to offer?

He has an israel policy that's linked on the first page if you wanted to read more about it.

5. Is Obama willing to use force to prevent Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon? If so, what kind of force? If not, will he as President allow the Israelis to do it for him?

You talk as if Israel needs our permission to act in its own interest. I'm pretty sure Obama wants to rely on the world community to prevent Iran from getting nukes.

6. Would Obama actually meet with Kim Jong Il of North Korea, going against the policy of several previous administrations? What purpose would he hope to serve?

Obama would meet with any other leader if it would be in the best interest of america as he sees it. If he thought it would lead to a better understanding, better relationship, better odds of closing a deal, I think he would, but I can't see him meeting just to meet.Those are my takes on the questions. How do you think McCain would reply to your own questions?

I appreciate your input. I will try to reply:1. After Bhutto's assassination, McCain stated that continued support of the Pakistani govt was the best of several bad options. He hinted that the push towards democracy was less important than stability. This is very important: one of McCain's major disagreements with Bush is Bush's messianic belief in pushing democracy at all costs around the world. Bush is much like Jimmy Carter, except Bush is more willing to use force to achieve his end. McCain's view of the world is much more like Churchill- democracy is fine and good, but stability comes first. I think therefore McCain would continue to support Pakistan and not really criticize the situation there for the time being.2. McCain would take an agressive policy towards Putin, although I doubt force would ever be necessary. Putin is the sort of man who takes advantage of weakness. He obviously thinks Bush is weak, so he's doing what he likes. I'm sure he would at least test out Obama, wondering if all the "peace" rhetoric meant he was weak as well. However, Putin will be wary of McCain.3. I don't know what the answer is to China and India, energy and debt. More so than all of the other issues listed, this is our biggest dilemma long term. Both Obama and McCain want us to have alternative energy sources; the big difference is, McCain is big on nuclear energy, whereas Obama follows the green line of being anti-nuclear (this is one of the decisive reasons I am for McCain.) Other than that, I will eagerly look forward to both men's discussion of these issues.4. McCain is a staunch supporter of Israel. He realizes it is foolish for the Israelis to give up more land while Hamas and Hezbollah dominate so much of the Palestinian thinking. My own view is that the only solution that MIGHT work would be a contiguous Palestinian state that includes Old Jerusalem within its borders, but I don't know if this is in the cards in our generation.5. McCain would use force to prevent Iran from going nuclear.6. McCain would not meet with Kim Jong Il, whom he considers a brutal killer. To McCain, that would be the equivalent of shaking hands with Idi Amin or even Adolf Hitler. Certain actions are not proper for the President of the United States.That's my take, anyway. But I appreciate this discussion, Adonis. We need to put all of the silly crap out of the way and start defining the differences between the two candidates so that people can make intelligent decisions.

 

[adonis]

That's my take, anyway. But I appreciate this discussion, Adonis. We need to put all of the silly crap out of the way and start defining the differences between the two candidates so that people can make intelligent decisions.

Agreed. I tend to think the more fair-minded you are, the more likely you are to convince other people who are truly undecided. Making inflammatory comments about either side really doesn't do much other than serve as an applause line for people who are already convinced...and that's kinda just like patting yourself on the back.You ask good questions and feel free to ask away in this thread to find out what Obama's positions are. I'll try to give as good of an answer as I can, and I'm sure there are others here who can help do that as well. I hope that in the McCain thread you can do the same thing.Quick question though: Honestly, was McCain your first choice from the start? If so, why, and if not, who and why?

 

[The_Man]

Updated list:

1) Barack Obama is a plagiarizer.

2) Barack Obama stages events at campaign rallies.

3) Barack Obama is a Muslim.

4) Barack Obama is all talk and no substance.

5) Barack Obama bribes superdelegates.

6) Barack Obama is breaking his word on public campaign financing.

7) Michelle Obama hasn't been proud of America before now.

8) Barack Obama is Black (and only cares about Black issues).

9) Barack Obama isn't Black enough.

10) Barack Obama won't say the Pledge of Allegiance or put his hand over his heart, and turns his back to the flag during the National Anthem.

11) If Barack Obama doesn't win the Democratic nomination, he will team with Michael Bloomberg to run on an independent ticket and Bloomberg will foot up to $1 billion to fund the campaign.

 

[timschochet]

That's my take, anyway. But I appreciate this discussion, Adonis. We need to put all of the silly crap out of the way and start defining the differences between the two candidates so that people can make intelligent decisions.

Agreed. I tend to think the more fair-minded you are, the more likely you are to convince other people who are truly undecided. Making inflammatory comments about either side really doesn't do much other than serve as an applause line for people who are already convinced...and that's kinda just like patting yourself on the back.You ask good questions and feel free to ask away in this thread to find out what Obama's positions are. I'll try to give as good of an answer as I can, and I'm sure there are others here who can help do that as well. I hope that in the McCain thread you can do the same thing.Quick question though: Honestly, was McCain your first choice from the start? If so, why, and if not, who and why?

To answer your question:I am a fiscal conservative, social liberal. I voted for John Kerry in the last election because at the time the GOP controlled both House and Senate, and they were spending like madmen. A democratic President, I thought, would create gridlock. I also disagreed with the Iraq war , disliked Bush, and hated the whole Swift Boat thing. And starting then too, the attitude of the right wing towards immigration made me ill.After 04, my dislike for Bush turned into near hatred. First the Schaivo case, then Katrina, then the continued Iraq disaster. I can't even type about this stuff without getting angry even now. He has been the most incompetent leader of our lifetime! As much as I disagreed with them fiscally, I was willing to go Democrat, anything to repudiate Bush!Then two things happened: first, McCain's stand on immigration, which I thought was reasonable, made me sympathetic to him. I didn't think he had a chance for the nomination; like everyone else, I figured it was Hillary or Giuliani. Rudy scared me; Hillary I didn't like, but I figured she'd be better than Bush (who wouldn't be?) As McCain began to rise up the polls and I learned more about him (I had never really read his POW story) I liked him more and more, but I still disagreed with him about Iraq.The second thing is that I realized I had to separate in my mind the issue of Iraq into two categories: how we got there, and what to do now. The question "what to do now?" has to be asked with full objectivity, without letting my anger towards Bush and the Republicans for putting us into this situation getting in the way. And so the more I thought about it, I realized that McCain's answer, while not completely satisfactory, made more sense than the Democrats. I just think a pull out any time soon is far too dangerous.I also despised Romney and Giuliani and all of the right wing talk show hosts with their fanatical anti-immigration talk. So I supported McCain, but I never expected him to win the nomination. He surprised me, and his doing so is, I feel, a victory against the haters in the GOP. So that about sums it up.

 

[timschochet]

Updated list:1) Barack Obama is a plagiarizer.2) Barack Obama stages events at campaign rallies.3) Barack Obama is a Muslim.4) Barack Obama is all talk and no substance.5) Barack Obama bribes superdelegates.6) Barack Obama is breaking his word on public campaign financing.7) Michelle Obama hasn't been proud of America before now.8) Barack Obama is Black (and only cares about Black issues).9) Barack Obama isn't Black enough.10) Barack Obama won't say the Pledge of Allegiance or put his hand over his heart, and turns his back to the flag during the National Anthem.11) If Barack Obama doesn't win the Democratic nomination, he will team with Michael Bloomberg to run on an independent ticket and Bloomberg will foot up to $1 billion to fund the campaign.

Are you aware that "The Man" is a wonderful novel, written in the 1960's by Irving Wallace, the subject matter being an African American President?

 

[higgins]

Quick question though: Honestly, was McCain your first choice from the start? If so, why, and if not, who and why?

(1) I agree on the keep things constructive and civil 2) I'm not timmy, but I'll answer anyway:I was McCain from the start because I'm a moderate who leans right on defense. I have never voted GOP (I would have in 04 but lived in Texas at the time anyway...W had Texas). This will mark the first time I vote for a GOP candidate. After 9-11, I looked at geopolitics for the first time, and looked at every strategy offered from every angle, and weighed all the costs of actions or inactions.....which is why I'm at where I'm at....a moderate/independent in every sense other than right-leaning on defense, and having gone thru all the angles of (imho) what's best geopolitically.It helps that I agree with McCain on other issues (immigration, less spending, environment, etc.).

 

[Jeremy]

Can any WI FBGs report what they saw today when voting? TIA

I'll let you know in about an hour. I live in suburbs and I always vote over lunch. In the past, even during presidential elections, it's been very slow at that time, so it probably won't be a very good gauge.

There were about 10 people there at the time. I was voter#705. I don't know if that's high or not. I think it's about the same or maybe a little more than when I voted in the midterm elections. Most of the voters were middle aged white men and women. There was a cute little brunette that smiled at me as I walked out. Oh yeah. She's gotta be an Obama supporter. The ballot actually had about 10 names on it from the Democratic side and a few less on the Republican side. Fill in the dot for Obama and I'm in and out in 2 minutes.

 

[adonis]

Quick question though: Honestly, was McCain your first choice from the start? If so, why, and if not, who and why?

(1) I agree on the keep things constructive and civil 2) I'm not timmy, but I'll answer anyway:I was McCain from the start because I'm a moderate who leans right on defense. I have never voted GOP (I would have in 04 but lived in Texas at the time anyway...W had Texas). This will mark the first time I vote for a GOP candidate. After 9-11, I looked at geopolitics for the first time, and looked at every strategy offered from every angle, and weighed all the costs of actions or inactions.....which is why I'm at where I'm at....a moderate/independent in every sense other than right-leaning on defense, and having gone thru all the angles of (imho) what's best geopolitically.It helps that I agree with McCain on other issues (immigration, less spending, environment, etc.).

Thanks for the reply.

 

[My Hope Street Alias]

Can any WI FBGs report what they saw today when voting? TIA

I'll let you know in about an hour. I live in suburbs and I always vote over lunch. In the past, even during presidential elections, it's been very slow at that time, so it probably won't be a very good gauge.

There were about 10 people there at the time. I was voter#705. I don't know if that's high or not. I think it's about the same or maybe a little more than when I voted in the midterm elections. Most of the voters were middle aged white men and women. There was a cute little brunette that smiled at me as I walked out. Oh yeah. She's gotta be an Obama supporter. The ballot actually had about 10 names on it from the Democratic side and a few less on the Republican side. Fill in the dot for Obama and I'm in and out in 2 minutes.

Thanks. Any vibe given off at the polling place? Any pics of the brunette?

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Oh yeah... you can add he was a profiteering lawyer for slumlords to the listing of attacks.

 

[D_House]

Both Dem candidates call for increased science funding.

Calling for a war on "politicization" of federal science by political appointees, Thomas Kalil, Clinton's campaign adviser, pledged to "restore" the role of the president's science adviser, saying that the Bush White House's Office of Science and Technology Policy had been "banished to bureaucratic Siberia." He called for a doubling over 10 years of the basic research budgets at the U.S. National Science Foundation, Department of Energy, Pentagon, and National Institute of Standards and Technology.

Senator Barack Obama's (D–IL) campaign adviser Alec Ross spoke in more generalities, calling for a doubling of "basic science" funding in 5 years. He declined to say which agencies would get the boost. Ross did, though, repeatedly echo stump-speech lines by Obama calling for an end to the Washington influence of "special interests" and well-funded lobbyists. "We are going to restore science policy to science and scientists," said Ross. Among Obama's plans, Ross mentioned, was a call for $150 billion in new funds over the next decade to advance biofuels, hybrid cars, and improvements to the national power grid. We want "science not just for the sake of science," Ross said.

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

Quick question though: Honestly, was McCain your first choice from the start? If so, why, and if not, who and why?

(1) I agree on the keep things constructive and civil 2) I'm not timmy, but I'll answer anyway:I was McCain from the start because I'm a moderate who leans right on defense. I have never voted GOP (I would have in 04 but lived in Texas at the time anyway...W had Texas). This will mark the first time I vote for a GOP candidate. After 9-11, I looked at geopolitics for the first time, and looked at every strategy offered from every angle, and weighed all the costs of actions or inactions.....which is why I'm at where I'm at....a moderate/independent in every sense other than right-leaning on defense, and having gone thru all the angles of (imho) what's best geopolitically.It helps that I agree with McCain on other issues (immigration, less spending, environment, etc.).

Thanks for the reply.

Higgibaby is alright!

 

[Jeremy]

Can any WI FBGs report what they saw today when voting? TIA

I'll let you know in about an hour. I live in suburbs and I always vote over lunch. In the past, even during presidential elections, it's been very slow at that time, so it probably won't be a very good gauge.

There were about 10 people there at the time. I was voter#705. I don't know if that's high or not. I think it's about the same or maybe a little more than when I voted in the midterm elections. Most of the voters were middle aged white men and women. There was a cute little brunette that smiled at me as I walked out. Oh yeah. She's gotta be an Obama supporter. The ballot actually had about 10 names on it from the Democratic side and a few less on the Republican side. Fill in the dot for Obama and I'm in and out in 2 minutes.

Thanks. Any vibe given off at the polling place? Any pics of the brunette?

Other than the Brunette, it looked like a Huckabee crowd. No pics. I was getting in my car just as she was going in.