*** Official Barack Obama FBG campaign headquarters *** (4 Viewers)

[NCCommish]

MT, from my experience with racists, there are annoyed that blacks live in the confines of the US. Maybe it will, but I am unsure that racists will be any more annoyed that a person who is half-black who is president will cause them any more distress.

There are people it will make hate life. There will be much gnashing of teeth and cursing. It is a fun side effect.

NCC, can you see any other reason to think that Obama being black is a reason for a white person to vote for him?

I think all the positives have been covered. For me it isn't about his race though.

 

[Saints-Man]

MT, from my experience with racists, there are annoyed that blacks live in the confines of the US. Maybe it will, but I am unsure that racists will be any more annoyed that a person who is half-black who is president will cause them any more distress.

There are people it will make hate life. There will be much gnashing of teeth and cursing. It is a fun side effect.

NCC, can you see any other reason to think that Obama being black is a reason for a white person to vote for him?

I think all the positives have been covered. For me it isn't about his race though.

I think there have only been two:1) Angering the racists

2) Promoting better race relations.

I don't see how #2 will manifest itself in any way. We have had black mayors and black governors, and none of the attitudes have changed. I fail to see how having a black president will change any of this.

I support Obama also and I just find it difficult to perceive white people finding it a positive he is black. It is of no bearing. I can understand fully black people being proud and excited. That is always true whenever one of your "own", no matter how you define it, does or accomplishes something notable.

 

[NCCommish]

MT, from my experience with racists, there are annoyed that blacks live in the confines of the US. Maybe it will, but I am unsure that racists will be any more annoyed that a person who is half-black who is president will cause them any more distress.

There are people it will make hate life. There will be much gnashing of teeth and cursing. It is a fun side effect.

NCC, can you see any other reason to think that Obama being black is a reason for a white person to vote for him?

I think all the positives have been covered. For me it isn't about his race though.

I think there have only been two:1) Angering the racists

2) Promoting better race relations.

I don't see how #2 will manifest itself in any way. We have had black mayors and black governors, and none of the attitudes have changed. I fail to see how having a black president will change any of this.

I support Obama also and I just find it difficult to perceive white people finding it a positive he is black. It is of no bearing. I can understand fully black people being proud and excited. That is always true whenever one of your "own", no matter how you define it, does or accomplishes something notable.

Well I do think it is a huge deal for race relations if we elect a black president. I mean we are talking the most powerful leader in the world here. That ain't like a mayor. I also think foreign relations with certain countries may be a bit easier. Lastly I think it shows the world that anyone really can make it here. Regardless of race.

 

[Homer J Simpson]

MT, from my experience with racists, there are annoyed that blacks live in the confines of the US. Maybe it will, but I am unsure that racists will be any more annoyed that a person who is half-black who is president will cause them any more distress.

There are people it will make hate life. There will be much gnashing of teeth and cursing. It is a fun side effect.

NCC, can you see any other reason to think that Obama being black is a reason for a white person to vote for him?

I think all the positives have been covered. For me it isn't about his race though.

I think there have only been two:1) Angering the racists

2) Promoting better race relations.

I don't see how #2 will manifest itself in any way. We have had black mayors and black governors, and none of the attitudes have changed. I fail to see how having a black president will change any of this.

I support Obama also and I just find it difficult to perceive white people finding it a positive he is black. It is of no bearing. I can understand fully black people being proud and excited. That is always true whenever one of your "own", no matter how you define it, does or accomplishes something notable.

Well I do think it is a huge deal for race relations if we elect a black president. I mean we are talking the most powerful leader in the world here. That ain't like a mayor. I also think foreign relations with certain countries may be a bit easier. Lastly I think it shows the world that anyone really can make it here. Regardless of race.

That last point is key IMO. We're seen by a lot of people around the world as a very racist nation. Whether that's right or wrong or hypocritical or whatever, it doesn't matter...if we have a President Obama that perception is blown out of the water. And despite the protestations of many posters here (the usual suspects need not be mentioned) our reputation truly matters.The aforementioned annoyance of racist chumbuckets is a nice bonus. As is the bonus it can give to the black community, especially the kids, that might see things a little differently.

As much as you might want to discount race as a factor, it is almost impossible in my opinion to do so. It can be a very small factor, but it's still something that plays a role.

And btw, I'm so proud that I just typed a relatively coherent point or two while completely blind drunk. Yay me!

 

[Clayton Gray]

MT, from my experience with racists, there are annoyed that blacks live in the confines of the US. Maybe it will, but I am unsure that racists will be any more annoyed that a person who is half-black who is president will cause them any more distress.

There are people it will make hate life. There will be much gnashing of teeth and cursing. It is a fun side effect.

NCC, can you see any other reason to think that Obama being black is a reason for a white person to vote for him?

Another line of thought:Other countries may simply see the United States as old white men telling them what to do. With Obama as President, we change in their eyes.

 

[Saints-Man]

MT, from my experience with racists, there are annoyed that blacks live in the confines of the US. Maybe it will, but I am unsure that racists will be any more annoyed that a person who is half-black who is president will cause them any more distress.

There are people it will make hate life. There will be much gnashing of teeth and cursing. It is a fun side effect.

NCC, can you see any other reason to think that Obama being black is a reason for a white person to vote for him?

Another line of thought:Other countries may simply see the United States as old white men telling them what to do. With Obama as President, we change in their eyes.

To what, CG? A young black man telling them what to do? While Bush's foreign policy has been heavy handed, moreso than other US president, most presidents since FDR have been seen as heavy handed by the world at large. Obama, unless he dismantles the CIA and retreats into isolationism, will not reverse this trend. It will certainly compare better than Bush, but that is not saying much. I am also skeptical of whether nations will all of a sudden see us as non-racists, for those that do. That is a deep in-grained belief, and one that will not be changed by an election, even the election of the POTUS.Don't misunderstand, I am not saying these are reasons NOT to vote for Obama. I just feel they are projections of hope that will not have any true impact. His policies and abilties will, but not his race.

 

[Homer J Simpson]

MT, from my experience with racists, there are annoyed that blacks live in the confines of the US. Maybe it will, but I am unsure that racists will be any more annoyed that a person who is half-black who is president will cause them any more distress.

There are people it will make hate life. There will be much gnashing of teeth and cursing. It is a fun side effect.

NCC, can you see any other reason to think that Obama being black is a reason for a white person to vote for him?

Another line of thought:Other countries may simply see the United States as old white men telling them what to do. With Obama as President, we change in their eyes.

To what, CG? A young black man telling them what to do? While Bush's foreign policy has been heavy handed, moreso than other US president, most presidents since FDR have been seen as heavy handed by the world at large. Obama, unless he dismantles the CIA and retreats into isolationism, will not reverse this trend. It will certainly compare better than Bush, but that is not saying much. I am also skeptical of whether nations will all of a sudden see us as non-racists, for those that do. That is a deep in-grained belief, and one that will not be changed by an election, even the election of the POTUS.Don't misunderstand, I am not saying these are reasons NOT to vote for Obama. I just feel they are projections of hope that will not have any true impact. His policies and abilties will, but not his race.

On a logical level, I get what you're saying. But I think you're ignoring the image/PR/branding factor that's in play here. I know you think it doesn't matter, but it absolutely 100% does.Obama could be a total pragmatist that doesn't really change anything policy-wise, but just based on who he is and what he looks like, the image of America in the eyes of the world will be changed.

 

[Saints-Man]

....

On a logical level, I get what you're saying. But I think you're ignoring the image/PR/branding factor that's in play here. I know you think it doesn't matter, but it absolutely 100% does.

Obama could be a total pragmatist that doesn't really change anything policy-wise, but just based on who he is and what he looks like, the image of America in the eyes of the world will be changed.

Let's examine this premise, HS. Will it be enough for racists to not grind their teeth in anguish? A brand may change someone's views whose are not that strong, almost ambivalent. I can agree with that. For those who are convinced that America is a racist country, I just don't believe a brand is powerful enough to do that. Let's say that the image of America in the eyes of the world will be changed. What, in reality, does that mean? Will Iran give up its nuclear ambitions? Will Darfur stop its massacres? Will the situation in Somalia improve any? Will the civil rights of the Chinese people improve any? What good does changing the image of America in the eyes of world if there is no tangible benefit to the citizens of the world?There was an interview on NPR this week wtih a person who feels that the anti-American sentiment has very little to do with GWB and is more a result of US being the lone world superpower. As he notes via surveys, since the fall of the USSR anti-American sentiment has been rising steadily through the years all over the globe. I guess my viewpoint is influenced by that.

Like I said, I am an Obama supporter but I am also wary of setting the bar so high that they can not possibly be met. I find it a bit unproductive to guess what is in other people's minds or what their attitude might be if a certain situation happens.

 

[Homer J Simpson]

....

On a logical level, I get what you're saying. But I think you're ignoring the image/PR/branding factor that's in play here. I know you think it doesn't matter, but it absolutely 100% does.

Obama could be a total pragmatist that doesn't really change anything policy-wise, but just based on who he is and what he looks like, the image of America in the eyes of the world will be changed.

Let's examine this premise, HS. Will it be enough for racists to not grind their teeth in anguish? A brand may change someone's views whose are not that strong, almost ambivalent. I can agree with that. For those who are convinced that America is a racist country, I just don't believe a brand is powerful enough to do that. Let's say that the image of America in the eyes of the world will be changed. What, in reality, does that mean? Will Iran give up its nuclear ambitions? Will Darfur stop its massacres? Will the situation in Somalia improve any? Will the civil rights of the Chinese people improve any? What good does changing the image of America in the eyes of world if there is no tangible benefit to the citizens of the world?There was an interview on NPR this week wtih a person who feels that the anti-American sentiment has very little to do with GWB and is more a result of US being the lone world superpower. As he notes via surveys, since the fall of the USSR anti-American sentiment has been rising steadily through the years all over the globe. I guess my viewpoint is influenced by that.

Like I said, I am an Obama supporter but I am also wary of setting the bar so high that they can not possibly be met. I find it a bit unproductive to guess what is in other people's minds or what their attitude might be if a certain situation happens.

Fair points.I disagree with a few, but I'm borderline rheetarded right now so I'm not going to try and make any counterpoints.

I'll hit the training room and come back when I'm recovered.

 

[bigbottom]

Obama is now up five points in Montana. Montana! Bush won there by 20 in 04. Wow.

Polling as of now has Obama leading in every single state that Kerry won in '04. June polls also have Obama leading in Colorado, New Mexico, Iowa, Indiana, Ohio and Virginia, all states won by Bush in '04. Additionally, Obama appears to be closing the gap in Florida, with three of six polls conducted in June showing Obama with a lead (the first time any poll has given Obama a lead over McCain in the state). Then there are states like Montana and Missouri where at least one June poll shows Obama with a lead. Sure the election is a ways off, but McCain seems to be going the wrong direction in terms of electoral math.And what happened to the conventional wisdom that the long, drawn out battle with Hillary was damaging Obama's chances in the general. Obama is leading McCain by 5 points nationwide. Would the gap have even been wider had Hillary conceded earlier? Or did all the added exposure give Obama a boost while McCain was relegated to back page status? Whatever the case, McCain needs to start making a move.

What about Georgia?

McCain has consistently been ahead in Georgia in every poll that I've seen. A July 2nd poll only has McCain ahead by 2 points, but that particular poll appears to be skewed a bit towards Obama, with other polls giving McCain an 8-10 point lead.

 

[The Juggernaut]

MT, from my experience with racists, there are annoyed that blacks live in the confines of the US. Maybe it will, but I am unsure that racists will be any more annoyed that a person who is half-black who is president will cause them any more distress.

There are people it will make hate life. There will be much gnashing of teeth and cursing. It is a fun side effect.

NCC, can you see any other reason to think that Obama being black is a reason for a white person to vote for him?

I think all the positives have been covered. For me it isn't about his race though.

I think there have only been two:1) Angering the racists

2) Promoting better race relations.

I don't see how #2 will manifest itself in any way. We have had black mayors and black governors, and none of the attitudes have changed. I fail to see how having a black president will change any of this.

I support Obama also and I just find it difficult to perceive white people finding it a positive he is black. It is of no bearing. I can understand fully black people being proud and excited. That is always true whenever one of your "own", no matter how you define it, does or accomplishes something notable.

Well I do think it is a huge deal for race relations if we elect a black president. I mean we are talking the most powerful leader in the world here. That ain't like a mayor. I also think foreign relations with certain countries may be a bit easier. Lastly I think it shows the world that anyone really can make it here. Regardless of race.

Annoy the racists.

Perhaps take steps to enlightening their bass-ackward views.

Improve our image worldwide as the "Land of the Free."

Advantage in foriegn relations.

I also just like the idea of breaking down a barrier. One that should have probably been knocked down a long time ago, but got derailed somewhere in the late 60's. We, as Americans, like the idea of being able to tell our children that they can grow up to be anything they want, but for a good amount of those kids, that's just not true. If Obama can win this thing, we'll be that much closer.

ETA: I also think it's high time we had a Prez that listens to rap.

 

[Saints-Man]

...



Annoy the racists.

Perhaps take steps to enlightening their bass-ackward views.

Improve our image worldwide as the "Land of the Free."

Advantage in foriegn relations.

I also just like the idea of breaking down a barrier. One that should have probably been knocked down a long time ago, but got derailed somewhere in the late 60's. We, as Americans, like the idea of being able to tell our children that they can grow up to be anything they want, but for a good amount of those kids, that's just not true. If Obama can win this thing, we'll be that much closer.

ETA: I also think it's high time we had a Prez that listens to rap.

If you get your jollies out of annoying people, #1 will do the trick.As for #2, please explain how this will enlighten their view. I am sure they meet high quality black people in their everyday lives and don't recognize that as a reason to change their view.

#3, I can't see how someone who currently views "Land of the Free" as a hollow mantra will change their mind when this occurs. If they currently see America as a place full of racial hatred, electing a black man president will not change their mind. America has a long enough history that people have already made up their minds about this.

#4, please explain. Foreign relations are an excercise in nations looking out for themselves. I see in no way the simple fact that Obama being black will help this. Obama is a an intelligent and skilled politician and will be helped by those qualities, not by the color of his skin.

Again, I think Obama is a an intelligent and skilled politician. He has my vote. But the things you are projecting solely because of his race I just can't agree.

 

[NCCommish]

...



Annoy the racists.

Perhaps take steps to enlightening their bass-ackward views.

Improve our image worldwide as the "Land of the Free."

Advantage in foriegn relations.

I also just like the idea of breaking down a barrier. One that should have probably been knocked down a long time ago, but got derailed somewhere in the late 60's. We, as Americans, like the idea of being able to tell our children that they can grow up to be anything they want, but for a good amount of those kids, that's just not true. If Obama can win this thing, we'll be that much closer.

ETA: I also think it's high time we had a Prez that listens to rap.

If you get your jollies out of annoying people, #1 will do the trick.As for #2, please explain how this will enlighten their view. I am sure they meet high quality black people in their everyday lives and don't recognize that as a reason to change their view.

#3, I can't see how someone who currently views "Land of the Free" as a hollow mantra will change their mind when this occurs. If they currently see America as a place full of racial hatred, electing a black man president will not change their mind. America has a long enough history that people have already made up their minds about this.

#4, please explain. Foreign relations are an excercise in nations looking out for themselves. I see in no way the simple fact that Obama being black will help this. Obama is a an intelligent and skilled politician and will be helped by those qualities, not by the color of his skin.

Again, I think Obama is a an intelligent and skilled politician. He has my vote. But the things you are projecting solely because of his race I just can't agree.

I'm not very much into symbols. But the rest of the world seems to be. Symbolically the election of a Black man to the White House will be huge and it will have reprecussions far and wide.

 

[Saints-Man]

....I'm not very much into symbols. But the rest of the world seems to be. Symbolically the election of a Black man to the White House will be huge and it will have reprecussions far and wide.

Again, how will these repurcussions manifest themselves?I remember there was several threads over the years with the premise that some citizens of other countries don't like GWB. I remember specifically when Sarkozy won the presidency of France, in which he was the underdog in the beginning, I made the point that the dislike for GWB couldn't be that strong since Sarkozy ran on a platform of being strong allies with the US and GWB specifically. The counter-argument to this was that people will vote in their own self-interest every time. So, even though GWB was disliked, it would not affect an election because people vote for their self-interests.I am following that same train of thought here. People will follow their own self-interests worldwide. Obama's intelligence and political ability will be tested, but his race will have no factor. I don't see how this is any different than the Sarkozy situation. The symbol that he represents will have no practical effect, but his(Obama's, that is) abiliites will.President Carter, by most accounts, was well liked in the black community. He too, in a much smaller way, was seen as a symbol for the black community. However, this like for Carter certainly didn't stop the riots in Miami after the officers who beat Arthur McDuffie to death were acquitted. The riot lasted for 3 days.

 

[NCCommish]

....I'm not very much into symbols. But the rest of the world seems to be. Symbolically the election of a Black man to the White House will be huge and it will have reprecussions far and wide.

Again, how will these repurcussions manifest themselves?I remember there was several threads over the years with the premise that some citizens of other countries don't like GWB. I remember specifically when Sarkozy won the presidency of France, in which he was the underdog in the beginning, I made the point that the dislike for GWB couldn't be that strong since Sarkozy ran on a platform of being strong allies with the US and GWB specifically. The counter-argument to this was that people will vote in their own self-interest every time. So, even though GWB was disliked, it would not affect an election because people vote for their self-interests.I am following that same train of thought here. People will follow their own self-interests worldwide. Obama's intelligence and political ability will be tested, but his race will have no factor. I don't see how this is any different than the Sarkozy situation. The symbol that he represents will have no practical effect, but his(Obama's, that is) abiliites will.President Carter, by most accounts, was well liked in the black community. He too, in a much smaller way, was seen as a symbol for the black community. However, this like for Carter certainly didn't stop the riots in Miami after the officers who beat Arthur McDuffie to death were acquitted. The riot lasted for 3 days.

I don't think you can realistically compare the impact of electing Obama to the impact of electing any white guy president on the black community. The impact is likely to be more subtle than no riots ever happen again. And the riots in Miami were about a whole bunch of issues McDuffie was just the last straw.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

 

[NCCommish]

 

[NCCommish]

This guy realy deserves his own thread but I had to include one more here "

" One of the funniest things I have heard in some time.

 

[shining path]

 

[NCCommish]

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Oh my ... he has a song about

 

[Saints-Man]

....

I'm not very much into symbols. But the rest of the world seems to be. Symbolically the election of a Black man to the White House will be huge and it will have reprecussions far and wide.

Again, how will these repurcussions manifest themselves?I remember there was several threads over the years with the premise that some citizens of other countries don't like GWB. I remember specifically when Sarkozy won the presidency of France, in which he was the underdog in the beginning, I made the point that the dislike for GWB couldn't be that strong since Sarkozy ran on a platform of being strong allies with the US and GWB specifically. The counter-argument to this was that people will vote in their own self-interest every time. So, even though GWB was disliked, it would not affect an election because people vote for their self-interests.

I am following that same train of thought here. People will follow their own self-interests worldwide. Obama's intelligence and political ability will be tested, but his race will have no factor. I don't see how this is any different than the Sarkozy situation. The symbol that he represents will have no practical effect, but his(Obama's, that is) abiliites will.

President Carter, by most accounts, was well liked in the black community. He too, in a much smaller way, was seen as a symbol for the black community. However, this like for Carter certainly didn't stop the riots in Miami after the officers who beat Arthur McDuffie to death were acquitted. The riot lasted for 3 days.

I don't think you can realistically compare the impact of electing Obama to the impact of electing any white guy president on the black community. The impact is likely to be more subtle than no riots ever happen again. And the riots in Miami were about a whole bunch of issues McDuffie was just the last straw.

I can agree with that. However, we haven't had any race riots during Bush's tenure either, so if we are going to use that as a measure then Bush has been good for race relations. My issue with this is that is all based on self-affirming faith. The facts, the science if you will, does not support this. When black mayors(and subsequently governors) were elected(happened during my lifetime in New Orleans), the same thing was predicted. Now that a black man was elected mayor, race relations in the city would change was a mantra often heard. Not only was a black man elected in 1977, no white mayor has been elected since that time. Racial tensions in the city most assuredly did not change.

And that is a part of science, being able to predict based on a certain situation. No one has been able to mention anything tangible, nothing scientific, only faith-based platitudes that can't be measured. Isn't this akin to praying for rain and then the fact that it rains crediting it to the prayer???

People, in general, will continue to act in a way that balances their self interests and what they feel are in the best interests of society. However, the race of the president will have no measurable, discernable effect on this. Obama's prodigious skill may have, but not his race. To believe that is solely an article of faith, something that can be neither proved nor disproved. It should not be stated as scientific fact.

An interesting question....will Obama appoint more black people for government postions(the ones under his control) than BClinton & GBush? Say what you will about Bush, but he selected blacks for the most influential positions in his cabinet in Powel & Rice.

 

[NCCommish]

....

I'm not very much into symbols. But the rest of the world seems to be. Symbolically the election of a Black man to the White House will be huge and it will have reprecussions far and wide.

Again, how will these repurcussions manifest themselves?I remember there was several threads over the years with the premise that some citizens of other countries don't like GWB. I remember specifically when Sarkozy won the presidency of France, in which he was the underdog in the beginning, I made the point that the dislike for GWB couldn't be that strong since Sarkozy ran on a platform of being strong allies with the US and GWB specifically. The counter-argument to this was that people will vote in their own self-interest every time. So, even though GWB was disliked, it would not affect an election because people vote for their self-interests.

I am following that same train of thought here. People will follow their own self-interests worldwide. Obama's intelligence and political ability will be tested, but his race will have no factor. I don't see how this is any different than the Sarkozy situation. The symbol that he represents will have no practical effect, but his(Obama's, that is) abiliites will.

President Carter, by most accounts, was well liked in the black community. He too, in a much smaller way, was seen as a symbol for the black community. However, this like for Carter certainly didn't stop the riots in Miami after the officers who beat Arthur McDuffie to death were acquitted. The riot lasted for 3 days.

I don't think you can realistically compare the impact of electing Obama to the impact of electing any white guy president on the black community. The impact is likely to be more subtle than no riots ever happen again. And the riots in Miami were about a whole bunch of issues McDuffie was just the last straw.

I can agree with that. However, we haven't had any race riots during Bush's tenure either, so if we are going to use that as a measure then Bush has been good for race relations. My issue with this is that is all based on self-affirming faith. The facts, the science if you will, does not support this. When black mayors(and subsequently governors) were elected(happened during my lifetime in New Orleans), the same thing was predicted. Now that a black man was elected mayor, race relations in the city would change was a mantra often heard. Not only was a black man elected in 1977, no white mayor has been elected since that time. Racial tensions in the city most assuredly did not change.

And that is a part of science, being able to predict based on a certain situation. No one has been able to mention anything tangible, nothing scientific, only faith-based platitudes that can't be measured. Isn't this akin to praying for rain and then the fact that it rains crediting it to the prayer???

People, in general, will continue to act in a way that balances their self interests and what they feel are in the best interests of society. However, the race of the president will have no measurable, discernable effect on this. Obama's prodigious skill may have, but not his race. To believe that is solely an article of faith, something that can be neither proved nor disproved. It should not be stated as scientific fact.

An interesting question....will Obama appoint more black people for government postions(the ones under his control) than BClinton & GBush? Say what you will about Bush, but he selected blacks for the most influential positions in his cabinet in Powel & Rice.

It seems to me my friend that you are the only one using that as a yardstick.

 

[Saints-Man]

....

I don't think you can realistically compare the impact of electing Obama to the impact of electing any white guy president on the black community. The impact is likely to be more subtle than no riots ever happen again. And the riots in Miami were about a whole bunch of issues McDuffie was just the last straw.

I can agree with that. However, we haven't had any race riots during Bush's tenure either, so if we are going to use that as a measure then Bush has been good for race relations. My issue with this is that is all based on self-affirming faith. The facts, the science if you will, does not support this. When black mayors(and subsequently governors) were elected(happened during my lifetime in New Orleans), the same thing was predicted. Now that a black man was elected mayor, race relations in the city would change was a mantra often heard. Not only was a black man elected in 1977, no white mayor has been elected since that time. Racial tensions in the city most assuredly did not change.

And that is a part of science, being able to predict based on a certain situation. No one has been able to mention anything tangible, nothing scientific, only faith-based platitudes that can't be measured. Isn't this akin to praying for rain and then the fact that it rains crediting it to the prayer???

People, in general, will continue to act in a way that balances their self interests and what they feel are in the best interests of society. However, the race of the president will have no measurable, discernable effect on this. Obama's prodigious skill may have, but not his race. To believe that is solely an article of faith, something that can be neither proved nor disproved. It should not be stated as scientific fact.

An interesting question....will Obama appoint more black people for government postions(the ones under his control) than BClinton & GBush? Say what you will about Bush, but he selected blacks for the most influential positions in his cabinet in Powel & Rice.

It seems to me my friend that you are the only one using that as a yardstick.

I was solely usiing that as a response to the bolded portion of your post. If I read your post correctly, you are saying that one impact of Obama being black is that race riots may not happen. With that sentence you bolded, I am just trying to point out that this is all a matter of faith, and self-affirming faith at that.In my post that you bolded it does state "if we are going to use that". I wasn't arguing it should or should not be used, so I am not the one applying it as a yardstick.

 

[NCCommish]

....

I don't think you can realistically compare the impact of electing Obama to the impact of electing any white guy president on the black community. The impact is likely to be more subtle than no riots ever happen again. And the riots in Miami were about a whole bunch of issues McDuffie was just the last straw.

I can agree with that. However, we haven't had any race riots during Bush's tenure either, so if we are going to use that as a measure then Bush has been good for race relations. My issue with this is that is all based on self-affirming faith. The facts, the science if you will, does not support this. When black mayors(and subsequently governors) were elected(happened during my lifetime in New Orleans), the same thing was predicted. Now that a black man was elected mayor, race relations in the city would change was a mantra often heard. Not only was a black man elected in 1977, no white mayor has been elected since that time. Racial tensions in the city most assuredly did not change.

And that is a part of science, being able to predict based on a certain situation. No one has been able to mention anything tangible, nothing scientific, only faith-based platitudes that can't be measured. Isn't this akin to praying for rain and then the fact that it rains crediting it to the prayer???

People, in general, will continue to act in a way that balances their self interests and what they feel are in the best interests of society. However, the race of the president will have no measurable, discernable effect on this. Obama's prodigious skill may have, but not his race. To believe that is solely an article of faith, something that can be neither proved nor disproved. It should not be stated as scientific fact.

An interesting question....will Obama appoint more black people for government postions(the ones under his control) than BClinton & GBush? Say what you will about Bush, but he selected blacks for the most influential positions in his cabinet in Powel & Rice.

It seems to me my friend that you are the only one using that as a yardstick.

I was solely usiing that as a response to the bolded portion of your post. If I read your post correctly, you are saying that one impact of Obama being black is that race riots may not happen. With that sentence you bolded, I am just trying to point out that this is all a matter of faith, and self-affirming faith at that.In my post that you bolded it does state "if we are going to use that". I wasn't arguing it should or should not be used, so I am not the one applying it as a yardstick.

You read wrong. I said the impact would be more sublte than that.

 

[Saints-Man]

....

I don't think you can realistically compare the impact of electing Obama to the impact of electing any white guy president on the black community. The impact is likely to be more subtle than no riots ever happen again. And the riots in Miami were about a whole bunch of issues McDuffie was just the last straw.

I can agree with that. However, we haven't had any race riots during Bush's tenure either, so if we are going to use that as a measure then Bush has been good for race relations. My issue with this is that is all based on self-affirming faith. The facts, the science if you will, does not support this. When black mayors(and subsequently governors) were elected(happened during my lifetime in New Orleans), the same thing was predicted. Now that a black man was elected mayor, race relations in the city would change was a mantra often heard. Not only was a black man elected in 1977, no white mayor has been elected since that time. Racial tensions in the city most assuredly did not change.

And that is a part of science, being able to predict based on a certain situation. No one has been able to mention anything tangible, nothing scientific, only faith-based platitudes that can't be measured. Isn't this akin to praying for rain and then the fact that it rains crediting it to the prayer???

People, in general, will continue to act in a way that balances their self interests and what they feel are in the best interests of society. However, the race of the president will have no measurable, discernable effect on this. Obama's prodigious skill may have, but not his race. To believe that is solely an article of faith, something that can be neither proved nor disproved. It should not be stated as scientific fact.

An interesting question....will Obama appoint more black people for government postions(the ones under his control) than BClinton & GBush? Say what you will about Bush, but he selected blacks for the most influential positions in his cabinet in Powel & Rice.

It seems to me my friend that you are the only one using that as a yardstick.

I was solely usiing that as a response to the bolded portion of your post. If I read your post correctly, you are saying that one impact of Obama being black is that race riots may not happen. With that sentence you bolded, I am just trying to point out that this is all a matter of faith, and self-affirming faith at that.In my post that you bolded it does state "if we are going to use that". I wasn't arguing it should or should not be used, so I am not the one applying it as a yardstick.

You read wrong. I said the impact would be more sublte than that.

I just read again. I see how I misread that. My bad.

 

[BuddyKnuckles]

....

I'm not very much into symbols. But the rest of the world seems to be. Symbolically the election of a Black man to the White House will be huge and it will have reprecussions far and wide.

Again, how will these repurcussions manifest themselves?I remember there was several threads over the years with the premise that some citizens of other countries don't like GWB. I remember specifically when Sarkozy won the presidency of France, in which he was the underdog in the beginning, I made the point that the dislike for GWB couldn't be that strong since Sarkozy ran on a platform of being strong allies with the US and GWB specifically. The counter-argument to this was that people will vote in their own self-interest every time. So, even though GWB was disliked, it would not affect an election because people vote for their self-interests.

I am following that same train of thought here. People will follow their own self-interests worldwide. Obama's intelligence and political ability will be tested, but his race will have no factor. I don't see how this is any different than the Sarkozy situation. The symbol that he represents will have no practical effect, but his(Obama's, that is) abiliites will.

President Carter, by most accounts, was well liked in the black community. He too, in a much smaller way, was seen as a symbol for the black community. However, this like for Carter certainly didn't stop the riots in Miami after the officers who beat Arthur McDuffie to death were acquitted. The riot lasted for 3 days.

I don't think you can realistically compare the impact of electing Obama to the impact of electing any white guy president on the black community. The impact is likely to be more subtle than no riots ever happen again. And the riots in Miami were about a whole bunch of issues McDuffie was just the last straw.

I can agree with that. However, we haven't had any race riots during Bush's tenure either, so if we are going to use that as a measure then Bush has been good for race relations. My issue with this is that is all based on self-affirming faith. The facts, the science if you will, does not support this. When black mayors(and subsequently governors) were elected(happened during my lifetime in New Orleans), the same thing was predicted. Now that a black man was elected mayor, race relations in the city would change was a mantra often heard. Not only was a black man elected in 1977, no white mayor has been elected since that time. Racial tensions in the city most assuredly did not change.

And that is a part of science, being able to predict based on a certain situation. No one has been able to mention anything tangible, nothing scientific, only faith-based platitudes that can't be measured. Isn't this akin to praying for rain and then the fact that it rains crediting it to the prayer???

People, in general, will continue to act in a way that balances their self interests and what they feel are in the best interests of society. However, the race of the president will have no measurable, discernable effect on this. Obama's prodigious skill may have, but not his race. To believe that is solely an article of faith, something that can be neither proved nor disproved. It should not be stated as scientific fact.

An interesting question....will Obama appoint more black people for government postions(the ones under his control) than BClinton & GBush? Say what you will about Bush, but he selected blacks for the most influential positions in his cabinet in Powel & Rice.

i have one. If Obama is elected, at some point, maybe immediately maybe years from now, there will be a young black boy who will actually believe that he can be anything he wants to be. That there is no imaginary ceiling. That the American dream exists for him as promised. This person may not even be a US Citizen. Maybe he's from a poor African country, or an impoverished Caribbean island. And maybe his dream isnt to be POTUS, but to come to the US, get an education and become a leader in his field of choice.I dont know the name of this person right now. But i can guarantee you that i will be able to find one. And thats a measurable, tangible, real impact.

As for global, political impact, it may have a short term effect on how the US is viewed. But, i agree that policy and actions will again quickly determine any long term view of the US.

 

[shining path]

 

[Saints-Man]

....i have one. If Obama is elected, at some point, maybe immediately maybe years from now, there will be a young black boy who will actually believe that he can be anything he wants to be. That there is no imaginary ceiling. That the American dream exists for him as promised. This person may not even be a US Citizen. Maybe he's from a poor African country, or an impoverished Caribbean island. And maybe his dream isnt to be POTUS, but to come to the US, get an education and become a leader in his field of choice.I dont know the name of this person right now. But i can guarantee you that i will be able to find one. And thats a measurable, tangible, real impact.As for global, political impact, it may have a short term effect on how the US is viewed. But, i agree that policy and actions will again quickly determine any long term view of the US.

Even if Obama loses the election(which is looking very unlikely at this point), can you guarantee the same thing won't happen? MLK, Medger Evers, & Malcolm X have all inspired to do the same thing without being elected POTUS.

 

[flufhed]

I must admit, I've lost some of my passion for the cause as the election has gone on. Towards the end with Hillary, his campaign seems to be more run of the mill than I had hoped.I don't think it's necessarily all that bad, but the newness is really gone, and his campaign is being run much like campaigns in the past, albeit very efficiently and strategically.I'm not saying I'm changing my mind about him, but I just wonder how much change someone can really bring during a campaign where he's under such scrutiny for every word, every appearance, every phrase. Does our system allow a candidate to be himself in a campaign, or does the constant assault and media attention necessitate this kind of campaign? I'll just hope that Obama is like a space shuttle, and this campaign is just the part of the ship that is used to launch him into space, and after he's cleared the atmosphere, it drops off and returns to earth and then he's free to steer on his own. Anyway, just thought it was interesting. As it heats back up, I might get more interested, but for now I'm still a supporter, just that a lot of excitement is gone.

Wait, so it really WAS just about hope and change?

 

[adonis]

I must admit, I've lost some of my passion for the cause as the election has gone on. Towards the end with Hillary, his campaign seems to be more run of the mill than I had hoped.I don't think it's necessarily all that bad, but the newness is really gone, and his campaign is being run much like campaigns in the past, albeit very efficiently and strategically.I'm not saying I'm changing my mind about him, but I just wonder how much change someone can really bring during a campaign where he's under such scrutiny for every word, every appearance, every phrase. Does our system allow a candidate to be himself in a campaign, or does the constant assault and media attention necessitate this kind of campaign? I'll just hope that Obama is like a space shuttle, and this campaign is just the part of the ship that is used to launch him into space, and after he's cleared the atmosphere, it drops off and returns to earth and then he's free to steer on his own. Anyway, just thought it was interesting. As it heats back up, I might get more interested, but for now I'm still a supporter, just that a lot of excitement is gone.

Wait, so it really WAS just about hope and change?

What are you talking about?I still support him based on the policies and his substance, not "hope and change", it's just a lot of the energy has died down as he's settled into a traditional general campaign. He's still the best candidate by far, but it's just sad to see much of the same type of politics going on now. Things will likely look up during the debates, or after the convention, but now it just seems like press-release after press release distorting positions, attacking opponents, criticizing relations - from both sides.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Obama is now up five points in Montana. Montana! Bush won there by 20 in 04. Wow.

Polling as of now has Obama leading in every single state that Kerry won in '04. June polls also have Obama leading in Colorado, New Mexico, Iowa, Indiana, Ohio and Virginia, all states won by Bush in '04. Additionally, Obama appears to be closing the gap in Florida, with three of six polls conducted in June showing Obama with a lead (the first time any poll has given Obama a lead over McCain in the state). Then there are states like Montana and Missouri where at least one June poll shows Obama with a lead. Sure the election is a ways off, but McCain seems to be going the wrong direction in terms of electoral math.And what happened to the conventional wisdom that the long, drawn out battle with Hillary was damaging Obama's chances in the general. Obama is leading McCain by 5 points nationwide. Would the gap have even been wider had Hillary conceded earlier? Or did all the added exposure give Obama a boost while McCain was relegated to back page status? Whatever the case, McCain needs to start making a move.

What about Georgia?

McCain has consistently been ahead in Georgia in every poll that I've seen. A July 2nd poll only has McCain ahead by 2 points, but that particular poll appears to be skewed a bit towards Obama, with other polls giving McCain an 8-10 point lead.

Thanks. It looks like it is on the table though.

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

Looks like Obama is going to accept the nomination at Investco field...

Link

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

....

i have one. If Obama is elected, at some point, maybe immediately maybe years from now, there will be a young black boy who will actually believe that he can be anything he wants to be. That there is no imaginary ceiling. That the American dream exists for him as promised. This person may not even be a US Citizen. Maybe he's from a poor African country, or an impoverished Caribbean island. And maybe his dream isnt to be POTUS, but to come to the US, get an education and become a leader in his field of choice.

I dont know the name of this person right now. But i can guarantee you that i will be able to find one. And thats a measurable, tangible, real impact.

As for global, political impact, it may have a short term effect on how the US is viewed. But, i agree that policy and actions will again quickly determine any long term view of the US.

Even if Obama loses the election(which is looking very unlikely at this point), can you guarantee the same thing won't happen? MLK, Medger Evers, & Malcolm X have all inspired to do the same thing without being elected POTUS.

So we've gone from asking why something might be viewed as a positive to asking for guarantees?

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

I don't get this smiley. Are you surprised Fox News actually has some news?

 

[bigbottom]

Looks like Obama is going to accept the nomination at Investco field...

Link

Is it too late for McCain to rent out the Rose Bowl?

 

[The Juggernaut]

New email from the campaign tonight.

Friend --

I wanted you to be the first to hear the news.

At the Democratic National Convention next month, we're going to kick off the general election with an event that opens up the political process the same way we've opened it up throughout this campaign.

Barack has made it clear that this is your convention, not his.

On Thursday, August 28th, he's scheduled to formally accept the Democratic nomination in a speech at the convention hall in front of the assembled delegates.

Instead, Barack will leave the convention hall and join more than 75,000 people for a huge, free, open-air event where he will deliver his acceptance speech to the American people.

It's going to be an amazing event, and Barack would like you to join him. Free tickets will become available as the date approaches, but we've reserved a special place for a few of the people who brought us this far and who continue to drive this campaign.

If you make a donation of $5 or more between now and midnight on July 31st, you could be one of 10 supporters chosen to fly to Denver and spend two days and nights at the convention, meet Barack backstage, and watch his acceptance speech in person. Each of the ten supporters who are selected will be able to bring one guest to join them.

Make a donation now and you could have a front row seat to history.

We'll follow up with more details on this and other convention activities as we get closer, but please take a moment and pass this note to someone you know who might like to be there.

It will be an event you'll never forget.

Thank you,

David

David Plouffe

Campaign Manager

Obama for America

Damn, they're good.

 

[videoguy505]

New email from the campaign tonight.

Friend --

I wanted you to be the first to hear the news.

At the Democratic National Convention next month, we're going to kick off the general election with an event that opens up the political process the same way we've opened it up throughout this campaign.

Barack has made it clear that this is your convention, not his.

On Thursday, August 28th, he's scheduled to formally accept the Democratic nomination in a speech at the convention hall in front of the assembled delegates.

Instead, Barack will leave the convention hall and join more than 75,000 people for a huge, free, open-air event where he will deliver his acceptance speech to the American people.

It's going to be an amazing event, and Barack would like you to join him. Free tickets will become available as the date approaches, but we've reserved a special place for a few of the people who brought us this far and who continue to drive this campaign.

If you make a donation of $5 or more between now and midnight on July 31st, you could be one of 10 supporters chosen to fly to Denver and spend two days and nights at the convention, meet Barack backstage, and watch his acceptance speech in person. Each of the ten supporters who are selected will be able to bring one guest to join them.

Make a donation now and you could have a front row seat to history.

We'll follow up with more details on this and other convention activities as we get closer, but please take a moment and pass this note to someone you know who might like to be there.

It will be an event you'll never forget.

Thank you,

David

David Plouffe

Campaign Manager

Obama for America

Damn, they're good.

Guy's gotta raise his $300 mil somehow. Why not lotto tickets?

 

[videoguy505]

Guy's gotta raise his $300 mil somehow. Why not lotto tickets?

Oops.

The head of the Minnesota Gambling Control Board said that a solicitation for funds on the national website of the Barack Obama presidential campaign may constitute a raffle, which is a violation of Minnesota gambling laws.

The state Gambling Board website specifically states that one cannot conduct a raffle as a fundraiser for a political campaign. Only nonprofit charities may conduct raffles.

He said three elements make a drawing a form of gambling under state law: if it costs money to participate, if it involves "the luck of the draw" in which no skill is involved and if one wins something of value.

Barrett said that if one could participate in the drawing to become one of the 10 special guests without making a contribution, then it would not be gambling. But he could find no mention of that possibility on the Obama website.

He also said that if the website stated that the offer was void in Minnesota, it would also be legal.

 

[phthalatemagic]

Guy's gotta raise his $300 mil somehow. Why not lotto tickets?

Oops.

The head of the Minnesota Gambling Control Board said that a solicitation for funds on the national website of the Barack Obama presidential campaign may constitute a raffle, which is a violation of Minnesota gambling laws.

The state Gambling Board website specifically states that one cannot conduct a raffle as a fundraiser for a political campaign. Only nonprofit charities may conduct raffles.

He said three elements make a drawing a form of gambling under state law: if it costs money to participate, if it involves "the luck of the draw" in which no skill is involved and if one wins something of value.

Barrett said that if one could participate in the drawing to become one of the 10 special guests without making a contribution, then it would not be gambling. But he could find no mention of that possibility on the Obama website.

He also said that if the website stated that the offer was void in Minnesota, it would also be legal.

It's Obama. Why can't Minnesota just fall in line?

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

Guy's gotta raise his $300 mil somehow. Why not lotto tickets?

Oops.

The head of the Minnesota Gambling Control Board said that a solicitation for funds on the national website of the Barack Obama presidential campaign may constitute a raffle, which is a violation of Minnesota gambling laws.

The state Gambling Board website specifically states that one cannot conduct a raffle as a fundraiser for a political campaign. Only nonprofit charities may conduct raffles.

He said three elements make a drawing a form of gambling under state law: if it costs money to participate, if it involves "the luck of the draw" in which no skill is involved and if one wins something of value.

Barrett said that if one could participate in the drawing to become one of the 10 special guests without making a contribution, then it would not be gambling. But he could find no mention of that possibility on the Obama website.

He also said that if the website stated that the offer was void in Minnesota, it would also be legal.

It's Obama. Why can't Minnesota just fall in line?

I always wondered why different contests and promos had a provision for playing without purchasing something.

 

[Statorama]

New email from the campaign tonight.

Friend --

I wanted you to be the first to hear the news.

At the Democratic National Convention next month, we're going to kick off the general election with an event that opens up the political process the same way we've opened it up throughout this campaign.

Barack has made it clear that this is your convention, not his.

On Thursday, August 28th, he's scheduled to formally accept the Democratic nomination in a speech at the convention hall in front of the assembled delegates.

Instead, Barack will leave the convention hall and join more than 75,000 people for a huge, free, open-air event where he will deliver his acceptance speech to the American people.

It's going to be an amazing event, and Barack would like you to join him. Free tickets will become available as the date approaches, but we've reserved a special place for a few of the people who brought us this far and who continue to drive this campaign.

If you make a donation of $5 or more between now and midnight on July 31st, you could be one of 10 supporters chosen to fly to Denver and spend two days and nights at the convention, meet Barack backstage, and watch his acceptance speech in person. Each of the ten supporters who are selected will be able to bring one guest to join them.

Make a donation now and you could have a front row seat to history.

We'll follow up with more details on this and other convention activities as we get closer, but please take a moment and pass this note to someone you know who might like to be there.

It will be an event you'll never forget.

Thank you,

David

David Plouffe

Campaign Manager

Obama for America

Damn, they're good.

I agree. His campaign crew has done a magnificent job during this election cycle.

 

[adonis]

New email from the campaign tonight.

Friend --

I wanted you to be the first to hear the news.

At the Democratic National Convention next month, we're going to kick off the general election with an event that opens up the political process the same way we've opened it up throughout this campaign.

Barack has made it clear that this is your convention, not his.

On Thursday, August 28th, he's scheduled to formally accept the Democratic nomination in a speech at the convention hall in front of the assembled delegates.

Instead, Barack will leave the convention hall and join more than 75,000 people for a huge, free, open-air event where he will deliver his acceptance speech to the American people.

It's going to be an amazing event, and Barack would like you to join him. Free tickets will become available as the date approaches, but we've reserved a special place for a few of the people who brought us this far and who continue to drive this campaign.

If you make a donation of $5 or more between now and midnight on July 31st, you could be one of 10 supporters chosen to fly to Denver and spend two days and nights at the convention, meet Barack backstage, and watch his acceptance speech in person. Each of the ten supporters who are selected will be able to bring one guest to join them.

Make a donation now and you could have a front row seat to history.

We'll follow up with more details on this and other convention activities as we get closer, but please take a moment and pass this note to someone you know who might like to be there.

It will be an event you'll never forget.

Thank you,

David

David Plouffe

Campaign Manager

Obama for America

Damn, they're good.

I agree. His campaign crew has done a magnificent job during this election cycle.

If he wins the presidency, this will probably go down as one of the best campaigns in american political history.

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

I don't get this smiley. Are you surprised Fox News actually has some news?

That clearly would qualify for the smiley, but it was more for the idea of a Presidential candidate addressing a stadium full of supporters. I have no doubt it will be packed either.

 

[Statorama]

If he wins the presidency, this will probably go down as one of the best campaigns in american political history.

The worst part is that it's going to change the way elections are done going forward. Both sides are going to trot out their "rockstar" candidate and mimic what the Obama campaign has done. The Obama campaign has gone a long way toward revealing that America really doesn't care if you have experience or not. In fact, it will probably work in the favor of future candidates to not have much of a track record.Thanks to Adonis, I've been able to really dig into Obama's policies and get a feel for what he hopes to accomplish. Both the good and the bad. I wanted to be armed with the facts so that I could have an educated discussion with people at work that support him. I found out that 9 out of 10 Obama supporters I talked to IRL don't know any of his policies outside of "free healthcare" and "not doing things like Bush does". So all the Obama campaign has really had to do is put Obama's main policies on a website, where those that actually want to seek out those answers can find them. It leaves Obama free to look good in a suit and speechify. He doesn't have to go into long, boring details about his plans because 90% of his supporters don't really care about all that. They want to run alongside of a very energetic, charismatic candidate who they feel is smart enough to handle the most important job in the world.The landscape of future presidential elections has been altered forever. This is quite likely the last time you've seen a candidate over 50 running for President.

 

[bigbottom]

The landscape of future presidential elections has been altered forever. This is quite likely the last time you've seen a candidate over 50 running for President.

Care to make it interesting? I'll bet that this is not that last time we'll have a candidate over 50 years of age running for president. Minimum $100 bet and I'll let you name the odds. 10-1? 100-1? 1000-1? 10000-1?

 

[adonis]

I don't think this changes what candidates will run, but I think it forever changes HOW candidates run. There will still be those over 50 running, ands till a few under 50 politicians, but the framework of campaigning in america is forever changed.

 

[Statorama]

The landscape of future presidential elections has been altered forever. This is quite likely the last time you've seen a candidate over 50 running for President.

Care to make it interesting? I'll bet that this is not that last time we'll have a candidate over 50 years of age running for president. Minimum $100 bet and I'll let you name the odds. 10-1? 100-1? 1000-1? 10000-1?

I specifically slipped in the "quite likely" part Really, who knows how many elections that the Republicans will lose before they figure out what they need to do.Besides, when Obama runs for re-election in 2012 he'll be 51

 

[Statorama]

I don't think this changes what candidates will run, but I think it forever changes HOW candidates run. There will still be those over 50 running, ands till a few under 50 politicians, but the framework of campaigning in america is forever changed.

Part of the success of the campaign plan hinged on a "surprise" candidate that didn't have much experience or track record. The older you get, the harder it is to keep under the radar like that.It has certainly helped that Hillary Clinton and J McCain have trotted out two of the most horrific campaigns in recent memory.

 

[Homer J Simpson]

If he wins the presidency, this will probably go down as one of the best campaigns in american political history.

The worst part is that it's going to change the way elections are done going forward. Both sides are going to trot out their "rockstar" candidate and mimic what the Obama campaign has done. The Obama campaign has gone a long way toward revealing that America really doesn't care if you have experience or not. In fact, it will probably work in the favor of future candidates to not have much of a track record.Thanks to Adonis, I've been able to really dig into Obama's policies and get a feel for what he hopes to accomplish. Both the good and the bad. I wanted to be armed with the facts so that I could have an educated discussion with people at work that support him. I found out that 9 out of 10 Obama supporters I talked to IRL don't know any of his policies outside of "free healthcare" and "not doing things like Bush does". So all the Obama campaign has really had to do is put Obama's main policies on a website, where those that actually want to seek out those answers can find them. It leaves Obama free to look good in a suit and speechify. He doesn't have to go into long, boring details about his plans because 90% of his supporters don't really care about all that. They want to run alongside of a very energetic, charismatic candidate who they feel is smart enough to handle the most important job in the world.

The landscape of future presidential elections has been altered forever. This is quite likely the last time you've seen a candidate over 50 running for President.

God, I hate this crap.