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***Official*** Beto O'Rourke Thread (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Mister CIA
- Start date
timschochet
Footballguy
If ren thinks Beta is centrist, perhaps I should reexamine him. Centrist is what I want.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
BRIAN: Are you the Judean People's Front?
REG: #### off!
BRIAN: What?
REG: Judean People's Front. We're the People's Front of Judea! Judean People's Front. Cawk.
FRANCIS: Wankers.
BRIAN: Can I... join your group?
REG: No. Piss off.
BRIAN: I didn't want to sell this stuff. It's only a job. I hate the Romans as much as anybody.
PEOPLE'S FRONT OF JUDEA: Shhhh. Shhhh. Shhh. Shh. Shhhh.
REG: Stumm.
JUDITH: Are you sure?
BRIAN: Oh, dead sure. I hate the Romans already.
REG: Listen. If you wanted to join the P.F.J., you'd have to really hate the Romans.
BRIAN: I do!
REG: Oh, yeah? How much?
BRIAN: A lot!
REG: Right. You're in. Listen. The only people we hate more than the Romans are the ####ing Judean People's Front.
P.F.J.: Yeah...
JUDITH: Splitters.
P.F.J.: Splitters...
FRANCIS: And the Judean Popular People's Front.
P.F.J.: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Splitters. Splitters...
LORETTA: And the People's Front of Judea.
P.F.J.: Yeah. Splitters. Splitters...
REG: What?
LORETTA: The People's Front of Judea. Splitters.
REG: We're the People's Front of Judea!
LORETTA: Oh. I thought we were the Popular Front.
REG: People's Front! C-huh.
FRANCIS: Whatever happened to the Popular Front, Reg?
REG: He's over there.
REG: #### off!
BRIAN: What?
REG: Judean People's Front. We're the People's Front of Judea! Judean People's Front. Cawk.
FRANCIS: Wankers.
BRIAN: Can I... join your group?
REG: No. Piss off.
BRIAN: I didn't want to sell this stuff. It's only a job. I hate the Romans as much as anybody.
PEOPLE'S FRONT OF JUDEA: Shhhh. Shhhh. Shhh. Shh. Shhhh.
REG: Stumm.
JUDITH: Are you sure?
BRIAN: Oh, dead sure. I hate the Romans already.
REG: Listen. If you wanted to join the P.F.J., you'd have to really hate the Romans.
BRIAN: I do!
REG: Oh, yeah? How much?
BRIAN: A lot!
REG: Right. You're in. Listen. The only people we hate more than the Romans are the ####ing Judean People's Front.
P.F.J.: Yeah...
JUDITH: Splitters.
P.F.J.: Splitters...
FRANCIS: And the Judean Popular People's Front.
P.F.J.: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Splitters. Splitters...
LORETTA: And the People's Front of Judea.
P.F.J.: Yeah. Splitters. Splitters...
REG: What?
LORETTA: The People's Front of Judea. Splitters.
REG: We're the People's Front of Judea!
LORETTA: Oh. I thought we were the Popular Front.
REG: People's Front! C-huh.
FRANCIS: Whatever happened to the Popular Front, Reg?
REG: He's over there.
Apple Jack
Footballguy
It's hard to imagine the Bernie Bros voting third party again. With Trump in the race anyway.
ren hoek
Footballguy
It’s just amazing that people view scrutiny of the stuff he’s actually done in his political career as ‘misinformation’ ‘amplified’ by ‘forces’ who ‘aim to divide and discourage’. Really? Because it seems more like a frank policy critique than a misinformation campaign.
Now people are suggesting it’s a Berniebro conspiracy to discredit Beto O’Rourke. Is everything that makes Democrats look bad a Bernie/Russia conspiracy?
ren hoek
Footballguy
Will Menaker @willmenaker
In 2019 I’m going to coordinate so many attacks on Beto. I will personally destroy him. Why? Because he’s good and I’m bad, but on a more elementary level, because I can
In 2019 I’m going to coordinate so many attacks on Beto. I will personally destroy him. Why? Because he’s good and I’m bad, but on a more elementary level, because I can
ren hoek
Footballguy
No, Sanders endorsed Hillary Clinton. The field was totally cleared for her. Hillary Clinton was the one that lost to Trump. Sanders probably would have won.
A repeat of 2016 would be Hillary Clinton running again, getting anointed by the DNC again, promoting Trump in the primaries as a pied piper candidate again, and then losing to Trump again.
ren hoek
Footballguy
I think you would like him. It’s not that he isn’t affable or likable. It’s that people are evaluating him based on hopeychangey feelings rather than substance.
timschochet
Footballguy
I haven’t really paid too much attention to him. I suppose I will.
As you know, what I want is pro-business, pro-free trade, pro-establishment candidate who wants to continue our traditional international commitments. Bloomberg would be perfect for me.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
HOT TAKE ALERT:
Most of us are not going to get our preferred candidate for the Democratic nomination for the presidency in 2020. That's just the reality of a broad field of outstanding primary candidates. The absolute best thing you can do this far out is to commit now to not being a petulant crybaby and to lining up to defeat Trump no matter who is the nominee. because whatever policy differences you might have with the nominee are de minimis compared to the policy differences most decent Americans have (or at least should have) with Trump.
Most of us are not going to get our preferred candidate for the Democratic nomination for the presidency in 2020. That's just the reality of a broad field of outstanding primary candidates. The absolute best thing you can do this far out is to commit now to not being a petulant crybaby and to lining up to defeat Trump no matter who is the nominee. because whatever policy differences you might have with the nominee are de minimis compared to the policy differences most decent Americans have (or at least should have) with Trump.
Wrong. Sanders ads vehemently opposed Hillary and because the battle was tight, she became the enemy to a big portion of democratic voters. After she won, Sanders was very half-hearted in his endorsement of her. She remained an enemy in many democratic voter's minds. Causing low voter turnout. If a repeat happens in 2020, we have 4 more years of the mob boss.
timschochet
Footballguy
This always sounds good on paper, but in reality you can’t ever have a candidate pledge to a one term Presidency. It weakens him or her.
whoknew
Footballguy
ren hoek
Footballguy
He’s pro-Wall Street, pro-TPP, learned to love Israel. There’s a lot for you to like there.
ericttspikes
Footballguy
Guy isn't liberal enough, guess I'll just vote for Trump.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
ericttspikes
Footballguy
ren hoek
Footballguy
Alex Seitz-Wald, one of the authors on that NBC ‘Bernie-world’s war on Beto’ piece, worked at CAP under Podesta and coordinated with the Clinton campaign in 2016.
Glenn Greenwald @ggreenwald
Worth noting that the gossipy, reckless, manufactured NBC Bernie-War-on-Beto tale ("Forces Loyal to Sanders") had @aseitzwald as one of its key writers. He spent 2016 serving as a DNC operative churning out pro-Hillary/anti-Sanders agitprop. It's his job: https://medium.com/mtracey/how-msnbcs-alex-seitz-wald-colluded-with-the-failed-clinton-campaign-5e051f1ce9db
1) When a politician develops an overnight national platform & is hyped to run for President, (real) journalists examine his record to see if it matches his branding; 2) Supporters of one candidate make arguments about why their candidate's record is better than his opponents.
Glenn Greenwald @ggreenwald
Worth noting that the gossipy, reckless, manufactured NBC Bernie-War-on-Beto tale ("Forces Loyal to Sanders") had @aseitzwald as one of its key writers. He spent 2016 serving as a DNC operative churning out pro-Hillary/anti-Sanders agitprop. It's his job: https://medium.com/mtracey/how-msnbcs-alex-seitz-wald-colluded-with-the-failed-clinton-campaign-5e051f1ce9db
1) When a politician develops an overnight national platform & is hyped to run for President, (real) journalists examine his record to see if it matches his branding; 2) Supporters of one candidate make arguments about why their candidate's record is better than his opponents.
squistion
Footballguy
He got a lot of scrutiny from the media and the GOP in Texas since he was within striking distance of Cruz and was viewed as a rising star in Democratic circles. If there were any skeletons in his closet, they probably would have surfaced during that campaign to take him down with.
bigbottom
Footballguy
There were a number of videos from when he served on City Council where citizens (largely Hispanic) were taking him to task because of a development project he was supporting that was negatively impacting their community. Lots of emotions in those videos that were used repeatedly during the campaign to paint him as a faux man of the people who really was just screwing the little guy in favor of his rich father-in-law’s real estate development business. That was the attack that was probably the most effective as it cut directly against the way he was portraying himself. The attacks on his arrest record, punk band membership, and selected quotes about anthem kneeling, etc., largely fell flat.
ren hoek
Footballguy
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bigbottom
Footballguy
Excerpted and used in campaign ads run against him. Like I said, didn’t really work except with those who weren’t going to vote for him anyway.
cosjobs
Footballguy
tim?
I see many paths where Bernie runs but does the right thing. He's pretty much done it his whole life and deserves to play it out as he sees fit. As a party, we are not such ####### that we have to shut up a strong , progressive voice.
I want a candidate picking a running mate early, making a single-term pledge, winning the nomination at a brokered convention and eventually relying on the House of Representatives to decide the winner. That way political pundits can finally be satisfied and stop pimping those scenarios every four years.
IC FBGCav
Footballguy
Beto O’Rourke frequently voted for Republican legislation, analysis reveals
Review of his six-year record in Congress shows Democrat frequently opposed own party, and supported bills that boosted the fossil fuel industry and Trump’s immigration policy.
In the last two years, O’Rourke was among the top fifth of all lawmakers voting against his own party’s positions. FiveThirtyEight has calculated that in that same time period, O’Rourke has voted for the Trump administration position roughly 30% of the time. The website said that is above what analysts predict would come from a legislator representing a district as Democratic as O’Rourke’s. For comparison, O’Rourke’s congressional district votes more Democratic than than most districts in Massachusetts, according to the Cook Political Report.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/dec/20/beto-orourke-congressional-votes-analysis-capital-and-main
You know what they say at the barber shop.....NEXT!!#
Review of his six-year record in Congress shows Democrat frequently opposed own party, and supported bills that boosted the fossil fuel industry and Trump’s immigration policy.
In the last two years, O’Rourke was among the top fifth of all lawmakers voting against his own party’s positions. FiveThirtyEight has calculated that in that same time period, O’Rourke has voted for the Trump administration position roughly 30% of the time. The website said that is above what analysts predict would come from a legislator representing a district as Democratic as O’Rourke’s. For comparison, O’Rourke’s congressional district votes more Democratic than than most districts in Massachusetts, according to the Cook Political Report.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/dec/20/beto-orourke-congressional-votes-analysis-capital-and-main
You know what they say at the barber shop.....NEXT!!#
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Juxtatarot
Footballguy
I suppose representing Texas business interests as well as his Senate ambitions might have played a role in this.
No doubt he's not for you but, frankly, I'm on board with a candidate who will break ranks with the majority of Democrats on some issues and is less likely to view business as the enemy of the people.
Regardless, though, I'm sure we'll get a better idea on where he stands on various issues during the campaign (assuming he runs). Also, let's not pretend this is an article without an agenda.
the moops
Footballguy
ericttspikes
Footballguy
IC FBGCav
Footballguy
IC FBGCav
Footballguy
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ericttspikes
Footballguy
Just saying Trump is gonna paint as he’s gonna paint. No one knows the outcome. Not understanding the opinion from the far left that somehow a far left candidate would be inoculated from Trump and have an easier path to the WH. I voted Bernie in the primary but had no illusions that if he won it would be painted as the socialist vs. the capitalist which is difficult place to win from in America. Hell, Beto was painted as too liberal by Cruz. Regardless who is the D candidate, they will painted as too liberal by the right. Not too worried about the DUI thing at all.
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IC FBGCav
Footballguy
I vote on policies. I want candidate that represents them. Most Americans are for those policies.
ericttspikes
Footballguy
IC FBGCav
Footballguy
Just gives him more ammo like with Warren and her native stunt. The voting record is much worse than the dui.
ren hoek
Footballguy
https://twitter.com/leahmcelrath/status/1061864358635077633?s=21
..... I guess that’s one reason to support beto
..... I guess that’s one reason to support beto
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ren hoek
Footballguy
Interesting thread by Laura Moser here. Perfect really. You might remember her for being attacked by the DCCC in Texas’ 7th district primary, an election she ended up losing.
Laura Moser @lcmoser
I've been dismayed by the recent discussion around @BetoORourke, and it has nothing to do with the excellent Beto himself: it's because I like him that I am concerned by how this discussion has been shaping up.
I'm really disappointed to see people like the also excellent @joshtpm joining the attacks against people like @davidsirota, who have raised questions about Beto in the extremely tired terms of Bernie vs. Hillary.
The reason this is so important is that it has nothing to do with Beto but with the fundamental reasons for the ongoing divisions that crested in 2016, and for which "Bernie" and "Hillary" are only shorthand.
There's nothing that our party needs less than a relitigation of 2016. But it's important to say that Sanders was a protest candidate: a septuagenarian left-winger from a small state, he was the kind of candidate who usually gets 5%. Instead, he got 42%.
It's worth asking why he did so well, without getting into the personal terms that so often have animated this question. And if I could offer a single reason, it is that a huge part of the party, nearly half, did not like being told whom to vote for.
Base Democrats had the strong impression that, once again, we were being instructed to do as we were told by a party that, though our values were shared by the majority of the American people, had consistently underperformed.
Many people deeply distrusted candidates perceived, rightly or wrongly but usually rightly, as institutional, corporate, status-quo. There was and is a huge gap between what voters want and what the leadership wants.
Rather than engaging this question honestly, Sanders supporters -- again, 42% of the party -- were and are constantly trolled, told to shut up and get in line, smeared with sexist terms like "Bernie Bros."
Now, we are seeing, with remarkable speed, a consensus emerge around Beto O'Rourke. This is not going to be helpful to him personally and it is not going to be helpful to the party.
There is huge skepticism among base Democrats about candidates that are felt to be foisted upon us without debate, and with the help of increasingly empowered internet trolls. But we desperately need that debate.
We should not be lulled into thinking that our party is popular. We have just won an election because Donald Trump is the most ludicrous, offensive, criminal president in our history -- not because our party is so great.
In many districts, the margins were tiny. A lot of this is because so many Democrats simply do not feel represented. And you know what? They're not. The reason people like @Ocasio2018 are so popular is that they have tapped into a real demand for a different direction.
As a Texan, I strongly prefer to see Beto run against the hideous @JohnCornyn next year. But if he is the nominee, he should emerge from a fair and honest democratic process-- not from a think tank in Washington.
Base Democratic voters have real reasons to think that they are overlooked -- even despised -- by the party's leadership. To try to crown a front-runner at this point is just another way to turn our voters off.
Laura Moser @lcmoser
I've been dismayed by the recent discussion around @BetoORourke, and it has nothing to do with the excellent Beto himself: it's because I like him that I am concerned by how this discussion has been shaping up.
I'm really disappointed to see people like the also excellent @joshtpm joining the attacks against people like @davidsirota, who have raised questions about Beto in the extremely tired terms of Bernie vs. Hillary.
The reason this is so important is that it has nothing to do with Beto but with the fundamental reasons for the ongoing divisions that crested in 2016, and for which "Bernie" and "Hillary" are only shorthand.
There's nothing that our party needs less than a relitigation of 2016. But it's important to say that Sanders was a protest candidate: a septuagenarian left-winger from a small state, he was the kind of candidate who usually gets 5%. Instead, he got 42%.
It's worth asking why he did so well, without getting into the personal terms that so often have animated this question. And if I could offer a single reason, it is that a huge part of the party, nearly half, did not like being told whom to vote for.
Base Democrats had the strong impression that, once again, we were being instructed to do as we were told by a party that, though our values were shared by the majority of the American people, had consistently underperformed.
Many people deeply distrusted candidates perceived, rightly or wrongly but usually rightly, as institutional, corporate, status-quo. There was and is a huge gap between what voters want and what the leadership wants.
Rather than engaging this question honestly, Sanders supporters -- again, 42% of the party -- were and are constantly trolled, told to shut up and get in line, smeared with sexist terms like "Bernie Bros."
Now, we are seeing, with remarkable speed, a consensus emerge around Beto O'Rourke. This is not going to be helpful to him personally and it is not going to be helpful to the party.
There is huge skepticism among base Democrats about candidates that are felt to be foisted upon us without debate, and with the help of increasingly empowered internet trolls. But we desperately need that debate.
We should not be lulled into thinking that our party is popular. We have just won an election because Donald Trump is the most ludicrous, offensive, criminal president in our history -- not because our party is so great.
In many districts, the margins were tiny. A lot of this is because so many Democrats simply do not feel represented. And you know what? They're not. The reason people like @Ocasio2018 are so popular is that they have tapped into a real demand for a different direction.
As a Texan, I strongly prefer to see Beto run against the hideous @JohnCornyn next year. But if he is the nominee, he should emerge from a fair and honest democratic process-- not from a think tank in Washington.
Base Democratic voters have real reasons to think that they are overlooked -- even despised -- by the party's leadership. To try to crown a front-runner at this point is just another way to turn our voters off.
the moops
Footballguy
There is always going to be the difficult votes that democrat candidates from a state like Texas, or a republican from a state like California, have to make. On the one hand, they were elected by a left or right leaning subset of the population of that particular state. But I imagine, in Beto's case, that subset while left leaning, has a lot of ties to the fossil fuel industry. I do not know enough of Beto to judge, but I imagine it is a constant battle of appeasing constituents (both those who voted and did not vote for you), towing the democrat company line, and voting your conscience.
This is a good thread. I don't think it's true that the Establishment has united around Beto and is trying to foist him on the Democratic electorate, and I also think she speaks too broadly on behalf of all "Bernie supporters"; I think this entire debate is taking place between a tiny slice of Democratic activists online.
But she's right that the perception of the Establishment choosing a candidate in 2016 was very damaging (not to mention substantively bad), so I understand where the concern is coming from. And it's particularly understandable coming from Moser, who was done so dirty by the DCCC this year.
I wasn't a Sanders supporter in '16, but I never understood the argument that he needed to drop out before the end of the primaries (nor did I think that about Hillary in '08). The only thing I ask of candidates in a primary is that they not go scorched-earth in ways that will damage their opponent in a general election, and that when the process is over they endorse the nominee. Beyond that, they absolutely have the right to stay in the race and try to get as many votes as they can, and trying to short-circuit the process is both wrong and politically dumb.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
You can tell which candidate the right is afraid of.
Good analysis of the Bernie v. Beto skirmish. Chait obviously has his own biases, but he is trying here to be descriptive (and only partially succeeding). His point is that this argument is a harbinger of a deeper ideological split between liberals and leftists.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
bigbottom
Footballguy
This thing about Beto taking oil and gas money is about campaign donations from individuals who work in that industry right? If so, that’s a ludicrous criticism unless there is some evidence of a quid pro quo. Because Beto’s greatest asset was that he was able to garner support from voters across the spectrum in a red state. Energy is one of the largest if not the largest industry in Texas, so of course some of his supporters will be employed in that industry.
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