***Official CLEVELAND INDIANS Thread*** (1 Viewer)

[Tom Servo]

It would be nice to roll through those three and come out 7-4.

 

[The Man With No Name]

Big roadie starting tonight...KC, TEX, DET. Gotta get a nice start with Lee and CC today and tomorrow respectively.

7-1 in their last 8 in K.C. Hope that continues

 

[Bobcat10]

Borowski gives up about a thousand feet of fly balls but survives. Let's win tonight by 4.

 

[Tecumseh]

Top 9, men on 1st and 2nd, 2 outs, down by 5. WTH would you not PH Blake for Marte??

I remember when Marte was the class of the Braves minor league system, and the next great thing for them. Now he's just putrid.

 

[MAC_32]

Borowski gives up about a thousand feet of fly balls but survives. Let's win tonight by 4.

I am desperately trying to move him before one of his bad outings, his fastball (if you want to call it that) is still in the mid 80's and the bats are hitting him hard - they're just turning into outs thankfully. I wish there was a more defined backup because he would be on all of my rosters right now.

 

[wadegarrett]

From Pluto...

If the Indians come home from this 11-game trip more than six games out of first place and still with the same problems, they need to present a "take-it-or-get-traded" contract extension offer to C.C. Sabathia. My guess is the Tribe would probably wait until the All-Star break to take that stance, but history says if the Tribe is to turn things around, it starts now. And if they don't turn it around in the next few weeks, why hang on to Sabathia when they know he'll be gone at the end of the year -- with only two amateur draft choices to show for it? ESPN's Jayson Stark wrote that in the wild-card era, only 13 of 104 teams that had losing records at the end of May went on to make the playoffs. The other 91 playoff teams at least were over .500 heading into June. Stark mentioned that in the past two years, six teams came back from losing records to make the playoffs. But the real statistic is that only the 2005 Houston Astros came back from more than six games out to be a playoff team. So if the Indians come home on June 10 more than six games out, it's time to face reality and start trading off some veterans who will be free agents (Sabathia, Paul Byrd) and others not in the future plans.

If the Indians do decide this isn't their year and make some trades, then they'll use the second half to rebuild the rotation. That means they will call up Jeremy Sowers (3-3, 2.18 ERA at Class AAA Buffalo). Adam Miller's finger surgery puts a question mark next to him this season, and he had a 1.88 ERA at Buffalo. One Tribe operative told me "almost everything" will be considered if the Tribe drops out of contention.

:(

 

[MAC_32]

Read on Buster Olney's blog not too long ago that the Indians may do no better than a couple grade 2 prospects for CC, which in most eyes would be no better than the draft picks they'd receive for just letting him walk. If that's the case, Cleveland would be dumb to trade him.

 

[Bobcat10]

Read on Buster Olney's blog not too long ago that the Indians may do no better than a couple grade 2 prospects for CC, which in most eyes would be no better than the draft picks they'd receive for just letting him walk. If that's the case, Cleveland would be dumb to trade him.

Need some help here.What is a grade 2 prospect per se? Was there any in recent trades (like Johan, Haren, Cabrera, etc etc)? Was Grady a grade 2 level in the Colon trade?One benefit I see is that they would have better intel on said prospects, not just HS or college intel. The product is already being developed in the minors. The Indians have done well finding talent like this in the past. The thinking here before this season started, and probably even now, is that they were set up for a nice run being very good for years to come. This is based on who is signed for how long and how those players projected, etc etc. Even with the current struggles, it seems like getting a few players closer to major league ready rather than draft picks farther away would be the way they want to go (unless they really feel for some reason like they can get CC to sign for less once he sees what is really out there).

 

[MAC_32]

Read on Buster Olney's blog not too long ago that the Indians may do no better than a couple grade 2 prospects for CC, which in most eyes would be no better than the draft picks they'd receive for just letting him walk. If that's the case, Cleveland would be dumb to trade him.

Need some help here.What is a grade 2 prospect per se? Was there any in recent trades (like Johan, Haren, Cabrera, etc etc)? Was Grady a grade 2 level in the Colon trade?One benefit I see is that they would have better intel on said prospects, not just HS or college intel. The product is already being developed in the minors. The Indians have done well finding talent like this in the past. The thinking here before this season started, and probably even now, is that they were set up for a nice run being very good for years to come. This is based on who is signed for how long and how those players projected, etc etc. Even with the current struggles, it seems like getting a few players closer to major league ready rather than draft picks farther away would be the way they want to go (unless they really feel for some reason like they can get CC to sign for less once he sees what is really out there).

I don't know exactly, but in Buster's opinion the draft picks are more valuable. I would venture a guess that Grady was not a grade 2 prospect, maybe someone more like Jair Jurrjens or Carlos Gonzalez - a player that may be good but never great.

 

[The Man With No Name]

The hitting is soooooo bad-

When C.C. pitches he should be penciled into the lineup somewhere. And he should be given a shot at being the DH too. Nothing to lose doing it, and it could increase his trade value to National League teams if he does hit some. Heck, he has a .333 batting average since his rookie year. Why not?

 

[Bobcat10]

Jake back to the DL. :(

Jake Westbrook, SP CLENews: Cleveland right-hander Jake Westbrook has been scratched from his scheduled start Tuesday and is headed back to the disabled list. During their game Monday night at Texas, the Indians said Westbrook would be placed on the disabled list Tuesday because of right elbow inflammation. The DL move will be retroactive to Thursday, the day after his last start. The Indians will call up a pitcher from the minor leagues to start Tuesday. They didn't announce who that would be.

 

[Knightro]

Read on Buster Olney's blog not too long ago that the Indians may do no better than a couple grade 2 prospects for CC, which in most eyes would be no better than the draft picks they'd receive for just letting him walk. If that's the case, Cleveland would be dumb to trade him.

Need some help here.What is a grade 2 prospect per se? Was there any in recent trades (like Johan, Haren, Cabrera, etc etc)? Was Grady a grade 2 level in the Colon trade?One benefit I see is that they would have better intel on said prospects, not just HS or college intel. The product is already being developed in the minors. The Indians have done well finding talent like this in the past. The thinking here before this season started, and probably even now, is that they were set up for a nice run being very good for years to come. This is based on who is signed for how long and how those players projected, etc etc. Even with the current struggles, it seems like getting a few players closer to major league ready rather than draft picks farther away would be the way they want to go (unless they really feel for some reason like they can get CC to sign for less once he sees what is really out there).

I'll use the Rays as an example. Grade A prospects in the system: Price, Davis, McGee. Grade A prospects are generally untouchable or, if traded, are paired up with some C level or lower types in a deal. Good examples are the Cards/A's deals in the past involving Dan Haren to the A's, Daric Barton (was an A prospect at one time), etc.Grade 2 prospects for the Rays would be guys like Jeremy Hellickson (although he is quickly becoming an A), Fernando Perez, and Jeff Niemann. Grade 2 guys can still profile as everyday major leaguers, but not all-star types.

 

[Bobcat10]

Mastny to get the start tonight. Ugggghhhh.

 

[wadegarrett]

Mastny to get the start tonight. Ugggghhhh.

 

[Tom Servo]

Mastny to get the start tonight. Ugggghhhh.

I know you're agreeing with him, but I think the smiley you're looking for is this one: and this one

 

[Bobcat10]

Cliffy is FUMING.

Really though, this home plate ump has been horrible especially in the 5th inning.

Bradley took a third strike, walked over the plate, put his bat under his arm, started undoing his batting gloves......then realized the ump didn't punch him out. Ended up striking out swinging. Funny stuff.

The worst call was later that inning...another non called 3rd strike when he was looking to get out of the jam....double tied the game and took away Lee's possible win.

Good thing the Tribe came back with two so far in the top of the 6th to possibly get Lee a decision.

Now onto the bullpen......

 

[wadegarrett]

Cliffy is FUMING.

Really though, this home plate ump has been horrible especially in the 5th inning.

Bradley took a third strike, walked over the plate, put his bat under his arm, started undoing his batting gloves......then realized the ump didn't punch him out. Ended up striking out swinging. Funny stuff.

The worst call was later that inning...another non called 3rd strike when he was looking to get out of the jam....double tied the game and took away Lee's possible win.

Good thing the Tribe came back with two so far in the top of the 6th to possibly get Lee a decision.

Now onto the bullpen......

Was fuming myself over this...was such a great pitch too.

 

[Bobcat10]

News on Jake doesn't sound very promising. I'm thinking TJ#2 is in store...

 

[Tecumseh]

Betancourt's a disaster. Shut him down and let the man heal.

 

[Tecumseh]

News on Jake doesn't sound very promising. I'm thinking TJ#2 is in store...

Westbrook needs Tommy John surgery on right elbow; will miss at least a yearPosted by Paul Hoynes June 07, 2008 13:07PMCategories: IndiansDetroit --- Jake Westbrook needs ulnar collateral ligament surgery --- commonly known as Tommy John surgery --- on his right elbow. He's expected to miss at least a year.Lonnie Soloff, Indians head athletic trainer, said "80 to 85 percent" of pitchers who have ligament transplant surgery make successful recoveries. Westbrook is 30, but Soloff said age should not be a drawback in his comeback.Soloff said the ligament used to repair Westbrook's elbow will come from Westbrook's left or right wrist.Dr. Lewis Yocum, team physician for the Los Angeles Angels, and an expert on the care and repair of pitcher's elbows, will do the surgery. Soloff said it will take place in the next two weeks.Westbrook and Soloff visited Dr. Yocum on Friday in Los Angeles. Dr. Yocum confirmed the diagnosis of Dr. Mark Shickendantz, Indians head physician, that the ulnar collateral ligament needed repair.The Indians placed Westbrook on the disabled list Tuesday with a sore right elbow. Westbrook complained of soreness after a May 28 start against Chicago.Soloff said the injury wasn't caused by one pitch. "Stress and time," said Soloff. "Any pitcher who pitches at a high level is going have stress on his shoulder or elbow."The Indians were counting on Westbrook being a key member of what they felt in spring training was one of the best starting rotations in the big leagues. The rotation is still formidable, but it won't be as effective without Westbrook.Jeremy Sowers will take Westbrook's spot in the rotation.Fausto Carmona, another member of the opening-day rotation, is also on the disabled list, but is expected to pitch again this season. He strained his left hip on May 23 in a start against Texas."Losing Jake is a loss, said manager Eric Wedge. "But he'll still be around the clubhouse this year."Wedge said Westbrook's injury will not change the team's outlook. He believes the Indians can still contend in the AL Central."We have starting pitching depth and we're glad to use it," he said. Westbrook, who has been on the disabled list three times in the last two seasons, was 1-2 with a 3.12 ERA in five starts this year. He signed a $39.1 million contract extension last year through 2010.

It gets better and better...

 

[Tecumseh]

Once well-armed, Indians now face a rotation of questionsPosted by Terry Pluto terrypluto2003@yahoo.com June 07, 2008 19:25PMCategories: Indians, Terry Pluto columnsGuess you really can't have enough pitching. That's where the once pitching-rich Indians find themselves today after learning Jake Westbrook will be out for about a year with reconstructive elbow surgery. Duane Burleson/Associated PressWith the Indians' rotation thinned by injury, Aaron Laffey will have to continue to pitch well if the team hopes to stay in the division picture this summer.It was only a few months that the Tribe seemed positioned to withstand the possible loss to C.C. Sabathia to free agency. Their rotation was so strong, maybe eight deep with what seemed to be an almost embarrassing stash of young arms at Class AAA Buffalo: Jeremy Sowers, Aaron Laffey and Adam Miller. Now the Tribe has only four healthy starters under contract control for next season: Cliff Lee, Fausto Carmona, Lee and Sowers. And Carmona is out until the end of the month with a hip injury. And veterans Paul Byrd and Sabathia are headed to free agency. And if the season goes poorly and the Indians indeed try to deal Sabathia to a contender rather than watch him walk away after October -- now they may be looking for young arms instead of prospects who can hit. And there were some of us -- OK, at least me -- who wanted the Indians to trade some of their fresh arms for lively bat. Consider the situation. They can't count on Westbrook, who also had elbow surgery in 2002. According to the Tribe's medical people, the success rate for this type of elbow surgery is at least 80 percent. But healthy, when? Next June? Next August? The spring of 2010? Then there's Miller, out for the year with finger surgery. He's only 23, but has pitched only 93 innings over the last two seasons because of various injuries. Can't rely on him in 2009. Carmona has a great arm, but he's also had only one proven big league season (19-8, 3.06 ERA in 2007). Can he step up as the team's No. 1 starter in 2009? The Indians will find out. The 24-year-old Sowers now must regain the form he showed in 2006 (6-2, 2.72) after the All-Star break. He had a tired arm in 2007 and was shelled (1-6, 6.42 ERA). The lefty was 4-3 with a 2.08 ERA at Class AAA Buffalo, and makes his third start for the Tribe Sunday in Detroit. Laffey continues to impress, and they need him to remain consistent and healthy. Finally, Cliff Lee (9-1, 2.45 ERA) could end up saving the staff -- and there was serious consideration to trading him last winter. What was that about your best deals being the ones you don't make? The new phenom is David Huff, who allowed one run in six innings during his first Buffalo start. He was 5-1 with a 1.92 ERA at Class AA Akron. But he's only 23, has pitched a mere 140 pro innings. And he's another lefty, just like Laffey, Lee and Sowers. Will he be ready in 2009, and will the Indians actually have a rotation with four lefties? Remember that Westbrook signed a 3-year, $33 million extension that began this season. This certainly doesn't make the Indians long to pay $100 million for Sabathia or any other right-hander. It's possible they can take some of the money they offered Sabathia to sign another pitcher. They also can see if the 37-year-old Byrd (3-5, 4.46 ERA) is interested in returning on a one-year contract. The point is a team that once could trade pitching to get better suddenly needs some as soon as next season.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

News on Jake doesn't sound very promising. I'm thinking TJ#2 is in store...

Westbrook needs Tommy John surgery on right elbow; will miss at least a yearPosted by Paul Hoynes June 07, 2008 13:07PMCategories: IndiansDetroit --- Jake Westbrook needs ulnar collateral ligament surgery --- commonly known as Tommy John surgery --- on his right elbow. He's expected to miss at least a year.Lonnie Soloff, Indians head athletic trainer, said "80 to 85 percent" of pitchers who have ligament transplant surgery make successful recoveries. Westbrook is 30, but Soloff said age should not be a drawback in his comeback.Soloff said the ligament used to repair Westbrook's elbow will come from Westbrook's left or right wrist.Dr. Lewis Yocum, team physician for the Los Angeles Angels, and an expert on the care and repair of pitcher's elbows, will do the surgery. Soloff said it will take place in the next two weeks.Westbrook and Soloff visited Dr. Yocum on Friday in Los Angeles. Dr. Yocum confirmed the diagnosis of Dr. Mark Shickendantz, Indians head physician, that the ulnar collateral ligament needed repair.The Indians placed Westbrook on the disabled list Tuesday with a sore right elbow. Westbrook complained of soreness after a May 28 start against Chicago.Soloff said the injury wasn't caused by one pitch. "Stress and time," said Soloff. "Any pitcher who pitches at a high level is going have stress on his shoulder or elbow."The Indians were counting on Westbrook being a key member of what they felt in spring training was one of the best starting rotations in the big leagues. The rotation is still formidable, but it won't be as effective without Westbrook.Jeremy Sowers will take Westbrook's spot in the rotation.Fausto Carmona, another member of the opening-day rotation, is also on the disabled list, but is expected to pitch again this season. He strained his left hip on May 23 in a start against Texas."Losing Jake is a loss, said manager Eric Wedge. "But he'll still be around the clubhouse this year."Wedge said Westbrook's injury will not change the team's outlook. He believes the Indians can still contend in the AL Central."We have starting pitching depth and we're glad to use it," he said. Westbrook, who has been on the disabled list three times in the last two seasons, was 1-2 with a 3.12 ERA in five starts this year. He signed a $39.1 million contract extension last year through 2010.

It gets better and better...

Tigers lost Bonderman today for the season also. If these two teams split this series it is a gigantic failure for both. If one wins three, it's a gigantic failure for the other. Not sure how frustrated you guys are, but I'm at wits end.ETA: I take that back. If the Tigers win three of four they are still a gigantic failure.

 

[Tecumseh]

Tigers lost Bonderman today for the season also. If these two teams split this series it is a gigantic failure for both. If one wins three, it's a gigantic failure for the other. Not sure how frustrated you guys are, but I'm at wits end.ETA: I take that back. If the Tigers win three of four they are still a gigantic failure.

I think this series, and the upcoming one vs. the Twins is basically make-or-break for the season. The Tribe needs to win both series, otherwise they are sellers. Looks like the Tigers are in a similar situation, with the ChiSox coming up next.

 

[Bobcat10]

Tigers lost Bonderman today for the season also. If these two teams split this series it is a gigantic failure for both. If one wins three, it's a gigantic failure for the other. Not sure how frustrated you guys are, but I'm at wits end.ETA: I take that back. If the Tigers win three of four they are still a gigantic failure.

I think this series, and the upcoming one vs. the Twins is basically make-or-break for the season. The Tribe needs to win both series, otherwise they are sellers. Looks like the Tigers are in a similar situation, with the ChiSox coming up next.

Sell what?I'd say Byrd will be most tradeable, but probably won't net alot. Most teams could use a reliable #4 or #5 starter.Blake? Last year of contract, maybe could fill a void as 1b/3b/of/ph somewhere.Dellucci? Doubtful he has any value.Perlata? Is it worth selling him low?The crap in our bullpen? There was a blurb in the paper this weekend that said the Braves were scouting our pen in Detroit. Makes sense as they have issues also. Maybe we can get something minor for Borowski.Don't have much else to trade. I don't see Shapiro getting rid of any of the young underperformers.edit: CC

 

[Tom Servo]

Bud Shaw: Indians closing on hard choices

The Indians asked one ques tion about pitcher C.C. Sa bathia after he cut off negotiations: How could trading him make them a contender for 2008? It couldn't in General Manager Mark Shapiro's mind, so they didn't.

Given the way they've played, a slight twist in the conversation is in order. How can keeping him make any difference at all now?

The Indians have a month or so to find an answer, but the suspicion is they already know where this season is headed. Their bullpen is near the bottom of the league. They don't outhit their mistakes and rarely do they outhit the ballpark dimensions.

The lineup shuffle because of poor seasons and injuries briefly gave us a No. 4 hitter who started the season in Buffalo and a No. 5 hitter who started the season in Akron.

Say no more? Well, the nightly hunt for a No. 2 hitter goes to whomever hasn't shattered a bat most recently.

Catcher Victor Martinez is playing hurt and suffering a power outage. Designated hitter Travis Hafner is strengthening his shoulder on the disabled list, but no amount of exercise can fix him upstairs. That can only happen in the batter's box, and rarely does it occur overnight.

High winds, 90-degree heat and the worst pitching staff in the American League in Texas were required to give the Indians even the semblance of a team with major-league hitters. And now the pitching that was their strength took another scalping with the season-ending injury to Jake Westbrook.

Westbrook just joined Fausto Carmona on the disabled list, where others (Martinez, Rafael Betancourt) might also land. Westbrook's recovery from elbow ligament transplant surgery probably means he won't be himself until 2010.

How does that impact the Indians' dealings with Sabathia? Does it put even more pressure on them to get him signed at the end of the season?

Not hardly. Sabathia isn't looking for a two-year or three-year deal. He'll probably be looking for six or seven.

Whatever his performance this season, what he can demand on the free-agent market as a power left-hander a year removed from a Cy Young Award still puts him beyond the Indians' reach.

In fact, having $33 million tied up in a pitcher headed for Tommy John surgery should make re-signing Sabathia even scarier than before, and it was already chock full of fright for a team with the Indians' budget and with the organization's obvious need for quality hitters.

So the question isn't about whether it makes sense to trade Sabathia. It does.

If they keep him and he walks as a free agent, they'll get two No. 1 draft picks. A team that came within a win of the World Series last year doesn't need to look four years down the road.

Nobody should expect Shapiro to pull off a Bartolo Colon deal. Extra-special circumstances brought them Grady Sizemore, Brandon Phillips and Cliff Lee. Like the fact the Montreal Expos (now the Washington Nationals) were fighting for their survival.

Could he get quality offensive help that could give the Indians different means to the same end - contention this season? The Johan Santana and Danny Haren deals suggest that would be quite the trick.

Root for clarity between now and then - serious contention or total collapse. In between is nowhere.

2008 is the suck...

 

[wadegarrett]

2008 is a...

 

[wadegarrett]

Indians promote Barfield, Cabrera optioned to Buffalo

Posted by Paul Hoynes June 09, 2008 14:21PM

Categories: Breaking News, Indians

Detroit-- The Indians, looking for more offense, have recalled second baseman Josh Barfield from Class AAA Buffalo to replace struggling Asdrubal Cabrera. Barfield will be in uniform tonight when the Indians play Detroit to conclude an 11-game trip.

Barfield, the Indians starting second baseman last year until Cabrera took his job in August, was hitting .256 (65-for-254) with 16 doubles, one triple, five homers and 20 RBI for the Bisons. He stole nine bases in 13 attempts and made six errors.

The Indians anticipated Cabrera, in his first full season in the big leagues, struggling this year, but they valued his defense at second and short. Still, they never anticipated him struggling like he did.

The switch-hitting Cabrera goes to Buffalo after hitting .184 (29-for-158) with seven doubles, one homer and 14 RBI. With the injuries to sinkerball pitchers Jake Westbrook and Fausto Carmona , Cabera's defense did not carry as much weight as the potential for Barfield to help an offense hitting .241 as a team.

It's the lowest batting average in the AL.

Last year Cabrera hit .283 (45-for-159) with nine doubles, two triples, three homers and 22 RBI. He helped spark the Indians to the AL Central championship.

 

[Bobcat10]

Bout time Barfield gets a shot.

We should have DL'd VMart about 3 weeks ago when it was still chilly out. Kelly can hold the fort down. It's gonna happen at some point imo (just like you knew it would with Hafnerf and even Borowski).

 

[Encyclopedia Brown]

Do Cleveland homers think that Garko has finally turned it around this year, or is the last week just a mirage?

 

[Bobcat10]

Do Cleveland homers think that Garko has finally turned it around this year, or is the last week just a mirage?

He's having much better at bats lately...not trying to yank everything down the left field line. He also played four games in Arlington, where the Tribe looked like a top tier offense except for the last 8 innings. Kept it going somewhat in Detroit going 3 for 12 (hey .250 isn't bad when you were hitting .228 on May 30th), but with two homers. I'd say if you're looking for a bat in a deep league, there would be nothing wrong with adding Garko right now.

 

[INDIANSummer]

this season sucks my balls

 

[Tom Servo]

2008 is a...

this season sucks my balls

 

[Tecumseh]

1-0 Complete game shut out against a team ahead of us in the standings sure is a nice way to start the homestand.

 

[NDMatt]

Tigers lost Bonderman today for the season also. If these two teams split this series it is a gigantic failure for both. If one wins three, it's a gigantic failure for the other. Not sure how frustrated you guys are, but I'm at wits end.ETA: I take that back. If the Tigers win three of four they are still a gigantic failure.

I think this series, and the upcoming one vs. the Twins is basically make-or-break for the season. The Tribe needs to win both series, otherwise they are sellers. Looks like the Tigers are in a similar situation, with the ChiSox coming up next.

Sell what?I'd say Byrd will be most tradeable, but probably won't net alot. Most teams could use a reliable #4 or #5 starter.Blake? Last year of contract, maybe could fill a void as 1b/3b/of/ph somewhere.Dellucci? Doubtful he has any value.Perlata? Is it worth selling him low?The crap in our bullpen? There was a blurb in the paper this weekend that said the Braves were scouting our pen in Detroit. Makes sense as they have issues also. Maybe we can get something minor for Borowski.Don't have much else to trade. I don't see Shapiro getting rid of any of the young underperformers.edit: CC

think Atlanta would want another Wickman-esque closer from us?

 

[Bobcat10]

1-0 Complete game shut out against a team ahead of us in the standings sure is a nice way to start the homestand.

CC was a dominator last night. Retired last 17 he faced I think. Still need to hit better, but it seems Baker always pitching strong against us. Glad he was matched up against our beast. Time to take a few more steps forward without a few steps back.

 

[wadegarrett]

1-0 Complete game shut out against a team ahead of us in the standings sure is a nice way to start the homestand.

CC was a dominator last night. Retired last 17 he faced I think. Still need to hit better, but it seems Baker always pitching strong against us. Glad he was matched up against our beast.

Time to take a few more steps forward without a few steps back.

Exactly.First back-to-back wins since May 13th. That ain't gonna cut it.

 

[Bobcat10]

Bout time Barfield gets a shot.

We should have DL'd VMart about 3 weeks ago when it was still chilly out. Kelly can hold the fort down. It's gonna happen at some point imo (just like you knew it would with Hafnerf and even Borowski).

So I posted that three days ago.Barfield and VMart to the DL (just not for his hammy though). Asdrubal, keep your ### in Buffalo.

http://blog.cleveland.com/sports/2008/06/c...t_victor_m.html

Cleveland Indians put Victor Martinez, Josh Barfield on DL, promote two from Buffalo

Posted by From staff reports June 12, 2008 15:26PM

The Cleveland Indians today placed catcher Victor Martinez on the 15-day disabled list with right elbow inflammation and second baseman Josh Barfield on the 15-day DL with a left long finger sprain.

Catcher Yamid Haad and infielder Jorge Velandia were recalled from Class AAA Buffalo to take their roster spots.

Haad has spent the entire season at Buffalo after attending spring training with the Indians. He has hit .159 (10-for-63) with three doubles and three RBI in 25 games for the Bisons this year. He joined the Indians organization last May and hit .301 (34-113) in 35 games for the Bisons in 2007. He will wear No. 59.

Velandia, 33, was signed by the Indians as a minor league free agent on May 26 and has appeared in 16 games for the Bisons (.235, 16-68, 2B, 2 RBI). He spent the first part of 2008 at AAA Syracuse (Toronto affiliate), where he hit .287 (27-for-94) with three homers and 12 RBI in 28 games. In his Major League career, Velandia has hit .182 (43-for-236) with two homers and 23 RBI in 166 Major League games with San Diego, Oakland, the New York Mets, Tampa Bay and Toronto. He will wear No. 11.

Safe to say Haad won't be seeing much action. Velandia is the best we have for a team trying desperately to make a push?

 

[Bobcat10]

Thought this was a nice peice from somebody OUTSIDE our org, and that it profiled alot of guys we don't hear about (outside of Hodges and Huff, and DeLaCruz/Pontius to an extent).

A Scout's Take On The Indians

One of the cool things about going around to the different affiliates to check in on the players and teams each month is not only do I get a chance to see the players and talk to them, but every visit I meet someone new outside the Indians organization. Some of these people I have remained in contact with, and in this piece one of those contacts is a major league scout I have spoken to on several occasions.

I recently had the chance to sit down and talk on the phone with a major league scout who has the Indians as one of the teams he scouts for trades from Single-A Lake County all the way up to the major league team. It was a near 45-minute conversation where the scout was staying overnight in a hotel room out in the Midwest getting ready for his next pitstop in another minor league city.

This scout is one of the top scouts for the organization he scouts for. He has five organizations that he scouts, Cleveland being one of them, and will spend five days in each of the five organization's minor and major league cities to see their four full season minor league teams and major league team. He only sees each team once and does not come back the rest of the year. For example, he was in Lake County in early May and Kinston in mid-May, saw each club for five days (to see the five-man starting rotation make their starts), and will not be back to see them this year. This is the way it works for most clubs, if not all of them. Once the amateur staff is done with the Major League Draft, his organization will send crosscheckers out to see the guys again later in the year.

It should be noted that the scout in this piece has not been to Buffalo, so we did not spend any time talking about the few prospects that are on the team other than ones he may have seen in Akron earlier in the year. Bottom line, when the scout is evaluating talent he is scouting for tools and skills, and not so much performance. Guys who perform and don't have tools he said better really perform. The only performance that is considered is that which supports his projection. For example, if he says this guy will be a groundball pitcher he better show stats that he is a ground-baller down the road. It is not maybe and can-be, it is either they are or they are not.

In the interest of keeping the scout's comments direct and to the point, as well as keep his anonymity as he requested, this is but a raw article that pretty much takes what the scout said word for word on about a dozen players in the system. Some players we talked about for several minutes, while others for only a few seconds.

Anyway, here are the comments on each player we talked about:

Indians Top Prospects: "These are the top guys I have: Beau Mills, Mike Pontius, David Huff, Wes Hodges, Nick Weglarz, Hector Rondon, and Kelvin De La Cruz. There are others and they might jump into the mix. A couple under the radar type guys. That is the grouping so far."

Kelvin De La Cruz (LHP - Lake County): "Based on what I saw, he is a middle of the rotation starter on a championship club. He has enough velocity, and he may develop more. His stuff and pitch-ability support the role of a starter. I like his no fear aggressive approach. He has a simple fastball, curveball, changeup attack plan. I think he will at some point establish the major league order of command first, movement second, and velocity third. I think he is on the right career path. He pounds the zone. Good sink down in the zone. His curveball was fringy when I saw him, but it is a projectable plus-plus pitch with real good depth and a swing and miss put away type pitch. He showed the feel for the changeup, and I think that projects to be a plus pitch too. He is athletic as he handled all the bunts and all the comebackers. I think there is room there for more growth, usable strength and weight. You have to use your imagination a little bit with projection, but I like the kid. I really do."

Ryan Miller (LHP - Lake County): "He is a performer. He showed a solid-average fastball and a projectable average breaking pitch. His breaking ball is kind of a hybrid, it wandered back and forth between a slider and curveball. He showed a feel for a change and looks like it can develop into an average pitch. He is a medium frame performer type of guy. I think he will refine his secondary stuff to allow him to have major league value in at least a specialist role. If he tightens the slider, he could throw several of those in a row consecutively and retire left-handed hitters. I'd like to see him remain a starting pitcher, but I think the left-handed specialist role is an option for a championship organization. He'd be more a Triple-A starter or a left-handed specialist."

Chris Archer (RHP - Lake County): "Now this guy is really interesting. For me, he would be a notch above Miller. He was 89-93 MPH, 91 average. His curveball was 79 MPH. He has a projectable plus fastball. His curveball projects as a 55 for me, and his change as solid-average. He is a guy who I can see going bullpen or starter. His body type, there is room for more there and he is going to probably gain more. He has control and command issues, but my projection is based on flashes from what I have seen of him. His delivery and arm action faults are definitely correctable. In doing so, he will see an immediate command and control spike and then his projectable stuff will play up. When the stuff plays, he will see immediate improvement in four categories: K/9, HR/9, BB/9 and groundball percentage. He worked out of a bases loaded jams, has a live arm, plus velocity, projectable plus curveball, and a projectable average three-fingered straight change. His delivery he kind of rushed, he is rotational, and short in stride with the touchdown. He is just kind of a bad delivery kind of guy right now. Once that get straightens which is correctable and coachable because he is so young, when he stays on-line he flashes all that stuff you look for. Flash is his middle name right now, and he is a guy I see in the big leagues someday. I think the performance spike will come with the delivery cleanup and modifications. I like his on the field makeup. He is content and grinds through his wildness. He hangs in through his wildness, so you see the mental makeup there. He is young for the league and needs to repeat Low-A. I like this guy."

Mike Pontius (RHP - Kinston): "I like Mike a lot. I saw him in Lake County and in Kinston. Of all the people we have discussed, to me he has the highest projection. Moreso than De La Cruz, Miller, Archer, all of them. I learned he was a football player, from you actually. He lost a bunch of weight and he was under the radar, and he is now on the radar that's for sure. I have him as a late game setup type guy. He has major league late game setup man all over him. The velocity is there with a plus-plus fastball, and he has a projectable plus-plus curveball. He has the mental skills for the setup role, and the football mentality plays into it. There is no reason to rush him as he was young for the Sally League as it is a 21.9 average league. He is too good for the Sally League though, so it was good he was moved to High-A. He has a collection of tools and skills. Shades of a Rafael Betancourt type guy, but I feel he goes beyond that. He is kind of like a John Wetteland where he might end up being like a closer. I see him at least as a setup man. He has the Joe Borowski type curveball, but he has the Wetteland type velocity. That is a pretty good combo there. He pitches at an over-the-top angle so he leverages down on hitters well ands creates a good angle. His curveball comes out of the same slot so there is no chip off involved. I like his delivery, it is compact, correctional, and he repeats it. He does a good job reading bats, when he sees the hitter scuffling he goes right after that weakness. He pitches to his strengths, and he gets groundballs. He has some natural cutting action and movement on his fastball even though he is not a three-quarter angle guy. Curveball is a swing and miss pitch. To me, he needs innings pitched. It is hard to find faults with the guy. He just needs to get out there and pitch and stay healthy."

Luis Perdomo (RHP - Kinston): "That guy, he is interesting. I saw him last year, and he is definitely better this year. He has done some things that are pretty interesting. To me right now he would be a middle reliever guy and not a setup guy or closer. He pounds the zone with the fastball and slider. So goes his slider, so goes his upside. This year the slider has spiked and it is a lot better. He would be a good middle relief guy to come in and wipeout righties with that two-pitch plan. The slider is a swing-and-miss under the bat type pitch, so he can get lefties out too. Because of his velocity, guys will have to amp up on that and then they will get tricked with the slider. Command and control is the key with him. The mentality is there. He really flourishes in that role. He is aggressive and pounds the zone. He is 24 and right at the league average of 23.1, so he is a little old for the league. I like his velocity and slider, which is a swing and miss put away pitch."

Wes Hodges (3B - Akron): "I think he is better this year than last year. His bat profiles at first or third base, but I think he will play enough to stay at third. His body is better this year and it appears he has firmed it up. In instructional League in 2006 he had just signed and I heard good things about him in college and had never seen him, and when I saw him I thought ‘oh gosh he is going to have to firm up the body a little bit and show a little more agility and mobility', and he has done that. He has done a lot better this year than last, and he is going to play third base. He has enough agility and he makes all the plays, and I think he stays there. If I had to make the decision, I would not move him."

Jeanmar Gomez (RHP - Kinston): "To me, he will be an up and down type guy. He has a live arm with room for more velocity. His breaking ball is the missing part, and I think he needs to eliminate the slider and develop a curveball or splitter to compliment the overhand fastball. He is an over-the-top guy, and he needs another vertical pitch like the overhand breaking ball or split. Forget the slider because it does not work up there and it is very hittable. If he develops a top to bottom vertical pitch to go with his fastball, there is some hope there."

Hector Rondon (RHP - Kinston): "He is 20 years old, so he is 2.9 years young for the Carolina League. I have him as a #4/5 starter. He is an upgrade from 2007, and he has enough velocity to challenge with a power pitch. He also flashed for me a lot of touch and feel for finesse that is needed. He throws a fastball, breaking ball and changeup. I think he is an undervalued guy. There is a guy I like who is under the radar a bit. A definite upgrade from 2007."

David Huff (LHP - Buffalo): "I like him as a middle of the rotation guy. He has a veteran attack plan. It is all about command, movement and velocity. His fastball plays up because of his plus changeup. His changeup is a legitimate weapon against lefties and righties. He is in the upper echelon of the system."

Steven Wright (RHP - Kinston): "For me he is not a big league guy, I have him as an organizational guy."

Chuck Lofgren (LHP - Akron): "He has had a very rough year and been very inconsistent. I think with delivery work, the old Lofgren will re-appear."

Nick Weglarz (OF - Kinston): "I really like him a lot. The plate discipline is off the charts good, and the power is surely there."

 

[Wrigley]

Rumors here in Chicago, have the Cubbies asking what it's going to take to steal CC from you guys.

You guys hear anything like this?

 

[Bobcat10]

Rumors here in Chicago, have the Cubbies asking what it's going to take to steal CC from you guys.You guys hear anything like this?

I have not heard that they've been in any discussions with the Indians. I have heard rumors that the Cubs are very interested though. I don't see the Tribe doing anything until at least mid-July and as long as they are hanging around I don't think they'll do anything at all with CC.

 

[Bobcat10]

Wrig, where do you get these rumors (talk radio, nat'l media, etc)?

 

[Wrigley]

Rumors here in Chicago, have the Cubbies asking what it's going to take to steal CC from you guys.You guys hear anything like this?

I have not heard that they've been in any discussions with the Indians. I have heard rumors that the Cubs are very interested though. I don't see the Tribe doing anything until at least mid-July and as long as they are hanging around I don't think they'll do anything at all with CC.

thats what I was thinking too.ESPN has speculated that losing Victor, may expedite trade talks.

 

[Bobcat10]

Rumors here in Chicago, have the Cubbies asking what it's going to take to steal CC from you guys.You guys hear anything like this?

I have not heard that they've been in any discussions with the Indians. I have heard rumors that the Cubs are very interested though. I don't see the Tribe doing anything until at least mid-July and as long as they are hanging around I don't think they'll do anything at all with CC.

thats what I was thinking too.ESPN has speculated that losing Victor, may expedite trade talks.

Victor has been pretty worthless for over a month. I don't think that expedites anything.

 

[Wrigley]

Wrig, where do you get these rumors (talk radio, nat'l media, etc)?

I'm pretty sure Peter Gammons was the first to report this.

 

[Wrigley]

Rumors here in Chicago, have the Cubbies asking what it's going to take to steal CC from you guys.You guys hear anything like this?

I have not heard that they've been in any discussions with the Indians. I have heard rumors that the Cubs are very interested though. I don't see the Tribe doing anything until at least mid-July and as long as they are hanging around I don't think they'll do anything at all with CC.

thats what I was thinking too.ESPN has speculated that losing Victor, may expedite trade talks.

Victor has been pretty worthless for over a month. I don't think that expedites anything.

I for one don't see it happening. You guys are still only 6.5 games back, and chasing WS team that doesn't exactly look like world beaters, I'd say CC stays where he is.Some wishful thinking................even when I knew it was too good to be true.

 

[Tom Servo]

Nice job taking two of three from the Fathers over the weekend.

BTW, did you guys happen to catch Maddux dropping the S-bomb on that one hit in the 6th yesterday?

Oh, and for the record, Allison Spitzer creeps me out. That is one spooky chick.

 

[wadegarrett]

Nice job taking two of three from the Fathers over the weekend. BTW, did you guys happen to catch Maddux dropping the S-bomb on that one hit in the 6th yesterday? Oh, and for the record, Allison Spitzer creeps me out. That is one spooky chick.

Unfortunately I went to the one we lost. C.C. still looking good.

 

[Tecumseh]

The Indians are "thoroughly scouting" eight teams that may be interested in C.C. Sabathia, including the Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs, and Dodgers (the Mets may be another). Gammons agrees with Ken Rosenthal that Mark Shapiro may trade Sabathia soon to maximize his value. Gammons does not see the Yanks jumping in with Phil Hughes or a multi-prospect offer, unless Chien-Ming Wang's injury forces their hand. He does not think the Cubs or Phillies have the goods, but suggests the Rangers as a dark horse.

 

[wadegarrett]

The Indians are "thoroughly scouting" eight teams that may be interested in C.C. Sabathia, including the Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs, and Dodgers (the Mets may be another). Gammons agrees with Ken Rosenthal that Mark Shapiro may trade Sabathia soon to maximize his value. Gammons does not see the Yanks jumping in with Phil Hughes or a multi-prospect offer, unless Chien-Ming Wang's injury forces their hand. He does not think the Cubs or Phillies have the goods, but suggests the Rangers as a dark horse.

Interesting.

 

[Wrigley]

The Indians are "thoroughly scouting" eight teams that may be interested in C.C. Sabathia, including the Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs, and Dodgers (the Mets may be another). Gammons agrees with Ken Rosenthal that Mark Shapiro may trade Sabathia soon to maximize his value. Gammons does not see the Yanks jumping in with Phil Hughes or a multi-prospect offer, unless Chien-Ming Wang's injury forces their hand. He does not think the Cubs or Phillies have the goods, but suggests the Rangers as a dark horse.

Link? From where?

HERE