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Official Donald Trump for President thread (4 Viewers)

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The complaining about political correctness only applies when it is affecting someone YOU ####heads want to insult and not feel bad about.  Now, everyone needs to stop picking on Donald, because he's a special little flower?

No way, bro!!!!!!!!!!!!.  I'm going to go get a tribal tattoo, drink 5 Monster Energy drinks, print up some T-Shirts with disgusting slogans about Melania, and throw some elbows at the first inbred hick in a cowboy hat I see.

IT'S GONNNA BE EXTREME!!!!!!! DON'T TREAD ON ME!!!!!!!!

 
[scooter] said:
Yes, he is incorrect. Trump says "you're living in poverty" as if it applies to the majority of African Americans, when it doesn't.

You are doing the same thing.

The fact is, the vast majority of African Americans (73.8%) don't live in poverty. True, that number is higher than other ethnic groups. But when a person says "you're" as a representation of 26.2% of blacks -- but not the 23.6% of Hispanics or the 12.7% of whites who are also in poverty -- then it is at best patronizing, and at worst racist.

The fact is, the black poverty rate peaked under Reagan and bottomed-out under Clinton. Black lives got a lot better when a Clinton was in office.

If Trump was running against Obama, then he might score some points by pointing out that the black poverty rate increased slightly under Obama. But all it's really doing is reminding blacks of how bad things can get when a Republican is in charge.
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Thank you. I guess I don't have to worry about Black poverty anymore.

 
bueno said:
Eminence said:
Not at all, if that group was the Ku Klux Klan it would be valid. But calling millions of fellow Americans bigots because of who they support for President is invalid.

I don't think you or anyone else who supports Clinton is crooked just because she is. I'm not silly enough to project traits onto people based on their political opinions.
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Em makes a good point. If all who support Trump are bigots, then all who support HRC are corrupt.
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Em wasn't addressing the idea that all Trump supporters are bigots -- just that millions of them are. Em's point, as originally phrased, was appropriately rebuffed.

 
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Maurile Tremblay said:
The official platform doesn't mean anything. Even if it did mean something, candidates hold positions on more than one issue. When  you vote for the candidate you agree with 38% of the time over the candidate you agree with 31% of the time, it doesn't mean that 38% is suddenly equal to 100%. (Although as apalmer implied a few posts back, if you vote for a candidate because he is anti-gay, that's another matter.)
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Does it really take more than one issue to be(come) a bigot?

 
[scooter] said:
Yes, he is incorrect. Trump says "you're living in poverty" as if it applies to the majority of African Americans, when it doesn't.

You are doing the same thing.

The fact is, the vast majority of African Americans (73.8%) don't live in poverty. True, that number is higher than other ethnic groups. But when a person says "you're" as a representation of 26.2% of blacks -- but not the 23.6% of Hispanics or the 12.7% of whites who are also in poverty -- then it is at best patronizing, and at worst racist.

The fact is, the black poverty rate peaked under Reagan and bottomed-out under Clinton. Black lives got a lot better when a Clinton was in office.

If Trump was running against Obama, then he might score some points by pointing out that the black poverty rate increased slightly under Obama. But all it's really doing is reminding blacks of how bad things can get when a Republican is in charge.
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It's also a squeaky wheel argument. The stereotype of an AA is someone living in poverty. The stereotype is built by the media, especially news coverage.Liberals often rail about white privilege and black poverty. It's a stereotype we have all created.

 
bueno said:
It's also a squeaky wheel argument. The stereotype of an AA is someone living in poverty. The stereotype is built by the media, especially news coverage.
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Good point. Donald Trump fell for a stereotype created by the liberal media, as did everyone who agreed with him.

Code: 
Is he incorrect?
 
msommer said:
Does it really take more than one issue to be(come) a bigot?
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It takes only one issue on a position someone actually holds. If someone is a racist, for example, that one issue is sufficient to make him a bigot.

That's not what we're talking about, though. What we're talking about is that someone may not hold certain positions -- for example, he may not be a racist -- in which case, he isn't automatically a bigot just because he votes for a bigot. Similarly, someone isn't automatically crooked just because he votes for someone who is crooked.

People on both sides seem to be having trouble with this. Some think people are bigots if they vote for Trump even if they hold no bigoted views. Others think people are not bigots for voting for Trump even if the reason they vote for Trump is that they share his bigoted views. Both positions are incorrect.

 
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Maurile Tremblay said:
I'm not sure what you're getting at, but under normal circumstances, a person's mortgage will generally be for less than the value of the property securing that mortgage.
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A weak way of making my point. Many companies have revenue that can support their debt. Debt load by itself says nothing.

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
It takes only one issue on a position someone actually holds. If someone is a racist, for example, that one issue is sufficient to make him a bigot.

That's not what we're talking about, though. What we're talking about is that someone may not hold certain positions -- for example, he may not be a racist -- in which case, he isn't automatically a bigot just because he votes for a bigot. Similarly, someone isn't automatically crooked just because he votes for someone who is crooked.

People on both sides seem to be having trouble with this. Some people think people are bigots if they vote for Trump even if they hold no bigoted views. Others think people are not bigots for voting for Trump even if the reason they vote for Trump is that they share his bigoted views. Both positions are incorrect.
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Pretty academic since we'll never find out whether anyone really holds any position. They could just be pretending....

If it looks like a duck...

 
msommer said:
Pretty academic since we'll never find out whether anyone really holds any position. They could just be pretending....

If it looks like a duck...
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It's not academic. Consider the real-life example of Paul Ryan. He has criticized and distanced himself from Trump's racist remarks, but he's still voting for Trump for other reasons. Do you think that makes him a racist? (If so, do you think everyone who votes for Hillary is crooked?)

I suspect that there are a great many Paul Ryans out there.

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
It's not academic. Consider the real-life example of Paul Ryan. He has criticized and distanced himself from Trump's racist remarks, but he's still voting for Trump for other reasons. Do you think that makes him a racist? (If so, do you think everyone who votes for Hillary is crooked?)

I suspect that there are a great many Paul Ryans out there.
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If you're willing to overlook bigotry, what does that say about you?

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
It takes only one issue on a position someone actually holds. If someone is a racist, for example, that one issue is sufficient to make him a bigot.

That's not what we're talking about, though. What we're talking about is that someone may not hold certain positions -- for example, he may not be a racist -- in which case, he isn't automatically a bigot just because he votes for a bigot. Similarly, someone isn't automatically crooked just because he votes for someone who is crooked.

People on both sides seem to be having trouble with this. Some think people are bigots if they vote for Trump even if they hold no bigoted views. Others think people are not bigots for voting for Trump even if the reason they vote for Trump is that they share his bigoted views. Both positions are incorrect.
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:goodposting: I have an aunt who is a religious nut.  She dis-likes many things Trump has said and done, but insists she is going to vote for him because he is going to repeal Roe v Wade.  (Trying to explain to her that he CAN NOT repeal Roe v Wade was a fun conversation)  Anyway, the point is, my aunt is 100% NOT a bigot, but she is going to vote for a man who, based on the preponderance of evidence, IS a bigot.  It doesn't make her a bigot.

 
Bayhawks said:
:goodposting: I have an aunt who is a religious nut.  She dis-likes many things Trump has said and done, but insists she is going to vote for him because he is going to repeal Roe v Wade.  (Trying to explain to her that he CAN NOT repeal Roe v Wade was a fun conversation)  Anyway, the point is, my aunt is 100% NOT a bigot, but she is going to vote for a man who, based on the preponderance of evidence, IS a bigot.  It doesn't make her a bigot.
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Did you ask her how she feels voting for a guy who quotes Two Corinthians?  That made it pretty clear he's never been in a church in his life.

 
Cliff Clavin said:
If you're willing to overlook bigotry, what does that say about you?
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That you understand the idea of tradeoffs? That you're capable of holding two or more separate ideas in your head at the same time? Or maybe that you're a bigot. There are a number of possibilities that can't be ruled out; which means that no particular possibility can be confidently assumed, even if assuming it would allow you the sweet pleasure of denigrating your entire out-group with a single broad brush.

This is a frustrating election cycle because there are basically no good reasons to support Trump -- at least none that I can think of that hold up to even moderate scrutiny. Trump and his supporters merit criticism and occasionally even mockery to a greater extent than any other recent political movement in America. There is a seemingly endless supply of well-founded criticisms that may be fittingly leveled at them. And yet roughly half of the criticisms aimed at them, or so it sometimes seems, are unsound or logically invalid. Why reach? Why not just stick to factually accurate and logically compelling criticisms?

 
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apalmer said:
Did you ask her how she feels voting for a guy who quotes Two Corinthians?  That made it pretty clear he's never been in a church in his life.
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No, but I asked her how she could vote for a guy who is a bigot, a racist, a sexist, multiple time divorced (big no-no for her), and she replied that God will touch his soul and make him a better man.

I don't know how you're supposed to argue that:  "this guy is a total #####-bag, but God will change him."

 
Riversco said:
I just posted a study that shows 3rd generation Americans and later are actually split between saying government is the problem or the solution. In 2016 California, there is a large population of 1st and 2nd generation immigrants and those groups largely agree that government is the solution.  As they age and die off they get replaced by 3rd generation americans that move to the right on that question.

In 2066, the latinos in California will be 3rd generation.  They will be split on the idea of government being the solution or the problem.  Meanwhile California whites will be overwhelmingly in the republican camp.  California will be a red state.  
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It's that bad huh? Just wait til 2066!!!

 
Eminence said:
You're too biased to really see what's going on. Stop calling us Trumpettes, treat us with respect, treat Donald with respect, and maybe you'll start seeing this race with a little more clarity.

There's redeeming qualities to both candidates.
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You're supporting a bigot. You don't deserve respect. Don't make me post all the links again.

 
badmojo1006 said:
In Major Reversal, Trump Indicates To Hispanic Leaders Openness To Legalization For Immigrants

That is like his major policy and he is trying to change it with 80 days left before the election. Reeks bad of desperation.

I know one poster's head in this thread is going to explode. I am sure a lot of supporters are going to feel betrayed.
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Importantly, Trump did not explicitly use the word “legalization,” but people in the room feel it is the direction the campaign is going.
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I'm not sure I see this as a major reversal at all. He still is in favor of border security; he has only said he wants to deal with those here "humanely and efficiently." That could mean anything.

 
bueno said:
badmojo1006 said:
In Major Reversal, Trump Indicates To Hispanic Leaders Openness To Legalization For Immigrants

That is like his major policy and he is trying to change it with 80 days left before the election. Reeks bad of desperation.

I know one poster's head in this thread is going to explode. I am sure a lot of supporters are going to feel betrayed.
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Importantly, Trump did not explicitly use the word “legalization,” but people in the room feel it is the direction the campaign is going.
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I'm not sure I see this as a major reversal at all. He still is in favor of border security; he has only said he wants to deal with those here "humanely and efficiently." That could mean anything.
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On his plans to deport the estimated 11 million undocumented immigrants in the United States, Trump said that he "would not call it mass deportation" and later tweeted that he did not like that terminology. He did not, however, clarify if deportations were still a central theme of his plan - though this was very clearly established point during the primaries.

This was his position 2 months ago

 
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