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Official Donald Trump for President thread (2 Viewers)

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SaintsInDome2006 said:
Ha ok, I probably am, I just thought this discussion could use some devils advocacy. Just hold Trump to the same standard as Bill Clinton, that seems reasonable doesn't it?
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The difference is the legal standard to impeach versus the moral standard for voting for someone.  Had Clinton's conduct come to light before the election instead of when it did, then you could argue that those who voted for him knowing about it had no business voting against Trump for his conduct.  The fact that it wasn't legally sufficient to remove Clinton from office is irrelevant to whether one should morally vote for Trump.

 
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So now we know when Trump thinks America was Great before, when men could carry out and brag about sexual harrassment without potentially negative repercussions

 
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apalmer said:
The difference is the legal standard to impeach versus the moral standard for voting for someone.  Had Clinton's conduct come to light before the election instead of when it did, then you could argue that those who voted for him knowing about it had no business voting against Trump for his conduct.  The fact that it wasn't legally sufficient to remove Clinton from office is irrelevant to whether one should morally vote for Trump.
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He was impeached for perjury, not for infidelity or sexual harassment or vulgar language.

I can't recall if Clinton's sexual harassment issues were public knowledge in 1992, but the definitely were in 1996. So yeah, if you voted for Clinton then, you have a problem now.

 
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IvanKaramazov said:
He was impeached for perjury, not for infidelity or sexual harassment or vulgar language.
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Technically true, but SID's post that I was responding to was to the effect that Clinton's impeachment hearings made it clear his conduct was OK, so Trump shouldn't be held to a different standard. And, for 99% of those who wanted him out, it was clear that the sexual conduct wasn't grounds for impeachment, which is why the charge was perjury.

 
All over my facebook feed this morning the "Grab em in the #####!" story.  All the Trump supporters are saying that it is just boys being boys, Bill did worse, emails, or Benghazi. 

 
SHIZNITTTT said:
All over my facebook feed this morning the "Grab em in the #####!" story.  All the Trump supporters are saying that it is just boys being boys, Bill did worse, emails, or Benghazi. 
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That is shameful.  I don't doubt Bill is just as crude and vulgar about woman as Trump is, but he's not running for president.  

 
Ghost Rider said:
That is shameful.  I don't doubt Bill is just as crude and vulgar about woman as Trump is, but he's not running for president.  
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That's a fair point, but when Bill WAS president, many of these same people defended him to the scorched earth.  Totally fair to point that out now.  

That doesn't make Trump okay.  He's human garbage.  Some of us have been consistent on this sort of thing over the years.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
I can't recall if Clinton's sexual harassment issues were public knowledge in 1992, but the definitely were in 1996. So yeah, if you voted for Clinton then, you have a problem now.
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Nope.  Lewinski story broke in 1997.  Paula Jones was out there with allegations before 1996, but with little or no proof.

 
Daywalker said:
I have never heard another guy brag to me about cheating on their wife/girlfriend with another married woman.  I've seen people do it.  But it takes a special type of creep to brag about it to someone they probably barely know.  Which i bet is the case with Billy Bush.  Ha.

Trump is filth.  If he was your father you'd be ashamed.  If he was your son you'd sit him down and try to explain to him this is not how a man acts.

Only thing left for Trump to do is to put on a white sheet and start dropping N-bombs.  He's done everything else.  That's not hyperbole.  
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IvanKaramazov said:
That's a fair point, but when Bill WAS president, many of these same people defended him to the scorched earth.  Totally fair to point that out now.  

That doesn't make Trump okay.  He's human garbage.  Some of us have been consistent on this sort of thing over the years.
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Very true. 

 
IvanKaramazov said:
Right.  Paula Jones was well known by then.
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With a case that was eventually thrown out of court.  Pretty tough to base your claims on that.  Those who do can't support Trump because there's a woman out there who has a lawsuit that claims he raped her, which puts her in the Paula Jones position.

 
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If this story is truly the final downfall of Donald Trump's campaign, then that would be awesome. And yet- 

Why didn't Trump's comments about Mexicans being rapists end his campaign? Why didn't Trump's comments about Muslims end his campaign? That's what outrages me. 

 
The nice thing about all of this is that we will soon have a pretty accurate accounting of this nation's morons. Exactly where and how many? We'll find out in early November.

 
apalmer said:
With a case that was eventually thrown out of court.  Pretty tough to base your claims on that.
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The pattern was pretty clear by then, if you cared.  And like you argued earlier, there's a difference between a legal standard used to decide a case and the moral standard you apply when you vote.

 
Coeur de Lion said:
Oh, absolutely. But what scares me is the thought that next cycle, an actual competent politician, who actually wants to win, might decide to take the white Christian nativist playbook and run with it. If an idiot like Trump can come this close...
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You can count on it in 2020. 

 
msommer said:
Have you lost your marbles? Pence is the embodiment of the stuff you have been ranting against for years. And you want him to win? Against your golden girl? Because of Trump?

Sorry-o. Both Trump and Pence needs to disappear in ignominy
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You don't understand. I think a Trump presidency would threaten America itself. I've always thought so. Our institutions, our Constitution, our very nature would be under attack. 

Mike Pence, on the other hand, would simply be a President I tend to oppose a lot of the time. 

 
IvanKaramazov said:
No, Clinton just managed to convince his party to go to the mattresses for him.  The partisanship was mostly on that side of the aisle.  For a brief moment, Deomcrats decided that they were okay with sexual harassment if it meant keeping Gore out of the White House.  For some reason.
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Clinton's approval ratings reached 73%(!) as Clinton was being impeached in December of 1998, almost entirely due to the perception that the whole thing was a Republican witch hunt.  It went a long way towards getting him off the hook for the stuff he actually did that was wrong IMO.

 
Groper in chief

The story that Harth and the boyfriend, George Houraney, tell of their interactions with Trump over six years — including business cheating and attempted rape — shows how that predation worked in practice. “He name-dropped continuously,” Harth said under oath in a deposition in a subsequent lawsuit, “when he wasn’t groping me.”

 
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IvanKaramazov said:
The pattern was pretty clear by then, if you cared.  And like you argued earlier, there's a difference between a legal standard used to decide a case and the moral standard you apply when you vote.
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Actually it wasn't. 

It's clear that Bill Clinton cheated on his wife, with a lot of different women. But the evidence that he made unwanted advances on women, that he committed sexual assault, or that he raped anybody, is sketchy. It's largely based on the testimonies of a few women that were surrounded by Republican political operatives when they made their charges. 

I think it's very plausible that Bill Clinton has  never made unwanted advances on women. 

 
LittlePhatty said:
I'm sure Lying Ted and Boring Jeb are kicking themselves right now for not digging this stuff up during the primary. It was out there all along, just waiting to be found. But no one in the GOP took Trump seriously until it was too late.
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Here's how it was found:

"Access Hollywood" began digging into its archives for videos of Donald Trump earlier this week.

The impetus was an Associated Press story, the show's host Natalie Morales said on Friday evening, where former staff members of the show "The Apprentice" described Trump's behavior toward women, calling them "lewd" and "inappropriate."

Morales said that in the course of their reporting, "Access Hollywood" staffers looked back at the many interviews they've had with Trump and discovered the footage of Trump with then-host Billy Bush chatting on a bus about women and using vulgar language.

"We'll tell you all of the logistics so you understand the context," Morales said. "There were seven other people on the bus with Mr. Trump and Billy Bush at the time. They were with a two-person camera crew, the bus driver, an 'Access Hollywood' producer, a production assistant, Mr. Trump's security guard and his PR person. Upon arriving at our NBC lot our camera crew was let off the bus so they could record Mr. Trump getting off and meeting the soap opera star."

The show also revealed that the "Nancy" Trump is heard admitting he "moved on her and I failed," is former "Access Hollywood" host and now Entertainment Tonight host Nancy O'Dell.

"I did try and #### her. She was married,” Trump says in the video. "And I moved on her very heavily. In fact, I took her out furniture shopping. She wanted to get some furniture. I said, ‘I’ll show you where they have some nice furniture.'"

But though "Access Hollywood" was preparing a segment on the unearthed video, the Washington Post altered the show's plans.

According to the Post, at 11a.m. on Friday, reporter David Fahrenthold received a phone call offering the video (the Post did not say who the source was). By 4p.m., the Post had its story up. NBC News, which is under the same parent company as "Access Hollywood," published its own version of the video and story mere minutes after the Post on Friday afternoon, having been tipped off that the newspaper had it as well when Fahrenthold called the network for comment.

The Post's story became "the most concurrently viewed article in the history of The Post’s website," according to the paper's media reporter, Paul Farhi.

 
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timschochet said:
Actually it wasn't. 

It's clear that Bill Clinton cheated on his wife, with a lot of different women. But the evidence that he made unwanted advances on women, that he committed sexual assault, or that he raped anybody, is sketchy. It's largely based on the testimonies of a few women that were surrounded by Republican political operatives when they made their charges. 

I think it's very plausible that Bill Clinton has  never made unwanted advances on women. 
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Likely even.  He's well-known for his ability to smooth talk people and women were drawn to him.  Unlike Trump, who has to buy his women from foreign countries.

 
RBM said:
The hypocrites out in full force today. All of a sudden everyone is a saint. 
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Weak effort here...even for you.

And no...very few hypocrites, waiting for all the Trump fans who blast Bill to defend Trump now.  That is the actual hypocrisy. 

 
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