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Official Donald Trump for President thread (3 Viewers)

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http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/01/20/exclusive-ann-coulter-the-government-hasnt-the-first-idea-how-many-illegal-aliens-are-in-the-country/

Any half-wit knows that the government hasn’t the first idea how many illegal aliens are in the country,” Coulter told Breitbart News in response to the bogus study, which was hyped by the Washington Post. “Not the the foggiest notion. Government officials can’t even tell us how many illegal aliens are in the government’s own custody in prison — and they show surprisingly little interest in finding out. Suspicions ought to be piqued by the fact that all official sources assure us that there have been exactly 11 million illegal aliens in the country for more than a decade now.
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the government estimates the number of illegal aliens based on census surveys.

But, as she says: “People who have left their families, paid huge sums of money to smugglers, trekked thousands of miles, and broken American law to enter this country don’t have much incentive to fill out questionnaires from the U.S. government.”
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Meanwhile, as far back as 1990, Coulter writes, anthropologist Maxine Margolis found “that the Brazilian consulate counted 100,000 Brazilians living in New York City, while the Brazilian foreign office put the number at 230,000. That same year, the 1990 census reported that only 9,200 Brazilians lived in New York City
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[scooter] said:
A republic is a democracy; but a democracy is not necessarily a republic.

At any rate, the electoral college was created solely to placate the slave states. The black inhabitants were allowed to count toward the electoral votes, but only at a 3/5ths rate. Today the black inhabitants count at a 5/5ths rate, but since they are still in the minority it gives the white majority even more power than it had before.
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The 3/5ths thing determined how many representatives a state got. Slave states therefore got LESS representatives because of that.

http://www.historycentral.com/elections/Electoralcollgewhy.html

 
Sammy3469 said:
Please, he ran a bigoted campaign and I sure as hell told my 5 year old so when he brought him up.  There is a right and wrong and a lot of what Trump said in the campaign was just flat out wrong.  I have no problem telling my son not to support that.
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Um, I think you misunderstood - I didn't tell anybody to support what he said.  I said we support the office of the President.  When I said I explained why people were upset, I explained that his said racist and misogynistic things and he should apologized.  My post didn't really make that clear.  Also, and I've posted this elsewhere, I didn't vote for either of them and I explained why.  I somewhat had a bigger issue with Trump being completely unqualified for the position than his comments, that was just icing on the cake.

 
Sammy3469 said:
Please, he ran a bigoted campaign and I sure as hell told my 5 year old so when he brought him up.  There is a right and wrong and a lot of what Trump said in the campaign was just flat out wrong.  I have no problem telling my son not to support that.
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My seven year old daughter said Hillary was a liar.

I told her don't worry about that, kid, you still have 11 more years before you get to vote. Now let's watch some cartoons

 
How do I explain to my 8 yr old twins who have an 8 yr old sister that we almost had a President that took money from people that kill gays and give 0 rights to women? (saudi money)

 
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This country is so nuts right now. We must look schizophrenic to the rest of the world.

George Bush, then Obama and both houses of Congress were Democratic, then 8 years later it's Trump and both houses are Republican.

Now I see the protest in L.A. and the signs like 'Not My President' and swastikas suggesting Trump is fascist remind me so much of the Tea Party. Trump saying 'we won' like Obama in 08. It's like the two sides switched uniforms at halftime or something.

 
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Dickies said:
I love America, which is why I would like to improve some of the idiotic things that we do.  The electoral college is rooted in slavery and in modern society serves no purpose.  It's the system we have, and I have no desire to argue the outcome of the election.
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Your beliefs are rooted in ignorance:

The Electoral College system gives a fixed number of votes to each state, linked to the size of its population. Each state gets the number of “electors” equal to its delegation to the Senate (2) and House of Representatives (ranging from 1 to 52). The total number of EC votes up for grabs is 538, with 270 being the number to reach to win the election.

The idea is that doing it this way people living in smaller, often more rural states, would get their voices heard too. If the U.S. had elections based on popular votes alone, the candidates would focus most of their attention on areas with large populations. Would it be fair that policies benefitting California or New York, where a big chunk of Americans lives, should be the main ones enacted, at the expense of policies that would focus, let’s say, on the Rust Belt states, who were key in deciding the current election? 

 
GrandpaRox said:
Your beliefs are rooted in ignorance:

The Electoral College system gives a fixed number of votes to each state, linked to the size of its population. Each state gets the number of “electors” equal to its delegation to the Senate (2) and House of Representatives (ranging from 1 to 52). The total number of EC votes up for grabs is 538, with 270 being the number to reach to win the election.

The idea is that doing it this way people living in smaller, often more rural states, would get their voices heard too. If the U.S. had elections based on popular votes alone, the candidates would focus most of their attention on areas with large populations. Would it be fair that policies benefitting California or New York, where a big chunk of Americans lives, should be the main ones enacted, at the expense of policies that would focus, let’s say, on the Rust Belt states, who were key in deciding the current election? 
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That's why we have the Senate.

 
Jim11 said:
[scooter] said:
A republic is a democracy; but a democracy is not necessarily a republic.

At any rate, the electoral college was created solely to placate the slave states. The black inhabitants were allowed to count toward the electoral votes, but only at a 3/5ths rate. Today the black inhabitants count at a 5/5ths rate, but since they are still in the minority it gives the white majority even more power than it had before.
Click to expand...
The 3/5ths thing determined how many representatives a state got. Slave states therefore got LESS representatives because of that.

http://www.historycentral.com/elections/Electoralcollgewhy.html
Click to expand...
The 3/5ths "thing" didn't just determine representatives -- it also determined presidential electors and taxes. The founding fathers didn't want the slaves to count as 5/5ths because they didn't want the slave states to dominate Congress; but they also didn't want the slaves to count as 0/5ths because it would result in lower tax revenue from slaves states. So they settled on 3/5ths, which seemed like a fair number at the time but in the long run it gave the south far more influence than it should have had. (It's the primary reason why almost every president in the early days was from a slave state.)

 
[scooter] said:
A republic is a democracy; but a democracy is not necessarily a republic.

At any rate, the electoral college was created solely to placate the slave states. The black inhabitants were allowed to count toward the electoral votes, but only at a 3/5ths rate. Today the black inhabitants count at a 5/5ths rate, but since they are still in the minority it gives the white majority even more power than it had before.
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You realize if the "popular " vote decided the election Trump would have won. The GOP have given up the west coast and spend minimal time and money campaigning there. So it's a false narrative .

 
Uncle CornCob said:
You realize if the "popular " vote decided the election Trump would have won. The GOP have given up the west coast and spend minimal time and money campaigning there. So it's a false narrative .
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Nobody campaigns here.  If it were strictly a popular vote I am not going to claim Clinton would have won, but I am confident more people would get out to vote.  Isn't that a good thing?  I know many liberal people here that don't bother voting because they know it will always be overwhelmingly Democrat.

 
SameSongNDance said:
I've been brushing up on Reform Party platform since I now personally think that is the upside of his presidency. You may remember that I told you "80% of that is common sense".

I can only hope you were right, that he hijacked the GOP to push reform party policies.

The truth is I'm more afraid of who he surrounds himself with. As long as he doesn't cave to neocons (infrastructure, trade deals, special interests and etc.) I'll be happy relative to the situation.
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Much respect for putting in the time. I think that is his baseline. President Trumps true feelings on policy when he had no reason to deceive when he put out the america we deserve. There are going to be differences since he has probably evolved some positions since the 2000' and there are going to be regulatory, congressional and practicality roadblocks to contend with. He will have to compromise, but even then what you are going to get is a Republican light overall position without the religious right BS.

 
The regional reasons for creating the electoral college are much less relevant in the modern world of easy automobile/air travel, national television news, and the internet.  There is no inherent reason for one region of the country to have the same weight in an election as another.  So when an argument starts with "in order to make sure regions of the country were weighted equally" it's really a non-starter.  We no longer live in a time where people in Georgia know as much about politics in New York as they know about politics on Neptune.

The electoral college at its core makes the assumption that democrats in California are democrats because they live in California, and that republicans in Texas are republicans because they live in Texas.  It doesn't account for people that moved to those areas because those areas share their values nor does it account for people that moved to those regions for other reasons (like a job).  People that fall into these categories are obviously exponentially larger now than they were 200 years ago.

Another problem with the electoral college is that it was patently un-American at its core.  As Alexander Hamilton writes about in the Federalist Papers, the other major reason for the electoral college outside of regional representation was to put an additional layer of government abstraction between the people in the presidency.  That is to say, literally, we let the people choose the president....unless the people choose wrong, then the government picks someone else.  Ironically, it was created to prevent a fringe candidate like Donald Trump from ever becoming president.

Obviously that part of it is just a formality now as the people quickly figured out how F'ed up that was.  So now people are able to vote on the candidates directly on their ballots (instead of voting for each individual electorate) which makes it much harder for an electorate to go against the will of the people without being eviscerated, and most states have laws requiring the electorates to vote together and to vote in line with the will of the people.  However, it is worth noting that things were not originally drawn up that way, so when people defend the electoral college as the founding fathers originally intended it, well, that was a part of it.

 
Loan Sharks said:
Much respect for putting in the time. I think that is his baseline. President Trumps true feelings on policy when he had no reason to deceive when he put out the america we deserve. There are going to be differences since he has probably evolved some positions since the 2000' and there are going to be regulatory, congressional and practicality roadblocks to contend with. He will have to compromise, but even then what you are going to get is a Republican light overall position without the religious right BS.
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Are you cool with mentally ill men going to the same bathroom as our daughters? Some social issues need to be fought on the conservative side and that is one of them

 
Dickies said:
That's why we have the Senate.
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America’s election systems have operated smoothly for more than 200 years because the Electoral College accomplishes its intended purposes. America’s presidential election process preserves federalism, prevents chaos, grants definitive electoral outcomes, and prevents tyrannical or unreasonable rule. The Founding Fathers created a stable, well-planned, and carefully designed system—and it works.

Here is a link for the reason the Senate has only 2 from each state.

Senate

 
Uncle CornCob said:
You realize if the "popular " vote decided the election Trump would have won. The GOP have given up the west coast and spend minimal time and money campaigning there. So it's a false narrative .
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If the popular vote decided the election we have no idea who would have won, which kind of points out how silly the electoral college is now.  Under the electoral college republicans in California are more likely to stay home as are democrats in Texas.  Just another reason the electoral college is outdated.  Nowadays with big giant blue/red graphics on their TV screens telling them that their state is already a lock, it's basically a form of inadvertent voter suppression.

 
rojbk said:
Meanwhile, as far back as 1990, Coulter writes, anthropologist Maxine Margolis found “that the Brazilian consulate counted 100,000 Brazilians living in New York City, while the Brazilian foreign office put the number at 230,000. That same year, the 1990 census reported that only 9,200 Brazilians lived in New York City
Click to expand...


Demonstrating the government’s usual brilliance, Coulter’s Adios America notes that the census “tried to account for the reluctance of illegal aliens to answer government surveys by adding 10 percent to their population estimate. Guess where they got 10 percent? From another survey of illegals. In 2001, the University of California asked Mexican-born residents of Los Angeles if they had taken the recent census. Ten percent said ‘no.’ But almost 40 percent refused to take that survey.”
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Even if you take Coulter at her word how does this get to 50 million?

Using the Brazilian stat (no questions asked) gets to ~23 million.

Using the Cal stat gets to ~15 million.

 
Uncle CornCob said:
[scooter] said:
A republic is a democracy; but a democracy is not necessarily a republic.

At any rate, the electoral college was created solely to placate the slave states. The black inhabitants were allowed to count toward the electoral votes, but only at a 3/5ths rate. Today the black inhabitants count at a 5/5ths rate, but since they are still in the minority it gives the white majority even more power than it had before.
Click to expand...
You realize if the "popular " vote decided the election Trump would have won. The GOP have given up the west coast and spend minimal time and money campaigning there. So it's a false narrative .
Click to expand...
False narrative indeed.

 
rojbk said:
Are you cool with mentally ill men going to the same bathroom as our daughters? Some social issues need to be fought on the conservative side and that is one of them
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Not really but, there are a few things that make this not worth fighting over. 1. It is unenforceable, what are you going to do? Have cops outside bathrooms performing ladyboy stop and frisks? 2. The number of trans attacks on minors is extremely small. 3. It is like a gun law, so you make it illegal and the ones who are going to attack children in a bathroom are still going to do so. 

At best it is a symbolic gesture, and one that unnecessarily divides our citizenry. 

 
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GrandpaRox said:
America’s election systems have operated smoothly for more than 200 years because the Electoral College accomplishes its intended purposes. America’s presidential election process preserves federalism, prevents chaos, grants definitive electoral outcomes, and prevents tyrannical or unreasonable rule. The Founding Fathers created a stable, well-planned, and carefully designed system—and it works.

Here is a link for the reason the Senate has only 2 from each state.

Senate
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I've done an unhealthy amount of reading about the electoral college over the last few years.  The bolded comes up a lot, but as best I can tell this comes from a horrible misassertion people make in not understanding the difference between "popular vote" and "true democracy" when referencing the warnings of brilliant historians that warn about the tyranny of a "true democracy".  Popular vote vs. electoral college has absolutely nothing to do with that.

 
rojbk said:
How do I explain to my 8 yr old twins who have an 8 yr old sister that we almost had a President that took money from people that kill gays and give 0 rights to women? (saudi money)
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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-saudi-arabia-911-business-deals-a7038991.html

You could tell them about the President we did elect who does business with the Saudis. There are numerous other deals, too, like selling property here to Saudi investors, that I saw in other articles. Good luck getting them to sleep after that! Maybe you should heat up some milk first. 

I'm going to give Trump a chance--unless he starts touting some of his more divisive campaign rhetoric again--but maybe the over-the-top crowing and attempts at turning the tables could get turned down a little? Have some beers, folks. Smoke a bowl. Whatever floats your boat. Relax a little.

 
Loan Sharks said:
Not really but, there are a few things that make this not worth fighting over. 1. It is unenforceable, what are you going to do? Have cops outside bathrooms performing ladyboy stop and frisks? 2. The number of trans attacks on minors is extremely small. 3. It is like a gun law, so you make it illegal and the ones who are going to attack children in a bathroom are still going to do so. 

At best it is a symbolic gesture, and one that unnecessarily divides our citizenry. 
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Make it illegal for biological men to use the ladies room. How do you enforce it? You see a guy go into the ladies room you call the cops on your cell phone to report it just like any crime.

Our country is going to be divided on this issue no matter which way we go, so we might as well go the way of sanity.

 
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GrandpaRox said:
America’s election systems have operated smoothly for more than 200 years because the Electoral College accomplishes its intended purposes. America’s presidential election process preserves federalism, prevents chaos, grants definitive electoral outcomes, and prevents tyrannical or unreasonable rule. The Founding Fathers created a stable, well-planned, and carefully designed system—and it works.

Here is a link for the reason the Senate has only 2 from each state.

Senate
Click to expand...
No other election processes in this country resemble the electoral college as far as I'm aware, and we seem to do just fine with popular votes.  As for preventing chaos, you are all complaining about the riots going on right now in regards to the EC.  I also find the "prevents tyrannical rule" part to be funny since if you listen to conservative radio for 10 minutes you will hear that Obama is a tyrant.

 
rojbk said:
Make it illegal for biological men to use the ladies room. How do you enforce it? You see a guy go into the ladies room you call the cops on your cell phone to report it just like any crime.

Our country is going to be divided on this issue no matter which way we go, so we might as well go the way of sanity.
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Only since like 6 months ago, which is what I don't get.  

Before it became a partisan issue this year, dudes dressed up like girls had been using the ladies room for 100 years.  I mean think about it, have you ever seen a transgender person in the men's room?  No, because they've always used the ladies room.  So all these people suddenly saying "omg we can't let men in a dress in the ladies room because my wife and daughter are too important to me" I guess didn't care about their wives and daughters until this year, because those men in dresses have been in the ladies room their whole lives and they never said a word.

 
Dickies said:
No other election processes in this country resemble the electoral college as far as I'm aware, and we seem to do just fine with popular votes.  As for preventing chaos, you are all complaining about the riots going on right now in regards to the EC.  I also find the "prevents tyrannical rule" part to be funny since if you listen to conservative radio for 10 minutes you will hear that Obama is a tyrant.
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The "prevents tyrannical rule" stuff is just a misappropriation of terminology leaving people to cite warnings for something completely different as if they were directed towards the idea of a popular vote.  As best I can tell some internet blogger mixed it up and everyone just started quoting the terminology without any explanation.  Electoral college vs. popular vote has absolutely nothing to do with the tyranny of a majority, which is what they're referencing.  Some dumb blogger cited the actual real issue of tyranny of a majority in reference to "pure democracy" and was too dumb to realize that "pure democracy" has absolutely nothing to do with "popular vote".

 
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FreeBaGeL said:
Only since like 6 months ago, which is what I don't get.  

Before it became a partisan issue this year, dudes dressed up like girls had been using the ladies room for 100 years.  I mean think about it, have you ever seen a transgender person in the men's room?  No, because they've always used the ladies room.  So all these people suddenly saying "omg we can't let men in a dress in the ladies room because my wife and daughter are too important to me" I guess didn't care about their wives and daughters until this year, because those men in dresses have been in the ladies room their whole lives and they never said a word.
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Why do we even separate the genders in bathrooms?  It's not like there are naked people just hanging out.  Just ban dudes from pissing in the stalls and the problem is solved. 

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
This is interesting in the abstract but in this thread... Is this about Trump getting elected?

Because the EC is not the problem here.
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I have been researching and condemning the electoral college for years.  There is a thread here on FBG from 2012 where I was doing the same.

It only has to do with Trump getting elected in the sense that it got people to bring the subject up again for me to respond to, but I have been chastising it at every mention of it for at least the last 5 years, since I actually started looking in to why we still use it.

 
FreeBaGeL said:
I have been researching and condemning the electoral college for years.  There is a thread here on FBG from 2012 where I was doing the same.

It only has to do with Trump getting elected in the sense that it got people to bring the subject up again for me to respond to, but I have been chastising it at every mention of it for at least the last 5 years, since I actually started looking in to why we still use it.
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I mean it's interesting to me too, but Trump is going to be president because 1. the Dems picked a bad candidate and 2. they have been getting swept out across the country state and federal since 2010.

 
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rojbk said:
Loan Sharks said:
Not really but, there are a few things that make this not worth fighting over. 1. It is unenforceable, what are you going to do? Have cops outside bathrooms performing ladyboy stop and frisks? 2. The number of trans attacks on minors is extremely small. 3. It is like a gun law, so you make it illegal and the ones who are going to attack children in a bathroom are still going to do so. 

At best it is a symbolic gesture, and one that unnecessarily divides our citizenry. 
Click to expand...
Make it illegal for biological men to use the ladies room. How do you enforce it? You see a guy go into the ladies room you call the cops on your cell phone to report it just like any crime.
Click to expand...
How can you know if the person dressed as a woman is a biological male?

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
I mean it's interesting to me too, but Trump is going to be president because 1. the dems picked a bad candidate and 2. they have been getting swept out across the country since 2010.
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Yeah fair enough and I wasn't saying otherwise.  As I said above the assertion that Hillary would have won the popular vote is false anyway.

That doesn't mean that I won't take the opportunity to talk about the EC when it comes up.

 
[scooter] said:
How can you know if the person dressed as a woman is a biological male?
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The very act of making it illegal would reduce the number of men going into the ladies room. Sure, some will break the law and some will get away with it, but name a law that exist people can't break without getting caught?

 
rojbk said:
Loan Sharks said:
Not really but, there are a few things that make this not worth fighting over. 1. It is unenforceable, what are you going to do? Have cops outside bathrooms performing ladyboy stop and frisks? 2. The number of trans attacks on minors is extremely small. 3. It is like a gun law, so you make it illegal and the ones who are going to attack children in a bathroom are still going to do so. 

At best it is a symbolic gesture, and one that unnecessarily divides our citizenry. 
Click to expand...
Make it illegal for biological men to use the ladies room. How do you enforce it? You see a guy go into the ladies room you call the cops on your cell phone to report it just like any crime.

Our country is going to be divided on this issue no matter which way we go, so we might as well go the way of sanity.
Click to expand...
Transgenders have been using the bathroom they identify with for years, and you more than likely have shared a bathroom with one. 

 
Dickies said:
Why do we even separate the genders in bathrooms?  It's not like there are naked people just hanging out.  Just ban dudes from pissing in the stalls and the problem is solved. 
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Apparently transgenders are going to walk around dangling in bathrooms.

And "mentally ill" who would attack your daughter in bathrooms were just waiting to be allowed to do so while wearing a dress.

 
rojbk said:
[scooter] said:
How can you know if the person dressed as a woman is a biological male?
Click to expand...
The very act of making it illegal would reduce the number of men going into the ladies room. Sure, some will break the law and some will get away with it, but name a law that exist people can't break without getting caught?
Click to expand...
All your master plan will do is cause biological males (dressed as women) to expose themselves to little boys, and biological females (some with actual penises) to expose themselves to little girls. That's genius.

 
[scooter] said:
All your master plan will do is cause biological males (dressed as women) to expose themselves to little boys, and biological females (some with actual penises) to expose themselves to little girls. That's genius.
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:lmao: "actual penises"

I am fine with that because it is more likely a man pretending to be a girl would have the uncontrollable urge to sexually harm a girl than a boy.

Also important a sane female can fight off an insane female a lot easier than an insane male.

 
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Dickies said:
I love America, which is why I would like to improve some of the idiotic things that we do.  The electoral college is rooted in slavery and in modern society serves no purpose.  It's the system we have, and I have no desire to argue the outcome of the election.
Click to expand...
I love the slavery meme going around.  That's right liberals. Double down on your race obsession.  

 
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