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Official Donald Trump for President thread (3 Viewers)
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adonis
Footballguy
And all of this doubt goes back to Trump. If he lost the general election, he would've said it was rigged. When he lost the popular vote, he made baseless claims about millions of illegal immigrants voting in California and that he really won. There's a CIA report that says the Russians worked to put him in the presidency, and he denies that the CIA knows what they're talking about.
The man sends out self-serving, self-interested denials of reality, and his supporters (some of them at least) eat it up like it's truth. In order to believe him, they have to invalidate generally respected sources of news - the media, the CIA, and ANY other "authority" that disagrees with Trump.
This mindset is the very mindset that allows dictators and authoritarians to rise to power. Blindly believing the word of a PROVEN liar and manipulator, over more respected sources of information is a path that can only lead to being manipulated and party to bad things.
The man sends out self-serving, self-interested denials of reality, and his supporters (some of them at least) eat it up like it's truth. In order to believe him, they have to invalidate generally respected sources of news - the media, the CIA, and ANY other "authority" that disagrees with Trump.
This mindset is the very mindset that allows dictators and authoritarians to rise to power. Blindly believing the word of a PROVEN liar and manipulator, over more respected sources of information is a path that can only lead to being manipulated and party to bad things.
jonessed
Footballguy
It was more than one
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/57027
I believe that if the head of the DNC was willing to use her position with CNN to cheat a debate in Hillary's favor then that likely wasn't the only thing she was doing to help Hillary.
moleculo
Footballguy
adonis
Footballguy
And because the Russians, we presume, made a calculated effort to not release RNC hacked emails or other sensitive information, we'll never know how corrupt that side was.
But that doesn't matter to you guys. Only focus on the dirt a foreign power released during our election. Eat up the slop they poured out for you to gorge yourselves on, and don't ask "I wonder why only one side in this campaign suffered from major hacking/leaks"...and certainly don't listen to almost every major intelligence agency that has commented or investigated this situation.
Instead line up behind a serial liar, someone who respects Putin and who clearly has strong business ties to Russia, who has every personal interest in invalidating these stories (whether true or not), and believe him blindly while turning your back on the rest of the folks who have consistently had a better track record (not perfect) than Trump.
It makes no sense.
jonessed
Footballguy
No, it isn't. They tried to hack the RNC as well. The RNC just had better security.
They ran with what they had and that hurt Hillary. That doesn't mean they always planned on just impacting the election by hurting Hillary.
We don't know what their original intentions were. Not yet anyway.
Dr Oadi
Footballguy
jonessed
Footballguy
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adonis
Footballguy
Those darn Russian hackers were prevented from getting RNC information by a spam filter. BLAST! All of their tools were rendered useless! They clearly had no other means to access RNC information they so desperately longed for.
The irony here also, is that the news media reported that this took place...that Russian hackers tried to get into the RNC servers but were turned off by some filtering/spam settings. OK, that part of the news is accurate...we won't question this part of the news, but anything critical of Trump or contrary to his messaging is clearly a lie fabricated by the lying mainstream liberal media.
Got it.
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Statorama
Footballguy
Kudos to both Obama and Trump on getting people who don't usually vote to get out and vote.
Granted, both of those idiots were narcissistic ignoramouses that shouldn't have been allowed in the WH on a tour much less the big chair. But getting more people involved in the process is a good start toward electing someone worthy of the job.
Granted, both of those idiots were narcissistic ignoramouses that shouldn't have been allowed in the WH on a tour much less the big chair. But getting more people involved in the process is a good start toward electing someone worthy of the job.
Dr Oadi
Footballguy
What anti-Trumpers are going through is the denial stage.
The wall will happen.
jonessed
Footballguy
Podesta got nailed by a phishing email he actually spotted, but was later told was OK by Hillary's IT people. That's pretty ####### stupid.
All it takes is one idiot.
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adonis
Footballguy
Good to see an original pioneer in the spreading of fake news to smear a political opponent is still around
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
I have no doubt that both Wasserman Shultz and Brazile were doing things to help Clinton. It's annoying, but it's not a huge scandal- after all its a party primary, party leadership always has its preference and that presumably always plays a role in decisions about the race. Preibus basically worked as a Trump consultant once he became the front-runner.
I also have no doubt that Clinton would have won without such efforts. She beat Sanders by a significant margin.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
This is the kind of high road thinking that got Trump elected. "If we do the right thing, so will they."
Once the Republicans refused to consider nominees for the Supreme Court, you knew that all veneer of "country first" was gone. Now it's time for the Dems to fight fire with fire. Obstruct, obfuscate, lie, make things up, undermine, and attack for two straight years. Prosecute, file lawsuits, anything and everything is on the table now the the coup of the Supreme court happened.
The Democrats were playing checkers while the Republicans were rigging the gym with explosives. The supreme court thing was the most disgusting thing I've seen so far in my life. Just downright gross. Once the right wing was able to spin that into anything other than the usurping of the Supreme court, I knew this country was done.
Boston
Footballguy
Between lost emails, severs in a closet and getting hacked it's been a rough year for the dems on the IT front...surprised by this with how much education there is in their party...
David Dodds
Administrator
I guess I'm stupid because I don't really get the Russia / Putin hate.
In one corner we had a candidate who KNOWS Saudi Arabia and QATAR funded 9/11 and continues to fund ISIS and she was more than happy to take their $6M+, sell them massive arms, etc.
But RUSSIA. Sorry, no other bad guys in the world are as bad as the line above.
Make no mistake. I am not here to defend Russia, China, and other Nationalistic parties. They do things that benefit their countries only. But I prefer a president who is not ratcheting up tensions against these super-powers.
This requires a leap of faith, but hear me out.
- Our intelligence has stated that 5 states accessed HRCs servers. We know this server included 7 SAPs so it's likely they understand the nation's darkest secrets / plans of instability, and the worst of our past indiscretions of de-stabilizing governments, rigging other countries elections, etc.
- Had Hillary taken power, this info likely would be used to "blackmail" the US or would have resulted in absolute conflict between the Super Powers.
- Trump is new. He had nothing to do with said warplans, de-stabilization of the Middle East, or our past indiscretions. None of us have a clue what he will do, including Russia. Fear of the unknown is scary, but the alternative (blackmail/war) was likely worse.
In one corner we had a candidate who KNOWS Saudi Arabia and QATAR funded 9/11 and continues to fund ISIS and she was more than happy to take their $6M+, sell them massive arms, etc.
But RUSSIA. Sorry, no other bad guys in the world are as bad as the line above.
Make no mistake. I am not here to defend Russia, China, and other Nationalistic parties. They do things that benefit their countries only. But I prefer a president who is not ratcheting up tensions against these super-powers.
This requires a leap of faith, but hear me out.
- Our intelligence has stated that 5 states accessed HRCs servers. We know this server included 7 SAPs so it's likely they understand the nation's darkest secrets / plans of instability, and the worst of our past indiscretions of de-stabilizing governments, rigging other countries elections, etc.
- Had Hillary taken power, this info likely would be used to "blackmail" the US or would have resulted in absolute conflict between the Super Powers.
- Trump is new. He had nothing to do with said warplans, de-stabilization of the Middle East, or our past indiscretions. None of us have a clue what he will do, including Russia. Fear of the unknown is scary, but the alternative (blackmail/war) was likely worse.
I think this is basically correct, despite my drastically higher preference for the Bern
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
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adonis
Footballguy
Trump won, but with such serious influence from an outside power, it begs to be investigated. Hell, we had HILLARY CLINTON on trial by RNC folks for months/years for email stuff that had LESS consequence than possible foreign manipulation of our presidential election. There were how many investigations? How many times did Trump say the word "email"? On less nefarious evidence than we have now, he said we should lock Hillary up and send her to jail.
Trump, and many of his
Imagine a scenario where Clinton won, and ANY of the above accusations (all backed by reputable sources) were being thrown around regarding her. Every conservative person would be calling for a full scale investigation.
The reasonable view here is that there is a TON of smoke around Russia and Trump and things look suspicious, but there are no smoking guns found yet, or evidence Trump was in collusion with the Russians. BUT, without an investigation, how will we know for sure? We have investigated far less serious matters far more seriously than conservatives are suggesting we look into this one.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
adonis
Footballguy
There are very few scenarios where emails Hillary sent would be used to blackmail her.
However, there are very realistic scenarios where Trumps business interests in the US and around the world can be used to influence his decisions. Yet you seem focused largely on one of those and not the other. Why is that?
Northern Voice
Footballguy
Has he released his taxes yet?
Statorama
Footballguy
That's why the Trump team keeps trying to get the word out. There's a false narrative that Hil was this uber competent scandal free candidate, so much so that the EC should follow that false narrative and vote for her instead of Trump.
The overall media goal is to reinforce that the Trump Presidency is illegitimate, both internally (fight against any of his proposals no matter what) and externally (make sure you don't cooperate with this guy because "the real" President will be along shortly)
Northern Voice
Footballguy
David Dodds
Administrator
I don't think it was a given HRC was going to beat Sanders. Some suggest both NY and CA were stolen from Bernie. Among my CA friends, people I know voted Bernie about 15 to 1 over HRC. A recount in those states might have shown similar things to what transpired in Detroit. Additionally, the night before Super-Tuesday, the AP (and all of the HRC aligned media that were exposed through WikiLeaks) ran with the story that HRC has won. Talk about interference with an election. Announcing this the night before Super-Tuesday and the only way HRC would have enough votes is if the Super Delegates vote the way they stated in the phone call (Super Delegates flipped for Obama once he was shown to be the superior candidate).
HRC sucks at debates (learned from the loss to Obama) so let's have hardly any of those. When she will debate, let's make sure she gets fed the questions so she passes as a good candidate. Let's have all of our pro-HRC stories queued up. Let's plant media stories attacking Bernie's faith and other "progressive policies". Had this election been run fairly and Super Delegates chimed in at the end, Bernie Sanders would be the President of the United States.
HRC could have had 10% of the vote and the DNC was going to choose her. That was why DWS was placed in that position (and Kaine promised the VP role to a HRC win). The WikiLeaks show that email exchange.
HRC sucks at debates (learned from the loss to Obama) so let's have hardly any of those. When she will debate, let's make sure she gets fed the questions so she passes as a good candidate. Let's have all of our pro-HRC stories queued up. Let's plant media stories attacking Bernie's faith and other "progressive policies". Had this election been run fairly and Super Delegates chimed in at the end, Bernie Sanders would be the President of the United States.
HRC could have had 10% of the vote and the DNC was going to choose her. That was why DWS was placed in that position (and Kaine promised the VP role to a HRC win). The WikiLeaks show that email exchange.
David Dodds
Administrator
I agree that the Senate and House should investigate Russia's role after Trump gets inaugurated. Didn't the Republican's agree that should be done? It took two years to quasi-investigate HRCs servers. Hopefully this can be wrapped up in 1/2 that time.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
95% of anti-Trumpers have conceded that Hillary sucked and deserved to lose, while 95% of Trumpsters here just keep bringing Hillary up and don't seem to care that Russia purposefully attacked and compromised our political infrastructure. Party before country.
adonis
Footballguy
What world are you living in? The Republicans for years have been trying to tie scandal after scandal to Hillary:
- Benghazi - nothing came out of tons of hearings
- Email scandals - nothing came out of tons of hearings, investigations, and a lot of talk about criminality...no charges, period.
- Clinton Foundation - what a #######' joke that was. Nothing to see there, however the Trump foundation was legitimately doing bad things.
All of those three things were HUGE in the media for a long time...the distrust level of both presidential candidates was at record highs. This concept that the media was in the tank for Hillary, and didn't ask certain questions is utter and complete bull#### easily disproven by doing searches through what media covered during the election.
There is no overall media goal. There are legitimate questions about whether Russia tilted the balance of this election in Trumps favor, and whether Trump or his team was involved in ANY type of coordination with the Russians.
You, who in the Obama administration, took a tiny, microscopic scrap of meat and ran with it like it was a 10lb porterhouse can't seriously sit here and say there isn't enough to be curious about and say it justifies an investigation - at least with any sense of intellectual honesty you couldn't.
And lest we forget, this is the guy (Trump) who ran for YEARS on a wild conspiracy theory, championing the idea that Barack Obama's birth certificate was faked. This guy got so much play out of this, which turned out to be completely baseless, false, shameful - and now something incredibly serious comes along, implications of a foreign government undermining our free elections, and his entire supporter base nearly says "NOTHING TO SEE HERE".
It's shameful.
Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
Who cares is the point? The wall is a shiny object, a distraction, just like lock her up and CNN sucks. What's important about those things? But those were the chants. I mean, literally, they were chanting, which should be a red flag in and of itself.
As I said, the issues that seemed to motivate the Trump supporters (who can't seem to muster one criticism of the guy, which is also a red flag) are either non-issues or seriously low priority. Her actual freaking emails were a bigger story than any policy during the campaign. Common theme: Can't seem to focus on what's important. Even in this thread, things not looking good for the transition, cue 20 anti-Hillary or election based posts saying how Trump won and she's terrible, etc. It's odd, we're not supposed to want the strongman type leader, this is America.
adonis
Footballguy
An investigation should take place immediately to determine whether there was any collusion between the Trump campaign (with factual linkages between Trump, campaign staff and Russia) and the Russian government.
If there was collusion, this is information we need to know now and there is more smoke around this single issue, of a significantly more serious nature, than any of the other "scandals" that republicans frothed at the mouth to investigate but ended up coming up empty: Benghazi and clinton's emails to name a couple.
David Dodds
Administrator
HRC leaked them and said he paid no taxes in a debate. Trump acknowledged that he was under an audit and of course he did not pay anything. The media ran that story everywhere. It hurt Trump for awhile, but in the end people had to choose between HRC or Trump and decided not to vote for the candidate in bed with the people financing 9/11 and ISIS. Oh and those spirit dinners. Had only that surfaced months earlier instead of right before people were to vote...
What the Russians do? Change my vote? Oh wait I voted for Trump. This is so ridiculous. On top of that, if they hacked in then we have total losers overseeing the process and the whole setup needs scrapped.
The only thing that reeks is the establishments attempts to stop the people that want to put an end to their power.
The Clinton clan, the Bush clan, neither has any power now.
The only thing that reeks is the establishments attempts to stop the people that want to put an end to their power.
The Clinton clan, the Bush clan, neither has any power now.
Northern Voice
Footballguy
The General
Footballguy
Love Trumpkins being pro-Russia, see no problem with foreign influence with our elections, etc.
At least go with the "it's made up or not real" like your comrade Putin is saying.
At least go with the "it's made up or not real" like your comrade Putin is saying.
David Dodds
Administrator
Publicity is publicity. Good or bad. He ran circles around the old media by being outrageous. How does one separate from the 17 people in the GOP that are likely more qualified than you? You get a LOT of Twitter followers. Trump mastered the technique and showed old media to be a dinosaur incapable of moving the needle for their candidate when it really mattered.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
I had a girlfriend in college that was Russian/Jewish. That was a fun ride for 3 months. Remember she had an assignment in some creative writing BS that she was taking where she had to write about her personal vices. We got a lot of mileage out of trying to figure out all of her vices.
Funny thing - not a vodka lover. Eh, don't know why this thread make me think of her. But it did. Thanks Obama.
Funny thing - not a vodka lover. Eh, don't know why this thread make me think of her. But it did. Thanks Obama.
Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
I have no problem with this, at all. It's the "therefore, Trump" part that I'd like to be careful about. Trump needs to be held accountable every day, and if we stay on top of it and the day-to-day men and women who serve the country have his back (he's a buffoon, he needs help), then we should be ok. But I don't trust him as far as I can throw him, and you guys who seem to think he can do no wrong, what's the harm in taking a more pragmatic approach? Like, are you really such a fan boy for another man? Odd.
moleculo
Footballguy
Was a Trump Server Communicating With Russia?
not sure how you feel about Slate magazine, but the article appears to be well researched and cited, and it was dated prior to the election (i.e. this is not fake news made up to discredit a Trump presidency. IIRC, this article was actially discussed in this thread).
adonis
Footballguy
A clear example of this was when the birther issue came up directly to Trump, and he was called on his shameful activity for furthering that cause.
Who did he blame for that whole thing? Hillary. Seriously. He blamed Hillary Clinton for the years he spent promoting that Obama's birth certificate was a fake. Oh, and what's more? He pretends that HE was the one that settled it. Clinton started it, he ended it - says Trump. And people believe him.
Folks who hold their nose and vote for him because, well, Supreme Court, but think the guy is atrocious - i can sorta get those people. ####ty position to be in, but it's what they have, they'd say.
But others, who BELIEVE what he says, his clearly false comments, and apologize for them...just unbelievable.
The arguments going on when Obama was taking office, and the campaign, were around common sets of data, and different spin put on the data or programs. What would they do, how would they do it, would they be effective. A lot of people bought into the Obama side of the argument, but those were largely based on interpretation of facts along with spin.
Trump supporters have become so far detached from discourse centered around data and facts that they're free-floating out there in space, orbiting a giant Ego with its own gravitational pull which is Trump, so much so that they lose all relative basis for factual information and have to rely on the Trump Ego to tell them what is up and what is down. They have to disavow all conventional methods of determining the orientation of truth (media is biased!) and they ingest a steady diet of Trumpian propaganda - all while standing on their heads, insisting that Up is down and Down is up.
Loan Sharks
Not a Wolf
Sure.
1. Complete ban on Muslim immigration - (has walked it back)
2. Allowing the conservatives to push him further right on abortion issues.
3. His hardline about amnesty. - (walked back at this point)
My point is that the things that I don't like about Trump are actual policy or substantive issues. I think that one of the things you may be miss identifying as a "cult" feature is that most Trump supporters do not care about what they consider nonsense and noise. At the end of the day Trump tweeting that he likes taco bowls and Vanity fair sucks means nothing. No matter what outrageous tweet Trump puts out, it is not a policy, platform or actionable item you think it is crazy that people don't denounce every irrelevant thing the guy throws out there.
David Dodds
Administrator
I am confused. Wasn't Romney saying Russia is bad and Obama saying the exact opposite of that a few years back?
David Dodds
Administrator
The General
Footballguy
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