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****OFFICIAL DYNASTY TRADES**** (17 Viewers)
- Thread starter Gottabesweet
- Start date
Jonesin For Some Football
Footballguy
12 team, .5 PPR, 1 QB, 1 RB, 2 WR, 2 Flex league. This just went down in one of my leagues:
Alvin Kamara
for
1.11
1.12
23 1st (most likely 7-10 with Kamara on his roster)
Michael Gallup
Alvin Kamara
for
1.11
1.12
23 1st (most likely 7-10 with Kamara on his roster)
Michael Gallup
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Jonesin For Some Football
Footballguy
I like Pittman a lot but Mariota seems like he has little value. I'd take Monty here all day personally.
dipandglide
Footballguy
Give me the picks.
You want to win. But part of winning is riding your players and cashing out before they lose most of their value. Kamara is a season away from being worth 30% of this. Cash in one of those late 1st's for Zeke, Jacobs, or someone else on that ballpark.
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Seems fair. 3x 1sts & Gallup for present day Kamara is a nice cash-out. Especially since he’s likely to be suspended this year & the saints offense is likely to be not especially great.
ETA: I would be selling AK for this all day, in case that was unclear.
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Team A
2023 5th Round Draft Pick
Traded 2023 4th Round Draft Pick
Traded 2023 3rd Round Draft Pick
Traded 2022 Draft Pick 1.08
Team B
Miles Sanders, Hunter Renfrow
2023 5th Round Draft Pick
Traded 2023 4th Round Draft Pick
Traded 2023 3rd Round Draft Pick
Traded 2022 Draft Pick 1.08
Team B
Miles Sanders, Hunter Renfrow
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Why? Sanders isn't worth the 1.08 and Renfroe's value will not be nearly as good as it was last year with Adams on board?
I got Sanders just a hair below 1.8 myself and when 1.8 is OTC might prefer Sanders just prefer fluidity of the pick at this time. I don't view his problem as being a reliable fantasy RB as him so much as his situation and a few knicks. I fail to see an area he's not performed well and shown big time 3 down skills. Just some injuries and a RBBC with a running QB are not ideal. I firmly believe next 3-4 years of his career will be the best we've seen of him and this will be his last year in Philly.
If Renfrow was as good as he was last year he'd be worth more then the 1.8 on his own so a little drop off is more then built into the price and I'm not sure the drop off is going to be much at all. I mean 7.5 targets a game is not a world beating amount to approach especially with a coach who has oversaw some of the best fantasy slot performances of our era.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Classic case of where you cannot base 2022 value on 2021 stats. Too much has changed since then. I personally don't feel Renfrow will have much value in 2022. Hell, I couldn't trade him and the 1.07 for the 1.06. Shot down immediately. I tried to sell Renfrow after the Adams trade and cannot, so I'll just hold for now.
Edited to say I also don't see Miles Sanders' value in the first round. If I gave up any 1st round pick for Sanders I would need a shower.
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Past year is a guide but I like to think I'm a little more advanced at this game then sitting around like a doofus drafting off last years stats.
If you had posted you traded 1.7 and Renfrow for 1.6 the responses would have told you what a horrendous trade you did.
Renfrow is the secondary part of this trade, don't get it twisted. But I think he's someone worth a mid second to say he's off no value is just trying to argue for the sake of arguing.
I turned down a late one for him a few weeks ago so that's me and the guy making that offer who feel differently then you. I fail to see any part of his play that has been a disappointment other then some injuries and I don't get to caught up on that stuff when looking ahead. Comparatively speaking to a RB I'd rate him considerably higher then any RB I could likely draft in late round one and probably at 1.8 and that's after adjusting for his age.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I can see that reasoning. I still like the picks side, but I’d still be on the picks side. Probably because I’m in the middle of a rebuild so psychologically I probably put more emphasis on picks. But I don’t argue with your reasoning here. For a competitive team it’s a nice deal. I do agree with @JohnnyU that Renfrow’s value take a little hit with more mouths to feed.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Me trying to trade the 1.7 and Renfrow for the 1.6 failed, so I think you're off saying it would have been a horrendous trade for me had I made it. Proof is in the pudding, you can't give Renfrow away right now, so your view on him being a mid-2nd value is skewed from a fantasy value perspective IMO. By the way, how is trading the 1.7 and Renfrow (mid-2nd value in your mind) for the 1.6 a horrendous trade?
This getting tiring.
If you want to say no one giving you 6 for Renfrow and a 7 is proof of his value then the same theory would hold for Sanders being worth a first and you value of him is skewed from a fantasy perspective. So what's the point of arguing in that manner? You asked for my opinion and why? Just to make a Sunday argument all day? Move on please.
And yes I'd consider it a horrendous trade to move from 7 to 6 when I don't have a player in mind or see the draft as a top tier of 6.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Oh, but I do have a tier and it ends at 6. So giving up a player like Renfrow, who currently has 3rd round rookie value in dynasty, to move into that tier is a no brainer. You won't find any savvy dynasty players giving you a mid-2nd for Hunter Renfrow.
Jonesin For Some Football
Footballguy
Actually ended up with Mooney instead of Gallup but I like him better. I wasn't shopping Kamara as 2 time returning champ but couldnt' turn it down.
Jonesin For Some Football
Footballguy
I personally prefer the shot at something great so I wouldn't trade most any 1sts for Sanders unless it was on the clock.
Jonesin For Some Football
Footballguy
12 team, .5 PPR, 1 QB, 1 RB, 2 WR, 2 Flex league. Just made another move:
Tyreek Hill
D'Ernest Johnson
1.12
3.12
for
Mike Evans
1.01
Tyreek Hill
D'Ernest Johnson
1.12
3.12
for
Mike Evans
1.01
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Jonesin For Some Football
Footballguy
If you believe that then there is nothing wrong with that move. That is the beauty of fantasy football...we all have different opinions. I loved Sanders before last year. Just not sure he is that guy with Hurts under center and that coaching staff. The talent is there though.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
It's not ideal but he got banged up last year literally in the game the Eagles went run heavy and his usage to end the season was quite strong.
The other issue is he's in the last year of his deal and I see him as a 26 year old FA who won't have a lot of wear and tear who I believe due in large part to his big play ability will see a good market to make him a RB1.
None of this is guaranteed to go down of course, neither of course is odds of hitting on a late one in this draft but for pure upside hunting I still think he has the skill set to do it.
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I tried to trade Tyreek for 1.1 I think one day before he got traded and got rejected. So this is a good haul from where I sit to get this now.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
Guess I should be buying more Renfrow if he is only worth a 3rd now. That seems like a wild overcorrection to the Adams trade. Ni doubt Renfrow takes a hit. But McDaniels and slot WRs leaves a lot to like. Depending on needs I would easily pay a mid 2nd.
Looking closer I see he made it thru cuts in 100% of my FFPC leagues. If I offered either a random 2nd or a mid current 2nd, I suppose I would probably get him. I only have a couple spots where I really need help at WR.
Looking closer I see he made it thru cuts in 100% of my FFPC leagues. If I offered either a random 2nd or a mid current 2nd, I suppose I would probably get him. I only have a couple spots where I really need help at WR.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I tell you what I will do. In the only league I have Renfrow (PPR, start 1qb league) I'm going to post a message offering Renfrow for a 2nd round pick. I'll let you know if anyone bites.
I can think of a few teams of mine I'd pay that for him. I only own Renfrow on one team, I would not trade him for a mid second I know that much on that team
Hindery's got his value on par with pick 1.9 in his trade value chart which just updated last week.
Since they got Adams what little ADP date I've seen in FFPC leagues I mainly play shows him in range of a late one/very early second.
Guess none of us are savvy.
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JohnnyU
Footballguy
I just offered him up for any 2023 2nd in a PPR start 1qb league. I'm not expecting anyone to do that, but if they do, lucky me.
Hopefully it will get you want and that's one of the great benefits of this thread as it opens up your eyes to seeing valuation put on some players you never thought was the case.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
bostonfred
Footballguy
If there were a 25 year old rookie running back entering a season with a bad situation, but I really believed in the talent, I still wouldn't feel good using 1.8 on him even though he might get a shot some day. He's has never had 900 rushing yards in a season, in part because on injuries.
Next year he'll be a 26 year old veteran rb hitting the market, who might get a shot at a starting job but hasn't really had a chance at a feature role. You might get a couple years out of him if he becomes a starter which isn't known.
James Conner has been much more productive including a top 5 finish last year, has similar injury history, and appears to be in an ideal situation, but not many people are advocating giving up first round picks for him despite his situation apparently improving with his contract and Edmunds leaving.
I'm just struggling to see the Sanders love at this point. Sure, it's possible he ends up panning out, but if you were to buy him at 1.8 you'd be paying around what he would reasonably cost even if he ended up getting the best news imaginable a la Conner.
One of the most overrated players in fantasy from day one, imo. But i get that other people feel differently.
He won't have a lot of wear and tear at 26 and I'm usually anti-old RB but I think that matters and I'm prognosticating he won't have physical dropoff at least until conclusion of his age 27 seasons.
I would disagree he's not had a chance at a feature role he's just not been able to stay on the field.
I can't argue the negative of his injury situation so far. It's real. But I'm not at a point of thinking he's "injury prone" vs just the way it goes but it's easily been his major issue so far.
That's mainly because he scored a boatload of TD's. I don't view their talent level as very close, almost opposites really, and certainly think Sanders has a lot more upside and can easily exceed Conner's value now so I don't see that as his best case. Could end up a good amount worse as well but it's not the upside to me.
I don't anticipate loving the 1.8. Will be ok, some good options, but I doubt it's going to feel like love and again I already said I'd not give 1.8 for him now, but it's close.
bostonfred
Footballguy
Renfrow on the other hand is definitely worth a second and maybe even more in ppr.
103 catches for nearly 1100 yards and 9 touchdowns has some flukiness to it and feels difficult to repeat, but it's not like he got 150 plus targets. He had 128, which isn't crazy in a 17 game season. It's easily possible for him to get 100 plus again along with Adams and waller getting theirs. Carr averaged 547 targets/16 games before putting up 626 in 17 last year so there's plenty of room for their top 3 guys to get 400 combined targets and still have Jacobs and the backs and other receivers all get some of their own.
His upside is capped, which is why i wouldn't pay as much for him as i would for other 25 year old receivers coming off a year like that, but he's got a good chance of being a younger version of Edelman in McDaniels offense.
103 catches for nearly 1100 yards and 9 touchdowns has some flukiness to it and feels difficult to repeat, but it's not like he got 150 plus targets. He had 128, which isn't crazy in a 17 game season. It's easily possible for him to get 100 plus again along with Adams and waller getting theirs. Carr averaged 547 targets/16 games before putting up 626 in 17 last year so there's plenty of room for their top 3 guys to get 400 combined targets and still have Jacobs and the backs and other receivers all get some of their own.
His upside is capped, which is why i wouldn't pay as much for him as i would for other 25 year old receivers coming off a year like that, but he's got a good chance of being a younger version of Edelman in McDaniels offense.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Let's not kid ourselves. Adams is going to get a huge target share of that offense and you also have Waller. What Renfrow got last year cannot be taken into serious considerations for 2022 because of Adams. He's the best WR in the league and he will be their #1 option by a large margin. You mentioned Edelman, well, he was their #1 option during his heyday, but it's not the same situation with the Raiders as it was with the Patriots. Just because McDaniels used Edelman a lot in NE doesn't mean he will use Renfrow a lot now.
bostonfred
Footballguy
I get what you're saying but you seem to have addressed everything i said except the facts. Renfrow had 128 targets last year. Forget where he ranks on the depth chart, it's very possible for him to get close to 128 again this year. That's only 1/6 of the 626 attempts carr had.
The better argument against renfrow isn't that he went get the targets, but that the pace per target is unsustainable. He caught 5/6 of his targets. That's got the potential to come down. But he averaged fewer than 11 yards per catch, and one touchdown per 12 receptions isn't outlandish by any means. I think this is one you should reconsider.
bostonfred
Footballguy
Conner had 37 catches and 1127 total yards in 15 games last year, so even if you take away all 18 of his touchdowns he outscored Sanders (26 catches, 912 total yards, 0 touchdowns in 12 games) on a per game basis in every scoring format.
Conner's first year was better than Sanders first year. He's averaged more per year even forgetting touchdowns while facing similar injury concerns.
Conner just got paid 3 years, 21 million while theylet Edmunds walk. We don't know if Sanders will get anything close to that but it would be pretty shocking to see him come close.
I get that your eyeball test says Sanders is better but people said the same thing about Tevin Coleman.
I don't think it's impossible for Sanders to have a breakout, i just disagree with any valuation of him that assumes he will have one. It's understandable to be high on your own players and to not want to give up on them but it's not a good price to pay.
(I have zero stake in renfrow or Sanders and one share of Conner across all leagues fwiw).
I was really not arguing Sanders performance last year to Conner.
That being said it's not comparable on a per game basis because that fails to take into account Sanders playing several games where he left early or was not very healthy entering the games or the bump Conner got when Edmonds went down. But if you remove TD's and dial it down to a per snap and per touch basis Sanders beat Conner in both.
But all besides the point. Only thing similar in the two is both will be similar age hitting UFA. Stylistically they could not be more opposite and I don't understand the comp again other then were both similar aged at FA. You mentioned Conner just got $21m for 3 year but he did so after playing for $1.75M last year. He could not even a contract with some performance bonus like ROJO got. That's how the league felt about Conner heading into his initial FA and a team with a history of overpaying vets giving him a good contract does not change a lot for me but he is in a solid fantasy situation.
More the extra almost full YPC.
Sanders out gained him 818 to 145 in yards rushing, averaged 4.6 to 4.5 YPC which is almost silly to even say considering how few carries Connor just saying that because you said otherwise. And since Conner failed to catch a pass so I just don't see were on earth Conner's first year was better then Sanders?
I sure did not set out today to argue all day the merits of Sanders.Make one comment on a trade....
barackdhouse
Footballguy
Offered a 2nd for Renfrow and was told he was available but that my offer wasn't particularly close. My 2nd is projected early.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Then I should get some offers of a 2023 2nd if he turned down an early 2 nd if your offer was any indication. I still think I won’t get an offer, but your offer is encouraging…. If true. I would have jumped on that early 2nd.
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bostonfred
Footballguy
First year starting obviously. You obviously looked up conner's rookie numbers so there's no need to be pedantic. Conner played behind peak Leveon Bell as a rookie.
215/973/12 4.5 ypc 55 rec 497 yds 1 rec td 1470 total yds 13 total touchdown
Vs
179/818/3 4.6 ypc 50 rec 509 yds 3 rec td 1327 total yards 6 total touchdowns
Conner was more productive then and he's more productive now, has had similar injury history, and pretty much represents the best case for guys like Sanders. Tevin Coleman is the less good case. Either is possible for Sanders at this point, I'm not going to argue with you whether Sanders can be even better than what I'm calling the best case because it's a hair splitting argument. Conner was literally a top 5 back last year and that would be an amazing accomplishment for Conner this year. Yet conner's barely worth now what you think Sanders is worth today, not knowing whether he'll ever get that kind of opportunity. That *should* make you reconsider your valuation, but it sounds like it doesn't. To me that's an objective mistake and those are exploitable mistakes in dynasty.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
It’s fair. I’m not sure I make this deal if I’m the Evans/1.01 side, but it seems fair.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I may be shortsighted, but I have soured on the possibility of Sanders being great. They seem to enjoy our RBBC, Sanders has a propensity for injury. I do agree that the upside is there with him, but the usage has not quite been there yet. Maybe worth the gamble at the right price.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I would pay a 3rd for him all day. I offered the owner a 2nd (2.02) and he rejected it instantly. No counter. He is a Raiders fan though.
