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****OFFICIAL DYNASTY TRADES**** (10 Viewers)
- Thread starter Gottabesweet
- Start date
bostonfred
Footballguy
Maybe he was thinking mike evans? Or Antonio brown?
bostonfred
Footballguy
Is it a ppmw league by any chance?
DropKick
Footballguy
I suspected you would have an arrogant response and to be critical of honest, blunt feedback.
If I'm the other owner, I don't give you the opportunity. Come strong next time or go home.
Snorkelson
Footballguy
You got it, misclick and the other owner happened to be there to accept. We'll see what happens, I suspect the other guy will man up and revoke the deal, but he sure doesn't have to.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
bostonfred
Footballguy
I would rather have 1.4 than a random future first and a 2017 third than a 2017 4th, but the meat of the deal is lacy vs Allen.
Personally I think lacy is more valuable compared to other rbs than Allen is among wrs I totally get preferring the receiver by default in dynasty but position scarcity for rbs is a much bigger deal than wrs unless you can start 4 or 5 wrs. And Allen probably has as many years left with rivers as lacy has left as the starting running back in the Rodgers offense so the longevity argument doesn't really hold as much water with me. I think I take lacy here in leagues where you can only start 2 or 3 receivers, and Allen in leagues where you can start 4+ and/or only have to start 1 rb.
Personally I think lacy is more valuable compared to other rbs than Allen is among wrs I totally get preferring the receiver by default in dynasty but position scarcity for rbs is a much bigger deal than wrs unless you can start 4 or 5 wrs. And Allen probably has as many years left with rivers as lacy has left as the starting running back in the Rodgers offense so the longevity argument doesn't really hold as much water with me. I think I take lacy here in leagues where you can only start 2 or 3 receivers, and Allen in leagues where you can start 4+ and/or only have to start 1 rb.
Borden
Footballguy
1.04 is likely Coleman or Henry. Neither of which I'm excited for but you never know either. The general buzz around this draft is pretty low too versus some of the guys in next years draft. Slight win for 1.04 maybe but generally close. The 3rd and 4th I don't care about. It's something, I guess but not much.
Lacy is in the last year of his rookie deal and I don't think GB is overly impress with his conditioning efforts. He's in a time share with Starks (who they just resigned) and his production last year was not impressive. He will be 26 to start the season. Allen will be 24 this season and looked really good last year. So the difference here is pretty big. A younger player, at a position that usually produces longer, who is his teams #1 option and is showing positive signs. Versus the older player, at a position with a shorter life span, who shares his field time, who could be in a worse situation next year and has weight issues.
Sure there's position scarcity but Lacy is part of the reason for that. Not a safe guard against it. The other thing is that if GB drafts another RB in couple weeks how much does that hurt his stock? With Allen, I don't think SD could draft anyone this year that would hurt him.
Good discussion though. Always good to get both sides.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
One More Rep
Footballguy
Snorkelson
Footballguy
Anyone think that "next years class" is getting a little overhyped yet?
bostonfred
Footballguy
Absolutely. This would be a good year to consider selling off veterans for a rebuild, but some people are selling off good young assets just to lock up as many first rounders as possible.
If you'd done that last year you might have gotten gurley and cooper, which would have been nice. But you might also have gotten Gordon, perriman, Abdullah, yeldon, agholar, dgb, tevin Coleman, duke Johnson, ajayi and Phillip Dorsett. And that was supposed to be a good class with premium rbs and can't miss wrs. Kevin white and davante parker get an incomplete and some of those guys might still emerge but people forget what a crapshoot the rookie draft can be.
Aunt Jemima
Footballguy
Same here.
Fantasy speaking Elliot might land in a much more attractive spot than Gurley and he projects as offering more in passing game. But he's not played a down yet and I view him as a really good RB, not a transcendent type talent like I already know Gurley to be.
Spike
Footballguy
IMO, people only do this to try to fleece teams.
In my experiences, once and owner is known to be this way, people just don't listen to initial trade offers from this sort of owner 1} because they know the owner is trying to fleece them and not deal in good faith 2} because they know the other owner isn't looking to make what even HE thinks in a good deal for both sides.
I don't think it's trying to fleece anyone. There's no set market for any player or group of players so you are free to set whatever price you want. The other team can either get offended and ignore you, play along and counter your offer, or accept if he's happy with it.
My leagues have all types of traders. I play along with all of them and always let them feel like they won. I don't always get my price, but I don't have to deal if I feel like I'm selling too low.
Different trade strategies work for different people that's for sure and I know for instance Ghost Guy's strategy works well for him and I've seen work well for others but it's not my style.
Personally I actually try and make my best offer on the initial offer. Not to be confused with I have no room to negotiate but I try and come correct. I know this sounds crazy but I even try and look at from other teams angle to see how the deal makes sense for them before I offer it.
When people lowball me it's a discussion ending start to any trade talks, not an opening, at best you'll get an equally gross counter offer. The way I see it if you are making me an unsolicited trade offer you chose to shop at my store and I expect you to come correct, walking in my store trying to lowball me is not a way to get a true trade discussion going. But again, that's just me and different methods work for different people.
Personally I actually try and make my best offer on the initial offer. Not to be confused with I have no room to negotiate but I try and come correct. I know this sounds crazy but I even try and look at from other teams angle to see how the deal makes sense for them before I offer it.
When people lowball me it's a discussion ending start to any trade talks, not an opening, at best you'll get an equally gross counter offer. The way I see it if you are making me an unsolicited trade offer you chose to shop at my store and I expect you to come correct, walking in my store trying to lowball me is not a way to get a true trade discussion going. But again, that's just me and different methods work for different people.
You and Ghost Guy would not make many trades. I also look at both sides to justify the trade but I look out for myself first. I'm trying not to offend on my first offer but sometimes it happens. I'm usually able to get past it and still make a deal. But there are guys who go out just trying to lowball and offer value that is inconsistent with what they would ask if they owned the same player. There I agree an equally terrible counter back is warranted.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
Just went down in my PPR 12 team:
Team A gets Odell Beckham
Team B gets Jordan Matthews, Demaryius Thomas, Aaron Rodgers, 2017 1st
Team A gets Odell Beckham
Team B gets Jordan Matthews, Demaryius Thomas, Aaron Rodgers, 2017 1st
Hawkeye Hellraiser
Footballguy
This is a fabulous post - there is nothing that will end trade discussions with me faster than someone that is clearly in it to try to make $.50 on the dollar deals. These owners have absolutely no concept of making deals that make sense for both sides.
And if I do send an offer that could be perceived as a lowball, I always explain my logic or other deals I saw made in that range in the offer. If they don't accept, it's fine, but I have found it makes discussions much easier if you set it up that way.
I don't fret about trying to squeeze every last penny out of deals (another turnoff of mine). Especially in the high stakes side, guys typically aren't going to walk up to you and offer you an awesome deal. Greasing the skids through some smaller deals is a great way to work up to those blockbuster deals that happen down the road.
beef
Footballguy
I'm the same way. I like to make good offer at the start so the other owner knows I'm serious. If I get a low ball offer I typically blow off the whole deal and won't even reply to any negotiations.
Hawkeye Hellraiser
Footballguy
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
I'm not a fan of lowball offers but I'd be more willing to deal with someone that always opens with a lowball offer than someone that has the "you just wasted 10 seconds of my life reading this offer so now I'm never going to talk to you again" mentality you described above.
Maybe it's just me, but I actually enjoy fantasy football. When I see an email in my inbox telling me I have a new trade offer I get excited. I don't roll my eyes and think "ugh, work work work" and if I thought someone else did I certainly wouldn't bother sending them any offers anymore if they were just going to see it as an inconvenience.
bostonfred
Footballguy
If a guy tries to trade you demaryius Thomas for odell Beckham, instead of shooting him down, just tell him I'm not interested in moving obj right now but I'd I am interested in Thomas. Or, I'm not really interested in Thomas but I was going to ask you about bortles or brees, could we maybe work on a smaller deal for one of them? Sometimes a guy makes a bad offer because he's trying to rip you off, but sometimes the guy just has the itch and feels like making trades. Or maybe he feels like everyone tries to rip him off - or that his friends will give him #### if he makes another bad trade - so he's afraid to make a deal he might lose.
This is a fun hobby. Have fun with it and make it fun for him and you might find you're the only guy who can get something done with him - which isn't a bad position to be in.
This is a fun hobby. Have fun with it and make it fun for him and you might find you're the only guy who can get something done with him - which isn't a bad position to be in.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Bingo.
In one of my leagues over the last couple weeks some guy has sent me several lowball trade offers involving (his) Brandon Perriman. Perriman and junk for Dez. Perriman and different junk for Dez. Perriman and junk for AJG. I didn't bother countering any of them at first but I got the message that he's looking to move Perriman. I'm not huge on Perriman but I like him well enough and could tell that this was maybe an opportunity to get a deal on him. So I looked at our teams, came up with an offer that was probably a bit below market value for Perriman, and he accepted.
Like fred said, this is supposed to be fun. This spiteful mentality around trade offers you don't like is just petty, not to mention often unopportunistic.
I like the Beckham side here, in that I dont think Id deal him away for that haul. But if I owned all those other guys, Im not convinced Id give them all up for Beckham. Looks like pretty fair value to me.
Aunt Jemima
Footballguy
ghostguy123
Footballguy
I didn't offer him picks 10 and 30. Are you saying offering picks 4 and 9 for pick 1 is some sort of insulting offer, so bad that you would never listen to another offer from me again?
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ghostguy123
Footballguy
Why are some of you guys talking out your ### about how I approach making trades?? For some very odd reason you are assuming I only send lowball deals that make no sense for the other team.
The first thing I do when approaching a team about a deal is looking at their team to see what kind of deal I might be interested in if I had their roster and picks. I am not offering up Rodgers for pick #1 to the guy who has Luck. I am not offering three future 1sts for Julio when that team with Julio is a top team in the league and clearly competing for a title. I am not offering up Adrian Peterson for a projected high future 1st to a team who is in last place and clearly in a rebuild.
If a team is loaded with 7 good WRs and no RBs and one good TE, I am not going to be offering them another good WR for a TE or something.
The best way to get good value in deals is to make offers that make sense for the other team. Say for example heading into last year, if you offered up a healthy Jordy Nelson and Adrian Peterson for Julio Jones, the value in on the Julio side, but some RB needy teams are interested in deals like that.
I have no idea what some of you have seen me write to sit there and say I offer lowball offers that make no sense.
The first thing I do when approaching a team about a deal is looking at their team to see what kind of deal I might be interested in if I had their roster and picks. I am not offering up Rodgers for pick #1 to the guy who has Luck. I am not offering three future 1sts for Julio when that team with Julio is a top team in the league and clearly competing for a title. I am not offering up Adrian Peterson for a projected high future 1st to a team who is in last place and clearly in a rebuild.
If a team is loaded with 7 good WRs and no RBs and one good TE, I am not going to be offering them another good WR for a TE or something.
The best way to get good value in deals is to make offers that make sense for the other team. Say for example heading into last year, if you offered up a healthy Jordy Nelson and Adrian Peterson for Julio Jones, the value in on the Julio side, but some RB needy teams are interested in deals like that.
I have no idea what some of you have seen me write to sit there and say I offer lowball offers that make no sense.
I don't think I ever said anything about trade offers not being fun, I don't think I ever said anything about thinking trades were work and the most spiteful action I said I would take with an owner was make them an equally implausible counter offer.
And to bostonfred comments I never said anything about not responding to trades either. I have no problem telling people why I'm not interested in their crappy offer, sometimes just as you indicated or sometimes I'll just make a joke if the offer is so bad but nothing where I'm getting into name calling even labeling the offer crappy. Like a few days ago I woke up to an offer of Jamal Charles and Mcfadden for Gurley and Tevin Coleman(and he owns Freeman). I responded by saying the trade offer worried me and I had to run to check the news because I was afraid Gurley had torn both ACL's while being caught on video beating up his girlfriend. The owner responded saying he kept reading the comment and laughing, was new to dynasty but was from Georgia and wanted to know what it would take to get Gurley. All good, no problems. I got one owner in a league who sends me horrible offers almost daily, in extreme cases like that I'm not going to respond every day but most of the time I'll tell you why I'm rejecting in as un-insulting manner as possible.
What I did say was sending me terrible trade offers was is not the best way of going about making a trade with me or to get the discussion rolling and it's not how I go about making my offers.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
I am guessing this thread leads to hundreds if not thousands of horrific offers each year. So many bad trades in here every year.
"Hey, I saw a few guys get Julio Jones for peanuts, maybe I can do the same............................."
"Hey, I saw a few guys get Julio Jones for peanuts, maybe I can do the same............................."
Captain Cranks
Footballguy
I also get excited when I see trade offers...... until I see it's from a guy that thinks I want his scraps for my studs. At some point their reputation precedes them, and if they're perpetually lobbing crap offers my way, things aren't fun, they're annoying.
Often times I'll deal with these characters by responding with, "why do you think I would do that deal?" Sometimes that results in them " coming correct " in the future.
Often times I'll deal with these characters by responding with, "why do you think I would do that deal?" Sometimes that results in them " coming correct " in the future.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
I like any and all offers. In fact, a lot of the owners who tend to send the most atrocious offers are the guys I have an easier time getting good value deals from because they don't seem to know value.
However, there are a select few guys out there who know value very well and are just jackasses.
However, there are a select few guys out there who know value very well and are just jackasses.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
Wow. So in the middle of this whole debate on lowball offers and such, I just got offered 1.10 & 2.02 for Gronk. I've never got an offer from this guy before and it's a new team for me. I'm not sure if I'm supposed to be insulted or if I should be having fun with it. I'm just going to tell him thanks but not for sale.
DropKick
Footballguy
Ummm. because you send low ball offers that even you don't think will be accepted.
The 9th pick in THIS draft is a total crap shoot. Not worth dropping out of the 1.1
ghostguy123
Footballguy
So you are saying picks 4/9 for pick 1 is a lowball offer then?
I don't think he will accept it, but not because it is a lowball offer. It isn't enough, and I wouldn't deal pick 1 for that (most people wouldnt), but that's not a lowball offer. Is it a strong offer? No. But not strong does not automatically mean lowball. We definitely differ on what the definition of "lowball offer" is, and I would imagine most people would differ with your opinion if you think that is a lowball offer.
So you take that one example I gave you (which isn't even a lowball offer) and somehow assume I approach every trade starting at highway robbery pricing with no regard for what someone else's roster looks like?? Alrighty.
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Borden
Footballguy
I don't think this thread leads to horrible trade offers. Everyone and every teams has different values for teams. The "value" of a trade doesn't mean much because usually only one team has that one player. So, if I really want Gronk I only have one option. I might lose the trade on paper but the end result might be better than if I had kept the players I had. Or it might not but that's what makes it my team.
On the other side, I might not believe in Gronk and end up trading him away for too little but if I think Gronk is going to bust and want to get rid of him there's still a limited number of options in trade partners. So, in theory I should've gotten more but maybe that's my only offer that got accepted. Now when Gronk busts next year I'm better off than if I would've been.
All of us that trade a lot have accepted an offer for a player that we would've paid more for but I'm sure we've all been on the over pay at some point too. It's about winning the league not the trades. Of course getting max value is always the best option but it's not the most common option.
Draft picks are a mess for where they're valued. I'm sure Sankey owners aren't too happy with their high draft pick but I'm guessing the Gurley owners are. Some people say picks are a crap shoot while others hang their hat on their drafting abilities. Draft classes aren't all the same either and the production from last years class and the hype of next years class also has an impact.
As for low ball offers, who knows. I've had people get mad at me for low ball offers and I've had others accept initial offers. The only time (and this is almost just a life rule) that I get bothered by offers is if the other person is a jerk in the comments. We can disagree on values without being a jerk. The offer itself isn't the issue it's those comments.
tl;dr There's lots of variables and we all have different values on players. Don't be a jerk.
On the other side, I might not believe in Gronk and end up trading him away for too little but if I think Gronk is going to bust and want to get rid of him there's still a limited number of options in trade partners. So, in theory I should've gotten more but maybe that's my only offer that got accepted. Now when Gronk busts next year I'm better off than if I would've been.
All of us that trade a lot have accepted an offer for a player that we would've paid more for but I'm sure we've all been on the over pay at some point too. It's about winning the league not the trades. Of course getting max value is always the best option but it's not the most common option.
Draft picks are a mess for where they're valued. I'm sure Sankey owners aren't too happy with their high draft pick but I'm guessing the Gurley owners are. Some people say picks are a crap shoot while others hang their hat on their drafting abilities. Draft classes aren't all the same either and the production from last years class and the hype of next years class also has an impact.
As for low ball offers, who knows. I've had people get mad at me for low ball offers and I've had others accept initial offers. The only time (and this is almost just a life rule) that I get bothered by offers is if the other person is a jerk in the comments. We can disagree on values without being a jerk. The offer itself isn't the issue it's those comments.
tl;dr There's lots of variables and we all have different values on players. Don't be a jerk.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
The comments are always the worst part. They make the "worst trade offers" thread an absolute JOY to read though when the comments are included.
But when you get a trade offer in your inbox and someone is offering you something in a one QB league like Andy Dalton for Todd Gurley and says "Dalton will score more points than Gurley" you just want to punch a kitten.
But when you get a trade offer in your inbox and someone is offering you something in a one QB league like Andy Dalton for Todd Gurley and says "Dalton will score more points than Gurley" you just want to punch a kitten.
Aunt Jemima
Footballguy
One More Rep
Footballguy
Yeah cheap for Freeman
DropKick
Footballguy
Lighten up, Francis. I'm just trying to get you to look at it from the other side. Some people (myself included) do get offended when an offer is less than market value. Simply put; it can be insulting. That's just the way some people are wired.So you are saying picks 4/9 for pick 1 is a lowball offer then?
I don't think he will accept it, but not because it is a lowball offer. It isn't enough, and I wouldn't deal pick 1 for that (most people wouldnt), but that's not a lowball offer. Is it a strong offer? No. But not strong does not automatically mean lowball. We definitely differ on what the definition of "lowball offer" is, and I would imagine most people would differ with your opinion if you think that is a lowball offer.
So you take that one example I gave you (which isn't even a lowball offer) and somehow assume I approach every trade starting at highway robbery pricing with no regard for what someone else's roster looks like?? Alrighty.
The context of an offer has a lot to do with it. If a team, that was already loaded with WRs, made me an offer of his 5th and 6th WRs (although decent) and a servicable RB for OBJ, I would be put off. I understand he is trying to build the "best team he can" but there is a point where it crosses the line. If that other team wanted to trot out three elite WRs each week, he could/should have sweetened the deal.
You will think this is contradictory but I don't think it is... if the 4 and 9 were your only picks, the offer wouldn't bother me... However, like a team loaded with WRs, you're sitting on a ton of picks. In that context, I think it is a lowball offer. Like I said earlier, there is a element of greed here that can turn people off.
There is also the context of the draft class. If there were 4 blue chip prospects, your offer is fine. But, many think Elliott is the clear #1 pick with many different opinions of who goes after him. If you and your league mate both see it that way, the 1.01 is VERY valuable. And to get something, you have to give up something. You could have given him the 1.02 and his choice of the best prospect after Zeke.
So my point is the 1.01, 1.03 and 1.04 is not that different from the first three picks and could easily land the same three players, if you really want to lock up Elliott, make a strong offer instead of trying to haggle.
Also, consider yourself lucky to be in a league where people trade in March. My leagues are in hibernation until August.
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massraider
Footballguy
DropKick
Footballguy
Not sure spiteful is the right word. I have three teams across two leagues that I will probably never trade with. The first guys constantly sends out one-sided offers. The next guys will only deal if the trade is heavily in his favor. The other guys will ponder a deal for weeks and never act. They earned their reputations after years of the same behavior.
On the other hand, there are a handful of teams that I've made numerous deals with... It's as if the deals are easier to make once you have established a good rapport.
And I may be behind the Perriman curve, but his valuation seems to be all over the place. Sounds like your trade partner wasn't sold on Breshad but wanted to capitalize on the hype. What was his cost?
DropKick
Footballguy
Wow... quite a haul. But I could see giving that up for OBJ if I had QB depth. Even so... probably wouldn't offer up a 1st round draft pick.
