joey
Footballguy
I’m a Pittman owner in 1 dynasty league and am very hopeful for his future but it might surprise some that he was WR29 in ppg last year. A mid WR3.
I personally like the trade for Hot Sauce, dealing from an area of depth for need.
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****OFFICIAL DYNASTY TRADES**** (33 Viewers)
- Thread starter Gottabesweet
- Start date
I personally like the trade for Hot Sauce, dealing from an area of depth for need.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I mean, yeah - I didn't get a bargain, but I am happy with the deal.
Pittman is a great WR - I've defended him on here for a while now. Many don't think he's a top tier, and I disagree.
But I do feel like this helps me to rebuild with greater flexibility than if I'd gone into the 2023 draft with no RBs. I'd hate to pass up a JSN or Boutte for a RB because I "need a RB".
I have 7 picks in the top 13. I'd much rather have the flexibility to go BPA with those draft picks, which I hope this does for me. And as you say, RBs are tough to come by, and ETN was special in college - I like the way the new coaching staff is talking about using him.
Pittman should be fine. I'm not dissing Pittman at all. I paid a 1st for him when I acquired him.
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
That doesn't surprise me. He put up good, not great, numbers in his second season with an erratic QB and on a team that had the fourth lowest pass:run ratio in the league.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
My thinking is that I don't see INDY changing that ratio for having brought in Matt Ryan at the end of his career. Dude's arm isn't what it once was, and while I think he's a better cerebral QB than Wentz, he doesn't have the physical tools Wentz has with regard to arm strength.
Pittman should be better with Ryan as the entire offense should be more consistent, but I'm not convinced that Pittman will be able to reach his potential with Ryan under center.
I feel like I'm dealing an upside WR2 for a potential RB1. Time will tell if that's an accurate assessment or wishful thinking. I think it's an interesting deal, as it involves 2 of the more polarizing dynasty players.
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
The guy who traded away Lance and the '23 R1 is a perennial contender who already has Mahomes and Rodgers.
The guy who traded away Javonte is very active but seems to be a perennial rebuilder who loves the allure of future draft picks and unrealized potential.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
I would rather have Pittman. Wentz sailed a lot of passes over wide open Pittman a ton. I can think of 3 endzone misses. *Maybe* Matt Ryan unlocks more of him in 2022. But I am a bit on the conservative side with ETN and those lisfranc recoveries. I hope he proves me wrong. Don't know if roster size is a consideration but big plus getting rid of Fuller. Fair deal but give me Pittman.Hot Sauce Guy said:
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Roster size is usually an issue, but not for my rebuilding team. I am hoping to lose a lot in 2022, so if ETN comes back a little slow it actually helps me.
Interesting take. I know you liked when I acquired Pittman so I figured you were high on him.
I do share your concern over the Lisfranc injury, but reports are that he's very close to a full recovery. I did some research when the offer was on the table - seems he said he could have come back to play at the end of last year had the team been in contention. Obviously that wasn't the case.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Good return on Hock.
I’ll take the picks assuming I still have a TE after the deal.
Might even land Meyer in ‘23
titusbramble
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus said:
Ridley?
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Coming back and COMING BACK with that injury are two different things. Also, I read there varying degrees of severity with a Lisfranc injury. Some require surgery and some don’t. ETN had surgery.
Boston
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Yes, I've read the same, and have commented on it in here on earlier ETN posts. Even recently. From what I've read, surgery can be the preferred option, as it has less chance of recurring vs a non-surgical approach.
Also, from what I've read, ETN is running at full speed, making cuts, and has described himself as 85% as of a February. He also said he could have played late in the season. And Doug Pederson just gave a more optimistic update, recently saying he is expected for OTAs.
At some point, one has to stop looking at generalizations and generic time-lines, and look at the specific player. It's entirely irrelevant what the average, or even "typical" recovery is for this injury and entirely relevant at this point what ETN's recovery currently is. I see this as a trap that a lot of FF managers fall into. It misses the trees for the forest, and can lead to missing value on a recovering player.
Obviously there's some risk. There's also a lot of upside for a just turned 23 year old who may be 2nd on the team in receiving targets in a new offense with competent coaching. I see a potential top 5 RB in the next few seasons. YMMV
ETA: as mentioned above, it also gives me a LOT more flexibility headed into the 2023 draft, it things break right. I want to take BPA. Having no RBs and 5 WR gives me less flexibility than having 1 RB and 4 WRs, so it's a bit of a strategic move as well.
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Boston
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Etienne...it is much tougher to find a potential high-end RB like Etienne than a WR like Pittman (Fuller is a solid throw-in but Dynasty-wise I don't give him too much value as he is 28 and has yet to prove he can stay on the field)...if Etienne hits this is a steal...Pittman is a good WR but with all the WR talent coming into the league every year it is not that difficult to find someone like him...this is a sell-low on Etienne.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Thanks. I agree.
I felt like it was an injury discount. I've been trying to give away Fuller for a 4th round pick and no takers, so I didn't care at all about that inclusion, though the other owner mentioned that he "liked the upside toss-in, which is why he didn't counter for a pick".
And looking at 2023, I could take JSN and/or Boutte with my 6x 1sts and potentially not miss much from the loss of Pittman. Whereas if I'm headed into 2023 with RoJo alone, I'm likely force to spend 2 of those top 4 on Bijan & Gibbs (or whichever RB2 is deemed worthy by draft day 2023).
I like my chances at a jackpot here.
It worked out well for the other side, as he is loaded at RB, with Swift, EZE, Edmonds, Foreman & Gibson but was light on receivers. And as an added bonus, the only other team that could possibly crack the top 4 picks is the dude with my trade partner's pick. So adding a WR to his roster helps further my chances at having 1-4. I didn't know this at the time, but it could work out as one more plus to this deal.
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
dipandglide
Footballguy
16 tm, Best ball, sflex, start 2 TE, TE premium
Gave: Trey Lance, Albert O
Got: Lamar Jackson
-------------------------------------------------------------
I like Lance. I'm flipping at his current price for more established QB's to those willing to gamble.
If I've learned anything over the years in start 2/Sflex it's to secure fanchise QB's so you aren't chasing in rookie drafts. Lance is hoping to be what Lamar already is.
Gave: Trey Lance, Albert O
Got: Lamar Jackson
-------------------------------------------------------------
I like Lance. I'm flipping at his current price for more established QB's to those willing to gamble.
If I've learned anything over the years in start 2/Sflex it's to secure fanchise QB's so you aren't chasing in rookie drafts. Lance is hoping to be what Lamar already is.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
frae
Footballguy
These are all safeleague trades so Super Flex qb scoring is 6 pt passing TD's and -2 int and TE is 2 PPR
Took over a discounted orphan on this one and can contend but didn't think Tua was going to get me where I wanted to go so I get older but elite with Brady in this scoring and move myself into a good draft class next year.
Gave Tua, 2.09 and Adam Trautman
Got Brady and a 23 1st
This next deal is very format specific for me, Hock while young and solid has not shown difference maker metrics and Pitts has, TD regression in the positive should come. JJ and Pitts go close in round 1 startups there. Waddle isn't JJ but I don't feel like I am losing too much in age or production. I was 4th last year and should contend again so while I hate losing a 1st in the future I am ok with what I got and a future 2nd in that class could be useful
Gave Jefferson, Hockenson and a 23 1st
Got Pitts, Waddle and a 23 2nd
Again format and team specific, Kittle averaged 19 ppg in this format and JT 21 a healthy Kittle is not going to be far off of JT especially if Deebo leaves. Also the roster had a hole at TE with Engram and Njoku only and while I like both has upside plays that isn't what you want to rely on in 2 TE PPR. RB is deep enough Swift, Lenny and Conners plus lots of injury away types and with the extra 23 1st in a better class they idea would be to get a day 1 or day 2 RB there.
Gave JT
Got Kittle and a 23 1st
Lots of big players and picks in those deals and I only think I definitely will win the first deal in 2022, but the insulation of a 23 1st could let me fix another problem in season if need be in the Kittle deal and Pitts is gold in that format.
Took over a discounted orphan on this one and can contend but didn't think Tua was going to get me where I wanted to go so I get older but elite with Brady in this scoring and move myself into a good draft class next year.
Gave Tua, 2.09 and Adam Trautman
Got Brady and a 23 1st
This next deal is very format specific for me, Hock while young and solid has not shown difference maker metrics and Pitts has, TD regression in the positive should come. JJ and Pitts go close in round 1 startups there. Waddle isn't JJ but I don't feel like I am losing too much in age or production. I was 4th last year and should contend again so while I hate losing a 1st in the future I am ok with what I got and a future 2nd in that class could be useful
Gave Jefferson, Hockenson and a 23 1st
Got Pitts, Waddle and a 23 2nd
Again format and team specific, Kittle averaged 19 ppg in this format and JT 21 a healthy Kittle is not going to be far off of JT especially if Deebo leaves. Also the roster had a hole at TE with Engram and Njoku only and while I like both has upside plays that isn't what you want to rely on in 2 TE PPR. RB is deep enough Swift, Lenny and Conners plus lots of injury away types and with the extra 23 1st in a better class they idea would be to get a day 1 or day 2 RB there.
Gave JT
Got Kittle and a 23 1st
Lots of big players and picks in those deals and I only think I definitely will win the first deal in 2022, but the insulation of a 23 1st could let me fix another problem in season if need be in the Kittle deal and Pitts is gold in that format.
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
this one should work well for you if that 1st is a top 3. I believe Stroud will be there 1.03 as Bijan is thought of as elite enough talent to even push Young to 1.02
But I’m sure in some SF leagues, it’ll be 1-2 Young->Stroud, so you’ll need the pick to be 1.02, really.
There are a few other QBs who should be viable, but I’m not yet sure they’ll have the draft capital or plug & play talent to help you if Brady actually does retire.
But I like the trade in a vacuum - you got a great package for Troutman/Tua.
This one is tough. I like the Jefferson/Hock/1st side.
i love Pitts, and I like Waddle, but man - Jefferson is special, and I don’t think Pitts is that significant an upgrade. For Hock it was about health.
It’s not a terrible deal - it’s close/fair.
Hard to let JT go. I’m on the JT side on this one. He’s arguably the best player in FF. Kittle isn’t young at 28, he’s been hurt often, and he has questions at QB with Lance’s status unknown for 2022.
I don’t think you got enough value in return for JT.
not sure what the calcs will say, but to me it feels like you should have received 2x 1sts + Kittle for JT.
This is the only deal of the 3 I don’t think you got enough.
frae
Footballguy
I figured that generally deal 3 is the most questionable move in the market and if JT is great and Kittle gets hurt I am riding a lot on 1 pick, but in that format Kittle is really good. I agree deal 2 is just fair and a matter of what you want to do, I see both sides I just wanted to fix TE long term and was willing to pay the tax to do it.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
ran it through one of my calcs, and even in that format it’s about 25% off on the Kittle side. Another pick, like an early 2nd or late 1st would have balanced it.
But hey, if you like Kittle, and that 1st ends up top 4, you should be ok. Especially if there’s a string Lance to Kittle connection. And if I’m Lance, I’m looking for #85 just about every passing play.
I agree but the only time you can do that is when you actually can LOOK at the specific player. Meaning until he actually gets on the field in game time action (pre season is good enough) you have no idea how his recovery is actually going. Until then you have to rely on the generalizations and then decide if you are willing to take the risk to take on that player. Until you actually see them play it's all just guess work.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
There are stages in between those extremes.
if he’s ready for OTAs, and says he wouldn’t even know he had surgery by how he’s running / cutting, that has merit.
Sure, you can’t wait to see him on the field. But at that point you’ll pay full price.
Q: do you think I’d get a fully healthy, proven, “on the field” ETN for Pittman?
i don’t.
it has risk, but that’s what buying at an injury discount includes.
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Does it have merit? It's like so and so saying he is in the best shape of his life going into training camp. It's all hearsay and doesn't have a lot of merit until you can actually see the player on the field. Reports are nice to hear and better than reports of being behind but more often than not you are going to get the rosy colored reports even if they aren't quite true.
I have no idea about ETN because I haven't followed the progress. I am only commenting that you never really know until you see the guy on the field. Reports saying he is good and running well and no pain etc are better than nothing but many times that has been said and the player was never quite the same.
Twenty-Four Eighty-Four
Footballguy
Jonesin For Some Football
Footballguy
This is the type of trade I like to see. I'd probably lean towards Lance in SF but if I had QBs, I'd probably pay this for J-Will as I love his upside. Pretty fair and probably a win-win which is the best kind of trade.phandango said:
Jonesin For Some Football
Footballguy
I'd take Brady and the 1st as I'm not a huge Tua believer, Trautman hasn't looked special, and 2.09 in a weak draft does nothing for me.
I like the 2nd trade as I'm a big fan of Jefferson, Hock, PItts, Waddle, and the 23 draft. I would go with the Jefferson side here easily as I am a huge believer in him. Waddle could be capped by Tua and Hill there. I like Pitts but we don't know what his QB will look like either. Seems fair but I'd go with what you gave personally.
I'd take JT all day in the other trade. I'm a Niner fan but Kittle just banged up too much and JT the 1.01 in fantasy startups now. Take him when you can.
Jonesin For Some Football
Footballguy
I'd take the Ek/Godwin side here rather easily. Akers coming back from a bad injury and only one of him or Henderson will be worthy. 1.05 is in a weak draft and Moore is still the WR3 on his team who could even bring in more help at the position. I'll take the talent and if rebuilding, I don't think any of these pieces were enough to make me move the established vets.
Jonesin For Some Football
Footballguy
12 team, 1 QB, .5 PPR and not involved in either.
A couple of small ones
Tony Pollard
for
James Robinson & 5.03
TJ Hockenson
for
2.02/Gio Bernard/Marcus Mariota (he had no backup QB at all even in 1 QB)
A couple of small ones
Tony Pollard
for
James Robinson & 5.03
TJ Hockenson
for
2.02/Gio Bernard/Marcus Mariota (he had no backup QB at all even in 1 QB)
Ridgeback
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
Pollard and Hockenson side, thanks.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
The “85-90%” comes from ETN directly, as with the cutting comments. He made them last week. Said he’s running almost full speed, and that he “wouldn’t know he had a screw in his foot” by the way he feels. That it just gets a little sore.
that’s an upgrade from Feb when he said he was 80-85%.
He also said if the Jags were playing in the playoffs he would have been able to play. Take that one with a grain of salt, but he did said it.
re: OTAs, It’s what Pederson said. he expects him at OTAs, and ETN has said he’ll be ready for OTAs.
So IMO that carries a little more weight than some rando on Twitter reporting this stuff.
the proof will be in the pudding, but again, once that proof is out, his price goes way up. Substantially higher than Pittman + Fuller, IMO. The injury is baked into the price right now.
ETA: I actually posted a list of RBs who were never the same after their Lisfranc. Pretty much all of them were at the tail end of their careers, not 23 years old. Could be something to it.
Ah well. I made the deal. I suggest you shouldn’t trade for ETN based on your feedback. I did.
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
I haven't weighed in on the ETN deal. I don't mind it for the ETN side. At all. Problem is, last year was the year he was supposed to learn how to be a professional running back. You're not acquiring a second-year guy. He's a virtual rookie right now, with all his rookie warts (of which Matt Waldman said he had a lot of).
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Jonesin For Some Football
Footballguy
That was my feeling as well. I really didn't like the Pollard trade as J-Rob's injury scares me, especially with ETN coming back. The Hock one isn't terrible depending on what pick 14 becomes but this is a weak draft.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I am also on the Pollard side and on the Hock side.
Also, In a one quarterback league, Surely there is a better option than Marcus Mariota on the free agent list.
titusbramble
Footballguy
If I thought I was able to get Pollard for JRob and a throwaway pick, I'd have made the offer already, may have to try that myself
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
straight from the horse’s mouth last week.
https://www.bigcatcountry.com/platform/amp/2022/4/12/23022393/jaguars-travis-etienne-talks-offseason-rehab-reflects-year-as-a-fan
you’re correct that players themselves are not always the best judge of themselves when it comes to commenting on recovery, but it sure feels like there’s reason for optimism based on the level of detail he provides.
if true, the buy-low window on ETN will be closing fairly quickly.
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I never said the deal was bad or that i wouldn't do it. I was commenting on your assumption that all was progressing well based on player/coach comments. This time of year these types of comments are usually on the positive side and many times they are not all they are cracked up to be. That was my whole point. Until we see him on the field taking hits, cutting, running full speed, etc it's all just hearsay. Do what you want with that hearsay. That's why deals get done.
I agree that once that happens his price will go up. Take a chance now if you believe as the price will be the lowest it will be (unless he has a setback on the field).
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I don’t disagree at all. Often there are Pollyanna comments made by coaches and players alike. I’ve seen it many many times, as I’m sure you have as well.
I take all of them with a grain of salt, but I also try to look for insight in the details. In this case, I’m actually more optimistic based on the fact that ETN is not all sunshine and butterflies. that he said he can do most things, but not everything lends a lot of credibility to his comments. And he said he's got his speed back, which is the biggest item I'd like to see crossed off the list for a foot injury. Burst/speed = recovered.
That Pederson mentioned a “feature back” role with Robinson very likely out to start the season is also, to a lesser extent, reason for optimism. That Pederson was glowing about how they want to use him in the receiving game also gave me some reasons for optimism. And that Pederson indicated that he'd be ready for OTAs, and sounded highly confident is seemingly relevant too.
We'll see if the Jags draft a RB. They need one, but how high they choose to do so might be an indicator to the negative, similar to the Bills/Gabe Davis.
That’s exactly it.
I have a rebuild…so I am swinging for the fences here. My gamble is that I can parlay a WR2 into a PPR RB1.
if it hits, it’s an absolute jackpot for my team. If it misses, it sets me back.
I don’t think it’s his lowest price - that was right when the injury happened. But it’s a much lower price than when he proves he’s healthy in the preseason. Hopefully it’s “when” and not “if”. Once that happens it’ll take a significantly better offer to get him, IMO.
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Ah, got it. Yes, In theory, the more he proves his health/ability, the higher his price will go.
honestly, I thought my offer of Pittman would be rejected.
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Jonesin For Some Football
Footballguy
I can say there isn't. For some reason, these guys gobble them up in a hurry. We do have big benches so there is no real option on the waiter wire.
