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Official Johnny Manziel Thread (2 Viewers)

When it comes to JFF in dynasty, I'm pretty convinced there will be a strong window in which his value will rise substantially from whatever you paid to acquire him. The trick, at that point, is going to be knowing 1) whether to sell or believe; and 2) when to sell if that's the route you go.

The second he lights up some team for 75 yards rushing and a score plus another 200 passing and a score, the fantasy community will go gaga (look at Terrelle Pryor last year for a stretch). If you time that selling window right, there's almost a guaranteed opportunity for profit with Manziel. The question is whether selling will be the right move.... I'll also point out the hate for Cam Newton his rookie year and how far he was falling in rookie drafts because people thought he was too dumb to run a pro offense, too poor a passer to do anything... and at that point the fantasy community wasn't gaga over running QBs. Perhaps the biggest question surrounding Cam was whether he *wanted* to be great or just wanted to be a star/celebrity. He was the former. Where will JFF fall?

Again, I personally believe he's out of the league in 3 years or he's RGIII part II. Not sure I see an in between.

 
JFS171 said:
When it comes to JFF in dynasty, I'm pretty convinced there will be a strong window in which his value will rise substantially from whatever you paid to acquire him. The trick, at that point, is going to be knowing 1) whether to sell or believe; and 2) when to sell if that's the route you go.

The second he lights up some team for 75 yards rushing and a score plus another 200 passing and a score, the fantasy community will go gaga (look at Terrelle Pryor last year for a stretch). If you time that selling window right, there's almost a guaranteed opportunity for profit with Manziel. The question is whether selling will be the right move.... I'll also point out the hate for Cam Newton his rookie year and how far he was falling in rookie drafts because people thought he was too dumb to run a pro offense, too poor a passer to do anything... and at that point the fantasy community wasn't gaga over running QBs. Perhaps the biggest question surrounding Cam was whether he *wanted* to be great or just wanted to be a star/celebrity. He was the former. Where will JFF fall?

Again, I personally believe he's out of the league in 3 years or he's RGIII part II. Not sure I see an in between.
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not to nitpick here, but RG3 is not really a good "quarterback" yet. He has a ton of flaws. When he cannot run these flaws are exposed immensely. Unless that was your point. If so then apologies.

 
pantherclub said:
JFS171 said:
When it comes to JFF in dynasty, I'm pretty convinced there will be a strong window in which his value will rise substantially from whatever you paid to acquire him. The trick, at that point, is going to be knowing 1) whether to sell or believe; and 2) when to sell if that's the route you go.

The second he lights up some team for 75 yards rushing and a score plus another 200 passing and a score, the fantasy community will go gaga (look at Terrelle Pryor last year for a stretch). If you time that selling window right, there's almost a guaranteed opportunity for profit with Manziel. The question is whether selling will be the right move.... I'll also point out the hate for Cam Newton his rookie year and how far he was falling in rookie drafts because people thought he was too dumb to run a pro offense, too poor a passer to do anything... and at that point the fantasy community wasn't gaga over running QBs. Perhaps the biggest question surrounding Cam was whether he *wanted* to be great or just wanted to be a star/celebrity. He was the former. Where will JFF fall?

Again, I personally believe he's out of the league in 3 years or he's RGIII part II. Not sure I see an in between.
Click to expand...
not to nitpick here, but RG3 is not really a good "quarterback" yet. He has a ton of flaws. When he cannot run these flaws are exposed immensely. Unless that was your point. If so then apologies.
Click to expand...
Meant from a fantasy perspective and dynasty value. RGIII could have been sold for a fortune his rookie year before he got hurt.

 
JFS171 said:
pantherclub said:
JFS171 said:
When it comes to JFF in dynasty, I'm pretty convinced there will be a strong window in which his value will rise substantially from whatever you paid to acquire him. The trick, at that point, is going to be knowing 1) whether to sell or believe; and 2) when to sell if that's the route you go.

The second he lights up some team for 75 yards rushing and a score plus another 200 passing and a score, the fantasy community will go gaga (look at Terrelle Pryor last year for a stretch). If you time that selling window right, there's almost a guaranteed opportunity for profit with Manziel. The question is whether selling will be the right move.... I'll also point out the hate for Cam Newton his rookie year and how far he was falling in rookie drafts because people thought he was too dumb to run a pro offense, too poor a passer to do anything... and at that point the fantasy community wasn't gaga over running QBs. Perhaps the biggest question surrounding Cam was whether he *wanted* to be great or just wanted to be a star/celebrity. He was the former. Where will JFF fall?

Again, I personally believe he's out of the league in 3 years or he's RGIII part II. Not sure I see an in between.
Click to expand...
not to nitpick here, but RG3 is not really a good "quarterback" yet. He has a ton of flaws. When he cannot run these flaws are exposed immensely. Unless that was your point. If so then apologies.
Click to expand...
Meant from a fantasy perspective and dynasty value. RGIII could have been sold for a fortune his rookie year before he got hurt.
Click to expand...
gotcha and I agree

 
pantherclub said:
JFS171 said:
When it comes to JFF in dynasty, I'm pretty convinced there will be a strong window in which his value will rise substantially from whatever you paid to acquire him. The trick, at that point, is going to be knowing 1) whether to sell or believe; and 2) when to sell if that's the route you go.

The second he lights up some team for 75 yards rushing and a score plus another 200 passing and a score, the fantasy community will go gaga (look at Terrelle Pryor last year for a stretch). If you time that selling window right, there's almost a guaranteed opportunity for profit with Manziel. The question is whether selling will be the right move.... I'll also point out the hate for Cam Newton his rookie year and how far he was falling in rookie drafts because people thought he was too dumb to run a pro offense, too poor a passer to do anything... and at that point the fantasy community wasn't gaga over running QBs. Perhaps the biggest question surrounding Cam was whether he *wanted* to be great or just wanted to be a star/celebrity. He was the former. Where will JFF fall?

Again, I personally believe he's out of the league in 3 years or he's RGIII part II. Not sure I see an in between.
Click to expand...
not to nitpick here, but RG3 is not really a good "quarterback" yet. He has a ton of flaws. When he cannot run these flaws are exposed immensely. Unless that was your point. If so then apologies.
Click to expand...
What are his flaws that are exposed so easily when he doesn't run?
 
pantherclub said:
JFS171 said:
When it comes to JFF in dynasty, I'm pretty convinced there will be a strong window in which his value will rise substantially from whatever you paid to acquire him. The trick, at that point, is going to be knowing 1) whether to sell or believe; and 2) when to sell if that's the route you go.

The second he lights up some team for 75 yards rushing and a score plus another 200 passing and a score, the fantasy community will go gaga (look at Terrelle Pryor last year for a stretch). If you time that selling window right, there's almost a guaranteed opportunity for profit with Manziel. The question is whether selling will be the right move.... I'll also point out the hate for Cam Newton his rookie year and how far he was falling in rookie drafts because people thought he was too dumb to run a pro offense, too poor a passer to do anything... and at that point the fantasy community wasn't gaga over running QBs. Perhaps the biggest question surrounding Cam was whether he *wanted* to be great or just wanted to be a star/celebrity. He was the former. Where will JFF fall?

Again, I personally believe he's out of the league in 3 years or he's RGIII part II. Not sure I see an in between.
Click to expand...
not to nitpick here, but RG3 is not really a good "quarterback" yet. He has a ton of flaws. When he cannot run these flaws are exposed immensely. Unless that was your point. If so then apologies.
Click to expand...
In his rookie season, he was a stud "quarterback". He didn't attempt a ton of passes, so his yardage and TDs were average as totals . However, he was extremely efficient as a passer, put up huge rushing numbers and won a ton of games.He did take a step back in efficiency last year as a passer; coupled with the fact he's not a high volume passer and was limited majorly as a runner from the knee injury, and his total stats, especially in FF, were poor.

A 63% completion percentage and a 7.5 YPA through his first 28 games, even with last year's down season should comfort his owners. I think it was Parcells that said a good starting QB can be measured in 3 criteria (could be wrong on Parcells)

1. A win percentage above 55%.

2. A completion percentage above 60%.

3. A YPA of 7+

That's just as a thrower. Add in Griffin's ground game, if he returns to pre-injury form and he's a worthy starter on passing alone, and adds a dynamic option as a runner.

ETA - Even last year he was 60%+ in Comp percentage and 7+ in YPA. Take the average pass attempts of the top 10 passers in volume from last season, pro-rate it to RGIII's efficiency and he gets 4300 yards and 23 TDs. I'm not running the numbers , but factor in he only played 13 games last year, and if given the opportunity to throw the ball more, those numbers would be even greater.

 
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Either Manziel has put on about 30 pounds of bulk on him or he is wearing every piece of protection possible under his jersey :lol:

 
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He also seem to be looking down his receiver really hard. Wouldn't be surprised if we see a good deal of pick 6 INT against a really good corner unless he fixes that

 
matuski said:
Looked better than I expected.
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This would be the beginning and ending of my commentary. So far, so good.

Would like to see him get a start in one of the next couple of games, so we can see him with and against the 1's.

 
Raider Nation said:
matuski said:
Looked better than I expected.
Click to expand...
This would be the beginning and ending of my commentary. So far, so good.Would like to see him get a start in one of the next couple of games, so we can see him with and against the 1's.
Click to expand...
He's already been confirmed as next weeks starter, was announced before the game.ETA; Pettine after the game said he was the likely starter. So take back the confirmed status. You will probably see him start one of these games in preseason.

 
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His intelligence and athleticism showing with the addition of the slide to his game....don't recall seeing him ever do that in college.

 
Kid looked pretty good. Throws had some stank on them, he ran out of bounds right at the sticks and slid when he needed to.

I think he's going to be a good NFL QB

 
Rotoworld:

Johnny Manziel - QB - Browns

A team source told ESPN's Bob Holtzman that rookie Johnny Manziel is "now ahead" of Brian Hoyer in the Browns' quarterback derby.

Holtzman acknowledges his report from two weeks ago -- which claimed the Browns' locker room expected Hoyer to get the Week 1 nod -- now appears likely to be proven incorrect. The players are "starting to think they were wrong," with Manziel pulling ahead by showing superior playmaking ability both in practice and during Cleveland's preseason opener Saturday night. Manziel demonstrated a live arm and poise, and generally made good decisions against the Lions. He's worth targeting as a high-ceiling QB2 late in fantasy drafts.

Source: Bob Holtzman on Twitter

Aug 10 - 9:46 AM
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One of the first things I look for with rookie QBs is whether they have that "deer in the headlights" look (i.e. Blaine Gabbert, etc.) and Manziel looked pretty much in control for a rookie (I know it's only the first preseason game and this can change with some QBs but I like to check this out this early anyways). Manziel did take off running a bit too early on some plays but that's to be expected. I thought he had some nice throws, especially a bullet on a slant route, and a handful of bad ones and again that is not surprising for a rookie. The inconsistency will be a part of the learning curve. Overall, I think Manziel was pretty impressive given it was his first preseason game and I think the fact that he is used to the media circus helped him in that he never seemed overwhelmed. Of course this is a small sample size and I think we will know a lot more next week when he starts.

I will add a minor disclaimer in that my allergies were horrible yesterday and I didn't see every play and wasn't able to focus like normal. But what I did see suggests Manziel will start sooner rather than later.

 
He was good and bad which I expected in his first NFL game. I think you'll start to see more good plays than bad as he goes along. Only time will tell but I give his performance a C+.

He needs to avoid staring down his receivers and looking at option 2 and 3 before tucking and running. He did look comfortable and in control of the offense which is sometimes the hardest thing for a rookie QB.

 
Faust said:
Rotoworld:

Johnny Manziel - QB - Browns

A team source told ESPN's Bob Holtzman that rookie Johnny Manziel is "now ahead" of Brian Hoyer in the Browns' quarterback derby.

Holtzman acknowledges his report from two weeks ago -- which claimed the Browns' locker room expected Hoyer to get the Week 1 nod -- now appears likely to be proven incorrect. The players are "starting to think they were wrong," with Manziel pulling ahead by showing superior playmaking ability both in practice and during Cleveland's preseason opener Saturday night. Manziel demonstrated a live arm and poise, and generally made good decisions against the Lions. He's worth targeting as a high-ceiling QB2 late in fantasy drafts.

Source: Bob Holtzman on Twitter

Aug 10 - 9:46 AM
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 23h

#Browns coach Mike Pettine says Hoyer “has done nothing to have (his lead) taken away from him. But Johnny has made a lot of improvement.”

 
Rotoworld:

Johnny Manziel - QB - Browns

SI's Peter King confirms Johnny Manziel has closed the gap on Brian Hoyer "significantly."

King was reporting from Detroit, where both Manziel and Hoyer played reasonably well in the Browns' preseason opener. The tentative expectation is that Manziel will start the second preseason game and Mike Pettine will name his Week 1 starter before the third preseason game. "It's close," said Browns safety Donte Whitner. "I'd say [the locker room] is split about 50-50. We know they both can play."

Source: SI.com

Aug 11 - 9:51 AM
Click to expand...
 
Half in the bag said:
He was good and bad which I expected in his first NFL game. I think you'll start to see more good plays than bad as he goes along. Only time will tell but I give his performance a C+.

He needs to avoid staring down his receivers and looking at option 2 and 3 before tucking and running. He did look comfortable and in control of the offense which is sometimes the hardest thing for a rookie QB.
Click to expand...
Have to say this was my thought as well.

I see a fair amount of use of the words "impressive" and "solid" in the headlines, but I wasn't left with that. I saw a guy who took off too quickly, or too late, and in between was not looking downfield. He went with the short safe throw every time it seemed. Maybe that's ok for a rookie's first preseason game with 2s and 3s but there were young backup QBs who had better performances thid past weekend, including Griffin, Thomas, Bortles, Kellen Moore (in the same game) even Austin Davis.

 
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Faust said:
Rotoworld:

Johnny Manziel - QB - Browns

SI's Peter King confirms Johnny Manziel has closed the gap on Brian Hoyer "significantly."

King was reporting from Detroit, where both Manziel and Hoyer played reasonably well in the Browns' preseason opener. The tentative expectation is that Manziel will start the second preseason game and Mike Pettine will name his Week 1 starter before the third preseason game. "It's close," said Browns safety Donte Whitner. "I'd say [the locker room] is split about 50-50. We know they both can play."

Source: SI.com

Aug 11 - 9:51 AM
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Remember when this turd tried dipping his chubby little toe in the fantasy waters, and he begged everyone to take Danny Wuerffel #1 overall?

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Half in the bag said:
He was good and bad which I expected in his first NFL game. I think you'll start to see more good plays than bad as he goes along. Only time will tell but I give his performance a C+.

He needs to avoid staring down his receivers and looking at option 2 and 3 before tucking and running. He did look comfortable and in control of the offense which is sometimes the hardest thing for a rookie QB.
Click to expand...
Have to say this was my thought as well.

I see a fair amount of use of the words "impressive" and "solid" in the headlines, but I wasn't left with that. I saw a guy who took off too quickly, or too late, and in between was not looking downfield. He went with the short safe throw every time it seemed. Maybe that's ok for a rookie's first preseason game with 2s and 3s but there were young backup QBs who had better performances thid past weekend, including Griffin, Thomas, Bortles, Kellen Moore (in the same game) even Austin Davis.
Click to expand...
Did anyone ever stop to think that maybe he was throwing to his primary reads? Additionally, it wasn't like the OL gave him the time needed to go down field for a deep shot...

 
CowboysHomer said:
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Half in the bag said:
He was good and bad which I expected in his first NFL game. I think you'll start to see more good plays than bad as he goes along. Only time will tell but I give his performance a C+.

He needs to avoid staring down his receivers and looking at option 2 and 3 before tucking and running. He did look comfortable and in control of the offense which is sometimes the hardest thing for a rookie QB.
Click to expand...
Have to say this was my thought as well.

I see a fair amount of use of the words "impressive" and "solid" in the headlines, but I wasn't left with that. I saw a guy who took off too quickly, or too late, and in between was not looking downfield. He went with the short safe throw every time it seemed. Maybe that's ok for a rookie's first preseason game with 2s and 3s but there were young backup QBs who had better performances thid past weekend, including Griffin, Thomas, Bortles, Kellen Moore (in the same game) even Austin Davis.
Click to expand...
Did anyone ever stop to think that maybe he was throwing to his primary reads? Additionally, it wasn't like the OL gave him the time needed to go down field for a deep shot...
Click to expand...
I agree on the o-line. And maybe they gave him vanilla underneath plays for just that reason. But even if so I don't think it rises to "impressive" given some of the other PS1 performance from young QBs. Basically average, or ok, or all right, or made no mistakes, are the descriptions I would go with.

 
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Raider Nation said:
Faust said:
Rotoworld:

Johnny Manziel - QB - Browns

SI's Peter King confirms Johnny Manziel has closed the gap on Brian Hoyer "significantly."

King was reporting from Detroit, where both Manziel and Hoyer played reasonably well in the Browns' preseason opener. The tentative expectation is that Manziel will start the second preseason game and Mike Pettine will name his Week 1 starter before the third preseason game. "It's close," said Browns safety Donte Whitner. "I'd say [the locker room] is split about 50-50. We know they both can play."

Source: SI.com

Aug 11 - 9:51 AM
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Remember when this turd tried dipping his chubby little toe in the fantasy waters, and he begged everyone to take Danny Wuerffel #1 overall?
Click to expand...
Peter King peaked about 30 years ago.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
CowboysHomer said:
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Half in the bag said:
He was good and bad which I expected in his first NFL game. I think you'll start to see more good plays than bad as he goes along. Only time will tell but I give his performance a C+.

He needs to avoid staring down his receivers and looking at option 2 and 3 before tucking and running. He did look comfortable and in control of the offense which is sometimes the hardest thing for a rookie QB.
Click to expand...
Have to say this was my thought as well.

I see a fair amount of use of the words "impressive" and "solid" in the headlines, but I wasn't left with that. I saw a guy who took off too quickly, or too late, and in between was not looking downfield. He went with the short safe throw every time it seemed. Maybe that's ok for a rookie's first preseason game with 2s and 3s but there were young backup QBs who had better performances thid past weekend, including Griffin, Thomas, Bortles, Kellen Moore (in the same game) even Austin Davis.
Click to expand...
Did anyone ever stop to think that maybe he was throwing to his primary reads? Additionally, it wasn't like the OL gave him the time needed to go down field for a deep shot...
Click to expand...
I agree on the o-line. And maybe they gave him vanilla underneath plays for just that reason. But even if so I don't think it rises to "impressive" given some of the other PS1 performance from young QBs. Basically average, or ok, or all right, or made no mistakes, are the descriptions I would go with.
Click to expand...
I'd like to think Cleveland already knows to a certain extent what they have in Hoyer and plans to start him until he loses the job. And with the gimpy knee they're not going to necessarily risk his health for any real "evaluation." Manziel on the other hand needs reps. So that's what he's going to get. Obviously it was only the first preseason game but I didn't see anything that would make me think he's anywhere near ready or will be.

ETA: Of course, I'm no Peter King.

 
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Watching the play where he has the fullback for the first down and the announcer is critiquing Johnny to make the easy pass... is a perfect example of people not getting him for who he is.

He didn't make that pass because he didn't see it, or hesitated, or missed something. He was buying time for a bigger play knowing they couldn't stop him from the first. This is where he is a genius.. in that extra second he buys by not making the half yard pass. He knows he has the first down with his feet, he was looking for more.

 
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