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***Official Lord Stanley's Cup Playoff Thread: Getzlaf 15 charges four game 6 tickets, a limo, and five steak sandwiches to Cav's room. FBG CORNHOLE A (2 Viewers)

Who wins the 2017 Stanley Cup playoffs?

  • Capitals

    Votes: 31 23.8%

  • Penguins

    Votes: 25 19.2%

  • Habitants

    Votes: 4 3.1%

  • Rangers

    Votes: 8 6.2%

  • Bruins

    Votes: 3 2.3%

  • Senators

    Votes: 2 1.5%

  • Blue Jackets

    Votes: 3 2.3%

  • Blackhawks

    Votes: 12 9.2%

  • Predators

    Votes: 14 10.8%

  • Blues

    Votes: 4 3.1%

  • Wild

    Votes: 12 9.2%

  • Flames

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Sharks

    Votes: 3 2.3%

  • Oilers

    Votes: 3 2.3%

  • Ducks

    Votes: 6 4.6%
  • Total voters
    130
...Yep.  Glad I didn't watch last night's game either.  I can literally look at the stat sheet and envision all 60 minutes. 

 
Doctor Detroit said:
Caps completely outplayed the Pens tonight, really a shame it finished that way.  
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Not sure I agree with this.  You know playoffs is a different animal in regards to how the game is played. Sure, maybe they were out shot, and had more time in the offensive zone, more face offs won (these last two I don't know if true, just guessing), but that has never correlated to "outplaying" a team, especially in the playoffs.  There is much more to it than stats.  You know that Doc. A few years ago the Pens didn't have much success in the playoffs.  There was a pretty bad stretch of years there.  They didn't block shots, they took stupid penalties, they let the game get into their heads.  These last few years, because of a new system, new coach, and more importantly new players (who wouldn't take  Hornqvist over Neal?), they have turned into a completely different team.  They block a ton of shots, don't take penalties, they play with all kinds of heart they never had.  Those intangibles are what correlate into playoff success.  The Caps have plenty of talent, but they lack those intangibles.  The things needed to win in the playoffs.  They are the Pens from a few years ago.

ETA: And I haven't even touched on Fleury.  During that bad stretch, we all remember what a siv he was.  Now, a few years older and wiser, he has been the MVP of the series thus far.

 
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Even though I watched long enough to see the Ducks tie it at 2, was still surprised to wake up this morning and see they won. Edmonton looked ####### unstoppable to start that game. Jonesy said the series was over at intermission.  :doh:

 
Copeman said:
Not sure I agree with this.  You know playoffs is a different animal in regards to how the game is played. Sure, maybe they were out shot, and had more time in the offensive zone, more face offs won (these last two I don't know if true, just guessing), but that has never correlated to "outplaying" a team, especially in the playoffs.  There is much more to it than stats.  You know that Doc. A few years ago the Pens didn't have much success in the playoffs.  There was a pretty bad stretch of years there.  They didn't block shots, they took stupid penalties, they let the game get into their heads.  These last few years, because of a new system, new coach, and more importantly new players (who wouldn't take  Hornqvist over Neal?), they have turned into a completely different team.  They block a ton of shots, don't take penalties, they play with all kinds of heart they never had.  Those intangibles are what correlate into playoff success.  The Caps have plenty of talent, but they lack those intangibles.  The things needed to win in the playoffs.  They are the Pens from a few years ago.
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Agree with your take on both the current and past Pens' teams 100% -- but they absolutely got outplayed last night, particularly in the 2nd and 3rd. I'd agree that it wasn't quite as bad as the box score makes it look, but the Caps controlled the vast majority of that game in the 2nd and 3rd periods.

The difference was Fleury vs. Holtby. He won't win the Conn Smythe because his stats won't be eye-popping enough, but MAF has been the Pens' best player thus far in the playoffs by a fairly wide margin IMO, even with Malkin, Guentzel, Kessel, and Sid playing as well as they have. He's continually kept them in games early with their slow starts, and made plenty of huge saves late to preserve leads.

Ovechkin also didn't show up at all last night except to take a few dumb penalties. The Caps just flat out aren't mentally tough and focused enough to win in the Spring. There is no way Washington should be down 3-1 in this series given home ice and all of the injuries that the Pens are dealing with, but they just always come up small when it matters most and continually find ways to lose.

 
I generally just read the hockey threads instead of chiming in because I don't know what the hell I'm talking about (not that this stops me in other threads). But here's what I've gathered this morning:

1. It's not really about luck. Both historically and this season, the Caps lack "intangibles," commit dumb penalties, and generally don't do the things that the Penguins and other Cup-winning teams do in the playoffs.

2. The biggest difference in this series to date is the play of a backup goalie who likely wouldn't even be on the ice if the starter hadn't gotten injured during pregame warmups right before the start of the playoffs.

Is this accurate?

 
Coeur de Lion said:
Ovechkin also didn't show up at all last night except to take a few dumb penalties. The Caps just flat out aren't mentally tough and focused enough to win in the Spring. There is no way Washington should be down 3-1 in this series given home ice and all of the injuries that the Pens are dealing with, but they just always come up small when it matters most and continually find ways to lose.
Click to expand...
I was in the shower this AM thinking about how the Caps might look next year after they get through this off-season, and I was thinking about how/why a team that has had roster change over the years can repeatedly go flat in the playoffs.  People used to blame Bruce Boudreau...I think that was justified, given his performance since leaving, but he hasn't been there for the last few flops.  Not just him.  People used to say the team was built for high-scoring affairs, not Playoff hockey.  This year we had the best GAA in the league in the regular season.  We found a good goalie.  We're built for playoff hockey now.  Big, physical, and strong on Defense.  Still struggling, and one of the most "mentally tough" goalies in the game is sucking....So what is it?

The ONLY common denominator I can find lies in the core of guys who have been there for all the failures, OR a mental culture of failure in the playoffs that spreads like the flu.  Ovechkin and Backstrom are the big two who have been there since the start of this streak of failure.  Neither really show up big in the playoffs.  Ovechkin puts up some goals, but honestly, he's so 1-dimensional I think it hurts the team more than it helps.  They just feed him the puck and everybody else goes into zombie mode.  No creativity.  Other teams just know what to expect.  That has to play a role in why despite usually out-shooting our opponents, we can't score.  Backstrom I can't figure out - he just doesn't seem to be the same guy in the playoffs.  Along with this, I think to some extent, the "culture of playoff failure" must get passed from team to team in the locker room somehow.  It honestly reminds me of the Redskins where they say the team morale is always so bad.  Just not a "healthy" franchise mentally. 

The only way to deal with this is to basically blow up the team - at least a lot of it -  and start over.  Sadly, Ovechkin, who I think is likely the player the most to blame for the playoff woes, is under contract for 4 more years, and given the dollar amount, I don't see him going anywhere.  Aside from him, maybe this off season's shake-up will help in the long run...

[/rant]

 
TobiasFunke said:
I generally just read the hockey threads instead of chiming in because I don't know what the hell I'm talking about (not that this stops me in other threads). But here's what I've gathered this morning:

1. It's not really about luck. Both historically and this season, the Caps lack "intangibles," commit dumb penalties, and generally don't do the things that the Penguins and other Cup-winning teams do in the playoffs.

2. The biggest difference in this series to date is the play of a backup goalie who likely wouldn't even be on the ice if the starter hadn't gotten injured during pregame warmups right before the start of the playoffs.

Is this accurate?
Click to expand...
What I don't understand is why the Caps seem to always face the hot goalie, no matter who it is...Andersen in Toronto was on fire for much of that series.  Flower is looking like an all-star this series.  Last year it was Murray.  Some years it's been Lundquvist.  There's something about the team that either elevates other goalies to a higher level, or the Caps just get low-percentage scoring chances.  It's odd.  There's too much there for me to say that teams just randomly get hot goalies when they play the Caps.

 
TobiasFunke said:
I generally just read the hockey threads instead of chiming in because I don't know what the hell I'm talking about (not that this stops me in other threads). But here's what I've gathered this morning:

1. It's not really about luck. Both historically and this season, the Caps lack "intangibles," commit dumb penalties, and generally don't do the things that the Penguins and other Cup-winning teams do in the playoffs.

2. The biggest difference in this series to date is the play of a backup goalie who likely wouldn't even be on the ice if the starter hadn't gotten injured during pregame warmups right before the start of the playoffs.

Is this accurate?
Click to expand...
Flower is technically the #2 goalie for the Pens, yes, but he's not really a "backup" in the sense that most people would use the term. He was a #1 overall pick, has won the Cup as a starter in the past, and is a multiple time All Star. Murray is just much younger and had a fantastic playoffs last year when Fleury himself got hurt.

 
Fat Nick said:
What I don't understand is why the Caps seem to always face the hot goalie, no matter who it is...Andersen in Toronto was on fire for much of that series.  Flower is looking like an all-star this series.  Last year it was Murray.  Some years it's been Lundquvist.  There's something about the team that either elevates other goalies to a higher level, or the Caps just get low-percentage scoring chances.  It's odd.  There's too much there for me to say that teams just randomly get hot goalies when they play the Caps.
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No idea, but I do know it (at least) goes back to Halak seven years ago. If it's a scheme or personnel problem that's a long time to have the same problem. Several different coaches, too.

 
Tom Servo said:
Heck, it goes back to Dale Hunter and Rod Langway too.  :P
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Not sure if you're joking here or not, but I do think the Halak/Montreal season was where this "modern era" failure kind of started in my eyes.  Maybe the year before when we lost to Pittsburgh, but they actually won the cup that year, and were very good.  Montreal was an 8 seed, and the Caps were the top seed and president's trophy winners. 

The earlier Caps teams, while not successful in the playoffs either, weren't necessarily SUPPOSED to be successful.  They never went in with the President's trophy, high expectations, etc.  Heck - the year we made it to the finals we were a 4 seed and benefited from the 1, 2 and 3 seeds all losing in the 1st round.  That was also when they re-shuffled the seedings so the top seed always played the low seed.

 
Coeur de Lion said:
Agree with your take on both the current and past Pens' teams 100% -- but they absolutely got outplayed last night, particularly in the 2nd and 3rd. I'd agree that it wasn't quite as bad as the box score makes it look, but the Caps controlled the vast majority of that game in the 2nd and 3rd periods.

The difference was Fleury vs. Holtby. He won't win the Conn Smythe because his stats won't be eye-popping enough, but MAF has been the Pens' best player thus far in the playoffs by a fairly wide margin IMO, even with Malkin, Guentzel, Kessel, and Sid playing as well as they have. He's continually kept them in games early with their slow starts, and made plenty of huge saves late to preserve leads.

Ovechkin also didn't show up at all last night except to take a few dumb penalties. The Caps just flat out aren't mentally tough and focused enough to win in the Spring. There is no way Washington should be down 3-1 in this series given home ice and all of the injuries that the Pens are dealing with, but they just always come up small when it matters most and continually find ways to lose.
Click to expand...
So now do you think the Pens have a chance to win the series?  

 
Sebowski said:
No one is criticizing the ref there, just the little ##### who took a dive like the Pens always do. Crosby was there tonight. In spirit. In dirty diving embellishing spirit. 
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Right...........

Maybe you should actually read (or think) before you post.  There were several posts about the official missing the call, impacting the outcome, etc.  So there were several people criticizing the official. You're the only one suggesting Crosby somehow forced the Pen player to try to buy a penalty (because no NHL player does that, right).   Perhaps the little ##### isn't Crosby, but the person who is #####ing about a guy who wasn't even on the ice last night?  Not naming names (but it's Sebowski).

 
fred_1_15301 said:
So now do you think the Pens have a chance to win the series?  
Click to expand...
Yes, I think that they can win one more game vs. the Caps even without Sid.

Last night was huge -- the Caps are almost certainly done after failing to take advantage of the momentum and injuries heading into that game, even if they somehow win Saturday night. 3 - 1 is a much different story than 2 -1.

The Cup, if Sid doesn't come back? Eh... hopefully we don't have to find out.

 
Coeur de Lion said:
Yes, I think that they can win one more game vs. the Caps even without Sid.

Last night was huge -- the Caps are almost certainly done after failing to take advantage of the momentum and injuries heading into that game, even if they somehow win Saturday night. 3 - 1 is a much different story than 2 -1.

The Cup, if Sid doesn't come back? Eh... hopefully we don't have to find out.
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And the correct answer is.......:drumroll:.................... :yes:

 
Think we can squeeze seven out of the Ducks/Oilers? 

Heck of a game last night.  

 
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pandora said:
WTF is a "siv"?

I think you mean "sieve".
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Yes I do.  Thank you very much for correcting my spelling on that, it is very much appreciated.  Also, this was a very useful and thought out hockey post by you. Kudos on that my good man.

 
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rockaction said:
Think we can squeeze seven out of the Ducks/Oilers? 

Heck of a game last night.  
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I think the Oilers have to win Game 5 in order for this to happen. The Ducks have too much momentum right now. The Ducks have outplayed the Oilers in every game except for Game One, so the Oilers are lucky to have the series tied 2-2. In Game 2 the Oilers played well in the 1st and then hung on for the rest of the game thanks to Talbot. In Game 3, they dominated in the 2nd and were outplayed in the 1st and 3rd. Last night, they came out strong in the 1st and then the Ducks imposed their will for the rest of the game.

This team has overachieved given the expectations for them at the start of the season. They have the city and fans buzzing like they did back in '06 when they went to Game 7 of the SCF and lost. When the playoffs started, most fans hoped they would give the Sharks a good series. After the Oilers knocked the Sharks off and then when up 2-0 against the Ducks, people started to think about how the Oilers would do against the winner of the Preds v Blues series. So, we got a little caught up in all the excitement and started thinking this was going to be '06 all over again (but with a better ending this time).

The Oilers can still win this series, but they have to win Game 5 in a dominating fashion and then try to wrap it up in Game 6 on home ice. If the Ducks win Game 5, they will have too much momentum and the series ends in 6 imo.

So, there is hope for the future of the Oilers. Oilers fans have been waiting a long time to say that.

 
Bayhawks said:
Right...........

Maybe you should actually read (or think) before you post.  There were several posts about the official missing the call, impacting the outcome, etc.  So there were several people criticizing the official. You're the only one suggesting Crosby somehow forced the Pen player to try to buy a penalty (because no NHL player does that, right).   Perhaps the little ##### isn't Crosby, but the person who is #####ing about a guy who wasn't even on the ice last night?  Not naming names (but it's Sebowski).
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Is Bayhawks a Pens fan? If so, I would like to trade him to another fan base. Not looking for much in return, hell I'll even take fancycurtis42 for him at this point. Even though he goes to bed really early. I know I'm dealing from a position of weakness here.

 
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Deputy67 said:
Is Bayhawks a Pens fan? If so, I would like to trade him to another fan base. Not looking for much in return, hell I'll even take fancycurtis42 for him at this point. Even though he goes to bed really early. I know I'm dealing from a point of weakness here.
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No, not a Pens' fan; specifically.  So, no worries about "trading" me to another fan base.

 
Copeman said:
Yes I do.  Thank you very much for correcting my spelling on that, it is very much appreciated.  Also, this was a very useful and thought out hockey post by you. Kudos on that my good man.
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Sorry, spelling is just one of pet peeves.

 
Fat Nick said:
I was in the shower this AM thinking about how the Caps might look next year after they get through this off-season, and I was thinking about how/why a team that has had roster change over the years can repeatedly go flat in the playoffs.  People used to blame Bruce Boudreau...I think that was justified, given his performance since leaving, but he hasn't been there for the last few flops.  Not just him.  People used to say the team was built for high-scoring affairs, not Playoff hockey.  This year we had the best GAA in the league in the regular season.  We found a good goalie.  We're built for playoff hockey now.  Big, physical, and strong on Defense.  Still struggling, and one of the most "mentally tough" goalies in the game is sucking....So what is it?

The ONLY common denominator I can find lies in the core of guys who have been there for all the failures, OR a mental culture of failure in the playoffs that spreads like the flu.  Ovechkin and Backstrom are the big two who have been there since the start of this streak of failure.  Neither really show up big in the playoffs.  Ovechkin puts up some goals, but honestly, he's so 1-dimensional I think it hurts the team more than it helps.  They just feed him the puck and everybody else goes into zombie mode.  No creativity.  Other teams just know what to expect.  That has to play a role in why despite usually out-shooting our opponents, we can't score.  Backstrom I can't figure out - he just doesn't seem to be the same guy in the playoffs.  Along with this, I think to some extent, the "culture of playoff failure" must get passed from team to team in the locker room somehow.  It honestly reminds me of the Redskins where they say the team morale is always so bad.  Just not a "healthy" franchise mentally. 

The only way to deal with this is to basically blow up the team - at least a lot of it -  and start over.  Sadly, Ovechkin, who I think is likely the player the most to blame for the playoff woes, is under contract for 4 more years, and given the dollar amount, I don't see him going anywhere.  Aside from him, maybe this off season's shake-up will help in the long run...

[/rant]
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Ovechkin to the Kings

 
fred_1_15301 said:
So now do you think the Pens have a chance to win the series?  
Click to expand...
Nope.

Last night was the proverbial dead cat bounce.

This is the year the Caps buck the trend and win the series against the Penguins.  Not sure anyone's noticed but the script's already been flipped.  Usually at this point the Caps are up 3-1, not down.  Caps rattle off 3 straight and shake off the mantle of world's chokiest franchise.

Caps win in 7.  Book it.

 
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