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*** Official Michael Cohen Testifies Before Congress Thread *** (1 Viewer)

Henry Ford said:
Poor Giuliani and Trump. Duped by this master criminal. 
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Anything critical you want to say about Giuliani I'll probably nod my head in agreement, but I'm guessing in reality he and the other lawyers are learning with interest from Cohen also because Trump has lied to them too.

 
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Opie said:
the witness is above reproach
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BST makes a really good point, Cohen would be facing probably an extra 10-20 years for breaching his OSC deal. And I say that because of what happened to Manafort, who is staring at life in jail.

Just on the checks alone it's a massive violation of corporate rules - checks from Trump personally, from his trust, and from Don Jr for the corporation, and also the Trump Org COO. - eta - That's obviously totally corroborated by the documents.

 
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Opie said:
the end for President Trump
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Just on Russia alone - because there might be what 5 other investigations implicated here? - and just on the WikiLeaks example, if the WL-GRU connection, which OSC has already indicted on, involved Trump, to close the circle on that OSC/DOJ would have to indict and get corroboration from someone else first, like Stone, or somehow seize Stone's and Cohen's data, or say people working for IRA/GRU to do that. So no I doubt this is the end from a criminal perspective.

Politically, we know Trump could be filmed driving a cash truck out of the Kremlin and Congressional Republicans would say 'hey we don't know his motive, really.'

 
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Some wishful thinking on the part of presidential historian Jon Meacham as the only way this country recovers from this “Trumpian” awful period of history is for the majority of his base to come to grips like Cohen they no longer want to be a part of this con man. Curtail those thoughts right now folks. While there should be no idea that there would be anything to gain by Cohen lying again as he testifies today his base will love the attempts to attack Cohen’s credibility and ignore anything he says....every last one of his base.

 
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lazyike said:
Some wishful thinking on the part of presidential historian Jon Meacham as the only way this country recovers from this “Trumpian” awful period of history is for the majority of his base to come to grips like Cohen they no longer want to be a part of this con man. Curtail those thoughts right now folks. While there should no idea that there would be anything to gain by Cohen lying again as he testifies today his base will love the attempts to attack Cohen’s credibility and ignore anything he says....every last one of his base.
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My favorite part is the current argument that Cohen isn't credible because as the President's close advisor he committed crimes on behalf of the president and then lied about it to congress on behalf of the president.

It reminds me of the Sideshow Bob campaign ad attacking Mayor Quimby for his revolving door prisons that are so lax they even released the dangerous criminal Sideshow Bob.

 
lazyike said:
Some wishful thinking on the part of presidential historian Jon Meacham as the only way this country recovers from this “Trumpian” awful period of history is for the majority of his base to come to grips like Cohen they no longer want to be a part of this con man. Curtail those thoughts right now folks. While there should be no idea that there would be anything to gain by Cohen lying again as he testifies today his base will love the attempts to attack Cohen’s credibility and ignore anything he says....every last one of his base.
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Yep. 

 
I have no idea, but can NY State do to Trump Org what it did to the Trump Foundation? Because this seems like as much a violation of the corporate form as the charitable one.

 
Sammy3469 said:
Wonder if Mueller has the call between Stone and Assange...no I don’t, this is Stupid Watergate after all.
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I think the better question is whether it would be admissible as evidence in any sort of trial.  Let's say that the OSC has recordings given to them from foreign intelligence services.  I guess it depends on who was calling whom and where those people were located.

 
Just a reminder but...

President Donald Trump told special counsel Robert Mueller in writing that Roger Stone did not tell him about WikiLeaks, nor was he told about the 2016 Trump Tower meeting between his son, campaign officials and a Russian lawyer promising dirt on Hillary Clinton, according to two sources familiar with the matter.
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lazyike said:
Some wishful thinking on the part of presidential historian Jon Meacham as the only way this country recovers from this “Trumpian” awful period of history is for the majority of his base to come to grips like Cohen they no longer want to be a part of this con man. Curtail those thoughts right now folks. While there should no idea that there would be anything to gain by Cohen lying again as he testifies today his base will love the attempts to attack Cohen’s credibility and ignore anything he says....every last one of his base.
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
Just on Russia alone - because there might be what 5 other investigations implicated here? - and just on the WikiLeaks example, if the WL-GRU connection, which OSC has already indicted on, involved Trump, to close the circle on that OSC/DOJ would have to indict and get corroboration from someone else first, like Stone, or somehow seize Stone's and Cohen's data, or say people working for IRA/GRU to do that. So no I doubt this is the end from a criminal perspective.

Politically, we know Trump could be filmed driving a cash truck out of the Kremlin and Congressional Republicans would say 'hey we don't know his motive, really.'
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Cohen is the first person connecting a lot of dots publicly. Trump and his supporters better hope he’s spinning tall tales that Mueller can’t verify. Stone looking like he’s in a jam.

 
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Raylan said:
So now the Democrats are hanging their hopes on the congressional testimony of a guy indicted for lying to Congress and disbarred from practicing law?

Good luck with that.
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If this goes down like it should, today's findings will be most analogous to a supporting appendix in an already established paper.  It will be supporting evidence to the investigation that has already been a money maker for the government and general success all around.  I'm not sure the above characterization is quite accurate.

 
I say the following based on experience negotiating cooperation deals. Cohen’s statements that the “Trump is cheap” and “he’s racist” and “he never had surgery for bone spurs” seem gratuitous in this context. And that makes me fear that Cohen doesn’t have as much substantive to offer beyond “I overheard a phone call” and “here’s a personal check he paid me”

Seems like a guy with limited valuable information trying to puff up what he doesn’t know. 

 
So here's where we are: a man who spend many years as the president's closest advisor just offered sworn testimony to congress that the president is a huge racist, and everyone on both sides is shrugging their shoulders about it because most of us already knew that he's a huge racist and because it's eclipsed by all the crimes. I don't even see a mention of the racism in this thread.

USA!  USA!  USA!

 
ericttspikes said:
One of my favorite Trump is lying moments caught on tape.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=tE2XHYxkJgw

The way he says “no” is hilarious. You can almost hear his brain saying yes as he fights to vocalize the lie.

“You’ll have to ask my lying attorney Michael Cohen to verify the lie I’m telling you now.”
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At 0:35. Stares away towards Norway. Steps back. "No, I don't know, no." Followup question, ducks and points to another question.

 
The fact that the followup was about Scott Pruitt and Trump fully backing him is also perfect. That's the question he ran away to.

And the core White House team eating their lunch while watching golf while this disaster was underway right in front of them. In credible.

 
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randall146 said:
Seems like a guy with limited valuable information trying to puff up what he doesn’t know. 
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Probably so legally. It's pretty obvious he was seen as a lackey and not a partner given how he was cast aside upon winning. I also find it curious he does not name names. Maybe he will in testimony but other than some personal shots at Trump and the references to Simple Fredo, there isn't much of that. 

But even his limited information includes perjury, suborning perjury, and bank fraud by Trump. But most of this is going to be political damage. 

 
Sorry, checking in late and haven't been keeping up.

What time is this happening?  Open to the public?

How does this reconcile with attorney-client privileges?

 
randall146 said:
I say the following based on experience negotiating cooperation deals. Cohen’s statements that the “Trump is cheap” and “he’s racist” and “he never had surgery for bone spurs” seem gratuitous in this context. And that makes me fear that Cohen doesn’t have as much substantive to offer beyond “I overheard a phone call” and “here’s a personal check he paid me”

Seems like a guy with limited valuable information trying to puff up what he doesn’t know. 
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Thanks for posting.  Had the same thought -- that Cohen will seem more credible if it sticks to the crimes he can document.  If he seems like he's just going scorched earth to tear Trump down it probably isn't very helpful.

 
randall146 said:
I say the following based on experience negotiating cooperation deals. Cohen’s statements that the “Trump is cheap” and “he’s racist” and “he never had surgery for bone spurs” seem gratuitous in this context. And that makes me fear that Cohen doesn’t have as much substantive to offer beyond “I overheard a phone call” and “here’s a personal check he paid me”

Seems like a guy with limited valuable information trying to puff up what he doesn’t know. 
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I see what you're saying, but if you isolate the crimes they look more substantial and in some cases easily verifiable by prosecutors.  For example using a middleman to buy a portrait of himself on behalf of his Foundation to hide violations of the laws governing charities. He's done this before too, and the IRS and FERC were already looking at criminal charges for previous Trump Foundation violations at the behest of the NY AG. But now there's testimony and I believe documentation confirming his role, and the scheme to hide what he was doing via a middleman suggests that he did this knowing it was a crime rather than simply because he wasn't familiar with the rules governing charities.

 
gianmarco said:
Sorry, checking in late and haven't been keeping up.

What time is this happening?  Open to the public?

How does this reconcile with attorney-client privileges?
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10 AM.

Technically open to the public but I'm sure the room is already filled with staffers and lobbyists who paid poor people to line up overnight. Will be broadcast everywhere, I think even the networks are carrying it.

That's an open question but there's no attorney-client privilege for clients asking attorneys to do crimes, and in any event Cohen has been disbarred and is going to prison so I'm not sure he really cares and AFAIK there's nothing Trump can do about that.

 
David Axelrod just made @randall146 point on CNN. Except he did it from a political point of view and suggested it stinks of Lanny Davis, being provocative rather than substantive. 

 
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prefontaine said:
David Gergen just made @randall146 point on CNN. Except he did it from a political point of view and suggested it stinks of Lanny Davis, being provocative rather than substantive. 
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I think it's both. The fact that he's being needlessly provocative and including gratuitous takedowns doesn't negate the substantive allegations.  It's not a one or the other scenario.

Also the fact that we're even having this conversation shows how far we've lowered the bar for Trump.  Lots of people think these matters are irrelevant unless there's clear-cut evidence of a crime. But the president being a racist and a bully and lying to the American people about national security matters is a huge deal.  Nobody would have even questioned whether those were substantive allegations in previous administrations. The GOP House spent countless hours investigating and holding hearings about Benghazi, and as far as I can remember there was no criminal allegation there at all. It was entirely about whether Clinton and the Obama White House were less than forthright about one particular national security matter for a couple weeks.

 
prefontaine said:
David Axelrod just made @randall146 point on CNN. Except he did it from a political point of view and suggested it stinks of Lanny Davis, being provocative rather than substantive. 
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However I'd also keep in mind that Cohen was asked to carry water and tell lies on just those points in his career for Trump. He organized the black supporters for Trump press conference for example. The man is expiating himself, apparently fully.

 
Sinn Fein said:
I still think there needs to be a perp walk in his future. 
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About Gaetz, I don't know if he would, but I doubt that he just happens to know about Cohen's personal relationships, and I do think DOJ/OSC would be interested in asking him where he got that information and who suggested/asked him to raise it.

 
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Mr. Trump is a racist. The country has seen Mr. Trump court white supremacists and bigots. You have heard him call poorer countries “####holes.” In private, he is even worse.He once asked me if I could name a country run by a black person that wasn’t a “####hole.” This was when Barack Obama was President of the United States. While we were once driving through a struggling neighborhood in Chicago, he commented that only black people could live that way.And, he told me that black people would never vote for him because they were too stupid.And yet I continued to work for him.
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TobiasFunke said:
So here's where we are: a man who spend many years as the president's closest advisor just offered sworn testimony to congress that the president is a huge racist, and everyone on both sides is shrugging their shoulders about it because most of us already knew that he's a huge racist and because it's eclipsed by all the crimes. I don't even see a mention of the racism in this thread.

USA!  USA!  USA!
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That's because 38% of the country already knows that MAGA represents that racism.  That is not a condemnation to his base. They are fully aware and Trump knows they are aware and approve. That's why he says things like 'They are fine people'.  Cohen's statement also isn't news to the rest of us. We've known that since the 90's.

 
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