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***Official MSNBC Thread*** (2 Viewers)

Let's also not lose the context of Trumps many other frauds and misdealings.  This is not some developer off the turnip truck who got in over their heads and didn't realize the people they were involved with.

This is a man, and family, with many ties to Russian and other mafia types, who have gone afoul of the law on multiple occasions.  Hard for them to feign ignorance on these subjects.
All of that is true.  But he's not a developer on this project.  He's just a licensor.  Literally, the only thing the Trump Org does is cash checks for the right to use the Trump name.  When you build a building in a place like Panama, yes, there is a lot of due diligence that you need to do.  Because if you could have suspected that your money was being diverted to FARC or a drug cartel, then you could face some heavy-duty liability (ask Chiquita).

But as near as I can tell, the Trump Org isn't putting any money into the project.  So I'm not sure they're required to determine whether the property is being used to launder drug money or terrorist money.  

 
All of that is true.  But he's not a developer on this project.  He's just a licensor.  Literally, the only thing the Trump Org does is cash checks for the right to use the Trump name.  When you build a building in a place like Panama, yes, there is a lot of due diligence that you need to do.  Because if you could have suspected that your money was being diverted to FARC or a drug cartel, then you could face some heavy-duty liability (ask Chiquita).

But as near as I can tell, the Trump Org isn't putting any money into the project.  So I'm not sure they're required to determine whether the property is being used to launder drug money or terrorist money.  
Very good point, and I should have recognized that.  DUE to all that fraud and malfeasance, it's been a long time since Trump has actually developed much.  In fact, his great successes have been as a brand man and entertainer... both have been huge successes (although I find his brand and entertainment gaudy, shallow and base, but obviously many like it).

 
All of that is true.  But he's not a developer on this project.  He's just a licensor.  Literally, the only thing the Trump Org does is cash checks for the right to use the Trump name.  When you build a building in a place like Panama, yes, there is a lot of due diligence that you need to do.  Because if you could have suspected that your money was being diverted to FARC or a drug cartel, then you could face some heavy-duty liability (ask Chiquita).

But as near as I can tell, the Trump Org isn't putting any money into the project.  So I'm not sure they're required to determine whether the property is being used to launder drug money or terrorist money.  
The articles I have read all make this distinction.

This is the kind of story that just looks bad for the person attached to it when they are elected official. Trump has so many of these things piled up it just doesn't even matter.

And of then you have fanboys like @knowledge dropper who won't even acknowledge the reporting under the guise of "fake news" crap that Trump created.

 
I understand that.  And Engel is a good reporter.  But I'm not entirely sure this story is newsworthy.  
If there's a newsworthiness it's likely that any underhanded Trump dealings may not have been real estate direct, but perhaps through relationships / associates of a Trump in connecting folks, perhaps through Russian networks, and helping to further an overall conspiracy / fraud / laundering. 

 
Agreed in the many sketchy things Trump has done this is lower on the list.
I just think more fundamentally that I'm not sure that Trump had any due diligence obligations.  It would have been nice if Engel had actually identified his sources who said that Trump did.   I could be wrong.  I don't do FCPA work.  But it would seem weird to me.  I'm sure lots of legitimate businesses get money from people participating in drug rings.  Local bodegas, auto shops, whatever.  But they're just a downstream recipient.  

 
I just think more fundamentally that I'm not sure that Trump had any due diligence obligations.  It would have been nice if Engel had actually identified his sources who said that Trump did.   I could be wrong.  I don't do FCPA work.  But it would seem weird to me.  I'm sure lots of legitimate businesses get money from people participating in drug rings.  Local bodegas, auto shops, whatever.  But they're just a downstream recipient.  
Fair enough, all good points.

If we had a closer look at Trumpster's taxes perhaps we'd have a better idea.

 
The articles I have read all make this distinction.

This is the kind of story that just looks bad for the person attached to it when they are elected official. Trump has so many of these things piled up it just doesn't even matter.

And of then you have fanboys like @knowledge dropper who won't even acknowledge the reporting under the guise of "fake news" crap that Trump created.
The Trump name/Brand connotes a level of panache that draws prospectors like a moth to a flame.  Unfortunately a insignificant amount of these people could be grifters.  Fake media outlets and propagandists like NBC focus on those insignificant exceptions in order to continue their unrelenting quest to take down our President and ruin any hopes of throwing out the status quo and making America Great Again.  It’s sad.  

 
The Trump name/Brand connotes a level of panache that draws prospectors like a moth to a flame.  Unfortunately a insignificant amount of these people could be grifters.  Fake media outlets and propagandists like NBC focus on those insignificant exceptions in order to continue their unrelenting quest to take down our President and ruin any hopes of throwing out the status quo and making America Great Again.  It’s sad.  
:lol:  Throwing out the status quo. Trump is cementing it in place.

 
The Trump name/Brand connotes a level of panache that draws prospectors like a moth to a flame.  Unfortunately a insignificant amount of these people could be grifters.  Fake media outlets and propagandists like NBC focus on those insignificant exceptions in order to continue their unrelenting quest to take down our President and ruin any hopes of throwing out the status quo and making America Great Again.  It’s sad.  
PANACHE

Rated below the cable company and Ballz energy drinks :lol:

 
Might have been mentioned already, but the most interesting thing to me was learning about ex Panamanian president and Trump friend, Ricardo Martinelli. His story and foray into politics mirrored Trump's. Hoping both stories end the same.

 
More on Panama from ThinkProgress:

https://thinkprogress.org/ivankas-real-estate-deals-corruption-33f65f778d0f/

Ivanka’s signature real estate deals were disasters linked to drug cartels and money laundering

The president’s daughter has been at the center of a pair of the presidential projects tied most closely to grand corruption.

[...]

Panamanian Paper

The president’s and his daughter’s Panamanian construct, Trump Ocean Beach, was once described by Ivanka as her family’s “largest project in all of the Americas.”

In a report published last week, Global Witness details how the building to which Trump leased his name helped launder “proceeds from Colombian cartels’ narcotics trafficking.” And as Global Witness found, Donald Trump himself “was one of the beneficiaries” of such laundering practices. Information available from a bonds sales prospectus revealed that the Trump Organization would see revenue from every unit sold at Trump Ocean Club.

Even if Trump and Ivanka were somehow unaware that the building served as a spigot for laundering cartel cash, it would have been difficult to miss the signs that Trump Ocean Club — set up during the years that Panama came into its own as an offshore haven — was being used for money laundering on a massive scale.

There were several obvious signs that Trump Ocean Club was laundering cash:

1 - Many of the units were purchased in cash, an easy means of obscuring payments. According to the lawyer for a convicted fraudster — a criminal who acted as a “key player” in laundering drug money at Trump Ocean Club, per Global Witness — the cash that purchased the Trump Ocean Club units found its way to Panama via “mules” crossing the border from Colombia.

2 - Numerous units were purchased in bulk, a common practice behind money laundering.

3 - Numerous units were purchased via anonymous, untraceable shell companies, dozens of which contained “Trump” in their names. Anonymous shell companies, as real estate brokers from Seattle to New York to London can attest, remain one of the most popular means of laundering ill-gotten gains.

4 - Some purchases were even conducted via “bearer shares,” according to sources. “Bearer shares,” in which the holder of a certain piece of paper is the literal holder of the related share, remain so notoriously linked to money laundering that they’ve been outlawed in jurisdictions like the Bahamas, the United Kingdom, and — as of 2013, after the bulk sales at Trump Ocean Club — Panama.

As with other assorted Trump properties, including those in South Florida, many of the clientele in Panama were among the wealthiest actors from Russia — a reality that may have piqued the interest of special prosecutor Robert Mueller. Some of the buyers, according to those interviewed by Global Witness, were connected to Russia’s mafia underworld, a type of client familiar to Trump.

But if these glaring signs weren’t enough, a Reuters investigation also found that Alexandre Henrique Ventura Nogueira, the building’s primary broker, admitted that he offered money laundering among his services. “When I was in Panama I was regularly laundering money for more than a dozen companies,” said Ventura Nogueira, who was arrested in Panama a few years ago on charges of forgery and fraud.

According to Reuters, Ventura Nogueira worked closely with Ivanka on the Panamanian project, meeting with her at least 10 times. Ventura Nogueira told the publication that Ivanka was “ultimately responsible for all aspects of the [Trump Ocean Club] licensing deal for the Trump Organization.” The building, added Global Witness, came with Ivanka’s “personal touch.”

[...]

 
I am sure trump is guilty of something here, but with respect to #3 it is probably random people naming their LLC after the property they are buying so like Trump203,LLC meaning they bought unit 203 in the trump building. See that all the time.

 
I am sure trump is guilty of something here, but with respect to #3 it is probably random people naming their LLC after the property they are buying so like Trump203,LLC meaning they bought unit 203 in the trump building. See that all the time.
That makes me feel better about things.

 
More on Panama from ThinkProgress:

https://thinkprogress.org/ivankas-real-estate-deals-corruption-33f65f778d0f/

Ivanka’s signature real estate deals were disasters linked to drug cartels and money laundering

The president’s daughter has been at the center of a pair of the presidential projects tied most closely to grand corruption.

[...]

Panamanian Paper

The president’s and his daughter’s Panamanian construct, Trump Ocean Beach, was once described by Ivanka as her family’s “largest project in all of the Americas.”

In a report published last week, Global Witness details how the building to which Trump leased his name helped launder “proceeds from Colombian cartels’ narcotics trafficking.” And as Global Witness found, Donald Trump himself “was one of the beneficiaries” of such laundering practices. Information available from a bonds sales prospectus revealed that the Trump Organization would see revenue from every unit sold at Trump Ocean Club.

Even if Trump and Ivanka were somehow unaware that the building served as a spigot for laundering cartel cash, it would have been difficult to miss the signs that Trump Ocean Club — set up during the years that Panama came into its own as an offshore haven — was being used for money laundering on a massive scale.

There were several obvious signs that Trump Ocean Club was laundering cash:

1 - Many of the units were purchased in cash, an easy means of obscuring payments. According to the lawyer for a convicted fraudster — a criminal who acted as a “key player” in laundering drug money at Trump Ocean Club, per Global Witness — the cash that purchased the Trump Ocean Club units found its way to Panama via “mules” crossing the border from Colombia.

2 - Numerous units were purchased in bulk, a common practice behind money laundering.

3 - Numerous units were purchased via anonymous, untraceable shell companies, dozens of which contained “Trump” in their names. Anonymous shell companies, as real estate brokers from Seattle to New York to London can attest, remain one of the most popular means of laundering ill-gotten gains.

4 - Some purchases were even conducted via “bearer shares,” according to sources. “Bearer shares,” in which the holder of a certain piece of paper is the literal holder of the related share, remain so notoriously linked to money laundering that they’ve been outlawed in jurisdictions like the Bahamas, the United Kingdom, and — as of 2013, after the bulk sales at Trump Ocean Club — Panama.

As with other assorted Trump properties, including those in South Florida, many of the clientele in Panama were among the wealthiest actors from Russia — a reality that may have piqued the interest of special prosecutor Robert Mueller. Some of the buyers, according to those interviewed by Global Witness, were connected to Russia’s mafia underworld, a type of client familiar to Trump.

But if these glaring signs weren’t enough, a Reuters investigation also found that Alexandre Henrique Ventura Nogueira, the building’s primary broker, admitted that he offered money laundering among his services. “When I was in Panama I was regularly laundering money for more than a dozen companies,” said Ventura Nogueira, who was arrested in Panama a few years ago on charges of forgery and fraud.

According to Reuters, Ventura Nogueira worked closely with Ivanka on the Panamanian project, meeting with her at least 10 times. Ventura Nogueira told the publication that Ivanka was “ultimately responsible for all aspects of the [Trump Ocean Club] licensing deal for the Trump Organization.” The building, added Global Witness, came with Ivanka’s “personal touch.”

[...]
correlation != proof

 
Richard Engel @RichardEngel 5h5 hours ago

Our investigation into how President Trump made millions from a building tied to organized crime. @Reuters @Global_Witness

Tune in 9pm @MSNBC #OnAssignment

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/panama-tower-carries-trump-s-name-ties-organized-crime-n821706

A Panama tower carries Trump’s name and ties to organized crime

PANAMA CITY — When Ivanka Trump flew here in 2006 to push her family’s latest business project — an oceanfront steel and glass tower called the Trump Ocean Club International Hotel and Tower, shaped like a sail and designed to be one of the tallest buildings in Latin America — a Brazilian real estate salesman named Alexandre Ventura Nogueira says he was ready with a sales pitch.

Ventura, who said he only had a small real estate company at the time, said he told Ivanka Trump that he could sell condos in the proposed skyscraper for three times the price of similar units in Panama City. The reason: the Trump name, which would go on the building in a licensing deal even though the Trump Organization was not the building’s real developer.

Ventura says he and Ivanka agreed to a kind of challenge. If Ventura could sell apartments as easily as he claimed, and for those high prices, he’d become the main sales representative for the project.

“The agreement was, I had a week to sell 100 units,” Ventura said in a recent interview with NBC News. “I said, ‘I’m going to do better, I’m going to sell without telling (the buyers) the price.”

Ventura did sell the initial units, and later hundreds more. He is now a fugitive. In May 2009, Ventura was arrested in Panama for real estate fraud, unrelated to the Trump project. Mauricio Ceballos, a former financial crimes prosecutor in Panama who investigated Ventura, said that dozens of complaints against Ventura crossed his desk accusing him of double- and triple-selling apartments, both at the Trump Ocean Club and other developments.

Ventura eventually fled Panama while out on bail. He denied having defrauded his clients but admitted to NBC News that he has participated in money laundering on behalf of corrupt Panamanian politicians, unrelated to the building project.

Ventura isn’t the only person associated with the building who has had run-ins with the law. An NBC News investigation into the Trump Ocean Club, in conjunction with Reuters, shows that the project was riddled with brokers, customers and investors who have been linked to drug trafficking and international crime. Ceballos, who investigated the project, went as far as to call the skyscraper “a vehicle for money laundering.”

The investigation revealed no indication that the Trump Organization or members of the Trump family engaged in any illegal activity, or knew of the criminal backgrounds of some of the project’s associates. But Ventura said that the Trumps never asked any questions about the buyers or where the money was coming from.

[...]
Yea, shaped like a sail.

:lmao:

 
They knew about Lauer much longer than Fox knew about O’Reilly.  He built a shag proof office for Pete’s sake.  
I am not sure of that as Fox had been settling big bucks sexual harassment lawsuits involving O'Reilly for years but I am not aware of any settlements that were made by NBC on behalf of Lauer. And course the guy running the network, Ailes had his own extensive history of complaints from female anchors and lower level staffers.

And NBC current management has been applauded for taking quick action in terminating Lauer, giving him his walking papers as soon as they verified that the complaint was legitimate (which I think was just a little over one day). Also, for what it is worth, there had been no record of prior complaints filed against Lauer (which is not to say that some corporate colleagues of Lauer were aware of it and looked the other way).

 
Joy Ann Reid absolutely buttblasted by Jane Sanders lmaoooooo ?

@joyannreid 

Um... I get that he has a hardcore following, but his own attitudes toward women, from his weird early writings to his physical dismissal of women in his presence (including his own wife) make that an incredibly dubious prospect.

@janeosanders

I didn't answer your biased reporting about Bernie during the last 2 years @JoyAnnReid. But don't ever use me to demean my husband. I am very happy & very proud to be Bernie's wife. Your perception couldn't be more wrong. Have you ever talked with him? You've never spoken w/me.

 
Say what you want about them but the day the Lauer news broke (also the day of Trump re-tweeting Britain First), they led off each show during the day with the Lauer story and not Trump, reporting on their own house.

 
Jonathan Capehart‏ @CapehartJ 5h5 hours ago

Y'all know @maddow is the show to watch tonight, right?

She is your one-stop Mueller shop. No one knows the story and its intricacies better.

 
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I am not sure of that as Fox had been settling big bucks sexual harassment lawsuits involving O'Reilly for years but I am not aware of any settlements that were made by NBC on behalf of Lauer. And course the guy running the network, Ailes had his own extensive history of complaints from female anchors and lower level staffers.

And NBC current management has been applauded for taking quick action in terminating Lauer, giving him his walking papers as soon as they verified that the complaint was legitimate (which I think was just a little over one day). Also, for what it is worth, there had been no record of prior complaints filed against Lauer (which is not to say that some corporate colleagues of Lauer were aware of it and looked the other way).
Right, it only took 20 years to can him.  They made quick work out of him.  Good reporting job.

 
Jonathan Capehart‏ @CapehartJ 5h5 hours ago

Y'all know @maddow is the show to watch tonight, right?

She is your one-stop Mueller shop. No one knows the story and its intricacies better.
:goodposting:

If I want my hysteria and conspiracy theories amped up to 11, I know where to go:  Maddow.

 
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I am watching Catherine Rampell on Chris Hayes' show right now. 

For the poster's who are arguing the LBGT anchors on cable news in this thread, the only thing I figure out that you guys really want out of this is... 

YOU WANT MORE: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHpRk4Vh0VY

ETA: It's MaxThreshold on the right!

 
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100 percent partisan hack.  
Such a partisan hack that she won an Emmy for her Flint Water coverage:

https://www.freep.com/story/entertainment/2017/10/06/rachel-maddow-emmy-flint-water-crisis/740242001/

Rachel Maddow's dedication to covering Flint water crisis wins her an Emmy

Rachel Maddow's efforts to bring attention to the Flint water crisis have earned her an Emmy.

The MSNBC hosts "Rachel Maddow Show" took home the gold for outstanding news discussion and analysis at Thursday night's News and Documentary Emmy Awards from the National Academy of Television Arts & Sciences.

Maddow was one of the early voices in network cable news to bring Flint's contaminated water to national attention.

In January 2016, she brought her show to Flint for a town hall meeting on the issue that residents "had to shout for more than a year to be heard about the condition of their water," as Free Press columnist Rochelle Riley wrote at the time. 

Maddow's aggressive coverage of Flint reflects a style that has brought her to the top of the ratings heaps. In July, she became the first non-Fox News host to grab the top ratings spot since October 2001 and the days of CNN's Larry King, according to the Associated Press.

Maddow's show nabbed two Emmys total. It also was honored for outstanding live interview for an episode featuring a one-on-one with Kellyanne Conway, currently a White House counselor to President Donald Trump.

 
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Nothing refutes she is a hack.  She spends well over 50 percent of her time on the Russian controversy.  And the remaining time on other Trump conspiracies and anti-GOP bashing topics.  
They generally don't give Emmys for outstanding journalism coverage to someone who is a hack. And she and her staff are meticulous with their research and facts before they run a story, which is why you have never seen accusations that her show is "fake news" or that she ran a false story akin to pizzagate. She has occasionally made some minor factual errors about the subjects she is covering, however when contacted about that, she has issued a correction at the latest by the next show.

 
They generally don't give Emmys for outstanding journalism coverage to someone who is a hack. And she and her staff are meticulous with their research and facts before they run a story, which is why you have never seen accusations that her show is "fake news" or that she ran a false story akin to pizzagate. She has occasionally made some minor factual errors about the subjects she is covering, however when contacted about that, she has issued a correction at the latest by the next show.
Who do you think votes for these?  Hillary won a Grammy.  Maddows is a partisan hack. One of the biggest. 

 
Who do you think votes for these?  Hillary won a Grammy.  Maddows is a partisan hack. One of the biggest. 
The Grammys are not the Emmys. Show me someone else who won a Emmy for outstanding reporting that is considered a hack.

 

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