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***Official NLCS Thread: Giants vs. Cardinals (1 Viewer)

'jon_mx said:
Looks like there will be a game 7. :popcorn:
Click to expand...
Definitely plays into the favor of Detroit. Verlander against... who knows? Won't be Cain, Vogelsong, Carpenter, or probably Lohse (since I'm guessing he'll go game 7 if the Giants hold on). So you're looking at Bumgarner (who's gassed), Lincecum, Wainwright, or Lynn.
 
I would rather have Verlander matched up against their best. But I am comfortable with all 4 Tigers starters pitching well. Unless you are going to have your ace go on short rest and try to get him three starts, where they are at in the rotation is over rated.

 
so he has a 2014 option - too bad because with these performances he could have backed up the Brinks truck somewhere.

 
'Fly said:
'jon_mx said:
Looks like there will be a game 7. :popcorn:
Click to expand...
Definitely plays into the favor of Detroit. Verlander against... who knows? Won't be Cain, Vogelsong, Carpenter, or probably Lohse (since I'm guessing he'll go game 7 if the Giants hold on). So you're looking at Bumgarner (who's gassed), Lincecum, Wainwright, or Lynn.
Click to expand...
Not sure why it would matter since Bochy or Matheney is going to "run circles around Leyland." I'm sure they'll find a way around it, maybe Bob Tewksbury will be used by one of those managerial masterminds. Probably will throw a no hitter. :shrug:
 
'Doctor Detroit said:
'Fly said:
'jon_mx said:
Looks like there will be a game 7. :popcorn:
Click to expand...
Definitely plays into the favor of Detroit. Verlander against... who knows? Won't be Cain, Vogelsong, Carpenter, or probably Lohse (since I'm guessing he'll go game 7 if the Giants hold on). So you're looking at Bumgarner (who's gassed), Lincecum, Wainwright, or Lynn.
Click to expand...
Not sure why it would matter since Bochy or Matheney is going to "run circles around Leyland." I'm sure they'll find a way around it, maybe Bob Tewksbury will be used by one of those managerial masterminds. Probably will throw a no hitter. :shrug:
Click to expand...
I'm not sure why you took such offense to one post. The "run circles around them logically" post was merely an attempt (albeit a poor one since I misquoted it as I should have said "rings" not "circles") to quote Monty Python. And, yes, I still like St. Louis or SF quite a bit more than Detroit based on watching their bodies of work over the past season and throughout the playoffs. I don't feel Detroit is quite as battle tested either. The Yanks probably couldn't have hit Tewksbury or the 2000 version of Jose Lima during the ALCS. If I'm wrong then I'm wrong... No big deal, I'll own up to it.Serious question... How do you think Detroit matches up with both teams? Would you rather Detroit face SF or St. Louis and why?
 
'Fly said:
And, yes, I still like St. Louis or SF quite a bit more than Detroit based on watching their bodies of work over the past season and throughout the playoffs. I don't feel Detroit is quite as battle tested either. The Yanks probably couldn't have hit Tewksbury or the 2000 version of Jose Lima during the ALCS.
Click to expand...
How is Detroit not battle tested? They've been fighting for their division all season. Then they faced a hot Oakland team who passed Texas in it's division. Then they swept the New York Yankees. The same Yankees which had the best record in the AL this year. You can rip the NYY in hindsight all you want but it's the Yankees and their bench players are better than many team's starters. If the Yankees would have gotten past the Tigers and made it to the WS, whoever your favorite team in the NL was you'd probably be plenty scared......because it's the Yankees. If you look at Detroits "body of work" over the season you would say they underachieved....and I'd agree. I think for most Tiger fans, the lowest point may have been September 17 when they choked away a game against Chicago. Most were ready to wave the white flag at that point but instead the Tigers went 11-4 after that game to finish as one of the hottest teams in baseball. And they've carried that into the playoffs with a 7-2 record.My question would be how important is the full year's body of work vs how the team is playing in late September and in October?
 
'scrumptrulescent said:
'Fly said:
And, yes, I still like St. Louis or SF quite a bit more than Detroit based on watching their bodies of work over the past season and throughout the playoffs. I don't feel Detroit is quite as battle tested either. The Yanks probably couldn't have hit Tewksbury or the 2000 version of Jose Lima during the ALCS.
Click to expand...
How is Detroit not battle tested? They've been fighting for their division all season. Then they faced a hot Oakland team who passed Texas in it's division. Then they swept the New York Yankees. The same Yankees which had the best record in the AL this year. You can rip the NYY in hindsight all you want but it's the Yankees and their bench players are better than many team's starters. If the Yankees would have gotten past the Tigers and made it to the WS, whoever your favorite team in the NL was you'd probably be plenty scared......because it's the Yankees. If you look at Detroits "body of work" over the season you would say they underachieved....and I'd agree. I think for most Tiger fans, the lowest point may have been September 17 when they choked away a game against Chicago. Most were ready to wave the white flag at that point but instead the Tigers went 11-4 after that game to finish as one of the hottest teams in baseball. And they've carried that into the playoffs with a 7-2 record.My question would be how important is the full year's body of work vs how the team is playing in late September and in October?
Click to expand...
For my money, single biggest difference between Detroit from April-July and Detroit now is Scherzer. The difference between a five man rotation with one stud and a four man rotation with two studs is night and day.
 
'TobiasFunke said:
'scrumptrulescent said:
'Fly said:
And, yes, I still like St. Louis or SF quite a bit more than Detroit based on watching their bodies of work over the past season and throughout the playoffs. I don't feel Detroit is quite as battle tested either. The Yanks probably couldn't have hit Tewksbury or the 2000 version of Jose Lima during the ALCS.
Click to expand...
How is Detroit not battle tested? They've been fighting for their division all season. Then they faced a hot Oakland team who passed Texas in it's division. Then they swept the New York Yankees. The same Yankees which had the best record in the AL this year. You can rip the NYY in hindsight all you want but it's the Yankees and their bench players are better than many team's starters. If the Yankees would have gotten past the Tigers and made it to the WS, whoever your favorite team in the NL was you'd probably be plenty scared......because it's the Yankees. If you look at Detroits "body of work" over the season you would say they underachieved....and I'd agree. I think for most Tiger fans, the lowest point may have been September 17 when they choked away a game against Chicago. Most were ready to wave the white flag at that point but instead the Tigers went 11-4 after that game to finish as one of the hottest teams in baseball. And they've carried that into the playoffs with a 7-2 record.My question would be how important is the full year's body of work vs how the team is playing in late September and in October?
Click to expand...
For my money, single biggest difference between Detroit from April-July and Detroit now is Scherzer. The difference between a five man rotation with one stud and a four man rotation with two studs is night and day.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't disagree. I'd throw in a healthy Fister, plus Sanchez looks like he adjusted to AL lineups when it mattered most.
 
'Fly said:
'Doctor Detroit said:
'Fly said:
'jon_mx said:
Looks like there will be a game 7. :popcorn:
Click to expand...
Definitely plays into the favor of Detroit. Verlander against... who knows? Won't be Cain, Vogelsong, Carpenter, or probably Lohse (since I'm guessing he'll go game 7 if the Giants hold on). So you're looking at Bumgarner (who's gassed), Lincecum, Wainwright, or Lynn.
Click to expand...
Not sure why it would matter since Bochy or Matheney is going to "run circles around Leyland." I'm sure they'll find a way around it, maybe Bob Tewksbury will be used by one of those managerial masterminds. Probably will throw a no hitter. :shrug:
Click to expand...
I'm not sure why you took such offense to one post. The "run circles around them logically" post was merely an attempt (albeit a poor one since I misquoted it as I should have said "rings" not "circles") to quote Monty Python. And, yes, I still like St. Louis or SF quite a bit more than Detroit based on watching their bodies of work over the past season and throughout the playoffs. I don't feel Detroit is quite as battle tested either. The Yanks probably couldn't have hit Tewksbury or the 2000 version of Jose Lima during the ALCS. If I'm wrong then I'm wrong... No big deal, I'll own up to it.Serious question... How do you think Detroit matches up with both teams? Would you rather Detroit face SF or St. Louis and why?
Click to expand...
Id rather face SF, just based on the cards mystique, I fully expect STl to win tonight. Then again be careful what you wish for. If the Tigers starters keep the course, I really like their chances vs either team. But the bullpen is scary
 
I have NLCS and World Series futures on the Giants so I hope they win tonight. Tigers and Giants are original franchises and have never met in the World Series, that plays a role too I suppose. One more thing is that Cardinals fans more likely to travel to Detroit so I can probably get cheaper tickets if the Giants are in. Pretty much nothing related to the current match-ups

 
There's a World Series thread, an ALCS thread and a Tigers thread. I don't want to see the word Fister in this thread. TIA.

 
'Eephus said:
There's a World Series thread, an ALCS thread and a Tigers thread. I don't want to see the word Fister in this thread. TIA.
Click to expand...
I rarely play favorites, but I am loving your guys at -130 tonight. Am I crazy? Love Cain to pitch a big game at home against the righties in the middle of the Cards lineup, thinking Holliday is kind of a big loss.
 
'scrumptrulescent said:
'Fly said:
And, yes, I still like St. Louis or SF quite a bit more than Detroit based on watching their bodies of work over the past season and throughout the playoffs. I don't feel Detroit is quite as battle tested either. The Yanks probably couldn't have hit Tewksbury or the 2000 version of Jose Lima during the ALCS.
Click to expand...
How is Detroit not battle tested? They've been fighting for their division all season. Then they faced a hot Oakland team who passed Texas in it's division. Then they swept the New York Yankees. The same Yankees which had the best record in the AL this year. You can rip the NYY in hindsight all you want but it's the Yankees and their bench players are better than many team's starters. If the Yankees would have gotten past the Tigers and made it to the WS, whoever your favorite team in the NL was you'd probably be plenty scared......because it's the Yankees. If you look at Detroits "body of work" over the season you would say they underachieved....and I'd agree. I think for most Tiger fans, the lowest point may have been September 17 when they choked away a game against Chicago. Most were ready to wave the white flag at that point but instead the Tigers went 11-4 after that game to finish as one of the hottest teams in baseball. And they've carried that into the playoffs with a 7-2 record.

My question would be how important is the full year's body of work vs how the team is playing in late September and in October?
Click to expand...
I never said Detroit wasn't battle tested. I said they weren't as battle tested. SF and St. Louis have conquered a lot of adversity to get to where they are; more, imo, than Detroit has. And while it's not exactly quantifiable it counts for something.Which leads to the bolded. History has shown us that being hot coming into the playoffs definitely plays a factor. And if that momentum stays throughout the postseason a team can be more dangerous than other indicators might show. (Imagine the momentum the Giants will be riding if they win game 7.) But obviously, as Oakland will attest, it's not the end all be all. September is a much smaller sample size than the rest of the year. There's a healthy balance between how the team is playing right now, how they have played in the past, and what their true talent level is. That'd be an interesting subject/study to delve into in the future.

 
Here's an interesting little write up on Vogelsong's performance yesterday. The similarities in the pitchFX to Craig on those two-strike fastballs is pretty crazy.

My link

Cain has the ability to run his pitches in and out as well but he has to establish the inside part of the plate early if SF is going to win tonight.

ETA: Didn't realize how similar Cain and Lohse were to each other statistically.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Weather is still fine. If the rains come, it probably won't be until the late innings. Maybe it'll keep the seagulls from their nightly attack.

 
'Fly said:
'scrumptrulescent said:
'Fly said:
And, yes, I still like St. Louis or SF quite a bit more than Detroit based on watching their bodies of work over the past season and throughout the playoffs. I don't feel Detroit is quite as battle tested either. The Yanks probably couldn't have hit Tewksbury or the 2000 version of Jose Lima during the ALCS.
Click to expand...
How is Detroit not battle tested? They've been fighting for their division all season. Then they faced a hot Oakland team who passed Texas in it's division. Then they swept the New York Yankees. The same Yankees which had the best record in the AL this year. You can rip the NYY in hindsight all you want but it's the Yankees and their bench players are better than many team's starters. If the Yankees would have gotten past the Tigers and made it to the WS, whoever your favorite team in the NL was you'd probably be plenty scared......because it's the Yankees. If you look at Detroits "body of work" over the season you would say they underachieved....and I'd agree. I think for most Tiger fans, the lowest point may have been September 17 when they choked away a game against Chicago. Most were ready to wave the white flag at that point but instead the Tigers went 11-4 after that game to finish as one of the hottest teams in baseball. And they've carried that into the playoffs with a 7-2 record.

My question would be how important is the full year's body of work vs how the team is playing in late September and in October?
Click to expand...
I never said Detroit wasn't battle tested. I said they weren't as battle tested. SF and St. Louis have conquered a lot of adversity to get to where they are; more, imo, than Detroit has. And while it's not exactly quantifiable it counts for something.Which leads to the bolded. History has shown us that being hot coming into the playoffs definitely plays a factor. And if that momentum stays throughout the postseason a team can be more dangerous than other indicators might show. (Imagine the momentum the Giants will be riding if they win game 7.) But obviously, as Oakland will attest, it's not the end all be all. September is a much smaller sample size than the rest of the year. There's a healthy balance between how the team is playing right now, how they have played in the past, and what their true talent level is. That'd be an interesting subject/study to delve into in the future.
Click to expand...
Oakland lost to a better team who played in a division where the lead was no bigger than 3.5 games all year (battle tested). The Giants won the last three games of the Reds series in Cincinnati then lost three of the first four in this one. Where was all that carry-over momentum?Basically what I'm telling you is...your theories are a ####.

 
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This Cardinals team is the worst fielding major league team I've seen in years, and I watched 150 Tigers games this year.

 
Well, the clock has struck 12 on the Cards. GL in the WS, Giants.

Not sure who I'll pull for yet. Both franchises have suffered for a while now.

 
That double-hit off the broken bat was pretty nasty. Juked Kozma out of his shoes.

I think only '94 Cards would be able to get back in this one

 
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