RaiderBones
Footballguy
Plus if they give him a bump down the road that will likely come after the team moved to LV and no state taxes on that money.
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== OFFICIAL OAKLAND RAIDERS 2018 thread == (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter joey
- Start date
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
On another note -- game day, boys! Sure, not a real game, and we'll likely see a vanilla low-scorer, but looking forward to seeing the following:
[*]Miller at LT. Penn's situation in terms of health, age, his reaction to being asked to take a paycut, etc. has me a little worried, but not if Miller looks like he can step into that role and be serviceable (if not flourish). Will also be good to how Sharpe and Ware may look in rotation here.
[*]Staying with our O-line, eager to see if Giacomini has enough game in him to cement that right side -- we are really weak here, with only unproven guys like Brandon Parker and Ian Silberman behind him.
[*]Our secondary covering Stafford and some pretty talented starters in Tate, Jones, and Golladay.
[*]Our LB corps -- specifically Whitehead playing against his old team -- would be good to see this cobbled-together unit actually look sound, if not great. Such an area of weakness for us, but will be good to see Derrick Johnson play at his old level, and who out of Lamur/Wilbur/Cowser can credibly take on the weakside position, if any.
[*]Will be good to see if Jordy passes my eye test, and see if Switzer is a guy who can displace Seth Roberts as our slot guy. And who out of our depth (Holton, Hatcher, Ateman, Whalen, Harris, Blacknall) can actually look serviceable and potentially push Whitney or make the team on ST. I think we're carrying like 12 guys at the position, so these preseason games will definitely help someone survive. No telling who, though.
[*]Will be good to see Manuel play well, as while I've always loved Cook's scrappiness, he's simply not dependable as a backup IMHO.
For the Lions:
- Gruden on the sidelines. Flashing the Chuckie face, the drama and intensity, the beaming and celebrating with players after nice executions, the whole gamut of emotion. Would be great to see some of the playcalling Gruden and the staff bring to the table from that huge playbook, but we can't expect to see them show their hands in a preseason game. So excited to officially see him on our sidelines, a sight not seen since 2001.
- Our young guys on D-line -- such great hype over Hall, Hurst, and Key. Can't wait to see how camp buzz translates to gametime scenarios, and how Guenther has them line up and attack, rotate, etc.
- Carr. Last year, Carr looked like a guy who was tentative, potentially still physically limited, and not allowed to take advantage of his full range of skills (PA roll-outs, having quality receiving options down the depth chart to open up second looks, etc.). Want to see Carr flash his previous excellence.
- Doug Martin. We know what we have in Lynch, and yes, there is the drama associated with one of Washington/Richard not making the team in the end. It's Martin I'm most eager to see in our backfield. Does he still have the burst and drive, does he still bring his full kit of skills (N/S running as well as elusiveness and maybe even some pass catching) or has he truly lost something since his productive years on the Bucs, the last of which was some time ago.
Will be good to see if Chris Warren or James Butler look to be contributors and if they have what it takes to push Richard/Washington or carve an ST space for themselves.
- As a side note, will be interesting to see how our run game will look in more traditional, non-spread/non-single back formations and see how Keith Smith and Ryan Yurachek look in the FB role in this offense
[*]Miller at LT. Penn's situation in terms of health, age, his reaction to being asked to take a paycut, etc. has me a little worried, but not if Miller looks like he can step into that role and be serviceable (if not flourish). Will also be good to how Sharpe and Ware may look in rotation here.
[*]Staying with our O-line, eager to see if Giacomini has enough game in him to cement that right side -- we are really weak here, with only unproven guys like Brandon Parker and Ian Silberman behind him.
[*]Our secondary covering Stafford and some pretty talented starters in Tate, Jones, and Golladay.
[*]Our LB corps -- specifically Whitehead playing against his old team -- would be good to see this cobbled-together unit actually look sound, if not great. Such an area of weakness for us, but will be good to see Derrick Johnson play at his old level, and who out of Lamur/Wilbur/Cowser can credibly take on the weakside position, if any.
[*]Will be good to see if Jordy passes my eye test, and see if Switzer is a guy who can displace Seth Roberts as our slot guy. And who out of our depth (Holton, Hatcher, Ateman, Whalen, Harris, Blacknall) can actually look serviceable and potentially push Whitney or make the team on ST. I think we're carrying like 12 guys at the position, so these preseason games will definitely help someone survive. No telling who, though.
[*]Will be good to see Manuel play well, as while I've always loved Cook's scrappiness, he's simply not dependable as a backup IMHO.
For the Lions:
- Does Kerryon Johnson look like the real deal, or is there more of a chance to see a full blown committee. Lions have beefed up their O-Line over the last few years, with the last pieces being Ragnow and Tyrell Crosby so they have seeminglysolid depth.
- Will be interesting to see Killebrew, who was solid as a safety a few years ago before his game fell apart, operate as a LB, where Patricia has been using him in camp. Could mean his career continuing or not.
Just a side note on Giacomini. About a month or so ago I saw two NFL Replays, both of them featuring the Texans. I believe one was vs the Pats and the other the Seahags. Anyway, I specifically watched Giacomini because everybody was so negative about the signing. In both those games (Watson starting), he didn't allow one sack against two pretty good defensive fronts. And I remember him opening up running lanes as well. I actually think this is one of those sneaky, under the radar FA pick ups that will hopefully pay dividends and solidify that RT for a year or two until Parker takes over.
Sarlakticacid
Footballguy
BustedKnuckles
Footballguy
ill be ok never seeing the Raiders playing on a baseball diamond again...hate it
Garrett
Footballguy
massraider
Footballguy
Who the #### is Ian Silberman?
Jordy looks leaner than I remember.
Kolton Miller going against Anthony Zettel ain't much of a test, but maybe it's best way to get feet wet. Showed nice awareness on a delayed inside blitz. Didn't play too long, looked like Ware came in as 2nd team LT, and Sharpe at RT. Sharpe looks lean. Ware from the waist down looks like Frank Middleton.
There's so many guys I wanna focus on defense, I'll probably rewatch the defensive snaps.
PJ Hall is thicker than I thought he'd look. He's dense. I liked seeing he and Hurst together inside.
No Arden Key, no Conley is a bummer.
Marquel Lee has the arm-waving in Pro Bowl form, now he needs to get rest of his game to that level.
Connor Cook looks like a different guy. Put the ball exactly where he wanted, pretty much every time.
Matt Patricia looks like he's gonna die from heart disease-tomorrow.
Switzer with a heads up play, and pathetic leap into the Black Hole.
Nick Nelson, Antonio Hamilton, and Daryl Worley all had nice plays.
Eddy P off the infield, nice.
Offense didn't show much from the playbook, but what we did see was more formations, more rushing, and more play action and rollouts. The narrative of Gruden not being imaginative doesn't really take in to account how vnilla they were last year, and how they really hung the OTs out to dry. Gruden is a WC/Bill Walsh guy, we aren't going to see 7 step drops for Ingram/Bosa/Miller to tee off on. I liked the bunch formations that they ran out of, and guys like Switzer and Cooper will be able to fine some wiggle room out of those.
Guenther showed more looks in the first half than Norton did in 2017. I always thought that since Norton played on a defense that had more talent than anyone (Dallas), and coached a defense that had more talent than anyone (Seattle), he never had much exposure or need for clever schemes, disguises, and exotic blitzes. Just a thought.
Jordy looks leaner than I remember.
Kolton Miller going against Anthony Zettel ain't much of a test, but maybe it's best way to get feet wet. Showed nice awareness on a delayed inside blitz. Didn't play too long, looked like Ware came in as 2nd team LT, and Sharpe at RT. Sharpe looks lean. Ware from the waist down looks like Frank Middleton.
There's so many guys I wanna focus on defense, I'll probably rewatch the defensive snaps.
PJ Hall is thicker than I thought he'd look. He's dense. I liked seeing he and Hurst together inside.
No Arden Key, no Conley is a bummer.
Marquel Lee has the arm-waving in Pro Bowl form, now he needs to get rest of his game to that level.
Connor Cook looks like a different guy. Put the ball exactly where he wanted, pretty much every time.
Matt Patricia looks like he's gonna die from heart disease-tomorrow.
Switzer with a heads up play, and pathetic leap into the Black Hole.
Nick Nelson, Antonio Hamilton, and Daryl Worley all had nice plays.
Eddy P off the infield, nice.
Offense didn't show much from the playbook, but what we did see was more formations, more rushing, and more play action and rollouts. The narrative of Gruden not being imaginative doesn't really take in to account how vnilla they were last year, and how they really hung the OTs out to dry. Gruden is a WC/Bill Walsh guy, we aren't going to see 7 step drops for Ingram/Bosa/Miller to tee off on. I liked the bunch formations that they ran out of, and guys like Switzer and Cooper will be able to fine some wiggle room out of those.
Guenther showed more looks in the first half than Norton did in 2017. I always thought that since Norton played on a defense that had more talent than anyone (Dallas), and coached a defense that had more talent than anyone (Seattle), he never had much exposure or need for clever schemes, disguises, and exotic blitzes. Just a thought.
Silver & Black
Footballguy
Man, I hope Mack gets into camp soon and Conley can come back from his most recent injury soon as well. I think the Oakland defense can surprise this year if everyone can get freaking healthy and into camp. I know a lot of people are down on Gruden, but I'm a fan. He's like a breath of fresh air and his tireless work ethic is, in my opinion, just what this team needed. Even though it was just the first pre-season game of the year, I was excited by what I saw, both on the field and on the sidelines last night. I like the vibe.
ICON211
Footballguy
Completely agree. Had same thought about Seattle defense. He coached as if the Raiders had the personnel to just line up and beat the other team based on talent.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Missee 95% of the game so will do some reading. In the car on phone so I will the stories with maybe some thoughts.
https://raiderswire.usatoday.com/2018/08/11/3-takeaways-from-the-raiders-first-preseason-win/
1. Keep hearing Warren. Who does he boot off the team? Martin seems to be the one as Warren can fill the Beast Mode role if he gets hurt and/or to keep fresh. I was hearing good things for camp on him. One of Washington or Richard seems to be a given loss, which one though?
2. Hurst dominant! Man. Love to hear that... getting good play on the inside will open tons of defensive great plays by Mack, Irving maybe Key.... love it.
3. Considering we got Carr, Cooper, Mack, Jackson that says something but yea... lots to be excited about this rookie class
https://raiderswire.usatoday.com/2018/08/11/3-takeaways-from-the-raiders-first-preseason-win/
1. Keep hearing Warren. Who does he boot off the team? Martin seems to be the one as Warren can fill the Beast Mode role if he gets hurt and/or to keep fresh. I was hearing good things for camp on him. One of Washington or Richard seems to be a given loss, which one though?
2. Hurst dominant! Man. Love to hear that... getting good play on the inside will open tons of defensive great plays by Mack, Irving maybe Key.... love it.
3. Considering we got Carr, Cooper, Mack, Jackson that says something but yea... lots to be excited about this rookie class
LawFitz
Footballguy
The amount of hate Gruden received was laughable. Yes it was just one preseason game, but the team progression from JDR is already evident.
And how about this rookie class so far? It's looking ridiculously good. 2014 class obviously had more top end talent, but the impact depth of this class is mind boggling if last night was any indication.
Miller, Hall, Key, Nelson, Hurst, Ateman, Townsend, Pinero, Warren all look like immediate significant contributors. Parker who knows, but he's got similar tools to Miller so maybe we'll see him do good things too. And people said Gruden couldn't draft. So far, he and McKenzie look like a terrific duo scouting rooks.
BTW, the team used ZBS almost exclusively last night. If that is their plan, I don't see a place on this roster for Donald Penn's inflated ego and salary.
And how about this rookie class so far? It's looking ridiculously good. 2014 class obviously had more top end talent, but the impact depth of this class is mind boggling if last night was any indication.
Miller, Hall, Key, Nelson, Hurst, Ateman, Townsend, Pinero, Warren all look like immediate significant contributors. Parker who knows, but he's got similar tools to Miller so maybe we'll see him do good things too. And people said Gruden couldn't draft. So far, he and McKenzie look like a terrific duo scouting rooks.
BTW, the team used ZBS almost exclusively last night. If that is their plan, I don't see a place on this roster for Donald Penn's inflated ego and salary.
BustedKnuckles
Footballguy
reminds me of a boxing coach who had coached someone like Floyd Mayweather...Floyd had so much talent he didnt really need a coach...just someone to say ''go do what we worked on and you`ll be fine''
Then that coach gets a fighter like Arturo Gatti and thinks all he has to say is go do what we worked on...but Gatti didnt have the natural god given talent Floyd had so when things werent just happening the coach didnt know how to coach...he couldnt change things up and use different schemes and even tricks....thats what we need...someone who sees the opponents strategy and adapts ...uses what talent he has to the best of their abilities
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Chadstroma
Footballguy
https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/08/11/oakland-raiders-vs-detroit-lions-nfl-highlights-video-breakdown-preseason-game-schedule-gruden-carr-khalil-mack/
Penn is an interesting situation. They do seem to have confidence in Miller and no matter what the final looks like, with Cable as OL coach we know there will be a lot of ZBS involved where Miller is a better fit. A trade would be nice if we don't get a pay cut.
Echoed my sentiment about the interior. Hurst and PJ can end up making a world of difference for this D.
Penn is an interesting situation. They do seem to have confidence in Miller and no matter what the final looks like, with Cable as OL coach we know there will be a lot of ZBS involved where Miller is a better fit. A trade would be nice if we don't get a pay cut.
Echoed my sentiment about the interior. Hurst and PJ can end up making a world of difference for this D.
BustedKnuckles
Footballguy
DocHolliday
Footballguy
It's a new year, new coaching staff, new players and again, way too many penalties. I guess that's just the way it goes wearing the Silver & Black. I will say Karl Joseph is going to penalize himself right out of the NFL if he doesn't change his playing style. Old school thumpers are becoming extinct. I like the kid and I hope he figures it out, but not a very forward-thinking draft pick by Reggie and crew.
Hey Raider fans. I have box of Bering Legend cigars 5 of 10 that was signed by Stabler. https://goo.gl/images/ZHdTAs It's probably 20 years old so the cigars will be dry. Make me a reasonable offer to box it up and ship it to you. Should be a real autograph as this was a company promo and not a common item.
Sarlakticacid
Footballguy
There was pics/footage of Conley suited up and doing warms up( I guess) before the lions game
bringing him along slowly I Guess
massraider
Footballguy
Conley expected back at practice today.
I'm not even sure if Obi Melifonwu is a real person.
RaiderBones
Footballguy
I thought we were talking about Obi Wan Kenobi who is this Obi Melifonwu you are speaking of?
DocHolliday
Footballguy
I have already written Obi off but am really, really hoping that Conley gets on the field soon, stays on the field, and performs up to his draft spot.
massraider
Footballguy
https://twitter.com/OaklandScout/status/1028661661576482817
This Twitter dude is a treasure. Breaks down Hurst.
This Twitter dude is a treasure. Breaks down Hurst.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Penn restructured. Less money. More guaranteed this year.
Obviously Mack is the highest priority.
I never want to see anyone get hurt but I think it will take an injury to a team for us to be able to trade Seth Roberts. Free up a roster spot and more importantly money. If it happens sooner than we have more room to get a deal done with Mack.
Obviously Mack is the highest priority.
I never want to see anyone get hurt but I think it will take an injury to a team for us to be able to trade Seth Roberts. Free up a roster spot and more importantly money. If it happens sooner than we have more room to get a deal done with Mack.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
I have a hard time believing Davis couldn’t get a loan to pay Mack. The franchise is valued at $2.1 billon. And the money is rolling in despite perception.
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
It was very encouraging to see the defense get stops. It was so frustrating to watch teams dice up the defense every preseason. Night and day.
Sarlakticacid
Footballguy
Chadstroma
Footballguy
He is already pretty leveraged with the Vegas deal. Obviously we are talking blind because there is a lot of we really don't know about... the team's finances, Davis finances, how much is already sunk and leveraged into Vegas.... on and on.... But here is what we know: Davis is the poor man of the NFL owners. The Raiders are on the low end of income for NFL teams. The $1.8 Billion Vegas stadium is taking up $850 million with another $200 million being a loan from the NFL. Add in another $100 million for a new Raider HQ somewhere around Henderson I think. Could it be the reason? Sure. Could the team come up with another chunk of millions to fund the new extension for Mack? I think it is likely they could.
I tend to think it is more of a cap issue.Over the Cap has us at just about $2.5 under the cap right now for this year. (I am unsure if that includes Penn restructure.... I am guessing it does not) That is not a lot of room. There are not a lot of moves that would make sense from what I have been hearing in terms of level of play in camp versus how it will create room. Unless we do other restructures Roberts is the biggest target to make a move but cutting does nothing for us so we have to trade him. If we traded him then we have the difference in cap space that Mack is looking for. Without that or another big restructure and smaller cuts- I am not seeing the cap space to extend Mack right now.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Agreed! They looked much better with DBs like Melvin, Worley and N. Nelson who can actually cover people! And Shareece Wright made a great pass break up in the 4th quarter as well. Combine that with the play of the young guys in the trenches, it could be a good sign of the things to come. Wait til Marcus Gilcrist plays too. Hes still got some game left too.
massraider
Footballguy
EDonald Penn comes back on restructured deal, and team asks him to play RT.
Donald Penn has been a GD excellent Raider. Love this guy.
And the fact is, RT is where the AFC West pass rushers make their money. Kolton will have an easier time at LT.
You can see what people were talking about with his footwork. He needs polish on his technique. But all reports are he's smart and hard-working. I'm cautiously optimistic.
Donald Penn has been a GD excellent Raider. Love this guy.
And the fact is, RT is where the AFC West pass rushers make their money. Kolton will have an easier time at LT.
You can see what people were talking about with his footwork. He needs polish on his technique. But all reports are he's smart and hard-working. I'm cautiously optimistic.
Sarlakticacid
Footballguy
Penn played for Gruden in TB? Is that right?
Sarlakticacid
Footballguy
Has anyone seen heard much about Cooper in camp? I've seen 2-3 videos and that's it. Along with pieces pondering his potential role this year not much at all
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
More than that, to see us work to close pursuit, finish tackles, and guys working to close lanes faster. Used to be we got ripped early and often on big play yardage, but in the Lion's game we seemed to have a guy in position to make a tackle or brought help to bring a second tackler to a missed assignment/tackle.32 Counter Pass said:
Really great analysis above of the game and agree 100% on all of it, including the great call-outs on the different formations and looks we were giving on both sides of the ball, and on Cook, who was surprisingly good. Other highlights in my eyes:
- we seem to have some tough choices to make in our backfield given Warren's strong showing. Richard and Washington looked strong, and we have yet to see what Martin looks like under game conditions.
- Nick Nelson looking to be a huge contributor if he can keep up that level of play -- looked strong at all facets this game, from coverage to tackling to blitzing to jumping on routes. A potential real diamond in the rough.
- Kolton still has many ropes to learn, but his performance was really solid and helps gives us more options on how we use him and Penn, and as a result may help us be less thin along the right side of the line.
- Shilique Calhoun showed up, which was nice, collapsing the pocket and forcing the QB on one play, with consistently strong outside rushes to set up inside moves with his arms, forcing his opponents off-balance.
- great effort from Marquel Lee -- great to see him perform well in that MLB slot that has been such a gaping hole for us. He had a great slide to his right to follow and stuff Blount on a lead run; a fantastic adjustment as he went out on TE pass coverage but came right back to make a tackle on a dump-off up the middle; and saw him get caught in traffic in the middle but free himself and stay with the play and come back to the ball and make a stop or two.
- PJ Hall plays with violence. Had a sick play getting separation with his arms on Joe Dahl and get a sack, disengage from Ragnow to bat down a pass on another play, and looks to have a great motor overall
- Hurst abused Corey Robinson to make a backfield stop and put pressure on the QB in another play, and blow by a guy on the right side of the line that led to a rushed throw (and the Hall batted pass, I believe)
- Antonio Hamilton played aggressive blanket coverage in man and seemed to put himself in position to get a hand/arm in to disrupt the pass
- Unsung hero of the game? Lee Smith had an incredible sealing block on the left side that allowed Lynch to beastmode. And a nod to Joseph on that violent hit -- yes, he drew the flag, but man, do we need a tone-setting guy like that. The hit rattled my own teeth just watching it.
Sarlakticacid
Footballguy
BustedKnuckles
Footballguy
Raiders star LB Khalil Mack has yet to report to the team and ESPN’s Adam Schefter reported that there is “no end in sight. It is now a real possibility that Mack misses regular season action as part of this contract dispute.
kaso
Footballguy
Given how closed doors the Raiders organization has always been with contracts and roster management, I'm going to hold off on believing much of the reports in the media. Even if from someone like Schefter.
More I think about this situation, it really comes down to how Davis, Gruden and Reggie want to build this team.
Hear me out:
I'm in the " sign Mack camp" 100% but is that what's really best for the future of the franchise? Before I get lambasted, I know Mack is an elite player, easily top 3 at his position and deserves to be compensated accordingly. But how will that huge contract effect what the organization does down the road? Gruden gave a hint a few weeks ago concerning how he feels about Mack and the defense over the past couple years. "They weren't very good with Mack!" One great player on defense doesn't make a great defense.
Just my own gut feel, but I get the sense they want to build this team according to the Patriots blueprint as opposed to what the Rams are doing or what Snyder's Redskins did 20 years ago. Stars on paper sound great, but we all know what happened and what will probably happen to the over-hyped Rams. Name one player on the Pat's defense not named McCourty. And they still dominate their division every year. That's the key to this whole thing. Gruden is here for the long haul, he's been watching and studying for 10 years and he's watched the Pat's make it deep in the playoffs every season, all the while not throwing huge contracts at pass rushers. And teams like the Rams who throw money around like candy at a parade fall by the wayside.
I'm a Mack fan and would love nothing more than to see him as a Raider for a few more years. And I'm being a bit of a devil's advocate here possibly bracing myself for the possibility Mack's future will be played somewhere else.
kaso
Footballguy
Very interesting, and hard to disagree with, approach to the situation Bruno.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for Mack signing and remaining a Raider. As a fan, I want the best product the team can put on the field. And right now that has to, and would, include Mack.
Reggie has proven that he can do some very team-friendly things with how he constructs contracts. So I think there can be a balance here where Mack remains, and the team still can be competitive in the short term and long term from a free agent perspective. It is much wiser to maintain the assets you know then to acquire them on the FA market at top dollar.
While the Patriots model works and works exceptionally well. It is all based on a very well run football program that has been in place for an extended period of time. Gruden and the Raiders have not established that program or success through one training camp. Not saying it can't happen, we just aren't there yet.
Agree 100%. Its also going to come down to how much the Mack Camp (ultimately Mack's decision alone) wants to give up to stay a Raider. Maybe he only wants to be a Raider if the price is right. Time will tell.
