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== OFFICIAL OAKLAND RAIDERS 2018 thread == (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter joey
- Start date
Godsbrother
Footballguy
Loved the Martavis Bryant trade. If Gruden's plan includes any more moves like that the Raiders are screwed.
They should fire him so he doesn't blow the picks. If he makes great picks, fire him before they hit the field because he sucks at coaching.
The rational side of my fandom tells me to be patient. This is Gruden's first year in a 10 year contract. He's under no pressure to win and he's purging the roster, I get it. What bothers me is how bad and dysfunctional this organization really is. Nevermind the fact that the team is now completely devoid of any talent, especially on defense but Gruden and Guenther were completely out coached by Shanahan. You know his father was sitting on a couch somewhere laughing his a$$ off last night.
And let's not forget, this was Nic Mullens last night fellas. Not Andrew Luck or even Baker Mayfield. NIC EFFING MULLENS! That's inexcusable on so many levels it's not even funny.
This organization has been a disaster for the better part of 18 years. But this year and last night is a new level of low. It's worse now than the JaMarcus Russell era. I thought I'd never say that. All I gotta say is Gruden better hit on those draft picks or it will be another 2 decades of futility. I'm not sure how much I can take, I used to look forward to August and September. Now I look forward to the NFL combine and the draft in Hope's the team's savior(s) is somwhere out there.
And let's not forget, this was Nic Mullens last night fellas. Not Andrew Luck or even Baker Mayfield. NIC EFFING MULLENS! That's inexcusable on so many levels it's not even funny.
This organization has been a disaster for the better part of 18 years. But this year and last night is a new level of low. It's worse now than the JaMarcus Russell era. I thought I'd never say that. All I gotta say is Gruden better hit on those draft picks or it will be another 2 decades of futility. I'm not sure how much I can take, I used to look forward to August and September. Now I look forward to the NFL combine and the draft in Hope's the team's savior(s) is somwhere out there.
ICON211
Footballguy
Gruden is a bad coach that reminds me of the NFL equivalent of Mike Matheny. The game has passed him by. His seat should be hotter than hot outside of 10 years, $100,000,000. The main question is how much money the ownership will write off to get rid of him. I do look forward to Gruden's constant excuses about not having the players/coaches/anything but him when the continue to lose.
Moonshine
Footballguy
- I'd say 6 of the 9 2018 draft picks will make it to 2020. Townsend is perfectly mediocre and might be gone if he goes on a cold streak. Ateman will probably get dumped too. One or two more out of that group on top of those guys is my guess.
- I think Carr will still be there, even if we draft an heir apparent in either of the next drafts, I think Carr at least makes it to the beginning roster of the 2020 season.
- I bet one of our three beefy boys (Gabe Jackson, Osemele and Hudson) are still on the roster at 2020. Osemele probably one of them.
- A few more dart throws (Vanderdoes, maybe, if he comes back healthy) to provide depth.
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Neil Beaufort Zod
Footballguy
I'm not a Raiders fan, but I am a football fan. I get that the team isn't really all about winning this year. It's an evaluation year for the players.
But it's also an evaluation year for Gruden. Can he compete in the modern game? Does he have the right eye for talent in 2018? Will he get the most out of his players?
So far, the answer to that last question is no. The team isn't competing hard and losing. They're just losing. They aren't giving it their all and coming up short. They're just a "team" on the schedule for their opponents. They have no identity and no fire.
Now, maybe Gruden needs this year to find "his guys" and purge the roster until they're all on board. Then everyone will be on the same page, working hard and giving it their all. But this isn't a situation where players *want* to be part of the system, and then it's up to him whether they're good enough. The players don't seem to want to be there. They want an NFL job, and the Raiders have them. But playing for Gruden and the Raiders doesn't seem to have much appeal.
You'd think that the players would want to get on board and earn their spot. But that doesn't seem to be the case here. You can blame having the "wrong" players or you can blame having an uninspiring coach. Raiders fans better hope it's the former. I'm not sure either way. I guess we'll see.
But it's also an evaluation year for Gruden. Can he compete in the modern game? Does he have the right eye for talent in 2018? Will he get the most out of his players?
So far, the answer to that last question is no. The team isn't competing hard and losing. They're just losing. They aren't giving it their all and coming up short. They're just a "team" on the schedule for their opponents. They have no identity and no fire.
Now, maybe Gruden needs this year to find "his guys" and purge the roster until they're all on board. Then everyone will be on the same page, working hard and giving it their all. But this isn't a situation where players *want* to be part of the system, and then it's up to him whether they're good enough. The players don't seem to want to be there. They want an NFL job, and the Raiders have them. But playing for Gruden and the Raiders doesn't seem to have much appeal.
You'd think that the players would want to get on board and earn their spot. But that doesn't seem to be the case here. You can blame having the "wrong" players or you can blame having an uninspiring coach. Raiders fans better hope it's the former. I'm not sure either way. I guess we'll see.
Put yourself in the shoes of the average Raider player for a minute. You know the team is tanking for a top draft pick, and trading away anyone worthy of a decent draft pick. If you don't want to be on a rebuilding team, what motivates you to play hard? Perhaps if you do shine, you too can be traded. But then again, if you look too good, Gruden will bench you.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
Too bad the Raiders cant just forfeit the rest of their games this season
Too bad the Raiders cannot just forfeit their games this season since Gruden doesn't want to coach and the players don't want to play. No need for any players to get injured in meaningless games either.
Aznflyer14
Footballguy
Man, Raiders' OL sucks and Tom Cable needs to be fired. One of my friends who is Raiders homer told me that he never understood (and did not like) the hiring of Cable.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
While that true if you used that logic all position coaches shoukd be fired. The D line did nothing. The LBs were invisible and the secondary looked silly. I haven't seen that many wide open WRs in one game
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I’m mixed on this whole thing.
I see Raiders fans have moved on from “denial” to “acceptance” in their stages of grief, which is good...healing.
But I do have questions.
Like, if this is a rebuilding franchise being set up to win in Las Vegas, why trade Mack? Why trade Amari Cooper? Yes, I get it - they’re expensive. All star players are expensive. Age + talent makes these two players guys that you rebuild around.
Havig Mack + Cooper in Vegas would seem like a far better nucleus to build a winning franchise around than what they’ve got now, which is basically retread crap.
Also, if they’re rebuilding & that was the whole plan all along, why go out and get Jordy Nelson? Why piss away a 3rd round pick on Martaviou Bryant (who was worth a 5th at best, and probably shoulda been conditional on his not failing another pee test)? Those two moves said “we want to win now!” pretty loud & clear. You don’t bring in an aging FA WR to rebuild. And Martavius Bryant isn’t a piece that you rebuild around - so why overpay for him? And why act like your plan is to win-now from draft day through about week 2 if the plan was to blow it all up? This felt like the Raiders changed horses in the middle of the stream after they couldn’t get Mack signed.
Why send that 2nd rounder back to the Bears if your plan is to tank? The Bears are going to be rofl when they’re on the clock in 2020 picking somewhere in the top 5. How does that happen if the Raiders are putting everything into rebuilding? Wouldn’t those 2nd & 5th round picks be super valuable to the Raiders in 2020 since they’re rebuilding? I fail to grasp the long-game genius supposedly on display by that grossly incompetent deal.
If they’re doing the long-game rebuild, why didn’t they deal Carr? Dude’s best years are going to be wasted as a punching bag behind a crap OL with a receiving corps devoid of talent.
How long of a long-game is this rebuild gonna be, exactly? Because looking at the Raiders, I see holes at
• OL (most of it)
• DT
• LB
• WR
• RB
• FB
• Secondary (CB, SS, FS)
• maybe even QB (I remain unconvinced Carr hasn’t turned into David from the hits/hurries/injuries)
That’s a hell of a lot of holes regardless of how many draft picks they have.
Which leads me to my final question/concern here: knowing the Raiders can’t fill all these holes in 2019’s draft, how will the Raiders attract any talent? As a fan of the team across the bay, I can tell you first hand how difficult it was for the Niners to bring anyone in to play for a loser. Before the season there was great optimism that Chucky would be a major draw for talent - all the players would love to play for Gruden, right? Now he’s seemingly lost the locker room, the Cooper deal (which is the best move he’s made, btw and I wonder if this was a Jerry Jones gift since he & Mark Davis have some kinda weird little scheming relationship) really hurt his image as a “player’s coach” since it was so poorly handled. Players were reportedly very upset to learn that a favorite player was dealt from reading about it on twitter after Chucky told them all he wasn’t dealing AC. And they wouldn’t even negotiate with Mack, which isn’t an awesome message to send to the league about how they’ll be handled if they play for the Raiders.
I am not a Raiders hater - in fact many of my friends, including my best friend, are die-hard Raiders fans, and I root for them to do well because people are happier in the Bay Area when their teams do well. So I don’t think I’ve overstated any of this, nor do I feel I’m being unfair here with my observations. But overall, looking at the big picture, I don’t see how this is a competent rebuild.
It seems hasty & poorly planned, shipping off the best two dynasty assets for a pocket full of magic beans (draft picks) that might take 2 years of drafting perfectly to build a winner. And when was the last time any team had 2 perfect drafts? When was the last time Gruden or Reggie had a perfect draft?
I just don’t get it at all.
I see Raiders fans have moved on from “denial” to “acceptance” in their stages of grief, which is good...healing.
But I do have questions.
Like, if this is a rebuilding franchise being set up to win in Las Vegas, why trade Mack? Why trade Amari Cooper? Yes, I get it - they’re expensive. All star players are expensive. Age + talent makes these two players guys that you rebuild around.
Havig Mack + Cooper in Vegas would seem like a far better nucleus to build a winning franchise around than what they’ve got now, which is basically retread crap.
Also, if they’re rebuilding & that was the whole plan all along, why go out and get Jordy Nelson? Why piss away a 3rd round pick on Martaviou Bryant (who was worth a 5th at best, and probably shoulda been conditional on his not failing another pee test)? Those two moves said “we want to win now!” pretty loud & clear. You don’t bring in an aging FA WR to rebuild. And Martavius Bryant isn’t a piece that you rebuild around - so why overpay for him? And why act like your plan is to win-now from draft day through about week 2 if the plan was to blow it all up? This felt like the Raiders changed horses in the middle of the stream after they couldn’t get Mack signed.
Why send that 2nd rounder back to the Bears if your plan is to tank? The Bears are going to be rofl when they’re on the clock in 2020 picking somewhere in the top 5. How does that happen if the Raiders are putting everything into rebuilding? Wouldn’t those 2nd & 5th round picks be super valuable to the Raiders in 2020 since they’re rebuilding? I fail to grasp the long-game genius supposedly on display by that grossly incompetent deal.
If they’re doing the long-game rebuild, why didn’t they deal Carr? Dude’s best years are going to be wasted as a punching bag behind a crap OL with a receiving corps devoid of talent.
How long of a long-game is this rebuild gonna be, exactly? Because looking at the Raiders, I see holes at
• OL (most of it)
• DT
• LB
• WR
• RB
• FB
• Secondary (CB, SS, FS)
• maybe even QB (I remain unconvinced Carr hasn’t turned into David from the hits/hurries/injuries)
That’s a hell of a lot of holes regardless of how many draft picks they have.
Which leads me to my final question/concern here: knowing the Raiders can’t fill all these holes in 2019’s draft, how will the Raiders attract any talent? As a fan of the team across the bay, I can tell you first hand how difficult it was for the Niners to bring anyone in to play for a loser. Before the season there was great optimism that Chucky would be a major draw for talent - all the players would love to play for Gruden, right? Now he’s seemingly lost the locker room, the Cooper deal (which is the best move he’s made, btw and I wonder if this was a Jerry Jones gift since he & Mark Davis have some kinda weird little scheming relationship) really hurt his image as a “player’s coach” since it was so poorly handled. Players were reportedly very upset to learn that a favorite player was dealt from reading about it on twitter after Chucky told them all he wasn’t dealing AC. And they wouldn’t even negotiate with Mack, which isn’t an awesome message to send to the league about how they’ll be handled if they play for the Raiders.
I am not a Raiders hater - in fact many of my friends, including my best friend, are die-hard Raiders fans, and I root for them to do well because people are happier in the Bay Area when their teams do well. So I don’t think I’ve overstated any of this, nor do I feel I’m being unfair here with my observations. But overall, looking at the big picture, I don’t see how this is a competent rebuild.
It seems hasty & poorly planned, shipping off the best two dynasty assets for a pocket full of magic beans (draft picks) that might take 2 years of drafting perfectly to build a winner. And when was the last time any team had 2 perfect drafts? When was the last time Gruden or Reggie had a perfect draft?
I just don’t get it at all.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I commented on the Garçon TD on the first drive that it looked like they covered Garçon with the ghost of retired DRC.
babydemon90
Footballguy
babydemon90
Footballguy
The Cooper trade I get. Getting a first back for him was a good deal. The Mack trade - not so much. That's a player you have retire as a Raider if you can.
Manster
Footballguy
Chuckie has a grand plan to build this team his way....it started with the Mack trade.....he is stockpiling picks and thinking longterm....tanking this season included....number one pick sounds pretty sweet at this point....I don't really have a dog in the race, but I feel bad for Oakland fans.....crappy way to end it there.
joey
Footballguy
I think the toughest thing for Raiders fans was coming into this season with thoughts of competing NOW, getting back to the magic of the 2016 season where we were *this close* to something very special, all the energy and talk from Gruden of bringing the Raiders back to being a playoff team.
Then that was quickly squashed with the pre-season offensive play ("hmm...something doesn't look right hear. Must be they're just learning Gruden's complex system") and then the Mack trade was the ultimate punch in the gut.
If Gruden would've just toned down the rah-rah rhetoric when he joined the Raiders and talked about a bit of a rebuild from the beginning, we wouldn't have been built up so high and fallen so far. What a roller coaster in the past 6 months.
(of course, if I'm forgetting quotes from Gruden where he was preaching "rebuild", maybe I just have selective memory. please remind me if so)
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Like I said - that AC deal was the best move Gru made because it was insanity by the Cowboys to pay draft day value for a dice roll WR who might still be worthy of it.
But ironically that might also be Gru’s worst move since he ambushed the locker room with it, killing team chemistry and losing their trust, while telegraphing to the league (e.g. potential FA’s) what might happen if they come to the Raiders.
I still have no idea how the Cowboys overpaid so dramatically there, but I suspect there’s some back room ### for tat scheming going on. Jerry Jones sure does a lot of stuff to help the Raiders - makes me wonder if this is some kind of payback for Mark going to Vegas instead of SoCal.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
So why is Derrick Carr still a Raider?Manster said:
If this is a complete rebuild, he’s an expensive, wasted piece who will have been completely wasted while the team around him is torn down & built up.
ICON211
Footballguy
Gruden is going to keep saying Carr is my Guy...but he'll slowly make Carr go mad by noticing the team true intentions of Tanking ...Last night was the worse football Ive ever seen from a Pro Squad ...
Gruden is going to absorb all of the negativity from blowing this ship up and then just do his own thing next season.....sucks if your a player on this Team right now
Gruden is going to absorb all of the negativity from blowing this ship up and then just do his own thing next season.....sucks if your a player on this Team right now
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Right - I get that. But he’s healthy/vertical now. Surely Jacksonville or some other win-now QB-needy team woulda coughed up some draft picks.
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
The more last night sinks in, the worse it feels. Worst team in football
and gruden is lying his ### off as usual. “Lots of players want to come play for the raiders”. What a joke.
and gruden is lying his ### off as usual. “Lots of players want to come play for the raiders”. What a joke.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
Agree with this -- it's hardest to go from a 10 win team with a promising threesome of Carr/Cooper/Mack to only 1 of those guys remaining in a complete rebuild that threw us back more than 5 years.joey said:
How long is this team going to continue to rebuild?
We're only Year 1 into Gruden's regime, and if anyone thought he wouldn't have designs on remolding the team in his vision through roster turnover, than it may have been a naive approach. But no one expected this level of turnover so fast and so soon.
The positive is that we are ripping off band aids early and often to potentially shorten the window of turnaround - so many draft picks now means that we can put that talent to use right away in 1-2 years instead of building over 2-4 years.
Downside is the swirling distaste -- for fans, the players themselves -- in this approach in the meantime. It's clearly having a negative locker room and on-field impact which is clearly not good for Gruden, IMHO, of building trust in the process. My own faith has been shaken seeing this team so completely fall apart.
That level of sucktitude hurts to see, but not totally surprising given what Gruden & Co are doing. And they need to be MUCH better building trust in these actions right away.
I will be willing to see what happens this coming year and into our Las Vegas days before writing off this approach entirely. But I will absolutely be holding this franchise accountable in the meantime if we are not addressing the negativity as it shows up from players and from play, and in turning this around more immediately given the aggressive moves we're making.
Aznflyer14
Footballguy
I dont necessarily disagree with this statement. I merely was stating that Raiders' OL is terrible and Tom Cable does not have a great history in developing OL (i.e. Seahawks). However, Paul Guenther does have good history in developing and sustaining defensive team. I'm sure you will agree with this... Raiders sorely lack talent across the team especially after trading away once-a-generation edge rusher in Khalil Mack.DocHolliday said:
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
This perfectly captures the narrative of those still wearing rose-colored glasses. The point about the Raiders not being a dynasty (or playoff caliber team) prior to Gruden's arrival is based on a false choice. This isn't a binary choice of either a team is a championship caliber team or a complete dumpster fire. A team can be in a rebuild AND be competitive. These are not mutually exclusive concepts. Say what you will about Del Rio, at least Raiders were competitive under his leadership.ICON211 said:
To the second point about Gruden's plan, the presumption is that he will select studs with these #1s and his lesser picks. Just look at his track record in Tampa, he had 7 or 8 years of personnel decisions and did not pick 1elite player during that span. If that isn't discouraging enough the glimpse of his 2018 picks this year is not encouraging. In fact it is alarming, and a foreboding of things to come. Go back in this thread and read all the posts fawning over Hall, Hurst and Key. These guys are having zero impact on the defense. Sure it is early but I would at least expect to see a glimpse of their promised potential at this point.
How about the people fawning over the selection of a punter in round 5? That has been a complete joke.
Looking back at all the things that Gruden said about Mack and Cooper now look like bold faced lies. At this point I believe nothing that comes out of his pie hole. I found this video about Gruden being untrustworthy very accurate to of what I have seen so far: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bp7Qvuybqww Based on Gruden's track record if I were Gunther I would be very nervous right now, despite what Gruden just said.
Gruden is a clown. Open your eyes.
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Chaka
Footballguy
I have to take exception to this. I would be concerned if we had Mack, and Irvin was actually on the field and this was their level of play but these guys were just thrown to the wolves.
Throw in, likely, substandard coaching, a full blown hellfire sale and a toxic locker room and it's clear they never stood a chance.
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
You didn’t really address the bolded, you only made excuses. Tell me what positives you see from Gruden’s first draft class since his return? Soeaking of a toxic locker room, that was one good thing JDR changed. This team had over a decade of that environment before JDR. Gruden took less than a year to wipe that away.
Like I said before, open your eyes.
Like I said before, open your eyes.
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RaiderBones
Footballguy
11 max.Max Power said:
Cold Dead Hands
Footballguy
There is a silver lining in all of this. I now know which QBs to start in daily fantasy.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
And which defenses to stream in leagues. Car is getting sacked a ton and the Raiders are not scoring points.
Chaka
Footballguy
I am as pessimistic as anybody about what is going on in Oakland but Idid address it properly. Context is important.
Was the expectation that 2nd, 4th & 5th round defensive linemen we're going to come in and dominate the league from the jump? That's crazy.
When they were drafted the expectation was that they would compliment the edge play of Mack (some would say Irvin too but I have always contended he is very overrated and his play time reflects that). And that Mack's presence would allow them to shine. Did your expectations not change after the Mack trade?
I have no idea how good this draft class is and neither does anyone else. Two years ago the Rams were the worst team in the league, coaching makes a world of difference. Cable, Guenther, Olsen we're all questionable hires to begin with. Gruden is looking like the game has passed him by too.
But it's only been half a season, heck **** Vermeil won 9 games in his first two seasons with the Rams. How about we give it more than 8 games to decide in the ability of this draft class?
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/11/02/jon-gruden-oakland-raiders-derek-carr/
Kurtenbach: Jon Gruden has shredded his last bit of credibility
This Raiders season has provided little — if any — joy on the field.
But as this team bottoms out, there is one thing I have found to be truly competent and enjoyable about the Raiders’ season: Jon Gruden’s film breakdowns on the team-produced Silver and Black Show.
I’m not even half-joking.
While Gruden’s press conferences are sometimes interesting and certainly informative (so long as you don’t need any day-to-day information), they’ve also become combative, uncomfortable, delusional, and depressing.
But when Gruden does his five-to-ten-minute breakdowns of the pertinent All-22 film for the week’s game, I can’t look away. They’re really good.
And about halfway through every segment, without fail, you can see Gruden — who usually starts in an I-can’t-believe-I-gotta-waste-my-time-doing-this funk — flip a switch.
He starts to feel it. His eyes light up and he usually starts bantering with the host, Raiders radio sideline reporter Chris Townsend. (This week he paused some video of George Kittle and asked “Towny” if he thought the 49ers’ tight end scored on the play – the host guessed incorrectly. “You gotta get more tape,” Gruden zinged. Great stuff.)
Gruden’s unparalleled charisma and charm — rarely seen around Alameda these days (when it does show up in pressers, it comes across as parodic) — re-emerges in those clips.
And that makes sense, right? Those videos are the kind of things Gruden has been doing for the last decade. That’s his wheelhouse. It’s what he’s good at. There’s a reason he was ESPN’s highest-paid on-air talent.
But halfway through his first season in charge, there is no evidence that he is good at the thing the Raiders are reportedly paying him $100 million to do: coach the team.
In fact, the evidence is mounting that this whole peculiar arrangement was a catastrophic mistake.
On Thursday night, Gruden’s team was annihilated by one of the two other teams in the NFL with one win to their name — a team that has lost not one, but two, games to the lowly Arizona Cardinals.
The Raiders were schooled by the 49ers in all three phases of the game Thursday. The beat-down was so comprehensive — so embarrassing — that the NFL should have invoked the mercy rule early in the third quarter.
Sure enough, the Raiders subbed in backup quarterback A.J. McCarron and a bunch of other second-stringers late in the game, but the Niners couldn’t match that garbage-time tactic: their third-string quarterback was the one who authored the blowout.
Football is a complicated game, but this is empirical: When you let Nick Mullens and that banged-up, out-of-sync, searching-for-confidence Niners team beat you 34-3, you shred the last bit of credibility you have as a coach.
And to build it back to a point of respectability could take years.
Though there’s every reason to seriously question if he’ll ever come close.
Good thing Gruden has 152 games remaining on his contract.
This Raiders team isn’t merely a tire fire — its an entire landfill is engulfed in flames and Gruden is holding the gasoline and matches team owner Mark Davis handed him.
I’ve seen and covered a lot of bad, dysfunctional football teams in my day. Hell, I covered a Florida Atlantic team that fired its coach because he was snorting cocaine in Key West during the bye week.
But, I swear, this Raiders team — particularly after Thursday — could give any of those rotten teams (there were too many to count) a run for their money.
Because at least that mess of a team at Florida Atlanta beat Nick Mullens that season.
Gruden’s defenders — who disproportionately seem to be either on the Raiders’ payroll or fanatical past the point of saving — will point out that the coach-slash-defacto general manager has a ton of salary cap space and five first-round picks to work with over the next two seasons.
These are the lumps you have to take for future success, they’ll say.
That’s an easy sell to those who have already converted and are regularly tithing.
But I’ve worked in construction, doing demolition. I can tear out drywall and strip flooring with the best of ‘em. I’d never allege that I can build you a house, though.
The same logic should apply to Gruden: We know he can tear it down — to pawn Amari Cooper for a first-round pick was no doubt a good bit of business — but, pardon the unintentional meta-commentary, that’s the easy part.
It’s exponentially more difficult to build.
And can any of those Gruden defenders point to a single piece of evidence that shows that this guy can coach those young, talented rookies and free agents when they join the team?
After all, he’s proven incapable of coaching the team he has now.
Wishful thinking can go a long way, but it doesn’t win games in the NFL — it gets you embarrassed.
When Gruden took the Raiders’ job, the warning that emanated from those who remembered his previous NFL job in Tampa Bay was loud and clear: you can let him cook the meal, but don’t let him buy the groceries.
Also, he might not be a great cook.
In other words: If you’re going to be so bold as to let him coach this team, don’t also let him pick the players. The drafts he led in Tampa Bay are still legendary in league circles — for all the wrong reasons — and his desire to sign over-the-hill veterans bordered on obsession.
His GM work alone should have been enough to be extremely skeptical of the hire. Add in his decade away from the sidelines, and you have a whole other problem.
Being a coach or a GM in the NFL is a grind — you get hours, not days, off. The league is constantly changing and will gladly leave anyone who isn’t fully committed, day-in, day-out behind.
Gruden says he never left the game, but he certainly left the grind of both jobs for a decade.
Take a year off? Fine. That’s probably good for a coach or GM’s longevity. But a decade? From his strip mall office in Tampa Bay, Gruden could have seen the entire rise and fall of Blackberry (whose sales peaked in 2010).
Gruden unquestionably works his ### off now, but this isn’t like riding a bicycle. Both of his jobs have changed drastically since he last time he wasn’t all that good at them.
And while the coach has made some concessions, some adaptations — shorter play calls, a practice-field DJ during camp (he called the latter “analytics”) — it doesn’t seem like the 10 years away from the grind changed Gruden’s personality or demeanor much.
According to a Sports Illustrated article that talked to a number of Gruden’s former players in Tampa Bay, “Gruden’s stubbornness, hubris, and occasional disingenuousness could sometimes color their relations with an otherwise likable guy and brilliant football mind.”
Ding. Ding. Ding.
History truly repeats itself: In Gruden, we have a coach whose veteran-heavy team was, at first, undisciplined and underperforming and now isn’t interested in playing hard for him, and a general manager who now needs to build through the draft, despite the fact that he has no desire or patience to coach young players and he has a laughable draft track record (which now includes the 2018 edition, when he made at least two picks on the basis of the position).
But sure, feel free to let this charlatan dupe you into thinking things will get better.
(And while you’re at it, buy a Las Vegas personal seat license!)
I can understand how Raiders owner Mark Davis was duped. Gruden is charming as hell when there are no stakes involved, and he strung Davis along for six years, stoking false Grumors that artificially drove up his price, and then pouncing when his ESPN situation didn’t seem totally stable and Davis was at his most desperate. In turn, Gruden landed the most outlandish coaching contract in the NFL. Masterful stuff, if we’re being honest.
I can understand why the veterans Gruden signed before this season started were duped, too. Gruden came in with a win-now mentality and he had no problem speaking to it.
Then, Gruden actually started coaching the team he assembled (no team had more year-to-year turnover than the Raiders this past offseason) and he changed his mind. Gruden quit on his team before the season started — of course this team quit on him. Frankly, it’s amazing it took this long.
And I fully understand why the media — myself included — thought, even if just for a second, that this ludicrous experiment could work. We had forgotten how Gruden left Tampa Bay, and we remembered how good these Raiders were in 2016. When Gruden took the job, this was a team that seemed to be on the brink of playoff contention. Get Derek Carr right and the sky was the limit for this team.
No matter what you want to believe today, the truth is that Gruden didn’t step into a massive rebuilding project — he decided to make it one and no one stopped him.
But whether the rebuild eventually works or Gruden continues to flounder while blaming everyone else but himself along the way, I know that he’ll get paid the full amount of his contract.
All Gruden has done with the benefit of the doubt over the last 10 months is made his defenders look like fools. There’s no reason to give it to him anymore.
Make him earn it.
Or, better yet, if you can, don’t even bother to care.
Because by the time Gruden could theoretically, possibly, turn this franchise around, it will be long gone from the Bay Area.
So much for leaving on good terms.
Kurtenbach: Jon Gruden has shredded his last bit of credibility
This Raiders season has provided little — if any — joy on the field.
But as this team bottoms out, there is one thing I have found to be truly competent and enjoyable about the Raiders’ season: Jon Gruden’s film breakdowns on the team-produced Silver and Black Show.
I’m not even half-joking.
While Gruden’s press conferences are sometimes interesting and certainly informative (so long as you don’t need any day-to-day information), they’ve also become combative, uncomfortable, delusional, and depressing.
But when Gruden does his five-to-ten-minute breakdowns of the pertinent All-22 film for the week’s game, I can’t look away. They’re really good.
And about halfway through every segment, without fail, you can see Gruden — who usually starts in an I-can’t-believe-I-gotta-waste-my-time-doing-this funk — flip a switch.
He starts to feel it. His eyes light up and he usually starts bantering with the host, Raiders radio sideline reporter Chris Townsend. (This week he paused some video of George Kittle and asked “Towny” if he thought the 49ers’ tight end scored on the play – the host guessed incorrectly. “You gotta get more tape,” Gruden zinged. Great stuff.)
Gruden’s unparalleled charisma and charm — rarely seen around Alameda these days (when it does show up in pressers, it comes across as parodic) — re-emerges in those clips.
And that makes sense, right? Those videos are the kind of things Gruden has been doing for the last decade. That’s his wheelhouse. It’s what he’s good at. There’s a reason he was ESPN’s highest-paid on-air talent.
But halfway through his first season in charge, there is no evidence that he is good at the thing the Raiders are reportedly paying him $100 million to do: coach the team.
In fact, the evidence is mounting that this whole peculiar arrangement was a catastrophic mistake.
On Thursday night, Gruden’s team was annihilated by one of the two other teams in the NFL with one win to their name — a team that has lost not one, but two, games to the lowly Arizona Cardinals.
The Raiders were schooled by the 49ers in all three phases of the game Thursday. The beat-down was so comprehensive — so embarrassing — that the NFL should have invoked the mercy rule early in the third quarter.
Sure enough, the Raiders subbed in backup quarterback A.J. McCarron and a bunch of other second-stringers late in the game, but the Niners couldn’t match that garbage-time tactic: their third-string quarterback was the one who authored the blowout.
Football is a complicated game, but this is empirical: When you let Nick Mullens and that banged-up, out-of-sync, searching-for-confidence Niners team beat you 34-3, you shred the last bit of credibility you have as a coach.
And to build it back to a point of respectability could take years.
Though there’s every reason to seriously question if he’ll ever come close.
Good thing Gruden has 152 games remaining on his contract.
This Raiders team isn’t merely a tire fire — its an entire landfill is engulfed in flames and Gruden is holding the gasoline and matches team owner Mark Davis handed him.
I’ve seen and covered a lot of bad, dysfunctional football teams in my day. Hell, I covered a Florida Atlantic team that fired its coach because he was snorting cocaine in Key West during the bye week.
But, I swear, this Raiders team — particularly after Thursday — could give any of those rotten teams (there were too many to count) a run for their money.
Because at least that mess of a team at Florida Atlanta beat Nick Mullens that season.
Gruden’s defenders — who disproportionately seem to be either on the Raiders’ payroll or fanatical past the point of saving — will point out that the coach-slash-defacto general manager has a ton of salary cap space and five first-round picks to work with over the next two seasons.
These are the lumps you have to take for future success, they’ll say.
That’s an easy sell to those who have already converted and are regularly tithing.
But I’ve worked in construction, doing demolition. I can tear out drywall and strip flooring with the best of ‘em. I’d never allege that I can build you a house, though.
The same logic should apply to Gruden: We know he can tear it down — to pawn Amari Cooper for a first-round pick was no doubt a good bit of business — but, pardon the unintentional meta-commentary, that’s the easy part.
It’s exponentially more difficult to build.
And can any of those Gruden defenders point to a single piece of evidence that shows that this guy can coach those young, talented rookies and free agents when they join the team?
After all, he’s proven incapable of coaching the team he has now.
Wishful thinking can go a long way, but it doesn’t win games in the NFL — it gets you embarrassed.
When Gruden took the Raiders’ job, the warning that emanated from those who remembered his previous NFL job in Tampa Bay was loud and clear: you can let him cook the meal, but don’t let him buy the groceries.
Also, he might not be a great cook.
In other words: If you’re going to be so bold as to let him coach this team, don’t also let him pick the players. The drafts he led in Tampa Bay are still legendary in league circles — for all the wrong reasons — and his desire to sign over-the-hill veterans bordered on obsession.
His GM work alone should have been enough to be extremely skeptical of the hire. Add in his decade away from the sidelines, and you have a whole other problem.
Being a coach or a GM in the NFL is a grind — you get hours, not days, off. The league is constantly changing and will gladly leave anyone who isn’t fully committed, day-in, day-out behind.
Gruden says he never left the game, but he certainly left the grind of both jobs for a decade.
Take a year off? Fine. That’s probably good for a coach or GM’s longevity. But a decade? From his strip mall office in Tampa Bay, Gruden could have seen the entire rise and fall of Blackberry (whose sales peaked in 2010).
Gruden unquestionably works his ### off now, but this isn’t like riding a bicycle. Both of his jobs have changed drastically since he last time he wasn’t all that good at them.
And while the coach has made some concessions, some adaptations — shorter play calls, a practice-field DJ during camp (he called the latter “analytics”) — it doesn’t seem like the 10 years away from the grind changed Gruden’s personality or demeanor much.
According to a Sports Illustrated article that talked to a number of Gruden’s former players in Tampa Bay, “Gruden’s stubbornness, hubris, and occasional disingenuousness could sometimes color their relations with an otherwise likable guy and brilliant football mind.”
Ding. Ding. Ding.
History truly repeats itself: In Gruden, we have a coach whose veteran-heavy team was, at first, undisciplined and underperforming and now isn’t interested in playing hard for him, and a general manager who now needs to build through the draft, despite the fact that he has no desire or patience to coach young players and he has a laughable draft track record (which now includes the 2018 edition, when he made at least two picks on the basis of the position).
But sure, feel free to let this charlatan dupe you into thinking things will get better.
(And while you’re at it, buy a Las Vegas personal seat license!)
I can understand how Raiders owner Mark Davis was duped. Gruden is charming as hell when there are no stakes involved, and he strung Davis along for six years, stoking false Grumors that artificially drove up his price, and then pouncing when his ESPN situation didn’t seem totally stable and Davis was at his most desperate. In turn, Gruden landed the most outlandish coaching contract in the NFL. Masterful stuff, if we’re being honest.
I can understand why the veterans Gruden signed before this season started were duped, too. Gruden came in with a win-now mentality and he had no problem speaking to it.
Then, Gruden actually started coaching the team he assembled (no team had more year-to-year turnover than the Raiders this past offseason) and he changed his mind. Gruden quit on his team before the season started — of course this team quit on him. Frankly, it’s amazing it took this long.
And I fully understand why the media — myself included — thought, even if just for a second, that this ludicrous experiment could work. We had forgotten how Gruden left Tampa Bay, and we remembered how good these Raiders were in 2016. When Gruden took the job, this was a team that seemed to be on the brink of playoff contention. Get Derek Carr right and the sky was the limit for this team.
No matter what you want to believe today, the truth is that Gruden didn’t step into a massive rebuilding project — he decided to make it one and no one stopped him.
But whether the rebuild eventually works or Gruden continues to flounder while blaming everyone else but himself along the way, I know that he’ll get paid the full amount of his contract.
All Gruden has done with the benefit of the doubt over the last 10 months is made his defenders look like fools. There’s no reason to give it to him anymore.
Make him earn it.
Or, better yet, if you can, don’t even bother to care.
Because by the time Gruden could theoretically, possibly, turn this franchise around, it will be long gone from the Bay Area.
So much for leaving on good terms.
Chaka
Footballguy
Chaka
Footballguy
R
Cold Dead Hands
Footballguy
ICON211
Footballguy
jtp1982
Footballguy
They’re too deep into a rebuild to stop short at this point IMO so you gotta replace Carr, probably with a first round draft pick.
Verdict’s out on Gruden and if they are building this team from the draft (which seems pretty clear), the verdicts gonna be out for a couple more years as the draft picks play out.
I kind of like Gruden, not sure if it’ll work or if he’s still a good coach but we’ll see.
That said, just landed some free Ravens Raiders tickets from a buddy and I’ll probably end up getting drunk and yelling “Gruden’s dumpster fire” as often as possible. Nothing against Gruden, drunken verbal harassment is just my duty as Ravens fan.
Verdict’s out on Gruden and if they are building this team from the draft (which seems pretty clear), the verdicts gonna be out for a couple more years as the draft picks play out.
I kind of like Gruden, not sure if it’ll work or if he’s still a good coach but we’ll see.
That said, just landed some free Ravens Raiders tickets from a buddy and I’ll probably end up getting drunk and yelling “Gruden’s dumpster fire” as often as possible. Nothing against Gruden, drunken verbal harassment is just my duty as Ravens fan.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
To be fair. The entire starting lineup was on the injury report going into the game with the one exception being the 3rd string RT who is playing after the 1st and 2nd are now out. Then they lost the LT and had to shift players over to get a full line out there. So, Osemele was playing LT (banged up- out of position), with Feliciano coming in at LG (banged up), Hudson (banged up), Jackson (banged up) and I think we finished the game with Silberman (5th string?) at RT. There are not many (any I would say) teams that could survive that happening to their line.
That all being said, the one biggest coaching hire I was not happy about was Cable. He is a ZBS guy and our O-line which we KNOW the middle is talented is obviously built for a power scheme. I think Cable is a good line coach but to me, it seems a clear mismatch of talent and scheme.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
First game I got to watch this season. ?
Our defense has no excuses and was absolutely ridiculously bad. Sure, Nelson is old but he is suppose to know this system and be a vet- how does he end up so badly out of position on every snap he takes? I really did not see a bright spot when it came to D. Horrible. I thought freaking Hall, Hurst and Key were really showing promise.... did they break that promise or what? I saw nothing.
Offense was decent until the problems with the Oline and the D just giving up every TD just got the game away from them.
I have no reason to expect Carr not to be with the team next year but hell I had no reason to expect us not having Mack and Cooper on the team be the end of this season just a few months ago.
So, next year. It is looking like we will end up with # 1 overall. After that I am thinking a mid round pick from Dallas (15-20 area) and Chicago has such an easy schedule and is getting half way decent play out of their QB so they are looking to be a playoff team now, so then a late 20 pick.
I think Bosa will end up being the #1 assuming they like him like everyone else does and he is the best defensive player. I expect them to target D players obviously but I also think that Reggie will work towards the board that he and Gruden put together. We will push $100 million in cap space too now so they will be active in FA going after the players that they want. Hopefully that ends up being a lot better outcome then all the FA's we got this last off season.
SIgh. This year really hurts. More so than the previous years of losing because in those previous years there was only a little bit of hope. We had so much hope with a young team going 12-4..... then Del Rio destroyed the chemistry of the team and Gruden has come in with dynamite and now every fan in the league can have a bad game or year and think "Well, at least I am not a Raider fan"
Our defense has no excuses and was absolutely ridiculously bad. Sure, Nelson is old but he is suppose to know this system and be a vet- how does he end up so badly out of position on every snap he takes? I really did not see a bright spot when it came to D. Horrible. I thought freaking Hall, Hurst and Key were really showing promise.... did they break that promise or what? I saw nothing.
Offense was decent until the problems with the Oline and the D just giving up every TD just got the game away from them.
I have no reason to expect Carr not to be with the team next year but hell I had no reason to expect us not having Mack and Cooper on the team be the end of this season just a few months ago.
So, next year. It is looking like we will end up with # 1 overall. After that I am thinking a mid round pick from Dallas (15-20 area) and Chicago has such an easy schedule and is getting half way decent play out of their QB so they are looking to be a playoff team now, so then a late 20 pick.
I think Bosa will end up being the #1 assuming they like him like everyone else does and he is the best defensive player. I expect them to target D players obviously but I also think that Reggie will work towards the board that he and Gruden put together. We will push $100 million in cap space too now so they will be active in FA going after the players that they want. Hopefully that ends up being a lot better outcome then all the FA's we got this last off season.
SIgh. This year really hurts. More so than the previous years of losing because in those previous years there was only a little bit of hope. We had so much hope with a young team going 12-4..... then Del Rio destroyed the chemistry of the team and Gruden has come in with dynamite and now every fan in the league can have a bad game or year and think "Well, at least I am not a Raider fan"
