This seems as good a move as any to go ahead and start the 2011 thread with.
Julio signed to a minor league deal
Julio signed to a minor league deal
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***Official Pittsburgh Pirates 2011 Thread*** (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Drunken Cowboy
- Start date
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Ordered my 10 game ticket package. 
monessen
Footballguy
Clint Hurdle's first mini-camp meeting report---
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11011/1116986-63.stm
As you can read, Hurdle plans to emphasize the "basic fundamentals" early on. Great idea. No word yet on when the team will address the "complex fundamentals" or the "fundamental basics."
Recently, the Bucs traded Joe Martinez. They are scheduled to receive either a player in return or cash. What are the odds on cash?
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11011/1116986-63.stm
As you can read, Hurdle plans to emphasize the "basic fundamentals" early on. Great idea. No word yet on when the team will address the "complex fundamentals" or the "fundamental basics."
Recently, the Bucs traded Joe Martinez. They are scheduled to receive either a player in return or cash. What are the odds on cash?
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
We yearn for the days
When our players did cocaine
At least they were good
When our players did cocaine
At least they were good
Balco
Footballguy
I think the offense makes progress this year. Tabata, mcCutcheon, Walker, and Alvarez should all improve (watch Alvarez, at every stop he has been at, it take him about a half year to put it all together. I expect him to make a significant jump this year).
But it is going to be another long year with that pitching staff. Pirates fans just have to hope the talentend pitchers they have in the low minors stay healthy. I am interested to see James McDonald play a full season as a starter. Very intriguing, has talent, could develop into a solid starter.
But it is going to be another long year with that pitching staff. Pirates fans just have to hope the talentend pitchers they have in the low minors stay healthy. I am interested to see James McDonald play a full season as a starter. Very intriguing, has talent, could develop into a solid starter.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Balco
Footballguy
This is an encouraging block in the link:"While Pittsburgh's 2010 Opening Day payroll of $35 million was the lowest in the majors, the club once again spent significant money at the amateur level. Coonelly helped enforce the informal slotting system when he worked for MLB, but in his three years as president, the Pirates have led all of baseball by spending $30.7 million on draft bonuses.
That includes $11.9 million in 2010, a franchise record and just $27,000 shy of the all-time draft mark the Nationals set last summer. Pittsburgh gave No. 2 overall pick Jameson Taillon $6.5 million, the second-largest bonus in draft history, and paid second-rounder Stetson Allie $2.25 million, nearly as much as it gave No. 4 overall choice Tony Sanchez a year earlier. The Pirates also signed Mexican righthander Luis Heredia for $2.6 million, shattering the team's previous international record of $400,000 given to Venezuelan outfielder Exicardo Cayonez in 2008."
That is doing it the right way. It is going to pay dividends in the coming years.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
The projected 2014 line-up looked nice (if those guys don't end up sucking)
Balco
Footballguy
A couple will definitely not pan out. But they only need 2 or 3 to be hits. Then you have very affordable players under team control for several years. For small market teams, spending money on the draft and international free agents is the best way to build a team.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
The problem is the Pirates keep getting rid of talent as it reaches maturity. By the time any of these guys are any good The Pirates will likely have traded McCutheon, Tabata, Walker and Alvarez to the Yankees or Red Sox for 12 minor leaguer RHPs.
monessen
Footballguy
This is sort of an obligatory article on the Pirates in the Pgh Post-Gazette today. I suppose they figured, given all the Penguins and Steelers coverage, they needed to do a Bucco piece just to finally insert one above the hunting and fishing report.
Anyway, it deals with Lyle Overpay's decision to join the team. The Pirates will be Overpay's 4th team in the past decade.
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11016/1118175-63.stm
Please note the comments near the end by Hurdle discussing how difficult it is to recruit free agents to Pittsburgh, perhaps the only really intriguing and underdeveloped portion of the article.
Anyway, it deals with Lyle Overpay's decision to join the team. The Pirates will be Overpay's 4th team in the past decade.
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11016/1118175-63.stm
Please note the comments near the end by Hurdle discussing how difficult it is to recruit free agents to Pittsburgh, perhaps the only really intriguing and underdeveloped portion of the article.
Copeman
Footballguy
"The Pirates today agreed to terms with right-handed relief pitcher Joel Hanrahan on a contract for the 2011 season, avoiding salary arbitration.
Terms of the deal were not released.
Hanrahan, 29, went 4-1 with six saves and a 3.62 ERA in a career-high 72 appearances with the Pirates last season. He also struck out a career-high 100 batters while working 69.2 innings.
Hanrahan ranked fourth among all Major League relief pitchers in strikeouts in 2010 and became the first Pirates reliever with at least 100 K's in a season since Don Robinson whiffed 101 in 1984."
Terms of the deal were not released.
Hanrahan, 29, went 4-1 with six saves and a 3.62 ERA in a career-high 72 appearances with the Pirates last season. He also struck out a career-high 100 batters while working 69.2 innings.
Hanrahan ranked fourth among all Major League relief pitchers in strikeouts in 2010 and became the first Pirates reliever with at least 100 K's in a season since Don Robinson whiffed 101 in 1984."
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
FYI, the Twins signed Matt Capps to a one year $7M+ deal.
Eephus
Footballguy
Good Nathan insurance.
monessen
Footballguy
Good for Capps. Am sorry the Pirates didn't want to deal him since they didn't want to go to arbitration with him, but the GM is still in over his head.
Am sure neither the Bucs nor Hanrahan wanted arbitration. The timing of the Pirates' signing of Veras the other day as a possible set-up man had to impact (as in squeeze) whatever Hanrahan was looking for in salary.
Martin Prado signed with the Braves for 3.1 million for this season. He can play several positions. Lyle Overpay is getting 5 million. Overpay will be 34 years old next week and is a DH/1B. His slugging percentage, OPS, and batting average were well below Prado's in 2010 despite Prado's injuries. Lyle K'ed 131 times in 607 ABs. Prado struck out 86 times in 599 ABs.
I think the Prado-Overbay comparison underscores how the Bucs have to overpay certain free agents in order to get them to play in the Steel City. Hurdle is correct.
Am sure neither the Bucs nor Hanrahan wanted arbitration. The timing of the Pirates' signing of Veras the other day as a possible set-up man had to impact (as in squeeze) whatever Hanrahan was looking for in salary.
Martin Prado signed with the Braves for 3.1 million for this season. He can play several positions. Lyle Overpay is getting 5 million. Overpay will be 34 years old next week and is a DH/1B. His slugging percentage, OPS, and batting average were well below Prado's in 2010 despite Prado's injuries. Lyle K'ed 131 times in 607 ABs. Prado struck out 86 times in 599 ABs.
I think the Prado-Overbay comparison underscores how the Bucs have to overpay certain free agents in order to get them to play in the Steel City. Hurdle is correct.
dparker713
Footballguy
Wow, thats a ridiculously bad comparison. Prado is in his first year of arbitration eligibility. Traditionally a player in their first arb year makes 40% of their estimated market worth, meaning Prado and the Braves settled on him being worth about 10.8 mil
monessen
Footballguy
If an individual has to make a bad comparison, it may as well be a ridiculously bad one. Go for the Gold, I say. The Black and Gold. Yeah.Anyhoo, the purpose of the message was not directly intended to be about Prado's worth. Rather, it was an illustration or continuation of the point that the Bucs, according to Hurdle (who isn't afraid to be honest), have a rough time attracting free agents. That is not a
To get a decent one, they find themselves in the paradoxical position since they are a cheap outfit of having to overpay the Overbays of MLB. Didn't a Sports Illustrated writer recently cite Kevin Correia's contract as one of the more outrageous this off-season?
Eephus
Footballguy
Correia got two years at an amount around his arbitration number. While it's possible he'll bomb in Pittsburgh, it's hard to call a 2/$8M deal for a semi-established SP outrageous.If an individual has to make a bad comparison, it may as well be a ridiculously bad one. Go for the Gold, I say. The Black and Gold. Yeah.Anyhoo, the purpose of the message was not directly intended to be about Prado's worth. Rather, it was an illustration or continuation of the point that the Bucs, according to Hurdle (who isn't afraid to be honest), have a rough time attracting free agents. That is not aTo get a decent one, they find themselves in the paradoxical position since they are a cheap outfit of having to overpay the Overbays of MLB. Didn't a Sports Illustrated writer recently cite Kevin Correia's contract as one of the more outrageous this off-season?
dparker713
Footballguy
How does the price of an arbitration player have any bearing whatsoever on the free agent acquisitions of the Pirates?Also, 5 million isn't an overpay of Overbay. he's been worth atleast that every season since he's been a full time player, save 1 injury season. Is it a great signing? No, but its hardly some gigantic waste of money.If an individual has to make a bad comparison, it may as well be a ridiculously bad one. Go for the Gold, I say. The Black and Gold. Yeah.Anyhoo, the purpose of the message was not directly intended to be about Prado's worth. Rather, it was an illustration or continuation of the point that the Bucs, according to Hurdle (who isn't afraid to be honest), have a rough time attracting free agents. That is not aTo get a decent one, they find themselves in the paradoxical position since they are a cheap outfit of having to overpay the Overbays of MLB. Didn't a Sports Illustrated writer recently cite Kevin Correia's contract as one of the more outrageous this off-season?
monessen
Footballguy
You got lefty hitters Walker, Garrett Jones, Alvarez in the middle of the lineup. Counting Overpay in the mix, and teams can stockpile lefties against the Bucs unless righty Diaz can make it through the season without injury. Of course, righty Lastings Milledge did so last year, but he and his 5-tool ability are gone. Perhaps Doumit will be history soon, too, making the 5 million dollar tradeoff of Doumit gone and Overbay added to the roster a wash. This also necessitates Chris Snyder will hit more than .169 as a Buc.
Overbay---61 homers total in 1926 ABs in the past 4 seasons and a .255 BA. 34 years old. Plus he won't have Adam Lind and Jose Bautista batting around him as in Toronto. I'll give him credit for showing up regularly. But he's in the twilight of his periodically-productive career. An upgrade over Jeff Clement? Yeah. Most players are.
No one said it was a gigantic waste of money, though he'll be earning more than most players on the team. The Bucs don't do "gigantic" and "money" in the same context. "Waste,"now, that is a different story.
Overbay---61 homers total in 1926 ABs in the past 4 seasons and a .255 BA. 34 years old. Plus he won't have Adam Lind and Jose Bautista batting around him as in Toronto. I'll give him credit for showing up regularly. But he's in the twilight of his periodically-productive career. An upgrade over Jeff Clement? Yeah. Most players are.
No one said it was a gigantic waste of money, though he'll be earning more than most players on the team. The Bucs don't do "gigantic" and "money" in the same context. "Waste,"now, that is a different story.
Eephus
Footballguy
The safest bet is neither holds the job all season
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
I think Meek performed best as the 8th inning setup man, and therefore he will go back into that role. With Hannaran striking out 100 guys last season, he can close.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Apparent interest in Armando Galarraga.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Balco
Footballguy
The Pirates really need to start talking extension with McUtcheon. Now. It is not to early at all. Tulowitzki, Braun, and Longoria all signed extensions after a year or so with their clubs. The Pirates need to show a commitment to the future. Signing McUtcheon would help. And if Alvarez has a big year (which I think he will), he is next. Identify your future, and lock them up.
monessen
Footballguy
As unbelievable as this sounds, the fan-friendly Pirates quietly announced an increase in ticket prices for 2011.
http://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2011/1/25/1955...prices-pnc-park
I guess, with the city excited about the Super Bowl and all, they'd slip this one by. With revenue sharing a bit down from before, this is one way to recoup the money. But how does one justify an increase? Granted, they are still in the low tier among teams for ticket costs, but they should be last given their constant rationale about being in a small market. They were last in wins, so how does this add up?
There have been some good posts here by Copeman and others regarding McCutcheon. I hope the sports media continues to shower praise on the guy so as to compel (if that is even conceivable) the Nuttings to pony up and pay the dude now.
http://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2011/1/25/1955...prices-pnc-park
I guess, with the city excited about the Super Bowl and all, they'd slip this one by. With revenue sharing a bit down from before, this is one way to recoup the money. But how does one justify an increase? Granted, they are still in the low tier among teams for ticket costs, but they should be last given their constant rationale about being in a small market. They were last in wins, so how does this add up?
There have been some good posts here by Copeman and others regarding McCutcheon. I hope the sports media continues to shower praise on the guy so as to compel (if that is even conceivable) the Nuttings to pony up and pay the dude now.
monessen
Footballguy
I then have to believe the Sports Illustrated writer who covers baseball doesn't understand the economics.Correia got two years at an amount around his arbitration number. While it's possible he'll bomb in Pittsburgh, it's hard to call a 2/$8M deal for a semi-established SP outrageous.If an individual has to make a bad comparison, it may as well be a ridiculously bad one. Go for the Gold, I say. The Black and Gold. Yeah.Anyhoo, the purpose of the message was not directly intended to be about Prado's worth. Rather, it was an illustration or continuation of the point that the Bucs, according to Hurdle (who isn't afraid to be honest), have a rough time attracting free agents. That is not aTo get a decent one, they find themselves in the paradoxical position since they are a cheap outfit of having to overpay the Overbays of MLB. Didn't a Sports Illustrated writer recently cite Kevin Correia's contract as one of the more outrageous this off-season?
dparker713
Footballguy
Heyman? Yeah, he's good at getting info, horrible at analysis - he doesn't understand alot of the basics of baseball.As for raising ticket prices, its only on walkup tickets and its the first increase in something like 9 years. Seems fairly reasonable.
According to Keith Law on ESPN Insider the Pirates have the 21st best farm system. "This system consists of a few high-end prospects, including three teenage power arms, followed by a dropoff. The big investment in prep arms in 2009 hasn't yielded any major prospects yet, although it's early."
monessen
Footballguy
Baloney. On both counts. Guys like Heyman are hired because they understand the basics of baseball. Correia had a bad 2010 season in a decidedly pitcher's park. I hope he turns it around, but the market for him wasn't very hot.dparker713 said:
And the only reason the ticket story isn't more of a story is because nobody cares about the Pirates. Here's one fan's take on how walk-up tickets are a hassle because they nickle and dime customers to death:
http://raisethejollyroger.com/2011/01/pira...-ticket-prices/
Dr. Awesome
Footballguy
Ooof.
dparker713
Footballguy
No, Heyman is employed because he's a good reporter. He has plenty of contacts and breaks his fair share of stories. But he's a horrible analyst. He does not understand, or fails to employ, the basic tenants of the current state of baseball analysis. Otherwise, he'd have listed every single 3 year deal handed out to relievers first in his bad contracts list. Did you even read the article you linked? He says the $2-5 won't make a difference to anyone and while he's annoyed, he knows the team needs to increase prices at some point. And his link at the bottom of the page has the email from Coonelly with the statements that the Pirates have the third lowest prices in MLB at 42% below average and they've have held advanced ticket pricing flat for 9 years. And damn, looking at the ticket pricing, I think I want to make a trip to the park. $52 for the most expensive seat? I can't even sit in the lower deck outfield for that at Citi.
monessen
Footballguy
Yes, I read the blogger's piece. He is unhappy with the walk-up increase and poses the additional costs that accompany those. He also grudgingly admits that a $2 increase for a ticket isn't going to dissuade anyone who really wants to see a ballgame. He acknowledges that, at some point, ticket prices have to be raised because the team isn't making much in the here and now. They don't have many season ticket holders, not even for modest packages. So they have to make up the revenue somehow. Revenue sharing allocations were down this year because the Red Sox and Yanks cut back a little on salaries.
My beef is partly with the timing. The team thought they could slip this under the radar while the city was celebrating the win over the exhausted Jets. Coincidence? I am skeptical. Raising the price after the worst record in those 9 years? Ouch. Not good for PR. Symbolically bad. Especially in such economic hard times with the city hit hard by unemployment, and whose fans have to buy plenty of pricey gas if they are driving in from WV or Eastern Ohio. No subways head out to those locations. Third from the bottom in price. My gosh, who charges less? Whoever that is, those other teams are doing right by their fans.
I do trust your judgment, though, on Heyman. You seem more familiar with his track record than me.
You always have good data. Thanks!
My beef is partly with the timing. The team thought they could slip this under the radar while the city was celebrating the win over the exhausted Jets. Coincidence? I am skeptical. Raising the price after the worst record in those 9 years? Ouch. Not good for PR. Symbolically bad. Especially in such economic hard times with the city hit hard by unemployment, and whose fans have to buy plenty of pricey gas if they are driving in from WV or Eastern Ohio. No subways head out to those locations. Third from the bottom in price. My gosh, who charges less? Whoever that is, those other teams are doing right by their fans.
I do trust your judgment, though, on Heyman. You seem more familiar with his track record than me.
You always have good data. Thanks!
monessen
Footballguy
Now that we've had our rah-rah Pirates Caravan, an opportunity for the team to make a little moolah while persuading diehard fans the future is now (Hurdle's words), here's a snippet from Rotoworld:
According to Buster Olney of ESPN.com, the perception among other teams is that the Pirates have been willing to talk about trading Paul Maholm.
Easy to see why. Maholm posted a 5.10 ERA over 32 starts last season and is owed $5.75 million in 2011. His contract includes a $9.75 million club option for 2012, but he will almost certainly be bought out. The Pirates may want him to eat some innings in the early part of the year, but look for him to be the topic of trade conversations leading up to the deadline.
Source: ESPN Insider
And so it goes.
According to Buster Olney of ESPN.com, the perception among other teams is that the Pirates have been willing to talk about trading Paul Maholm.
Easy to see why. Maholm posted a 5.10 ERA over 32 starts last season and is owed $5.75 million in 2011. His contract includes a $9.75 million club option for 2012, but he will almost certainly be bought out. The Pirates may want him to eat some innings in the early part of the year, but look for him to be the topic of trade conversations leading up to the deadline.
Source: ESPN Insider
And so it goes.
fred_1_15301
Footballguy
You need to come over to the Steelers thread. It will cheer you up.monessen said:
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
I don't really have a problem with this if guys like Rudy Owens, Lincoln, and Bryan Morris are ready to take the leap.
Really interesting article about Tim Alderson
I think you have to be a subscriber though.
It comes off as pretty negative towards the Pirates coaching, but that isn't entirely fair as he was regressing when he was with the Giants.
It also sounds as if Alderson has got his velocity back.
I think you have to be a subscriber though.
It comes off as pretty negative towards the Pirates coaching, but that isn't entirely fair as he was regressing when he was with the Giants.
It also sounds as if Alderson has got his velocity back.
monessen
Footballguy
Good for Ross! He deserves it. Most owners, except for the Nuttings, wouldn't blink at paying 2 million for the guy.
