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***Official*** Ronnie Hillman bandwagon.... (1 Viewer)

I guess my personal approach is this:

When a valuable RB goes down, and the replacements could conceivably be available, I want to read AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE about the situation. So with this situation, I followed and participated in the McGahee injury thread, this Hillman thread, and bumped the Know-Show thread to garner wisdom of the forum on all fronts. I even googled all three guys... Moreno, Hillman, Ball to find if there were any other sources that weren't being widely reported.

From my experience, this message board and the Rotoworld Forums are FAR better sources of information than I've found elsewhere. The reason is that all of us have different feelers, hear different things, read different things. When all combined, that is extremely wide-reaching. Combined with Twitter (where Wesseling - known as F&L around here - questioned whether Hillman was the guy and said he had a sneaking suspicion it was Moreno) - also followed by many on this board and in the RW forums, these are the best resources we have.

No offense intended to Lammey, but he was biased in this situation. He had hyped Hillman since the draft, and inherently viewed this situation with rose-colored lenses for Hillman. There was zero reason for him to question Hillman after he clearly believed in the guy so much, and now saw his clearest path to playing time. That's not to say he's not good at his job, or that he doesn't have a pulse on this team. It's simply to say we all have inherent biases, and it's important to identify those biases when considering a source. We ALLLL know Lammey loves Hillman - it's in the OP of this thread.

IMO, there was sufficient evidence to suggest Moreno could at least earn a split of the carries (say 40%) with a good shot at earning McGahee's role.

I'm not intending to gloat - just trying to show the approach I used that led me to Moreno. Just my 2 cents - paid off twice this year with Moreno and Dwyer...

 
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Hopping off this train to no where for a second go around of Rashard freaking Jennings. Running back roulette sucks
:goodposting: Very funny and true. Sometimes you get lucky in roulette, and that's what keeps that game alive. When McGahee's injury news was trickling out, the only Denver RB FA options IML were Ball and the long-inactive Moreno. I used my waiver pick Tues 8et on Ball. Later that night I decided to clear Hillis' spot off my roster finally and add the other unknown in the Den RB points department in Moreno. We have 12 teams, 21-man rosters, and start 3 rb, so our rosters are very deep. I got lucky. If I had Hillman, I would have been less aggressive. I don't blame anybody for thinking Hillman was the RB to target. If he was available he'd have been my first choice. There was no way to know what would happen if McGahee went down. Coaches are intentionally vague or evasive almost all of the time when it comes to projecting who will fill what role after a big injury. We find out after the game, not before it. Even when they said Moreno would start, we had no way to know how the touches would be spread out. Those who are shredding Lammey, et al, all had access to this forum and could have told us all in advance that Moreno was the man to get. Nobody knew for sure. I didn't play Moreno or Ball, and wouldn't have played Hillman after hearing Moreno would start. It was a week to watch and learn. I picked up Bryce Brown just before kickoff of week 10 and sat on him until Shady went down, so I played him instead. I'm always looking for the lottery ticket where if talent met opportunity it would pay off big. I'm sitting on Bernard Pierce for the same reason. Sorry to those who lost this lottery, but there are more tickets to buy out there so keep grinding and good luck!
 
To answer your question from post #218, Cecil Lammey tweeted during the game that both sacks came with Moreno on the field (while he was noting Hillman made a nice blitz pickup).Then again, the snap counts were 55-7 in favor of Moreno, so not sure what his point was...
I saw that, too, and thought it was kind of sad, as it is obvious that Cecil doesn't want to admit that he got this dead wrong. Shoot, we all get stuff wrong sometimes, especially in the FF world, but he is so "all in" on Hillman, and has been so down on Moreno, that it seems like he just can't bring himself to admit that he got this one way wrong. Just do it, Cecil. :)
 
To answer your question from post #218, Cecil Lammey tweeted during the game that both sacks came with Moreno on the field (while he was noting Hillman made a nice blitz pickup).

Then again, the snap counts were 55-7 in favor of Moreno, so not sure what his point was...
I saw that, too, and thought it was kind of sad, as it is obvious that Cecil doesn't want to admit that he got this dead wrong. Shoot, we all get stuff wrong sometimes, especially in the FF world, but he is so "all in" on Hillman, and has been so down on Moreno, that it seems like he just can't bring himself to admit that he got this one way wrong. Just do it, Cecil. :)
He hasn't posted at FBGs in six days. Don't expect a mea culpa anytime soon.
 
To answer your question from post #218, Cecil Lammey tweeted during the game that both sacks came with Moreno on the field (while he was noting Hillman made a nice blitz pickup).Then again, the snap counts were 55-7 in favor of Moreno, so not sure what his point was...
I saw that, too, and thought it was kind of sad, as it is obvious that Cecil doesn't want to admit that he got this dead wrong. Shoot, we all get stuff wrong sometimes, especially in the FF world, but he is so "all in" on Hillman, and has been so down on Moreno, that it seems like he just can't bring himself to admit that he got this one way wrong. Just do it, Cecil. :)
This is the crux of what I find disappointing. Credibility isn't about never being wrong, it's about being accountable either way. I'm not looking for an apology either because I don't think it's relevant. What I would like is an autopsy of sorts. I need to reassess his value as a source of information if he truly prefers to cling to what should have happened rather than what actually is happening.
 
I have to admit, I laughed out loud when I was running and heard Cecil continue to question whether Moreno was the guy and tout Hillman on this week's recap podcast.

Just thought it was a clear indication that his Hillman support has made him blind to the facts.

 
To answer your question from post #218, Cecil Lammey tweeted during the game that both sacks came with Moreno on the field (while he was noting Hillman made a nice blitz pickup).Then again, the snap counts were 55-7 in favor of Moreno, so not sure what his point was...
I saw that, too, and thought it was kind of sad, as it is obvious that Cecil doesn't want to admit that he got this dead wrong. Shoot, we all get stuff wrong sometimes, especially in the FF world, but he is so "all in" on Hillman, and has been so down on Moreno, that it seems like he just can't bring himself to admit that he got this one way wrong. Just do it, Cecil. :)
This is the crux of what I find disappointing. Credibility isn't about never being wrong, it's about being accountable either way. I'm not looking for an apology either because I don't think it's relevant. What I would like is an autopsy of sorts. I need to reassess his value as a source of information if he truly prefers to cling to what should have happened rather than what actually is happening.
Bingo. Man up and nobody would care. I don't care either way, but I think it's kind of funny to follow this thread.
 
To answer your question from post #218, Cecil Lammey tweeted during the game that both sacks came with Moreno on the field (while he was noting Hillman made a nice blitz pickup).Then again, the snap counts were 55-7 in favor of Moreno, so not sure what his point was...
I saw that, too, and thought it was kind of sad, as it is obvious that Cecil doesn't want to admit that he got this dead wrong. Shoot, we all get stuff wrong sometimes, especially in the FF world, but he is so "all in" on Hillman, and has been so down on Moreno, that it seems like he just can't bring himself to admit that he got this one way wrong. Just do it, Cecil. :)
This is the crux of what I find disappointing. Credibility isn't about never being wrong, it's about being accountable either way. I'm not looking for an apology either because I don't think it's relevant. What I would like is an autopsy of sorts. I need to reassess his value as a source of information if he truly prefers to cling to what should have happened rather than what actually is happening.
Here's what you need to know: FF production is talent * opportunity. Cecil does a fantastic job of 1/2 of that equation - off-season scouting, observing training camp, etc. However, Cecil does not sit in on coaches meetings, or go to any practices closed to the public, or get a weekly playbook from John Fox. He has limited insider access - far greater than any of us have, but still limited. Cecil can only guess at the opportunity part of the equation, just like the rest of us can. Obviously, in this case, Cecil (and the Denver Post and all other "insiders", for that matter) read that incorrectly. It wouldn't even surprise me to hear that Fox let that happen on purpose - nothing wrong with a little gamesmanship and making your opponent prepare for the wrong guy. So what if some fantasy footballers lose a game - that's irrelevant to an NFL team trying to lock up their division.When you see Cecil (or Bloom or Waldman or Wesseling or any other expert) pimping a guy, consider if they are pimping him due to talent or opportunity, and think about if that's realistic. It's hard for me to evaluate talent, but it's pretty easy to evaluate opportunity - put yourself in the coaches shoes, and think about how he has handled situations in the past, what is at stake, and what would be in the best interest of the team. If you need help with this, go to ***official*** team threads and ask around there.
 
Well said, moleculo.

And I was not calling Cecil out or anything; I love reading his updates, and his Broncos updates in particular all summer were fantastic. I was just saying that it is unfortunate that he is playing the "I refuse to admit I was wrong" game when, like I said before, we are all wrong all of the time. I was dead wrong about Brandon Lloyd this year. It happens. Big deal. :shrug:

 
Well said, moleculo. And I was not calling Cecil out or anything; I love reading his updates, and his Broncos updates in particular all summer were fantastic. I was just saying that it is unfortunate that he is playing the "I refuse to admit I was wrong" game when, like I said before, we are all wrong all of the time. I was dead wrong about Brandon Lloyd this year. It happens. Big deal. :shrug:
:suds: I also missed on Lloyd. They need to have the drinking and crying emoticon, because that's what Lloyd and Hillman have me doing.
 
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Well said, moleculo. And I was not calling Cecil out or anything; I love reading his updates, and his Broncos updates in particular all summer were fantastic. I was just saying that it is unfortunate that he is playing the "I refuse to admit I was wrong" game when, like I said before, we are all wrong all of the time. I was dead wrong about Brandon Lloyd this year. It happens. Big deal. :shrug:
:suds: I also missed on Lloyd. They need to have the drinking and crying emoticon, because that's what Lloyd and Hillman have me doing.
Lloyd was a bigger overall bust. Hillman was just a miss.
 
To answer your question from post #218, Cecil Lammey tweeted during the game that both sacks came with Moreno on the field (while he was noting Hillman made a nice blitz pickup).

Then again, the snap counts were 55-7 in favor of Moreno, so not sure what his point was...
I saw that, too, and thought it was kind of sad, as it is obvious that Cecil doesn't want to admit that he got this dead wrong. Shoot, we all get stuff wrong sometimes, especially in the FF world, but he is so "all in" on Hillman, and has been so down on Moreno, that it seems like he just can't bring himself to admit that he got this one way wrong. Just do it, Cecil. :)
This is the crux of what I find disappointing. Credibility isn't about never being wrong, it's about being accountable either way. I'm not looking for an apology either because I don't think it's relevant. What I would like is an autopsy of sorts. I need to reassess his value as a source of information if he truly prefers to cling to what should have happened rather than what actually is happening.
So true.
 
Well said, moleculo.

And I was not calling Cecil out or anything; I love reading his updates, and his Broncos updates in particular all summer were fantastic. I was just saying that it is unfortunate that he is playing the "I refuse to admit I was wrong" game when, like I said before, we are all wrong all of the time. I was dead wrong about Brandon Lloyd this year. It happens. Big deal. :shrug:
**Side note** Anyone ever notice that on Lloyd's espn.com page they have a pic of D. Branch? Funny stuff, it's almost December people, get it together!!! My link
 
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I don't think Cecil owes anybody anything for asserting his opinion.

The hardest part of fantasy football these days is learning to filter all the noise. It's up to each individual to process all the information, calibrate all the "experts" and make their own decisions from there. Anybody who relies too heavily on one source and doesn't do their own due diligence, has nobody to blame but themselves.

What I appreciate the most about Cecil is the unbridled energy and enthusiasm he has for fantasy, and football in general. Does he get carried away with his man love for certain players on occasion? Sure (see also Booker, Lorenzo). But to me that's secondary.

I don't listen to the Audible etc. expecting answers. I listen because I know the guys will be thorough with their coverage and I'll be exposed to different perspectives that will stimulate my thinking. The value is in the process, not whether someone hits on a particular call.

Anyway FWIW I hope this experience doesn't change Cecil's approach. His kind of passion is rare (and inspiring) and it would be a shame to lose any of that.

 
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Why is no one talking about Hillman having similar results this week? I do no think anything is set in stone for NoShow. I would not be surprised if every week we have a different rushing leader in Denver.

 
Why is no one talking about Hillman having similar results this week? I do no think anything is set in stone for NoShow. I would not be surprised if every week we have a different rushing leader in Denver.
I do think knowshown will get most of the carries for now. Its John Fox we are talking about
 
I don't think Cecil owes anybody anything for asserting his opinion.The hardest part of fantasy football these days is learning to filter all the noise. It's up to each individual to process all the information, calibrate all the "experts" and make their own decisions from there. Anybody who relies too heavily on one source and doesn't do their own due diligence, has nobody to blame but themselves.What I appreciate the most about Cecil is the unbridled energy and enthusiasm he has for fantasy, and football in general. Does he get carried away with his man love for certain players on occasion? Sure (see also Booker, Lorenzo). But to me that's secondary.I don't listen to the Audible etc. expecting answers. I listen because I know the guys will be thorough with their coverage and I'll be exposed to different perspectives that will stimulate my thinking. The value is in the process, not whether someone hits on a particular call.Anyway FWIW I hope this experience doesn't change Cecil's approach. His kind of passion is rare (and inspiring) and it would be a shame to lose any of that.
It's also important to remember we're talking evaluation of player talent, which is spot on. But no one anywhere really knows what a head coach will do (and sometimes a GM or owner or even assistant coach can have input and no one would ever know it), that would require the ability to read minds.
 
Why is no one talking about Hillman having similar results this week? I do no think anything is set in stone for NoShow. I would not be surprised if every week we have a different rushing leader in Denver.
I'm in a hold position with him. Didn't drop him but sure ain't playing him until I see some signs that he'll be used.
 
Any updates on Hillman? Is this the week? Is there any reason to even roster the guy other than as a knowsho cuff?

 
Why is no one talking about Hillman having similar results this week? I do no think anything is set in stone for NoShow. I would not be surprised if every week we have a different rushing leader in Denver.
I'm in a hold position with him. Didn't drop him but sure ain't playing him until I see some signs that he'll be used.
And it doesn't matter now. This move (or non move) cost me the playoffs. Played the last place team in week 13. He proceeded to get the 2nd highest score for the year. :wall:
 
I think Cecil is still in denial. He tweeted this tonight:



Moreno having some issues with pass protection tonight - Manning feeling OAK pressure

Yet said nothing about the really good night Moreno had:

167 total yards and a touchdown

Of course, he'd probably pick at his YPC of 3.7 and ignore everything else. :thumbdown: :thumbdown:

 
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Perhaps Hillman will have a great 2013. I can easily see him having a much-better year than Moreno.

But that won't help anyone win their fantasy playoffs THIS season now, will it?

 
Where was Footballguys with updates on the Denver RB situation this week? I don't care if they whiffed on Hillman. Just get me the latest news!!!

 
To answer your question from post #218, Cecil Lammey tweeted during the game that both sacks came with Moreno on the field (while he was noting Hillman made a nice blitz pickup).Then again, the snap counts were 55-7 in favor of Moreno, so not sure what his point was...
I saw that, too, and thought it was kind of sad, as it is obvious that Cecil doesn't want to admit that he got this dead wrong. Shoot, we all get stuff wrong sometimes, especially in the FF world, but he is so "all in" on Hillman, and has been so down on Moreno, that it seems like he just can't bring himself to admit that he got this one way wrong. Just do it, Cecil. :)
This is the crux of what I find disappointing. Credibility isn't about never being wrong, it's about being accountable either way. I'm not looking for an apology either because I don't think it's relevant. What I would like is an autopsy of sorts. I need to reassess his value as a source of information if he truly prefers to cling to what should have happened rather than what actually is happening.
Bingo. Man up and nobody would care. I don't care either way, but I think it's kind of funny to follow this thread.
this thread is hilarious.
 
Lammey tweets from last night:

Cecil Lammey ‏@cecillammey

interesting snaps split for #broncos RBs so far, Hillman and Moreno are even right now in first drive

Cecil Lammey ‏@cecillammey

Moreno having some issues with pass protection tonight - Manning feeling OAK pressure

Not much mention of Moreno dominating touches, having 160+ totals yards, a TD and a career high of yards after contact! :rolleyes:

 
Lammey tweets from last night:

Cecil Lammey ‏@cecillammey

interesting snaps split for #broncos RBs so far, Hillman and Moreno are even right now in first drive

Cecil Lammey ‏@cecillammey

Moreno having some issues with pass protection tonight - Manning feeling OAK pressure

Not much mention of Moreno dominating touches, having 160+ totals yards, a TD and a career high of yards after contact! :rolleyes:
Cecil clearly misfired and contiues to bury his head in the sand.
 
Lammey tweets from last night:

Cecil Lammey ‏@cecillammey

interesting snaps split for #broncos RBs so far, Hillman and Moreno are even right now in first drive

Cecil Lammey ‏@cecillammey

Moreno having some issues with pass protection tonight - Manning feeling OAK pressure

Not much mention of Moreno dominating touches, having 160+ totals yards, a TD and a career high of yards after contact! :rolleyes:
Cecil clearly misfired and contiues to bury his head in the sand.
Agreed. There was a thread from a couple of years ago where I argued back and forth with Cecil about Moreno is not as bad as he or others think.Moreno is not an elite RB by any stretch, but he has showed on multiple occasions now that he is an adequater NFL RB. He has always run hard and been an ok pass catching RB. He is still only 25 years of age. He won't light the world on fire, but Cecil really disliked him mostly due to Denver reaching on him in the first round. That is not Moreno's fault though.

 
Lammey tweets from last night:

Cecil Lammey ‏@cecillammey

interesting snaps split for #broncos RBs so far, Hillman and Moreno are even right now in first drive

Cecil Lammey ‏@cecillammey

Moreno having some issues with pass protection tonight - Manning feeling OAK pressure

Not much mention of Moreno dominating touches, having 160+ totals yards, a TD and a career high of yards after contact! :rolleyes:
Oh man. Tough to watch.
 
I think Cecil is still in denial. He tweeted this tonight:



Moreno having some issues with pass protection tonight - Manning feeling OAK pressure

Yet said nothing about the really good night Moreno had:

167 total yards and a touchdown

Of course, he'd probably pick at his YPC of 3.7 and ignore everything else. :thumbdown: :thumbdown:
To be fair, 3.7 ypc is pretty bad against Oakland. I started him and reaped the rewards so it's hard to get on his case when he helped me out, but even watching him get hit behind the line several times, I'd still hope that a couple long run would've balanced those out.
 
3.7 is nothing to brag about, true, but I think you have to take into consideration that he had quite a few goal line carries last night, as well as bunch of runs at the end when they were trying to run the clock out. A 3.7 YPC over the course of the whole season would be mediocre, for sure, but he looked good last night. The several runs where he lost yardage were ones where he was getting hit as soon as he got the ball and had no chance.

 
Schefter's tweet about Moreno's yards after contact is much more telling than his YPC. There were numerous times where Moreno got the ball with a defender right in his face -- the stats don't tell the whole story there.

@AdamSchefter Knowshon Moreno had career-best 69 yards after contact, good for second-most by a Broncos RB in past four seasons, via ESPN Stats and Info.
On one of his goalline carries, the Oakland D completely blew up the right side of the Denver line, and Moreno had arms around his legs at the 4. He still made it back to the 1.More telling, in the fourth quarter when it was time to kill the clock, Moreno had 59 yards on 12 carries, consistenly pushing the pile and falling forward for extra yardage. That's nearly 5.0 YPC when it matters most.
 
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Lammey tweets from last night:

Cecil Lammey ‏@cecillammey

interesting snaps split for #broncos RBs so far, Hillman and Moreno are even right now in first drive

Cecil Lammey ‏@cecillammey

Moreno having some issues with pass protection tonight - Manning feeling OAK pressure

Not much mention of Moreno dominating touches, having 160+ totals yards, a TD and a career high of yards after contact! :rolleyes:
Oh man. Tough to watch.
Yep - anyone still quesitoning whether or not Cecil is slightly biased toward Hillman?
 
Manning did have to direct Moreno where to line up a lot last night, and he did miss a few blocks (and tripped over his own feet again). Would Hillman have done any better? Probably not since he's not being thrown into that role.

He may be the best overall guy they've got RIGHT NOW, but when you have 1st and goal from the 1 and you can't punch it in, you're not going to get any ringing endorsements. He was pedestrian vs. TB, but he's getting volume, which helps the numbers. He's also not fumbling, which is a plus.

I wouldn't be running to acquire him in any dynasty league, that's for sure.

 
He may be the best overall guy they've got RIGHT NOW, but when you have 1st and goal from the 1 and you can't punch it in, you're not going to get any ringing endorsements.
he didn't have a chance on that play since the DL was in the backfield before he could hit the hole...and he had to be told where to line up because he was working with the scout team for about 2 months prior. Moreno has been a very good real-life (and fantasy RB) since he was given the opportunity. Missing Kuper is huge and the OL had issues all night run blocking and in pass protection last night. 3.7 ypc means little when the guy is picking up the tough yards, finishing runs, and salting the clock away when the entire audience knows he's getting the ball. He's definitely worth a dynasty flyer. McGahee is getting up there and there is little to no competition for the move the chains RB on the rooster. seems there are a lot of people predisposed to disliking Moreno for 1 reason or another, but he's been just fine filling in for McGahee thus far.
 
He's Shonn Greene in a Broncos uniform. Maybe with slightly better hands. His cap hit next year (almost $2m) is 2x what he's getting this year, and considering they're grooming Hillman in similar areas, I'd be shocked if he's still on the team.

 
'The Kuhn said:
He's Shonn Greene in a Broncos uniform. Maybe with slightly better hands. His cap hit next year (almost $2m) is 2x what he's getting this year, and considering they're grooming Hillman in similar areas, I'd be shocked if he's still on the team.
What have we seen that suggests that the Broncos are "grooming Hillman in similar areas" to guys like McGahee and Moreno? If you take the pulse of Broncos fans, their message board is currently debating McGahee vs. Moreno for their 2013 RB1 with barely a mention of Hillman - which seems to make an awful lot more sense. In addition to Moreno being the bellcow lately, I think it's interesting that Hillman has had ZERO catches in that time span as well. Moreno has as many catches in limited action this season as Shonn Greene has all year - not to mention Moreno having 6 career receiving TD's to Greene's 0. He's just a more talented all around RB than Greene.
 
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'The Kuhn said:
He's Shonn Greene in a Broncos uniform. Maybe with slightly better hands. His cap hit next year (almost $2m) is 2x what he's getting this year, and considering they're grooming Hillman in similar areas, I'd be shocked if he's still on the team.
The new Joseph Addai to me. Versatile, but so so runner.I've asked quite a few folks (including Cecil who has seemingly went into hibernation for the winter) what they've seen from Hillman this year in the NFL to make you think he could be an effective lead RB.No answer yet.What I've seen is a guy that is and can be an effective CoP back this year.
 
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'The Kuhn said:
He's Shonn Greene in a Broncos uniform. Maybe with slightly better hands. His cap hit next year (almost $2m) is 2x what he's getting this year, and considering they're grooming Hillman in similar areas, I'd be shocked if he's still on the team.
What have we seen that suggests that the Broncos are "grooming Hillman in similar areas" to guys like McGahee and Moreno? If you take the pulse of Broncos fans, their message board is currently debating McGahee vs. Moreno for their 2013 RB1 with barely a mention of Hillman - which seems to make an awful lot more sense. In addition to Moreno being the bellcow lately, I think it's interesting that Hillman has had ZERO catches in that time span as well. Moreno has as many catches in limited action this season as Shonn Greene has all year - not to mention Moreno having 6 career receiving TD's to Greene's 0. He's just a more talented all around RB than Greene.
I was comparing Hillman to Moreno. Hillman looked OK in limited duty last night, and he did have a pass target. Personally, I don't feel like Hillman is a feature back, but would complement either McGahee or Deangelo Williams just fine if they go there in the off-season as speculation suggests. I can see them spending the money on DWill rather than $2m on Moreno.I think they're showcasing Moreno right now, ala Tebow 2011. He's doing good enough, and he's fulfilling the role they need right now, but they're purging everything left of the McDaniels era (good riddance) and building around the new core. He'll likely be playing somewhere next year, but I don't see him in Denver.
 
'The Kuhn said:
He's Shonn Greene in a Broncos uniform. Maybe with slightly better hands.
can you flesh this out? I don't get this comparison at all. Greene's a plodding north/south runner with next to no receiving ability. I think the guy that mentioned Addai is closer to what Moreno is.
He's doing good enough, and he's fulfilling the role they need right now, but they're purging everything left of the McDaniels era (good riddance) and building around the new core. He'll likely be playing somewhere next year, but I don't see him in Denver.
:confused: DT, Decker, Beadles, Walton, Ayers, etal. The McD players they got rid of weren't productive. They aren't 'purging everything left of the McDaniels era' just because they are McD guys.

 
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'The Kuhn said:
He's Shonn Greene in a Broncos uniform. Maybe with slightly better hands. His cap hit next year (almost $2m) is 2x what he's getting this year, and considering they're grooming Hillman in similar areas, I'd be shocked if he's still on the team.
Hillman isnt gonna be a guy that gets 20 carries on the ground ever.
 
Lammey tweets from last night:

Cecil Lammey ‏@cecillammey

interesting snaps split for #broncos RBs so far, Hillman and Moreno are even right now in first drive

Cecil Lammey ‏@cecillammey

Moreno having some issues with pass protection tonight - Manning feeling OAK pressure

Not much mention of Moreno dominating touches, having 160+ totals yards, a TD and a career high of yards after contact! :rolleyes:
Oh man. Tough to watch.
Yep - anyone still quesitoning whether or not Cecil is slightly biased toward Hillman?
I don't even know who this Cecil guy is, but I do know that Moreno had one of the best games of his career on thursday. Yeah, he missed a pickup (i think one time in the game), which isn't unusual for any running back. Acting like this was an even split and bashing moreno's blocking shows this person either wasn't watching or has an agenda. just my two cents.
 
'The Kuhn said:
He's Shonn Greene in a Broncos uniform. Maybe with slightly better hands. His cap hit next year (almost $2m) is 2x what he's getting this year, and considering they're grooming Hillman in similar areas, I'd be shocked if he's still on the team.
The week after the McGahee injury happened I posted in one of the Hillman threads to proceed with caution. I mean, we have plenty of history to suggest what might happen with Fox running the show. Considering how that turned out I will offer the same sage advice: we're dealing with Jon Fox here. He has kept more talented backs on the bench than Hillman in favor of vets. Offering up a meager cap hit as a reason to think otherwise sounds like the same sorry excuses I heard when everyone thought Hillman was going to start.
 
These are probably the truest words spoken in this thread so far:

Trust me, you're not playing or getting the ball much if Manning doesn't trust you in that offense.
And given that, it is obvious that Manning still doesn't trust Hillman, otherwise he'd be seeing a lot of playing time. I think it is similar to David Wilson in NY in that both look dynamic at times, but neither knows the offense well enough to get a lot of PT in a Manning-led offense. Protecting the QB is always the number 1 priority in a Manning-led offense.
 
Lammey tweets from last night:

Cecil Lammey ‏@cecillammey

interesting snaps split for #broncos RBs so far, Hillman and Moreno are even right now in first drive

Cecil Lammey ‏@cecillammey

Moreno having some issues with pass protection tonight - Manning feeling OAK pressure

Not much mention of Moreno dominating touches, having 160+ totals yards, a TD and a career high of yards after contact! :rolleyes:
Snap counts for Week 14: Hillman 15, Moreno 67.
 

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