***OFFICIAL Yankees offseason thread*** (1 Viewer)

[shadyridr]

Didnt want to start this so early but here goes.

IMO the Yankees problem in the postseason is pitching pitching and pitching. Sure they have had a lack of clutch hits over the last few years but what exactly can you do about that? Its not like you can go out and sign clutch hitters. I think they should leave their lineup entact being that it was the #1 offense in baseball. There is nothing out there as far as FA starters so unless they can swing Hughes for Santana they should keep the youngsters in the rotation to develop and hope one of them develops into an ace. They need to sign some bullpen arms as well.

This is what I would do with the potential free agents:

Posada- resign him to a 3 year deal. Yes ideally Id like a 2 year deal but the FA market for catchers is bleak and they have no contingency plan here. In the 3rd year of the deal Giambi, Damon, and Matsui would all be off the books so Posada could be fulltime DH

Pettitte- Hopefully he picks up his option but the Yanks have no control over this. He is a solid 2/3 starter and a good influence on the youngsters.

Abreu- This is a no-brainer to pick up his option IMO. Sure $16mil is a bit steep but he was fantastic in the 2nd half and the fact that its only for one more year is a huge plus

Rivera- Resign him. Hes still a dominant closer.

ARod- Obviously I think the Yanks should resign him to a huge deal. Without him the chances for the Yanks to goto the playoffs drops a ton. He is the best player in baseball.

Now here is what I think of some other players:

Mussina- Either trade him to an NL team picking up some money or let him compete with Kennedy for the 5th spot in the rotation

Chamberlain- He needs to go into the starting rotation. Hopefully he can develop into a dominant ace. If not he eventually can be moved to closer when Mo retires. Making him a setup man is a huge waste of talent IMO

Giambi- Needs to be dumped to a team looking for some pop. Obviously Yanks would have to pick up most of the money

Matsui- fulltime DH. Damon has been solid in LF

Farnsworth- Dump him to anybody willing to take him

So here is my lineup:

LF- Damon

SS- Jeter

RF- Abreu

3B- Rodriguez

C- Posada

DH- Matsui

2B- Cano

CF- Cabrera

1B- Mientkeiwicz?

Rotation:

Wang, Hughes, Chamberlain, Pettitte, Kennedy/Mussina

Bullpen:

Need to get some free agents, resign Vizcaino, and hopefully Ohlendorf or Veras could develop into a solid reliever

Manager:

Torre is not to blame for this. Sure he pulls starters too early and overuses relievers but he did absolutely nothing wrong in the postseason. IF they fire him Id rather Girardi than Mattingly

So there you have it. Id keep the lineup and develop the young starters in the rotation. IF they can sign some FA relievers and IF the young pitchers can develop into dominant starters then I like their chances. Then they just gotta hope their lineup hits in the clutch.

 

[DropKick]

A disclaimer first... I am no Yankee fan. I do get the impression the team, as a whole, is getting older. Not too old, but this team is losing its window. Here is the age (this time next year) of your line-up. I'm amazed Matsui is under 50... but I digress. ARod would be a big loss. Pettite would be a big loss. I don't see Posada with the same numbers, too much wear and tear at that position.

LF- Damon 34 years old

SS- Jeter 34 years old

RF- Abreu 34 years old

3B- Rodriguez 33 years old could be gone

C- Posada 37 years old not likely to repeat career year

DH- Matsui 34 years old

2B- Cano 25 years old

CF- Cabrera 24 years old

1B- Mientkeiwicz? 34 years old

At what age do you estimate a drop off for the average baseball player?

 

[Yankee23Fan]

Here's my opinion as of now without delving too deap into contract scenarios and free agent market...

C - I would like Posada back but they need to prepare a new C now. This is not the kind of team that young inexperienced catcher can work on so Posada has to come back for a year or two, but either call up, trade for or do something to get the next catcher in there as backup and let Jorge train him as they did with Girardi and Posada. And no, Molina Brother #23232 is not the long term answer to me.

1B - I would like Giambi off the team, but to do it they will pay 90% of his salary, and he would have to stay in the AL. There isn't a team out there that will give anything for him, so either he is a platoon 1B/DH or bench guy but nothing more. If he wakes up and starts hitting again, fine, but I won't expect it.

2B Cano - I expect him to be a Yankee for his entire career, and a 3 hitter in another year or two.

SS Jeter - obviously

3B - sign Alex to whatever he wants. Make sure Jeter is at the press conference all happy and smiling. Show him the love he wants as well as the money. You don't not sign the best player in the game when you have the financial resources the Yankees do. Of course, if he doesn't want to come back it's moot, but I'd make him want to come back. He will be the centerpiece of the team for another decade, break the HR record and do it in the new park for the most storied team in the sport. It's a romantic story that the Yankees need to make sure they write.

Outfield - I want Melky to stay the CF and do not want any part of Hunter or Jones or that kind of player. Melky can do the job, and not every Yankee CF needs to be Mantle or DiMaggio. He's got a fire and passion that the team needs. I would keep Abreu as well. I also like Hideki, but would not be terribly sad if he was traded.

SP Wang

SP Pettite

SP Chamberlain

SP Hughes

SP Kennedy

That should be the starting rotation next year. I'm also a fan of grooming Joba to be Mariano's replacement, but I'm ok with in the rotation as well. I would get rid of Moose any way possible and give the young arms the chance of a whole year leading the team.

The bullpen is the bullpen. You can always use arms there, no matter your team. I give Mariano everything he wants. Him at 80% is still better then 90% of the league, and frankly, he deserves the money.

I would like Torre back. I think Joe is a good manager for this team, and I think bringing him back helps to keep certain players happy. I don't like nor want Tony LaRussa in this dugout, nor do I ever want to see the name Bobby Valentine ever again. I could understand a Buck Showalter move and I loved Buck and hated him getting fired, but I still prefer Joe. We all know I'm a Mattingly guy, but I think he needs another year or two as bench coach learning to work the New York aspect of that job. I think the Gator did a good job with the staff and have no problem with him coming back as well.

And I want Duncan to have at least 300 AB's next year. Love the fire in that kid. Between him, Giambi if necessary, Godzilla, Damon and whoever else I'm happy with the OF/DH/1B rotation that presents.

My biggest concern, however, is making sure that Joba, Kennedy and Hughes all get spots and keep them. I want no part of trading any of them for another 38 year old anything. I would like to see the beginning of another Yankee farm system dynasty like we had with Bernie, Posada, Pettite, Jeter and Rivera up the middle for all those years.

 

[shadyridr]

Yankee23Fan,

IF Minnesota asked for Hughes straight up for Johan (all indications are that Minny would want more which I wouldnt do) would you do that deal?

 

[Capella]

Yankee23Fan,IF Minnesota asked for Hughes straight up for Johan (all indications are that Minny would want more which I wouldnt do) would you do that deal?

Who wouldn't do this? As you said, Minny would want a lot more anyways.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

Yankee23Fan,IF Minnesota asked for Hughes straight up for Johan (all indications are that Minny would want more which I wouldnt do) would you do that deal?

You probably have to do it - as long as Johan signs a long term deal. If it's for one year, then absolutely not.

 

[NY/NJMFDIVER]

Yankee23Fan,IF Minnesota asked for Hughes straight up for Johan (all indications are that Minny would want more which I wouldnt do) would you do that deal?

Who wouldn't do this? As you said, Minny would want a lot more anyways.

Why not just sign him in a year and keep Hughes plus whatever else it would cost? IF Hughes were to be moved, I'd want a high ceiling corner outfielder(or possibly a 3rd baseman depending on A-Rod), not a guy we get the priveldge of giving 25 million a year to. Call it heresy, but I also think we've seen the best of Johan, he's a slight guy who's thrown a lot of innings. And as much as anything, Hughes is part of the improving climate here, the mercenary looking for a payday vibe has to change or at least take a hiatus.

 

[Colin Dowling]

Giambi doesn't have any pop left. No one is taking that guy unless NY pays 95% of his salary.

 

[Capella]

Why not just sign him in a year and keep Hughes plus whatever else it would cost?

No guarantee you sign him. I would think if NY was going to trade for him though, they would work out an extension first.

 

[Michael Brown]

Here's my opinion as of now without delving too deap into contract scenarios and free agent market...

C - I would like Posada back but they need to prepare a new C now. This is not the kind of team that young inexperienced catcher can work on so Posada has to come back for a year or two, but either call up, trade for or do something to get the next catcher in there as backup and let Jorge train him as they did with Girardi and Posada. And no, Molina Brother #23232 is not the long term answer to me.

1B - I would like Giambi off the team, but to do it they will pay 90% of his salary, and he would have to stay in the AL. There isn't a team out there that will give anything for him, so either he is a platoon 1B/DH or bench guy but nothing more. If he wakes up and starts hitting again, fine, but I won't expect it.

2B Cano - I expect him to be a Yankee for his entire career, and a 3 hitter in another year or two.

SS Jeter - obviously

3B - sign Alex to whatever he wants. Make sure Jeter is at the press conference all happy and smiling. Show him the love he wants as well as the money. You don't not sign the best player in the game when you have the financial resources the Yankees do. Of course, if he doesn't want to come back it's moot, but I'd make him want to come back. He will be the centerpiece of the team for another decade, break the HR record and do it in the new park for the most storied team in the sport. It's a romantic story that the Yankees need to make sure they write.

Outfield - I want Melky to stay the CF and do not want any part of Hunter or Jones or that kind of player. Melky can do the job, and not every Yankee CF needs to be Mantle or DiMaggio. He's got a fire and passion that the team needs. I would keep Abreu as well. I also like Hideki, but would not be terribly sad if he was traded.

SP Wang

SP Pettite

SP Chamberlain

SP Hughes

SP Kennedy

That should be the starting rotation next year. I'm also a fan of grooming Joba to be Mariano's replacement, but I'm ok with in the rotation as well. I would get rid of Moose any way possible and give the young arms the chance of a whole year leading the team.

The bullpen is the bullpen. You can always use arms there, no matter your team. I give Mariano everything he wants. Him at 80% is still better then 90% of the league, and frankly, he deserves the money.

I would like Torre back. I think Joe is a good manager for this team, and I think bringing him back helps to keep certain players happy. I don't like nor want Tony LaRussa in this dugout, nor do I ever want to see the name Bobby Valentine ever again. I could understand a Buck Showalter move and I loved Buck and hated him getting fired, but I still prefer Joe. We all know I'm a Mattingly guy, but I think he needs another year or two as bench coach learning to work the New York aspect of that job. I think the Gator did a good job with the staff and have no problem with him coming back as well.

And I want Duncan to have at least 300 AB's next year. Love the fire in that kid. Between him, Giambi if necessary, Godzilla, Damon and whoever else I'm happy with the OF/DH/1B rotation that presents.

My biggest concern, however, is making sure that Joba, Kennedy and Hughes all get spots and keep them. I want no part of trading any of them for another 38 year old anything. I would like to see the beginning of another Yankee farm system dynasty like we had with Bernie, Posada, Pettite, Jeter and Rivera up the middle for all those years.

We typically haven't agreed on many aspects of the team and what should be done, but this is a VERY VERY Especially the bolded parts. :(

 

[shadyridr]

Mariano Rivera isn't happy that Joe Torre might be out as manager of the New York Yankees and said the team's decision will be factored into whether he returns."I don't feel good about it," Rivera said Wednesday, two days after the Yankees were eliminated from the playoffs. "I don't see why they're even thinking [about letting Torre go]. I wish he's back, definitely. If you ask me what I would want, I want him back."Rivera's contract also is expiring and he is eligible to become a free agent. He said whether Torre returns will help determine whether he remains with the Yankees. I don't see why they're even thinking [about letting Torre go]. I wish he's back, definitely. If you ask me what I would want, I want him back. --Mariano Rivera"It might do a lot of it," he said. "I mean, I've been with Joe for so many years, and the kind of person he has been for me and for my teammates. It's been great. The thing is that I don't see why they have to put him in this position."Rivera, who turns 38 next month, plans to speak with Torre soon. The pitcher, regarded by many as baseball's greatest closer, wanted to negotiate an extension during spring training, but the Yankees decided to delay talks until after the season. He made $10.5 million."I'm going to be open to hear all offers," said Rivera, who wants a multiyear contract. "The Yankees had the opportunity but didn't do nothing with it."Asked if the Yankees would be his first choice regardless of the decision on Torre, he responded: "Right now, I can't tell you that."

 

[NY/NJMFDIVER]

Why not just sign him in a year and keep Hughes plus whatever else it would cost?

No guarantee you sign him. I would think if NY was going to trade for him though, they would work out an extension first.

Oh well, not worth our discussion until it gets to a heavy rumor phase, but I can't see either team pulling the trigger. Me personally, I wouldn't do it, you might not need him. Not to diminish what Johan does, but he had a bit of a down year. I can't see him signing an extension either way, and if he did, it would worry me becaue why wouldn't he test the market if he was perhaps uncertain of his health. If we are putting Clippard and Chase Wright together, lets do it, but not this front line bunch(I-Ken, Hughes, Joba or Horne)

 

[wilked]

Not to diminish what Johan does, but he had a bit of a down year.

Wow....This is a down year?

http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=276371

219 IP, 235 Ks, 1.07 WHIP, 4:1 K:BB

You are out of your mind

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Not to diminish what Johan does, but he had a bit of a down year.

Wow....This is a down year?

http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=276371

219 IP, 235 Ks, 1.07 WHIP, 4:1 K:BB

You are out of your mind

Not that this ever happens but I agree with Wilked. Santana would have won the Cy Young pitching for the Yankees this year. I hope he ends up in the NL but Yankees fans are delusional if they think they can get him for anything less than your two best prospects (Hughes included) and probably a Melky Cabrera. Shouldn't have burned out your farm system and pray he doesn't get traded and becomes a FA because you're not getting him via trade. The Dodgers among others have a lot more to offer the Twins. Santana is by far, by far, by far (did I say by far?) the best pitcher in baseball and Hughes is a rookie with upside. To even suggest the Twins would deal Santana for Hughes is comical especially considering what the Twins have in their system as far as pitching prospects who are as good or better than Hughes (Bonser and Garza).

Awesome Yankee shtick.

 

[Darth Cheney]

My thoughts on it...... On one hand I would love to see A-Rod, Torre, Mo and Jorge stay and make a run at the pennant next year as I think they would make the playoffs again. The problem with that is that with the pitching situation the way it is.....will they have enough to make a deep run into the playoffs? You have a quartet of youngsters (Wang,Kennedy,Chamberlain,Hughes) who all have pretty decent stuff and who could in the future make a fairly dominant staff ....but is that next year, the year after or the year after? If that staff isn't ready to take it up a level then does resigning Mo and Posada and keeping Joe around make sense? I'm hearing alot of guys criticize the declining talents of Abreu, Matusi, Giambi, Jeter and Damon without thinking of the fact that in order for the team to win, it's going to need these players to contribute. I'm seeing the same thing with the Philadelphia Eagles right now as they seem to be stuck between eras, on a downswing instead of the upswing relying on players who have either lost a step or have gained an injury bug. Money isn't an issue with the team, so I suppose signing the players and then reducing their roles as they lose athletic ability is an option. Even that though will end up biting you in the #### eventually.

 

[Capella]

. If we are putting Clippard and Chase Wright together,

 

[Balco]

Not to diminish what Johan does, but he had a bit of a down year.

Wow....This is a down year?

http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=276371

219 IP, 235 Ks, 1.07 WHIP, 4:1 K:BB

You are out of your mind

Not that this ever happens but I agree with Wilked. Santana would have won the Cy Young pitching for the Yankees this year. I hope he ends up in the NL but Yankees fans are delusional if they think they can get him for anything less than your two best prospects (Hughes included) and probably a Melky Cabrera. Shouldn't have burned out your farm system and pray he doesn't get traded and becomes a FA because you're not getting him via trade. The Dodgers among others have a lot more to offer the Twins. Santana is by far, by far, by far (did I say by far?) the best pitcher in baseball and Hughes is a rookie with upside. To even suggest the Twins would deal Santana for Hughes is comical especially considering what the Twins have in their system as far as pitching prospects who are as good or better than Hughes (Bonser and Garza).

Awesome Yankee shtick.

Santana is the best pitcher in MLB right now. A lefty starter with those stats, any team would be drooling over the guy. Hughes is a solid prospect, but the Yanks will have to ante up more to land him. Like Dr. Detroit said, pitching is actually a strength in the Twins system. Bonser and Garza both have great stuff and Francisco Liriano should be back next season. Minnesota needs hitting as well, and I just can't see who the Yanks can give them. I can see a ton of teams with better prospects to give up for Santana including LA, Anaheim, Detroit, and Boston.

 

[Balco]

My two cents on the Yanks:

C: Posada will be 37, ancient for a catcher. If the Yanks give him more than 2 years they are fools. He had a career year in his contract season.

1B: Giambi has the lateral movement of an elephent at 1st base, and has become a poor man's Rob Deer at the plate. No team is going to want that guy unless the Yanks pay 99.9 % of his salary.

2B: Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't Cano a natural 3rd basemen? (I am pretty sure he was, but not positive). With A Rod all but gone, I think Cano could move over to third. At least it gives Cashman some flexibility if Arod departs.

SS: Jeter. Yankee for life.

3B: I said in an earlier post, fans and media have been brutal, can't see how ARod would want to stay. This guy is going to have offers, no matter how exorbitant they may be. This is going to be a huge hole to fill and completely changes that lineup. Where is the pop?

OF: Picking up Abreu's option is a no brainer. He is a solid player, and even though he is not worth 16 mil, the Yanks have the payroll, and it is only 1 more year. No real risk here. Damon seems to be breaking down, and his already poor defense is going to get worse. Maybe a move to 1st is in his future? I like Cabrera. Not going to be a star, but he is a gamer. I also like Matsui. I don't think this position will really be touched at all.

Starters:

Below average. Wang and Pettite are solid, nothing great, but they are top 3 starters on most teams. Phillip Hughes, still very young, so it will be interesting to see how he does next season. Mussina? Yikes. I am sure a National League team would take him if the Yanks ate most of his salary. Kennedy is another unknown quantity. The Yanks need to get a veteran in there, an innings eater. Not break the bank, but a guy who can give them 180-200 innings and get a 4.5 era.

Relievers:

Horrible. I am in the minority who thinks Chamberlain should be in the pen. If the Yanks want to try him out in the rotation, that is fine, but if he is a 4.00 starter, they need to move him back. There are many hotshot rookie starters who have thrived in the pen (Papplebon, Nathan, Gagne, Tom Gordon, Isringhausen . . . etc.) Then who is left? Farnsworth? 100 mph with no movement. Luis Vizcaino? Atrocious. They need to address this and I have a feeling they will be throwing a ton of money at some middle relievers on the market.

 

[Darth Cheney]

My two cents on the Yanks:C: Posada will be 37, ancient for a catcher. If the Yanks give him more than 2 years they are fools. He had a career year in his contract season. 1B: Giambi has the lateral movement of an elephent at 1st base, and has become a poor man's Rob Deer at the plate. No team is going to want that guy unless the Yanks pay 99.9 % of his salary.2B: Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't Cano a natural 3rd basemen? (I am pretty sure he was, but not positive). With A Rod all but gone, I think Cano could move over to third. At least it gives Cashman some flexibility if Arod departs.SS: Jeter. Yankee for life.3B: I said in an earlier post, fans and media have been brutal, can't see how ARod would want to stay. This guy is going to have offers, no matter how exorbitant they may be. This is going to be a huge hole to fill and completely changes that lineup. Where is the pop?OF: Picking up Abreu's option is a no brainer. He is a solid player, and even though he is not worth 16 mil, the Yanks have the payroll, and it is only 1 more year. No real risk here. Damon seems to be breaking down, and his already poor defense is going to get worse. Maybe a move to 1st is in his future? I like Cabrera. Not going to be a star, but he is a gamer. I also like Matsui. I don't think this position will really be touched at all.Starters:Below average. Wang and Pettite are solid, nothing great, but they are top 3 starters on most teams. Phillip Hughes, still very young, so it will be interesting to see how he does next season. Mussina? Yikes. I am sure a National League team would take him if the Yanks ate most of his salary. Kennedy is another unknown quantity. The Yanks need to get a veteran in there, an innings eater. Not break the bank, but a guy who can give them 180-200 innings and get a 4.5 era.Relievers:Horrible. I am in the minority who thinks Chamberlain should be in the pen. If the Yanks want to try him out in the rotation, that is fine, but if he is a 4.00 starter, they need to move him back. There are many hotshot rookie starters who have thrived in the pen (Papplebon, Nathan, Gagne, Tom Gordon, Isringhausen . . . etc.) Then who is left? Farnsworth? 100 mph with no movement. Luis Vizcaino? Atrocious. They need to address this and I have a feeling they will be throwing a ton of money at some middle relievers on the market.

Here it is:We sign Bonds...that's our DH. We trade Chase and Clippard to to the Orioles for Miguel Tejeda, move Jeter to 2B, Cano to 3B and have Tejada play SS. Damon and Posada alternate at 1B, with Posada the backup catcher to Indigo Molina ( yet another of the Catching Molina Brothers). We sign a few innings eaters in Paul Byrd, Tom Glavine and trade a low level prospect to the Phils for Jamie Moyer. We move those three guys plus Mussina and Clemens to the pen and resign Moe. the rotation is Pettie-Wang-Hughes-Chamberlain and Kennedy with Mussina, Clemens,Moyer,Glavine and Byrd in the pen and Moe closing.

 

[Capella]

We sign Bonds...that's our DH. We trade Chase and Clippard to to the Orioles for Miguel Tejeda, move Jeter to 2B, Cano to 3B and have Tejada play SS. Damon and Posada alternate at 1B, with Posada the backup catcher to Indigo Molina ( yet another of the Catching Molina Brothers). We sign a few innings eaters in Paul Byrd, Tom Glavine and trade a low level prospect to the Phils for Jamie Moyer. We move those three guys plus Mussina and Clemens to the pen and resign Moe. the rotation is Pettie-Wang-Hughes-Chamberlain and Kennedy with Mussina, Clemens,Moyer,Glavine and Byrd in the pen and Moe closing.

I hope they do just about everything you mentioned here. The circus will continue to spin.Moyer and Glavine in the AL would be hilarious shtick.

 

[shadyridr]

We sign Bonds...that's our DH. We trade Chase and Clippard to to the Orioles for Miguel Tejeda, move Jeter to 2B, Cano to 3B and have Tejada play SS. Damon and Posada alternate at 1B, with Posada the backup catcher to Indigo Molina ( yet another of the Catching Molina Brothers). We sign a few innings eaters in Paul Byrd, Tom Glavine and trade a low level prospect to the Phils for Jamie Moyer. We move those three guys plus Mussina and Clemens to the pen and resign Moe. the rotation is Pettie-Wang-Hughes-Chamberlain and Kennedy with Mussina, Clemens,Moyer,Glavine and Byrd in the pen and Moe closing.

I hope they do just about everything you mentioned here. The circus will continue to spin.Moyer and Glavine in the AL would be hilarious shtick.

Im not 100% sure but I think he is kidding

 

[shadyridr]

Rumors are hours after the Yankees lost to the Indians, they called Minny and asked them what they can package with Wang for Santana.

 

[Capella]

Rumors are hours after the Yankees lost to the Indians, they called Minny and asked them what they can package with Wang for Santana.

Wang Hopefully the answer was "Hughes and Chamberlain"

 

[NY/NJMFDIVER]

Not to diminish what Johan does, but he had a bit of a down year.

Wow....This is a down year?

http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=276371

219 IP, 235 Ks, 1.07 WHIP, 4:1 K:BB

You are out of your mind

Not that this ever happens but I agree with Wilked. Santana would have won the Cy Young pitching for the Yankees this year. I hope he ends up in the NL but Yankees fans are delusional if they think they can get him for anything less than your two best prospects (Hughes included) and probably a Melky Cabrera. Shouldn't have burned out your farm system and pray he doesn't get traded and becomes a FA because you're not getting him via trade. The Dodgers among others have a lot more to offer the Twins. Santana is by far, by far, by far (did I say by far?) the best pitcher in baseball and Hughes is a rookie with upside. To even suggest the Twins would deal Santana for Hughes is comical especially considering what the Twins have in their system as far as pitching prospects who are as good or better than Hughes (Bonser and Garza).

Awesome Yankee shtick.

Not a down year, but a down year by the Johan measuring stick. K/BB was down, WHIP was up, K/9 were down. Why would the Yanks clean out the cubboard for a guy they can buy next year, who may have hit his high water mark. Johan is a great pitcher who would benefit from the ballpark, but it seems like you guys want this more than any Yankee fan. If I didn't make clear with my first post, it was not like this was an off season, but if the ball is rolling back down the hill, even in a long gradual slope, I don't want to find out with Yankee youth. Hey, maybe that K/BB drops to 3.5:1 which is still great but not the unreal 6:1 he had been putting up. His red flag to me was a far less effective second half this season then he had typically been having. As I said, its damned if you do, damned if you don't. Why would he take a long term deal if he can hit the market and set a record for a pitcher UNLESS he knew something about his own ability or potential injury? And please, lets not get crazy comparing Bonser and Hughes. I'll certainly listen to a Garza comparison, but pipe down with the Boof schtick.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Why would he take a long term deal if he can hit the market and set a record for a pitcher UNLESS he knew something about his own ability or potential injury?

Not sure what you're hinting at here but Santana wanted to stay in Minnesota until about mid season so maybe that answers both questions. Also FYI, his K/9 were up this year and it's easy to have your WHIP drop off when you go three straight seasons with a WHIP under 1.

And please, lets not get crazy comparing Bonser and Hughes. I'll certainly listen to a Garza comparison, but pipe down with the Boof schtick.

I like Boof but also we really have to see what Hughes can actually do over the course of a season. I'm usually pretty skeptical of pitchers at his stage no matter what.

 

[wilked]

Santana did not have a down year, by any measure. Oh, you mean he didn't (isn't going to) win the Cy? You get the gasoline, I will get the stake

 

[shadyridr]

Santana did not have a down year, by any measure. Oh, you mean he didn't (isn't going to) win the Cy? You get the gasoline, I will get the stake

For him it was a down year, for every other pitcher it was still and Ace type year.

 

[NY/NJMFDIVER]

Santana did not have a down year, by any measure. Oh, you mean he didn't (isn't going to) win the Cy? You get the gasoline, I will get the stake

Show me a stat he improved upon:http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/santajo02.shtml

Seriously.

Maybe I"m hyper aware of him because he's been a 3 year keeper on my fantasy team, but game to game, he was not the Johan of old, especially in the second half. He was still a damn good pitcher, but its not heresy to say he had a down year by his standards, it's factual.

Yes, he is amazing and outstanding all those things, but if are going to lock up unprecedented money to bring a slight guy to the north east who can't effectively handle his change up in cold weather, then you think about a lot of things. Johan 4 years at 20 per, fine, bring him in tomorrow, maybe they even dump Hughes for him, but if its 7 years, 190 million, no thanks.

 

[Sammy3469]

Not to diminish what Johan does, but he had a bit of a down year.

Wow....This is a down year?

http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=276371

219 IP, 235 Ks, 1.07 WHIP, 4:1 K:BB

You are out of your mind

Not that this ever happens but I agree with Wilked. Santana would have won the Cy Young pitching for the Yankees this year. I hope he ends up in the NL but Yankees fans are delusional if they think they can get him for anything less than your two best prospects (Hughes included) and probably a Melky Cabrera. Shouldn't have burned out your farm system and pray he doesn't get traded and becomes a FA because you're not getting him via trade. The Dodgers among others have a lot more to offer the Twins. Santana is by far, by far, by far (did I say by far?) the best pitcher in baseball and Hughes is a rookie with upside. To even suggest the Twins would deal Santana for Hughes is comical especially considering what the Twins have in their system as far as pitching prospects who are as good or better than Hughes (Bonser and Garza).

Awesome Yankee shtick.

Not that it changes the argument much, but Hughes is still generally considered the best prospect in baseball (and is still considered the best prospect out of Joba and Kennedywhile at this point Garza and Bosner are at least a notch if not more below him. At this point both Joba and Kennedy are also considered better prospects than either of those two. Having said that it would take at least two of Hughes, Joba, Kennedy, Cano, Cabrera (i.e. major league ready talent) to land him especially since the Dodgers can throw around a package that includes Kemp, LaRoche, etc. all of whom they are prepared to deal if need be this offseason.

 

[Capella]

Not that it changes the argument much, but Hughes is still generally considered the best prospect in baseball

Coming into this year, I don't recall seeing anything that had Hughes as the best prospect in baseball. He was in the 4-7 range generally.

 

[shadyridr]

Not that it changes the argument much, but Hughes is still generally considered the best prospect in baseball

Coming into this year, I don't recall seeing anything that had Hughes as the best prospect in baseball. He was in the 4-7 range generally.

I thought he was 2nd in Baseball America's top 100 before the year

 

[Sammy3469]

Santana did not have a down year, by any measure. Oh, you mean he didn't (isn't going to) win the Cy? You get the gasoline, I will get the stake

Show me a stat he improved upon:http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/santajo02.shtml

Seriously.

Maybe I"m hyper aware of him because he's been a 3 year keeper on my fantasy team, but game to game, he was not the Johan of old, especially in the second half. He was still a damn good pitcher, but its not heresy to say he had a down year by his standards, it's factual.

Yes, he is amazing and outstanding all those things, but if are going to lock up unprecedented money to bring a slight guy to the north east who can't effectively handle his change up in cold weather, then you think about a lot of things. Johan 4 years at 20 per, fine, bring him in tomorrow, maybe they even dump Hughes for him, but if its 7 years, 190 million, no thanks.

He's going to get more than Zito. Period. Even if they are willing to deal Wang it's going to take at least another from Hughes, Kennedy, Joba, Cabrera, Cano tier to get the deal done. Other teams are going to be willing to deal at least 2 if not three big league ready players with upside. The Twins aren't going to be willing to just give the guy away and its not like 2-time 28 year old Cy Young winners come on the market often. Every team will want a part of this auction (if the Twins even auction him).

Oh and if all it takes is Hughes and Cabrera to get the deal done, the Yankees should be jumping with joy. For all the love Cabrera gets from Yankees fans, he's currently a below average hitter in a year where the FA market is littered with CFs. Hell they could even go after ####udome and plug him in there.

 

[Sammy3469]

Not that it changes the argument much, but Hughes is still generally considered the best prospect in baseball

Coming into this year, I don't recall seeing anything that had Hughes as the best prospect in baseball. He was in the 4-7 range generally.

1-3 all graduated in Gordon, Dice-K, and Delmon Young....he's currently on the same upper ML ready tier as Upton and Buchholz with Bruce and to a lesser extent Rasmus in there somewhere but at least a year away. Scouts generally think he's still above Joba and certainly still above Kennedy. The guy's still only 21 and really did nothing to hurt the argument that he'll end up as an elite #1 starter.

 

[wilked]

NJMuffDiver is out of his mind...I think he said it best when he said that he is biased due to having him as a fantasy keeper

He is the best pitcher in baseball, period. He cannot, nor should he be expected to, win the Cy Young every year. However, if he was on a team with an offense he would be getting serious conisderation for the award.

 

[shadyridr]

Santana did not have a down year, by any measure. Oh, you mean he didn't (isn't going to) win the Cy? You get the gasoline, I will get the stake

Show me a stat he improved upon:http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/santajo02.shtml

Seriously.

Maybe I"m hyper aware of him because he's been a 3 year keeper on my fantasy team, but game to game, he was not the Johan of old, especially in the second half. He was still a damn good pitcher, but its not heresy to say he had a down year by his standards, it's factual.

Yes, he is amazing and outstanding all those things, but if are going to lock up unprecedented money to bring a slight guy to the north east who can't effectively handle his change up in cold weather, then you think about a lot of things. Johan 4 years at 20 per, fine, bring him in tomorrow, maybe they even dump Hughes for him, but if its 7 years, 190 million, no thanks.

He's going to get more than Zito. Period. Even if they are willing to deal Wang it's going to take at least another from Hughes, Kennedy, Joba, Cabrera, Cano tier to get the deal done. Other teams are going to be willing to deal at least 2 if not three big league ready players with upside. The Twins aren't going to be willing to just give the guy away and its not like 2-time 28 year old Cy Young winners come on the market often. Every team will want a part of this auction (if the Twins even auction him).

Oh and if all it takes is Hughes and Cabrera to get the deal done, the Yankees should be jumping with joy. For all the love Cabrera gets from Yankees fans, he's currently a below average hitter in a year where the FA market is littered with CFs. Hell they could even go after ####udome and plug him in there.

Im laughing at the editing out of F u k odome's name

 

[Tremendous Upside]

The more I think about it, the more I am convinced they need to resign Torre...Ideally for a two year contract...

These next two years are significant transition years, as we have some bad contracts ending (Giambi, Pavano, Farnsworth) and, hopefully, some more youth developing (especially in the rotation)...

That said, the Yanks are never goinng to "rebuild," so they are going to need some bridge veteran help to get them to the next stage of the franchise...

If the Yanks lose guys like Pettitte, Rivera, Posada, etc, they will be a scrambling team, and I fear they will compound their issues by chasing poor FA acquisitions...

Signing Torre would go a long way towards keeping those three (Pettitte has a player option) , as well as A-Rod, from everything I have read...

Give them

 

[NY/NJMFDIVER]

NJMuffDiver is out of his mind...I think he said it best when he said that he is biased due to having him as a fantasy keeperHe is the best pitcher in baseball, period. He cannot, nor should he be expected to, win the Cy Young every year. However, if he was on a team with an offense he would be getting serious conisderation for the award.

I don't give an F about any individual awards, really. I mean, at this stage of my life, its something nice to chew over as a kid, but I don't think Johan is better or worse for not winning an opinion award that those proferring their opinion are probably not in the position to make. He should have already won 3 straight, but they are window dressing and something for the hall of fame plaque. Look at his second half numbers from this past season. He had a 4.04 era, after being sub 2.00 era in 2 of the last 3 years. He did not finish strong, and I'm not denying he's the best pitcher in baseball. My issue is the risk/reward. Phil Hughes looks ready to be a contributor next year, though NOT Johan for sure. But is what you would pay in price of talent as well as the cash you tie up in him worth that single extra season of him? Look, if Johan were three years away from free agency, empty the cubboard for him. Prospects are suspects until proven otherwise, but he's a year away. Why would you commit if you were him? What is he worth to lock up for 7-8 years right now? How much more is he worth if he has a Johan level season. All I'm saying is, his second half dip coupled with an almost illogical will to sign when you could set the bar for pitcher's pay for the next decade, well, I wouldn't do it. Lesser prospects sure, but not the top of the line. What do you want me to tell you.Are you advocating dumping Bucholtz and Elisbury for him?

 

[Darth Cheney]

NJMuffDiver is out of his mind...I think he said it best when he said that he is biased due to having him as a fantasy keeperHe is the best pitcher in baseball, period. He cannot, nor should he be expected to, win the Cy Young every year. However, if he was on a team with an offense he would be getting serious conisderation for the award.

I don't give an F about any individual awards, really. I mean, at this stage of my life, its something nice to chew over as a kid, but I don't think Johan is better or worse for not winning an opinion award that those proferring their opinion are probably not in the position to make. He should have already won 3 straight, but they are window dressing and something for the hall of fame plaque. Look at his second half numbers from this past season. He had a 4.04 era, after being sub 2.00 era in 2 of the last 3 years. He did not finish strong, and I'm not denying he's the best pitcher in baseball. My issue is the risk/reward. Phil Hughes looks ready to be a contributor next year, though NOT Johan for sure. But is what you would pay in price of talent as well as the cash you tie up in him worth that single extra season of him? Look, if Johan were three years away from free agency, empty the cubboard for him. Prospects are suspects until proven otherwise, but he's a year away. Why would you commit if you were him? What is he worth to lock up for 7-8 years right now? How much more is he worth if he has a Johan level season. All I'm saying is, his second half dip coupled with an almost illogical will to sign when you could set the bar for pitcher's pay for the next decade, well, I wouldn't do it. Lesser prospects sure, but not the top of the line. What do you want me to tell you.Are you advocating dumping Bucholtz and Elisbury for him?

What you've fallen into is the typical Yankee-hater paradox scenario. If you deny Santana's ability as a pitcher versus the potential of the highly regarded Yankee prospects in a trade you are a fool for not going after a quality veteran. On the other hand, If you advocated trading the youngsters for Santana then you are a fool for selling the future. You should have asked if people would do Bucholtz/Ellsbury or Longoria/Upton for Santana at the beginning of the conversation.

 

[wilked]

I would do Buchholz for Santana in a second (provided they have an extension in place. Buch + Ells is a lot to ask, but it is worth considering.

Santana is IMO the best pitcher in the game right now

 

[wilked]

Look at his second half numbers from this past season.

SO/9IP	SO:BB	BB/9IP	WHIP10.10	5.00	2.02	1.12

Ya, those are putrid edit to addFor comparison, here are Sabathia's 2nd half numbers

SO/9IP	SO:BB	BB/9IP	WHIP7.56	4.74	1.60	1.11

 

[Tremendous Upside]

The only blip on Santana's stat line this year was homers allowed...

He's always allowed homers at a decent rate (just about 1 per 9 IP career), but this year it spiked to 1.35 and he led the league, 4 ahead of Javy Vazquez...

This is somewhat worrisome, as I could see his overall stats spike if his BB and K rates decay and his HR rates stay the same and/or get worse...

It's pretty much the only red flag on his resume, IMO...

 

[NY/NJMFDIVER]

Look at his second half numbers from this past season.

SO/9IP	SO:BB	BB/9IP	WHIP10.10	5.00	2.02	1.12

Ya, those are putrid edit to addFor comparison, here are Sabathia's 2nd half numbers

SO/9IP	SO:BB	BB/9IP	WHIP7.56	4.74	1.60	1.11

I don't think comparing him to CC is the answer in this argument. For the hundedth time, I have no problem with Johan, he's great, not denying it. We are talking about a convergence of factors here. His availbility, his cost in dollars and his cost in talent. You break down different factors. I'm not comparing him with Sabathia. When Sabathia enters the 25 million dollar a year stratosphere, then we'll talk but he's 2 more years like this year away from that. I'm comparing Johan to the fairest measuring stick, himself. Why don't you go pull his numbers from the second half of 06,05 and 04 and telll me that its not demonstratively different. Could be fluke, could be luck, but whatever it was, I would rather not explore it being fluke or trend while giving up top prospects for the right to do so. And I think you are nuts for entertaining moving Bucholz for Santana.

 

[shadyridr]

I think what NY/NJ is trying to say is, he'd rather have Hughes & Cabrera at cheaper contracts over the next few years where they then can spend their money shoring up other spots (possibly Johan as a FA) then trading Hughes and Cabrera for Johan. Then theyd give Johan a big contract and have to sign a CF to a big contract as well (Hunter?).

 

[wilked]

We are going in circles, but what more do you want from Johan? Is 10K/9IP not enough? Do you expact his WHIP to be <1? Do you think 2 BB/9IP is too high? The argument that Johan is the best pitcher in baseball is a strong one, and a similar argument that he is the best pitcher of the last 5 years or so is strong. If you think the Twins will take less then a top prospect for him, you are dreaming.

Let me put it this way - if the Yankees had Johan, they are likely still playing

 

[NY/NJMFDIVER]

My first preference is to bring Torre Back, and if he's gone, my first choice would be Showalter to replace him. I love Donnie, but I'd like to insulate him from directly following Torre. I think there is going to be some flux and it has the potential to be a transitional situation, especially weaving the young arms into bigger roles next year(as much a reason as any to keep Torre).

That said, it looks like Buck is not really holding any traction as far as consideration. Any candidates really need to be able to keep Mattingly around, I can't see Donnie being Girardi's hitting coach. For that, I'd look to another name from the past and think long and hard about Dave Righetti.

He's been a great pitching coach, he's been talked about as having managerial pedigree, he's got Yankee cache, and he was tight with Donnie. He's also tough and has handled NY before. I also wouldn't mind having him as kind of an overseer of the pitching staff. Supposedly he's been groomed to manage the Giants and he's a bay area guy, but how could he turn down coming back here with Bochy in line for the forseable future?

If you must change, he's someone I'd like to think about.

 

[Balco]

I would do Buchholz for Santana in a second (provided they have an extension in place. Buch + Ells is a lot to ask, but it is worth considering.

Santana is IMO the best pitcher in the game right now

COmpletely agree here. If the Twins wanted Ellsbury and Bucholtz, I would do that in a second (again provided the there is an extension). We are not a young team, as our core hitters are getting up there. But it would be worth it to have Santana. Santana and Beckett 1 & 2? Wow. Ellsbury would be the replacement for Hunter and would be under the Twins control for a while, and Bucholtz gives them a big time prospect to pair with Bonser, Garza, and Liriano.

 

[the moops]

I would do Buchholz for Santana in a second (provided they have an extension in place. Buch + Ells is a lot to ask, but it is worth considering.Santana is IMO the best pitcher in the game right now

The Sox would trade Buch and Ellsbury in a second for Santana if he agreed to an extension. Buchholz has about a 1% chance at being anywhere close to as good as Santana. Ellsbury is an excellent ballplayer, but they Sox are a far, far better team over the next 3-5 years with Santana/Crisp compared to Buchholz/Ellsbury and whatever Crisp can get you in a trade.I would trade Ellsbury/Youk/Buchholz for Santana (with an extension) in a heartbeat.

 

[Capella]

I would do Buchholz for Santana in a second (provided they have an extension in place. Buch + Ells is a lot to ask, but it is worth considering.Santana is IMO the best pitcher in the game right now

The Sox would trade Buch and Ellsbury in a second for Santana if he agreed to an extension. Buchholz has about a 1% chance at being anywhere close to as good as Santana. Ellsbury is an excellent ballplayer, but they Sox are a far, far better team over the next 3-5 years with Santana/Crisp compared to Buchholz/Ellsbury and whatever Crisp can get you in a trade.I would trade Ellsbury/Youk/Buchholz for Santana (with an extension) in a heartbeat.

 

[NY/NJMFDIVER]

I would do Buchholz for Santana in a second (provided they have an extension in place. Buch + Ells is a lot to ask, but it is worth considering.Santana is IMO the best pitcher in the game right now

The Sox would trade Buch and Ellsbury in a second for Santana if he agreed to an extension. Buchholz has about a 1% chance at being anywhere close to as good as Santana. Ellsbury is an excellent ballplayer, but they Sox are a far, far better team over the next 3-5 years with Santana/Crisp compared to Buchholz/Ellsbury and whatever Crisp can get you in a trade.I would trade Ellsbury/Youk/Buchholz for Santana (with an extension) in a heartbeat.

So you give Delmon and Upton for him then?

 

[Capella]

I would do Buchholz for Santana in a second (provided they have an extension in place. Buch + Ells is a lot to ask, but it is worth considering.Santana is IMO the best pitcher in the game right now

The Sox would trade Buch and Ellsbury in a second for Santana if he agreed to an extension. Buchholz has about a 1% chance at being anywhere close to as good as Santana. Ellsbury is an excellent ballplayer, but they Sox are a far, far better team over the next 3-5 years with Santana/Crisp compared to Buchholz/Ellsbury and whatever Crisp can get you in a trade.I would trade Ellsbury/Youk/Buchholz for Santana (with an extension) in a heartbeat.

So you give Delmon and Upton for him then?

Delmon and Upton are better than those two. Neither of those Boston or NY guys were ever considered the top prospect in the game. Both Delmon and Upton were.