***OFFICIAL Yankees offseason thread*** (1 Viewer)

[wilked]

So did the Yankees do anything to improve the team from last year, this offseason?Surprising for the team with by far the highest payroll

Nope. Not a thing but with the free agents available this offseason what could they have done? IMO they did everything right (ie didnt sign average FAs to big money deals & held onto their young players). Did the Sox do anything to improve their team? Nope

Well, the Red Sox are defending champions, so I am not sure it is appropriate to compare them. For the record I still expect them to move Coco and Tavarez (though you can argue that that hurts the team in the short-term, depending upon the return they receive)Back to the thread at hand, people point to the pitching, particularly the 1st half pitching of the Yankees, as reasons they will improve this year. This ignores the fact that they pitched *better* in the first half than the 2nd (check the ERA). As for their offense, no way they sustain those 2nd half numbers. People also forget that those were unprecedented numbers, no offense had done that before. Want to bet they do it again? Now, this isn't supposed to be a 'piss on the Yankees' thing, just interesting that as far back as I can really remember, this is the first offseason that the Yankees have not made significant move(s) during the offseason.

 

[ScottNorwood]

So did the Yankees do anything to improve the team from last year, this offseason?Surprising for the team with by far the highest payroll

Nope. Not a thing but with the free agents available this offseason what could they have done? IMO they did everything right (ie didnt sign average FAs to big money deals & held onto their young players). Did the Sox do anything to improve their team? Nope

Well, the Red Sox are defending champions, so I am not sure it is appropriate to compare them. For the record I still expect them to move Coco and Tavarez (though you can argue that that hurts the team in the short-term, depending upon the return they receive)Back to the thread at hand, people point to the pitching, particularly the 1st half pitching of the Yankees, as reasons they will improve this year. This ignores the fact that they pitched *better* in the first half than the 2nd (check the ERA). As for their offense, no way they sustain those 2nd half numbers. People also forget that those were unprecedented numbers, no offense had done that before. Want to bet they do it again? Now, this isn't supposed to be a 'piss on the Yankees' thing, just interesting that as far back as I can really remember, this is the first offseason that the Yankees have not made significant move(s) during the offseason.

Well thank God they didn't throw $40 mill at Silva or Lohse.

 

[shadyridr]

So did the Yankees do anything to improve the team from last year, this offseason?Surprising for the team with by far the highest payroll

Nope. Not a thing but with the free agents available this offseason what could they have done? IMO they did everything right (ie didnt sign average FAs to big money deals & held onto their young players). Did the Sox do anything to improve their team? Nope

Well, the Red Sox are defending champions, so I am not sure it is appropriate to compare them. For the record I still expect them to move Coco and Tavarez (though you can argue that that hurts the team in the short-term, depending upon the return they receive)Back to the thread at hand, people point to the pitching, particularly the 1st half pitching of the Yankees, as reasons they will improve this year. This ignores the fact that they pitched *better* in the first half than the 2nd (check the ERA). As for their offense, no way they sustain those 2nd half numbers. People also forget that those were unprecedented numbers, no offense had done that before. Want to bet they do it again? Now, this isn't supposed to be a 'piss on the Yankees' thing, just interesting that as far back as I can really remember, this is the first offseason that the Yankees have not made significant move(s) during the offseason.

Well what I was saying was the Yanks and Sox both had similar, smart offseason plans and they stuck to it.

 

[Liquid Tension]

So did the Yankees do anything to improve the team from last year, this offseason?Surprising for the team with by far the highest payroll

Nope. Not a thing but with the free agents available this offseason what could they have done? IMO they did everything right (ie didnt sign average FAs to big money deals & held onto their young players). Did the Sox do anything to improve their team? Nope

Well, the Red Sox are defending champions, so I am not sure it is appropriate to compare them. For the record I still expect them to move Coco and Tavarez (though you can argue that that hurts the team in the short-term, depending upon the return they receive)Back to the thread at hand, people point to the pitching, particularly the 1st half pitching of the Yankees, as reasons they will improve this year. This ignores the fact that they pitched *better* in the first half than the 2nd (check the ERA). As for their offense, no way they sustain those 2nd half numbers. People also forget that those were unprecedented numbers, no offense had done that before. Want to bet they do it again? Now, this isn't supposed to be a 'piss on the Yankees' thing, just interesting that as far back as I can really remember, this is the first offseason that the Yankees have not made significant move(s) during the offseason.

Nobody getting ticked here...The Santana deal was huge and a Bedard trade would be big as well, but the Yanks only need a lefty specialist in the pen so why spend money for things they don;t really need.You also pointed out the incredible offense the Yanks had in the 2nd half and I don't expect them to repeat that, however, their first half was way under performing so being just a tiny bit less for the year is expected (I pointed this out in another post when I went through every Yankee).As for the pitching, looking at the final month or so may be a better barometer than the entire 2nd half.

 

[shadyridr]

So did the Yankees do anything to improve the team from last year, this offseason?Surprising for the team with by far the highest payroll

Nope. Not a thing but with the free agents available this offseason what could they have done? IMO they did everything right (ie didnt sign average FAs to big money deals & held onto their young players). Did the Sox do anything to improve their team? Nope

Well, the Red Sox are defending champions, so I am not sure it is appropriate to compare them. For the record I still expect them to move Coco and Tavarez (though you can argue that that hurts the team in the short-term, depending upon the return they receive)Back to the thread at hand, people point to the pitching, particularly the 1st half pitching of the Yankees, as reasons they will improve this year. This ignores the fact that they pitched *better* in the first half than the 2nd (check the ERA). As for their offense, no way they sustain those 2nd half numbers. People also forget that those were unprecedented numbers, no offense had done that before. Want to bet they do it again? Now, this isn't supposed to be a 'piss on the Yankees' thing, just interesting that as far back as I can really remember, this is the first offseason that the Yankees have not made significant move(s) during the offseason.

Also, I predict the Yanks to have 88-90 wins. Who was available that wouldve improved that # without giving up Hughes or Chamberlain?

 

[wilked]

The Yankees biggest weakness is the Pen. Frankly my opinion is that Ensberg will cost them more than he will help them, so I don't see him as an answer. There were some med risk high reward guys that switched teams this offseason, I think the Yankees would have done well to grab 1-2 of them.

As it is now the Yankees are planning on having Joba as a starter for the majority of the year, which I assume moves Mussina to the Pen. A Joba-less pen has the makings of a lot of games lost in the 7th/8th innings, in my opnion.

That said, I agree with whoever had them at high 80s/low 90s for wins, which will put them in the thick of the playoff hunt

 

[Liquid Tension]

The Yankees biggest weakness is the Pen. Frankly my opinion is that Ensberg will cost them more than he will help them, so I don't see him as an answer. There were some med risk high reward guys that switched teams this offseason, I think the Yankees would have done well to grab 1-2 of them. As it is now the Yankees are planning on having Joba as a starter for the majority of the year, which I assume moves Mussina to the Pen. A Joba-less pen has the makings of a lot of games lost in the 7th/8th innings, in my opnion.That said, I agree with whoever had them at high 80s/low 90s for wins, which will put them in the thick of the playoff hunt

I mentioned before no lefty and this is a big problem, but I think the Yanks have a lot of good arms in the pen that if used smarter (clearly Torre's weakness) they could effective. There are 3-4 guys that have good stuff.Ignorant question, who is the pitching coach now; is Guidry gone?

 

[Liquid Tension]

FWIW, the odds makers have the Yankees 2nd best and Detroit 3rd.

Boston Red Sox 9/4

New York Yankees 11/4

Detroit Tigers 7/2

Los Angeles Angels 11/2

Cleveland Indians 6/1

or to make it easier

Boston Red Sox 9/4

New York Yankees 11/4

Detroit Tigers 14/4

Los Angeles Angels 22/4

Cleveland Indians 24/4

 

[shadyridr]

The Yankees biggest weakness is the Pen. Frankly my opinion is that Ensberg will cost them more than he will help them, so I don't see him as an answer. There were some med risk high reward guys that switched teams this offseason, I think the Yankees would have done well to grab 1-2 of them. As it is now the Yankees are planning on having Joba as a starter for the majority of the year, which I assume moves Mussina to the Pen. A Joba-less pen has the makings of a lot of games lost in the 7th/8th innings, in my opnion.That said, I agree with whoever had them at high 80s/low 90s for wins, which will put them in the thick of the playoff hunt

I mentioned before no lefty and this is a big problem, but I think the Yanks have a lot of good arms in the pen that if used smarter (clearly Torre's weakness) they could effective. There are 3-4 guys that have good stuff.Ignorant question, who is the pitching coach now; is Guidry gone?

Dave Eiland

 

[shadyridr]

FWIW, the odds makers have the Yankees 2nd best and Detroit 3rd. Boston Red Sox 9/4 New York Yankees 11/4 Detroit Tigers 7/2 Los Angeles Angels 11/2 Cleveland Indians 6/1 or to make it easier Boston Red Sox 9/4 New York Yankees 11/4 Detroit Tigers 14/4 Los Angeles Angels 22/4 Cleveland Indians 24/4

That doesnt really mean they think theyre the 2nd best team.

 

[Clifton]

Yankees taking a look at Bedard

 

[NY/NJMFDIVER]

Yankees taking a look at Bedard

This report disputes that

 

[Clifton]

Yankees taking a look at Bedard

Great, so you just proved to me the Pats were robbed. I knew they got screwed somehow.

 

[Liquid Tension]

The Yankees biggest weakness is the Pen. Frankly my opinion is that Ensberg will cost them more than he will help them, so I don't see him as an answer. There were some med risk high reward guys that switched teams this offseason, I think the Yankees would have done well to grab 1-2 of them. As it is now the Yankees are planning on having Joba as a starter for the majority of the year, which I assume moves Mussina to the Pen. A Joba-less pen has the makings of a lot of games lost in the 7th/8th innings, in my opnion.That said, I agree with whoever had them at high 80s/low 90s for wins, which will put them in the thick of the playoff hunt

I mentioned before no lefty and this is a big problem, but I think the Yanks have a lot of good arms in the pen that if used smarter (clearly Torre's weakness) they could effective. There are 3-4 guys that have good stuff.Ignorant question, who is the pitching coach now; is Guidry gone?

Dave Eiland

Thats right...thanks

 

[Liquid Tension]

FWIW, the odds makers have the Yankees 2nd best and Detroit 3rd. Boston Red Sox 9/4 New York Yankees 11/4 Detroit Tigers 7/2 Los Angeles Angels 11/2 Cleveland Indians 6/1 or to make it easier Boston Red Sox 9/4 New York Yankees 11/4 Detroit Tigers 14/4 Los Angeles Angels 22/4 Cleveland Indians 24/4

That doesnt really mean they think theyre the 2nd best team.

Well, they do think the odds of them winning the AL are the 2nd best. One could argue that lines are made to make the action equal and there are more Yankee fans so there numbers are artificially higher, but in general it is a good gauge.

 

[Balco]

Reason Number 4,456,000 not to listen to anything Hank Steinbrenner says:

Joba back to the Pen

I was the minority on this board in saying that Joba belongs in the pen, he makes the Yankees a better team pitching the 8th as a bridge to Rivera.

 

[shadyridr]

Reason Number 4,456,000 not to listen to anything Hank Steinbrenner says:

Joba back to the Pen

I was the minority on this board in saying that Joba belongs in the pen, he makes the Yankees a better team pitching the 8th as a bridge to Rivera.

Nobody disagreed with you that he makes the Yanks a better team THIS YEAR pitching out of the bullpen. But for the long run he makes the Yanks a better team as a starter. Everything Ive read is they are gonna stretch him out as much as possible in spring training but that they are going to move him to the bullpen either in the beginning of the season or the end of the season to limit his innings but he will start a decent amount of games this year. Think Yovani Gallardo from last year.

 

[ScottNorwood]

Kennedy and Hughes are roughly the same age. Why is there no talk about limiting their innings?

 

[shadyridr]

Kennedy and Hughes are roughly the same age. Why is there no talk about limiting their innings?

Hughes has been in the minor league system for more years than Kennedy & Joba. Kennedy also had alot more innings pitched in college.

 

[Balco]

Reason Number 4,456,000 not to listen to anything Hank Steinbrenner says:

Joba back to the Pen

I was the minority on this board in saying that Joba belongs in the pen, he makes the Yankees a better team pitching the 8th as a bridge to Rivera.

Nobody disagreed with you that he makes the Yanks a better team THIS YEAR pitching out of the bullpen. But for the long run he makes the Yanks a better team as a starter. Everything Ive read is they are gonna stretch him out as much as possible in spring training but that they are going to move him to the bullpen either in the beginning of the season or the end of the season to limit his innings but he will start a decent amount of games this year. Think Yovani Gallardo from last year.

I think Joba obviously is the heir to Mo Rivera in the pen. My argument is that Joba belongs in the pen, permanently. The Red Sox foolishly toyed with the idea of moving Pappelbon back to the rotation, but thought better of it.

 

[Sammy3469]

Kennedy and Hughes are roughly the same age. Why is there no talk about limiting their innings?

there is...Cashman (or some other Yankee guy who knows what he's doing) said neither will increase their IPs this year by more than 10%.

 

[Liquid Tension]

Reason Number 4,456,000 not to listen to anything Hank Steinbrenner says:

Joba back to the Pen

I was the minority on this board in saying that Joba belongs in the pen, he makes the Yankees a better team pitching the 8th as a bridge to Rivera.

Nobody disagreed with you that he makes the Yanks a better team THIS YEAR pitching out of the bullpen. But for the long run he makes the Yanks a better team as a starter. Everything Ive read is they are gonna stretch him out as much as possible in spring training but that they are going to move him to the bullpen either in the beginning of the season or the end of the season to limit his innings but he will start a decent amount of games this year. Think Yovani Gallardo from last year.

I think Joba obviously is the heir to Mo Rivera in the pen. My argument is that Joba belongs in the pen, permanently. The Red Sox foolishly toyed with the idea of moving Pappelbon back to the rotation, but thought better of it.

This is interesting in how they are handling Joba. My take is that they will start him in the pen and see how the other starters do (including Mussina), see how the other guys in the pen do and the decide what to do with Joba. If nobody steps up to be a reasonable bridge to Rivera then they will probably leave Joba in the pen. But, make no mistake, a starter is more valuable than a reliever even when you take into account the more important innings (per inning) a reliever pithes. A closer is more in line, but a starter still pitches at least twice the innings as a reliever and that is more valuable to the team. So do you want a great arm pitching less or more innings (forgetting the pitch count)? the answer is more so they want to groom him for that role.

I think the way the Yanks are handling the situation makes sense.

 

[bialczabub]

Reason Number 4,456,000 not to listen to anything Hank Steinbrenner says:

Joba back to the Pen

I was the minority on this board in saying that Joba belongs in the pen, he makes the Yankees a better team pitching the 8th as a bridge to Rivera.

Nobody disagreed with you that he makes the Yanks a better team THIS YEAR pitching out of the bullpen. But for the long run he makes the Yanks a better team as a starter. Everything Ive read is they are gonna stretch him out as much as possible in spring training but that they are going to move him to the bullpen either in the beginning of the season or the end of the season to limit his innings but he will start a decent amount of games this year. Think Yovani Gallardo from last year.

I think Joba obviously is the heir to Mo Rivera in the pen. My argument is that Joba belongs in the pen, permanently. The Red Sox foolishly toyed with the idea of moving Pappelbon back to the rotation, but thought better of it.

I disagree. I would much rather see Joba give the Yanks 200+ innings a season in the prime of his career than the 75-95 innings a closer gets.Rivera is such a great closer because of the type of pitcher he is: a small number of devastating pitches very effective for an inning or two. If Joba can develop into a starter, why not have him pitch more?

 

[bialczabub]

Reason Number 4,456,000 not to listen to anything Hank Steinbrenner says:

Joba back to the Pen

I was the minority on this board in saying that Joba belongs in the pen, he makes the Yankees a better team pitching the 8th as a bridge to Rivera.

Nobody disagreed with you that he makes the Yanks a better team THIS YEAR pitching out of the bullpen. But for the long run he makes the Yanks a better team as a starter. Everything Ive read is they are gonna stretch him out as much as possible in spring training but that they are going to move him to the bullpen either in the beginning of the season or the end of the season to limit his innings but he will start a decent amount of games this year. Think Yovani Gallardo from last year.

I think Joba obviously is the heir to Mo Rivera in the pen. My argument is that Joba belongs in the pen, permanently. The Red Sox foolishly toyed with the idea of moving Pappelbon back to the rotation, but thought better of it.

This is interesting in how they are handling Joba. My take is that they will start him in the pen and see how the other starters do (including Mussina), see how the other guys in the pen do and the decide what to do with Joba. If nobody steps up to be a reasonable bridge to Rivera then they will probably leave Joba in the pen. But, make no mistake, a starter is more valuable than a reliever even when you take into account the more important innings (per inning) a reliever pithes. A closer is more in line, but a starter still pitches at least twice the innings as a reliever and that is more valuable to the team. So do you want a great arm pitching less or more innings (forgetting the pitch count)? the answer is more so they want to groom him for that role.

I think the way the Yanks are handling the situation makes sense.

I don't think the Yankees see starting the season with Joba in the pen as a free option. I think they're doing math like this...start him in the pen, then at the All-Star Break, he'll have maybe 40 innings under his belt. Move him to the rotation, than we have him as a full-time starter for the entire second half of the season and we still keep him under his innings limit.

It is their full intent to move him to the rotation, but if they put him there from Opening Day, they would have to either arbitrarily limit his IP in early season games or late season games to keep him under 140 for the season. Five man rotation, barring injuries, is 32 starts per guy in the rotation. That's a whopping 4 1/3 innings per start over the course of the season to keep him under the limit.

 

[NY/NJMFDIVER]

What are the odds Pettite retires in the next week or 2? I'm putting it 30-70 he's gone. Less likely but very realistic.

 

[bialczabub]

What are the odds Pettite retires in the next week or 2? I'm putting it 30-70 he's gone. Less likely but very realistic.

I don't think it's definite.He's washed his hands of the whole business by telling Congress what they wanted to hear about a bigger fish (Clemens).

 

[NY/NJMFDIVER]

What are the odds Pettite retires in the next week or 2? I'm putting it 30-70 he's gone. Less likely but very realistic.

I don't think it's definite.He's washed his hands of the whole business by telling Congress what they wanted to hear about a bigger fish (Clemens).

Damn I wrote that BEFORE I saw that he postponed his spring arrival to Monday. I'm sure thats exactly what he's contemplating this weekend. Right now, I move my odds to 50-50 that he's not there Monday.

 

[pillowpants]

What are the odds Pettite retires in the next week or 2? I'm putting it 30-70 he's gone. Less likely but very realistic.

I don't think it's definite.He's washed his hands of the whole business by telling Congress what they wanted to hear about a bigger fish (Clemens).

Damn I wrote that BEFORE I saw that he postponed his spring arrival to Monday. I'm sure thats exactly what he's contemplating this weekend. Right now, I move my odds to 50-50 that he's not there Monday.

I hope not. I'd really like for him to be there one more year so the kids can soak up some more knoledge from him.

 

[Liquid Tension]

Reason Number 4,456,000 not to listen to anything Hank Steinbrenner says:

Joba back to the Pen

I was the minority on this board in saying that Joba belongs in the pen, he makes the Yankees a better team pitching the 8th as a bridge to Rivera.

Nobody disagreed with you that he makes the Yanks a better team THIS YEAR pitching out of the bullpen. But for the long run he makes the Yanks a better team as a starter. Everything Ive read is they are gonna stretch him out as much as possible in spring training but that they are going to move him to the bullpen either in the beginning of the season or the end of the season to limit his innings but he will start a decent amount of games this year. Think Yovani Gallardo from last year.

I think Joba obviously is the heir to Mo Rivera in the pen. My argument is that Joba belongs in the pen, permanently. The Red Sox foolishly toyed with the idea of moving Pappelbon back to the rotation, but thought better of it.

This is interesting in how they are handling Joba. My take is that they will start him in the pen and see how the other starters do (including Mussina), see how the other guys in the pen do and the decide what to do with Joba. If nobody steps up to be a reasonable bridge to Rivera then they will probably leave Joba in the pen. But, make no mistake, a starter is more valuable than a reliever even when you take into account the more important innings (per inning) a reliever pithes. A closer is more in line, but a starter still pitches at least twice the innings as a reliever and that is more valuable to the team. So do you want a great arm pitching less or more innings (forgetting the pitch count)? the answer is more so they want to groom him for that role.

I think the way the Yanks are handling the situation makes sense.

I don't think the Yankees see starting the season with Joba in the pen as a free option. I think they're doing math like this...start him in the pen, then at the All-Star Break, he'll have maybe 40 innings under his belt. Move him to the rotation, than we have him as a full-time starter for the entire second half of the season and we still keep him under his innings limit.

It is their full intent to move him to the rotation, but if they put him there from Opening Day, they would have to either arbitrarily limit his IP in early season games or late season games to keep him under 140 for the season. Five man rotation, barring injuries, is 32 starts per guy in the rotation. That's a whopping 4 1/3 innings per start over the course of the season to keep him under the limit.

You and I are on the same page, but the slight difference is that I believe the teams performance may alter the time line of moving Joba to the rotation. In other words, let's say Wang continues his solid pitching, Pettitte, Hughes and Kennedy combine for an ERA in the 3.8-4.2 range, Mussina is giving them a 4.5 and Rivera gets hurt...I could see leaving Joba in the pen this year. Possibly if nobody else in the pen steps up with the starters doing well they may leave him there as well.Have a plan, but don't be afraid to alter the plan if things fall differently than you expected.

The long range goal is to get Joba in the rotation.