OVER THE PAST FEW YEARS: Team with worst management? (1 Viewer)

[BlueOnion]

This could really be a fun 8-franchise tournament bracket for voting:1) Detroit8) Buffalo5) NY Jets4) New Orleans3) Oakland6) San Francisco7) Houston2) Tennessee

Not including Minnesota here MUST be an oversight.

Scups, your not the same quality stalker you use to be. Here is my post regarding the Vikings management.

Minnesota should get some consideration. Trading away their star receiver and then letting their franchise QB walk? hmmm.

There are a few Minnesota regimes that deserve ridicule; Red McCombs, Jeff Diamond and 12-headed monster before them. I cannot recall there ever being good management in Minnesota. Fortunately, the franchise has been consistently successful.Since 1985, the franchise has only had 3 losing seasons.

 

[MelvinTScupper]

You're right, I'm not a stalker.

Bottom line, the Vikings traded away 5-8 yrs in the Herschel Walker deal. They've never appeared to have any savvy in the drafting/trading dept. For every Daunte Culpepper Denny Green had, he had 2 Demetrius Underwoods.

 

[BlueOnion]

You're right, I'm not a stalker.Bottom line, the Vikings traded away 5-8 yrs in the Herschel Walker deal. They've never appeared to have any savvy in the drafting/trading dept. For every Daunte Culpepper Denny Green had, he had 2 Demetrius Underwoods.

Like I said, it is hard to find anything positive to say about the Vikings' front office activity. However, it is hard to question their track record.3 losing seasons since 1985? And these are considered the 'dark years' (post Grant).

 

[redman]

You're right, I'm not a stalker.Bottom line, the Vikings traded away 5-8 yrs in the Herschel Walker deal. They've never appeared to have any savvy in the drafting/trading dept. For every Daunte Culpepper Denny Green had, he had 2 Demetrius Underwoods.

Like I said, it is hard to find anything positive to say about the Vikings' front office activity. However, it is hard to question their track record.3 losing seasons since 1985? And these are considered the 'dark years' (post Grant).

I would respectfully suggest that being in the same division over the past two decades with the Bears, Lions and (until recently) Bucs may have significantly contributed to that success. I'm not saying that it's meaningless, but as with San Fran who benefitted all those years from the weak NFC West, you should take it into account.

 

[BlueOnion]

You're right, I'm not a stalker.Bottom line, the Vikings traded away 5-8 yrs in the Herschel Walker deal. They've never appeared to have any savvy in the drafting/trading dept. For every Daunte Culpepper Denny Green had, he had 2 Demetrius Underwoods.

Like I said, it is hard to find anything positive to say about the Vikings' front office activity. However, it is hard to question their track record.3 losing seasons since 1985? And these are considered the 'dark years' (post Grant).

I would respectfully suggest that being in the same division over the past two decades with the Bears, Lions and (until recently) Bucs may have significantly contributed to that success. I'm not saying that it's meaningless, but as with San Fran who benefitted all those years from the weak NFC West, you should take it into account.

Fair enough, and I would agree. But that only reinforces my original position.

 

[redman]

You're right, I'm not a stalker.Bottom line, the Vikings traded away 5-8 yrs in the Herschel Walker deal. They've never appeared to have any savvy in the drafting/trading dept. For every Daunte Culpepper Denny Green had, he had 2 Demetrius Underwoods.

Like I said, it is hard to find anything positive to say about the Vikings' front office activity. However, it is hard to question their track record.3 losing seasons since 1985? And these are considered the 'dark years' (post Grant).

I would respectfully suggest that being in the same division over the past two decades with the Bears, Lions and (until recently) Bucs may have significantly contributed to that success. I'm not saying that it's meaningless, but as with San Fran who benefitted all those years from the weak NFC West, you should take it into account.

Fair enough, and I would agree. But that only reinforces my original position.

It would be interesting to see a ranking of teams by playoff wins per winning season or per playoff appearance to get an idea of how "efficiently" each team takes advantage of its playoff opportunities. This is just me day dreaming . . .

 

[Hinezer]

This could really be a fun 8-franchise tournament bracket for voting:1) Detroit8) Buffalo5) NY Jets4) New Orleans3) Oakland6) San Francisco7) Houston2) Tennessee

Not including Minnesota here MUST be an oversight.

Minnesota's last three years they were 9-7, 8-8, and 9-7. And they're 1-0 this year. That's not "league worst" territory, though you could certainly argue that they should have done better.

I'm not sure I get this. The Vikings trade Moss and improve by a game. They trade Culpepper and they may improve their record again this year. How is that get them mentioned in the "league worst"?

Please. Strong management would have gotten something for 2 Pro-Bowl players in their prime years. I'm not saying the TEAM is the worst, I'm saying the mgmt is.

Alright, if the management has been so bad, explain to me how the team is still good and contending for the playoffs. They did lose those 2 Pro-Bowlers in their prime. Who is responsible for the success? Mike Tice?You also ignore the fact that they have the best cap management team in the league. They continue to spend and spend every offseason and still have lots of cap room in the future.

 

[Pugsley]

And with Millen, it goes way beyond all of those blown draft picks. It's the Bill Schroeder and Az Hakim signings. It's the Morhningweg and Marriucci debacles. It's the Johnnie Morton ###### incident. It's trading a draft pick for Ty Detmer and then watching him throw 7 interceptions later that week. Ugh.

Ugh, you said Ty Detmer. Must....find......happy.....place.......What makes that move worse is that the Lions traded away a 4th rounder when it was likely he was just going to be cut anyway.While there are many good arguments as to who has the worse management in the NFL, I believe the Lions have the worse combination of Ownership and Management. After four seasons and a 16-48 Millen was given a five year extension. It's easy to blame Millen for all of the Lions woes, but in reality it's the owners fault for handing over the keys to the team and letting him drive the franchise into the ground. The only guy who seems to have a clue as to what he's doing in the entire organization is Tom Lewand, the salary cap specialist. Otherwise, it's the Stupid (Matt Millen) leading the blind (William Clay Ford Sr.).

 

[MelvinTScupper]

1) Alright, if the management has been so bad, explain to me how the team is still good and contending for the playoffs. They did lose those 2 Pro-Bowlers in their prime. Who is responsible for the success? Mike Tice?2) You also ignore the fact that they have the best cap management team in the league. They continue to spend and spend every offseason and still have lots of cap room in the future.

1) The really, really bad division helps. A lot. No, more than that. More.2) Best cap management? You mean, not spending to get free agents? Yeah, that's really helped.

 

[S.K.A.]

After reading a lot of this thread, I would like to change my vote from Oakland to Detroit. Thanks, will answer yours.

 

[hacman]

Regarding the Niners' fade to oblivion, here's an article from a local beat writer last week that is somewhat of a synopsis:

Rock Bottom

Rock Bottom

Owner, management, players, draft picks - all helped put the 49ers into this mess

By MATT MAIOCCO

THE PRESS DEMOCRAT

SANTA CLARA - Mike Nolan started studying the foibles of the 49ers' previous regime when he became a candidate for the coaching opening in January 2005.

"I looked at it and asked, 'Why is it not going right? '" Nolan said. "During that process, there are a whole lot of people willing to tell you what it was. There are alumni up and down the Bay Area who'll tell you what they think it is."

So what did Nolan conclude?

"The talent level and the structure in the building (were) the two biggest things," he said.

Coach Steve Mariucci led the 49ers to back-to-back postseason appearances in 2001 and '02, but owner John York unceremoniously fired him a few days after a playoff loss to Tampa Bay.

"This is not a performance issue that has forced us to reach this decision," York said on firing Mariucci on Jan. 15, 2003.

York put his trust in general manager Terry Donahue. Two seasons later , when York fired Donahue, it clearly was a performance issue. So now the 49ers are in the second season of a complete makeover under Nolan and vice president of player personnel Scot McCloughan.

The 49ers have won 13 games the past three seasons. They share the worst record in the NFL, with the Raiders, over that period. Here is a look at how it got to this point:

Missteps by ownership

York put together the management structure of Donahue-Mariucci, a union that did not have a chance because of each man's feelings toward the other. Donahue became York's most-trusted employee, as he was assigned the responsibility of hiring a head coach (Dennis Erickson).

Even though Donahue had done little to earn a vote of confidence, he received a four-year contract extension four months before York fired him. York hired Nolan in January 2005. The team's philosophy is to build through the draft and eschew the temptation to sign veteran free agents for a quick fix.

Fruitless drafts

Under Donahue, the 49ers' drafts were miserable.

Since 1999, Donahue's first draft as player personnel director, the 49ers' first-round picks were defensive tackle Reggie McGrew ('99), linebacker Julian Peterson (2000), cornerback Ahmed Plummer (2000), defensive end Andre Carter ('01), cornerback Mike Rumph ('02), tackle Kwame Harris ('03) and receiver Rashaun Woods ('04).

Peterson is Donahue's only draft pick to be selected for a Pro Bowl, and Harris is the only one of Donahue's top picks still on the 49ers' roster. Not only did the 49ers fail to draft star players, they also chose very few players who made any significant contributions.

Bad cap management

The 49ers buried themselves so deep in the salary cap that Donahue said he asked the team's capologist, Paraag Marathe , to draft a plan for getting healthy. What resulted was a roster purge of some of the team's top veterans after the 2003 season.

The offense ranked fifth in the NFL in 2003. But when seven primary offensive starters did not return the next season - most notably, receiver Terrell Owens and quarterback Jeff Garcia - the offense fell to 26th.

Then, the 49ers made poor decisions to re-sign cornerback Ahmed Plummer and running back Kevan Barlow to lucrative contracts - money that was not spent well.

Now, the 49ers' cap management is almost too good. They start this season $10 million under the cap, which means the 49ers missed opportunities to add some good players in free agency to improve their suspect defense.

No plan at quarterback

The 49ers released Garcia after the 2003 season without having any proven player to take his spot. They did not even make an effort to sign a veteran quarterback, choosing instead to go with three players who came to the organization as seventh-round draft picks.

Tim Rattay, Ken Dorsey and Cody Pickett were the team's quarterbacks in 2004. After a 2-14 season under Donahue and Erickson, the new regime of Nolan and McCloughan came aboard and selected quarterback Alex Smith with the No. 1 overall pick last year.

The Terrell Owens factor

This list would not be complete without giving proper blame to Owens, who was merely warming up for the destruction he wrought on the Philadelphia Eagles.

Owens' battles with Mariucci helped divide the organization. Owens did not try to hide his personal grudges. He tried to undermine Mariucci at every opportunity after Mariucci suspended him for a game in 2000 for nearly inciting a riot at Texas Stadium when he posed on the Cowboys' logo at midfield after two touchdowns.

Then, Owens started challenging Garcia. The team's top two offensive players did not even speak to each other during the end of their time together. The entire offense was built around Owens; when he left, so did the team's offensive production. (END)

-----------------------

IMO, the tumor in the organization was Terry Donahue. John York was a successful businessman who had the Niners fall into his lap when DeBartolo was busted in Louisiana. (York is married to DeBartolo's sister.) York, who is very awkward in the public eye, tried to apply what worked for him in another arena to running a football team and the results were disastrous. He was shmoozed by Terry Donahue and let him run the football team into the ground. Four months after extending Donahue's contract, York woke up to the rotten smell of Niners headquarters and fired him.

I'm a guy who wears a "Dump York" on Sundays, but I will give him credit for firing Donahue just four months after re-upping him. That must not have been easy, but it was the right thing to do. Hiring Nolan to head operations seems like a good hire at this point, but it's going to take awhile.

But there is optimism for the first time in a long time.

 

[Pip's Invitation]

If, as a previous poster stated, this question is really best broken down into categories, I think the Vikings deserve the nod for Doing The Least With The Most Talent.

 

[BlueOnion]

More 49er bad management evidence:

Having gone 4-12, 2-14 and 7-9 one would think the 49ers would acquiring young talent and rebuilding. However, when you look at there cap situation, they are trying to balance a salary cap with 20 million in dead money. Even Daniel Snyder doesn't spend that foolishly.

49er Salary Cap

And it wasn't that long ago that the 49ers were in a similar spot with T.O. and Jeff Garcia and everybody asked, 'how did they get wrapped up in such bad contracts?' Well, they did it again.

 

[hacman]

Now is a good time to reassess the deadbeats in the league. I’m not ashamed to say I stuck up for my Niners back in Week 2 in the “Whose management is worse- the 49ers vs. Raiders” sub-plot of this thread.

Specifically, I’d like to see if CalBear is still clinging to his arguments that the Raiders are better run than the Niners and if he still thinks Nolan is a “moron” as he stated here.

Also, contrary to Blue Onion’s doom-and-gloom post that is before this one, San Francisco, in reality, will be around $40 million under the cap heading into 2007. So is Tennessee, who was another franchise that was named in this thread. It appears things are looking rosier for both the Niners and the Titans in the short and long-term.

With the 2006 season in the rear-view mirror, who do we nominate for the worst-run NFL franchise?

 

[Limp Ditka]

Now is a good time to reassess the deadbeats in the league. I’m not ashamed to say I stuck up for my Niners back in Week 2 in the “Whose management is worse- the 49ers vs. Raiders” sub-plot of this thread. Specifically, I’d like to see if CalBear is still clinging to his arguments that the Raiders are better run than the Niners and if he still thinks Nolan is a “moron” as he stated here.Also, contrary to Blue Onion’s doom-and-gloom post that is before this one, San Francisco, in reality, will be around $40 million under the cap heading into 2007. So is Tennessee, who was another franchise that was named in this thread. It appears things are looking rosier for both the Niners and the Titans in the short and long-term. With the 2006 season in the rear-view mirror, who do we nominate for the worst-run NFL franchise?

Oakland, Arizona and Detroit should be the top 3 contenders.

 

[Frenchy Fuqua]

Cleveland.

 

[Godsbrother]

Oakland, Arizona and Detroit should be the top 3 contenders.

Why no love for Cleveland? Since rejoing the league 7 years ago they only have one winning season (9-7 in 2002) and have had double digit losses in all but 2 seasons.Worse still they have yet to draft a Pro Bowl player, despite consistently having very high picks. Even their FAs haven't been to Pro Bowls (only Jamir Miller in 2002). That's pretty bad...

 

[CalBear]

Specifically, I’d like to see if CalBear is still clinging to his arguments that the Raiders are better run than the Niners and if he still thinks Nolan is a “moron” as he stated here.

I still think the Niners are badly run and I still think Nolan is a moron, yes. Worse than the Raiders, maybe not, after seeing this season. Nolan managed to coach the Niners to the #26 defense and #26 offense, and #32 in points allowed. Woo. Alex Smith is a bust, Vernon Davis was a wasted pick, and they were led in receiving by a guy who will start out 2007 on suspension. The only good thing that happened for the Niners this year is Frank Gore, and while he certainly had an impressive season, the team still needs help virtually everywhere else.

 

[Weapon of Mass Instruction]

Quick, name a good TEN FA move.

Kyle Vanden Bosch -- probowl in first year.Chris HopeDavid ThorntonRobaire SmithTravis Henry (trade)Kevin Mawae

 

[hacman]

Specifically, I’d like to see if CalBear is still clinging to his arguments that the Raiders are better run than the Niners and if he still thinks Nolan is a “moron” as he stated here.

I still think the Niners are badly run and I still think Nolan is a moron, yes. Worse than the Raiders, maybe not, after seeing this season. Nolan managed to coach the Niners to the #26 defense and #26 offense, and #32 in points allowed. Woo. Alex Smith is a bust, Vernon Davis was a wasted pick, and they were led in receiving by a guy who will start out 2007 on suspension. The only good thing that happened for the Niners this year is Frank Gore, and while he certainly had an impressive season, the team still needs help virtually everywhere else.

So, he’s a moron by coaxing 7 wins out of team that is number 26 in offense and defense. That sounds like the very definition of a moron. Also, too early to call A Smith and Davis busted/wasted picks. By that rational, Gore was a wasted pick this time last year. Most knowledgeable observers would say that Smith progressed over last year and that Davis progressed over the beginning of the year... The team needs help on defense, for sure, but it is on its way.

 

[Limp Ditka]

Oakland, Arizona and Detroit should be the top 3 contenders.

Why no love for Cleveland? Since rejoing the league 7 years ago they only have one winning season (9-7 in 2002) and have had double digit losses in all but 2 seasons.Worse still they have yet to draft a Pro Bowl player, despite consistently having very high picks. Even their FAs haven't been to Pro Bowls (only Jamir Miller in 2002). That's pretty bad...

Cleveland did slip my mind.The busts in the draft are pretty monumental when you look backFirst rounders1999 - Tim Couch 1.01 BUST2000 - Coutrney Brown 1.01 BUST2001 - Gerrard Warren 1.03 BUST2002 - Willaim Green 1.16 BUST2003 - Jeff Faine 1.21 Pretty good center, too bad its for the Saints2004 - KW2 1.06 TBD - Good year in 2006. 2004, 20005 not good2005 - Braylon Edwards 1.03 TBD - Never been a fan. Could be well on his way to being the next David Terrell 2006 - Kamerion Wimbley 1.13 Looks to have the makings of a damn good football player.

 

[BGP]

The Browns have had lots of problems over hte past few years, and the utter turmoil at the top has been one of them. I refer to the ownership. In 1999, the club started out with Al Lerner as owner and Carmen Policy as minority owner. Lerner dies, and ownership changes to Al's son Randy Lerner and Carmen Policy. In a year or so later, Policy sells his stake to Lerner and the ownership picture is just Randy Lerner.

That is THREE ownership groups in 8 seasons.

Its very hard to establish direction when ownership itself keeps changing.

Personnel moves were first made by GM Dwight Clark. He was horrible at his job. The players and coaches he acquired were terrible. Policy brought in Butch Davis as a coach and personnel guy to replace Clark. Butch was not very good at evaluating talent, but he also took a garbage team and made it competitive, even making the playoffs in 2002. Current GM Phil Savage is probably average to above-average at evaluating talent. He seems to be able to add 1 playmaker to the roster per year, which is enough to improve a bad franchise to an average one over time but its probably not enough to win anything. He's added two definite playmakers - WR Braylon Edwards and LB Kamerion Wimbley. Unfortunately, Edwards may never be the player he was projected to be because he blew out his knee as a rookie. But that's part of why you need to add more than one playmaker every year - injuries and FA will erode you too quickly.

I wouldn't rate the Browns as the worst these days. Savage hit on his first 2 first rounders so he can['t be the worst. But he has work to do.

 

[BGP]

Oakland, Arizona and Detroit should be the top 3 contenders.

Why no love for Cleveland? Since rejoing the league 7 years ago they only have one winning season (9-7 in 2002) and have had double digit losses in all but 2 seasons.Worse still they have yet to draft a Pro Bowl player, despite consistently having very high picks. Even their FAs haven't been to Pro Bowls (only Jamir Miller in 2002). That's pretty bad...

Cleveland did slip my mind.The busts in the draft are pretty monumental when you look backFirst rounders1999 - Tim Couch 1.01 BUST2000 - Coutrney Brown 1.01 BUST2001 - Gerrard Warren 1.03 BUST2002 - Willaim Green 1.16 BUST2003 - Jeff Faine 1.21 Pretty good center, too bad its for the Saints2004 - KW2 1.06 TBD - Good year in 2006. 2004, 20005 not good2005 - Braylon Edwards 1.03 TBD - Never been a fan. Could be well on his way to being the next David Terrell 2006 - Kamerion Wimbley 1.13 Looks to have the makings of a damn good football player.

Don't forget Braylon Edwards blew out his knee as a rookie. He may never be the same player the Browns drafted, and you can't blame that on the GM.

 

[CalBear]

Also, too early to call A Smith and Davis busted/wasted picks. By that rational, Gore was a wasted pick this time last year. Most knowledgeable observers would say that Smith progressed over last year and that Davis progressed over the beginning of the year... The team needs help on defense, for sure, but it is on its way.

Choosing a tight end with the #6 overall pick, when your team needs help at virtually every position, is a waste. Period. That point is only emphasized by the fact that he only caught 20 balls, and probably led the team in drops, too.We've seen almost two full years of Alex Smith. He sucks, flat-out. His stats for the year are pretty weak, and check out the second-half split: 56.8% completions, 136.5 yards per game, 7 TD 9 INT. Putrid. (By the way: Tim Rattay, 60.4% completions, 748 yards, 4 TD 2 INT in 3.5 games.)Nolan may be a decent in-game coach, but the decisions made about personnel while he's been there, with the exception of letting Barlow go, have been awful.

 

[psycho lions fan]

Oakland, Arizona and Detroit should be the top 3 contenders.

Why no love for Cleveland? Since rejoing the league 7 years ago they only have one winning season (9-7 in 2002) and have had double digit losses in all but 2 seasons.Worse still they have yet to draft a Pro Bowl player, despite consistently having very high picks. Even their FAs haven't been to Pro Bowls (only Jamir Miller in 2002). That's pretty bad...

Cleveland did slip my mind.The busts in the draft are pretty monumental when you look backFirst rounders1999 - Tim Couch 1.01 BUST2000 - Coutrney Brown 1.01 BUST2001 - Gerrard Warren 1.03 BUST2002 - Willaim Green 1.16 BUST2003 - Jeff Faine 1.21 Pretty good center, too bad its for the Saints2004 - KW2 1.06 TBD - Good year in 2006. 2004, 20005 not good2005 - Braylon Edwards 1.03 TBD - Never been a fan. Could be well on his way to being the next David Terrell 2006 - Kamerion Wimbley 1.13 Looks to have the makings of a damn good football player.

I believe in 2004 they were actually outsmarted by Millen in giving up 1.07 and 2.07 to get 1.06.Millen then took Roy W. and traded a 2nd to move up and take KJ in the same draft.Crap, did Millen pull that off?

 

[WampusCat43]

...

49er Salary Cap

That website's a good read for "Explain it to me like I'm Wampus Cat" information on the salary cap and how it works.Sooooo good not to see the Bengals not at the immediate top of these lists any longer.

 

[Limp Ditka]

Oakland, Arizona and Detroit should be the top 3 contenders.

Why no love for Cleveland? Since rejoing the league 7 years ago they only have one winning season (9-7 in 2002) and have had double digit losses in all but 2 seasons.Worse still they have yet to draft a Pro Bowl player, despite consistently having very high picks. Even their FAs haven't been to Pro Bowls (only Jamir Miller in 2002).

That's pretty bad...

Cleveland did slip my mind.The busts in the draft are pretty monumental when you look back

First rounders

1999 - Tim Couch 1.01 BUST

2000 - Coutrney Brown 1.01 BUST

2001 - Gerrard Warren 1.03 BUST

2002 - Willaim Green 1.16 BUST

2003 - Jeff Faine 1.21 Pretty good center, too bad its for the Saints

2004 - KW2 1.06 TBD - Good year in 2006. 2004, 20005 not good

2005 - Braylon Edwards 1.03 TBD - Never been a fan. Could be well on his way to being the next David Terrell

2006 - Kamerion Wimbley 1.13 Looks to have the makings of a damn good football player.

I believe in 2004 they were actually outsmarted by Millen in giving up 1.07 and 2.07 to get 1.06.Millen then took Roy W. and traded a 2nd to move up and take KJ in the same draft.

Crap, did Millen pull that off?

Yes he did.edit to add details of trade.

Choice traded to Detroit along with Browns 2nd round choice for the Lions first-round choice (6th overall) Taken from Browns webstie.

Cleveland continues to make a case for itself.

Getting schooled, on draft day, by Matt Millen is......is......is......ah hell I can't even come up with words to describe it.

 

[Godsbrother]

Don't forget Braylon Edwards blew out his knee as a rookie. He may never be the same player the Browns drafted, and you can't blame that on the GM.

I guess management should have known better than to draft such an injury prone player.

 

[Frenchy Fuqua]

Oakland, Arizona and Detroit should be the top 3 contenders.

Why no love for Cleveland? Since rejoing the league 7 years ago they only have one winning season (9-7 in 2002) and have had double digit losses in all but 2 seasons.Worse still they have yet to draft a Pro Bowl player, despite consistently having very high picks. Even their FAs haven't been to Pro Bowls (only Jamir Miller in 2002). That's pretty bad...

Cleveland did slip my mind.The busts in the draft are pretty monumental when you look backFirst rounders1999 - Tim Couch 1.01 BUST2000 - Coutrney Brown 1.01 BUST2001 - Gerrard Warren 1.03 BUST2002 - Willaim Green 1.16 BUST2003 - Jeff Faine 1.21 Pretty good center, too bad its for the Saints2004 - KW2 1.06 TBD - Good year in 2006. 2004, 20005 not good2005 - Braylon Edwards 1.03 TBD - Never been a fan. Could be well on his way to being the next David Terrell 2006 - Kamerion Wimbley 1.13 Looks to have the makings of a damn good football player.

Don't forget Braylon Edwards blew out his knee as a rookie. He may never be the same player the Browns drafted, and you can't blame that on the GM.

How about Andre Rison in 1995? Can we blame that signing on their GM?The Browns have a very poor record of draft picks and FA signings, that's indisputable.

 

[BGP]

Don't forget Braylon Edwards blew out his knee as a rookie. He may never be the same player the Browns drafted, and you can't blame that on the GM.

I guess management should have known better than to draft such an injury prone player.

I would not disagree with calling Edwards injury-prone. Any time someone blows a knee, it can lead to other injuries as the player compensates for the weakened limb. Where have I ever said Edwards was NOT injury-prone? Or are you making another straw man arguement (in this case, pretending I said Edwards was not injury-prone and making fun of it)? Are you a farmer? You just love scarecrows. But your debating skills are quite possibly the worst I've seen on this forum. Every post is another straw man.

 

[hacman]

Also, too early to call A Smith and Davis busted/wasted picks. By that rational, Gore was a wasted pick this time last year. Most knowledgeable observers would say that Smith progressed over last year and that Davis progressed over the beginning of the year... The team needs help on defense, for sure, but it is on its way.

Choosing a tight end with the #6 overall pick, when your team needs help at virtually every position, is a waste. Period. That point is only emphasized by the fact that he only caught 20 balls, and probably led the team in drops, too.We've seen almost two full years of Alex Smith. He sucks, flat-out. His stats for the year are pretty weak, and check out the second-half split: 56.8% completions, 136.5 yards per game, 7 TD 9 INT. Putrid. (By the way: Tim Rattay, 60.4% completions, 748 yards, 4 TD 2 INT in 3.5 games.)Nolan may be a decent in-game coach, but the decisions made about personnel while he's been there, with the exception of letting Barlow go, have been awful.

I’ll give you that drafting Smith with the first pick wasn’t necessarily the best thing for the franchise. But it could’ve been. There are compelling arguments for both sides of that decision. However, once the Niners decided to draft Smith, they have been consistent in following their blueprint of drafting/acquiring offensive talent around him to give him a chance to be successful. (Gore, Baas, Snyder, Jennings in year 1. Larry Allen, Antonio Bryant, Moran Norris and Davis in year 2.) While I would agree that the jury is still out on Smith at this point, it is too early to write him off. If you want to do that, let’s write off this guy (using your criteria) after his 3rd NFL seasonrew Brees: 57.6% completions 2108 yds 11 TDs/15 IntOr this guy after his 2nd NFL season:Carson Palmer: 60.9% 2897yds 18 TDs/18 Int Palmer’s 2nd year stats are not too far off of Smith’s 2nd season:Alex Smith: 58.1% 2890yds 16TDs/16 Ints I’ll compare Rattay’s stats to Smith’s when Smith is in year 7 of his career. Make no mistake, I’m not comparing Smith to any of those guys. I have to doubt that he could ever be as good as Brees or Palmer. But I’m willing to give him time to be a winning qb. If not, then they bring in a veteran after next year to compete.Smith has shown more than enough to think he is worth another year to develop. He won the game for the Niners in the fourth quarter in Seattle. On the flip side, the Niners probably would have won their games against Green Bay and Arizona if they had a better than average performance from their quarterback. It’s been repeated here that Smith is younger than the qbs that came out last year, that Smith had to transition from a gimmicky college scheme to a pro offense- not only that, he’s in his third offensive system in as many years. He was drafted for his intangibles and his potential and he deserves the chance to grow with this young team. He’s already proven to me that he is among the toughest quarterbacks in the league. Vernon Davis is a tight-end, yes. He’s also going to be a hell of a playmaker.Glad to see that you’ve upgraded Nolan from a moron to a decent in-game coach. After seeing all of the Niner games this year, I think his in-game coaching is something he needs to work on. He’s a young coach that learns from his mistakes and makes himself and the players accountable. This affords some optimism to the 49er faithful for the future. That’s where, you miss the point, CalBear; they weren’t trying to win a championship this year with their roster. That’s what Daniel Snyder does. They are trying to build the foundation for a successful franchise.

 

[CalBear]

However, once the Niners decided to draft Smith, they have been consistent in following their blueprint of drafting/acquiring offensive talent around him to give him a chance to be successful. (Gore, Baas, Snyder, Jennings in year 1. Larry Allen, Antonio Bryant, Moran Norris and Davis in year 2.)

That's known as "throwing good money after bad."

While I would agree that the jury is still out on Smith at this point, it is too early to write him off. If you want to do that, let’s write off this guy (using your criteria) after his 3rd NFL seasonrew Brees: 57.6% completions 2108 yds 11 TDs/15 IntOr this guy after his 2nd NFL season:Carson Palmer: 60.9% 2897yds 18 TDs/18 Int Palmer’s 2nd year stats are not too far off of Smith’s 2nd season:Alex Smith: 58.1% 2890yds 16TDs/16 Ints

Palmer didn't play in a game until his second year. Want to look at the second-half split for Palmer in the second year of his career (first year as starter)? 65.7% completions, 234 yards per game, 14 TD, 10 INT. That's what an improving QB looks like.It's certainly true that some QBs who went on to be successful had rocky starts. But Smith's problems are not just statistical; he simply does not play QB well.

Vernon Davis is a tight-end, yes. He’s also going to be a hell of a playmaker.

Based on what? He's fast. Woo. So's Ricky Dudley.

 

[Godsbrother]

Don't forget Braylon Edwards blew out his knee as a rookie. He may never be the same player the Browns drafted, and you can't blame that on the GM.

I guess management should have known better than to draft such an injury prone player.

I would not disagree with calling Edwards injury-prone. Any time someone blows a knee, it can lead to other injuries as the player compensates for the weakened limb. Where have I ever said Edwards was NOT injury-prone? Or are you making another straw man arguement (in this case, pretending I said Edwards was not injury-prone and making fun of it)?

It was a joke, hence the You need to lighten up a little.

Are you a farmer? You just love scarecrows. But your debating skills are quite possibly the worst I've seen on this forum. Every post is another straw man.

Ouch. You got me good there. Now my feelings are hurt.

 

[hacman]

That's known as "throwing good money after bad."

All these guys are upgrades, so you lose any credibility here.

Palmer didn't play in a game until his second year. Want to look at the second-half split for Palmer in the second year of his career (first year as starter)? 65.7% completions, 234 yards per game, 14 TD, 10 INT. That's what an improving QB looks like.It's certainly true that some QBs who went on to be successful had rocky starts. But Smith's problems are not just statistical; he simply does not play QB well.

All learning curves are not created equal. Neither are the environments that quarterbacks are placed into. Palmer had the edge in these categories, not to mention that he’s more physically gifted than Smith. As I said earlier, I doubt Smith will ever be as good as Palmer, which is an understatement at this point. My point earlier is that you don’t draft Smith and then declare that he’s a bust after two years.What I’m more concerned about: will Smith (or another Niners qb forward) have more rings than Palmer (or any other qb)? Does it matter to their respective teams that Dan Marino was a physically superior quarterback than Troy Aikman?

Based on what? He's fast. Woo. So's Ricky Dudley.

My opinion of Davis is just that, opinion. This is based on the action I’ve seen of him after coming back from a broken leg where he missed 7 weeks of the season. He’s a somewhat raw talent that ended up being better than advertised as a blocker. In the plays he’s been featured in, he has dropped some passes, but he’s also shown a lot of game-breaking ability with tangible results in the last four games. He must always be accounted for by the opposing secondary and linebackers. He may turn out to be Ricky Dudley, but we'll see...The bottom-line is the result. You say the Niners are sabotaging themselves at their chance to be a successful franchise; I say they are building a winner. So far the results- three more wins this year despite first and second-year talent and a general lack of talent on defense- show improvement.

 

[Weapon of Mass Instruction]

Quick, name a good TEN FA move.

Kyle Vanden Bosch -- probowl in first year.Chris Hope

David Thornton

Robaire Smith

Travis Henry (trade)

Kevin Mawae

Hey, BIG RED, how come no reply to my answer?

 

[Ilov80s]

Matt Millen's record speaks for itself.

 

[thayman]

Also, too early to call A Smith and Davis busted/wasted picks. By that rational, Gore was a wasted pick this time last year. Most knowledgeable observers would say that Smith progressed over last year and that Davis progressed over the beginning of the year... The team needs help on defense, for sure, but it is on its way.

Choosing a tight end with the #6 overall pick, when your team needs help at virtually every position, is a waste. Period. That point is only emphasized by the fact that he only caught 20 balls, and probably led the team in drops, too.We've seen almost two full years of Alex Smith. He sucks, flat-out. His stats for the year are pretty weak, and check out the second-half split: 56.8% completions, 136.5 yards per game, 7 TD 9 INT. Putrid.

(By the way: Tim Rattay, 60.4% completions, 748 yards, 4 TD 2 INT in 3.5 games.)

Nolan may be a decent in-game coach, but the decisions made about personnel while he's been there, with the exception of letting Barlow go, have been awful.

I’ll give you that drafting Smith with the first pick wasn’t necessarily the best thing for the franchise. But it could’ve been. There are compelling arguments for both sides of that decision. However, once the Niners decided to draft Smith, they have been consistent in following their blueprint of drafting/acquiring offensive talent around him to give him a chance to be successful. (Gore, Baas, Snyder, Jennings in year 1. Larry Allen, Antonio Bryant, Moran Norris and Davis in year 2.)

While I would agree that the jury is still out on Smith at this point, it is too early to write him off. If you want to do that, let’s write off this guy (using your criteria) after his 3rd NFL season:

Drew Brees: 57.6% completions 2108 yds 11 TDs/15 Int

Or this guy after his 2nd NFL season:

Carson Palmer: 60.9% 2897yds 18 TDs/18 Int

Palmer’s 2nd year stats are not too far off of Smith’s 2nd season:

Alex Smith: 58.1% 2890yds 16TDs/16 Ints

I’ll compare Rattay’s stats to Smith’s when Smith is in year 7 of his career. Make no mistake, I’m not comparing Smith to any of those guys. I have to doubt that he could ever be as good as Brees or Palmer. But I’m willing to give him time to be a winning qb. If not, then they bring in a veteran after next year to compete.

Smith has shown more than enough to think he is worth another year to develop. He won the game for the Niners in the fourth quarter in Seattle. On the flip side, the Niners probably would have won their games against Green Bay and Arizona if they had a better than average performance from their quarterback.

It’s been repeated here that Smith is younger than the qbs that came out last year, that Smith had to transition from a gimmicky college scheme to a pro offense- not only that, he’s in his third offensive system in as many years. He was drafted for his intangibles and his potential and he deserves the chance to grow with this young team. He’s already proven to me that he is among the toughest quarterbacks in the league.

Vernon Davis is a tight-end, yes. He’s also going to be a hell of a playmaker.

Glad to see that you’ve upgraded Nolan from a moron to a decent in-game coach. After seeing all of the Niner games this year, I think his in-game coaching is something he needs to work on. He’s a young coach that learns from his mistakes and makes himself and the players accountable. This affords some optimism to the 49er faithful for the future. That’s where, you miss the point, CalBear; they weren’t trying to win a championship this year with their roster. That’s what Daniel Snyder does. They are trying to build the foundation for a successful franchise.

Snyder is trying to build a strong foundation, he just tries to do it through FA, rather than the draft.

 

[redman]

Bump.

 

[J Andersson]

Al Davis sure is trying to win this award with the latest reports on him asking Kiffin to step down after one-year as the HC...



The mismanagement by Davis is unbelievable...

 

[texasbirdfan]

there are some of my fellow Falcon fans (myself NOT included) that might want to throw our name into the ring for the last 6 weeks or last 8 months of curious management action.

 

[Texasmouth]

In my opinion, Tennessee shouldn't be on that list.

Detroit is the hands down winner though. Never before have so many done so little with so much. Matt Millen is the worst management official in the history of the NFL.

 

[Gopher State]

Oakland and it's not even close

 

[Autumn Wind]

 

[redman]

Dan Snyder's Redskins are making an aggressive play to get to the top spot in this category:

Gregg Williams - Expect Him To Withdraw Saturday

Washington Redskins assistant head coach Gregg Williams said he was considering withdrawing from consideration for the team's head coaching position late last night amid reports citing team sources that he was no longer candidate. As of midnight owner Daniel Snyder and executive vice president Vinny Cerrato had not contacted Williams to notify him of any change in his status, and Williams has heard nothing from them since his final interview 10 days ago.

When asked if he would withdraw from consideration given the drawn out process and recent developments, Williams said: "I really haven't even had time to think about it, but it's something I will consider. I want to discuss it with my players and coaching staff, and at this point I haven't had a chance to contact anyone yet." Sources close to Williams said late last night that they expected Williams to formally pull out after speaking to Joe Gibbs, players and his coaches in the morning.

The Redskins are alleging to some media members that Williams somehow disrespected Gibbs during the interview process, and sources close to Williams believe the club has executed a smear campaign on various fronts in recent days to attempt to devalue him as a candidate despite heavy support from fans, coaches and players.

It's odd that ownership - covertly of course, who would dare say something on the record? - would use the excuse of Williams disparaging Gibbs after dragging Williams through a long process, considering he was the first person Gibbs hired when he returned to coaching and that Gibbs recommended Williams be his replacement. Also interesting that word of this would leak word of this around 11 pm on a Friday night - not exactly prime time, eh? Sure that wasn't by design.

Williams said reports that he had made disparaging remarks about former Coach Joe Gibbs during his interview were untrue.

"I haven't heard a thing from (Snyder and Cerrato), but I can assure you that Joe Gibbs is one of the best people I have ever been around in the world and one of my favorite people to ever be around. I came here because Joe Gibbs asked me and I feel honored to work with Joe Gibbs.

"Everybody knows Coach Gibbs is in the Hall of Fame as one of the best coaches who's ever been in this league. But once you are around him you see an even better person than s football coach. I can't believe anyone would even come close to suggesting that I would ever say anything inflammatory or derogatory about Joe Gibbs. He's my idol."

"I pinched myself all the time understanding and knowing that I get a chance to work side by side with him. I wanted to grow as coach and learn a lot more in this profession and what better way to learn form than a master coach who is already in the Hall of Fame.

"What I've learned in patience and how to deal with people and those things - how to build relationships - have been invaluable and will always be invaluable to me and will directly relate to my experiences with Joe Gibbs. With all that being said and done all Redskins know we are a very close knit family and that comes from people like Joe Gibbs and me and I feel tremendously proud that I have had an opportunity to work with Joe Gibbs. I just wish it could have been longer."

Contrary to some reports, the talks between owner Dan Snyder, executive vice president Vinny Cerrato and Williams were amicable, sources said, and Williams supported Gibbs staunchly in public and in private during his four years here.

 

[xenon]

It's got to be the DETROIT LIONS.....

It starts at the the top.

The Ford family, enough said....

Russ Thomas and Matt Millen, enough said

Monte Clark, Wayne Fontes, Daryl Rogers, etc..etc... all clowns

As a Detroit sports fan, I have witnessed the Tigers, Red Wings and Pistons all win championships. I do not believe in my lifetime that the Lions will.

 

[Texasmouth]

There are lots of teams that have really had a learning curve with the salary cap and lots of teams that have struggled with mixed success but there is no team that has done worse than the Lions. Even the Raiders managed to get to a Super Bowl.