Packers Cut Ahmad Carroll (1 Viewer)

[mr. furley]

Thompson has to clean up the mess that Sherman left behind.

This is getting old as well.Hiring a HC with no exp that has never won anything on any level.

guy, he made Rich Gannon in to the QB he became. Gannon openly credits him with making his career. He went from there and handled Aaron Brooks, made him look like a future star, led a Saints offense that had 3000 yd passer, 1000 yd rusher and a 1000 yd receiver. Those were very good offenses and dangerous Saints teams.. if not for Jim Haslett.

McCarthy leaves, Brooks collapses completely.

Letting the second best LG in the league walk and trying to replace him with bargin basement retreads.

THE GUY WANTED 11 MILLION DOLLARS. why don't people understand this?? yes, he made a mistake in signing the two guys he picked up... but, unlike Sherman, he did not hold on to those mistakes and then not draft players to replace them. GM's aren't going to hit on 100% of their decisions. he brought in 3 new guards and had Wells there who could slide over if needed. it didn't work out. spending 11 mil on Wahle was NOT a great idea. i miss his play there but it was not this disastrous decision that Packer fans want to believe it was.

Cutting a playmaking FS and replacing him with a rookie.

Sharper was one of the most polarizing Packers in recent memory. either people thought his handful of INT's a year were proof of his incredible ability OR they watched him fan on multiple tackles per game and wondered why he was starting. i'd have liked to see him back but he had also lost a step and was wanting big money. tough call but i think the right one. Collins looks like a good player.

Trading the best player on your team (and only offensive playmaker) because he's unhappy.

not just unhappy. not willing to play. about to hold out and cause further distraction. this one was a statement. "you think this is the Mike Sherman-era? it's not. there won't be open dissent on this team. i'm now allowing a few bad apples spoil the basket". . he got good value for a guy coming off a disastrous knee injury.. who knew that he could come back and play even half of this season? let''s not forget. the season isn't over. if Walker blows his knee again, are you still mad?

Waiting and waiting and waiting in free agency and then overspending for a washed up CB.

Woodson is washed up??

The list goes on and on.

Sherman was in over his head as GM. That is indisputable. But to throw it all on him is foolish. Thompson's team has won 5 games in two seasons since he took over after having won 12 or 10 a year the past 4 seasons.

ETA: clarity of the last paragraph

DO YOU NOT REALIZE THAT OF SHERMAN's FOUR DRAFTS THERE ARE A TOTAL OF FOUR PLAYERS ON THE CURRENT ROSTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! who's fault is that??? when you walk on to a team that has had THAT ####ty a draft history, has many many bad players on it, has made poor decisions in FA and is on the decline you have to clean house. start over and put your stamp on the team.

last year's team had nothing to do with Thompson. he played the cards he was dealt while trying to improve what he could.. they lost their top FIVE running backs, 3 of their top 4 wide receivers.. they were not a good team last year and that was largely the fault of Sherman not having any depth behind his average starting lineup. the rest can be blamed on the worst rash of injuries i've seen in a looooooooooong time.

this year is the first REAL year of rebuilding. yes, rebuilding. it happens in the NFL. 14 or 15 years in a row of winning football in the salary cap era when most teams turnover every 4 or so is RIDICULOUSLY good. now that we have to start over (like everyone else) people want to slam Thompson.

it takes more than a couple weeks in the off-season to completely overhaul a roster. would you like me to show you the results of Sherman's drafting and FA signings as compared to Thompson's?

the mark of good team shows in the players that are released from that teams roster.. do they sign on with other teams? are they starters with their new teams? backups? do they get picked up?

look around.. the guys who Sherman drafted aren't even in the ####### LEAGUE ANYMORE. that's miserable. the Holmgren teams would let a guy go and the next day he was on a roster... if not starting then at least as a key backup. Sherman let guys go and they vanished (Torrance Marshall, Cletidus Hunt, etc.).

that taks a LOOOOOOONG time to recover from.

so, yes, Sherman can take a HUGE mouthful on this one. he created this mess.

 

[MrPack]

What a good point...

SHERMAN THE ONLY ONE TO BLAME FOR HORRENDOUS DRAFTS?

It's becoming fashionable in the land of cheese and Lord Favre apologists to blame the team's track record of poor drafts during the Mike Sherman era on the guy who served for a period of time as both head coach and general manager.

But, the last time we checked, Sherman wasn't the only front-office employee when guys like cornerback Ahmad Carroll were selected. Carroll, the team's first-round pick in the 2004 draft, was cut on Tuesday after being burned more thoroughly than a freckle-faced teenager who fell asleep in a tanning bed.

If anything, Sherman might have had too much talent in the building. From "personnel analyst to the general manager" John Schneider (is that anything like assistant to the traveling secretary?) to director of pro personnel Reggie McKenzie to director of college scouting John Dorsey to the late Mark Hatley, the Packers were perceived as a Pro Bowl personnel department durin Sherman's time as the poobah.

During his tenure as G.M., there were whispers that Sherman didn't rely sufficiently on his lieutenants. But based on the stuff we've gleaned during five years of following the NFL as closely as a hungry dog watching its master eat a bag of beef jerky, someone had to set the table for Sherman when he picked guys like Carroll.

The compilation of a team's draft board is a collaborative process, and there typically isn't much winging it that goes on while the pick are being made. Teams routinely labor for weeks over a ranking of all players, and a ranking of the players at each position.

It's highly unlikely, then, that Sherman caught a wild hair after the Rams took Steven Jackson with the 24th pick and decided out of the blue that Carroll was the right call at No. 25. We can only assume, then, that the brain trust in Green Bay previously had determined that, between Carroll and Chris Gamble (who'd be drafted by the Panthers a few spots later), Carroll is the better player. And as history has demonstrated, he isn't.

A similar argument can be made for every other failed Sherman pick.

And if the truth is that Sherman had a goofball approach to the draft, ignoring the painstaking research that had been done and opting instead to throw darts or flip coins, our guess is that one of the capable and talented men working in the front office would have said something about it to someone in a moment of exasperation.

But all we've ever heard is that Sherman didn't do a good job of delegating. Surely, he didn't built the board on his own. Surely, others had input in the mistakes that were made.

We mention all of this for one reason. Though to the casual cheesehead some solace can be had in the notion that Sherman is out of the building, the more discerning Packer backer realizes that there are still many common threads between the regime that presided over some bad drafts -- and the one that currently is in power.

And your point is????Sherman was WELL KNOWN to be a power monger. Anyone that questioned his authority got the cold shoulder. HE had the final say in every pick. He made the ridiculous decision to trade up for a frigging punter, no one else pulled the strings there, Sherman did.

Sherman was the man making the decisions. No matter how much you want to believe he was a good GM, he wasn't.

 

[Aaronstory]

furley,

I actually agree with most of what your points. I'm simply trying to point out that Sherman is not the ONLY reason we are where we are.

Cheers.

 

[mr. furley]

I haven't overlooked the injuries. Apparently, TT DID when he fired the coach that never had a losing season until those injuries and TT came along...

first of all.. Thompson came in to be GM. Sherman was DEMOTED from that position to just be coach. that's not a relationship that's going to last. particularly not when people say things like this of Sherman:http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_...17/ai_n13243697

"The head coach thought he was the only one with any brains," said Johnny Roland, who spent the 2004 season coaching Green Bay's running backs before taking the same position in New Orleans this off-season. "There was a lot of collective knowledge in the people that have left. And that knowledge wasn't listened to."

=========

"Coaching's fun again. And at the end, it wasn't in Green Bay," said Jagodzinski, a Wisconsin native who attended UW-Whitewater. "In Atlanta, your opinion matters. And the thing is nobody's afraid to make a suggestion. In Green Bay, a lot of guys bite their tongues on a lot of things.

"Right now, everybody's involved in the decision process and your opinion matters. And if you're in an organization, you want to feel that you're a part of it. And when you don't have any decision- making responsibilities or they don't take your suggestions or whatever, that's frustrating."

=========

"Why do you think those guys left?" Jagodzinski said. "It wasn't to go to a better team. It's because in Green Bay, your ideas don't get listened to."

Roland concurred.

"I think what Jags said is definitely fair," Roland said. "And it's evidenced by the number of coaches that have exited over the last couple of years."

a guy like that is NOT going to be easy to work with. he destroyed the team's depth. coaches were unhappy. players were unhappy. you don't keep that guy on as coach and just hope everything turns around somehow.

I hate Ahmad Carroll. Have since the day they drafted him. Just don't think he's the biggest problem with the Packers. If you can cut a #1 draft pick (and be on the hook for his salary) why can't you admit you made a mistake in hiring Sanders as your DC and fire him, since we're 'making statements about accountability'. What a joke. He's had a MONTH to fix the 'communication problems' in the secondary. He came up with wristbands. Pop. Warner.

you don't fire a coach after 1 month. not one who is in his first season. who by all accounts is ready for the job. he's working in a new scheme with a lot of new players who don't know each other. that's going to take time.if Sanders had been doing this same thing, not taking accountability for any of it and was a poisonous presence on staff.. then i'd be more willing to listen to this arguement.

 

[MrPack]

I haven't overlooked the injuries. Apparently, TT DID when he fired the coach that never had a losing season until those injuries and TT came along...

first of all.. Thompson came in to be GM. Sherman was DEMOTED from that position to just be coach. that's not a relationship that's going to last. particularly not when people say things like this of Sherman:http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_...17/ai_n13243697

"The head coach thought he was the only one with any brains," said Johnny Roland, who spent the 2004 season coaching Green Bay's running backs before taking the same position in New Orleans this off-season. "There was a lot of collective knowledge in the people that have left. And that knowledge wasn't listened to."

=========

"Coaching's fun again. And at the end, it wasn't in Green Bay," said Jagodzinski, a Wisconsin native who attended UW-Whitewater. "In Atlanta, your opinion matters. And the thing is nobody's afraid to make a suggestion. In Green Bay, a lot of guys bite their tongues on a lot of things.

"Right now, everybody's involved in the decision process and your opinion matters. And if you're in an organization, you want to feel that you're a part of it. And when you don't have any decision- making responsibilities or they don't take your suggestions or whatever, that's frustrating."

=========

"Why do you think those guys left?" Jagodzinski said. "It wasn't to go to a better team. It's because in Green Bay, your ideas don't get listened to."

Roland concurred.

"I think what Jags said is definitely fair," Roland said. "And it's evidenced by the number of coaches that have exited over the last couple of years."

And these are the exact reasons Aaronstory, that your post laying blame on everyone but Sherman for his poor drafts is a laughable post.

 

[Aaronstory]

What a good point...

SHERMAN THE ONLY ONE TO BLAME FOR HORRENDOUS DRAFTS?

It's becoming fashionable in the land of cheese and Lord Favre apologists to blame the team's track record of poor drafts during the Mike Sherman era on the guy who served for a period of time as both head coach and general manager.

But, the last time we checked, Sherman wasn't the only front-office employee when guys like cornerback Ahmad Carroll were selected. Carroll, the team's first-round pick in the 2004 draft, was cut on Tuesday after being burned more thoroughly than a freckle-faced teenager who fell asleep in a tanning bed.

If anything, Sherman might have had too much talent in the building. From "personnel analyst to the general manager" John Schneider (is that anything like assistant to the traveling secretary?) to director of pro personnel Reggie McKenzie to director of college scouting John Dorsey to the late Mark Hatley, the Packers were perceived as a Pro Bowl personnel department durin Sherman's time as the poobah.

During his tenure as G.M., there were whispers that Sherman didn't rely sufficiently on his lieutenants. But based on the stuff we've gleaned during five years of following the NFL as closely as a hungry dog watching its master eat a bag of beef jerky, someone had to set the table for Sherman when he picked guys like Carroll.

The compilation of a team's draft board is a collaborative process, and there typically isn't much winging it that goes on while the pick are being made. Teams routinely labor for weeks over a ranking of all players, and a ranking of the players at each position.

It's highly unlikely, then, that Sherman caught a wild hair after the Rams took Steven Jackson with the 24th pick and decided out of the blue that Carroll was the right call at No. 25. We can only assume, then, that the brain trust in Green Bay previously had determined that, between Carroll and Chris Gamble (who'd be drafted by the Panthers a few spots later), Carroll is the better player. And as history has demonstrated, he isn't.

A similar argument can be made for every other failed Sherman pick.

And if the truth is that Sherman had a goofball approach to the draft, ignoring the painstaking research that had been done and opting instead to throw darts or flip coins, our guess is that one of the capable and talented men working in the front office would have said something about it to someone in a moment of exasperation.

But all we've ever heard is that Sherman didn't do a good job of delegating. Surely, he didn't built the board on his own. Surely, others had input in the mistakes that were made.

We mention all of this for one reason. Though to the casual cheesehead some solace can be had in the notion that Sherman is out of the building, the more discerning Packer backer realizes that there are still many common threads between the regime that presided over some bad drafts -- and the one that currently is in power.

And your point is????Sherman was WELL KNOWN to be a power monger. Anyone that questioned his authority got the cold shoulder. HE had the final say in every pick. He made the ridiculous decision to trade up for a frigging punter, no one else pulled the strings there, Sherman did.

Sherman was the man making the decisions. No matter how much you want to believe he was a good GM, he wasn't.

Is that why I said he was 'clearly in over his head as GM' earlier in this thread? You people really need to learn that things are not as black and white and clear cut as you like to make them. It's impossible to boil it down to 'this is to blame'. You (and several others) are getting emotional in your arguments and missing my points. That's fine. It doesn't change the fact that Sherman and Carroll are not the only reasons the Packers have won 5 of the last 20 games they've played.

 

[mr. furley]

What a good point...

SHERMAN THE ONLY ONE TO BLAME FOR HORRENDOUS DRAFTS?

It's becoming fashionable in the land of cheese and Lord Favre apologists to blame the team's track record of poor drafts during the Mike Sherman era on the guy who served for a period of time as both head coach and general manager.

But, the last time we checked, Sherman wasn't the only front-office employee when guys like cornerback Ahmad Carroll were selected. Carroll, the team's first-round pick in the 2004 draft, was cut on Tuesday after being burned more thoroughly than a freckle-faced teenager who fell asleep in a tanning bed.

If anything, Sherman might have had too much talent in the building. From "personnel analyst to the general manager" John Schneider (is that anything like assistant to the traveling secretary?) to director of pro personnel Reggie McKenzie to director of college scouting John Dorsey to the late Mark Hatley, the Packers were perceived as a Pro Bowl personnel department durin Sherman's time as the poobah.

During his tenure as G.M., there were whispers that Sherman didn't rely sufficiently on his lieutenants. But based on the stuff we've gleaned during five years of following the NFL as closely as a hungry dog watching its master eat a bag of beef jerky, someone had to set the table for Sherman when he picked guys like Carroll.

The compilation of a team's draft board is a collaborative process, and there typically isn't much winging it that goes on while the pick are being made. Teams routinely labor for weeks over a ranking of all players, and a ranking of the players at each position.

It's highly unlikely, then, that Sherman caught a wild hair after the Rams took Steven Jackson with the 24th pick and decided out of the blue that Carroll was the right call at No. 25. We can only assume, then, that the brain trust in Green Bay previously had determined that, between Carroll and Chris Gamble (who'd be drafted by the Panthers a few spots later), Carroll is the better player. And as history has demonstrated, he isn't.

A similar argument can be made for every other failed Sherman pick.

And if the truth is that Sherman had a goofball approach to the draft, ignoring the painstaking research that had been done and opting instead to throw darts or flip coins, our guess is that one of the capable and talented men working in the front office would have said something about it to someone in a moment of exasperation.

But all we've ever heard is that Sherman didn't do a good job of delegating. Surely, he didn't built the board on his own. Surely, others had input in the mistakes that were made.

We mention all of this for one reason. Though to the casual cheesehead some solace can be had in the notion that Sherman is out of the building, the more discerning Packer backer realizes that there are still many common threads between the regime that presided over some bad drafts -- and the one that currently is in power.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_...17/ai_n13243697"Roland said aside from offensive coordinator Tom Rossley and former special teams consultant Frank Novak, Sherman rarely listened to anyone on staff."

i know people are going to doubt it but... friend of mine's Brother-in-law was on the Sherman staff. he was brought on by Sherman and left when Sherman was canned. by all accounts a Sherm guy.

HE SAID that it was WIDELY known that Sherman did not listen to his personnel guys. he went in to the war room and not only called the shots but made the final decisions on all picks. he was a control freak without the requisite knowledge to be successful doing it.

the personnel people made their recommendations and what not.. but in the end Sherman had "his guys" and that's who he picked. Sander, Hawkins, Marshall, etc. the list is long and illustrious.

those same guys who were in Holmgren's personnel dept., were there for Sherman and are there now for Thompson (with maybe one or two exceptions). so you went from Wolf and his fantastic drafts ... to Sherman and his HORRIBLE drafts... to Thompson who, by most all accounts, has had 2 very good drafts in a row.

you tell me.

 

[Aaronstory]

I haven't overlooked the injuries. Apparently, TT DID when he fired the coach that never had a losing season until those injuries and TT came along...

first of all.. Thompson came in to be GM. Sherman was DEMOTED from that position to just be coach. that's not a relationship that's going to last. particularly not when people say things like this of Sherman:http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_...17/ai_n13243697

"The head coach thought he was the only one with any brains," said Johnny Roland, who spent the 2004 season coaching Green Bay's running backs before taking the same position in New Orleans this off-season. "There was a lot of collective knowledge in the people that have left. And that knowledge wasn't listened to."

=========

"Coaching's fun again. And at the end, it wasn't in Green Bay," said Jagodzinski, a Wisconsin native who attended UW-Whitewater. "In Atlanta, your opinion matters. And the thing is nobody's afraid to make a suggestion. In Green Bay, a lot of guys bite their tongues on a lot of things.

"Right now, everybody's involved in the decision process and your opinion matters. And if you're in an organization, you want to feel that you're a part of it. And when you don't have any decision- making responsibilities or they don't take your suggestions or whatever, that's frustrating."

=========

"Why do you think those guys left?" Jagodzinski said. "It wasn't to go to a better team. It's because in Green Bay, your ideas don't get listened to."

Roland concurred.

"I think what Jags said is definitely fair," Roland said. "And it's evidenced by the number of coaches that have exited over the last couple of years."

a guy like that is NOT going to be easy to work with. he destroyed the team's depth. coaches were unhappy. players were unhappy. you don't keep that guy on as coach and just hope everything turns around somehow.

I hate Ahmad Carroll. Have since the day they drafted him. Just don't think he's the biggest problem with the Packers. If you can cut a #1 draft pick (and be on the hook for his salary) why can't you admit you made a mistake in hiring Sanders as your DC and fire him, since we're 'making statements about accountability'. What a joke. He's had a MONTH to fix the 'communication problems' in the secondary. He came up with wristbands. Pop. Warner.

you don't fire a coach after 1 month. not one who is in his first season. who by all accounts is ready for the job. he's working in a new scheme with a lot of new players who don't know each other. that's going to take time.if Sanders had been doing this same thing, not taking accountability for any of it and was a poisonous presence on staff.. then i'd be more willing to listen to this arguement.

Well, you just killed your argument right there.No, the whole reason he was hired is because he supposedly KNEW the scheme better than anyone outside of Jim Bates. They didn't want to install yet ANOTHER new system on defense, so Sanders got the nod. And it's looking to be a horrible, horrible mistake.

 

[mr. furley]

I haven't overlooked the injuries. Apparently, TT DID when he fired the coach that never had a losing season until those injuries and TT came along...

first of all.. Thompson came in to be GM. Sherman was DEMOTED from that position to just be coach. that's not a relationship that's going to last. particularly not when people say things like this of Sherman:http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_...17/ai_n13243697

"The head coach thought he was the only one with any brains," said Johnny Roland, who spent the 2004 season coaching Green Bay's running backs before taking the same position in New Orleans this off-season. "There was a lot of collective knowledge in the people that have left. And that knowledge wasn't listened to."

=========

"Coaching's fun again. And at the end, it wasn't in Green Bay," said Jagodzinski, a Wisconsin native who attended UW-Whitewater. "In Atlanta, your opinion matters. And the thing is nobody's afraid to make a suggestion. In Green Bay, a lot of guys bite their tongues on a lot of things.

"Right now, everybody's involved in the decision process and your opinion matters. And if you're in an organization, you want to feel that you're a part of it. And when you don't have any decision- making responsibilities or they don't take your suggestions or whatever, that's frustrating."

=========

"Why do you think those guys left?" Jagodzinski said. "It wasn't to go to a better team. It's because in Green Bay, your ideas don't get listened to."

Roland concurred.

"I think what Jags said is definitely fair," Roland said. "And it's evidenced by the number of coaches that have exited over the last couple of years."

And these are the exact reasons Aaronstory, that your post laying blame on everyone but Sherman for his poor drafts is a laughable post.

i live here. we'd hear the buzz about Sherman being a control freak.. and we watched as coaches left in disgust.. and watched as players mutinied.. and heard stories about how Sherman was obsessively controlling and had a deaf ear.

nobody wanted to believe it.

 

[Aaronstory]

What a good point...

SHERMAN THE ONLY ONE TO BLAME FOR HORRENDOUS DRAFTS?

It's becoming fashionable in the land of cheese and Lord Favre apologists to blame the team's track record of poor drafts during the Mike Sherman era on the guy who served for a period of time as both head coach and general manager.

But, the last time we checked, Sherman wasn't the only front-office employee when guys like cornerback Ahmad Carroll were selected. Carroll, the team's first-round pick in the 2004 draft, was cut on Tuesday after being burned more thoroughly than a freckle-faced teenager who fell asleep in a tanning bed.

If anything, Sherman might have had too much talent in the building. From "personnel analyst to the general manager" John Schneider (is that anything like assistant to the traveling secretary?) to director of pro personnel Reggie McKenzie to director of college scouting John Dorsey to the late Mark Hatley, the Packers were perceived as a Pro Bowl personnel department durin Sherman's time as the poobah.

During his tenure as G.M., there were whispers that Sherman didn't rely sufficiently on his lieutenants. But based on the stuff we've gleaned during five years of following the NFL as closely as a hungry dog watching its master eat a bag of beef jerky, someone had to set the table for Sherman when he picked guys like Carroll.

The compilation of a team's draft board is a collaborative process, and there typically isn't much winging it that goes on while the pick are being made. Teams routinely labor for weeks over a ranking of all players, and a ranking of the players at each position.

It's highly unlikely, then, that Sherman caught a wild hair after the Rams took Steven Jackson with the 24th pick and decided out of the blue that Carroll was the right call at No. 25. We can only assume, then, that the brain trust in Green Bay previously had determined that, between Carroll and Chris Gamble (who'd be drafted by the Panthers a few spots later), Carroll is the better player. And as history has demonstrated, he isn't.

A similar argument can be made for every other failed Sherman pick.

And if the truth is that Sherman had a goofball approach to the draft, ignoring the painstaking research that had been done and opting instead to throw darts or flip coins, our guess is that one of the capable and talented men working in the front office would have said something about it to someone in a moment of exasperation.

But all we've ever heard is that Sherman didn't do a good job of delegating. Surely, he didn't built the board on his own. Surely, others had input in the mistakes that were made.

We mention all of this for one reason. Though to the casual cheesehead some solace can be had in the notion that Sherman is out of the building, the more discerning Packer backer realizes that there are still many common threads between the regime that presided over some bad drafts -- and the one that currently is in power.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_...17/ai_n13243697"Roland said aside from offensive coordinator Tom Rossley and former special teams consultant Frank Novak, Sherman rarely listened to anyone on staff."

i know people are going to doubt it but... friend of mine's Brother-in-law was on the Sherman staff. he was brought on by Sherman and left when Sherman was canned. by all accounts a Sherm guy.

HE SAID that it was WIDELY known that Sherman did not listen to his personnel guys. he went in to the war room and not only called the shots but made the final decisions on all picks. he was a control freak without the requisite knowledge to be successful doing it.

the personnel people made their recommendations and what not.. but in the end Sherman had "his guys" and that's who he picked. Sander, Hawkins, Marshall, etc. the list is long and illustrious.

those same guys who were in Holmgren's personnel dept., were there for Sherman and are there now for Thompson (with maybe one or two exceptions). so you went from Wolf and his fantastic drafts ... to Sherman and his HORRIBLE drafts... to Thompson who, by most all accounts, has had 2 very good drafts in a row.

you tell me.

Sounds about right. Almost like he was in over his head. Like I said two pages ago...

 

[mr. furley]

What a good point...

SHERMAN THE ONLY ONE TO BLAME FOR HORRENDOUS DRAFTS?

It's becoming fashionable in the land of cheese and Lord Favre apologists to blame the team's track record of poor drafts during the Mike Sherman era on the guy who served for a period of time as both head coach and general manager.

But, the last time we checked, Sherman wasn't the only front-office employee when guys like cornerback Ahmad Carroll were selected. Carroll, the team's first-round pick in the 2004 draft, was cut on Tuesday after being burned more thoroughly than a freckle-faced teenager who fell asleep in a tanning bed.

If anything, Sherman might have had too much talent in the building. From "personnel analyst to the general manager" John Schneider (is that anything like assistant to the traveling secretary?) to director of pro personnel Reggie McKenzie to director of college scouting John Dorsey to the late Mark Hatley, the Packers were perceived as a Pro Bowl personnel department durin Sherman's time as the poobah.

During his tenure as G.M., there were whispers that Sherman didn't rely sufficiently on his lieutenants. But based on the stuff we've gleaned during five years of following the NFL as closely as a hungry dog watching its master eat a bag of beef jerky, someone had to set the table for Sherman when he picked guys like Carroll.

The compilation of a team's draft board is a collaborative process, and there typically isn't much winging it that goes on while the pick are being made. Teams routinely labor for weeks over a ranking of all players, and a ranking of the players at each position.

It's highly unlikely, then, that Sherman caught a wild hair after the Rams took Steven Jackson with the 24th pick and decided out of the blue that Carroll was the right call at No. 25. We can only assume, then, that the brain trust in Green Bay previously had determined that, between Carroll and Chris Gamble (who'd be drafted by the Panthers a few spots later), Carroll is the better player. And as history has demonstrated, he isn't.

A similar argument can be made for every other failed Sherman pick.

And if the truth is that Sherman had a goofball approach to the draft, ignoring the painstaking research that had been done and opting instead to throw darts or flip coins, our guess is that one of the capable and talented men working in the front office would have said something about it to someone in a moment of exasperation.

But all we've ever heard is that Sherman didn't do a good job of delegating. Surely, he didn't built the board on his own. Surely, others had input in the mistakes that were made.

We mention all of this for one reason. Though to the casual cheesehead some solace can be had in the notion that Sherman is out of the building, the more discerning Packer backer realizes that there are still many common threads between the regime that presided over some bad drafts -- and the one that currently is in power.

And your point is????Sherman was WELL KNOWN to be a power monger. Anyone that questioned his authority got the cold shoulder. HE had the final say in every pick. He made the ridiculous decision to trade up for a frigging punter, no one else pulled the strings there, Sherman did.

Sherman was the man making the decisions. No matter how much you want to believe he was a good GM, he wasn't.

Is that why I said he was 'clearly in over his head as GM' earlier in this thread? You people really need to learn that things are not as black and white and clear cut as you like to make them. It's impossible to boil it down to 'this is to blame'. You (and several others) are getting emotional in your arguments and missing my points. That's fine. It doesn't change the fact that Sherman and Carroll are not the only reasons the Packers have won 5 of the last 20 games they've played.

this is a team that got old and had 4 horrible drafts in a row that absolutely decimated their depth. so when players started to get hurt we couldn't recover.

we had NO talent behind a couple key starters.. that's what caused this team to go 4-12 last year.. and put them in position to stagger through the next couple years.

it's amazing that you want Thompson gone after 1+ years but are willing to make excuses for 4 years of Sherman ineptitude and say Thompson is the reason we've lost 15 of the last 20.

 

[mr. furley]

I haven't overlooked the injuries. Apparently, TT DID when he fired the coach that never had a losing season until those injuries and TT came along...

first of all.. Thompson came in to be GM. Sherman was DEMOTED from that position to just be coach. that's not a relationship that's going to last. particularly not when people say things like this of Sherman:http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_...17/ai_n13243697

"The head coach thought he was the only one with any brains," said Johnny Roland, who spent the 2004 season coaching Green Bay's running backs before taking the same position in New Orleans this off-season. "There was a lot of collective knowledge in the people that have left. And that knowledge wasn't listened to."

=========

"Coaching's fun again. And at the end, it wasn't in Green Bay," said Jagodzinski, a Wisconsin native who attended UW-Whitewater. "In Atlanta, your opinion matters. And the thing is nobody's afraid to make a suggestion. In Green Bay, a lot of guys bite their tongues on a lot of things.

"Right now, everybody's involved in the decision process and your opinion matters. And if you're in an organization, you want to feel that you're a part of it. And when you don't have any decision- making responsibilities or they don't take your suggestions or whatever, that's frustrating."

=========

"Why do you think those guys left?" Jagodzinski said. "It wasn't to go to a better team. It's because in Green Bay, your ideas don't get listened to."

Roland concurred.

"I think what Jags said is definitely fair," Roland said. "And it's evidenced by the number of coaches that have exited over the last couple of years."

a guy like that is NOT going to be easy to work with. he destroyed the team's depth. coaches were unhappy. players were unhappy. you don't keep that guy on as coach and just hope everything turns around somehow.

I hate Ahmad Carroll. Have since the day they drafted him. Just don't think he's the biggest problem with the Packers. If you can cut a #1 draft pick (and be on the hook for his salary) why can't you admit you made a mistake in hiring Sanders as your DC and fire him, since we're 'making statements about accountability'. What a joke. He's had a MONTH to fix the 'communication problems' in the secondary. He came up with wristbands. Pop. Warner.

you don't fire a coach after 1 month. not one who is in his first season. who by all accounts is ready for the job. he's working in a new scheme with a lot of new players who don't know each other. that's going to take time.if Sanders had been doing this same thing, not taking accountability for any of it and was a poisonous presence on staff.. then i'd be more willing to listen to this arguement.

Well, you just killed your argument right there.No, the whole reason he was hired is because he supposedly KNEW the scheme better than anyone outside of Jim Bates. They didn't want to install yet ANOTHER new system on defense, so Sanders got the nod. And it's looking to be a horrible, horrible mistake.

he's working with Hawk, Poppinga, Manuel, Woodson, Pickett, Allen, etc. they weren't here last year (excepting Poppinga) to learn the defense. so TO THEM it's brand new.. and you can throw in the new guys like Culver/Bush/Taylor, etc who are just now learning it. your only real holdovers from last season are Barnett, KGB, Kampmann, Harris & Collins who is in his 2nd year. our front 4 has been fine stopping the run but generates no pass rush. that's more from a lack of pass rush talent than anything. and we can't blitz and expose the DB's on every #######g play

we have 2 new LB's and 2 new DB's. they're struggling in coverage. it happens. what i consistently saw in the first 4 weeks is Poppinga struggling to cover (knee) and Carroll struggling to cover. Manuel is supposed to be back there making the calls.. obviously he's not doing a good job but he didn't play in the pre-season.

do you really watch the games? or just read the newspapers?

should the Packers be 14-2 every year and play mistake free football?? this is why i avoid the SP.

 

[mr. furley]

What a good point...

SHERMAN THE ONLY ONE TO BLAME FOR HORRENDOUS DRAFTS?

It's becoming fashionable in the land of cheese and Lord Favre apologists to blame the team's track record of poor drafts during the Mike Sherman era on the guy who served for a period of time as both head coach and general manager.

But, the last time we checked, Sherman wasn't the only front-office employee when guys like cornerback Ahmad Carroll were selected. Carroll, the team's first-round pick in the 2004 draft, was cut on Tuesday after being burned more thoroughly than a freckle-faced teenager who fell asleep in a tanning bed.

If anything, Sherman might have had too much talent in the building. From "personnel analyst to the general manager" John Schneider (is that anything like assistant to the traveling secretary?) to director of pro personnel Reggie McKenzie to director of college scouting John Dorsey to the late Mark Hatley, the Packers were perceived as a Pro Bowl personnel department durin Sherman's time as the poobah.

During his tenure as G.M., there were whispers that Sherman didn't rely sufficiently on his lieutenants. But based on the stuff we've gleaned during five years of following the NFL as closely as a hungry dog watching its master eat a bag of beef jerky, someone had to set the table for Sherman when he picked guys like Carroll.

The compilation of a team's draft board is a collaborative process, and there typically isn't much winging it that goes on while the pick are being made. Teams routinely labor for weeks over a ranking of all players, and a ranking of the players at each position.

It's highly unlikely, then, that Sherman caught a wild hair after the Rams took Steven Jackson with the 24th pick and decided out of the blue that Carroll was the right call at No. 25. We can only assume, then, that the brain trust in Green Bay previously had determined that, between Carroll and Chris Gamble (who'd be drafted by the Panthers a few spots later), Carroll is the better player. And as history has demonstrated, he isn't.

A similar argument can be made for every other failed Sherman pick.

And if the truth is that Sherman had a goofball approach to the draft, ignoring the painstaking research that had been done and opting instead to throw darts or flip coins, our guess is that one of the capable and talented men working in the front office would have said something about it to someone in a moment of exasperation.

But all we've ever heard is that Sherman didn't do a good job of delegating. Surely, he didn't built the board on his own. Surely, others had input in the mistakes that were made.

We mention all of this for one reason. Though to the casual cheesehead some solace can be had in the notion that Sherman is out of the building, the more discerning Packer backer realizes that there are still many common threads between the regime that presided over some bad drafts -- and the one that currently is in power.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_...17/ai_n13243697"Roland said aside from offensive coordinator Tom Rossley and former special teams consultant Frank Novak, Sherman rarely listened to anyone on staff."

i know people are going to doubt it but... friend of mine's Brother-in-law was on the Sherman staff. he was brought on by Sherman and left when Sherman was canned. by all accounts a Sherm guy.

HE SAID that it was WIDELY known that Sherman did not listen to his personnel guys. he went in to the war room and not only called the shots but made the final decisions on all picks. he was a control freak without the requisite knowledge to be successful doing it.

the personnel people made their recommendations and what not.. but in the end Sherman had "his guys" and that's who he picked. Sander, Hawkins, Marshall, etc. the list is long and illustrious.

those same guys who were in Holmgren's personnel dept., were there for Sherman and are there now for Thompson (with maybe one or two exceptions). so you went from Wolf and his fantastic drafts ... to Sherman and his HORRIBLE drafts... to Thompson who, by most all accounts, has had 2 very good drafts in a row.

you tell me.

Sounds about right. Almost like he was in over his head. Like I said two pages ago...

so he was in over his head but the current situation isn't his fault?????????

 

[Aaronstory]

What a good point...

SHERMAN THE ONLY ONE TO BLAME FOR HORRENDOUS DRAFTS?

It's becoming fashionable in the land of cheese and Lord Favre apologists to blame the team's track record of poor drafts during the Mike Sherman era on the guy who served for a period of time as both head coach and general manager.

But, the last time we checked, Sherman wasn't the only front-office employee when guys like cornerback Ahmad Carroll were selected. Carroll, the team's first-round pick in the 2004 draft, was cut on Tuesday after being burned more thoroughly than a freckle-faced teenager who fell asleep in a tanning bed.

If anything, Sherman might have had too much talent in the building. From "personnel analyst to the general manager" John Schneider (is that anything like assistant to the traveling secretary?) to director of pro personnel Reggie McKenzie to director of college scouting John Dorsey to the late Mark Hatley, the Packers were perceived as a Pro Bowl personnel department durin Sherman's time as the poobah.

During his tenure as G.M., there were whispers that Sherman didn't rely sufficiently on his lieutenants. But based on the stuff we've gleaned during five years of following the NFL as closely as a hungry dog watching its master eat a bag of beef jerky, someone had to set the table for Sherman when he picked guys like Carroll.

The compilation of a team's draft board is a collaborative process, and there typically isn't much winging it that goes on while the pick are being made. Teams routinely labor for weeks over a ranking of all players, and a ranking of the players at each position.

It's highly unlikely, then, that Sherman caught a wild hair after the Rams took Steven Jackson with the 24th pick and decided out of the blue that Carroll was the right call at No. 25. We can only assume, then, that the brain trust in Green Bay previously had determined that, between Carroll and Chris Gamble (who'd be drafted by the Panthers a few spots later), Carroll is the better player. And as history has demonstrated, he isn't.

A similar argument can be made for every other failed Sherman pick.

And if the truth is that Sherman had a goofball approach to the draft, ignoring the painstaking research that had been done and opting instead to throw darts or flip coins, our guess is that one of the capable and talented men working in the front office would have said something about it to someone in a moment of exasperation.

But all we've ever heard is that Sherman didn't do a good job of delegating. Surely, he didn't built the board on his own. Surely, others had input in the mistakes that were made.

We mention all of this for one reason. Though to the casual cheesehead some solace can be had in the notion that Sherman is out of the building, the more discerning Packer backer realizes that there are still many common threads between the regime that presided over some bad drafts -- and the one that currently is in power.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_...17/ai_n13243697"Roland said aside from offensive coordinator Tom Rossley and former special teams consultant Frank Novak, Sherman rarely listened to anyone on staff."

i know people are going to doubt it but... friend of mine's Brother-in-law was on the Sherman staff. he was brought on by Sherman and left when Sherman was canned. by all accounts a Sherm guy.

HE SAID that it was WIDELY known that Sherman did not listen to his personnel guys. he went in to the war room and not only called the shots but made the final decisions on all picks. he was a control freak without the requisite knowledge to be successful doing it.

the personnel people made their recommendations and what not.. but in the end Sherman had "his guys" and that's who he picked. Sander, Hawkins, Marshall, etc. the list is long and illustrious.

those same guys who were in Holmgren's personnel dept., were there for Sherman and are there now for Thompson (with maybe one or two exceptions). so you went from Wolf and his fantastic drafts ... to Sherman and his HORRIBLE drafts... to Thompson who, by most all accounts, has had 2 very good drafts in a row.

you tell me.

Sounds about right. Almost like he was in over his head. Like I said two pages ago...

so he was in over his head but the current situation isn't his fault?????????

OK, I get it.To you, it's ALL Sherman's fault. To me, there were/are other factors involved.

Please reread what I've written. And yes, I watch every second of every game, and have done since I was three. And yes, I read every article from every outlet that covers the Packers. Please don't try to take the 'I'm a superior fan' route. You have your opinion, and I have mine. I've been more than coridal throughout this entire back and forth while you and Mr. Pack have gotten personal and emotinal.

You want to blame Sherman for everything. Fine. I don't. (That doesn't mean he doesn't SHARE the blame, but I don't blame him for EVERYTHING, which you and others clearly do.)

 

[mr. furley]

you keep saying "it's not Sherman's fault" and then blame Thompson.



you don't want to see the forest for the trees. i'm not trying to say i'm a superior fan. just maybe it's possible that you're not paying attention to what's gone on.

how you can blame Thompson for this mess is beyond me. seriously. that shows me either you just started following the Packers last year or you're Mike Sherman.

 

[Aaronstory]

you keep saying "it's not Sherman's fault" and then blame Thompson.you don't want to see the forest for the trees. i'm not trying to say i'm a superior fan. just maybe it's possible that you're not paying attention to what's gone on.how you can blame Thompson for this mess is beyond me. seriously. that shows me either you just started following the Packers last year or you're Mike Sherman.

I don't keep blaming Thompson. I simply pointed out he is not without fault for where we are.And for the love of Jesus, I do NOT keep saying it's not Sherman's fault.I'm done.

 

[mr. furley]

Thompson has to clean up the mess that Sherman left behind.

This is getting old as well.

=========

Letting the second best LG in the league walk and trying to replace him with bargin basement retreads.

Cutting a playmaking FS and replacing him with a rookie.

Trading the best player on your team (and only offensive playmaker) because he's unhappy.

Waiting and waiting and waiting in free agency and then overspending for a washed up CB.

The list goes on and on.

=========

Thompson's team has won 5 games in two seasons since he took over after having won 12 or 10 a year the past 4 seasons.

I haven't overlooked the injuries. Apparently, TT DID when he fired the coach that never had a losing season until those injuries and TT came along...

 

[Aaronstory]

Thompson has to clean up the mess that Sherman left behind.

This is getting old as well.

=========

Letting the second best LG in the league walk and trying to replace him with bargin basement retreads.

Cutting a playmaking FS and replacing him with a rookie.

Trading the best player on your team (and only offensive playmaker) because he's unhappy.

Waiting and waiting and waiting in free agency and then overspending for a washed up CB.

The list goes on and on.

=========

Thompson's team has won 5 games in two seasons since he took over after having won 12 or 10 a year the past 4 seasons.

I haven't overlooked the injuries. Apparently, TT DID when he fired the coach that never had a losing season until those injuries and TT came along...

As you can see, I haven't always thought this way...

 

[Man in the yellow hat]

Thompson has to clean up the mess that Sherman left behind.

This is getting old as well.

=========

Letting the second best LG in the league walk and trying to replace him with bargin basement retreads.

Cutting a playmaking FS and replacing him with a rookie.

Trading the best player on your team (and only offensive playmaker) because he's unhappy.

Waiting and waiting and waiting in free agency and then overspending for a washed up CB.

The list goes on and on.

=========

Thompson's team has won 5 games in two seasons since he took over after having won 12 or 10 a year the past 4 seasons.

I haven't overlooked the injuries. Apparently, TT DID when he fired the coach that never had a losing season until those injuries and TT came along...

As you can see, I haven't always thought this way...

And here's what I said there, and still believe."Well, he had a hand in Seattle's success (minus the FAs they brought in prior to last season) so he can't be all bad.

I agree he will focues on re-signing key pieces, but he'll also look for reasonably priced veterans who can come in a fill holes. I doubt we'll ever see him award a huge payday to an UFA."

Thompson builds through the draft. While it's sometimes painful to watch, that means sub-par season as he purges the roster. As I said, he will never break the bank on a high priced free agent. But I believe he's putting in a solid foundation of young players on which to build.

 

[Aaronstory]

From JSOnline

Safety Tyrone Culver was summoned to the sideline and either knew better not to leave or simply followed orders. The result was a wide-open tight end L.J. Smith, who scampered 21 yards to the Packers' 4.

"(There were) problems with the no huddle, which is why a lot of people do that, switch personnel groups," McCarthy said. "Culver went on, which was the appropriate personnel group, but the communication for him to come back off was inaccurate, so that's what he did. We were going to our '47' group and that was a miscommunication there."

Hmmm... sounds like current defensive coaching staff screwing up to me...(the rookie knew better but did what he was told)

Oh well, that's probably Shermans fault too.

 

[Pipes]

From JSOnline

Safety Tyrone Culver was summoned to the sideline and either knew better not to leave or simply followed orders. The result was a wide-open tight end L.J. Smith, who scampered 21 yards to the Packers' 4.

"(There were) problems with the no huddle, which is why a lot of people do that, switch personnel groups," McCarthy said. "Culver went on, which was the appropriate personnel group, but the communication for him to come back off was inaccurate, so that's what he did. We were going to our '47' group and that was a miscommunication there."

Hmmm... sounds like current defensive coaching staff screwing up to me...(the rookie knew better but did what he was told)

Oh well, that's probably Shermans fault too.

Yeah other teams don't have personell problems either. We get it you don't like the current defensive coaching staff. Maybe, just maybe you need to be a little more patient...I don't think 4 games is a good barometer to judge how competent the staff is.

 

[mr. furley]

From JSOnline

Safety Tyrone Culver was summoned to the sideline and either knew better not to leave or simply followed orders. The result was a wide-open tight end L.J. Smith, who scampered 21 yards to the Packers' 4.

"(There were) problems with the no huddle, which is why a lot of people do that, switch personnel groups," McCarthy said. "Culver went on, which was the appropriate personnel group, but the communication for him to come back off was inaccurate, so that's what he did. We were going to our '47' group and that was a miscommunication there."

Hmmm... sounds like current defensive coaching staff screwing up to me...(the rookie knew better but did what he was told)

Oh well, that's probably Shermans fault too.

Yeah other teams don't have personell problems either. We get it you don't like the current defensive coaching staff. Maybe, just maybe you need to be a little more patient...I don't think 4 games is a good barometer to judge how competent the staff is.

Aaronstory = Chicken Little-fan

some people like to point out inaccuracies/inadequacies before everyone else. that way if they're right they can be happy and say "see, i told you so." and if it turns out they were wrong and (in this case) the defense improves and turns out to be great.. well.. then, he's happy that they wound up being better than he thought.

it's a win/win. either way he's happy. some people prefer to have it that way.

this thread reminds me of listening to Green Bay sports radio every day. fans who called in back in May to point out what they thought were flaws in the team are now calling in to crow about how they were right.... great..... it's not a stretch to imagine this was going to be a bad team. but these people are breaking their arms trying to pat themselves on their back. you can hear the barely-contained joy in their voices when, for example, Ahmad Carroll gives up a 7 yard completion, because THEY told everyone in the pre-season that he was no good.

 

[MrPack]

I haven't overlooked the injuries. Apparently, TT DID when he fired the coach that never had a losing season until those injuries and TT came along...

first of all.. Thompson came in to be GM. Sherman was DEMOTED from that position to just be coach. that's not a relationship that's going to last. particularly not when people say things like this of Sherman:http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_...17/ai_n13243697

"The head coach thought he was the only one with any brains," said Johnny Roland, who spent the 2004 season coaching Green Bay's running backs before taking the same position in New Orleans this off-season. "There was a lot of collective knowledge in the people that have left. And that knowledge wasn't listened to."

=========

"Coaching's fun again. And at the end, it wasn't in Green Bay," said Jagodzinski, a Wisconsin native who attended UW-Whitewater. "In Atlanta, your opinion matters. And the thing is nobody's afraid to make a suggestion. In Green Bay, a lot of guys bite their tongues on a lot of things.

"Right now, everybody's involved in the decision process and your opinion matters. And if you're in an organization, you want to feel that you're a part of it. And when you don't have any decision- making responsibilities or they don't take your suggestions or whatever, that's frustrating."

=========

"Why do you think those guys left?" Jagodzinski said. "It wasn't to go to a better team. It's because in Green Bay, your ideas don't get listened to."

Roland concurred.

"I think what Jags said is definitely fair," Roland said. "And it's evidenced by the number of coaches that have exited over the last couple of years."

a guy like that is NOT going to be easy to work with. he destroyed the team's depth. coaches were unhappy. players were unhappy. you don't keep that guy on as coach and just hope everything turns around somehow.

I hate Ahmad Carroll. Have since the day they drafted him. Just don't think he's the biggest problem with the Packers. If you can cut a #1 draft pick (and be on the hook for his salary) why can't you admit you made a mistake in hiring Sanders as your DC and fire him, since we're 'making statements about accountability'. What a joke. He's had a MONTH to fix the 'communication problems' in the secondary. He came up with wristbands. Pop. Warner.

you don't fire a coach after 1 month. not one who is in his first season. who by all accounts is ready for the job. he's working in a new scheme with a lot of new players who don't know each other. that's going to take time.if Sanders had been doing this same thing, not taking accountability for any of it and was a poisonous presence on staff.. then i'd be more willing to listen to this arguement.

Well, you just killed your argument right there.No, the whole reason he was hired is because he supposedly KNEW the scheme better than anyone outside of Jim Bates. They didn't want to install yet ANOTHER new system on defense, so Sanders got the nod. And it's looking to be a horrible, horrible mistake.

he's working with Hawk, Poppinga, Manuel, Woodson, Pickett, Allen, etc. they weren't here last year (excepting Poppinga) to learn the defense. so TO THEM it's brand new.. and you can throw in the new guys like Culver/Bush/Taylor, etc who are just now learning it. your only real holdovers from last season are Barnett, KGB, Kampmann, Harris & Collins who is in his 2nd year. our front 4 has been fine stopping the run but generates no pass rush. that's more from a lack of pass rush talent than anything. and we can't blitz and expose the DB's on every #######g play

we have 2 new LB's and 2 new DB's. they're struggling in coverage. it happens. what i consistently saw in the first 4 weeks is Poppinga struggling to cover (knee) and Carroll struggling to cover. Manuel is supposed to be back there making the calls.. obviously he's not doing a good job but he didn't play in the pre-season.

do you really watch the games? or just read the newspapers?

should the Packers be 14-2 every year and play mistake free football?? this is why i avoid the SP.

Damn

 

[MrPack]

From JSOnline

Safety Tyrone Culver was summoned to the sideline and either knew better not to leave or simply followed orders. The result was a wide-open tight end L.J. Smith, who scampered 21 yards to the Packers' 4.

"(There were) problems with the no huddle, which is why a lot of people do that, switch personnel groups," McCarthy said. "Culver went on, which was the appropriate personnel group, but the communication for him to come back off was inaccurate, so that's what he did. We were going to our '47' group and that was a miscommunication there."

Hmmm... sounds like current defensive coaching staff screwing up to me...(the rookie knew better but did what he was told)

Oh well, that's probably Shermans fault too.

Yeah other teams don't have personell problems either. We get it you don't like the current defensive coaching staff. Maybe, just maybe you need to be a little more patient...I don't think 4 games is a good barometer to judge how competent the staff is.

Fixed. It's quite obvious he has real disdain for the current administration, not just the DEF coaching staff.

 

[Aaronstory]

From JSOnline

Safety Tyrone Culver was summoned to the sideline and either knew better not to leave or simply followed orders. The result was a wide-open tight end L.J. Smith, who scampered 21 yards to the Packers' 4.

"(There were) problems with the no huddle, which is why a lot of people do that, switch personnel groups," McCarthy said. "Culver went on, which was the appropriate personnel group, but the communication for him to come back off was inaccurate, so that's what he did. We were going to our '47' group and that was a miscommunication there."

Hmmm... sounds like current defensive coaching staff screwing up to me...(the rookie knew better but did what he was told)

Oh well, that's probably Shermans fault too.

Yeah other teams don't have personell problems either. We get it you don't like the current defensive coaching staff. Maybe, just maybe you need to be a little more patient...I don't think 4 games is a good barometer to judge how competent the staff is.

Fixed. It's quite obvious he has real disdain for the current administration, not just the DEF coaching staff.

Right. That's why I started a topic called "In Praise of Ted Thompson"There are so many irrational, emotional responses now, I can't even keep up. I'm "Chicken Little"? Too funny. I'm not the one posting in all caps and using a ton of emoticons. I've kept my tone level (not to mention civil, which is more than I can say for some)

I'll say it one more time, there is PLENTY of blame to go around. The world isn't black and white. There is no right answer here. The things I've pointed out about Thompson are not 'the sky is falling' merely observations. And you all love to skip over the fact that I blame Sherman as well.

Go Pack Go.

 

[mr. furley]

oooooooooooof

http://www.packersnews.com/includes/newspa...der/index.shtml

Carroll back in football -- arena football

Apparently, Ahmad Carroll is about as good at forming appropriate metaphors as covering receivers.

Carroll, a former first-round pick the Packers released after a brutal performance against Philadelphia early in the 2006 season, joined the Arena Football League's Orlando Predators in training camp this week. According to the team's Web site, after seeing a collision in practice, Carroll said, "We are not shooting blanks out here, if we were at paintball right now you would be shot."

Carroll's last stint with an NFL team, the Jacksonville Jaguars, ended after he was arrested on weapon and drug charges in May.

Carroll had a tryout last season with the New York Jets but wasn't signed, and he hasn't been in the NFL since the Jaguars cut him after the arrest. Showing he can play in the arena league may be Carroll's best chance for getting one more, um, shot.

“He’s a special guy, special athlete, a competitor," coach Jay Gruden, brother of Bucs coach Jon Gruden, told the Web site. "He has a long way to go to learn this game, but so far so good we are excited about him."