Paleo / Primal Blueprint type diets (1 Viewer)

[Random]

This diet is completely sustainable from the perspective that it can be incorporated into daily routine to the point that it becomes natural and easy to find and make paleo choices. It is not a matter of willpower either IMO, if you want that doughnut or cupcake or whatever then knock yourself out and enjoy it. You should enjoy eating and not view it as a negative. The tough part is the initial phase where you work on making the changes and sustaining it long enough that it becomes your natural state.

For me this occurred over the course of maybe 4-5 years and came only after I did massive amounts of reading up on the issue. The process of getting from there to here was long and it took work but now it has gotten to the point that I don't even think twice about my food choices wherever I go.

My introduction into truly understanding my food supply began about five years ago when I read The Omnivore's Dilemma which appalled me enough and made me curious enough that I started reading more and more about what really goes into the food I eat. Off the top of my head, since that point I have read Fast Food Nation, The Paleo Diet, The Primal Blueprint, Good Calories Bad Calories, The Perfect Health Diet, The Biology of Belief, The Omega Diet, The Vegetarian Myth, Why We Get Fat, Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers and probably 5-10 more books on the topic that I can't remember at the moment. Not to mention the countless blogs, message boards and pretty much anything posted by Maurile in here. It took all of that to get me to the point that I don't think twice about my food choices and my indulgences into non Paleo food choices are extremely infrequent and often a disappointment. Eat paleo for long enough and your palate will change to the point that most processed food will taste...processed.

I find eating paleo to be extremely easy at this point. The really, extremely, incredibly difficult part was breaking the mental attachment, established over decades, to the comfort foods in the S.A.D. That part took me years.

 

[moleculo]

This diet is completely sustainable from the perspective that it can be incorporated into daily routine to the point that it becomes natural and easy to find and make paleo choices. It is not a matter of willpower either IMO, if you want that doughnut or cupcake or whatever then knock yourself out and enjoy it. You should enjoy eating and not view it as a negative. The tough part is the initial phase where you work on making the changes and sustaining it long enough that it becomes your natural state.

For me this occurred over the course of maybe 4-5 years and came only after I did massive amounts of reading up on the issue. The process of getting from there to here was long and it took work but now it has gotten to the point that I don't even think twice about my food choices wherever I go.

My introduction into truly understanding my food supply began about five years ago when I read The Omnivore's Dilemma which appalled me enough and made me curious enough that I started reading more and more about what really goes into the food I eat. Off the top of my head, since that point I have read Fast Food Nation, The Paleo Diet, The Primal Blueprint, Good Calories Bad Calories, The Perfect Health Diet, The Biology of Belief, The Omega Diet, The Vegetarian Myth, Why We Get Fat, Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers and probably 5-10 more books on the topic that I can't remember at the moment. Not to mention the countless blogs, message boards and pretty much anything posted by Maurile in here. It took all of that to get me to the point that I don't think twice about my food choices and my indulgences into non Paleo food choices are extremely infrequent and often a disappointment. Eat paleo for long enough and your palate will change to the point that most processed food will taste...processed.

I find eating paleo to be extremely easy at this point. The really, extremely, incredibly difficult part was breaking the mental attachment, established over decades, to the comfort foods in the S.A.D. That part took me years.

interesting. It's as much un-learning bad behaviors as it is learning about good food choices. Makes sense - it took me 37 years to get to where I am now, it's gotta be tough to break these habits/cravings.

 

[Chaka]

This diet is completely sustainable from the perspective that it can be incorporated into daily routine to the point that it becomes natural and easy to find and make paleo choices. It is not a matter of willpower either IMO, if you want that doughnut or cupcake or whatever then knock yourself out and enjoy it. You should enjoy eating and not view it as a negative. The tough part is the initial phase where you work on making the changes and sustaining it long enough that it becomes your natural state.

For me this occurred over the course of maybe 4-5 years and came only after I did massive amounts of reading up on the issue. The process of getting from there to here was long and it took work but now it has gotten to the point that I don't even think twice about my food choices wherever I go.

My introduction into truly understanding my food supply began about five years ago when I read The Omnivore's Dilemma which appalled me enough and made me curious enough that I started reading more and more about what really goes into the food I eat. Off the top of my head, since that point I have read Fast Food Nation, The Paleo Diet, The Primal Blueprint, Good Calories Bad Calories, The Perfect Health Diet, The Biology of Belief, The Omega Diet, The Vegetarian Myth, Why We Get Fat, Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers and probably 5-10 more books on the topic that I can't remember at the moment. Not to mention the countless blogs, message boards and pretty much anything posted by Maurile in here. It took all of that to get me to the point that I don't think twice about my food choices and my indulgences into non Paleo food choices are extremely infrequent and often a disappointment. Eat paleo for long enough and your palate will change to the point that most processed food will taste...processed.

I find eating paleo to be extremely easy at this point. The really, extremely, incredibly difficult part was breaking the mental attachment, established over decades, to the comfort foods in the S.A.D. That part took me years.

interesting. It's as much un-learning bad behaviors as it is learning about good food choices. Makes sense - it took me 37 years to get to where I am now, it's gotta be tough to break these habits/cravings.

Cravings never go away completely. I still go off the reservation from time to time but it's fun and a short term indulgence. Not everyone wants to go completely paleo either, everyone has their own happy medium. Either way it takes time and you have to remember not to get frustrated.

 

[UniAlias]

My wife recently got a Dexcom Glucose Monitor to treat Type1. This checks BG every 3 minutes. She's not tech savvy so I'm considering using it for 2-3 days to figure it out so I can debug any issues she has with it. I'm halfway thinking about having a normal diet day for me then following it up with eating the worst #### I can find. I'm curious how much my BG swings.

Let me know if you want to catch lunch together on the "worst #### I can find" day.

 

[gonzobill5]

Sorry if this was discussed already, but is it possible to gain weight on a paleo diet? I tried it out last summer and dropped from 165 pounds into the 145 range. I felt great on the diet but worried about the weight loss. I started lifting weights and eating like I did before and I'm back above 160, though a lot stronger and leaner. Is there any way to get the benefits of paleo without the weight loss?

 

[bostonfred]

I'm sure they dont have the best ingredients, but cant you get a salad at McD's? Surely its better than a DoubleQPwC value meal.

Iirc the salad has more fat and calories than a cheeseburger and fries.

 

[culdeus]

Sorry if this was discussed already, but is it possible to gain weight on a paleo diet? I tried it out last summer and dropped from 165 pounds into the 145 range. I felt great on the diet but worried about the weight loss. I started lifting weights and eating like I did before and I'm back above 160, though a lot stronger and leaner. Is there any way to get the benefits of paleo without the weight loss?

This was my problem and why I'm dubious of going any more than about 75/25 this route.

 

[mr roboto]

Sorry if this was discussed already, but is it possible to gain weight on a paleo diet? I tried it out last summer and dropped from 165 pounds into the 145 range. I felt great on the diet but worried about the weight loss. I started lifting weights and eating like I did before and I'm back above 160, though a lot stronger and leaner. Is there any way to get the benefits of paleo without the weight loss?

This was my problem and why I'm dubious of going any more than about 75/25 this route.

What did you lose? Fat, muscle?If you exercise, you will build lean muscle and the protein in the diet will aid in recovery and rebuilding of muscle.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

interesting. It's as much un-learning bad behaviors as it is learning about good food choices. Makes sense - it took me 37 years to get to where I am now, it's gotta be tough to break these habits/cravings.

As someone getting back on the horse after falling pretty far of the reservation (I am mixing metaphors with wild abandon), I think you have to acknowledge that the food environment we live in is pretty terrible for any sensible eating plan. If you are vulnerable to gaining weight or eating badly, you're going to have to exercise some type of foresight and control or lose progress. And that's true whether you're watching calories, or fat, or carbs, or counting points, or avoiding gluten or whatever.

 

[moleculo]

Sorry if this was discussed already, but is it possible to gain weight on a paleo diet? I tried it out last summer and dropped from 165 pounds into the 145 range. I felt great on the diet but worried about the weight loss. I started lifting weights and eating like I did before and I'm back above 160, though a lot stronger and leaner. Is there any way to get the benefits of paleo without the weight loss?

A buddy of mine was been trying to put on muscle for years and wasn't able to gain any weight until he went paleo. The way he puts it, a paleo diet allows your body to "right size" - if you are lifting for mass, a paleo diet will allow your body to better absorb the nutrients it needs to add muscle. His version of paleo may include more proteins than typically suggested, not really sure.What did your belly look like when you went from 165 to 145? Did you lose that spare tire? Maybe some flab? When I dropped from 165 to 145, I went down two inches in my pants size and most definitely lost some flab. If you are losing 20 lbs doing this diet, I wouldn't worry at all about weight loss, it is probably a good thing.

 

[culdeus]

Sorry if this was discussed already, but is it possible to gain weight on a paleo diet? I tried it out last summer and dropped from 165 pounds into the 145 range. I felt great on the diet but worried about the weight loss. I started lifting weights and eating like I did before and I'm back above 160, though a lot stronger and leaner. Is there any way to get the benefits of paleo without the weight loss?

This was my problem and why I'm dubious of going any more than about 75/25 this route.

What did you lose? Fat, muscle?If you exercise, you will build lean muscle and the protein in the diet will aid in recovery and rebuilding of muscle.

I do lift much heavier and push/pull ups are 3x up in the last year. Still trying to extend that, plus I'm still doing a lot of cycling. Not a fan of my 145 look. 155 is my happy weight. It's hard for me to hold that line with a strict paleo. At some point the cardio has nothing to feed off and I worry I'm eating muscle.

 

[Random]

Sorry if this was discussed already, but is it possible to gain weight on a paleo diet? I tried it out last summer and dropped from 165 pounds into the 145 range. I felt great on the diet but worried about the weight loss. I started lifting weights and eating like I did before and I'm back above 160, though a lot stronger and leaner. Is there any way to get the benefits of paleo without the weight loss?

I went from 150 to 130 on strict paleo. I pretty much just added potatoes and rice back in the mix and regained the weight. Also lost 2-3 inches on my waist that didn't come back.

 

[Random]

I'm sure they dont have the best ingredients, but cant you get a salad at McD's? Surely its better than a DoubleQPwC value meal.

Iirc the salad has more fat and calories than a cheeseburger and fries.

And?

 

[-jb-]

Sorry if this was discussed already, but is it possible to gain weight on a paleo diet? I tried it out last summer and dropped from 165 pounds into the 145 range. I felt great on the diet but worried about the weight loss. I started lifting weights and eating like I did before and I'm back above 160, though a lot stronger and leaner. Is there any way to get the benefits of paleo without the weight loss?

This was my problem and why I'm dubious of going any more than about 75/25 this route.

What did you lose? Fat, muscle?If you exercise, you will build lean muscle and the protein in the diet will aid in recovery and rebuilding of muscle.

I do lift much heavier and push/pull ups are 3x up in the last year. Still trying to extend that, plus I'm still doing a lot of cycling. Not a fan of my 145 look. 155 is my happy weight. It's hard for me to hold that line with a strict paleo. At some point the cardio has nothing to feed off and I worry I'm eating muscle.

Maybe add some some more fruit to your diet. If you're doing a lot of cycling (and assuming it's long distance rather than sprint), your body will likely need more carbs than what the typical paleo menu provides for.

 

[mr roboto]

Sorry if this was discussed already, but is it possible to gain weight on a paleo diet? I tried it out last summer and dropped from 165 pounds into the 145 range. I felt great on the diet but worried about the weight loss. I started lifting weights and eating like I did before and I'm back above 160, though a lot stronger and leaner. Is there any way to get the benefits of paleo without the weight loss?

This was my problem and why I'm dubious of going any more than about 75/25 this route.

What did you lose? Fat, muscle?If you exercise, you will build lean muscle and the protein in the diet will aid in recovery and rebuilding of muscle.

I do lift much heavier and push/pull ups are 3x up in the last year. Still trying to extend that, plus I'm still doing a lot of cycling. Not a fan of my 145 look. 155 is my happy weight. It's hard for me to hold that line with a strict paleo. At some point the cardio has nothing to feed off and I worry I'm eating muscle.

Maybe add some some more fruit to your diet. If you're doing a lot of cycling (and assuming it's long distance rather than sprint), your body will likely need more carbs than what the typical paleo menu provides for.

I would agree here. There are studies that show a reduced calorie diet + steady state long duration cardio can burn muscle.

 

[kutta]

Sorry if this was discussed already, but is it possible to gain weight on a paleo diet? I tried it out last summer and dropped from 165 pounds into the 145 range. I felt great on the diet but worried about the weight loss. I started lifting weights and eating like I did before and I'm back above 160, though a lot stronger and leaner. Is there any way to get the benefits of paleo without the weight loss?

I went from 150 to 130 on strict paleo. I pretty much just added potatoes and rice back in the mix and regained the weight. Also lost 2-3 inches on my waist that didn't come back.

WTF? 130 lbs? I haven't weighed 130 lbs since 1977.

 

[Chaka]

I'm sure they dont have the best ingredients, but cant you get a salad at McD's? Surely its better than a DoubleQPwC value meal.

Iirc the salad has more fat and calories than a cheeseburger and fries.

It depends. A cheeseburger and small fries has 530 calories and 23 grams of fat (62 grams carbs and 18 grams pro). And I think it is a big assumption to suggest the average person is only getting a cheeseburger and small fries but that is neither here nor there.Their "worst" salad and dressing is the Premium Southwest Salad with Crispy Chicken and Newman's Own Creamy Caesar Dressing which has 640 calories and 39 grams of fat (46 grams carbs and 25 grams pro).Their "best" salad with dressing is the Premium Caesar Salad with Grilled Chicken and Newman's Own Low Fat Balsamic Vinaigrette which has 225 calories and 7.5 grams of fat (13 grams carbs and 27 grams pro).

 

[Chaka]

Sorry if this was discussed already, but is it possible to gain weight on a paleo diet? I tried it out last summer and dropped from 165 pounds into the 145 range. I felt great on the diet but worried about the weight loss. I started lifting weights and eating like I did before and I'm back above 160, though a lot stronger and leaner. Is there any way to get the benefits of paleo without the weight loss?

I went from 150 to 130 on strict paleo. I pretty much just added potatoes and rice back in the mix and regained the weight. Also lost 2-3 inches on my waist that didn't come back.

WTF? 130 lbs? I haven't weighed 130 lbs since 1977.

The only time I ever saw 130 lbs was on the way up.

 

[gonzobill5]

Sorry if this was discussed already, but is it possible to gain weight on a paleo diet? I tried it out last summer and dropped from 165 pounds into the 145 range. I felt great on the diet but worried about the weight loss. I started lifting weights and eating like I did before and I'm back above 160, though a lot stronger and leaner. Is there any way to get the benefits of paleo without the weight loss?

This was my problem and why I'm dubious of going any more than about 75/25 this route.

What did you lose? Fat, muscle?If you exercise, you will build lean muscle and the protein in the diet will aid in recovery and rebuilding of muscle.

I lost mostly fat, I assume. I didn't have much muscle to begin with. When I tried paleo over the summer, I was running about 20 miles per week, but lifting weights only sporadically. I'm not currently running, but have been lifting weights 4 times per week. I'm thinking of trying Paleo again without the running and monitoring my calories. If I can keep my weight or even better, gain some more muscle I'll start to cycle the running back in. Another question - I recently started drinking a protein shake (one of those whey powders mixed with milk) after workouts. I figure I should keep doing this since its loaded with calories. Is it essential for me to use soy instead if I go back to Paleo or can I just stick with milk? Is there a better option?

 

[phrozen]

Sorry if this was discussed already, but is it possible to gain weight on a paleo diet? I tried it out last summer and dropped from 165 pounds into the 145 range. I felt great on the diet but worried about the weight loss. I started lifting weights and eating like I did before and I'm back above 160, though a lot stronger and leaner. Is there any way to get the benefits of paleo without the weight loss?

This was my problem and why I'm dubious of going any more than about 75/25 this route.

What did you lose? Fat, muscle?If you exercise, you will build lean muscle and the protein in the diet will aid in recovery and rebuilding of muscle.

I lost mostly fat, I assume. I didn't have much muscle to begin with. When I tried paleo over the summer, I was running about 20 miles per week, but lifting weights only sporadically. I'm not currently running, but have been lifting weights 4 times per week. I'm thinking of trying Paleo again without the running and monitoring my calories. If I can keep my weight or even better, gain some more muscle I'll start to cycle the running back in. Another question - I recently started drinking a protein shake (one of those whey powders mixed with milk) after workouts. I figure I should keep doing this since its loaded with calories. Is it essential for me to use soy instead if I go back to Paleo or can I just stick with milk? Is there a better option?

Stay far far away from Soy in all forms. Try Coconut Milk. You can find it next to the soy and almond milks.

 

[phrozen]

I've decided to go into Ketosis for the month of February. Also mix in some IF.

 

[Mister CIA]

I've decided to go into Ketosis for the month of February. Also mix in some IF.

CliffsNote on this. It's essentially close to zero carb, I get that, but what's the benefit? ...Rapid weight loss? Do you eat any vegetables during this time? If not, are vitamin supplements a must?

 

[Maelstrom]

I'm sure they dont have the best ingredients, but cant you get a salad at McD's? Surely its better than a DoubleQPwC value meal.

Iirc the salad has more fat and calories than a cheeseburger and fries.

It depends. A cheeseburger and small fries has 530 calories and 23 grams of fat (62 grams carbs and 18 grams pro). And I think it is a big assumption to suggest the average person is only getting a cheeseburger and small fries but that is neither here nor there.Their "worst" salad and dressing is the Premium Southwest Salad with Crispy Chicken and Newman's Own Creamy Caesar Dressing which has 640 calories and 39 grams of fat (46 grams carbs and 25 grams pro).Their "best" salad with dressing is the Premium Caesar Salad with Grilled Chicken and Newman's Own Low Fat Balsamic Vinaigrette which has 225 calories and 7.5 grams of fat (13 grams carbs and 27 grams pro).

The dressing is something to watch out for at fast food places - for example, if you are watching your overall carb intake as part of the diet, Wendy's Pomegranate Vinaigrette Dressing has 16 carbs while the Avacado Ranch has 3 carbs. Plus the Avacado Ranch has more calories and fat which sometimes you are looking to add in a Paleo diet (as I understand it, since you are often eating less, you need more calorie rich foods.)

 

[phrozen]

I've decided to go into Ketosis for the month of February. Also mix in some IF.

CliffsNote on this. It's essentially close to zero carb, I get that, but what's the benefit? ...Rapid weight loss? Do you eat any vegetables during this time? If not, are vitamin supplements a must?

My linkFor me, I am doing it for weight loss. I have about 15 pounds I want to lose over time and Ketosis will help. I don't subscribe to the Adkins version of Ketosis where you limit carb intake. As Sisson says in the link above, less than 20 restricts your ability to eat veggies. I'm going to shoot for 40-60 carbs per day with it mainly coming from vegetables and occasional fruit.

 

[snitwitch]

I've decided to go into Ketosis for the month of February. Also mix in some IF.

CliffsNote on this. It's essentially close to zero carb, I get that, but what's the benefit? ...Rapid weight loss? Do you eat any vegetables during this time? If not, are vitamin supplements a must?

My linkFor me, I am doing it for weight loss. I have about 15 pounds I want to lose over time and Ketosis will help. I don't subscribe to the Adkins version of Ketosis where you limit carb intake. As Sisson says in the link above, less than 20 restricts your ability to eat veggies. I'm going to shoot for 40-60 carbs per day with it mainly coming from vegetables and occasional fruit.

I kept to fairly close to full keto for january (was peeing on the strips and getting a small to medium reading), and ended up dropping at least 10 lbs, maybe more. No cheese either, which atkins would permit. Was also lifting 3x a week and doing a boot camp type workout 2x a week.

 

[gonzobill5]

Sorry if this was discussed already, but is it possible to gain weight on a paleo diet? I tried it out last summer and dropped from 165 pounds into the 145 range. I felt great on the diet but worried about the weight loss. I started lifting weights and eating like I did before and I'm back above 160, though a lot stronger and leaner. Is there any way to get the benefits of paleo without the weight loss?

This was my problem and why I'm dubious of going any more than about 75/25 this route.

What did you lose? Fat, muscle?If you exercise, you will build lean muscle and the protein in the diet will aid in recovery and rebuilding of muscle.

I lost mostly fat, I assume. I didn't have much muscle to begin with. When I tried paleo over the summer, I was running about 20 miles per week, but lifting weights only sporadically. I'm not currently running, but have been lifting weights 4 times per week. I'm thinking of trying Paleo again without the running and monitoring my calories. If I can keep my weight or even better, gain some more muscle I'll start to cycle the running back in. Another question - I recently started drinking a protein shake (one of those whey powders mixed with milk) after workouts. I figure I should keep doing this since its loaded with calories. Is it essential for me to use soy instead if I go back to Paleo or can I just stick with milk? Is there a better option?

Stay far far away from Soy in all forms. Try Coconut Milk. You can find it next to the soy and almond milks.

I ended up buying some Almond milk. Is coconut milk preferred for any reason?

 

[Rick James]

I think almond milk tends to have more sugar.

 

[phrozen]

I think almond milk tends to have more sugar.

And less saturated fat which is why I prefer coconut milk

 

[culdeus]

Sorry if this was discussed already, but is it possible to gain weight on a paleo diet? I tried it out last summer and dropped from 165 pounds into the 145 range. I felt great on the diet but worried about the weight loss. I started lifting weights and eating like I did before and I'm back above 160, though a lot stronger and leaner. Is there any way to get the benefits of paleo without the weight loss?

This was my problem and why I'm dubious of going any more than about 75/25 this route.

What did you lose? Fat, muscle?If you exercise, you will build lean muscle and the protein in the diet will aid in recovery and rebuilding of muscle.

I do lift much heavier and push/pull ups are 3x up in the last year. Still trying to extend that, plus I'm still doing a lot of cycling. Not a fan of my 145 look. 155 is my happy weight. It's hard for me to hold that line with a strict paleo. At some point the cardio has nothing to feed off and I worry I'm eating muscle.

You're the only cyclist every who wants to gain weight. Get some of the race guys in the shop talking about this and it sounds like a bunch of women.

lol, yeah.

 

[culdeus]

Sorry if this was discussed already, but is it possible to gain weight on a paleo diet? I tried it out last summer and dropped from 165 pounds into the 145 range. I felt great on the diet but worried about the weight loss. I started lifting weights and eating like I did before and I'm back above 160, though a lot stronger and leaner. Is there any way to get the benefits of paleo without the weight loss?

This was my problem and why I'm dubious of going any more than about 75/25 this route.

What did you lose? Fat, muscle?If you exercise, you will build lean muscle and the protein in the diet will aid in recovery and rebuilding of muscle.

I lost mostly fat, I assume. I didn't have much muscle to begin with. When I tried paleo over the summer, I was running about 20 miles per week, but lifting weights only sporadically. I'm not currently running, but have been lifting weights 4 times per week. I'm thinking of trying Paleo again without the running and monitoring my calories. If I can keep my weight or even better, gain some more muscle I'll start to cycle the running back in. Another question - I recently started drinking a protein shake (one of those whey powders mixed with milk) after workouts. I figure I should keep doing this since its loaded with calories. Is it essential for me to use soy instead if I go back to Paleo or can I just stick with milk? Is there a better option?

Stay far far away from Soy in all forms. Try Coconut Milk. You can find it next to the soy and almond milks.

I still think the data against soy is thin, and mostly based on animal studies which have shown to have little analog to humans. Also, much of the same compounds the anti-soy people fight against are found in most all green plant matter which Paleo types cherish. Given the general hate for soy you would think a proper peer reviewed study against it would have come out in the past 5 years, but nothing of the sort at all has surfaced I'm aware of.I figure in a couple more years we will look really silly for setting aside soy as a clean and inexpensive protein source for so long.

 

[-jb-]

Hey culdeus, seems like you've come around on the Paleo thing. What/when was the tipping point?

 

[culdeus]

Hey culdeus, seems like you've come around on the Paleo thing. What/when was the tipping point?

Nothing in particular, however I was pretty tight on my diet before this stuff got out. I've always said this was a repackaged atkins low carb/no-processed diet which is what I've always tried to have. The slant against grains and soy still to me seems to be iffy. My logic has been that the anti-grain stuff probably stems from studies that failed to exclude high gluten intolerant people that are poorly diagnosed or non-compliant. Soy stuff to me seems like junk science packaged with an agenda. That being said I try to get as few carbs as I can from grains now for more than anything to balance the macros right. Keep in mind I was 98% vegan for 6 years out of college. My diet in college was pure 100% grade A ####. My weight wasn't terrible but I was in horrible fitness shape, I damn near had gout, and my acid reflux got so bad I couldn't sleep. All that cleared up with diet changes so I am sensitive on an anecdotal levels to seeing things that rally against those that work/ed for me.I still feel that if you want to lose a crap ton of weight there's probably no better diet to follow, nor is there one that you can stay with long term better. My only qualms are with some of the restrictions that seem fairly loosely grounded in facts.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

I still think the data against soy is thin, and mostly based on animal studies which have shown to have little analog to humans.

There's an involuntary human study being conducted right now in Illinois.http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2009-12-21/news/0912200121_1_soy-protein-soy-cheeses-soyfoods-associationhttp://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/feb/28/soy-diet-prompts-prisoners-lawsuit/?page=allhttp://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/12/us/soy-diet-is-cruel-and-unusual-florida-inmate-claims.html?_r=0

 

[phrozen]

Hey culdeus, seems like you've come around on the Paleo thing. What/when was the tipping point?

Nothing in particular, however I was pretty tight on my diet before this stuff got out. I've always said this was a repackaged atkins low carb/no-processed diet which is what I've always tried to have. The slant against grains and soy still to me seems to be iffy. My logic has been that the anti-grain stuff probably stems from studies that failed to exclude high gluten intolerant people that are poorly diagnosed or non-compliant. Soy stuff to me seems like junk science packaged with an agenda. That being said I try to get as few carbs as I can from grains now for more than anything to balance the macros right. Keep in mind I was 98% vegan for 6 years out of college. My diet in college was pure 100% grade A ####. My weight wasn't terrible but I was in horrible fitness shape, I damn near had gout, and my acid reflux got so bad I couldn't sleep. All that cleared up with diet changes so I am sensitive on an anecdotal levels to seeing things that rally against those that work/ed for me.I still feel that if you want to lose a crap ton of weight there's probably no better diet to follow, nor is there one that you can stay with long term better. My only qualms are with some of the restrictions that seem fairly loosely grounded in facts.

The proliferation of soy into the modern American diet is also pushed with an agenda. Additionally, there has been a lot of discussion and research done related to the rise of polyunsaturated fats (mainly from seed oils including soybean)in the American diet since the creation of vegetable oils 120 or so years ago.

 

[culdeus]

Hey culdeus, seems like you've come around on the Paleo thing. What/when was the tipping point?

Nothing in particular, however I was pretty tight on my diet before this stuff got out. I've always said this was a repackaged atkins low carb/no-processed diet which is what I've always tried to have. The slant against grains and soy still to me seems to be iffy. My logic has been that the anti-grain stuff probably stems from studies that failed to exclude high gluten intolerant people that are poorly diagnosed or non-compliant. Soy stuff to me seems like junk science packaged with an agenda. That being said I try to get as few carbs as I can from grains now for more than anything to balance the macros right. Keep in mind I was 98% vegan for 6 years out of college. My diet in college was pure 100% grade A ####. My weight wasn't terrible but I was in horrible fitness shape, I damn near had gout, and my acid reflux got so bad I couldn't sleep. All that cleared up with diet changes so I am sensitive on an anecdotal levels to seeing things that rally against those that work/ed for me.I still feel that if you want to lose a crap ton of weight there's probably no better diet to follow, nor is there one that you can stay with long term better. My only qualms are with some of the restrictions that seem fairly loosely grounded in facts.

The proliferation of soy into the modern American diet is also pushed with an agenda. Additionally, there has been a lot of discussion and research done related to the rise of polyunsaturated fats (mainly from seed oils including soybean)in the American diet since the creation of vegetable oils 120 or so years ago.

None of that deals with the use of soy protein, which no anti-soy person can really produce on demand. Veg oil is not good, and that's not just because soy oil is in there.

 

[Statcruncher]

Didn't really have a place to put this but now that vegetable oils and polyunsaturated fats have mentioned this is as good a place as any.

New data from old study reveals that reducing saturated fat in favour of 'vegetable' oils increases risk of heart attack and can have fatal consequences.

And for the record I think fermented soy is probably cool, but I truly doubt the health benefits of genetically modified soy sprayed with roundup and crammed into every product imaginable because it's cheap. If you by Starkist canned tuna in water it's got soy in it. If you want to avoid soy it's just about impossible unless you eat one ingredient foods.

 

[phrozen]

STUDY: EVEN ANCIENT MUMMIES HAD CLOGGED ARTERIES

BY MARIA CHENG

AP MEDICAL WRITER

AP Photo/Dr. Michael Miyamoto

SCIENCE VIDEO

BUY AP PHOTO REPRINTS

MULTIMEDIA

EBOLA? SARS? SMALLPOX? TOUR THE PROTECTIVE SUIT.

LONDON (AP) -- Even without modern-day temptations like fast food or cigarettes, people had clogged arteries some 4,000 years ago, according to the biggest-ever study of mummies searching for the condition.

Researchers say that suggests heart disease may be more a natural part of human aging rather than being directly tied to contemporary risk factors like smoking, eating fatty foods and not exercising.

CT scans of 137 mummies showed evidence of atherosclerosis, or hardened arteries, in one third of those examined, including those from ancient people believed to have healthy lifestyles. Atherosclerosis causes heart attacks and strokes. More than half of the mummies were from Egypt while the rest were from Peru, southwest America and the Aleutian islands in Alaska. The mummies were from about 3800 B.C. to 1900 A.D.

"Heart disease has been stalking mankind for over 4,000 years all over the globe," said Dr. Randall Thompson, a cardiologist at Saint Luke's Mid America Heart Institute in Kansas City and the paper's lead author.

The mummies with clogged arteries were older at the time of their death, around 43 versus 32 for those without the condition. In most cases, scientists couldn't say whether the heart disease killed them.

The study results were announced Sunday at a meeting of the American College of Cardiology in San Francisco and simultaneously published online in the journal Lancet.

Thompson said he was surprised to see hardened arteries even in people like the ancient Aleutians who were presumed to have a healthy lifestyle as hunter-gatherers.

"I think it's fair to say people should feel less guilty about getting heart disease in modern times," he said. "We may have oversold the idea that a healthy lifestyle can completely eliminate your risk."

Thompson said there could be unknown factors that contributed to the mummies' narrowed arteries. He said the Ancestral Puebloans who lived in underground caves in modern-day Colorado and Utah, used fire for heat and cooking, producing a lot of smoke.

"They were breathing in a lot of smoke and that could have had the same effect as cigarettes," he said.

Previous studies have found evidence of heart disease in Egyptian mummies, but the Lancet paper is the largest survey so far and the first to include mummies elsewhere in the world.

Dr. Frank Ruehli of the University of Zurich, who runs the Swiss Mummy Project, said it was clear atherosclerosis was notably present in antiquity and agreed there might be a genetic predisposition to the disease.

"Humans seem to have a particular vulnerability (to heart disease) and it will be interesting to see what genes are involved," he said. Ruehli was not connected to the study. "This is a piece in the puzzle that may tell us something important about the evolution of disease."

Other experts warned against reading too much into the mummy data.

Dr. Mike Knapton, associate medical director at the British Heart Foundation said calcified arteries could also be caused by other ailments including endocrine disorders and that it was impossible tell from the CT scans if the types of calcium deposits in the mummies were the kind that would have sparked a heart attack or stroke.

"It's a fascinating study but I'm not sure we can say atherosclerosis is an inevitable part of aging," he said, citing the numerous studies that have showed strong links between lifestyle factors and heart disease.

Researcher Thompson advised people to live as healthy a lifestyle as possible, noting that the risk of heart disease could be reduced with good eating habits, not smoking and exercising. "We don't have to end up like the mummies," he said.

LINKSaw this online today and thought it was very interesting. Cereal grains formed the backbone of the Ancient Egyptian diet. Hmmm I wonder if there is a connection there....

 

[Sabertooth]

STUDY: EVEN ANCIENT MUMMIES HAD CLOGGED ARTERIES

BY MARIA CHENG

AP MEDICAL WRITER

AP Photo/Dr. Michael Miyamoto

SCIENCE VIDEO

BUY AP PHOTO REPRINTS

MULTIMEDIA

EBOLA? SARS? SMALLPOX? TOUR THE PROTECTIVE SUIT.

LONDON (AP) -- Even without modern-day temptations like fast food or cigarettes, people had clogged arteries some 4,000 years ago, according to the biggest-ever study of mummies searching for the condition.

Researchers say that suggests heart disease may be more a natural part of human aging rather than being directly tied to contemporary risk factors like smoking, eating fatty foods and not exercising.

CT scans of 137 mummies showed evidence of atherosclerosis, or hardened arteries, in one third of those examined, including those from ancient people believed to have healthy lifestyles. Atherosclerosis causes heart attacks and strokes. More than half of the mummies were from Egypt while the rest were from Peru, southwest America and the Aleutian islands in Alaska. The mummies were from about 3800 B.C. to 1900 A.D.

"Heart disease has been stalking mankind for over 4,000 years all over the globe," said Dr. Randall Thompson, a cardiologist at Saint Luke's Mid America Heart Institute in Kansas City and the paper's lead author.

The mummies with clogged arteries were older at the time of their death, around 43 versus 32 for those without the condition. In most cases, scientists couldn't say whether the heart disease killed them.

The study results were announced Sunday at a meeting of the American College of Cardiology in San Francisco and simultaneously published online in the journal Lancet.

Thompson said he was surprised to see hardened arteries even in people like the ancient Aleutians who were presumed to have a healthy lifestyle as hunter-gatherers.

"I think it's fair to say people should feel less guilty about getting heart disease in modern times," he said. "We may have oversold the idea that a healthy lifestyle can completely eliminate your risk."

Thompson said there could be unknown factors that contributed to the mummies' narrowed arteries. He said the Ancestral Puebloans who lived in underground caves in modern-day Colorado and Utah, used fire for heat and cooking, producing a lot of smoke.

"They were breathing in a lot of smoke and that could have had the same effect as cigarettes," he said.

Previous studies have found evidence of heart disease in Egyptian mummies, but the Lancet paper is the largest survey so far and the first to include mummies elsewhere in the world.

Dr. Frank Ruehli of the University of Zurich, who runs the Swiss Mummy Project, said it was clear atherosclerosis was notably present in antiquity and agreed there might be a genetic predisposition to the disease.

"Humans seem to have a particular vulnerability (to heart disease) and it will be interesting to see what genes are involved," he said. Ruehli was not connected to the study. "This is a piece in the puzzle that may tell us something important about the evolution of disease."

Other experts warned against reading too much into the mummy data.

Dr. Mike Knapton, associate medical director at the British Heart Foundation said calcified arteries could also be caused by other ailments including endocrine disorders and that it was impossible tell from the CT scans if the types of calcium deposits in the mummies were the kind that would have sparked a heart attack or stroke.

"It's a fascinating study but I'm not sure we can say atherosclerosis is an inevitable part of aging," he said, citing the numerous studies that have showed strong links between lifestyle factors and heart disease.

Researcher Thompson advised people to live as healthy a lifestyle as possible, noting that the risk of heart disease could be reduced with good eating habits, not smoking and exercising. "We don't have to end up like the mummies," he said.

LINKSaw this online today and thought it was very interesting. Cereal grains formed the backbone of the Ancient Egyptian diet. Hmmm I wonder if there is a connection there....

I think Mark Sisson mentions this specifically in his Primal Blueprint book. In fact it's the crux of his "set point." Basically he contends that the ancient Egyptians were the first people that were smaller and weaker than their ancestors and grain is the reason.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

For the next two months I will be housing a professional women's soccer team. I will likely be preparing all their meals and will probably have extended credit at whole foods to purchase the groceries.I have really been doing the best I can doing paleo, except that I cannot afford grass fed meats or some of the organic veggies and especially dairy/cheese. If I get the WF account, that issue will be resolved.However, while I am a big fan of paleo and the results for me and the current residents, I am not comfortable putting it forth as a dietary plan for professional athletes. I can find books and literature to back me up, but I need a doc or nutritionist to help me devise a meal plan that would have the proper bona fides. I am interested in the board's thoughts on paleo for professional athletes, especially endurance sports like soccer. I am even more interested in finding a nutritionist or doc who we could use to help me devise the meals/menus. If anyone knows a professional that would be interested in such, I would appreciate a lead or intro.

Pretty sure the Mark's Daily Apple Forums have a Paleo for athletes thread. Generally, from what I've seen, most of the tweaks involve increasing "safe" carbs. So you'd have plenty of potatoes and rice. But I'd bet you'd find some nutrionists there. I know some paleo-type nutritionists/doctors have phone/email based consulting services. I think Chris Kresser is one.

 

[culdeus]

Review of PaleoFantasy.

I haven't read it. Might skim some of it to see where she is going with it.

 

[Slapdash]

For the next two months I will be housing a professional women's soccer team. I will likely be preparing all their meals and will probably have extended credit at whole foods to purchase the groceries.I have really been doing the best I can doing paleo, except that I cannot afford grass fed meats or some of the organic veggies and especially dairy/cheese. If I get the WF account, that issue will be resolved.However, while I am a big fan of paleo and the results for me and the current residents, I am not comfortable putting it forth as a dietary plan for professional athletes. I can find books and literature to back me up, but I need a doc or nutritionist to help me devise a meal plan that would have the proper bona fides. I am interested in the board's thoughts on paleo for professional athletes, especially endurance sports like soccer. I am even more interested in finding a nutritionist or doc who we could use to help me devise the meals/menus. If anyone knows a professional that would be interested in such, I would appreciate a lead or intro.

Prepare more meals with things like rice, potatoes, corn, and quinoa than you otherwise would. Probably keep some baguettes around as needed.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

Review of PaleoFantasy.

I haven't read it. Might skim some of it to see where she is going with it.

I read the Salon article. It appears that she is coming from the evolutionary biology background. I think it's unfortunate that her disagreement was with Cordain.It seems to me that her question, "why wouldn't evolution have selected against these things" is pretty easily answered. Your gluten sensitivity isn't going to make you less likely to mate. We can be maladapted to our environment, but that will only show through evolution to the respect it makes us less fit to propogate the species.

 

[culdeus]

I wish the conversation would switch from "we arent evolved to eat X" to "X conclusively causes Y" with supporting evidence. The former does make the whole thing seem a little crackpot for lots of people and can lead to messenger shooting, dog whistles, etc.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

I think Mark Sisson mentions this specifically in his Primal Blueprint book. In fact it's the crux of his "set point." Basically he contends that the ancient Egyptians were the first people that were smaller and weaker than their ancestors and grain is the reason.

Wikipedia says that Ancient Egypt dates back a little more than 5,000 years. Farming started more like 10,000 years ago (different times in different parts of the world), which is when people would have first gotten smaller and weaker than their ancestors.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

I wish the conversation would switch from "we arent evolved to eat X" to "X conclusively causes Y" with supporting evidence.

That just seems impossible, though. There are so many confounding variables, that it's seems hard to argue that food x, in isolation, causes y.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Review of PaleoFantasy.

I haven't read it. Might skim some of it to see where she is going with it.

I read the Salon article. It appears that she is coming from the evolutionary biology background. I think it's unfortunate that her disagreement was with Cordain.It seems to me that her question, "why wouldn't evolution have selected against these things" is pretty easily answered. Your gluten sensitivity isn't going to make you less likely to mate. We can be maladapted to our environment, but that will only show through evolution to the respect it makes us less fit to propogate the species.

Gluten sensitivity will definitely affect reproductive rates. Robust, healthy dudes score with a lot more women, more often, than sickly dudes. (And with better looking women, which increases their number of grandchildren per child.)The answer to Zuk's question is that evolution has selected against gluten and dairy sensitivities. The problem is that her comeback to Cordain — that 10,000 years is plenty of time to complete the task — is irrelevant where people have had far less than 10,000 years.

People of Middle Eastern descent generally do pretty well with grains. People of Northern European descent generally do great with dairy. But not everybody's ancestors have been eating grains and dairy for 10,000 years. In some cases, like with some Native Americans, it may have been only a hundred years or so.

Also, nobody has been eating modern semi-dwarf wheat for more than about 75 years.

I think both Cordain and Zuk are partially right. Cordain is right that humans as a group have not had sufficient time to completely adapt to neolithic foods. Zuk is right that many people have largely adapted to many neolithic foods. I don't think a one-size-fits-all statement like "rye is good" or "rye is bad" can be accurate: it's good for some people and problematic for others.

I also think that Cordain's logic applies much more forcefully to industrial foods than to neolithic foods. Plenty of people are very well adapted to milk, corn, beans, rice, etc., in their whole-food forms. It's Ding Dongs and Doritos that are much more problematic — not because they are derived from neolithic ingredients, but because they are derived from overly refined ingredients with many nutrients removed, but artificial tastiness added, so that taste is no longer a reliable indicator of nutrition.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Some responses to some of Zuk's criticisms by Paul Jaminet here and Miki Ben-Dor here.

 

[moleculo]

I wish the conversation would switch from "we arent evolved to eat X" to "X conclusively causes Y" with supporting evidence. The former does make the whole thing seem a little crackpot for lots of people and can lead to messenger shooting, dog whistles, etc.

when I describe it, I talk about the caveman bit as the schtick, but there is science to the rest of it - gut irritants, low-glycemic index, etc.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

For the next two months I will be housing a professional women's soccer team. I will likely be preparing all their meals and will probably have extended credit at whole foods to purchase the groceries.I have really been doing the best I can doing paleo, except that I cannot afford grass fed meats or some of the organic veggies and especially dairy/cheese. If I get the WF account, that issue will be resolved.However, while I am a big fan of paleo and the results for me and the current residents, I am not comfortable putting it forth as a dietary plan for professional athletes. I can find books and literature to back me up, but I need a doc or nutritionist to help me devise a meal plan that would have the proper bona fides. I am interested in the board's thoughts on paleo for professional athletes, especially endurance sports like soccer. I am even more interested in finding a nutritionist or doc who we could use to help me devise the meals/menus. If anyone knows a professional that would be interested in such, I would appreciate a lead or intro.

Pro athletes is a big umbrella. Nutritional requirements will vary greatly by sport, For soccer players you are probably going to have to include more carbohydrates than are typical with a paleo diet.

 

[culdeus]

Some responses to some of Zuk's criticisms by Paul Jaminet here and Miki Ben-Dor here.

Didn't really care for either of those. Not sure they did anything but reiterate talking points.