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Paris magazine office attacked - Charlie Hebdo (1 Viewer)

“On your birthday, I will say that I have loved the rebel in you, that you’ve always been a source of inspiration to me, and that I do not like the halos of divinity around you. I shall not pray for you.”
1. He wasn't divine.

2. He doesn't need anyone to pray for him.

Can someone explain the issue here?
Well take a listen to the sheik above.

I fear that a swift punishment will be sent upon us from the complacency we're seeing in regards to the rights of god and his prophet. And as Al-Arabi said when he was told, "we should argue with atheists through intellectual debates," he replied, "That's a cold reaction, that should be warmed up with the heat of a sword."
He then demand petitions should be sent to all levels of government, again:

Before God sends his punishment down on us. And that will guarantee you security. If you perform your duty be reassured that God will spare and protect you.
And it's known that cursing God and Mohammed is apostasy punishable by death...
He says at least three times that the charge is cursing Mohammed and God, which is therefore apostasy. He also says that his words of "repentance" are nothing but "cold words" and repentance is useless in islamic law.

And again the point seems to be that if other muslims do not act they are themselves morally culpable and possibly subject to God's judgement.

This is a rich, powerful, older man and he appears genuinely worried about his own eternal fate, he is under so much pressure that he breaks down crying.

My guess is that he has never seen a computer in person but he has been told that this blogger called Mohammed a "rebel", accused him of having a halo of divinity around him and instructed others not to pray for him. He also calls him an "equal" and pretends to carry on an imaginary conversation with him in which he views him as a friend, which I suppose is disrespectful on two fronts.

 
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JZilla said:
Very interested to see what the Saudis do here. They're caught in a pretty significant catch-22. If history tells us anything, it's that they'll accommodate religion over the rest of the world, but this one feels different, and they have wiggle room to soften the sentence a little.. try to save some face. It's safe to say if not for the Hebdo attacks this poor dummy Kashgari would be dead in a couple of weeks, and none of us would have ever heard of him. I figure with the world watching they'll keep him alive but still ultimately ruin his life.

This is the nerve center of Islam, where the rules are set, the tone established. If you still maintain that mainstream Islam is peaceful and tolerant, you'd be well served to wake up anytime now.
Saudi is the most conservative Muslim country on the planet, hardly mainstream Islam.

The issue is culture, not religion. Granted I do believe Islam encourages the continuation of backwards culture, but it's not the primary cause of their behavior.
I don't think it helps that they hold Medina and Mecca, those are definitely nerve centers, especially Mecca. It would be nice if the Mufti of Saudi Arabia was not an Al-ash-Sheikh, ie a descendent of Muhammed al-Wahhab himself, and it would be nice if he was a moderate who was independent who issued fatwahs calling for peace and tolerance of other faiths. To his credit old King Faisal actually eliminated the position but now it is back. I think if we used the word ideology instead of religion this would be an example of how nationalism can be a useful tool for a ruling regime, here that nationalism takes the form of religion. That's one neutral way of looking at it.

 
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Fox News anchors spent Saturday apologizing for the network's inaccuracies when reporting on so-called "no-go zones" in the aftermath of terrorist attacks in Paris.

Jeanine Pirro said, "We could find no credible source that indicates Birmingham is a so-called 'no-go zone.'"

Finally, Julie Banderas said, "To be clear, there is no formal designation of these zones in either country. There are certainly areas of high crime in Europe as there are in the United States and other countries."

The segment that attracted the most attention was one in which Steve Emerson, the founder of the Investigative Project on Terrorism, talked to Jeanine Pirro."In Britain, it's not just no-go zones. There are actual cities like Birmingham that are totally Muslim, where non Muslims just don't go in," Emerson said.

A little more than 20 percent of Birmingham, the second-biggest city in England, identified as Muslim in 2011, according to the UK census. (Video via YouTube / Moss Travel TV)

The no-go zones were ridiculed online, but also by prominent figures, like British Prime Minister David Cameron.

"I thought it must be April Fools' Day. This guy is clearly a complete idiot," Cameron told ITV.

But that was hardly the only time throughout the week the no-go zones were brought up on the network.

Anchors called on a retired naval captain, as well as multiple correspondents in France to talk about the no-go zones and Europe's Muslim population, with Fox and Friends' Brian Kilmeade asserting, "Nobody gets jobs. They don't want to be French. They just want to live in Europe and take over the country."

As late as Wednesday, Fox News aired a map of Paris with the supposed no-go zones highlighted, a map which quickly became the target of French satire.

Canal+'s Le Petit Journal sent correspondents to each of the areas highlighted on the Fox News map and asked residents if their neighborhoods resembled Iraq or Afghanistan, as Fox's pundits suggested. (Video via Canal+)

An interviewer asks, "How would you characterize this neighborhood?"

The interviewee responds, "It's an inexpensive neighborhood. Iit's nice. That's all really. I do my shopping here."

What's not entirely clear is why Fox waited a week to apologize.

Emerson apologized earlier in the week, and a petition on Change.org, as well as Le Petit Journal's own letter-writing campaign have been active for days.

For the record, the network did not apologize for claiming the zones exist, only admitting that Birmingham, and parts of Paris shouldn't have been labeled under "no-go," and that these zones are not formally recognized.
Paris Mayor just says she's gonna sue FAUX.

Shut it down IMO. At the very least get rid of that stooge Greg Gutfeld.

 
That obviously was a parody by The Onion. Can't be real. Wait, what...?
This is terrible. We should have never apologized to that fair weather "ally." When most of the civilized world was trying to boycott Saddam's oil they were going behind everybody's back and getting it from him anyways. Lest we forget, WMD, or not, Saddam was funding terrorism. So if they catch some of the backsplash withing their own borders, then #### 'em. Obama was correct in the first place not to send anybody higher than a fund-raiser/ambassador to that back-water/back-stabbing dirge to stand up for their juvenile cartoons.

 
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That obviously was a parody by The Onion. Can't be real. Wait, what...?
....Lest we forget, WMD, or not, Saddam was funding terrorism....
Did he now...

 
That obviously was a parody by The Onion. Can't be real. Wait, what...?
This is terrible. We should have never apologized to that fair weather "ally." When most of the civilized world was trying to boycott Saddam's oil they were going behind everybody's back and getting it from him anyways. Lest we forget, WMD, or not, Saddam was funding terrorism. So if they catch some of the backsplash withing their own borders, then #### 'em. Obama was correct in the first place not to send anybody higher than a fund-raiser/ambassador to that back-water/back-stabbing dirge to stand up for their juvenile cartoons.
Bet you still call them Freedom Fries.

 
That obviously was a parody by The Onion. Can't be real. Wait, what...?
This is terrible. We should have never apologized to that fair weather "ally." When most of the civilized world was trying to boycott Saddam's oil they were going behind everybody's back and getting it from him anyways. Lest we forget, WMD, or not, Saddam was funding terrorism. So if they catch some of the backsplash withing their own borders, then #### 'em. Obama was correct in the first place not to send anybody higher than a fund-raiser/ambassador to that back-water/back-stabbing dirge to stand up for their juvenile cartoons.
:lmao:

 
To get back on track, I just thought I would repost this reply (only) from DD in the Yemen thread:

...

Well yeah, in Egypt and Tunisia but that ended badly. Don't get wrapped around "democracy" it simply does not work in the Arab world. It does work in the Muslim world, Indonesia is the model of what is possible. Pakistan has had some good times also, and I believe their Islamists are so far to the fringe in part because of democracy.


The Turk countries have had some success, Turkey and Kazakhstan in particular. Mixed results elsewhere, Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan are authoritarian to the extreme, while Azerbaijan is definitely a success stories. I think literacy rates play a role in the Turk countries though, but I won't get into that.

What the Arab countries need is stability without secret police states and totalitarianism. Qatar, UAE, Oman and Kuwait are good examples but they also have small populations and they have a good wealth sharing plan in those places. Saudi is a mess, even 20 years ago when I first went there it felt artificial. Some day that place will revolt, and it will be the ugliest thing ever.
Basically the issue was why militants and rebels and revolutions for some time have almost never been secular or democratic. DD largely replied about the "muslim world." I am going to amend simply to point out that the Turk nations that were largely under USSR rule were force fed secularism and state authority for decades at the point of a gun, they've hardly arrived at that themselves.

It's a thin line, ethnicity, religion, ideology. I think that in Arabia and the non-Turk mideast islam has essentially been the revolutionary ideology, not marxism or communism or any of its various brands. I don't know if this perfectly ties in, because we see Nigeria exploding (Baga), Chechnya has been burning for a while, and we see Afghanistan (arguably maybe that's Pashtun and Waziri, so maybe it does fit...), but it's ballpark and it's one way of looking at it perhaps.

The points about Iraq above may actually tie in: IMO the Bush administration thought, believed, behind closed doors, that they were creating a democratic revolution in these troubled regions, starting with Afghanistan, then Iraq, and maybe the Arab Spring was what they were shooting for all along. That was the cure for AQ, which was essentially the point of a revolutionary spear against corrupt, oppressive, decrepit regimes.

I think the answer is in, even if so, we can't "force" democracy on people. The first leader - the Washington, the Mandela, the Ataturk - is extremely important in what happens post-revolution. In Afghanistan they got Karzai, in Iraq they got Maliki, these were essentially disasters, especially the latter.

So, I guess what I'm trying to say - do we continue to push for democracy in the mideast and Arabia or do we simply hope for and try to recreate or maintain the old strong man theory, where we back the Husseins, the Sauds, the Assads, etc.?

 
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msommer said:
FlapJacks said:
That obviously was a parody by The Onion. Can't be real. Wait, what...?
....Lest we forget, WMD, or not, Saddam was funding terrorism....
Did he now...
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=129914

 
msommer said:
FlapJacks said:
That obviously was a parody by The Onion. Can't be real. Wait, what...?
....Lest we forget, WMD, or not, Saddam was funding terrorism....
Did he now...
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=129914
Saddam also funded PKK and MEK, both were listed as terrorist groups by the US. He also funded Abu Nidal, who lived and died in Iraq.

 
PKK- to do the dishes

PKK- to clean up my room

PKK- to do the laundry

PKK- and in the bathroom

PKK- that's all I really want is PKK

Two at a time - I want PKK

With new wave hairdos - I want PKK

I ought to whip out my - PKK, PKK, PKK, PKK, PKK

 
That obviously was a parody by The Onion. Can't be real. Wait, what...?
....Lest we forget, WMD, or not, Saddam was funding terrorism....
Did he now...
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=129914
Saddam also funded PKK and MEK, both were listed as terrorist groups by the US. He also funded Abu Nidal, who lived and died in Iraq.
The PKK are freedom fighters fighting for Kurdish independence.

Saddam did use the MEK for attacks in his war against Iran.

Iraq denied any knowledge that Nidal was living there. The Independent claimed to have evidence that Nidal was a U.S. spy.

 
1 person dead and 3 police injured. :( The 2 men are still armed and on the loose. Their car was found by a subway system so who knows where they may be.

 
Three police officers wounded.

Target appears to be a Swedish satirical cartoonist that has depicted Mohammed as a dog.

My sister lives about 200m from where it happened

 
The police are looking for two men, one man of Arabic looks, lighter skinned than normal.

Blurry pic released from when he ditched the getaway car

 
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Looks like there was a second attack at a Synagogue in Copebhagen. 1 dead according to sources on Twitter.
Correct. No dead though. Three injured, one of which shot in the head.

Shooter left on foot. Helicopters deployed

Description of clothes doesn't match the person they are looking for in the other incident.

ETA: Two of the wounded were police officers

 
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Several streets blocked off in Copenhagen as search continues.

Heavily armed police in the area in large numbers.

Rumours of a military vehicle seen close by. The military refuse to comment, refering to the police

 
Police briefing : Assailant the same in the two incidents. The shooter was challenged by the police, opened fire and was shot and killed by the police.

ETA: The investigation continues

 
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