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Patriots being investigated after Colts game (3 Viewers)

Percent of NFL teams actively trying to steal play sheets?

  • 0%

    Votes: 90 33.0%
  • 25%

    Votes: 91 33.3%
  • 50%

    Votes: 19 7.0%
  • 75%

    Votes: 16 5.9%
  • 100%

    Votes: 57 20.9%

  • Total voters
    273
Neil deGrasse Tyson just posted a retraction on the bs he posted earlier saying the balls would have had to be filled with 125 degree air to explain a 15% reduction in air pressure... Turns out he was only off by 35 degrees!

Bill Nye is now on the clock...https://m.facebook.com/notes/neil-degrasse-tyson/deflategate/10153074004496613
So...you take that retraction as a positive thing?
Yes. He draws a curious, seemingly biased conclusion at the end, but it is easily within the realm of possibility that the internal temperature of the footballs could have been 15 degrees above room temperature through the manipulation process BB talked about. At 125 degrees, as NGT originally mistakenly said, it is hard to believe.It's also worth noting he didn't release the detailed calculations he used, and he is using the very high end of the possible psi reduction of 15% (which I believe corresponds to the Mort 2 psi drop and not the 1 that was reported on Saturday by Florio. But his revision is much closer to what everyone in the scientific community has been saying right along.

 
I see we have some truthers who are late to the party. They really missed the window for ultimate Pats bashing early on. The facts are:

The NFL came out early on with vague, leaked information that has yet to be confirmed.

The public/media frenzy ensued and the NFL leaks were made into some type of damning evidence of the Pats by some.

The Pats coach and qb both denied any wrong doing.

More leaks came from the NFL suggesting guilt. Again nothing confirmed.

Kraft comes out and calls bs on the league and says don't forget the apology when we are exonerated.

Many media members do a 180 from their initial condemnation, the NFL leaks have dried up and leaks continue to trickle out favoring the Pats story.

And here Pats haters continue to spout theories about the original evidence being fact and that the Pats are most likely guilty while most level headed people are waiting for the facts to be made public before forming any opinion of guilt/innocence.

Did I miss anything?
yeah, you forgot the part about us posting in a 108 page thread about a football that was maybe a ####### psi light

 
I like the one where people say that the presumption of innocence is just something for the courtroom, and forget that the reason it's a law is because it's a good way to run a railroad.

 
Breaking - Mike Kensel was on the Colts sideline and handled the ball that was intercepted.
What are the odds somebody on that Colts sideline somewhere in this process stuck a gauge in that football? Would explain why that ball was 2psi under and the others close to 1.
You know what? I normally am not one to believe in conspiracy theories, but the way this story is going I can't rule it out completely. I think it's unlikely though.But it does pretty much sew up that this was indeed a sting operation. And it was led by an ex Jets front office person who was scorned by Belichik. And this guy handled the key piece of evidence - the intercepted football - a ball that has been reported to be 1 psi less than the other 11 balls. At worst I raises questions of tampering. At best it is a conflict of interest and poor handling of an investigation.
Well, this theory has the virtue of not having any actual ill will, the whole thing amounts to a misunderstanding.

I think sting implies the NFL as a whole was in on it (as oppsed to Kensel out on his own hook)- that seems unlikely as they obviously had no ducks in a row with the Refs etc... plus whats the point from the Colt point of view of waiting until half time.

Obviously the Colts had the ball deflation on their brains, so when they get ahold of their first ball, they jump all over it, of course it feels light to them (and it would be a little due to the temperature). And Kensel is there, likely knows they have a beef about the balls, well grab the gauge out of the bag and lets look.

 
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Neil deGrasse Tyson just posted a retraction on the bs he posted earlier saying the balls would have had to be filled with 125 degree air to explain a 15% reduction in air pressure... Turns out he was only off by 35 degrees!

Bill Nye is now on the clock...https://m.facebook.com/notes/neil-degrasse-tyson/deflategate/10153074004496613
So...you take that retraction as a positive thing?
Yes. He draws a curious, seemingly biased conclusion at the end, but it is easily within the realm of possibility that the internal temperature of the footballs could have been 15 degrees above room temperature through the manipulation process BB talked about. At 125 degrees, as NGT originally mistakenly said, it is hard to believe.It's also worth noting he didn't release the detailed calculations he used, and he is using the very high end of the possible psi reduction of 15% (which I believe corresponds to the Mort 2 psi drop and not the 1 that was reported on Saturday by Florio. But his revision is much closer to what everyone in the scientific community has been saying right along.
I really am not interested in what Tyson does, if he isn't doing experiments. Is he? Or is he just using math to try and explain things? I imagine that just using math won't help, unless you know all the variables....which is why you do experiments.

 
This has absolutely ruined the Super Bowl for me.
:lmao: :lmao:

btw, welcome to page 108, for anybody new to the thread

I wouldn't expect anybody to read through 107 pages of this stuff, so if you want to catch up just track down a movie called idiocracy and watch that
I don't need to read the thread. I can't escape Deflategate!
in my imagination the ghosts of lombardi, butkus, and trent richardson's career are looking down on from on high at our superbowl coverage in 2015

 
Neil deGrasse Tyson just posted a retraction on the bs he posted earlier saying the balls would have had to be filled with 125 degree air to explain a 15% reduction in air pressure... Turns out he was only off by 35 degrees!

Bill Nye is now on the clock...https://m.facebook.com/notes/neil-degrasse-tyson/deflategate/10153074004496613
So...you take that retraction as a positive thing?
Yep, because it is what we have been saying all along. Basically 1psi is equivalent to the weather and another psi is due to the process. Tyson's 90 degrees is nearly exactly what I have been saying the rubbing process must have increased the internal temp to. Now it is just up to the league to disprove that the patriots football prep process could not have increased the internal temp of the ball to 90 degrees. Or if as florio has speculated, there was only a one psi diff then that is all attributable to the outside temp diff.Sorry if I am following this closer than Tyson but this has been what I have been saying for days and why I immediately called Tyson out because his gauge pressure error has been a very common one over the past few days

 
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We ought to mention there is one variable that we havent accounted for, and I think would be tough to figure- the insulation of the leather ball.

All the ideal gas law tells us is that the ultimate pressure will be, but there's no time variable. Its still an open question how quickly the air inside the ball would drop to match the outside air temperature, which is why this is not going to give an exact answer (ie- it HAS to be 1.1PSI or somebody is cheating the laws of physics!).

Thats why the various experiments are a good thing. You can get real world data on what is happening to the pressure of a ball given a certain temperature chance, and how long it takes.
Exactly right -- we need more scientific experiments to test more variables (how long equilibrium takes, simulate rain conditions more accurately, etc.) to determine a realistic range of PSI change due to the game conditions.

Even if we run dozens of experiments and get a precise range of realistic PSI loss, the problem is that we have no idea how rigorously the refs checked/recorded PSI with a gauge (assuming that they actually did).

Look at this video below, that shows the refs checking football PSI (on camera, so you'd assume they'd be more careful than normal).

- at about 18 seconds into video, a ref says something like: "12.5. Eh, that's close enough."

- at about 35 seconds into the video, a ref is letting air out of the ball for at least 1-2 full seconds, and says "whoa!" :o

http://mmqb.si.com/2015/01/22/deflategate-video-how-nfl-officials-check-game-ball-pressure/

How do we simulate things like the fumbling refs letting out lots of air each time they tested PSI? I'm assuming that the refs double-checked or triple-checked each Patriots ball at half-time. How much air would that release?

Anyone hoping for precision PSI measurements from the refs is going to be disappointed. So no matter how precise the experiments are, you will be comparing them to imprecise ref PSI measurements.

As long as the potential range for PSI loss due to game conditions is close enough to actual PSI loss measured by the refs, that should disprove that the Patriots deflated any balls (at least for rational people).

 
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Why'd the guy from Wilson say the weather couldn't have done it?
Because he is a moron who works at their traveling booth to show how the balls are made. Do you think that is where they send their scientists....do you think Wilson has scientists?
Why is he a moron? Wouldn't someone who sells their product know best how they react in various situations?
Why exactly would a marketing guy know what happens to the PSI of a football in cold weather?
 
Why'd the guy from Wilson say the weather couldn't have done it?
Because he is a moron who works at their traveling booth to show how the balls are made. Do you think that is where they send their scientists....do you think Wilson has scientists?
Why is he a moron? Wouldn't someone who sells their product know best how they react in various situations?
Why exactly would a marketing guy know what happens to the PSI of a football in cold weather?
Why would he know any less than some of the message board hacks on here that "figured it out"?

 
Lol listening to BB's Q&A from today.

Q1: Barstoolsports, we went out to dinner in Nantucket, why don't you remember me?
A1: You got it.
Q2: Second part of this question, moving forward, if you need anybody murdered--especially felger, maz, or goodell--im your guy.

 
Why'd the guy from Wilson say the weather couldn't have done it?
Because he is a moron who works at their traveling booth to show how the balls are made. Do you think that is where they send their scientists....do you think Wilson has scientists?
Why is he a moron? Wouldn't someone who sells their product know best how they react in various situations?
Why exactly would a marketing guy know what happens to the PSI of a football in cold weather?
Why would he know any less than some of the message board hacks on here that "figured it out"?
Because hacks here read up about the science while this guy just made #### up on the spot?
 
Why'd the guy from Wilson say the weather couldn't have done it?
Because he is a moron who works at their traveling booth to show how the balls are made. Do you think that is where they send their scientists....do you think Wilson has scientists?
Why is he a moron? Wouldn't someone who sells their product know best how they react in various situations?
Why exactly would a marketing guy know what happens to the PSI of a football in cold weather?
Why would he know any less than some of the message board hacks on here that "figured it out"?
Because hacks here read up about the science while this guy just made #### up on the spot?
Link about him making it up on spot?

He has a lot more reason to understand the product than anyone here that didn't care until a week ago.

 
Why'd the guy from Wilson say the weather couldn't have done it?
Because he is a moron who works at their traveling booth to show how the balls are made. Do you think that is where they send their scientists....do you think Wilson has scientists?
Why is he a moron? Wouldn't someone who sells their product know best how they react in various situations?
Why exactly would a marketing guy know what happens to the PSI of a football in cold weather?
Why would he know any less than some of the message board hacks on here that "figured it out"?
Because hacks here read up about the science while this guy just made #### up on the spot?
Link about him making it up on spot?He has a lot more reason to understand the product than anyone here that didn't care until a week ago.
He has a lot more reason to tout his product as being flawless, cause you know, he's a marketing guy. Are people really still not believing that the pressure of things change as temperature increases or decreases?

I thought we have moved beyond this

 
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As much of a crap show of a story it would be there is no chance Mike Kensil did anything nefarious here. Maybe it is evidence of a "sting" operation but that is it. Can't believe their was some conspiracy hatched by Kensil against the Patriots. Just not believable. But almost rooting for it just because it would make one helluva story for the NFL.

 
Why'd the guy from Wilson say the weather couldn't have done it?
Because he is a moron who works at their traveling booth to show how the balls are made. Do you think that is where they send their scientists....do you think Wilson has scientists?
Why is he a moron? Wouldn't someone who sells their product know best how they react in various situations?
Why exactly would a marketing guy know what happens to the PSI of a football in cold weather?
Why would he know any less than some of the message board hacks on here that "figured it out"?
Because hacks here read up about the science while this guy just made #### up on the spot?
Link about him making it up on spot?He has a lot more reason to understand the product than anyone here that didn't care until a week ago.
He has a lot more reason to tout his product as being flawless, cause you know, he's a marketing guy. Are people really still not believing that the pressure of things change as temperature increases or decreases?

I thought we have moved beyond this
I think the NFL didn't even realize that psi changes due to weather. I'd wager they never realized that. Which is kind of embarrassing.

 
I have a hard time believing Rich from the Toucher & Rich show breaks open this story through his sources. He is a professional DJ who only started doing sports when WBCN switched over to sports talk radio. Investigative sports journalism would be a first for him and it would seem he would be more likely to break a story on Shadoe Stevens tossing Casey Casem's salad back in the 80s giving his background.

 
A lot of armchair scientist in here all of the sudden....will be interesting to see how these theories hold up.
I'm not sure people claiming tires deflate in winter qualify as 'scientists', but I guess it's all in your perspective
If that's all it takes I'm just thankful that the Packers can finish home games in December without the ball turning to a prune in single digits.

 
A lot of armchair scientist in here all of the sudden....will be interesting to see how these theories hold up.
I'm not sure people claiming tires deflate in winter qualify as 'scientists', but I guess it's all in your perspective
If that's all it takes I'm just thankful that the Packers can finish home games in December without the ball turning to a prune in single digits.
Or just maybe 2psi, or 4 or 6, isnt nearly as much as you suppose.

 
Why'd the guy from Wilson say the weather couldn't have done it?
Because he is a moron who works at their traveling booth to show how the balls are made. Do you think that is where they send their scientists....do you think Wilson has scientists?
Why is he a moron? Wouldn't someone who sells their product know best how they react in various situations?
Why exactly would a marketing guy know what happens to the PSI of a football in cold weather?
Why would he know any less than some of the message board hacks on here that "figured it out"?
Because hacks here read up about the science while this guy just made #### up on the spot?
Link about him making it up on spot?He has a lot more reason to understand the product than anyone here that didn't care until a week ago.
He has a lot more reason to tout his product as being flawless, cause you know, he's a marketing guy. Are people really still not believing that the pressure of things change as temperature increases or decreases?

I thought we have moved beyond this
I'm assuming the inflation rule dates back awhile? Not sure. If weather really caused this significant of a variance this would either occur all the time or the league would have a wider range allowed.

Also Aaron Rodgers would be playing home games with half deflated balls which would really upset him.

 
A lot of armchair scientist in here all of the sudden....will be interesting to see how these theories hold up.
I'm not sure people claiming tires deflate in winter qualify as 'scientists', but I guess it's all in your perspective
If that's all it takes I'm just thankful that the Packers can finish home games in December without the ball turning to a prune in single digits.
maybe that's why rodgers inflates his balls past the legal limit..........

 
A lot of armchair scientist in here all of the sudden....will be interesting to see how these theories hold up.
I'm not sure people claiming tires deflate in winter qualify as 'scientists', but I guess it's all in your perspective
If that's all it takes I'm just thankful that the Packers can finish home games in December without the ball turning to a prune in single digits.
Or just maybe 2psi, or 4 or 6, isnt nearly as much as you suppose.
And the fact that Rogers pumps his up to 14+ PSI
 
A lot of armchair scientist in here all of the sudden....will be interesting to see how these theories hold up.
I'm not sure people claiming tires deflate in winter qualify as 'scientists', but I guess it's all in your perspective
If that's all it takes I'm just thankful that the Packers can finish home games in December without the ball turning to a prune in single digits.
Or just maybe 2psi, or 4 or 6, isnt nearly as much as you suppose.
6 isn't much? Isn't 12.5 the minimum? Almost half flat or am I understanding this wrong?

 
A lot of armchair scientist in here all of the sudden....will be interesting to see how these theories hold up.
I'm not sure people claiming tires deflate in winter qualify as 'scientists', but I guess it's all in your perspective
If that's all it takes I'm just thankful that the Packers can finish home games in December without the ball turning to a prune in single digits.
Or just maybe 2psi, or 4 or 6, isnt nearly as much as you suppose.
6 isn't much? Isn't 12.5 the minimum? Almost half flat or am I understanding this wrong?
no, you understand it right --- all those games they play in -70 degree weather would result in a significantly deflated ball

 
A lot of armchair scientist in here all of the sudden....will be interesting to see how these theories hold up.
I'm not sure people claiming tires deflate in winter qualify as 'scientists', but I guess it's all in your perspective
If that's all it takes I'm just thankful that the Packers can finish home games in December without the ball turning to a prune in single digits.
maybe that's why rodgers inflates his balls past the legal limit..........
Weird he has never been busted for that or based on these theories it would be significantly under inflated by halftime and hadn't gotten busted for that either.

 
A lot of armchair scientist in here all of the sudden....will be interesting to see how these theories hold up.
I'm not sure people claiming tires deflate in winter qualify as 'scientists', but I guess it's all in your perspective
If that's all it takes I'm just thankful that the Packers can finish home games in December without the ball turning to a prune in single digits.
Or just maybe 2psi, or 4 or 6, isnt nearly as much as you suppose.
6 isn't much? Isn't 12.5 the minimum? Almost half flat or am I understanding this wrong?
I didnt say it wasnt much. However judging by how folks are interpreting 2psi, they likely think 6 is a deflated bagpipe.

 
A lot of armchair scientist in here all of the sudden....will be interesting to see how these theories hold up.
I'm not sure people claiming tires deflate in winter qualify as 'scientists', but I guess it's all in your perspective
If that's all it takes I'm just thankful that the Packers can finish home games in December without the ball turning to a prune in single digits.
Or just maybe 2psi, or 4 or 6, isnt nearly as much as you suppose.
6 isn't much? Isn't 12.5 the minimum? Almost half flat or am I understanding this wrong?
no, you understand it right --- all those games they play in -70 degree weather would result in a significantly deflated ball
According to this, the coldest game in Green Bay was -13 degrees F.

http://host.madison.com/sports/football/professional/slideshow-the-coldest-games-in-green-bay-packers-history/collection_f2674125-114d-59dc-bc9b-0f4555999620.html

I don't think windchill counts for the Ideal Gas Law. Although I suspect windy conditions will cool down the football faster, and make it reach equilibrium faster.

 
A lot of armchair scientist in here all of the sudden....will be interesting to see how these theories hold up.
I'm not sure people claiming tires deflate in winter qualify as 'scientists', but I guess it's all in your perspective
If that's all it takes I'm just thankful that the Packers can finish home games in December without the ball turning to a prune in single digits.
Or just maybe 2psi, or 4 or 6, isnt nearly as much as you suppose.
6 isn't much? Isn't 12.5 the minimum? Almost half flat or am I understanding this wrong?
no, you understand it right --- all those games they play in -70 degree weather would result in a significantly deflated ball
The difference is significantly noticeable at 2 psi, would a game near 0 degrees be more than that?

 
A lot of armchair scientist in here all of the sudden....will be interesting to see how these theories hold up.
I'm not sure people claiming tires deflate in winter qualify as 'scientists', but I guess it's all in your perspective
If that's all it takes I'm just thankful that the Packers can finish home games in December without the ball turning to a prune in single digits.
Or just maybe 2psi, or 4 or 6, isnt nearly as much as you suppose.
6 isn't much? Isn't 12.5 the minimum? Almost half flat or am I understanding this wrong?
no, you understand it right --- all those games they play in -70 degree weather would result in a significantly deflated ball
The difference is significantly noticeable at 2 psi, would a game near 0 degrees be more than that?
Yes, thanks for proving my point. Ipso facto, its not significantly noticeable.

 
Probably already said but ...

If this were a "sting" operation and the NFL let a full half of AFC championship game be played knowing the NEP had the advantage of underinflated footballs...

Wow.

Like a cop following a drunk driver for miles and miles until the drunk crashes into a family in a minivan. "Ahaa.... gotcha now!"

 
A lot of armchair scientist in here all of the sudden....will be interesting to see how these theories hold up.
I'm not sure people claiming tires deflate in winter qualify as 'scientists', but I guess it's all in your perspective
If that's all it takes I'm just thankful that the Packers can finish home games in December without the ball turning to a prune in single digits.
Or just maybe 2psi, or 4 or 6, isnt nearly as much as you suppose.
6 isn't much? Isn't 12.5 the minimum? Almost half flat or am I understanding this wrong?
no, you understand it right --- all those games they play in -70 degree weather would result in a significantly deflated ball
The difference is significantly noticeable at 2 psi, would a game near 0 degrees be more than that?
Yes, thanks for proving my point. Ipso facto, its not significantly noticeable.
How would games be able to go on in single digits when this game that was in the 40's (?) Has caused the biggest uproar ever over 1 or 2 psi? Assuming the balls were inflated in 70 degree temps to back up your theory but somehow the Colts balls (that were brought to field at same time from inside ) must have been filled outside in the cold?

Just want to confirm this scenario we are operating under.

 
A lot of armchair scientist in here all of the sudden....will be interesting to see how these theories hold up.
I'm not sure people claiming tires deflate in winter qualify as 'scientists', but I guess it's all in your perspective
If that's all it takes I'm just thankful that the Packers can finish home games in December without the ball turning to a prune in single digits.
Or just maybe 2psi, or 4 or 6, isnt nearly as much as you suppose.
6 isn't much? Isn't 12.5 the minimum? Almost half flat or am I understanding this wrong?
no, you understand it right --- all those games they play in -70 degree weather would result in a significantly deflated ball
The difference is significantly noticeable at 2 psi, would a game near 0 degrees be more than that?
Yes, thanks for proving my point. Ipso facto, its not significantly noticeable.
How would games be able to go on in single digits when this game that was in the 40's (?) Has caused the biggest uproar ever over 1 or 2 psi? Assuming the balls were inflated in 70 degree temps to back up your theory but somehow the Colts balls (that were brought to field at same time from inside ) must have been filled outside in the cold?Just want to confirm this scenario we are operating under.
Reexamine your premises. They are all flawed.

The only reason ball pressure became any issue is because the Colts had this theory the Pats balls were illegal... weeks before the game.

Ie- they would have challenged a bowling ball if that was the first ball they got their hands on.

 
A lot of armchair scientist in here all of the sudden....will be interesting to see how these theories hold up.
I'm not sure people claiming tires deflate in winter qualify as 'scientists', but I guess it's all in your perspective
If that's all it takes I'm just thankful that the Packers can finish home games in December without the ball turning to a prune in single digits.
Or just maybe 2psi, or 4 or 6, isnt nearly as much as you suppose.
6 isn't much? Isn't 12.5 the minimum? Almost half flat or am I understanding this wrong?
no, you understand it right --- all those games they play in -70 degree weather would result in a significantly deflated ball
The difference is significantly noticeable at 2 psi, would a game near 0 degrees be more than that?
Yes, thanks for proving my point. Ipso facto, its not significantly noticeable.
How would games be able to go on in single digits when this game that was in the 40's (?) Has caused the biggest uproar ever over 1 or 2 psi? Assuming the balls were inflated in 70 degree temps to back up your theory but somehow the Colts balls (that were brought to field at same time from inside ) must have been filled outside in the cold?

Just want to confirm this scenario we are operating under.
I'll refer you back to the movie idiocracy if you want to know the scenario we're working under

 
A lot of armchair scientist in here all of the sudden....will be interesting to see how these theories hold up.
I'm not sure people claiming tires deflate in winter qualify as 'scientists', but I guess it's all in your perspective
If that's all it takes I'm just thankful that the Packers can finish home games in December without the ball turning to a prune in single digits.
Or just maybe 2psi, or 4 or 6, isnt nearly as much as you suppose.
6 isn't much? Isn't 12.5 the minimum? Almost half flat or am I understanding this wrong?
no, you understand it right --- all those games they play in -70 degree weather would result in a significantly deflated ball
The difference is significantly noticeable at 2 psi, would a game near 0 degrees be more than that?
Yes, thanks for proving my point. Ipso facto, its not significantly noticeable.
How would games be able to go on in single digits when this game that was in the 40's (?) Has caused the biggest uproar ever over 1 or 2 psi? Assuming the balls were inflated in 70 degree temps to back up your theory but somehow the Colts balls (that were brought to field at same time from inside ) must have been filled outside in the cold?Just want to confirm this scenario we are operating under.
Reexamine your premises. They are all flawed.

The only reason ball pressure became any issue is because the Colts had this theory the Pats balls were illegal... weeks before the game.

Ie- they would have challenged a bowling ball if that was the first ball they got their hands on.
So your thinking since the Colts requested it that it's something that was never tested before(in game) and for that game their balls were not checked since Pats didn't request it?

 
So your thinking since the Colts requested it that it's something that was never tested before(in game) and for that game their balls were not checked since Pats didn't request it?
I dont think they check very often pregame. Im positive they never check them during game unless they are challenged.

 
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So your thinking since the Colts requested it that it's something that was never tested before(in game) and for that game their balls were not checked since Pats didn't request it?
I dont think they check very often pregame. Im positive they never check them during game unless they are challenged.
Fair point, I could see that.

With these projected PSI changes though it just seems like something players would mention even as significant the change would be projected to extreme temps.

Not sure I buy that aspect but I can see the rule as something loosely monitored due to teams not aggressively inspecting others to date. One of those rules we won't really know how on top of it the NFL was until investigation comes out.

 

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